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darin
03-16-2009, 04:46 PM
1988, Iraq: Iraqi forces attack Halabja residents with chemical weapons
1985, Lebanon: US journalist Terry Anderson kidnapped
1984, Lebanon: US official William Buckley seized, later killed by Hizballah

edit: Most Recent Update here: http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=357592&postcount=24

DannyR
03-16-2009, 10:18 PM
1988, Iraq: Iraqi forces attack Halabja residents with chemical weaponsI wouldn't classify that as terrorism. The Kurdish people in question were allied with Iran, in rebellion against Saddam. It was a full blown act of war, not an act of terrorism.

Use of WMD is generally accepted in cases of national self preservation, thus the reason we still keep our own arsenals. We used WMDs in WWI and II, and for Iraq the circumstances were not much different as far as protecting their nation.

Its was a policy we even supported at the time. Anything to punish Iran. If Iraq was a terrorist then, then we are guilty by association.

emmett
03-17-2009, 12:08 AM
I wouldn't classify that as terrorism. The Kurdish people in question were allied with Iran, in rebellion against Saddam. It was a full blown act of war, not an act of terrorism.

Use of WMD is generally accepted in cases of national self preservation, thus the reason we still keep our own arsenals. We used WMDs in WWI and II, and for Iraq the circumstances were not much different as far as protecting their nation.

Its was a policy we even supported at the time. Anything to punish Iran. If Iraq was a terrorist then, then we are guilty by association.


Ah..Danny! Yoo-Hoo...Danny! YO DANNY!!!!

What about the refugees who were walking down the side of the road carrying their belongings who were gased with mustard?

I'm all ears!

DannyR
03-17-2009, 12:48 AM
What about all the innocent people we firebombed during WW2? Innocent people die during wars.

Not saying it wasn't horrible. It just wasn't terrorism.

darin
03-17-2009, 06:50 AM
I wouldn't classify that as terrorism. The Kurdish people in question were allied with Iran, in rebellion against Saddam. It was a full blown act of war, not an act of terrorism.

Use of WMD is generally accepted in cases of national self preservation, thus the reason we still keep our own arsenals. We used WMDs in WWI and II, and for Iraq the circumstances were not much different as far as protecting their nation.

Its was a policy we even supported at the time. Anything to punish Iran. If Iraq was a terrorist then, then we are guilty by association.


you don't have to classify it as anything. You aren't in a position where your classifications matter to the world, our government, or it's agencies.

DannyR
03-17-2009, 08:58 AM
you don't have to classify it as anything. You aren't in a position where your classifications matter to the world, our government, or it's agencies.Neither are your own for that matter. This is a discussion board. You posted the topic. You afraid to discuss it?

But if we want to discuss how the world classified it... the only nation that really matters in my opinion was just fine with the act. Hell, we provided the weapons Saddam used to bomb them and then sent a representative to shake the man's hand afterwards.

Yurt
03-17-2009, 09:56 AM
Neither are your own for that matter. This is a discussion board. You posted the topic. You afraid to discuss it?

But if we want to discuss how the world classified it... the only nation that really matters in my opinion was just fine with the act. Hell, we provided the weapons Saddam used to bomb them and then sent a representative to shake the man's hand afterwards.

that is not true

DannyR
03-17-2009, 10:54 AM
that is not true

Yeah, right.

Proof we were selling WMDs to Iraq throughout the Iran-Iraq war:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0908-08.htm


The Senate committee's reports on 'US Chemical and Biological Warfare-Related Dual-Use Exports to Iraq', undertaken in 1992 in the wake of the Gulf war, give the date and destination of all US exports. The reports show, for example, that on May 2, 1986, two batches of bacillus anthracis -- the micro-organism that causes anthrax -- were shipped to the Iraqi Ministry of Higher Education, along with two batches of the bacterium clostridium botulinum, the agent that causes deadly botulism poisoning.

One batch each of salmonella and E coli were shipped to the Iraqi State Company for Drug Industries on August 31, 1987. Other shipments went from the US to the Iraq Atomic Energy Commission on July 11, 1988; the Department of Biology at the University of Basrah in November 1989; the Department of Microbiology at Baghdad University in June 1985; the Ministry of Health in April 1985 and Officers' City, a military complex in Baghdad, in March and April 1986.

The shipments to Iraq went on even after Saddam Hussein ordered the gassing of the Kurdish town of Halabja, in which at least 5000 men, women and children died. The atrocity, which shocked the world, took place in March 1988, but a month later the components and materials of weapons of mass destruction were continuing to arrive in Baghdad from the US.
This assistance, according to the report, included 'chemical warfare-agent precursors, chemical warfare-agent production facility plans and technical drawings, chemical warfare filling equipment, biological warfare-related materials, missile fabrication equipment and missile system guidance equipment'.


Iraq was using chemical weapons throughout the Iran-Iraq war, beginning in November 1980.
The UN report concluded that "Iraqi forces have used chemical warfare against Iranian forces"; the weapons used included both mustard gas and nerve gas. The report further stated that "the use of chemical weapons appear[ed] to be more extensive [in 1981] than in 1984." Iraq attempted to deny using chemicals, but the evidence, in the form of many badly burned casualties flown to European hospitals for treatment, was overwhelming.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/iran-iraq.htm

Rumsfeld shakes Saddam's hand - December 20, 1983:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/handshake300.jpg

So what part isn't true?

-Cp
03-17-2009, 12:00 PM
Yeah, right.

Proof we were selling WMDs to Iraq throughout the Iran-Iraq war:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0908-08.htm




Iraq was using chemical weapons throughout the Iran-Iraq war, beginning in November 1980.

Rumsfeld shakes Saddam's hand - December 20, 1983:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/handshake300.jpg

So what part isn't true?

Thank you so much for PROVING to LIBS everywhere that we KNEW Saddam had WMD's - we FREAKIN SOLD Them to him! Now the question does remain, where'd they go? I believe he sent them to Syria before we went in..

Yurt
03-17-2009, 12:20 PM
Yeah, right.

Proof we were selling WMDs to Iraq throughout the Iran-Iraq war:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0908-08.htm




Iraq was using chemical weapons throughout the Iran-Iraq war, beginning in November 1980.

Rumsfeld shakes Saddam's hand - December 20, 1983:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/handshake300.jpg

So what part isn't true?

you were talking about an event in 1988 and you said afterwards we sent someone to shake his hand....now you give me a handshake in 1983 :poke:

gee, i wonder which part is not true

DannyR
03-17-2009, 02:49 PM
you were talking about an event in 1988 and you said afterwards we sent someone to shake his hand....now you give me a handshake in 19831988 was one one event out of HUNDREDS! He started using chemical weapons back in 1981!

The weapons didn't just magically appear in 1988.

Rumsfeld was shaking Saddam's hand after 2 years of using chemical weapons on people!

But sure, you don't like the Rumsfeld handshake, how about the Glaspie one? July 25, 1990.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f0/Glaspie_hussein.jpg

She btw is the US ambassador to Iraq. That meeting too was one of friendship, where we told Saddam pretty much don't worry about Kuwait... its not an American issue. :laugh2:


Thank you so much for PROVING to LIBS everywhere that we KNEW Saddam had WMD's - we FREAKIN SOLD Them to him! Now the question does remain, where'd they go? I believe he sent them to Syria before we went in.Are you serious? Hate to break it to you. The question was NEVER that Saddam once had weapons. It was that he was continuing to build them AFTER THE GULF WAR.

And we pretty much have always known where the one's we helped him make for the Iran-Iraq war were and recovered them.

Yurt
03-17-2009, 03:03 PM
1988 was one one event out of HUNDREDS! He started using chemical weapons back in 1981!

The weapons didn't just magically appear in 1988.

Rumsfeld was shaking Saddam's hand after 2 years of using chemical weapons on people!

But sure, you don't like the Rumsfeld handshake, how about the Glaspie one? July 25, 1990.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f0/Glaspie_hussein.jpg

She btw is the US ambassador to Iraq. That meeting too was one of friendship, where we told Saddam pretty much don't worry about Kuwait... its not an American issue. :laugh2:

Are you serious? Hate to break it to you. The question was NEVER that Saddam once had weapons. It was that he was continuing to build them AFTER THE GULF WAR.

And we pretty much have always known where the one's we helped him make for the Iran-Iraq war were and recovered them.

you can't weasel your way out of this one danny. but i am sure you will whine and mention something about word games....

post #2...you specifically quote ONE incident...the 1988 incident. others responded to you regarding that ONE incident. dmp's post #5 was in direct response to your post #2 which was about the 1988 incident. you then replied directly with post #6 and did not change the topic from the 1988 incident that you and dmp were talking about. that is what i referred to as you being wrong....you then bring up other incidences that were earlier than 1988 that you never mentioned and did not in fact talk about until i called you on it.

(yawn)

DannyR
03-17-2009, 03:06 PM
you can't weasel your way out of this one danny.Um, who's weaseling? You asked for a picture, I gave you TWO now. :laugh2:

Sure, lets limit our point of view to just 1988. Are you going to deny we sold them materials before 1988? Are you going to deny the 2nd picture's handshake is AFTER the specific incident originally posted?

You said I was wrong before I posted the Rumsfeld picture. I wasn't.

Seems to me its you who's now weaseling. How about you actually accept you were wrong for once.

Yurt
03-17-2009, 03:21 PM
Um, who's weaseling? You asked for a picture, I gave you TWO now. :laugh2:

Sure, lets limit our point of view to just 1988. Are you going to deny we sold them materials before 1988? Are you going to deny the 2nd picture's handshake is AFTER the specific incident originally posted?

You said I was wrong before I posted the Rumsfeld picture. I wasn't.

Seems to me its you who's now weaseling. How about you actually accept you were wrong for once.

good lord dude....

your first response was to give me a picture from 1983. your SECOND response was from 1990 and had NOTHING at all to do with the kurd attack. you're such a weasel dude, you actually crack me up. i mean, first you provide me with a 1983 picture, then you realize you are wrong on your dates and provide me with a 1990 picture and proclaim you are right. you obviously have no clue what you are talking about.

are you actually going to proclaim that the handshake had anything at all to do with the kurd attack? because that is your claim.


Hell, we provided the weapons Saddam used to bomb them and then sent a representative to shake the man's hand afterwards.

tell you what, since you seem to not realize things you say, why don't you explain to us what exactly you meant by the above comment. it sure looks like you are saying...we provided him with the weapons to bomb then and then sent a rep to shake the man's hand afterwards....as if the rep was congratulationg him.

and as to accepting i am wrong, i have done so numerous times. it is not my fault you are lying about that.

DannyR
03-17-2009, 03:51 PM
your SECOND response was from 1990 and had NOTHING at all to do with the kurd attackAh, so thats your tact now? :laugh2: Oh well, I proved my point. We supplied them bombs and shook their hand afterwards just like I said.

Who cares what they talked about. The point of the picture is that we were on good relations with Iraq!

And your comment proves my point. Glaspie wasn't sent there to complain and bitch about the WMDs. She was there to tell Saddam everything was just fine. Perhaps if she HAD complained about WMDs you might have a point, but she didn't. It was all good.

We didn't classify them as a terrorist state. We didn't care a bit about them using WMD's on the Kurds, because we were the one's who supplied the weapons.

Yurt
03-17-2009, 03:55 PM
only a moron would claim victory after providing a 1983 picture to prove a point about a 1988 incident.

and talk about word games....you absolutely played word games with my response. but you're right danny, you're always right....

sorry emmett for calling him a moron, but saying so to danny is not an insult, it is simply a factual statement. i apologize to emmett for being tacky.

:salute:

darin
03-17-2009, 04:50 PM
Today in Terrorism History:

1992, Argentina: Car bomb destroys Israeli Embassy, killing 28 and wounding 220; Lebanese Hizballah claims responsibility

bullypulpit
03-17-2009, 06:35 PM
that is not true

<center><img src=http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/handshake300.jpg></center>

<center><blockquote>Shaking Hands: Iraqi President Saddam Hussein greets Donald Rumsfeld, then special envoy of President Ronald Reagan, in Baghdad on December 20, 1983.</blockquote></center>

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it is true...

<blockquote>A 1994 US Senate report revealed that US companies were licenced by the commerce department to export a "witch's brew" of biological and chemical materials, including bacillus anthracis (which causes anthrax) and clostridium botulinum (the source of botulism). The American Type Culture Collection made 70 shipments of the anthrax bug and other pathogenic agents.

The report also noted that US exports to Iraq included the precursors to chemical warfare agents, plans for chemical and biological warfare facilities and chemical warhead filling equipment. US firms supplied advanced and specialised computers, lasers, testing and analysing equipment. Among the better-known companies were Hewlett Packard, Unisys, Data General and Honeywell. - <a href=http://www.counterpunch.org/dixon06172004.html>Norm Dixon</a></blockquote>

Yurt
03-17-2009, 06:47 PM
so the US sent a rep over to shake saddam's hand AFTER he gassed the kurds bully?

that is the statement and that is what we are talking about....and you believe that the US sent a rep over to give congrats to saddam for the gassing...isn't that right bully

DannyR
03-17-2009, 07:00 PM
so the US sent a rep over to shake saddam's hand AFTER he gassed the kurds bully? yes, already proven above.


and you believe that the US sent a rep over to give congrats to saddam for the gassing...isn't that right bullyStrawman argument. Nobody made the claim we congratulated them for the gassing. We did however fail to condemn it, and sought good relations with Iraq despite it, and provided the materials to make the weapons in the first place.

THAT is the point you keep trying to avoid.

Yurt
03-17-2009, 07:11 PM
yes, already proven above.

Strawman argument. Nobody made the claim we congratulated them for the gassing. We did however fail to condemn it, and sought good relations with Iraq despite it, and provided the materials to make the weapons in the first place.

THAT is the point you keep trying to avoid.

pathetic

i could debate you on your on strawman argument alone, but, unnecessary as you already prove yourself wrong with your first sentence....

:lame2:

don't be so cocky danny. you are not always right. it is a folly to think you are. maybe you will learn that lesson, maybe you won't. not my problem or worry.

darin
03-18-2009, 09:16 PM
On 18 March 2007, during a 30-minute period between 1:00 PM and 2:00 PM, in multiple districts of Kirkuk, At Ta'mim, Iraq, assailants detonated two or three vehicle-borne improvised explosive devices (VBIEDs) and two or three improvised explosive devices (IEDs), killing four police officers and between eight and 14 civilians, wounding between 32 and 50 civilians, destroying a communications tower, and damaging at least 10 vehicles and 20 shops. No group claimed responsibility.

darin
03-19-2009, 04:06 PM
2007, Afghanistan: Suicide bomber attacks US Embassy convoy, wounding two officials and one Afghan child; Taliban claims responsibility
2001, Venezuela: ELN guerrilla Jose Ballestas arrested for Avianca hijacking

darin
03-20-2009, 06:34 AM
2002, Israel: Suicide bomb detonates on bus, killing seven and injuring 30; Islamic Jihad responsible
1995, Japan: Sarin attack kills 12 and sickens 5,000; Aum Shinrikyo responsible

Abbey Marie
03-20-2009, 09:42 AM
Hey D, do you have any Viking historical dates? They were some major terrorists. :)

darin
03-21-2009, 08:40 AM
I don't abbey...sorry :(


2002, Israel: Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade suicide bomber detonates bomb in crowd of shoppers in Jerusalem; three killed, 86 injured
Saturday





Iran/Afghanistan: Nowruz (Persian New Year)