How do you want to die?

[avatar4321]

I think the title pretty much sums up the thread. What would you choose?

[Abbey Marie]

I'd really, really, really prefer to be raptured. If not, then a heart attack in my sleep when I'm 95 will do.

[Jeff]

Laying next to me beautiful wife sleeping and just not wake up.

[PostmodernProphet]

surprise me......

[manu1959]

before my kids do.....

[PostmodernProphet]

If not, then a heart attack in my sleep when I'm 95 will do.

my dad says the worst thing about being 94 is realizing that all those old people around you weren't even born yet when you turned 21......

[Mr. P]

At home in my own bed while asleep...even though that means a mandatory autopsy, which I hate the thought of.

[-Cp]

I'd really, really, really prefer to be raptured. If not, then a heart attack in my sleep when I'm 95 will do.

What do you mean by "raptured"?

[Little-Acorn]

I want to be fried to a cinder when the sun expands and explodes in a supernova... something that's supposed to happen in a few million years.

And not till then.

[crin63]

Mostly I just don't want to be a burden on anyone else and I don't want to drown or suffocate. I would also like to see my kids come to Christ first.

[PostmodernProphet]

What do you mean by "raptured"?

I expect she means she hopes Christ comes back before she dies.....

[5stringJeff]

I'd really, really, really prefer to be raptured. If not, then a heart attack in my sleep when I'm 95 will do.

Ditto... except without the heart attack. Just passing peacefully in my sleep will be fine, thanks.

[-Cp]

I expect she means she hopes Christ comes back before she dies.....

Sounds nice, but not biblical...

[crin63]

Sounds nice, but not biblical...

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

[-Cp]

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

(EDIT by MOD: LINK: http://www.newfoundationspubl.org/rapture1.htm)

GROUP ONE: THOSE ASLEEP IN JESUS

Before we can understand what God is saying, we must first determine who He is speaking about. Let's look at verses 13 & 14.

"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep...."

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him." Who is being spoken of? Is it those who are alive at the time Paul is writing? NO! It is those who are asleep in Jesus, those saints who have gone on before. When Jesus spoke of those who had departed this life, He simply stated they were asleep.

"For this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep." *** I Thessalonians 4:15

GROUP TWO: THOSE WHO ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN

In verse 15, Paul is still speaking of those who are asleep. But he speaks of a second group; those who are "alive and remain".

Then Paul reveals a third group of saints,

"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first" *** I Thessalonians 4:16

GROUP THREE: THE DEAD IN CHRIST

As we examine verse 16, it becomes clear that those who are dead in Christ are not the same group as those who are asleep in Jesus. The "dead in Christ" shall arise when the Lord shall descend from heaven with the shout of the voice of the archangel and the trump of God. All these become clues to unlock the truths of the time frame Paul is speaking of.

This only leaves two scriptures, verses 17 and 18, to reveal what is going to happen and when it is going to happen.

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words." *** I Thessalonians 4:17-18

As we examine these scriptures, it should become clear that Paul was not speaking of some secret escape plan of God for His saints. He is revealing three groups of people and their place in God when Jesus returns. As we examine these Scriptures, it should be plain there is no mention of a time frame; pre, mid or post tribulation. The tribulation was not mentioned at all. These were added by man to prove the false doctrine of rapture.

The events spoken of in *** I Thessalonians 4:13-18 will take place at the time of the blowing of the trumpet and the return of the Lord. Are these events recorded elsewhere in the Word? Jesus spoke of this event when speaking to His disciples of the coming tribulation,

"And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." *** Matthew 24:31

This is the same happening spoken of in *** I Thessalonians 4:16. God will gather His saints at the blowing of the trumpet from the four winds. The four winds in the Bible always indicate the earth. There are four directions on the earth: north, south, east and west. God is going to send His angels with a great sound of the trumpet and gather His people on the earth from the four winds; from every corner of the earth. These are those who are "alive and remain".

Then He says, "From one end of heaven to the other." These are those who are asleep in Jesus. This will happen at the blowing of the trumpet when He will gather all His people together from all over the earth and all the departed souls in the spiritual realm. Then the question arises, "Did Jesus reveal the time this would take place?" He truly did in *** Matthew 24:29-30,

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." *** Matthew 24:29-30

Jesus' second appearing will be immediately after the tribulation of those days. So, if Paul was speaking of a rapture in *** I Thessalonians 4, the saints would still go through the Great Tribulation.

The next scripture used by the rapture teachers which is supposed to prove the rapture is Revelation 4:1.

"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

The rapture teaching proclaims that *** Revelation 2 & 3 speak of the church and in *** Revelation 4:1, a door is opened in heaven and the church is taken off the earth.

It was John who was taken up in the Spirit to be in the presence of God. Nothing would indicate that John represented the whole church. When we come to the knowledge of the truth, Jesus is not teaching John the rapture. In fact, He was not talking about the church at all in *** Revelation 4:1, but rather fulfilling what He spoke to John in *** Revelation 1:19.

"Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter." *** Revelation 1:19

John was told to,

# 1 Write the things he had seen
# 2 Write the things which are
# 3 Write the things which shall be hereafter

First, John was to write the things he had seen, or that had been shown to him in Chapter One. Then he was to write the things which are --- in Chapters two and three. Jesus revealed to John the things which were in the church at the time John was given this Revelation. These same things are still in the church today. These are the things "which are".

Then John was to write the things which shall be hereafter. When we come to Chapter 4, Jesus stated,

"...I will shew thee things which must be hereafter." *** Revelation 4:1

What was revealed unto John was the things that were going to happen hereafter and certainly not the church being taken off the earth. *** Revelation 4:1 mentions nothing about the wrath, nor indicates a rapture. Man has twisted the scriptures to prove his false doctrine.

The next scripture that the rapture teachers use is *** II Thessalonians 2:7,

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only He who now letteth will let, until He be taken out of the way."

The rapture teachers teach that the "one who letteth" is the Holy Spirit and that, when Jesus comes in the rapture, He is going to take the Holy Spirit with Him from off the earth. Is that what the Bible teaches?

"And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever." *** John 14:16

The same John that was given the revelation of Jesus on the Isle of Patmos recorded these words of Jesus, that He would send another Comforter, the Holy Spirit of Promise, and that He would abide with us forever. How long is the Holy Spirit going to abide with us? My Bible says, "forever". Yet, some would have us believe that forever ends at the time of the rapture.

The next scripture which is supposed to prove a rapture is *** Daniel 12:1,

"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of Thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time Thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."

Daniel reveals that, at the time of great trouble, God's people will be delivered. This is where the rapture teachers stop. But let us go on.

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." *** Daniel 12:2

If we were to believe the rapture teachers, we would be led to believe that some who are asleep in Jesus will be raised to everlasting shame and contempt. The time frame here is the resurrection; not before the tribulation, not half-way through the tribulation, not at the end.

Some would have us believe there are seven years between verse one and verse two of Daniel 12. They must add this interpretation if they are to believe in the rapture.

The last scripture that is supposed to prove the rapture is *** I Corinthians 15:51-56,

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law." *** I Corinthians 15:51-56

The Bible speaks of a change that is coming upon our mortal bodies. The rapture teachers teach that this change will take place as we zoom out through outer space in the rapture. But the Word is clear that this change takes place at the last trumpet. This is the same trumpet that is spoken of in *** I Thessalonians 4 and *** Matthew 24:31. The last trumpet to sound is the seventh trumpet in the book of Revelation.

"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He hath declared to His servants the prophets." *** Revelation 10:7

When the seventh angel shall begin to sound his trumpet, then the mystery of God will be finished. This is when the hidden things of God will all be revealed. This is the conclusion of time when the seventh angel sounds.

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever." *** Revelation 11:15

Who is our Lord? Peter revealed unto the Jews that this same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, God hath made both Lord and Christ. *** Acts 2:36

The verb "hath made" indicates that this was something that Jesus "was not" in the days of His flesh, but that He "had become" after His death. When Jesus walked the earth, He was Jesus, the Christ (Jesus, the anointed); after His death He became Christ Jesus (The Anointing). The anointed became The Anointing and Lord of all.

Jesus is our Lord and we are His Christ. When the seventh trumpet sounds, the kingdoms of this world will have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ. We are His anointed in the earth who will rule and reign for 1000 years with Christ. We will be joint heirs with Christ in His kingdom. This is when we receive the earth as our inheritance.

*** Revelation 20 foretells this 1000 year reign with Christ. This is the millennial reign, or the Kingdom Age. There is absolutely no place for a rapture when the Kingdom begins. The wrath will have already been poured out. Our bodies will have been changed.

So, in order for the rapture teachers to use *** I Corinthians 15 to prove their rapture theory, they must ignore practically the whole teaching of the Bible regarding the end times.

[April15]

I think I'll pass on this dieing stuff. Being declared dead twice already it is getting a bit old!

[5stringJeff]

(EDIT by MOD: LINK: http://www.newfoundationspubl.org/rapture1.htm)

GROUP ONE: THOSE ASLEEP IN JESUS

GROUP TWO: THOSE WHO ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN

GROUP THREE: THE DEAD IN CHRIST

The author of this web page misinterprets Scripture. The "dead in Christ" and "those asleep in Jesus" are obviously the same group - as the author himself says, the term "sleep" was used to signify death, in that those who die are, in a sense, asleep, since they will rise again (i.e. be resurrected). And while there is room for interpretation on when exactly the Rapture will occur with respect to the rest of the End Times, the fact that there will be a Rapture is well-established in Scripture.

[Jagger]

I going to live forever. I'm the guy who whacked Super Man.

[PostmodernProphet]

Sounds nice, but not biblical...

Christ coming back before we die isn't biblical?.......

[Yurt]

I going to live forever. I'm the guy who whacked Super Man.

i'm an immortal, there can be only one

die.....quick, in my sleep, not in an effing hospital bed after brain cancer and you can't communicate for weeks, yet you are conscious! death sucks, i don't care, it sucks.

[Abbey Marie]

The author of this web page misinterprets Scripture. The "dead in Christ" and "those asleep in Jesus" are obviously the same group - as the author himself says, the term "sleep" was used to signify death, in that those who die are, in a sense, asleep, since they will rise again (i.e. be resurrected). And while there is room for interpretation on when exactly the Rapture will occur with respect to the rest of the End Times, the fact that there will be a Rapture is well-established in Scripture.

Yes, what he said... :salute:

[DragonStryk72]

I want to die at 85 by the hands of the jealous husband of a supermodel ;).

[hjmick]

I want to be hit by a bus so people will remember "that guy who got hit by a bus."