shocking... Not

[actsnoblemartin]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_overhaul_cost;_ylt=Am.WAerd338SJLvtJ4aNy hLZn414

WASHINGTON – Costs are emerging as the biggest obstacle to President Barack Obama's ambitious plan to provide health insurance for everybody.

The upfront tab could reach $1.2 trillion to $1.5 trillion over 10 years, while expected savings from wringing waste and inefficiency from the health care system may take longer to show.

[April15]

Why worry about such a mundane thing like health care? Tonights news has a story about retroactive insurance cancellations for people midway through cancer treatment because of a preexisting back problem.
Seems like living is going to be the new "preexisting" health problem.

[actsnoblemartin]

didnt consider that

but is this the solution?


Why worry about such a mundane thing like health care? Tonights news has a story about retroactive insurance cancellations for people midway through cancer treatment because of a preexisting back problem.
Seems like living is going to be the new "preexisting" health problem.

[April15]

didnt consider that

but is this the solution?It is above my pay scale to figure these things out.
Seriously, I haven't seen a real viable plan for health care in hte US for all of us that currently pay premiums. What I do see is a business dispensing care in the cheapest form possible. I think a smaller and more local health care would be less concerned for cash and more concerned for hypocratic oath.

[Silver]

Why worry about such a mundane thing like health care? Tonights news has a story about retroactive insurance cancellations for people midway through cancer treatment because of a preexisting back problem.
Seems like living is going to be the new "preexisting" health problem.

This is happening a Obama's watch ??? wow..guess we know who to blame...the man in charge....

[April15]

This is happening a Obama's watch ??? wow..guess we know who to blame...the man in charge....I would expect nothing less from a republican.

[Mr. P]

It is above my pay scale to figure these things out.
Seriously, I haven't seen a real viable plan for health care in hte US for all of us that currently pay premiums. What I do see is a business dispensing care in the cheapest form possible. I think a smaller and more local health care would be less concerned for cash and more concerned for hypocratic oath.

Your health care is not local? You must travel to see a Dr.?

[April15]

Your health care is not local? You must travel to see a Dr.?25 miles round trip. But that is not what I meant by local. The administration should be local not off in another state.

[Mr. P]

25 miles round trip. But that is not what I meant by local. The administration should be local not off in another state.

They are..you must mean insurance...not health care.

[Kathianne]

It is above my pay scale to figure these things out.
Seriously, I haven't seen a real viable plan for health care in hte US for all of us that currently pay premiums. What I do see is a business dispensing care in the cheapest form possible. I think a smaller and more local health care would be less concerned for cash and more concerned for hypocratic oath.

So giving it to the federal government will improve that how?

[PostmodernProphet]

So giving it to the federal government will improve that how?

/grins.....we would all have the same non-local administrative center to travel to.....

[April15]

Taking the non essential "profit" out of health care would, I hope, mean that you would receive some care.

[Kathianne]

Taking the non essential "profit" out of health care would, I hope, mean that you would receive some care.

Wait, you said you do receive some care. Just not as 'local' as you'd like. So wtf are you now referring to?

[Mr. P]

Taking the non essential "profit" out of health care would, I hope, mean that you would receive some care.

What exactly is "non essential profit" and who determines it?

[April15]

Wait, you said you do receive some care. Just not as 'local' as you'd like. So wtf are you now referring to?
Let me start over as I don't believe you are understanding my dilemma.
I wrote, I think a smaller and more local health care would be less concerned for cash and more concerned for hypocratic oath. The meaning is that the company really doesn't care if you live or die just as long as you make the premium payment.
And I do have to travel 25 miles round trip to see a doc. Considering the time and expense it is much more practical to just not get treatment. Like the time I over worked a back muscle and the resulting spasms caused me to be unable to breath without major discomfort or to move any muscle in my body. My wife called for an ambulance and it took over an hour before the hospital had a gurney to transfer me to so the paramedics could have theirs back.
The real kicker is 60 milligrams of morphene did not improve my ability to breath so they gave me some concoction that induced vomiting and an inability to speak. I was carried out to our car and sent on down the road. In the morning I opened the door and puked my guts out before I did anything else cognitively. A neighbor helped me get out of the car and into bed. It was several weeks before I was able to stand and breathe OK.

[April15]

What exactly is "non essential profit" and who determines it?Non essential is just what it means, if it is not needed to serve the patient it is verboten.

[Kathianne]

Non essential is just what it means, if it is not needed to serve the patient it is verboten.

So there should be no profit for health care providers?

[April15]

So there should be no profit for health care providers?If you say so!

[Kathianne]

If you say so!

Genius, that was a question.

[Mr. P]

Non essential is just what it means, if it is not needed to serve the patient it is verboten.

So a Dr. that invests thousands in education an training shouldn't be allowed profit to pay his/her debt and make a living?

[PostmodernProphet]

Taking the non essential "profit" out of health care would, I hope, mean that you would receive some care.

then there must be two types of profit....the essential profit and the non essential profit.....history shows us that without profit somewhere there is no efficiency....look what happens when the military comes up against defense contractors......$500 screwdrivers and $10 screws....look at schools.....$7000 per student outlay with 50% drop out rates......

liberals can bitch all they want about cutting spending for needed programs, but they are feeding a system which has no concern for "we can't spend this much for that!"....its a system which thinks, "we can always get more money"......

[PostmodernProphet]

So a Dr. that invests thousands in education an training shouldn't be allowed profit to pay his/her debt and make a living?

I know a few doctors....they make a pretty good living....the thing that puzzles me is the drive to produce that is instilled in them.....okay, I'm a lawyer....I do pretty well, but you look at my calendar and I am seeing three, four people a day......I look at my buddies calendar and he's seeing people in fifteen minute increments, eight hours a day...so 24 people a day....and he's charging each of them more than I charge each of mine.....and there are ten other guys in his office, each doing the same.....and each complaining if one of them only sees 23.....

[April15]

So a Dr. that invests thousands in education an training shouldn't be allowed profit to pay his/her debt and make a living?I am sorry but a one shoe fits all response won't work.
An example would be a doctor who is altruistic and goes to some far off nation to help those with no care at all. Not many will or could do that. I have taken up asking docs if they became a doc for money or some other reason. Very few have responded money was their motivation.
Does this mean they won't accept money for services, NO!

[Kathianne]

I am sorry but a one shoe fits all response won't work.
An example would be a doctor who is altruistic and goes to some far off nation to help those with no care at all. Not many will or could do that. I have taken up asking docs if they became a doc for money or some other reason. Very few have responded money was their motivation.
Does this mean they won't accept money for services, NO!

They do that AFTER they've made enough to care for their families. Funny thing that YOU of all people think that medical providers are greedy and shouldn't make anything. Your whole argument is how HARD a time you have had it for years. A person unwilling to relocate, change/update your skills, etc. All you do is whine and blame party in power. I CANNOT wait until you realize that your savior will f you over.

[April15]

They do that AFTER they've made enough to care for their families. Funny thing that YOU of all people think that medical providers are greedy and shouldn't make anything. Your whole argument is how HARD a time you have had it for years. A person unwilling to relocate, change/update your skills, etc. All you do is whine and blame party in power. I CANNOT wait until you realize that your savior will f you over.I am sorry you don't understand the version of English I use.

[Mr. P]

I know a few doctors....they make a pretty good living....the thing that puzzles me is the drive to produce that is instilled in them.....okay, I'm a lawyer....I do pretty well, but you look at my calendar and I am seeing three, four people a day......I look at my buddies calendar and he's seeing people in fifteen minute increments, eight hours a day...so 24 people a day....and he's charging each of them more than I charge each of mine.....and there are ten other guys in his office, each doing the same.....and each complaining if one of them only sees 23.....

I think it's called overhead, PMP. :poke:

[Mr. P]

I am sorry but a one shoe fits all response won't work.
An example would be a doctor who is altruistic and goes to some far off nation to help those with no care at all. Not many will or could do that. I have taken up asking docs if they became a doc for money or some other reason. Very few have responded money was their motivation.
Does this mean they won't accept money for services, NO!

I'm sorry you didn't understand it's a question. I'll rephrase...are you saying a Dr. that invests thousands in education an yrs training shouldn't be allowed profit to pay his/her debt and make a living, or not?

[PostmodernProphet]

I think it's called overhead, PMP. :poke:

it's called a fancy two year old brick building that they could have done without.....

[Mr. P]

it's called a fancy two year old brick building that they could have done without.....

Some folks are just not frugal...but it's still overhead.

[emmett]

Let me start over as I don't believe you are understanding my dilemma.
I wrote, I think a smaller and more local health care would be less concerned for cash and more concerned for hypocratic oath. The meaning is that the company really doesn't care if you live or die just as long as you make the premium payment.
And I do have to travel 25 miles round trip to see a doc. Considering the time and expense it is much more practical to just not get treatment. Like the time I over worked a back muscle and the resulting spasms caused me to be unable to breath without major discomfort or to move any muscle in my body. My wife called for an ambulance and it took over an hour before the hospital had a gurney to transfer me to so the paramedics could have theirs back.
The real kicker is 60 milligrams of morphene did not improve my ability to breath so they gave me some concoction that induced vomiting and an inability to speak. I was carried out to our car and sent on down the road. In the morning I opened the door and puked my guts out before I did anything else cognitively. A neighbor helped me get out of the car and into bed. It was several weeks before I was able to stand and breathe OK.


And a Government ran Health Care System would have done .................................................. ..what?



Profit will still have emphasis under Government Health Care. Only it will be worse. We will hear things like Costs too high for unnecessary visits by citizens. Operations too costly so let's let them die. Ah...how about the one where doctors let the smoker die because he indulged in unhealthy practices. Not promoting the "common good". Um...let's see....reponsibility to the taxpayer, costs too high.


Come on man...get real. Why would we believe that something that does work effectively in other countries , just magically work for us.

[Kathianne]

Could it be? He's run out of things to say? His 'system' would leave only the lowest to pursue medicine-not worth the over $100k costs, (in /2009$$). It's a dead field until the gov't backs off.

[emmett]

Looks like I'm going to have to post another "Health care" conversation between doctors in the future at a Government run Health Care facility. LOL.

I have never witnessed a more obvious topic of stupidity than Government ran Health Care. All the ingredients for a Prescription for Failure are there and I can't believe folks do not see it. We get so into thinking something is free that we take our eye off the ball.

[Kathianne]

Looks like I'm going to have to post another "Health care" conversation between doctors in the future at a Government run Health Care facility. LOL.

I have never witnessed a more obvious topic of stupidity than Government ran Health Care. All the ingredients for a Prescription for Failure are there and I can't believe folks do not see it. We get so into thinking something is free that we take our eye off the ball.

One would think with the news the other day, that Medicare could be insolvent by 2017 and SSI by a couple decades later, that this would not be the time to bring up health care by the end of the year. But no, full speed ahead.