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LiberalNation
04-16-2007, 03:05 PM
Not good, Afghanistan the rarely talked about war is far from finsished.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/afghan_civilians_dc;_ylt=Ar7SAzqe0W_Dv2ZHlRvl6_gDW 7oF

KABUL (Reuters) - As the bloodshed in Afghanistan worsens, the Taliban are increasingly targeting civilians, the New York-based Human Rights Watch said in a new report on Monday.

The group accuses the Taliban and other insurgents of war crimes in its latest report, "The Human Cost."

"Suicide bombings and other insurgent attacks have risen dramatically since 2005, with almost 700 civilians dying last year at the hands of the Taliban and other insurgent groups," Human Rights Watch terrorism and counter-terrorism director Joanne Mariner said in a statement.

"The insurgents are increasingly committing war crimes, often by directly targeting civilians. Even when they're aiming at military targets, insurgent attacks are often so indiscriminate that Afghan civilians end up as the main victims."

NATO says several hundred civilians have already died this year. Last year, more than 4,000 people died in fighting. Afghan officials say about a quarter of them were civilians.

But Human Rights Watch says while about 900 were killed by foreign, Afghan and militant forces, another 300-400 deaths could not be positively attributed to either side.

FOREIGN TROOPS ALSO UNDER FIRE

The latest Human Rights Watch report focuses on civilians deaths caused by militants. But a previous report by the group was also critical of foreign troops over civilian casualties.

On Saturday, Afghanistan's Independent Human Rights Commission issued a report saying U.S. Marines had broken the law when they killed several civilians in apparently indiscriminate shooting in Jalalabad after their convoy was bombed.

The elite unit was recalled early just days later.

Human Rights Watch also cited figures showing an increase in suicide bombings in 2006 from 21 to almost 140, saying the overwhelming number of victims were civilians although the targets were mainly military.

"Suicide attacks killed eight times as many civilians as combatants," it said.

"I passed the cart and a few seconds later the bomb exploded," the report quoted Kabul resident and 2006 bomb victim Mohammad Yusef Aresh saying. "It was like an earthquake.

"I woke up and I saw people and body parts everywhere: fingers, hands, feet, toes. People were screaming.

WHITE SUIT STAINED RED

"I was wearing a white suit that day and I saw my suit was red. I can't walk fast now. You know, I was a boxer. I can't box any more.

"When I think about these things, it brings tears to my eyes. When I think about these things and put them together it makes me want to leave this country."

Frustrated by the failure of President Hamid Karzai and his Western backers to bring peace, and increasingly angry at the lack of jobs and reconstruction despite billions of dollars in aid, many Afghans are growing ever more disillusioned, analysts and ordinary people say.

Despite abuses by the Taliban, rural Afghans with no income are turning to the insurgents, who pay more than many formal jobs, including the police force, they say.

In its report, Human Rights Watch also urged Pakistan, the Taliban's former backers, to do more to secure the border. The Taliban, drug-runners and criminals easily slip across the porous and rugged frontier.

Afghanistan and its foreign allies say the Taliban, who draw their support from ethnic Pashtuns on both sides of the border, have been bolstered by the ability to shelter and train in Pakistan.

Pakistan denies any formal support for the Taliban, says it is doing all it can to seal the border and insists the main problem lies inside Afghanistan.

theHawk
04-16-2007, 03:22 PM
Screw the nation building crap. Nuke em all and reclaim it as the 51st state.

LiberalNation
04-16-2007, 03:44 PM
Not possible unless you want people to start lobbing nukes at us. The world would not stand for it.

besides who wants shit hole Afghanistan as a state especially after it's turned into a radioactive waste land.

Samantha
04-16-2007, 03:53 PM
If only the neocons in the Bush admin weren't so eager to invade Iraq for no good reason (they had to set up the Iraq Group and the Office of Special Plans to fix the intel around the policy in order to do it) perhaps the best military in the world could have prevailed in the war in Afghanistan.

Bush and co got greedy.

Now both wars are fucked.

theHawk
04-16-2007, 04:03 PM
Not possible unless you want people to start lobbing nukes at us. The world would not stand for it.

besides who wants shit hole Afghanistan as a state especially after it's turned into a radioactive waste land.

Who would start "lobbing nukes" at us? Most nations on this planet aren't as stupid as the former Taliban.

"The World" can't do more than write a nasty letter for all thats happened in Darfur.


"The world would not stand for it" lmao.

theHawk
04-16-2007, 04:06 PM
If only the neocons in the Bush admin weren't so eager to invade Iraq for no good reason (they had to set up the Iraq Group and the Office of Special Plans to fix the intel around the policy in order to do it) perhaps the best military in the world could have prevailed in the war in Afghanistan.

Bush and co got greedy.

Now both wars are fucked.

We can "win" both wars easily. If we just grew the balls to do it.

LiberalNation
04-16-2007, 04:10 PM
"The world would not stand for it" lmao.

It would alianate us from the rest of the world. In these global times that could sank us. We would be seen as worse than the worst terrorists or countries. I don't see how in the world you honestly think it would be a good idea and to Americas advantage.

LiberalNation
04-16-2007, 04:11 PM
Oh and the reason for Dafur, no one cares about them enough to stop it but that's Africa for you and the UN.

The US however matters.

avatar4321
04-16-2007, 04:16 PM
If only the neocons in the Bush admin weren't so eager to invade Iraq for no good reason (they had to set up the Iraq Group and the Office of Special Plans to fix the intel around the policy in order to do it) perhaps the best military in the world could have prevailed in the war in Afghanistan.

Bush and co got greedy.

Now both wars are fucked.

We had half a dozen good reasons for invading Iraq and deposing Saddam. You guys might not like to admit it, but they were and still are valid. And since you refuse to even acknowledge them its a safe bet you dont know how to respond to them.

The military did prevail in Aghanistan. But then if we left things to the left Saddam and the Taliban would still be in power and their targeting of civilians would be far more widespread.

theHawk
04-16-2007, 04:27 PM
It would alianate us from the rest of the world. In these global times that could sank us. We would be seen as worse than the worst terrorists or countries. I don't see how in the world you honestly think it would be a good idea and to Americas advantage.

LMAO, what are they going to do? Stop taking our money in trade for all the crap we import? Please. :slap:

LiberalNation
04-16-2007, 04:32 PM
You'd be surprised. Destroying a whole country and causing a nuclear disaster would elicit strong responses. It would take a lot of nukes too.

Samantha
04-16-2007, 04:33 PM
We can "win" both wars easily. If we just grew the balls to do it.
So you are implying that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Republican House/Republican Senate didn't have the balls for the past 5 years?

We are three months into the Democratic congress. We didn't start losing these wars three months ago.

LiberalNation
04-16-2007, 04:34 PM
Also remember Afghanistan is next to Pakistan and India who have nukes and would not take the fall out that would hit them kindly from such a large strike. Also factor in Russia who wouldn't like something like that taking place so closed to them.

Samantha
04-16-2007, 04:36 PM
We had half a dozen good reasons for invading Iraq and deposing Saddam. You guys might not like to admit it, but they were and still are valid. And since you refuse to even acknowledge them its a safe bet you dont know how to respond to them.

The military did prevail in Aghanistan. But then if we left things to the left Saddam and the Taliban would still be in power and their targeting of civilians would be far more widespread.

We had half a dozen lies for invading Iraq. Zero good reasons.

If the military prevailed in Afghanistan, why are we still there fighting the Taleban and Al Qaeda who are regaining strength?

Gunny
04-16-2007, 05:10 PM
Not possible unless you want people to start lobbing nukes at us. The world would not stand for it.

besides who wants shit hole Afghanistan as a state especially after it's turned into a radioactive waste land.

"The world" wouldn't do shit about it. The only nations that would try to lob nukes at us would be ones that have nukes if we lobbed them at them. They ma talk shit, but they aren't going to do anything to intercede on behalf of a backwards-assed hole like Afghanistan.

Your second point is valid. Who wants shit hole Afghanistan as a state even if doesn't glow? Might cut down on the overhead of importing the world's largest opium crop though .......

Gaffer
04-16-2007, 05:45 PM
We had half a dozen lies for invading Iraq. Zero good reasons.

If the military prevailed in Afghanistan, why are we still there fighting the Taleban and Al Qaeda who are regaining strength?

The only problem with afganhistan is that we haven't gone into pakistan, where bin laden is and where the al queda and taliban are setting up their bases and striking from. western pakistan needs to be taken out the same way we did afgan.

We need to tell masharif, either get troops in there and clean it out or we'll do it for you. Afganhistan will never be secure until that's done.

Dilloduck
04-16-2007, 05:50 PM
The only problem with afganhistan is that we haven't gone into pakistan, where bin laden is and where the al queda and taliban are setting up their bases and striking from. western pakistan needs to be taken out the same way we did afgan.

We need to tell masharif, either get troops in there and clean it out or we'll do it for you. Afganhistan will never be secure until that's done.

Until we can get Americans to agree on a path of action we're screwed.

Gunny
04-16-2007, 05:51 PM
We had half a dozen lies for invading Iraq. Zero good reasons.

If the military prevailed in Afghanistan, why are we still there fighting the Taleban and Al Qaeda who are regaining strength?

You would be incorrect in your first assertion.

The military prevailed as much as the military is going to. The best anyone can hope for is to keep these nutjobs pinned up in caves and hiding in the hills. That's reality.

Don't want to do it? Tht's what they're hoping too.

avatar4321
04-17-2007, 02:29 AM
We had half a dozen lies for invading Iraq. Zero good reasons.

If the military prevailed in Afghanistan, why are we still there fighting the Taleban and Al Qaeda who are regaining strength?

Talk is cheap. It's not a coincidence the left doesnt articulate any of the so called "lies". They just repeat, repeat, repeat, and think that makes it true.

Gunny
04-17-2007, 06:30 AM
Talk is cheap. It's not a coincidence the left doesnt articulate any of the so called "lies". They just repeat, repeat, repeat, and think that makes it true.

I love the standards lefties hold the Bush Administration and anyone who agrees with it on a topic to.

Picture US military forces going through western Afghanistan like Sherman rolled through Georgia and not stopping at the border of Pakistan, and just wiping out everything in site.

After the lefties picked their jaws up off the floor and cleaned the mess in their pants, the collective wailing and gnashing of teeth could be heard on the moon.

The Taliban is being kept hiding in the hills and caves and a neighboring country. That's as opposed to controlling the government and a nation as it once did.

Not good enough.

So long as ONE, single member of the Taliban breathes, the mission was a failure and it's Bush's fault.

Absurd.

theHawk
04-17-2007, 08:15 AM
So you are implying that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Republican House/Republican Senate didn't have the balls for the past 5 years?

Yes, I've been saying that for years now.