PDA

View Full Version : Over-the-top Aggression in Political Forums



mundame
04-12-2007, 02:44 PM
This article is from the Wall Street Journal, about the cut-throat social interactions on American political forums. Is it likely that this presages a split in America that will result finally in civil war or revolution?

Usually the Terms of Service mention "no personal attacks," but of course that is completely ignored by all without penalty. Should that be tightened up? Do we need a different form of forum governments, such as democracy?
**************************************************

WONDER LAND By DANIEL HENNINGER
Wall Street Journal
The Rebirth of Civility?
April 12, 2007; Page A14
And so it came to pass in the year 2007 that a little platoon came forth to say unto the world: Enough is enough.

Two leading citizens of the Web, Tim O'Reilly and Jimmy Wales, have proposed a "Bloggers Code of Conduct." The reason for this code is the phenomenon of people posting extremely nasty verbal comments about other people on Web sites devoted to political and social commentary. For Mr. O'Reilly, a publisher and activist for open Web standards, the last blogospheric straw involved a friend whose suggestion that it was OK to delete offensive comments from Web sites earned her a backlash of vitriol on several sites, with one posting a photo of her alongside a drawing of a noose.

It is appropriate that this line should be drawn in the ether of the World Wide Web, whose controlling ethos up to now has been that speech and expression should remain free, unfettered and -- the totemic word that ends all argument -- "democratic." As it developed, too many of the Web's democrats, for reasons that have provided much new work for clinical psychologists, tend to write in a vocabulary of rage and aggression.

Take politics. In the House of Representatives, Members by tradition address each other as the "gentleman" or "gentlewoman." These salutations often drip with irony but exist nonetheless to temper the bitterness beneath much political combat. The democrats around the Web regard any such modulating habits as hypocritical.

Unlike the fogies in politics or tradition-hampered media, they describe their opponents as what they believe they are: morons, idiots, fools, sellouts, traitors, liars (perhaps the most used word on the politicized Web), crooks and various other expressions that the touchingly termed "family" newspapers still won't print.

The admission of need for something called a Bloggers Code of Conduct is about more than just the Web. The deeper import of what may be happening here should be evident in Mr. O'Reilly's remark, which was the final sentence in a long New York Times article on the subject last Sunday: "Free speech is enhanced by civility."

It is difficult for me to imagine a more revolutionary sentence. One might call it "subversive."

"Free speech is enhanced by civility." The revolution comes at the end of that sentence. Free speech we know about. Civility we have forgotten. Ask Don Imus.

Subsets of civility would include courtesy, respect, politeness and deference. Civility is a public virtue. Like oil or wheat, it is a necessary social commodity that allows society to function.
That said, it would be overreaching to lay the blame for civility's fall on the World Wide Web. The erosion of our stores of civility occurred over the past 40 years, undermined by torrents of political rage and self-assertion.

In 1968, Abbie Hoffman, the Yippie saint and a founding father of anti-civility, wrote a book whose title alone still stands as the best summary of the new game: "Revolution for the Hell of It." The Web democrats, the public hecklers, the loudmouths are Abbie's children. They know it and are proud of it. No limits. Don't like it? Get over it. If you object, they will, like characters in a Dick Tracy cartoon, scream, "I demand my constitutional rights!"

With the Bloggers Code of Conduct comes the counterrevolution. Some excerpts:

From the Wiki site, put up by Jimmy Wales, co-founder of the remarkable and controversial Web-based encyclopedia, Wikipedia: "We take responsibility for our own words and reserve the right to restrict comments on our blog that do not conform to basic civility standards." This is a shift from an early precept of the Web known by the acronym YOYOW, or "you own your own words." In the world of YOYOW, one is responsible only to the drummer keeping the beat in one's head.

From Mr. O'Reilly's Web site: "If you know someone who is behaving badly, tell them so." Which is to say, we are surrounded now by people who have no clue that they are behaving badly, or don't believe that they are, or who argue that behaving badly is their "right." Are they wrong?
Psychologists commenting on the phenomenon of Web-based verbal abuse or aggressive public heckling often talk about society's expanded notions of personal entitlement and the failure of baby-boomer parents to set norms of behavior for their infallible children. We have ratified a lot of over-the-line behavior.

College administrators held the door open for four decades. The question at the center of oral arguments in the Supreme Court's "Bong Hits 4 Jesus" case last month was: Who runs the schools, the kids or the adults? People behaving badly have simply taken the norms their elders gave them to a logical ending point on the Web. On one level, the idea of a code of conduct for language on the Web marks the overdue restoration of adulthood in American life.

But there is a harder side to this tension. After news spread of the O'Reilly-Wales proposal, an (needless to say) angry battalion of bloggers counterattacked, crying "censorship." Now we're beyond the merely obnoxious culture of chin-dribble. Now we're talking politics and power. So the cry goes up: You can't tell us how to talk. That's "censorship."

The censorship claim is often made by political Web players who want to be "free" to use whatever means will achieve the end of driving their opponents over the cliff. Consider the Congressional Black Caucus. Its affiliation with Fox News to conduct presidential debates was fire-bombed recently on "progressive" Web sites. Example: "Guess it takes a whole lot of grease to fry CBC's chicken." Scared, the three major Democratic presidential candidates pulled out. Censorship? Try doublespeak. The strategy of deploying charged and hyper-aggressive language is now evident: First intimidate one's targets, then coerce them -- into conformity or silence. And do it always under the banner of free speech and democracy.

There is no evident political coloration to the broader concern that's arisen about conduct on the Web. The anti-civility trolls are in restaurants, stadiums, theaters, planes, church, the airwaves, in dreams. This is merely a recognition that rules of the road can indeed enhance, not suppress, the flow of truly free expression and minimize the already ample frictions of daily life. Better late than never.

GW in Ohio
04-12-2007, 02:56 PM
Yes, this is a pertinent topic.

My own guideline for participating in political forums is that political figures (e.g., George Bush, Hillary Clinton) are fair game and can be called whatever names you think are appropriate.

But you cannot do the same thing to other members of the forum. You must be courteous and civil when discussing politics with others.

So this is okay (according to my code):

George Bush is a frickin' idiot.
Hillary Clinton is a nasty bitch, and a communist to boot.

But it is not okay to say your fellow posters are stupid, or assholes, or anything like that. I've also never been fond of telling other people they are liars; I've never seen what good that accomplishes, except maybe to make you feel good. But it polarizes the discussion.

Dilloduck
04-12-2007, 03:15 PM
Yes, this is a pertinent topic.

My own guideline for participating in political forums is that political figures (e.g., George Bush, Hillary Clinton) are fair game and can be called whatever names you think are appropriate.

But you cannot do the same thing to other members of the forum. You must be courteous and civil when discussing politics with others.

So this is okay (according to my code):

George Bush is a frickin' idiot.
Hillary Clinton is a nasty bitch, and a communist to boot.

But it is not okay to say your fellow posters are stupid, or assholes, or anything like that. I've also never been fond of telling other people they are liars; I've never seen what good that accomplishes, except maybe to make you feel good. But it polarizes the discussion.

Liar---you trash posters here all the time
you--civil ??? gimme a break

Birdzeye
04-12-2007, 03:18 PM
Liar---you tash posters here all the time
you--civil ??? gimme a break

Ooooo-kay. :rolleyes:

Dilloduck
04-12-2007, 03:21 PM
Ooooo-kay. :rolleyes:

too hard for you to understand or what ?

loosecannon
04-12-2007, 03:24 PM
Excellent topic.

The opening article however was entirely partisan and very poorly treated.

They essentially miss the entire point of free speech, Abby Hoffman and the web.

The back drop to this rare window of exuberance is 1000 years of repression by Calvanist whacko creeps who locked people in public stocks just for having sex.

Call it a well tempered and very constructive reaction to 1000 years of psychotic, nut crunching repression of our real selves.

The fact that Neocons are at war with, in fact intimidated by, the one time reactionary generation called the "counterculture" is evident in the design of the article's treatment of the topic.

The neocons hate us for our freedom.

Fuck the neocons.

Birdzeye
04-12-2007, 03:25 PM
too hard for you to understand or what ?

I think that post exemplifies what this topic is about. :coffee:

loosecannon
04-12-2007, 03:27 PM
too hard for you to understand or what ?

No we have known GW O HI O from numerous boards spanning 240 years. He is as gentle as a lamb.

Dilloduck
04-12-2007, 03:28 PM
I think that post exemplifies what this topic is about. :coffee:

possibly but GW claiming to be innocent of incivilty is not the truth--read some of his posts.

GW in Ohio
04-12-2007, 03:29 PM
Liar---you trash posters here all the time
you--civil ??? gimme a break

Dillo: I would never respond in kind to a post like yours. You are free to think whatever you like about me.

Dilloduck
04-12-2007, 03:31 PM
Dillo: I would never respond in kind to a post like yours. You are free to think whatever you like about me.

GW--it's just the truth. Watme to find an example of you being rude to a poster ?

GW in Ohio
04-12-2007, 03:34 PM
Liar---you trash posters here all the time
you--civil ??? gimme a break

I will say this, dilloduck.......

I have trashed right-wingers as a group any number of times. According to my canon, this is allowable. But I never trash or insult an individual right-winger. I've been around long enough to know that only leads to ugly exchanges and simmering resentments.

So, according to the GW Canon of Ethics....

This is okay:
Right-wingers are a bunch of fucking morons.

This is not okay:
Dilloduck, you are a fucking moron.

It's my code of ethics, and it works for me.

Birdzeye
04-12-2007, 03:36 PM
possibly but GW claiming to be innocent of incivilty is not the truth--read some of his posts.

Well, as long as you don't claim to be innocent of incivility . . . :laugh2:

Dilloduck
04-12-2007, 03:37 PM
I will say this, dilloduck.......

I have trashed right-wingers as a group any number of times. According to my canon, this is allowable. But I never trash or insult an individual right-winger. I've been around long enough to know that only leads to ugly exchanges and simmering resentments.

So, according to the GW Canon of Ethics....

This is okay:
Right-wingers are a bunch of fucking morons.

This is not okay:
Dilloduck, you are a fucking moron.

It's my code of ethics, and it works for me.


typical--your code of ethics has changed in about 5 minutes

Dilloduck
04-12-2007, 03:38 PM
Well, as long as you don't claim to be innocent of incivility . . . :laugh2:

I'd never claim that---I've jumped all over some peoples asses but I would be interested in seeing more civility practiced here. but I ain't gonna hold my breath:coffee:

Baron Von Esslingen
04-13-2007, 01:33 AM
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d36/BaronVonEsslingen/imholdingbreath.jpg

Me, neither.

stephanie
04-13-2007, 01:43 AM
:lol: I thought it got awfully quiet around here..............:laugh2:

gabosaurus
04-13-2007, 11:40 PM
The WSJ needs to get its head out of its arse and go back to financial news. The internet is the last bastion of free expression. Anyone who goes into a political forum knows there are going to be some extreme comments, in both directions.
Anyone who gets upset or offended by something they read on the internet is free to press the "off" button.