ACORN is just the first step...

[bullypulpit]

..In defunding the numerous other contractors who have defrauded the US government or otherwise violated their contracts and law in conducting business with the US government.

<a href=http://articles.latimes.com/2005/mar/02/business/fi-northrop2>Northrop-Gumman</a>

<a href=http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/112007dnbuslockheedsuit.1c6297e7.html>Lockheed-Martin</a>

<a href=http://www.prisonplanet.com/american_firm_in_bosnia_sex_trade_row.html>DynCorp</a>

<a href=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/27/military-deaths-electric-shocks>KBR</a>

<a href=http://www.contractormisconduct.org/index.cfm/1,73,223,html?criteria=Blackwater&submit=search>Blackwater</a>

For a more comprehensive list, including a searchable database, go to <a href=http://www.contractormisconduct.org/>POGO</a>

All these, and many more, contractors must also be defunded for defrauding the government and the American taxpayer...that is, of course, unless the bill stripping funding from ACORN for fraudulent behavior, for which no one has ever been convicted let alone indicted...was anything more than a partisan witch-hunt.

So, if Congress is REALLY concerned about contractor fraud...if the bill defunding ACORN isn't really an unconstitutional bill of attainder...heads should start rolling very soon. Somehow, I don't think our congressional delegations on either side of the aisle have the spine to start slaughtering their campaign cash cows.

[avatar4321]

You are seriously defending ACORN? You've got to be kidding me.

And its impossible for defunding to be a bill of attainder. They dont have a right to tax payer moneys. They werent convicted of a crime and arent serving jail time.

[bullypulpit]

You are seriously defending ACORN? You've got to be kidding me.

And its impossible for defunding to be a bill of attainder. They dont have a right to tax payer moneys. They werent convicted of a crime and arent serving jail time.


<blockquote>A bill of attainder (also known as an act or writ of attainder) is an act of the legislature declaring a person or group of persons guilty of some crime and punishing them <b>without benefit of a trial</b>.</blockquote>

<blockquote>In general, absent an agency proceeding to determine that ACORN and everyone of its affiliates have engaged in unlawful behavior, the permanent exclusion of all of these organizations would be difficult to justify as regulatory in nature. While the Supreme Court has noted that courts will
generally defer to Congress as to the regulatory purpose of a statute absent clear proof of punitive intent, there appear to be several potential problems raised by attempts to find a rational nonpunitive regulatory purpose for this legislation. Thus, it appears that a court may have a sufficient
basis to overcome the presumption of constitutionality, and find that the proposed Defund ACORN Act <i><b>violates the prohibition against bills of attainder</b></i>. - <a href=http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/DefundACORNAct.pdf>The Proposed “Defund ACORN Act”: Is it a
“Bill of Attainder?”</a></blockquote>

Sorry, Avi the Congressional Research Service says that the "Defund ACORN Act" IS a bill of attainder. Epic Fail on your part...again.

[Nukeman]

<blockquote>A bill of attainder (also known as an act or writ of attainder) is an act of the legislature declaring a person or group of persons guilty of some crime and punishing them <b>without benefit of a trial</b>.</blockquote>

<blockquote>In general, absent an agency proceeding to determine that ACORN and everyone of its affiliates have engaged in unlawful behavior, the permanent exclusion of all of these organizations would be difficult to justify as regulatory in nature. While the Supreme Court has noted that courts will
generally defer to Congress as to the regulatory purpose of a statute absent clear proof of punitive intent, there appear to be several potential problems raised by attempts to find a rational nonpunitive regulatory purpose for this legislation. Thus, it appears that a court may have a sufficient
basis to overcome the presumption of constitutionality, and find that the proposed Defund ACORN Act <i><b>violates the prohibition against bills of attainder</b></i>. - <a href=http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/DefundACORNAct.pdf>The Proposed “Defund ACORN Act”: Is it a
“Bill of Attainder?”</a></blockquote>

Sorry, Avi the Congressional Research Service says that the "Defund ACORN Act" IS a bill of attainder. Epic Fail on your part...again.

So let me get this straight... If a company recieves GOVERNMENT monies (see tax money) they can not stop recieving if they are caught doing illegal activities?????? Does that just sound plain crazy to anyone other than me??????

5 different offices on opposite cost told them the same thing!!!! YOU think that is OK????? I for one think ALL FUNDING should be stopped until they can prove or disprove what the hell is going on in their organization!!!! Or are you happy with throwing money at a bunch of crooked people????

[bullypulpit]

So let me get this straight... If a company recieves GOVERNMENT monies (see tax money) they can not stop recieving if they are caught doing illegal activities?????? Does that just sound plain crazy to anyone other than me??????

5 different offices on opposite cost told them the same thing!!!! YOU think that is OK????? I for one think ALL FUNDING should be stopped until they can prove or disprove what the hell is going on in their organization!!!! Or are you happy with throwing money at a bunch of crooked people????

So you think it's OK for Northrop-Grumman and Lockheed-Martin to defraud the government to the tune of billions of dollars and STILL get government contracts? You think it's OK for DynCorp employees to engage in child prostitution in Bosnia-Hertzegovina and still get government contracts? Your hypocrisy is showing like a big, pustulent, glow-in-the-dark zit on your forehead. Meh.

[avatar4321]

<blockquote>A bill of attainder (also known as an act or writ of attainder) is an act of the legislature declaring a person or group of persons guilty of some crime and punishing them <b>without benefit of a trial</b>.</blockquote>

<blockquote>In general, absent an agency proceeding to determine that ACORN and everyone of its affiliates have engaged in unlawful behavior, the permanent exclusion of all of these organizations would be difficult to justify as regulatory in nature. While the Supreme Court has noted that courts will
generally defer to Congress as to the regulatory purpose of a statute absent clear proof of punitive intent, there appear to be several potential problems raised by attempts to find a rational nonpunitive regulatory purpose for this legislation. Thus, it appears that a court may have a sufficient
basis to overcome the presumption of constitutionality, and find that the proposed Defund ACORN Act <i><b>violates the prohibition against bills of attainder</b></i>. - <a href=http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/DefundACORNAct.pdf>The Proposed “Defund ACORN Act”: Is it a
“Bill of Attainder?”</a></blockquote>

Sorry, Avi the Congressional Research Service says that the "Defund ACORN Act" IS a bill of attainder. Epic Fail on your part...again.

I love having idiots explain the law to me. What's funny is this isnt rocket science and even lay people could understand this. A Bill of Attainder is where Congress finds someone guilty of a crime and punishes them without a trial. This can in no ways be a Bill of Attainder for several reasons:

1) There was no finding of guilt by Congress.
2) Congress has the right to fund or strip funding from whomever they want in the Constitution.
3) All officials of ACORN who are engaging in criminal activity are recieving trials or soon will be.
4) Congress has absolutely no need to wait until some trials to defund ACORN because ACORN has no right to Tax money to begin with. In fact, Congress has a right and, in fact, a duty to watch over the tax funds and make sure they dont end up in the hands of questionable individuals or groups (though obviously they dont do their job or else they would all resign).

Denying someone a benefit they arent entitled to isnt punishment. It's prudence.

Now tell me, has Congress found ACORN guilty of felonies or misdemeanors? If you cant tell me then there is no bill of Attainder.

The reason for the Constitution to prohibit Congress from enacting a Bill of Attainder is to maintain the Separation of powers and keep Congress from preforming functions of the Judicial branch. Tax and spend powers lie win the Legislative branch, not the Judicial branch. Congress is the only branch of government that can defund ACORN. And they can do so for whatever reason.

[avatar4321]

So you think it's OK for Northrop-Grumman and Lockheed-Martin to defraud the government to the tune of billions of dollars and STILL get government contracts? You think it's OK for DynCorp employees to engage in child prostitution in Bosnia-Hertzegovina and still get government contracts? Your hypocrisy is showing like a big, pustulent, glow-in-the-dark zit on your forehead. Meh.

Apparently you do.

[glockmail]

..In defunding the numerous other contractors who have defrauded the US government or otherwise violated their contracts and law in conducting business with the US government.

<a href=http://articles.latimes.com/2005/mar/02/business/fi-northrop2>Northrop-Gumman</a>

<a href=http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/112007dnbuslockheedsuit.1c6297e7.html>Lockheed-Martin</a>

<a href=http://www.prisonplanet.com/american_firm_in_bosnia_sex_trade_row.html>DynCorp</a>

<a href=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/27/military-deaths-electric-shocks>KBR</a>

<a href=http://www.contractormisconduct.org/index.cfm/1,73,223,html?criteria=Blackwater&submit=search>Blackwater</a>

For a more comprehensive list, including a searchable database, go to <a href=http://www.contractormisconduct.org/>POGO</a>

All these, and many more, contractors must also be defunded for defrauding the government and the American taxpayer...that is, of course, unless the bill stripping funding from ACORN for fraudulent behavior, for which no one has ever been convicted let alone indicted...was anything more than a partisan witch-hunt.

So, if Congress is REALLY concerned about contractor fraud...if the bill defunding ACORN isn't really an unconstitutional bill of attainder...heads should start rolling very soon. Somehow, I don't think our congressional delegations on either side of the aisle have the spine to start slaughtering their campaign cash cows.
Are you upset because Chimpy McPresident's old employer got outed?

[Missileman]

<blockquote>A bill of attainder (also known as an act or writ of attainder) is an act of the legislature declaring a person or group of persons guilty of some crime and punishing them <b>without benefit of a trial</b>.</blockquote>

<blockquote>In general, absent an agency proceeding to determine that ACORN and everyone of its affiliates have engaged in unlawful behavior, the permanent exclusion of all of these organizations would be difficult to justify as regulatory in nature. While the Supreme Court has noted that courts will
generally defer to Congress as to the regulatory purpose of a statute absent clear proof of punitive intent, there appear to be several potential problems raised by attempts to find a rational nonpunitive regulatory purpose for this legislation. Thus, it appears that a court may have a sufficient
basis to overcome the presumption of constitutionality, and find that the proposed Defund ACORN Act <i><b>violates the prohibition against bills of attainder</b></i>. - <a href=http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/DefundACORNAct.pdf>The Proposed “Defund ACORN Act”: Is it a
“Bill of Attainder?”</a></blockquote>

Sorry, Avi the Congressional Research Service says that the "Defund ACORN Act" IS a bill of attainder. Epic Fail on your part...again.

Sorry Bully...but ACORN has no right to public funding. Their support is purely discretionary. Cutting their funding is not punishment, so there is no attainder.

[bullypulpit]

Why is it that y'all automatically dismiss anything which contradicts your narrow, dogmatic world view? Had the opinion that the "Defund Acorn Act" might violate the constitutional provisions against bills of attainder been mine, you might have a point. However, it is the Congressional Research Service that has proffered this opinion...not me.

Secondly, the language of the act may indeed be broad enough to avoid the taint of a bill of attainder. But does Congress have the balls to go after everyone else that gets caught up in the net of this bill? Lockheed-Martin?...Northrop-Grumman?...Xi (aka Blackwater)?...DynCorp?...and so many others? In a word, no. Not on either side of the aisle. So is a de facto bill of attainder any different then, than an actual one?

[bullypulpit]

Are you upset because Chimpy McPresident's old employer got outed?

No...not at all. Just by the blatant and ongoing hypocrisy of you slack-jawed mouth-breathing RWN's.

[glockmail]

No...not at all. Just by the blatant and ongoing hypocrisy of you slack-jawed mouth-breathing RWN's. Is that all you've got, bigotry? I thought your Chimpy McPresident was supposed to end all that?

[bullypulpit]

Is that all you've got, bigotry? I thought your Chimpy McPresident was supposed to end all that?

:lol: :lame2:

Is that the best YOU'VE got? Lame-assed one liners that have nothing to do with the topic?

Never mind...they're rhetorical questions as I already know the answers.

[glockmail]

:lol: :lame2:

Is that the best YOU'VE got? Lame-assed one liners that have nothing to do with the topic?

Never mind...they're rhetorical questions as I already know the answers. I borrowed the line from you Bully. You've used it about 65 times against George Bush. Now all of a sudden it's "lame ass"?

You're pwned big time. :lol:

[Missileman]

Why is it that y'all automatically dismiss anything which contradicts your narrow, dogmatic world view? Had the opinion that the "Defund Acorn Act" might violate the constitutional provisions against bills of attainder been mine, you might have a point. However, it is the Congressional Research Service that has proffered this opinion...not me.

Secondly, the language of the act may indeed be broad enough to avoid the taint of a bill of attainder. But does Congress have the balls to go after everyone else that gets caught up in the net of this bill? Lockheed-Martin?...Northrop-Grumman?...Xi (aka Blackwater)?...DynCorp?...and so many others? In a word, no. Not on either side of the aisle. So is a de facto bill of attainder any different then, than an actual one?

You'll have to take it up with your party, Bully...they're currently running the show..err...dog and pony show. My guess is however they'll continue business as usual and dole out money to whoever they think can help them get re-elected.

The stink of ACORN has hung in the air for a long time and your party was going to trow them a shitload more money anyways. They were more than happy to do so until someone pulled back the covers and the Dems could no longer claim, "no one's ever proven anything against ACORN".

[avatar4321]

How odd, no response...

[theHawk]

..In defunding the numerous other contractors who have defrauded the US government or otherwise violated their contracts and law in conducting business with the US government.

<a href=http://articles.latimes.com/2005/mar/02/business/fi-northrop2>Northrop-Gumman</a>

<a href=http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/112007dnbuslockheedsuit.1c6297e7.html>Lockheed-Martin</a>

<a href=http://www.prisonplanet.com/american_firm_in_bosnia_sex_trade_row.html>DynCorp</a>

<a href=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/27/military-deaths-electric-shocks>KBR</a>

<a href=http://www.contractormisconduct.org/index.cfm/1,73,223,html?criteria=Blackwater&submit=search>Blackwater</a>

For a more comprehensive list, including a searchable database, go to <a href=http://www.contractormisconduct.org/>POGO</a>

All these, and many more, contractors must also be defunded for defrauding the government and the American taxpayer...that is, of course, unless the bill stripping funding from ACORN for fraudulent behavior, for which no one has ever been convicted let alone indicted...was anything more than a partisan witch-hunt.

So, if Congress is REALLY concerned about contractor fraud...if the bill defunding ACORN isn't really an unconstitutional bill of attainder...heads should start rolling very soon. Somehow, I don't think our congressional delegations on either side of the aisle have the spine to start slaughtering their campaign cash cows.

How does ACORN compare to contractors that work for the government? Those companies actually produce things or services for the government (military mostly). ACORN does nothing of the sort.