View Full Version : Morals,
Does your religion make your morals, or do your morals make your religion?
PostmodernProphet
10-24-2009, 07:00 AM
the framework for morality in the Christian religion is the Ten Commandments, so I would have to say the religion makes the morals.......it must suck to have to make up your own framework as well as try to follow it.......
the framework for morality in the Christian religion is the Ten Commandments, so I would have to say the religion makes the morals.......it must suck to have to make up your own framework as well as try to follow it.......
Indeedy,
But the bible says many many things, yet you do not listen to them all, why do you pick the ten commandments over other things that God says in the bible? Surly by chosing aspects of the bible to mean more than others you are using your morals to make the religion.
Pericles
10-24-2009, 07:44 AM
Indeedy,
But the bible says many many things, yet you do not listen to them all, why do you pick the ten commandments over other things that God says in the bible? Surly by chosing aspects of the bible to mean more than others you are using your morals to make the religion.
Very good point...!
Moral sensibilities, I might add, also unmake religion - as evolving moral sentiments make necessary revised conceptions of the moral character of the godhead - the transition from the fire-breathing Jehovah of the O.T. to Jesus meek and mild of the N.T., being a case in point. God is made in our image.
And say, great signature! HE is a prophet, if there ever was one!
PostmodernProphet
10-24-2009, 04:50 PM
Indeedy,
But the bible says many many things, yet you do not listen to them all, why do you pick the ten commandments over other things that God says in the bible? Surly by chosing aspects of the bible to mean more than others you are using your morals to make the religion.
I assume you are referring to the Levitical codes?.....they served a different purpose which was defined in the Scriptures, a purpose which was made moot when Jesus Christ made his sacrifice on the cross.....
Christ himself tells us to continue to follow the Ten Commandments as a guide for living our lives.....so I'm not the one "picking" them, God is......
PostmodernProphet
10-24-2009, 04:52 PM
God is made in our image.
!
did you do a good job?.....I don't trust my god-building skills so I went with a "free range" deity......
I assume you are referring to the Levitical codes?.....they served a different purpose which was defined in the Scriptures, a purpose which was made moot when Jesus Christ made his sacrifice on the cross.....
Christ himself tells us to continue to follow the Ten Commandments as a guide for living our lives.....so I'm not the one "picking" them, God is......
I wasn't thinking of anything really, i was just thinking in general, though i shall look up these Levititcal codes as you have mentioned them,
but following on...you thus take the 10 commandments to be the most important part of a christains morals, so, do you find it acceptable that homosexuals may get married? If you have a moral objection to such an event, does the moral arise from the 10 commandments, or another part of the bible?
PostmodernProphet
10-24-2009, 10:46 PM
I have an objection to someone demanding that society change it's definition of marriage to accomodate their lifestyle choices.....I don't think that's a "moral" objection, do you?........
I'm not even sure what a 'moral' objection is.....I have my morals, you have yours......your's may suck but that's your choice.....now, if you insist that I change my views to treat your choices as good choices I have a problem with that.....is that a "moral objection"?......
I have an objection to someone demanding that society change it's definition of marriage to accomodate their lifestyle choices.....I don't think that's a "moral" objection, do you?........
I'm not even sure what a 'moral' objection is.....I have my morals, you have yours......your's may suck but that's your choice.....now, if you insist that I change my views to treat your choices as good choices I have a problem with that.....is that a "moral objection"?......
So it is merely the act of changing a long standing definition, and not the idea of two men or women being married under god which makes you anti-gay marriage?
avatar4321
10-25-2009, 12:09 AM
So it is merely the act of changing a long standing definition, and not the idea of two men or women being married under god which makes you anti-gay marriage?
I object to calling dogs cats and calling circles squares too. Does that mean i hate dogs? or hate cats? or circles? or squares?
Not a single person is stopping them from entering into committed relationships with each other. But that doesnt mean we have to legally recognize it as a marriage.
The government does not recognize contracts that are not beneficial to society. Same sex relationships dont benefit society. And as unpolitically correct to say it, there is plenty of evidence to show it hurts society.
So why should we endorse this behavior? And more to the point, why should we be forced to endorse it when our nation is built on freedom and liberty from this very sort of tyranny?
I object to calling dogs cats and calling circles squares too. Does that mean i hate dogs? or hate cats? or circles? or squares?
No, it does not mean you hate them, but you must have a rational as to why you want to call them what they are not.
In the same way a christain may not hate gay people, but they have a thought process but there is a thought process which leads to them being excluded from marragie, but why not, say someone who has been divorced, why are they able to re-marry infront of god? Surly they have broken oaths that they made before God, and yet many Christains get re-married.
Not a single person is stopping them from entering into committed relationships with each other. But that doesnt mean we have to legally recognize it as a marriage.
Why not? Is this because of the morals you are getting from holy text?
The government does not recognize contracts that are not beneficial to society. Same sex relationships dont benefit society. And as unpolitically correct to say it, there is plenty of evidence to show it hurts society.
Oh i see...so the goverment decides if its benificail or not, first of, i'm surprised you support such Goverment interfernce in a citizens private life, and why then does the goverment recognize the contract of a women who gets married and divorced to a different man every year...is that judged to be beneficial to society? and if not then surly there should be a cap in how many marriages you can have.
So why should we endorse this behavior? And more to the point, why should we be forced to endorse it when our nation is built on freedom and liberty from this very sort of tyranny?
I can't help but find irony in the fact that you are using the arguement of 'freedom and liberty' and yet in the previous paragraph you said it was up for the goverment to decided what was benificail, and if it wasn't then such freedoms should not be allowed.
But the main point to my question still stands, why chose a specific part of any text, as right and other parts as wrong, surly we are thus influencing our religion by our own moral choices.
chloe
10-25-2009, 07:57 AM
Does your religion make your morals, or do your morals make your religion?
probably religion even though i don't have one now. Growing up in a religion laid a foundation for me.
PostmodernProphet
10-25-2009, 02:47 PM
So it is merely the act of changing a long standing definition, and not the idea of two men or women being married under god which makes you anti-gay marriage?
/shrugs...I would say that neither even comes close to what I said.....
PostmodernProphet
10-26-2009, 06:10 AM
i'm surprised you support such Goverment interfernce in a citizens private life
what you are missing is that liberals are in truth pushing for government interference with private life.....two men can have a relationship in private.....insisting that the government recognize that relationship and require society to treat it legally as the equivalent of "marriage" is the interference......
it is the promotion of that which is abnormal into that which is normal which is the problem, not the simple fact that someone in private chooses to engage in the abnormal......
liberals like to promote the cause of "what you do in the privacy of your own home is your own business"....so be it, but when did the county courthouse and registry of marriage become the privacy of your own home...
PostmodernProphet
10-26-2009, 06:13 AM
But the main point to my question still stands, why chose a specific part of any text, as right and other parts as wrong, surly we are thus influencing our religion by our own moral choices.
have you noticed yet that I have not referenced a single text or religious principle in making my argument?......why do you keep trying to turn this into a religious issue?.....
what you are missing is that liberals are in truth pushing for government interference with private life.....two men can have a relationship in private.....insisting that the government recognize that relationship and require society to treat it legally as the equivalent of "marriage" is the interference......
it is the promotion of that which is abnormal into that which is normal which is the problem, not the simple fact that someone in private chooses to engage in the abnormal......
liberals like to promote the cause of "what you do in the privacy of your own home is your own business"....so be it, but when did the county courthouse and registry of marriage become the privacy of your own home...
Well i guess that comes down to what you consider normal, why would you not consider a homosexual normal?
Religion per chance?
have you noticed yet that I have not referenced a single text or religious principle in making my argument?......why do you keep trying to turn this into a religious issue?.....
Well you have refernced the 10 comandments and said that "religion makes the morals"
...also why do you think i am 'turning' this into a religious issue? My original question was "Does your religion make your morals, or do your morals make your religion?" So this has been a religious issue from the start.
Gaffer
10-26-2009, 02:21 PM
Well i guess that comes down to what you consider normal, why would you not consider a homosexual normal?
Religion per chance?
How about, it's unnatural. The whole purpose of sex is for reproduction.
How about, it's unnatural. The whole purpose of sex is for reproduction.
Indeedy, if you follow such a line then is it natural to have sex except for when you want a baby?
bullypulpit
10-26-2009, 05:10 PM
Morality is not dependent upon religion.
Kathianne
10-26-2009, 05:12 PM
Morality is not dependent upon religion.
But much easier to explain and inculcate. The later not being 'evil' in and of itself.
PostmodernProphet
10-26-2009, 05:39 PM
Well i guess that comes down to what you consider normal, why would you not consider a homosexual normal?
Religion per chance?
you certainly have a one track mind.....
biology is enough to tell me that homosexuality is abnormal.....
PostmodernProphet
10-26-2009, 05:41 PM
Well you have refernced the 10 comandments and said that "religion makes the morals"
...also why do you think i am 'turning' this into a religious issue? My original question was "Does your religion make your morals, or do your morals make your religion?" So this has been a religious issue from the start.
ah, but then you chose to change the topic from "morals" to "homosexuality".....
PostmodernProphet
10-26-2009, 05:43 PM
Well you have refernced the 10 comandments and said that "religion makes the morals"
.
and for me it does....though, if you re-read my answer you will note that I mentioned those who would have to make up their own framework.....that presumed there would be those for whom religion did NOT make the framework for morality.....
PostmodernProphet
10-26-2009, 05:44 PM
But much easier to explain and inculcate. The later not being 'evil' in and of itself.
ah, but an atheist would consider religion evil in and of itself.....
PostmodernProphet
10-26-2009, 05:46 PM
Morality is not dependent upon religion.
obviously not...every person has their own moral structure......those who believe in a particular religion are likely to adapt the moral structure taught by that religion....
those that reject religious beliefs are going to have to develop their own moral structure.....
some obviously suck at it.....
ah, but then you chose to change the topic from "morals" to "homosexuality".....
But how can you discus moral issues without discussing issues of morality? I chose homosexuality as its a rather hot topic between those who think it is moral and those who think it immoral,
and for me it does....though, if you re-read my answer you will note that I mentioned those who would have to make up their own framework.....that presumed there would be those for whom religion did NOT make the framework for morality.....
Indeedy, and thus you can live a moral life without religion.
PostmodernProphet
10-27-2009, 07:07 AM
But how can you discus moral issues without discussing issues of morality? I chose homosexuality as its a rather hot topic between those who think it is moral and those who think it immoral,
why is gay marriage a "moral" issue......a moral issue is a "right/wrong" personal choice.......changing the laws regarding marriage is a political issue, not a moral one.....
PostmodernProphet
10-27-2009, 07:08 AM
Indeedy, and thus you can live a moral life without religion.
never said you couldn't.....I did say it sucked that you have to both make up your own moral code and then work at keeping it.....I expect many don't spend a lot of time at it......
why is gay marriage a "moral" issue......a moral issue is a "right/wrong" personal choice.......changing the laws regarding marriage is a political issue, not a moral one.....
Well if it was morals that created the laws in the first place then i think you'd have quite a job seperating the two.
never said you couldn't.....I did say it sucked that you have to both make up your own moral code and then work at keeping it.....I expect many don't spend a lot of time at it......
Rather the opposite, i think that everyone makes up their own moral code, and that sometimes those who are religious believe their moral code to be higher than others, when ofcourse it is not.
Religious morals are also often used to show how religion is needed in our world, and without religion we would all be immoral, i am glad to see you do not think so, and thus we could all live just fine in a world without Gods, myths and legends.
PostmodernProphet
10-28-2009, 02:14 PM
sometimes those who are religious believe their moral code to be higher than others, when ofcourse it is not.
depends....was Mother Theresa's moral code higher than Stalin's?......
PostmodernProphet
10-28-2009, 02:16 PM
and thus we could all live just fine in a world without Gods, myths and legends.
well, first of all there's the issue of "common grace".....a world without God would probably suck....be that as it may, the real test for being with or without God doesn't begin until AFTER we get done living in this world.....
PostmodernProphet
10-28-2009, 02:17 PM
Well if it was morals that created the laws in the first place then i think you'd have quite a job seperating the two.
???...if you're still talking about "marriage", the concept was in place long before there were "laws" dealing with it.....
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