PDA

View Full Version : Specter's departure a wake-up call for GOP



Little-Acorn
04-28-2009, 04:34 PM
(My reply to the topic in another forum)

Specter's Departure a Wake Up Call for GOP

It's a wakeup call, all right, but maybe not in the way you think.

Democrats now have the means to ram through any and all programs they ever wanted, with nothing the Republicans can do to stop them. It's useful to look at a little history, to see what the results of this might be.

Last time anything close happened like this, was in 1992. They didn't have 60 Senate seats, but they had a clear majority. And they started putting through things like "Don't ask, don't tell", big spending increases, a so-called "assault weapons ban", hordes of extreme-left judges, and finally the Hillarycare plan to nationalize one-seventh of the nation's economy. The latter didn't pass, but it was close.

And the American people, who had just elected those Democrat majorities, took one look at what the Democrats intended, and kicked them out of every majority in the Federal government at the next election, plus most states.

It helped, of course, that the Republicans put together a program the people actually DID want, promising to bring ten key bills out of the committees the Democrats had bottled them up in, and vote on them on the House floor. (Amazingly, this became one of the rare times when a group of politicians actually kept their promises 100%).

Now, my guess is, the Democrats will forget history and thus doom themselves to repeat it. IMHO they will ram through even more than they already have. Hillary-style nationalized health care will be back, along with various gun bans. Entitlements will be greatly expanded, and tax increases everywhere. Simultaneoulsy, the military will be cut even as tensions worldwide increase.

And the people will quickly get their fill of such socialism, as they have before, and look to replace the Democrats with politicians who are more conservative, and who offer programs they actually want.

But the problem is... right now, the Republicans ain't it. The last group of Republicans in majorities, spent like drunken Democrats (until the Dems came back and out-spent them hugely in 2008-09), increased entitlements, supported open borders and amnesty for illegal aliens over the aliens who obeyed U.S. law, and generally acted like Democrats. Why should people vote for Democrat-lites while they reject real Democrats?

So the wake-up call for Republicans, is that they'd better get back to what the people really want (smaller government, less spending, strong borders with limited immigration, tax cuts, more personal responsibility , strong defense and foreign relations)...so they are in a position to give people what they want for a change, next election day when people turn against the socialistic extremism of the Democrats (as they did last time the Dems got free rein).

And that will take a lot of change... in the right direction this time, not Obama-style "change". Republicans abandoned small govt and spending discipline a decade ago. And if they don't go back to them, people will have no reason to vote for them, even while they vote against the Democrats whose socialism they reject.

Republicans have to become conservative again. And not because people MIGHT notice them next election. But rather, because people will be SCREAMING for an alternative to the big-govt Democrats by then.

And the Republicans had damned well better be sure they are it by then. They certainly aren't now.

Kathianne
04-28-2009, 04:55 PM
I agree. My guess is the Democrats will go totally all out pushing through everything they can think of and there's no doubt Obama has many things he wants through. IF the conservatives can pull together the real issues of concern regarding gov't-not 'moral' issues-there will be a big opportunity in 2-4 years. The concern is whether those concerned with governing will be heard or just those that think the MORAL majority issues are the answer. They're not.

FYI I mostly am in agreement with their positions, but don't think intelligent design, prayer in public schools, sexual orientation, or abortion should be 'party issues', rather candidate positions. The representatives should represent their constituents. That's my 2 cents.

emmett
04-28-2009, 05:20 PM
Reply to post#1


Or..............


More and more people will smarten up and vote for real change. The Libertarian Party.

Little-Acorn
04-28-2009, 05:36 PM
More and more people will smarten up and vote for real change. The Libertarian Party.

What will cause that to happen?

PostmodernProphet
04-28-2009, 05:46 PM
What will cause that to happen?

well, an obvious reason might be the GOP not waking up.....

Little-Acorn
04-28-2009, 06:12 PM
well, an obvious reason might be the GOP not waking up.....

If that were all it took, a Libertarian would have been elected in 2000 or 2004.

Next?

Kathianne
04-28-2009, 06:29 PM
What will cause that to happen?

When they put forward candidates that reflect the ideas and repudiate the radical right/left.

glockmail
04-28-2009, 06:31 PM
Reply to post#1


Or..............


More and more people will smarten up and vote for real change. The Libertarian Party.


well, an obvious reason might be the GOP not waking up.....

We social conservatives may be an embarrassment to y'all, but we're right, and carry a lot of votes, so I guess you'll just have to deal with it. :poke:

Kathianne
04-28-2009, 06:33 PM
We social conservatives may be an embarrassment to y'all, but we're right, and carry a lot of votes, so I guess you'll just have to deal with it. :poke:

Nah, if you are correct, the GOP will continue to lose time and again. That is the way of the Whigs.

glockmail
04-28-2009, 06:36 PM
Reply to post#1


Or..............


More and more people will smarten up and vote for real change. The Libertarian Party.


Nah, if you are correct, the GOP will continue to lose time and again. That is the way of the Whigs. They'll lose because they ignore their base: Social Conservatives. We're then morals of the party, and it can't run without us.

Kathianne
04-28-2009, 06:50 PM
They'll lose because they ignore their base: Social Conservatives. We're then morals of the party, and it can't run without us.

Economic conservatives are their hope, but you may be right, they want to burn.

5stringJeff
05-05-2009, 08:23 PM
Economic conservatives - i.e. laissez-faire capitalists, are much better off in the Libertarian Party, which actually shares their beliefs, than in the GOP, which merely pays lip service to economic freedom.

Kathianne
05-05-2009, 08:51 PM
They'll lose because they ignore their base: Social Conservatives. We're then morals of the party, and it can't run without us.

Social conservatives are not the base, but often towards the extreme right. While I don't think abortion for instance is ok, nor gay marriage, I'm not going to rule out a vote for someone who agrees with smaller government and passing more, much more power to the states.

Core 'conservatives' are for as little government is necessary to keep order and security; as much power to as local of government as possible, where the people can watch and control.

Yurt
05-05-2009, 10:00 PM
Nah, if you are correct, the GOP will continue to lose time and again. That is the way of the Whigs.

if the way of the whigs is social conservatism, how is it bush won?

Yurt
05-05-2009, 10:03 PM
Economic conservatives - i.e. laissez-faire capitalists, are much better off in the Libertarian Party, which actually shares their beliefs, than in the GOP, which merely pays lip service to economic freedom.

what is the libertarian party platform on religion? and what does the libertarian party consider "economic freedom"?

glockmail
05-06-2009, 02:18 PM
if the way of the whigs is social conservatism, how is it bush won? Or Reagan?

Kate you're making the same mistake most pundits make. Without the social conservatives the GOP is up the proverbial creek without a paddle.

emmett
05-06-2009, 03:38 PM
what is the libertarian party platform on religion? and what does the libertarian party consider "economic freedom"?


They have NO platform on religion, you know, the way it is supposed to be. Ah...seperation of church and state. Complete freedom to choose any / no religion if so desired.

If I have to answer the economic freedom part I would have to assume you haven't been paying attention. How about a smidgen to get started...NO BAILOUTS!

Kathianne
05-06-2009, 04:59 PM
Or Reagan?

Kate you're making the same mistake most pundits make. Without the social conservatives the GOP is up the proverbial creek without a paddle.

You are misreading me. I'm not for booting anyone, not social conservatives or those that disagree with them. Rather all should vote with those that best represent their point of view.

5stringJeff
05-06-2009, 08:25 PM
what is the libertarian party platform on religion? and what does the libertarian party consider "economic freedom"?

From the LP's platform:

1.1 Expression and Communication

We support full freedom of expression and oppose government censorship, regulation or control of communications media and technology. We favor the freedom to engage in or abstain from any religious activities that do not violate the rights of others. We oppose government actions which either aid or attack any religion.

2.0 Economic Liberty

A free and competitive market allocates resources in the most efficient manner. Each person has the right to offer goods and services to others on the free market. The only proper role of government in the economic realm is to protect property rights, adjudicate disputes, and provide a legal framework in which voluntary trade is protected. All efforts by government to redistribute wealth, or to control or manage trade, are improper in a free society.

See more:
http://www.lp.org/platform

mundame
05-06-2009, 09:03 PM
<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1> <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by emmett http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=365071#post365071)
More and more people will smarten up and vote for real change. The Libertarian Party.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>



What will cause that to happen?


Libertarians running real, live, plausible candidates.

And that would require the semi-collapse, at least, of one of the two main parties. Because we have a two-party system. So libertarians would have to REPLACE one of the other two.

Replacing the GOP would work for me.

Psychoblues
05-06-2009, 10:42 PM
Common people, even really dumb ones, are generally adverse to the fear and loathing tactics of oppositional parties. Perhaps a page from the Democratic platform might be adviseable at this point?!?!??!?!?!?!?!??! If not, then GOOD FOR YOUR DUMB ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

emmett
05-06-2009, 11:20 PM
How thoughtful.

Psychoblues
05-06-2009, 11:24 PM
'Zackly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

5stringJeff
05-09-2009, 10:50 AM
Libertarians running real, live, plausible candidates.

And that would require the semi-collapse, at least, of one of the two main parties. Because we have a two-party system. So libertarians would have to REPLACE one of the other two.

Replacing the GOP would work for me.

Agreed. The GOP is not much more than Democrat-lite on most issues of governmental influence.