SD schools halt release of student records to military

[gabosaurus]

Of course, the main question is, why are schools required to release student records to the military in the first place? High school kids have better things to worry about. Like making good enough grades to attend college or get a good job.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/sep/30/bn30military121536/

[Nukeman]

Of course, the main question is, why are schools required to release student records to the military in the first place? High school kids have better things to worry about. Like making good enough grades to attend college or get a good job.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/sep/30/bn30military121536/

Well schools are PUBLICLY funded just like the military is PUBLICLY funded!!!

There is NO REASON the military should not have access to high school students academic records. If your opposed to this practice you can opt out it has been standard for a long time..

I for one would rather have EDUCATED military personnel. How about you??

Why do you feel the military should not have access??? What would be your reason for them to not have the opportunity. Should we also limit the colleges ability to access the same information I mean after all these kids should only be concentrating on their grades and doing a good job, and not having to worry about tomorrow or anything!!!!

[Nukeman]

Of course, the main question is, why are schools required to release student records to the military in the first place? High school kids have better things to worry about. Like making good enough grades to attend college or get a good job.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/sep/30/bn30military121536/

Ohh,!!!! think of it as payment for FREE EDUCATION,

[darin]

Of course, the main question is, why are schools required to release student records to the military in the first place? High school kids have better things to worry about. Like making good enough grades to attend college or get a good job.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/sep/30/bn30military121536/

Hateful, elitist Bitch. The Military IS a good job.

[Yurt]

Well schools are PUBLICLY funded just like the military is PUBLICLY funded!!!

There is NO REASON the military should not have access to high school students academic records. If your opposed to this practice you can opt out it has been standard for a long time..

I for one would rather have EDUCATED military personnel. How about you??

Why do you feel the military should not have access??? What would be your reason for them to not have the opportunity. Should we also limit the colleges ability to access the same information I mean after all these kids should only be concentrating on their grades and doing a good job, and not having to worry about tomorrow or anything!!!!

so any entity that is publicly funded should have access to our kids school records? colleges only get the ability once you give the consent to look at your records, eg., applying to their schools....if you apply to the military or get drafted, then and only then should the military have access, not before

[Yurt]

Hateful, elitist Bitch. The Military IS a good job.

damn right...the military is a good job....leave it to gabs to piss on those who defend this country

[Nukeman]

so any entity that is publicly funded should have access to our kids school records? colleges only get the ability once you give the consent to look at your records, eg., applying to their schools....if you apply to the military or get drafted, then and only then should the military have access, not before

Let you in on a little secret, if its government than they have access to your records even medical..... Just saying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gabosaurus]

The military is an employer. Our school system prohibits the release of student information to anyone without permission from their parents or guardians.
The military used to be able to set up "information tables" during lunch periods. This was challenged when other companies were denied the right to set up similar "information tables." Now, all outside groups are restricted from access to students except for officially sanctioned events.


Hateful, elitist Bitch. The Military IS a good job.

No one said the military is not a good job. Perhaps you should actually THINK before you post hateful, elitist shit like that.

[Yurt]

Let you in on a little secret, if its government than they have access to your records even medical..... Just saying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thats different than your point....which was, they have a right to that info....whether they do in spite of the fact i don't think they have a right is different....

i have no doubt the government can access all sorts of crap...which would actually violate many laws, including their own, HIPPA

[Nukeman]

thats different than your point....which was, they have a right to that info....whether they do in spite of the fact i don't think they have a right is different....

i have no doubt the government can access all sorts of crap...which would actually violate many laws, including their own, HIPPA

Actually with HIPPA they left a provision for themselves (the gov't)to have access to your health care information.. Nice huh!!!!!!!!

[actsnoblemartin]

I couldnt agree more. :clap:


Hateful, elitist Bitch. The Military IS a good job.

[chloe]

Of course, the main question is, why are schools required to release student records to the military in the first place? High school kids have better things to worry about. Like making good enough grades to attend college or get a good job.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/sep/30/bn30military121536/

SAN DIEGO — The San Diego school district has halted its annual transfer of student records to the military amid allegations that administrators pre-marked parental consent forms that give recruiters permission to contact families.
District officials launched an investigation into the matter Wednesday and began sifting through thousands of high school enrollment documents.
De'Onte Victorian, a sophomore at Lincoln High School, brought his pre-checked form to Tuesday's school board meeting to protest what he described as “a scam to get him to join the military instead of going to college.”
De'Onte noticed that the question asking, “Is it okay to release your child's information to military recruiters?” had a computer-generated check inside the box next to it. Other questions had also been answered, including one regarding migrant work and another asking whether a parent wants their address and phone number printed in a directory.
District officials at Tuesday's meeting said the forms likely included a cover letter asking parents to verify information it had on record.
Still, school board members and some administrators said the letters were misleading, especially to parents who do not speak or read English. The enrollment forms were sent in English only.
“This was a mistake that we are going to correct,” said Deputy Superintendent Chuch Morris.
As required under federal law, San Diego Unified sends military recruiters records of students – unless their parents object – every October.
But the district is required to notify parents of their right to opt out. Morris said the district would not release any student records to the military until it is confident parents had an opportunity to opt out.

It seems like the article is saying some mistake was made by the school, and that it acknowledges by law the school sends military recruiters student info unless there is parental objection. Im not sure how selective services works these days, but I think part of being a citizen here means there is a mandatory requirement to register.

Almost all male U.S. citizens, and male aliens living in the U.S., who are 18 through 25, are required to register with Selective Service. It's important to know that even though he is registered, a man will not automatically be inducted into the military. In a crisis requiring a draft, men would be called in sequence determined by random lottery number and year of birth. Then, they would be examined for mental, physical and moral fitness by the military before being deferred or exempted from military service or inducted into the Armed Forces.

http://www.sss.gov/FSwho.htm

[Yurt]

Actually with HIPPA they left a provision for themselves (the gov't)to have access to your health care information.. Nice huh!!!!!!!!

those bastards!

[theHawk]

SAN DIEGO — The San Diego school district has halted its annual transfer of student records to the military amid allegations that administrators pre-marked parental consent forms that give recruiters permission to contact families.
District officials launched an investigation into the matter Wednesday and began sifting through thousands of high school enrollment documents.
De'Onte Victorian, a sophomore at Lincoln High School, brought his pre-checked form to Tuesday's school board meeting to protest what he described as “a scam to get him to join the military instead of going to college.”
De'Onte noticed that the question asking, “Is it okay to release your child's information to military recruiters?” had a computer-generated check inside the box next to it. Other questions had also been answered, including one regarding migrant work and another asking whether a parent wants their address and phone number printed in a directory.
District officials at Tuesday's meeting said the forms likely included a cover letter asking parents to verify information it had on record.
Still, school board members and some administrators said the letters were misleading, especially to parents who do not speak or read English. The enrollment forms were sent in English only.
“This was a mistake that we are going to correct,” said Deputy Superintendent Chuch Morris.
As required under federal law, San Diego Unified sends military recruiters records of students – unless their parents object – every October.
But the district is required to notify parents of their right to opt out. Morris said the district would not release any student records to the military until it is confident parents had an opportunity to opt out.

It seems like the article is saying some mistake was made by the school, and that it acknowledges by law the school sends military recruiters student info unless there is parental objection. Im not sure how selective services works these days, but I think part of being a citizen here means there is a mandatory requirement to register.

Almost all male U.S. citizens, and male aliens living in the U.S., who are 18 through 25, are required to register with Selective Service. It's important to know that even though he is registered, a man will not automatically be inducted into the military. In a crisis requiring a draft, men would be called in sequence determined by random lottery number and year of birth. Then, they would be examined for mental, physical and moral fitness by the military before being deferred or exempted from military service or inducted into the Armed Forces.

http://www.sss.gov/FSwho.htm

Yes, according to the story the school gives the option of not sending the information. But it sounds like the "protestors" are trying to turn it around on the school and/or government that the form was "only in English". Tough shit, this is America. And how is it a "scam" if the military recruiter is trying to get a kid to join the military, thats what they are supposed to do. If you don''t want to join, then DON'T. Its as easy as that.

The selective service is something entirely different. Every male does need to be registered but it requires no documents like school records.

[darin]

No one said the military is not a good job. Perhaps you should actually THINK before you post hateful, elitist shit like that.



Of course, the main question is, why are schools required to release student records to the military in the first place? High school kids have better things to worry about. Like making good enough grades to attend college or get a good job.



emphasis mine, hatemonger.

Military is VITAL for national defense. I support ALL records being released as required, to support the mission of national defense. The military has been VERY good to me, per$onally and professionally. I'd bet dollars to donuts I'm doing much better now, having been in the army, than I would be doing had I pittled around a community college for a couple years after high school.

[Noir]

Hateful, elitist Bitch. The Military IS a good job.


Off topic and a personal attack, gee, shouldn't shaff members set an example?

[theHawk]

Off topic and a personal attack, gee, shouldn't shaff members set an example?

Why? Do you actually think any member here needs to have their hand held and be shown how to "act" on a message board?

[Noir]

Why? Do you actually think any member here needs to have their hand held and be shown how to "act" on a message board?

No, however, if I went onto a thread and made no reference to the thread but instead called the OP a bitch then I would expect a warning from a Mod or something like that, now if I recieved a warning from DMP after the post he just made I would be inclined to think that what I am saying is only wrong because I'm not a DP staff member,

[Kathianne]

Off topic and a personal attack, gee, shouldn't shaff members set an example?

How was his reply 'off topic'?
...or get a good job.

[Noir]

How was his reply 'off topic'?

Because the whole quote reads "High school kids have better things to worry about. Like making good enough grades to attend college or get a good job."

Which is common sense,
you go to school to learn to come out and get a good job, at no point was the Army described as a bad job,

[Kathianne]

Because the whole quote reads "High school kids have better things to worry about. Like making good enough grades to attend college or get a good job."

Which is common sense,
you go to school to learn to come out and get a good job, at no point was the Army described as a bad job,

The Army IS a good job, thus should not have been considered excluded, which it was.

[Jeff]

No, however, if I went onto a thread and made no reference to the thread but instead called the OP a bitch then I would expect a warning from a Mod or something like that, now if I recieved a warning from DMP after the post he just made I would be inclined to think that what I am saying is only wrong because I'm not a DP staff member,

Noir DMP and Gabby have known each other for quite a while, I can tell you , you will find no fairer person than DMP, I am not sure but I think DMP works for the Military, if he does and believed Gabby was putting it down I would say he had a right to snap, but I see Gabby explained she wasn't putting a job with the military down

Believe me I think most would agree with me, if DMP snaps there is probably a reason for it, and besides just cause they are Mods they can still debate and even more important they still have feelings

[NightTrain]

Hateful, elitist Bitch. The Military IS a good job.

Yes indeed, you hit the nail right on the head.

[gabosaurus]

Where in this thread did I mention that the military was not a good job?
To many high school students, any job is a good job. I am saying that, during high school, kids need to worry about academics. They don't need to be pressured to choose what to do after high school.
dmp, as is often the case, jumped to the conclusion that I was bashing the military. And, as usual, his is mistaken.
As a member of the military, dmp thinks that job is the most important one there is. As the daughter of a teacher, I believe education is more important. I am just not as arrogant and self-righteous about it.
ALL potential employers should have a level playing field to appeal to kids. I always urge parents not to release information to anyone. Once the child is 18, then they can make their own decision.


I'd bet dollars to donuts I'm doing much better now, having been in the army, than I would be doing had I pittled around a community college for a couple years after high school.

And I am doing better now after obtaining a masters degree in psychology. My husband is doing better now after getting a degree in finance. These are our chosen professions, and we are doing quite well. We don't need military training to do our jobs.

Any who desires a military career is welcome to do so. But it should never been jammed down anyone's throat. Not every is cut out to be a member of the military.
Yes, the military is vital to this country. So are police, fire, medical personnel, first responders and others.

Many of the vets on this board believe they are more important than anyone else. Sorry dudes, you're not. My job is just as vital as yours. My mom's job was just as vital as yours. My husband's job is just as vital as yours.
But feel free to carry on with your arrogant piss takes. Especially if they make you feel better about yourselves.

[Kathianne]

Where in this thread did I mention that the military was not a good job?
To many high school students, any job is a good job. I am saying that, during high school, kids need to worry about academics. They don't need to be pressured to choose what to do after high school.
dmp, as is often the case, jumped to the conclusion that I was bashing the military. And, as usual, his is mistaken.
As a member of the military, dmp thinks that job is the most important one there is. As the daughter of a teacher, I believe education is more important. I am just not as arrogant and self-righteous about it.
ALL potential employers should have a level playing field to appeal to kids. I always urge parents not to release information to anyone. Once the child is 18, then they can make their own decision.



And I am doing better now after obtaining a masters degree in psychology. My husband is doing better now after getting a degree in finance. These are our chosen professions, and we are doing quite well. We don't need military training to do our jobs.

Any who desires a military career is welcome to do so. But it should never been jammed down anyone's throat. Not every is cut out to be a member of the military.
Yes, the military is vital to this country. So are police, fire, medical personnel, first responders and others.

Many of the vets on this board believe they are more important than anyone else. Sorry dudes, you're not. My job is just as vital as yours. My mom's job was just as vital as yours. My husband's job is just as vital as yours.
But feel free to carry on with your arrogant piss takes. Especially if they make you feel better about yourselves.

Gabby, you work in a high school, right? I know that even in middle school, we're teaching the children the skills needed for high school, including being aware of their choices regarding their future. No one gets into Ivy League or Military Universities, without a plan from Grade 9 on...

[gabosaurus]

Exactly. So work on the plan. You can choose your employer later. And you should always be free to change your mind.

[Jeff]

Where in this thread did I mention that the military was not a good job?
To many high school students, any job is a good job. I am saying that, during high school, kids need to worry about academics. They don't need to be pressured to choose what to do after high school.
dmp, as is often the case, jumped to the conclusion that I was bashing the military. And, as usual, his is mistaken.
As a member of the military, dmp thinks that job is the most important one there is. As the daughter of a teacher, I believe education is more important. I am just not as arrogant and self-righteous about it.
ALL potential employers should have a level playing field to appeal to kids. I always urge parents not to release information to anyone. Once the child is 18, then they can make their own decision.




And I am doing better now after obtaining a masters degree in psychology. My husband is doing better now after getting a degree in finance. These are our chosen professions, and we are doing quite well. We don't need military training to do our jobs.

Any who desires a military career is welcome to do so. But it should never been jammed down anyone's throat. Not every is cut out to be a member of the military.
Yes, the military is vital to this country. So are police, fire, medical personnel, first responders and others.

Many of the vets on this board believe they are more important than anyone else. Sorry dudes, you're not. My job is just as vital as yours. My mom's job was just as vital as yours. My husband's job is just as vital as yours.
But feel free to carry on with your arrogant piss takes. Especially if they make you feel better about yourselves.


Gabby in my post I did say you had come back and stated you never said the military was a bad job, I think there was a mis understanding is all

[darin]

Where in this thread did I mention that the military was not a good job?

You are the stupidest 'educated' person I've ever seen.


You wrote kids shouldn't have to be 'bothered' by Recruiters because they should be allowed to focus on getting a 'good' job. Twice it's been pointed out to you.



To many high school students, any job is a good job. I am saying that, during high school, kids need to worry about academics. They don't need to be pressured to choose what to do after high school.

So - the Military opening options to kids isn't good - but EVERY OTHER agency, plan, influence that pushes kids to do well in school is fine? Don't play coy - you know full well you single out the Military - WHICH HELPS kids do well - PROMOTES education, and prepares kids for LIFE better than ANY school.



dmp, as is often the case, jumped to the conclusion that I was bashing the military. And, as usual, his is mistaken.

I am never wrong without admitting it. You bash the military EVERY CHANCE YOU GET...enough with the passive aggressive bullshit.


As a member of the military, dmp thinks that job is the most important one there is. As the daughter of a teacher, I believe education is more important. I am just not as arrogant and self-righteous about it.

I am not a Soldier. There's no higher profession than a Soldier, Airman, Sailor, or Marine. None. When I say "Soldier" I include all services. Soldiers ARE teachers. Soldiers Educate better than any professor in any classroom. Soldiers are Doctors. Soldiers Doctor better than any resident in any ER. Soldiers are Attorneys - who fight for justice. Soldiers are Pastors, who lead folks to deeper understandings of Faith and service. Soldiers are Police - who respond to and care for those in emergencies. Your constant attempt to degrade the profession is nauseating, un-american; you should feel ashamed of yourself as a citizen.


ALL potential employers should have a level playing field to appeal to kids. I always urge parents not to release information to anyone. Once the child is 18, then they can make their own decision.

And they do. Kids are subject to a barrage of career fields during HS. Again, NONE more noble than being a Soldier.

[/quote]And I am doing better now after obtaining a masters degree in psychology. My husband is doing better now after getting a degree in finance. These are our chosen professions, and we are doing quite well. We don't need military training to do our jobs. [/quote]

But none of your degrees has made you a better person. Had you sacrificed ONE THING in your life besides your time, you'd BE a better person. You are an educated idiot gabs. What have you done two shits worth of work to make your country a better place? Imagine, if you can, how much BETTER you'd be doing had you sacrificed your life for a few years in service to your nation. Hell - even a few years in the Peace Corps would have done a lot to un-stick your head from your ass.


Any who desires a military career is welcome to do so. But it should never been jammed down anyone's throat. Not every is cut out to be a member of the military.

That's NEVER happened. Nobody gets the military JAMMED down their throat. Stop it. And I believe EVERYONE who is physically and mentally well IS cut out to be a member of the Military in some capacity.


Many of the vets on this board believe they are more important than anyone else. Sorry dudes, you're not. My job is just as vital as yours. My mom's job was just as vital as yours. My husband's job is just as vital as yours.


That's your desire to feel special. A few years ago somebody on this board said something like "A Veteran is measurably better a person for having served than those who can or would not serve". It's a simple fact. Nobody is the same. Just by claiming you're special doesn't mean you are. Any veteran on this board who has honorably served has to a very real part of their character 'betterness' than to folks (ESPECIALLY) like you. Your job is NOT as vital - hell, your job isn't vital at all. We have TOO MANY 'educated' hacks influencing our kids as it is. Get over it. You probably aren't too old to enlist, Gabs...that'd provide SOME salvation for you. Serve a couple years in one of the services. That's the only way you would be able to put yourself on the same level as any veteran on this board, or in this nation.



But feel free to carry on with your arrogant piss takes. Especially if they make you feel better about yourselves.

That's rich.

[Kathianne]

Exactly. So work on the plan. You can choose your employer later. And you should always be free to change your mind.

Thus informing the kids about the possibilities in the military is not only justified, but really required. Not all will get into Ivy's or Military academies. I'd say the same for the culinary arts, beauty schools, auto mechanics, etc.

[Gaffer]

I have to spread the rep around before giving it to DMP again. You didn't even touch on the educational benefits available through the military and VA.

[theHawk]

Having done both college and the military, I'd have to say from what I have seen the military is a far better path in life than just college. Everyone I know from the military has a very nice job now. Alot of other people I know who only have a college education are having a real hard time in this economy. Technicial training and hands on experience is always more desired than just having a degree.

[NightTrain]

But feel free to carry on with your arrogant piss takes. Especially if they make you feel better about yourselves.

And with that zinger, Gabosaurus scuttled off to Democrat Land, where she was welcomed as a hero.

http://www.picvault.info/images/537093364_fail-owned-baboon-win.jpg

[gabosaurus]

That's your desire to feel special. A few years ago somebody on this board said something like "A Veteran is measurably better a person for having served than those who can or would not serve". It's a simple fact. Nobody is the same. Just by claiming you're special doesn't mean you are. Any veteran on this board who has honorably served has to a very real part of their character 'betterness' than to folks (ESPECIALLY) like you. Your job is NOT as vital - hell, your job isn't vital at all. We have TOO MANY 'educated' hacks influencing our kids as it is. Get over it. You probably aren't too old to enlist, Gabs...that'd provide SOME salvation for you. Serve a couple years in one of the services. That's the only way you would be able to put yourself on the same level as any veteran on this board, or in this nation.

Wow, such worthless, condescending bullshit I have rarely heard. Though I would expect it here.
First of all, let me state that there is NOTHING I could learn in the military. I am well prepared for my chosen occupation. What else do I need to learn? I know how to fire a weapon. I don't need to know how to repair a military vehicle.
I will lift a few words from your statement that apply to you as much (or more) as me:
"Just by claiming you're special doesn't mean you are."
Tell me why YOUR job is vital. We have too many uneducated hacks trying to influence our kids as it is.
You want to influence our kids? Become an educator. Start at the ground floor and instill the values that many parents are too busy (or too lazy) to impart at home.


And I believe EVERYONE who is physically and mentally well IS cut out to be a member of the Military in some capacity.

As a counselor, I have talked to many kids who desire military careers. Never attempted to talk any of them out of it. The military is a great career for some people. To others, it is not.
Whatever happened to the military wanting the best and the brightest? If that is still the case, you don't want some of the kids out there now. You would be surprised at how many kids think the military is a free ride. These kids are lazy, unfit and undisciplined. No way they would ever make it through basic training.
We have seen kids who haven't. They go to basic training with grandiose ideas and little idea what is required. They return beaten down mentally and physically, because they are unable to make the grade.
I tell kids what they need to enter the military -- strength, determination, independence and discipline. You need to possess loyalty and courage. The military is for a select group of people who have what it takes. It's not for everyone.


Soldiers ARE teachers. Soldiers Educate better than any professor in any classroom. Soldiers are Doctors. Soldiers Doctor better than any resident in any ER. Soldiers are Attorneys - who fight for justice. Soldiers are Pastors, who lead folks to deeper understandings of Faith and service. Soldiers are Police - who respond to and care for those in emergencies.
Educators are the same thing. Only we do these things with kids. You wouldn't know because you have never been here. Your constant attempt to degrade our profession is nauseating and un-American. You should feel ashamed of yourself as a citizen.


But none of your degrees has made you a better person. Had you sacrificed ONE THING in your life besides your time, you'd BE a better person. You are an educated idiot gabs. What have you done two shits worth of work to make your country a better place? Imagine, if you can, how much BETTER you'd be doing had you sacrificed your life for a few years in service to your nation. Hell - even a few years in the Peace Corps would have done a lot to un-stick your head from your ass.

If the military makes you a better person, why are so many DP vets so pompous and condescending? There is nothing that distinguishes you from others who work to make a living. Statements like the one above make you look like an uneducated idiot.
You want to REALLY make your country a better place to live? Go work for a couple of years in an inner city school. Spend some serious time with kids who come from broken home. Venture out of your nifty, comfortable home and send a few hours trying to keep kids out of gangs. Try convincing a few gang kids to give up their guns instead of giving guns to them.


Kids are subject to a barrage of career fields during HS. Again, NONE more noble than being a Soldier.

This is YOUR opinion. I have equal respect for police, firefighters, medical personnel, first responders and, yes, educators. Everyone has a job to do. Just because you chose the military doesn't make your profession more glorious than the rest.

I see a fair amount of kids who want to join the military. I wish recruiters would tell them the truth about what it entails, instead of merely trying to meet quotas. Yes, it is extremely difficult. Yes, you will likely be sent to an active battlefield (many recruits try to downplay this).
At the same time, I met girls who want to become strippers. I met guys who want to become rappers. They want easy money for not much effort. You have to talk sense to these people. It is the same for everyone.


I am never wrong without admitting it.

Total bullshit. Stop it.

[DragonStryk72]

Well schools are PUBLICLY funded just like the military is PUBLICLY funded!!!

There is NO REASON the military should not have access to high school students academic records. If your opposed to this practice you can opt out it has been standard for a long time..

I for one would rather have EDUCATED military personnel. How about you??

Why do you feel the military should not have access??? What would be your reason for them to not have the opportunity. Should we also limit the colleges ability to access the same information I mean after all these kids should only be concentrating on their grades and doing a good job, and not having to worry about tomorrow or anything!!!!

Sorry, gotta go with gabs here, Nuke. The Military has no reason to have access, anymore than the military has the right to access your personal dmv files, your social security file, or your criminal records. The military has no REASON to have those. It's a matter of 4th Amendment, you know, that right to privacy I helped to fight for when I entered the Navy? It protects everyone, or what I fought for was bullshit, so which is it?


As a counselor, I have talked to many kids who desire military careers. Never attempted to talk any of them out of it. The military is a great career for some people. To others, it is not.
Whatever happened to the military wanting the best and the brightest? If that is still the case, you don't want some of the kids out there now. You would be surprised at how many kids think the military is a free ride. These kids are lazy, unfit and undisciplined. No way they would ever make it through basic training.
We have seen kids who haven't. They go to basic training with grandiose ideas and little idea what is required. They return beaten down mentally and physically, because they are unable to make the grade.
I tell kids what they need to enter the military -- strength, determination, independence and discipline. You need to possess loyalty and courage. The military is for a select group of people who have what it takes. It's not for everyone.

Now, I do have a counterpoint to this. There were plenty of kids like the ones you mentioned in my boot camp division, and a number of them ended up going on to really great careers. For some, it does become a lifestyle, that one thing that brings it together for them.

Being a vet has not yet made me a pompous ass, but I do understand your point. There have been plenty of great men and women both within and outside of the military. There is nobility in serving to defend your country, but attempting to use that service as evidence of being better than others simply demeans the service.

[SassyLady]

First:

This is a typical example of what happens when the government is in control. Once you are "owned" by the government, you are "OWNED". The government feels that if they are funding the school, then the students owe them............to at least listen to their spiel about career opporunities they offer. At this time, I think the military is the only goverment job that gives employees (soldiers, sailors, airmen, etc.) incentives or bonuses to sign up. Does the government recruit teachers as actively as they recruit for the military? No. I guess if any other organization spent as much money on the schools as the government does, then they too, would want access to the records of the students.

Second:

I agree with Gabby when she says the military isn't for everyone. It isn't. However, I don't see any other career that CAN take misfits and turn them into productive citizens with great values. My husband was a high school drop out who got married young and had a child. He was one of those that decided to sign up for the military because he saw it as something to do because he was bored with his life. During basic training he had appendicitis five weeks into the training and they removed his appendix. He had to go home to heal. But something in those five weeks clicked for him and the minute he healed, he went back to complete his training. However, he had to start from scratch - day one, not week six.

Today, 30 years later........he is at the top of his profession. He has several degrees and is the best husband and father one could expect. Where would he be today if he had not talked to a recruiter? Probably still growing pot and attending anti-war rallies like the rest of the pot generation.

So, you are right Gabby.......the military isn't for everyone. It certainly isn't for the elistists of this country.......because they would have to learn some common sense and not just living out their lives on ideology. If more people served in the military, we certainly wouldn't have so much leftist, marxist radicalism permeating everything.

And lastly, you DID imply that the military was not a "good job" by stating that kids needed to focus on getting a good job rather than talking to a military recruiter. Don't try to weasel your way out of it now. I wouldn't go so far as to call you an "elitist bitch", however, I will say that you do have a tendency to put your foot in your mouth when it comes to the military.