No Charges Against CIA Officials for Waterboarding

[red states rule]

OK Obama supporters - let the spin begin

Damn, first the wiretap program and now this. In less then a week, I agree with Obama on 2 issues



Seeking to move beyond what he calls a "a dark and painful chapter in our history," President Barack Obama said Thursday that CIA officials who used harsh interrogation tactics during the Bush administration will not be prosecuted.

The government released four memos in which Bush-era lawyers approved in often graphic detail tough interrogation methods used against 28 terror suspects. The rough tactics range from waterboarding — simulated drowning — to keeping suspects naked and withholding solid food.Even as they exposed new details of the interrogation program, Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder, offered the first definitive assurance that those CIA officials are in the clear, as long as their actions were in line with the legal advice at the time.
Obama said the nation must protect the identity of CIA contractors and employees "as vigilantly as they protect our security."

"We have been through a dark and painful chapter in our history," the president said. "But at a time of great challenges and disturbing disunity, nothing will be gained by spending our time and energy laying blame for the past."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=7354441

[PostmodernProphet]

more likely, once he got security access to the facts he realized there was no case against them......but doesn't dare admit that to the left.....

[moderate democrat]

It seems as if Obama is legitimizing the Nuremburg defense by saying that those CIA operatives who tortured prisoners were only following orders. One hopes that, before he leaves office, he finds a way to have his justice department prosecute those administration officials who gave those orders.

[red states rule]

It seems as if Obama is legitimizing the Nuremburg defense by saying that those CIA operatives who tortured prisoners were only following orders. One hopes that, before he leaves office, he finds a way to have his justice department prosecute those administration officials who gave those orders.

So typical of the left

Release terrorists form Gitom

Amnesity for illeagls

Yet toss their fellow Americans in jail

[moderate democrat]

So typical of the left

Release terrorists form Gitom

Amnesity for illeagls

Yet toss their fellow Americans in jail

if laws were broken, the lawbreakers should be prosecuted.

[red states rule]

if laws were broken, the lawbreakers should be prosecuted.

What laws were broken? While you libs hold up a law ook to fight terrorists, they shoot you or toss a bomb in your direction

[PostmodernProphet]

if laws were broken, the lawbreakers should be prosecuted.

and the reverse axiom.......there will be no prosecution, since no laws were broken......

[moderate democrat]

What laws were broken? While you libs hold up a law ook to fight terrorists, they shoot you or toss a bomb in your direction


torture is against international law and in violation of treaties that we have signed which means that torture is a violation of the supreme law of the land. the people who authorized torture broke the law, imho, and should be prosecuted.

[Nukeman]

torture is against international law and in violation of treaties that we have signed which means that torture is a violation of the supreme law of the land. the people who authorized torture broke the law, imho, and should be prosecuted.
Well than its a good thing your opinion means about as much as ohhh......."a warm bucket of spit". Right!!!!!!!!??????????

YOU and others like YOU do not have full information, just like the rest of us, so until you actually have full records of what was done and how many lives were saved by these tactics I suggest you just keep YOUR opinions to yourself....... IMHO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[moderate democrat]

Well than its a good thing your opinion means about as much as ohhh......."a warm bucket of spit". Right!!!!!!!!??????????

YOU and others like YOU do not have full information, just like the rest of us, so until you actually have full records of what was done and how many lives were saved by these tactics I suggest you just keep YOUR opinions to yourself....... IMHO!!!!!!!!!!!!!


how many lives were saved by breaking the law does not magically make the laws not broken.

I realize that Obama may very well chose to NOT prosecute those who broke those laws by ordering torture... it is clear that he has already chosen to NOT prosecute those who followed those orders. It will be a mistake if he does so, imho.

oh, and in the quote...it is the spit that is warm, not the bucket. It is a quote from a famous American politician.... I wonder if you can figure out who it was!;)

[Mr. P]

torture is against international law and in violation of treaties that we have signed which means that torture is a violation of the supreme law of the land. the people who authorized torture broke the law, imho, and should be prosecuted.

Your IDOL doesn't see it that way. You've been dupped!

This is a move to CYA ,pre-payment, for his errors when he leaves office so he doesn't get nailed to the cross.

[PostmodernProphet]

I realize that Obama may very well chose to NOT prosecute those who broke those laws by ordering torture... it is clear that he has already chosen to NOT prosecute those who followed those orders. It will be a mistake if he does so, imho.



wouldn't that be in imuo......uninformed opinion?.....lest you think harshly of your favorite president, isn't it more logical that upon seeing all the facts it became obvious no laws were broken?......he does have the advantage over you, you realize......he doesn't have to operate on assumptions anymore now that he has maximum security clearance.....

[moderate democrat]

wouldn't that be in imuo......uninformed opinion?.....lest you think harshly of your favorite president, isn't it more logical that upon seeing all the facts it became obvious no laws were broken?......he does have the advantage over you, you realize......he doesn't have to operate on assumptions anymore now that he has maximum security clearance.....

he is taking politics into consideration...I am not. the UN treaty on torture is quite explicit. we signed it. we broke it.

[glockmail]

more likely, once he got security access to the facts he realized there was no case against them......but doesn't dare admit that to the left.....
That's a very likely scenario.

[Mr. P]

he is taking politics into consideration...I am not. the UN treaty on torture is quite explicit. we signed it. we broke it.

Not really.


The U.N. Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment entered into force (2) on June 26, 1987. The convention, or treaty, aims to prevent torture (3) around the world. It advises "states," or nations in this case, to take effective measures to prevent torture within their borders and forbids states from returning suspects to their home countries if there is reason to believe they will be tortured. The convention was ratified (4) by Canada on June 24, 1987, and by the U.S. on Oct. 21, 1994. As of Oct. 2, 2007, 146 nations had ratified the convention.

Optional Protocol to the Convention

OPCAT entered into force on June 22, 2006. On Oct. 11, 2007, 60 states had signed (5) the protocol and 34 had ratified it. Neither Canada nor the U.S. has signed OPCAT. The protocol recognized that, in many nations, torture occurs in places of detention, including prisons, remand centers and police stations. In some cases, those in charge of or working with detainees are not aware that their actions constitute torture and often detainees are not aware of their right to be free from torture.

No law broken. Just more liberal wishful thinkin.

[hjmick]

if laws were broken, the lawbreakers should be prosecuted.

So those people who come into this country illegally, breaking the immigration laws of this country, should be prosecuted? Is this what you are saying? They are lawbreakers, after all.



As for the quote and who said it...

It was John Nance Garner. Texas politician and our 32nd Vice President. The quote, however, is wrong. In referring to the vice presidency, he said the office was "not worth a bucket of warm piss." The quote has been bastardized.

[PostmodernProphet]

he is taking politics into consideration...I am not.

or, he isn't and you are.....I don't like either of you, but I am still prepared to believe Obama is smarter than you are.....

[moderate democrat]

or, he isn't and you are.....I don't like either of you, but I am still prepared to believe Obama is smarter than you are.....


and both of us are smarter than YOU are... ;)

[Yurt]

So those people who come into this country illegally, breaking the immigration laws of this country, should be prosecuted? Is this what you are saying? They are lawbreakers, after all.



As for the quote and who said it...

It was John Nance Garner. Texas politician and our 32nd Vice President. The quote, however, is wrong. In referring to the vice presidency, he said the office was "not worth a bucket of warm piss." The quote has been bastardized.

nice

[PostmodernProphet]

and both of us are smarter than YOU are... ;)
lol.....

[Kathianne]

It seems as if Obama is legitimizing the Nuremburg defense by saying that those CIA operatives who tortured prisoners were only following orders. One hopes that, before he leaves office, he finds a way to have his justice department prosecute those administration officials who gave those orders.

Right, by tainting the jury pool. :rolleyes: Any thinking person knows once they released those documents, no trials will be forthcoming. Give it up.

[moderate democrat]

Right, by tainting the jury pool. :rolleyes: Any thinking person knows once they released those documents, no trials will be forthcoming. Give it up.

the evidence of criminal activity is either there, or it isn't. If it is, the administration can decide to either indict the perpetrators or not... they seem to have decided that those who carried out the orders to torture will not be indicted. They have not, publicly, decided that those who gave those orders are similarly immune. Time will tell. You, from your partisan perspective, can hope that those republican appointees guilty of breaking our laws will avoid prosecution. I, from my perspective, can hope otherwise. But you need to know that, prosecuted or otherwise, if people did, in fact, break the law by ordering torture, they deserve punishment whether or not they ever receive it.

[Kathianne]

the evidence of criminal activity is either there, or it isn't. If it is, the administration can decide to either indict the perpetrators or not... they seem to have decided that those who carried out the orders to torture will not be indicted. They have not, publicly, decided that those who gave those orders are similarly immune. Time will tell. You, from your partisan perspective, can hope that those republican appointees guilty of breaking our laws will avoid prosecution. I, from my perspective, can hope otherwise. But you need to know that, prosecuted or otherwise, if people did, in fact, break the law by ordering torture, they deserve punishment whether or not they ever receive it.

Tool. You know when reading it doesn't come up to torture. Yet, you are happy to declare, "Guilty" whether of not charges are brought, much less prosecuted successfully, which now would be impossible.

[moderate democrat]

Tool. You know when reading it doesn't come up to torture. Yet, you are happy to declare, "Guilty" whether of not charges are brought, much less prosecuted successfully, which now would be impossible.

I declare no one guilty of anything

[hjmick]

nice

One of the benefits of having gone to school in Texas for a few years.

[Kathianne]

I declare no one guilty of anything

Closest one is going to get to an admission from you. Because you are a TOOL.

[moderate democrat]

Closest one is going to get to an admission from you. Because you are a TOOL.


and you are an insulting petty annoyance.

[theHawk]

if laws were broken, the lawbreakers should be prosecuted.

Except of course illegal immigrants. Oh and politicians with a (d) at the end of their name.

[n0spam4me]

This "fignt" between the Donkey and the Elephant is about as real as a contest between Hulk Hogan and Georgous George!

Get REAL people! What we have here is a war between criminal to the bone professional politicians and WE THE PEOPLE!

Obama does NOT work for WE THE PEOPLE
he works for the Military Industrial Complex
or whatever its really called,
a sick and twisted plot to rule the world by anyother name would still stink!

[PostmodernProphet]

I declare no one guilty of anything

then why are you upset when Obama says no one requires prosecution?.......

[moderate democrat]

then why are you upset when Obama says no one requires prosecution?.......

I am not really upset, I just think a court needs to determine guilt in this matter. It seems clear to me that the supreme law of the land was broken.

[sgtdmski]

Once again this all goes back to the argument regarding what is torture.

Is waterboarding torture? Some would argue yes, while others like myself would say no. Waterboarding does not kill, it does not inflict physical pain, what it does it causes a person to break because they have the feeling that they could drown. It is as simple as that. Considering that once upon a time college fraternities used the dunking of a persons head in water as an initiation prank, I find it hard to believe that anyone would ever consider it torture.

Then there are a serious of other techniques that are used, including keeping hoods over a prisoner. Again where is the physical pain, where is the possibility of death. All this does is deprives the individual of the ability to sense the time of day. The same could be said of keeping the lights on, switching them off, and them back on, all this to mentally confuse and challenge an individual.

The same is true with the tricks of the temperature manipulation, keeping a room cold, or keeping a room hot. All it does is mentally confuses a prisoner, resulting in their inability to concentrate and often times it causes them to make mental mistakes in answering questions where an interrogator can find if they are lying or not.

What about loud music? Is this really torture. Why not test it out, the next time your neighbor plays the music too loud next door, call the police and tell them that your neighbor is torturing you because they are playing the music too loud, and then tell me if the 911 dispatcher laughed their ass off or not.

In a perfect world none of these techniques would be required. But therein lies the problem we do not live in a perfect world. We do not videotape the beheading of any of the prisoners, btw did we behead anyone?? I don't think so. I think Daniel Pearl would have loved to have been waterboarded, or forced to listen to loud music, or face extreme temperatures. But are enemies do not interrogate, they kill plain and simple. Daniel Pearl was a newsreporter, the men and women who died in the World Trade Center were civilians.

I am sorry, but the country was pissed after September 11th and wondered why our intelligence failed. Since that time these techniques have been successfully used to make sure they would not fail again, and they have not.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

dmk

[Kathianne]

Well whether for good or ill, the US is now tethered to the Army Field Manual, which is being studied by al queda. http://www.iiss.org/whats-new/iiss-in-the-press/press-coverage-2008/february-2008/cia-admit-waterboarding-al-qaida-suspects/

With the release of the memos, Obama has left only the Manual on the table, along with the list of 'techniques previously used' along with the limitations by lawyers. To think that they aren't emboldened would be underestimating their intelligence. Hopefully they are so in awe of Obama himself, they won't try to harm us again.