View Full Version : Meat is MURDER
Amazing man, Amazing song, enjoy.
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Monkeybone
10-27-2009, 07:03 AM
Yes meat is MURDER. Tasty tasty murder.. mmmmm....
Yes meat is MURDER. Tasty tasty murder.. mmmmm....
I assume you have no pets?
Also, its so tasty that you have to had the meat refined, removing its veins ect, and you can't eat it raw, it has to be cooked, and in most cases seasoned, must be sooooo tastey
MMMMMM.......MEAT!!!!!
I have two dogs. You never know when there might be a major catastrophe and meat will be hard to get!
MtnBiker
10-27-2009, 07:56 AM
I have 2 dog, guess what they eat?
Yup that's right, meat. Those murdering, souless bastards.
MMMMMM.......MEAT!!!!!
I have two dogs. You never know when there might be a major catastrophe and meat will be hard to get!
Obvious troll is obvious,
How you could even joke about something so sick is beond me.
I have 2 dog, guess what they eat?
Yup that's right, meat. Those murdering, souless bastards.
Dogs do not have a choice, you do.
MtnBiker
10-27-2009, 08:10 AM
People can feed vegetarian dog food to dogs, google vegetarian dog food some time.
However my female dog will not eat anything that didn't have parents.
Indeed, it seems pretty obvious but I had never thought of such dog foods,
but no matter, it still remains that you have full knowledge of what you are supporting when you chose to buy any meats, and that is the act of murder.
stephanie
10-27-2009, 09:30 AM
humm, I wonder what are we suppose to do with all them cute Bambi's, bears and gators when they overpopulate the land..?
I guess we could just capture all the wild animals and give them birth control..or just start killing off the humans so the cute animals will have the place all to themselves..
but whatever we do, remember, meat is murder.
Trigg
10-27-2009, 11:38 AM
humm, I wonder what are we suppose to do with all them cute Bambi's, bears and gators when they overpopulate the land..?
I guess we could just capture all the wild animals and give them birth control..or just start killing off the humans so the cute animals will have the place all to themselves..
but whatever we do, remember, meat is murder.
Well before they could overpopulate, the bears and gators would be murdering Bambi for lunch. Those heartless bastards.
As for me, I think I'll make juicy hamburgers for dinner tonight.
Noir, we're omnivores, like it or not that's how we function the best. Vegetarians/vegans can sustain their diets with the help of vitamins. Stick them out on their own with none of that and they wouldn't be able to survive. Our bodies just aren't made to eat only salad.
AFbombloader
10-27-2009, 11:46 AM
Indeed, it seems pretty obvious but I had never thought of such dog foods,
but no matter, it still remains that you have full knowledge of what you are supporting when you chose to buy any meats, and that is the act of murder.
I may be picking at something small, but the definition of "murder" is killing a human being isn't it? Last I checked, cows aren't people.
AF
humm, I wonder what are we suppose to do with all them cute Bambi's, bears and gators when they overpopulate the land..?
I guess we could just capture all the wild animals and give them birth control..or just start killing off the humans so the cute animals will have the place all to themselves..
but whatever we do, remember, meat is murder.
Oh yeah...this is a clasic nugget 'over population'
Frist off, we bread most of the animals we eat specificly for eating, chickens, pigs, cows ect, there would be no issue of over running.
And secondly creatures like bears are dangerous, and ofcourse if a bear walks into a town or around some houses and is a risk to the life of the people there then it should be shot, as such animals are unpredictable.
However, that is no excuse for raising and murdering countless animals just so you can have your slab of flesh for dinner.
Trigg
10-27-2009, 11:55 AM
I assume you have no pets?
Also, its so tasty that you have to had the meat refined, removing its veins ect, and you can't eat it raw, it has to be cooked, and in most cases seasoned, must be sooooo tastey
You obviously never hunted and you've never gotten your meat from a local source. Otherwise you'd know that meat doesn't NEED to be refined and why on earth would you ever remove the veins??????????????
I also grew up on a farm where we raised our own rabbits, chickens and goats for food. My dad would skin them and mom would pop them in a cooker. Your video isn't an eye opener for me.
It's not murder it's the cycle of life.
Well before they could overpopulate, the bears and gators would be murdering Bambi for lunch. Those heartless bastards.
As for me, I think I'll make juicy hamburgers for dinner tonight.
Noir, we're omnivores, like it or not that's how we function the best. Vegetarians/vegans can sustain their diets with the help of vitamins. Stick them out on their own with none of that and they wouldn't be able to survive. Our bodies just aren't made to eat only salad.
As i have already said animals do not have the same choices we have, unless you like comparing your brain capacity to that of a bear.
Do enjoy the meat in your mouth as you savour the flavor of murder.
Yes we have the ability to eat meat, does that mean we should?
Also that is utter tosh as about "Vegetarians/vegans can sustain their diets with the help of vitamins." i am perfectly healthy and never take extra vitamins or what not, such talk is simply untrue.
Nukeman
10-27-2009, 12:00 PM
Oh yeah...this is a clasic nugget 'over population'
Frist off, we bread most of the animals we eat specificly for eating, chickens, pigs, cows ect, there would be no issue of over running.
And secondly creatures like bears are dangerous, and ofcourse if a bear walks into a town or around some houses and is a risk to the life of the people there then it should be shot, as such animals are unpredictable.
However, that is no excuse for raising and murdering countless animals just so you can have your slab of flesh for dinner.
Here's how I look at it.
I Don't tell you that killing those vegtibles is a bad thing, (yes fruites and vegies are alive when they are picked).
Why is it that a vegan will rail against an omnivour (which is our nature and how our bodies work, as Trigg pointed out without supplements your body would not be able to maintain a vegan lifestyle) yet refuses to see that they are also killing something essentialy alive for their food needs.. Plants are alive are they not??? At What level of conscienceness do we draw the line???
Everything that is consumed by another living breathing entity was alive at some other time.... Where in the line drawn????
I may be picking at something small, but the definition of "murder" is killing a human being isn't it? Last I checked, cows aren't people.
AF
Legally yes you are correct, but you understand the sprit and meaning of what i am saying, and not the technicalities of specific definitions,
Nukeman
10-27-2009, 12:03 PM
As i have already said animals do not have the same choices we have, unless you like comparing your brain capacity to that of a bear.
Do enjoy the meat in your mouth as you savour the flavor of murder.
Yes we have the ability to eat meat, does that mean we should?
Also that is utter tosh as about "Vegetarians/vegans can sustain their diets with the help of vitamins." i am perfectly healthy and never take extra vitamins or what not, such talk is simply untrue.
What about this??
The purist vegetarian-diet is totally unsuitable for a long-term diet, however, because it deprives the body of essential nutrients available only from meat and animal products.
These nutritional deficiencies pose potentially deadly consequences to long-term health.
Vegans can not get the important vitamin B12 simply because it can only be found in animal products, especially eggs, fish, red meat and organ meats. Besides anemia, a deficiency in vitamin B12 can cause fatigue and neurological disorders.
Many may not agree with this but the fact remains that the longest- lived peoples on earth have all been meat-eaters.
Use common sense with the Vegetarian-Diet.
You obviously never hunted and you've never gotten your meat from a local source. Otherwise you'd know that meat doesn't NEED to be refined and why on earth would you ever remove the veins??????????????
I also grew up on a farm where we raised our own rabbits, chickens and goats for food. My dad would skin them and mom would pop them in a cooker. Your video isn't an eye opener for me.
It's not murder it's the cycle of life.
No i have never hunted, and never will.
Can you honestly think about what you are doing for a second? Does the very idea of eating an animals flesh, vein and all, not make you sick?
You grew up in a house of murder, what right have you to skin these creatures and eat them? Just because they can't defend themselves? Just because you feel peckish?
It is Murder, you do not need to kill these animals and yet you chose to do so,
Trigg
10-27-2009, 12:10 PM
As i have already said animals do not have the same choices we have, unless you like comparing your brain capacity to that of a bear.
Do enjoy the meat in your mouth as you savour the flavor of murder.
Yes we have the ability to eat meat, does that mean we should?
Also that is utter tosh as about "Vegetarians/vegans can sustain their diets with the help of vitamins." i am perfectly healthy and never take extra vitamins or what not, such talk is simply untrue.
You wanna live your life as a vegetarian, have at it.
Your not going to convince anyone here that it's murder, so have a tofu burger and relax.
What is it with liberals crying and jumping up and down like children whenever people don't agree with them????? I'M RIGHT, I'M RIGHT YOU HAVE TO CHANGE. geez, have a beer :beer:
Here's how I look at it.
I Don't tell you that killing those vegtibles is a bad thing, (yes fruites and vegies are alive when they are picked).
Why is it that a vegan will rail against an omnivour (which is our nature and how our bodies work, as Trigg pointed out without supplements your body would not be able to maintain a vegan lifestyle) yet refuses to see that they are also killing something essentialy alive for their food needs.. Plants are alive are they not??? At What level of conscienceness do we draw the line???
Everything that is consumed by another living breathing entity was alive at some other time.... Where in the line drawn????
You are now comparing an animal and a plant? I know you know better than that so why do you even utter it?
A much more reasonable comparision to make is that of a baby cow and that of a baby human, now you tell me why you would murder and eat one but not the other.
Trigg
10-27-2009, 12:15 PM
You are now comparing an animal and a plant? I know you know better than that so why do you even utter it?
A much more reasonable comparisons to make is that of a baby cow and that of a baby human, now you tell me why you would murder and eat one but not the other.
:lame2:
careful you'll be put into the same category as some of the other loonies on this board with comparisons like that.
Nukeman
10-27-2009, 12:16 PM
No i have never hunted, and never will.
Can you honestly think about what you are doing for a second? Does the very idea of eating an animals flesh, vein and all, not make you sick?
You grew up in a house of murder, what right have you to skin these creatures and eat them? Just because they can't defend themselves? Just because you feel peckish?
It is Murder, you do not need to kill these animals and yet you chose to do so,
What right do YOU have to judge others.
What are the front two teeth in your mouth called (incisers) they are disigned for tearing flesh yes that right flesh. If we were to be vegitarians only, than our teeth would be just like a rodents or a cow's. We would eaither need to naw constantly to keep them filed down or they would be huge for grinding plants.
I seriously take exception with your saying someone was raised in a house of "murder" for eating meat.. It is how we are made and how we are to maintian our strength.
Can we go without meat?? Yes!! Permanetly?? NO. Your body will fail without B12 that you can not get from any other source!!! No it won't happen over night but it will happen eventually.
What about this??
What on earth? Vit B12...you mean the one you get in milk and breakfast cereals?
I get a good dose of B12 every morning
As for the 'longest living person' quip, such a point is daft, and you know it, like there are many more flesh eaters than there are veggies, so from the start theh results of such comparisins will be pointless, and also i did not become a veggie to live to be the oldest person ever, i did so to stop supporting the murder of innocent animals,
:lame2:
careful you'll be put into the same category as some of the other loonies on this board with comparisons like that.
As apose to Nukemans claim?
Honestly out of the following two options which would you say are more alike eachother;
i) Cow - Human
or
ii) Cow - Carrot.
Nukeman
10-27-2009, 12:20 PM
You are now comparing an animal and a plant? I know you know better than that so why do you even utter it?
A much more reasonable comparision to make is that of a baby cow and that of a baby human, now you tell me why you would murder and eat one but not the other.
Why??????
Is a plant a living thing or not???? Yes or No?????
AS such why do you afford the value of living to a animal before a plant??
since I haven't had "baby" for dinner I will have to stick with the cow......
Ultimately YOU make YOUR choice on how you will live your life and others will do the same....
Now how would you feel if everyone else said to you that you HAVE to eat meat, you have no choice in the matter...??? How would yo feel???
You wanna live your life as a vegetarian, have at it.
Your not going to convince anyone here that it's murder, so have a tofu burger and relax.
What is it with liberals crying and jumping up and down like children whenever people don't agree with them????? I'M RIGHT, I'M RIGHT YOU HAVE TO CHANGE. geez, have a beer :beer:
I shall,
I don't eat tofu,
I'm not saying you have to change, and i know you won't, but i just can't help it when i hear people saying its OK to murder animals
and i don't drink alcohol,
Nukeman
10-27-2009, 12:21 PM
What on earth? Vit B12...you mean the one you get in milk and breakfast cereals?
I get a good dose of B12 every morning
As for the 'longest living person' quip, such a point is daft, and you know it, like there are many more flesh eaters than there are veggies, so from the start theh results of such comparisins will be pointless, and also i did not become a veggie to live to be the oldest person ever, i did so to stop supporting the murder of innocent animals,
Thats vit D
B12 is not in milk.. Besides how can yo drink milk since it is produced in the living cow......????
What right do YOU have to judge others.
What are the front two teeth in your mouth called (incisers) they are disigned for tearing flesh yes that right flesh. If we were to be vegitarians only, than our teeth would be just like a rodents or a cow's. We would eaither need to naw constantly to keep them filed down or they would be huge for grinding plants.
I seriously take exception with your saying someone was raised in a house of "murder" for eating meat.. It is how we are made and how we are to maintian our strength.
Can we go without meat?? Yes!! Permanetly?? NO. Your body will fail without B12 that you can not get from any other source!!! No it won't happen over night but it will happen eventually.
What right do i ahve to judge others?...well if i knew someone stole somthing i call them a thief, if i knew someone raped someone i'd call them a rapist, if i know someone supports the murder of animals and eats their flesh i call them a murderer,
Yes as i said we can eat meat, and in the past we had to, just to live, but we now live in an age were we do not need to, and yet we have set up these massive industrial slaughter houses.
Why do you take exception? They murdered aniamls to eat them, there's nothing more i need to add to that,
Did you not read my post? you get b12 from Milk and Fortified cerals (look at your boxes in the house!) there's also plently in eggs (and i think cheese aswell but i'm not certain about that)
Trigg
10-27-2009, 12:28 PM
I shall,
I don't eat tofu,
I'm not saying you have to change, and i know you won't, but i just can't help it when i hear people saying its OK to murder animals
and i don't drink alcohol,
well then don't start theads that start with "meat is murder". Then you won't have to listen to people tell you that meat is yummy and we like to eat it.
Killing animals for food is just fine with me, don't like it, don't ask.
Can you be Irish and not drink alcohol :eek:
Why??????
Is a plant a living thing or not???? Yes or No?????
AS such why do you afford the value of living to a animal before a plant??
since I haven't had "baby" for dinner I will have to stick with the cow......
Ultimately YOU make YOUR choice on how you will live your life and others will do the same....
Now how would you feel if everyone else said to you that you HAVE to eat meat, you have no choice in the matter...??? How would yo feel???
Yes it is, i think we both know the difference between a plant and an animal, but if you really wana be so purile then i point you to what i posted above
Honestly out of the following two options which would you say are more alike eachother;
i) Cow - Human
or
ii) Cow - Carrot.
So because you haven't had a baby...you don't want to start now?..implying that if you'd been brought up eating baby your whole life you wouldn't mind (Now ofcourse i know that you would mind, and that you would never eat a human, but if you are going to compare me eating veggies with meat it only stands to reason that i can say the same of you eating different types of meat)
I'm not saying you have to be a veggie, i think you should, but thats not the same, infact you're the one trying to tell me (on false medical grounds) that i can't not eat meat
Thats vit D
B12 is not in milk.. Besides how can yo drink milk since it is produced in the living cow......????
No its B12...i did have to look this stuff up you know when i became a veggie.
and i am not a vegan,
Nukeman
10-27-2009, 12:38 PM
What right do i ahve to judge others?...well if i knew someone stole somthing i call them a thief, if i knew someone raped someone i'd call them a rapist, if i know someone supports the murder of animals and eats their flesh i call them a murderer,
Well if we are talking about the rape of another human than you have a point. or if someone stole soemthing you have a point, but I believe it was established earlier that you can not MURDER an animal...
Is it murder when a Lion attacks a human and eats it, is it murder when hyenias attack and eat a child???
Yes as i said we can eat meat, and in the past we had to, just to live, but we now live in an age were we do not need to, and yet we have set up these massive industrial slaughter houses.
When was this majical time when we had to and when did that change to we DON'T??
Why do you take exception? They murdered aniamls to eat them, there's nothing more i need to add to that,
No they harvested the animals jsut like you harvest fruits and vegies!!!!
Did you not read my post? you get b12 from Milk and Fortified cerals (look at your boxes in the house!) there's also plently in eggs (and i think cheese aswell but i'm not certain about that) I was mistaken about the milk you get "some" but not your daily allowance. Fortified cerals??? Think about that word will you "fortified" if the Vit. were not placed in there they would not be there......
How can you eat eggs? after all that is an undeveloped chicken would you eat a human embryo??? how can you drink milk or eat cheese after all that comes from the living breathing cow we don't want to harm and if your taking their milk they have nothing to feed their young so in essence your starving the baby cow of the word for your milk and cheese??
well then don't start theads that start with "meat is murder". Then you won't have to listen to people tell you that meat is yummy and we like to eat it.
Killing animals for food is just fine with me, don't like it, don't ask.
Can you be Irish and not drink alcohol :eek:
I started this thread in the Music Forum, as it is one of my fav songs form a man who is currently quite ill, and then the 'MMMmm tastey muder comments sparked a small debate' if i wanted to have a serious discussion about this i would ahve posted it in the ethics forum and would have written an OP, not just dropped a video of a song.
I didn't ask, you came into this thread and stated talking about tastey burgers
Indeed you can, i hate drugs more still than i hate the idea of eating meat.
Monkeybone
10-27-2009, 12:45 PM
so if we didn't have slaughter houses and just hunted it is ok? since that is like gardening and the animals have a chance.
and yes i have pets.... what does that have to do with it?
MtnBiker
10-27-2009, 12:45 PM
Moved to ethics forum.
MtnBiker
10-27-2009, 12:46 PM
Noir, is your object to consuming meat come from the killing of the animal?
Monkeybone
10-27-2009, 12:50 PM
And by the way Noir, I did not intentionally mean to get your post off on this little personal choice rabbit trail.
Well if we are talking about the rape of another human than you have a point. or if someone stole soemthing you have a point, but I believe it was established earlier that you can not MURDER an animal...
Can you abuse another animal? Yes...can you torture another animal? Yes...can you murder another animal? Yes.
Is it murder when a Lion attacks a human and eats it, is it murder when hyenias attack and eat a child???
We have morals, animals do not, they have to kill to live, we do not...yet we chose to.
.
When was this majical time when we had to and when did that change to we DON'T??
Ofcourse i don't know a date, but that is not important, what is important is that it is clear now that we do not need to.
No they harvested the animals jsut like you harvest fruits and vegies!!!!
...thats exactly my point...and you see nothing wrong with that?
I was mistaken about the milk you get "some" but not your daily allowance. Fortified cerals??? Think about that word will you "fortified" if the Vit. were not placed in there they would not be there......
You talk of that which you know not, i know for a fact that 200ml of full fat milk is 90% of your daily required B12, and i can asure you i drink allot more than that in a day, not to mention cerals ect
How can you eat eggs? after all that is an undeveloped chicken would you eat a human embryo??? how can you drink milk or eat cheese after all that comes from the living breathing cow we don't want to harm and if your taking their milk they have nothing to feed their young so in essence your starving the baby cow of the word for your milk and cheese??
As i said i am not a vegan,
There is a case to be made for not eating eggs and drinking milk ect, however i do not think i could live a healthy life without milk/cheese/eggs ect and so I chose not to become vegan, however, i am living a very healthy veggie life, that you can not deny.
MtnBiker
10-27-2009, 12:57 PM
I started this thread in the Music Forum, as it is one of my fav songs form a man who is currently quite ill, and then the 'MMMmm tastey muder comments sparked a small debate' if i wanted to have a serious discussion about this i would ahve posted it in the ethics forum and would have written an OP, not just dropped a video of a song.
I didn't ask, you came into this thread and stated talking about tastey burgers
Indeed you can, i hate drugs more still than i hate the idea of eating meat.
Noir did start this in the Music Forum with just a video. However it has seemed to spark a good debate, so I moved to ethics forum.
Nukeman
10-27-2009, 12:59 PM
At the end of the day Noir. YOU can live your life the way you see fit and "decide" what you will and will not consume. I will do the same, I will not howeve call you "plant killer" or any other such nonsense. I would ask that you abstain from calling others "muderers" for eating meat. We are after all "omnivours" are we not??
We can all make our choices and we should not force our lifestyles onto others to make ourselves feel better..
so if we didn't have slaughter houses and just hunted it is ok? since that is like gardening and the animals have a chance.
and yes i have pets.... what does that have to do with it?
No hunting is not ok, its not about if the animals have a chance or not, its that we chose to murder them when we do not need to.
Slaughter houses are amazing constructs of just how horrid we humans are, designing factories were in just one building tens of thousands of creatures are murdered every day.
If you have pets then you surly feel an attachment to them, you can see that they have a personality and sprit, just like humans, as do all animals, surly you must consider that important when think about these animals getting slaughtered,
Noir, is your object to consuming meat come from the killing of the animal?
I see were you're going, as in 'if an animal died by natural causes...'
Personally i would not eat it, because i find the whole idea horrid, however i can understand why some would eat the meat of an animal that had died naturally, if they only objected to the murder of animals
MtnBiker
10-27-2009, 01:11 PM
No i have never hunted, and never will.
Can you honestly think about what you are doing for a second? Does the very idea of eating an animals flesh, vein and all, not make you sick?
You grew up in a house of murder, what right have you to skin these creatures and eat them? Just because they can't defend themselves? ,
Hmmm, interesting. I've hunted and killed animals and I have had discussions with people on defenseless animals. Claiming an animal as defenseless is a classic misunderstanding and misrepresentation of wild animals. It is true that most hunted wild animals are not offense and attack a human, however they are far from defenseless. An animal is it's natural environment has greater senses and awareness of it's surroundings then humans, it ability to detect and avoid danger make them quite defendable.
At the end of the day Noir. YOU can live your life the way you see fit and "decide" what you will and will not consume. I will do the same, I will not howeve call you "plant killer" or any other such nonsense. I would ask that you abstain from calling others "muderers" for eating meat. We are after all "omnivours" are we not??
We can all make our choices and we should not force our lifestyles onto others to make ourselves feel better..
Still with the omnovour line, how many times must i say that just because you can doesn't mean you have to....
as for 'plant killer' both you and trigg avioded the comparision question, cus we all know what the answer is, if you wana call me a plant killer you have got alot more to answer for than if i want to call you a murderer.
Indeed you're free to make your choice, you chose to come in here and tell me why i shouldn't be a veggie, everyone seems to think i attacked them over they issue =/
MtnBiker
10-27-2009, 01:13 PM
I see were you're going, as in 'if an animal died by natural causes...'
Personally i would not eat it, because i find the whole idea horrid, however i can understand why some would eat the meat of an animal that had died naturally, if they only objected to the murder of animals
Then then overall objection is more so on the consumption rather than the manner in which the animal died?
Hmmm, interesting. I've hunted and killed animals and I have had discussions with people on defenseless animals. Claiming an animal as defenseless is a classic misunderstanding and misrepresentation of wild animals. It is true that most hunted wild animals are not offense and attack a human, however they are far from defenseless. An animal is it's natural environment has greater senses and awareness of it's surroundings then humans, it ability to detect and avoid danger make them quite defendable.
...so what part of that makes it ok to murder the animal?
Then then overall objection is more so on the consumption rather than the manner in which the animal died?
No it is both, I hate the look/smell/taste of flesh, and i aslo object to the fact that an animal must be murdered in order to make that,
MtnBiker
10-27-2009, 01:18 PM
...so what part of that makes it ok to murder the animal?
Well, I'm assuming that your ability and my ability to influence each other on the scemantics of animal "murder" are futile. However it is a disservice to animals to label them defenseless when they are not.
Nukeman
10-27-2009, 01:19 PM
Indeed you're free to make your choice, you chose to come in here and tell me why i shouldn't be a veggie, everyone seems to think i attacked them over they issue =/I have NEVER said you shouldn't be whatever you want to be; howver, you have said we are "MURDERERS" for consuming meat. Now who is calling for others to change their ways here. Not ME!!!!!!!
I will say that calling somone a murderer is as close to an attack as one can come without actually doing it :) ...
Well, I'm assuming that your ability and my ability to influence each other on the scemantics of animal "murder" are futile. However it is a disservice to animals to label them defenseless when they are not.
Just becuase they are not defenseless doesn't make it ok to kill them...'oh that bird could have flown away quicker...its the birds fault it got shot'....
0.o
MtnBiker
10-27-2009, 01:21 PM
No it is both, I hate the look/smell/taste of flesh, and i aslo object to the fact that an animal must be murdered in order to make that,
Ok, would you rather an animal live or have no life at all?
Monkeybone
10-27-2009, 01:21 PM
No hunting is not ok, its not about if the animals have a chance or not, its that we chose to murder them when we do not need to.
Slaughter houses are amazing constructs of just how horrid we humans are, designing factories were in just one building tens of thousands of creatures are murdered every day.
If you have pets then you surly feel an attachment to them, you can see that they have a personality and sprit, just like humans, as do all animals, surly you must consider that important when think about these animals getting slaughtered,
Who are you to dictate that we don't need to hunt for food? What is wrong with supplementing the veggies that you harvest with a little bit of meat? And how do you knoe that no one in the world needs to hunt for their food anymore? Maybe not on your little island.
Horrid yes but also efficent I have to say. They needed to do it fast and they found a way. There used to be days before refrigorated trucks and freezing the meat.
And yes, dogs and cats do have personalities. But do deer? No. Do cows? hahaha no. They eat, sleep and shit. Do chickens have personality? I would give cows the upper hand on that one.
Do you disagree with eating meat? Yes. And that is fine. But you don't need to go and try to make others feel guilty about it. That is just kind of an pretentious thing to do. And by pretentious i mean asshole'ish. Not that I think you are an asshole Noir.
Nukeman
10-27-2009, 01:21 PM
ok...Ok....Ok......
I gotta ask.........
do you have a leather Jacket, shoes, wallet, seat cover, or any other animal skin product.
I know this is off topic but it does have relivance in your argument.....
I have NEVER said you shouldn't be whatever you want to be; howver, you have said we are "MURDERERS" for consuming meat. Now who is calling for others to change their ways here. Not ME!!!!!!!
I will say that calling somone a murderer is as close to an attack as one can come without actually doing it :) ...
You tried to tell me it was bad for me health to be a veggie...which i know its not, and you later conceeded that fact, and yes i say you are, you support a system which is just vile, and eat its bloody product, i'm sure it will have no impact on your life what i think of you, but as that is how i feel that is what i state.
ok...Ok....Ok......
I gotta ask.........
do you have a leather Jacket, shoes, wallet, seat cover, or any other animal skin product.
I know this is off topic but it does have relivance in your argument.....
No i don't, not only do i not eat animal flesh but i do not wear it, you should have seen the look i gave my dad one day when he bought me a snake-skin watch, i think he got the idea,
Ok, would you rather an animal live or have no life at all?
You mean the ones that are created just to be fattened up and slaughtered? Ofcourse i'd rather they had no life at all.
Nukeman
10-27-2009, 01:29 PM
You tried to tell me it was bad for me health to be a veggie...which i know its not, and you later conceeded that fact, and yes i say you are, you support a system which is just vile, and eat its bloody product, i'm sure it will have no impact on your life what i think of you, but as that is how i feel that is what i state.
A pure vegan diet is BAD for you, but since your not a Vegan you don't have that problem.
Your opinion that the system is vile is just that a opinion. As for myself I do not purchase my meat from big ticket stores it is all localy grown and slaughterd without going to the big slaughter houses. You may not see a difference in that but I certainly do.
As for yo opinion of me well since you only know me through this website it is hard to make an informed opnion yes????
Nukeman
10-27-2009, 01:31 PM
No i don't, not only do i not eat animal flesh but i do not wear it, you should have seen the look i gave my dad one day when he bought me a snake-skin watch, i think he got the idea,
But a snake's not a animal its a reptile, plus just creepy!!!:coffee:
Ok i'm sorry, good for you for sticking by your convictions. So many say one thing and do another. i will give you props for living your life the way you want and sticking with it!!!!!!!!
MtnBiker
10-27-2009, 01:33 PM
Just becuase they are not defenseless doesn't make it ok to kill them...'oh that bird could have flown away quicker...its the birds fault it got shot'....
0.o
Yet it happens countless times a day in nature, I know I know humans have a choice. I find it somewhat ironic that hunters have a vested interest in wildlife and commit time and money to those interests. I know Ducks Unlimited and The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation do good work for wildlife, their habitats and the sustainability of populations.
Who are you to dictate that we don't need to hunt for food? What is wrong with supplementing the veggies that you harvest with a little bit of meat? And how do you knoe that no one in the world needs to hunt for their food anymore? Maybe not on your little island.
Who are you to dictate that we should murder these animals?
What is wrong is the fact that you have to kill a creature to do it.
Are you telling me that you could not survive without meat?
Horrid yes but also efficent I have to say. They needed to do it fast and they found a way. There used to be days before refrigorated trucks and freezing the meat.
But why do it at all now that we are developed enough not to need to eat meat?
And yes, dogs and cats do have personalities. But do deer? No. Do cows? hahaha no. They eat, sleep and shit. Do chickens have personality? I would give cows the upper hand on that one.
So you eat animals based on wheather or not you think they have a personality...how odd,
And yes they do have personalities, just like you and i and dogs and cats.
Do you disagree with eating meat? Yes. And that is fine. But you don't need to go and try to make others feel guilty about it. That is just kind of an pretentious thing to do. And by pretentious i mean asshole'ish. Not that I think you are an asshole Noir.
Me make you feel guilty? YOU were the one that came into this tread and started talking about 'tasty murder' i didn't start on you.
But a snake's not a animal its a reptile, plus just creepy!!!:coffee:
Ok i'm sorry, good for you for sticking by your convictions. So many say one thing and do another. i will give you props for living your life the way you want and sticking with it!!!!!!!!
Oh i know, and don't worry i give them a harder time than any, cus they know its wrong and yet buy animal skin clothes,
The worst though are the damned fish eaters...'oh i'm a veggie..but i eat fish' :slap:
Que me telling these people who find eating meat horrid now explaining that it is not 'sea food' but 'sea life' and they argue back! IDIOTS lol,
Yet it happens countless times a day in nature, I know I know humans have a choice. I find it somewhat ironic that hunters have a vested interest in wildlife and commit time and money to those interests. I know Ducks Unlimited and The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation do good work for wildlife, their habitats and the sustainability of populations.
It happens in nature because it has too, and don't get me wrong, if it was a choice of eat meat or die i'd eat meat, however we are not in such a position, and can live just fine without ever having to eat meat.
And now i must be off, i had an essay i was meant ta start 2 hours ago, and my fingers are already sore from typing xD
laters,
MtnBiker
10-27-2009, 01:49 PM
Noir, do you eat chick pea or garbonzo beans (not sure what call them in England)?
If so use dried garbanzo beans, soak them in water to soften them. Save the water you soaked them in and reduce (slowly simmer) the water. The reduction should be from about 1 gallon of water to about 2 cups. The pectin in the beans will cause the soaking water to thicken and become dark in color. It makes a great vegetarian sauce to use on different dishes. You can season with salt and pepper or any other spice you like.
MtnBiker
10-27-2009, 01:52 PM
It happens in nature because it has too, and don't get me wrong, if it was a choice of eat meat or die i'd eat meat, however we are not in such a position, and can live just fine without ever having to eat meat.
And now i must be off, i had an essay i was meant ta start 2 hours ago, and my fingers are already sore from typing xD
laters,
Well, we can live just fine without alot of things. We lived for centuries without electricity. So I don't see that as substainable arguement.
Good luck on your essay. :beer:
Monkeybone
10-27-2009, 02:03 PM
Who are you to dictate that we should murder these animals?
What is wrong is the fact that you have to kill a creature to do it.
Are you telling me that you could not survive without meat? I'm not dictating that we should or shouldn't. I am saying to each his own and if it disagrees with mine, then oh well. i will just say "that's your choice" and not lose any sleep over it. And you kill a plant, and yes that is not on the same level i know, but killing is killing. Can i survive without it? yes i can. when i used to hunt with my father, we would actually give most of the meat away to families that not.
But why do it at all now that we are developed enough not to need to eat meat? I don't know. why pay for farmers not to farm land? could be using those extra veggies to feed ppl. and i don't agree with them, it dosn't nothing. I support local ones for the most part anyway if i do eat meat.
So you eat animals based on wheather or not you think they have a personality...how odd, no, you're the one that brought it into them making them like pets. I was saying that they are not like dogs or cats. most undomesticated animals are instinct animals, going off of urges, not wants.
And yes they do have personalities, just like you and i and dogs and cats. no.... not really. do they know where food comes from? yes. other than that, they stand where they do the other two previously mentioned activities.
Me make you feel guilty? YOU were the one that came into this tread and started talking about 'tasty murder' i didn't start on you. was generalizing. not saying that YOU were trying to make ME feel guilty on a personal level. I am not for torturing animals. And I apologized for that. I admit, i was trolling when I saw that thread title.
stephanie
10-27-2009, 02:25 PM
someone has been watching too many PETA movies on the slaughtering of animals for consumption I think...and to say "we humans are horrid" looks like the PETA succeeded...how can a person hate themselves so much because they feel so much quilt about the killing and eating of animals...it must be a awful stressful life to live to have that much worries over so little..
gabosaurus
10-27-2009, 03:06 PM
Meat is FOOD.
Love, Gab.
Proud member of
People
Eating
Tasty
Animals
sgtdmski
10-27-2009, 07:57 PM
Oh yeah...this is a clasic nugget 'over population'
Frist off, we bread most of the animals we eat specificly for eating, chickens, pigs, cows ect, there would be no issue of over running.
And secondly creatures like bears are dangerous, and ofcourse if a bear walks into a town or around some houses and is a risk to the life of the people there then it should be shot, as such animals are unpredictable.
However, that is no excuse for raising and murdering countless animals just so you can have your slab of flesh for dinner.
Why not???? If we did not raise them to slaughter them they would never have been born in the first place.
Believe it or not the facts of life are simple, we as humans need food to survive. Part of that food is meat that comes from animals. We can either hunt for the meat or go to the store and buy meat that is raised for just that purpose.
I am sorry but a vegetarian lifestyle can be unhealthy. Far too many woman, especially, in this country are anemic. They are in this condition because of a lack of protein that comes from foods such as beans, and most importantly, MEAT!!!!!
Like it or not, meat can be an essential part of our diets.
dmk
MtnBiker
10-27-2009, 09:50 PM
Here is a thought; if meat is murder, than an argument could be made that milk is murder. Or any milk dairy product.
Here is something to ponder, what does it take for a cow to produce milk? Where does milk come from, where does milk not come from?
Noir, do you eat chick pea or garbonzo beans (not sure what call them in England)?
If so use dried garbanzo beans, soak them in water to soften them. Save the water you soaked them in and reduce (slowly simmer) the water. The reduction should be from about 1 gallon of water to about 2 cups. The pectin in the beans will cause the soaking water to thicken and become dark in color. It makes a great vegetarian sauce to use on different dishes. You can season with salt and pepper or any other spice you like.
I have heard of chick peas before, but never had them, i shall look them up, cheers,
Well, we can live just fine without alot of things. We lived for centuries without electricity. So I don't see that as substainable arguement.
Good luck on your essay. :beer:
Essay finally finished...and its a load of balls lol, ack well.
as for electtricicty...how many animals are murdered to generate electricity? This shows the difference between one being unnecessary in general for us to live, and the other being unnecessary while also murdering Billions of animals per year.
I'm not dictating that we should or shouldn't. I am saying to each his own and if it disagrees with mine, then oh well. i will just say "that's your choice" and not lose any sleep over it. And you kill a plant, and yes that is not on the same level i know, but killing is killing. Can i survive without it? yes i can. when i used to hunt with my father, we would actually give most of the meat away to families that not.
Indeedy its your choice, fair enough, but you came into this thread trolling me, not I to you, so don't start throwing your toys about because i challenged that.
I don't know. why pay for farmers not to farm land? could be using those extra veggies to feed ppl. and i don't agree with them, it dosn't nothing. I support local ones for the most part anyway if i do eat meat.
A local murderer is better that an international murderer
0.o
no, you're the one that brought it into them making them like pets. I was saying that they are not like dogs or cats. most undomesticated animals are instinct animals, going off of urges, not wants.
Yeah i brought up pets cus plenty of meat eaters have them but would never consider eating them, i have one meat eater friend who has a ducks as pets, and yet she eats duck, i find that just bizzare, and the idea of saying 'no this animal has more of a personality, so we should not murder and eat it' is quite odd, IMO
no.... not really. do they know where food comes from? yes. other than that, they stand where they do the other two previously mentioned activities.
So they do not have personalities or feelings? You do not think that a deer can miss its young, for example...why? Simply because it can not explain it to you?
was generalizing. not saying that YOU were trying to make ME feel guilty on a personal level. I am not for torturing animals. And I apologized for that. I admit, i was trolling when I saw that thread title.
Apology accepted.
stephanie
10-27-2009, 10:06 PM
poor kids just can't be kids today, they have to worry about the "murdering of animals", the global warming is going to "destroy the earth", the guberment isn't going to have enough money to take care of them, how us people are horrid...the brainwashing is almost COMPLETE
someone has been watching too many PETA movies on the slaughtering of animals for consumption I think...and to say "we humans are horrid" looks like the PETA succeeded...how can a person hate themselves so much because they feel so much quilt about the killing and eating of animals...it must be a awful stressful life to live to have that much worries over so little..
I have never watched a PETA video, aren't they like militant veggies who carry out attacks ect on the people who work in slaughter houses? While i can understand the principle of what they are doing i could never support such a group,
Having said that i'm sure my arguments would be more refinded if i did watch/read PETA information, but i feal i have no need to, as i kno what i feel and why i feel it without the aid of such a group.
I would also challenge the idea that i have an 'awful stressful life' and 'hate themselves so much', were on earth did you get that from? If anything i am far too relaxed about life and live by a mantra that 'it'll all be ok' no matter what the situ is, and i love myself to the end of this earth and back, why would i be so daft as to hate myself? To do such would be to live the life of an idiot.
Meat is FOOD.
Love, Gab.
Proud member of
People
Eating
Tasty
Animals
All meat?...like cows, sheep, fish, human, dog ect....
See i consider the murder and eating of all animals vile, you will consider the murdering and eating of some animals vile, but not others.
Why not???? If we did not raise them to slaughter them they would never have been born in the first place.
Stupid agrument, lets put it in context,
Bill has a female dog, he wants more dogs, and so gets is pregnant, it births 3 puppies, Bill then removes the puppies from their mother and keeps them in a seperate room, whenever he feels like it he goes into this room and tortures the puppies, kicking them, starving them, covering them in boiling water ect, until the all end up too weak and die.
When asked about hiss treatment of the animals Bills reply is always the same 'Without me they would not have been born, and would have had no life what so ever, they should be thankful for what i gave them'
:poke: Great argument, no?
Believe it or not the facts of life are simple, we as humans need food to survive. Part of that food is meat that comes from animals. We can either hunt for the meat or go to the store and buy meat that is raised for just that purpose.
Ofcourse we need food to survive, but we do not need to eat meat, and i am living proof of that, surly i should be dead if i could not survive without eating meat.
I am sorry but a vegetarian lifestyle can be unhealthy. Far too many woman, especially, in this country are anemic. They are in this condition because of a lack of protein that comes from foods such as beans, and most importantly, MEAT!!!!!
No its not, read back a few pages when Nukeman tried to make a simalar arguement, vegans DO have this problem, but not vefetarians who have a perfectly healthy diet.
Like it or not, meat can be an essential part of our diets.
But its not...lol, you can live just fine without it, and i do.
dmk[/QUOTE]
stephanie
10-27-2009, 10:27 PM
I have never watched a PETA video, aren't they like militant veggies who carry out attacks ect on the people who work in slaughter houses? While i can understand the principle of what they are doing i could never support such a group,
Having said that i'm sure my arguments would be more refinded if i did watch/read PETA information, but i feal i have no need to, as i kno what i feel and why i feel it without the aid of such a group.
I would also challenge the idea that i have an 'awful stressful life' and 'hate themselves so much', were on earth did you get that from? If anything i am far too relaxed about life and live by a mantra that 'it'll all be ok' no matter what the situ is, and i love myself to the end of this earth and back, why would i be so daft as to hate myself? To do such would be to live the life of an idiot.
what made you think I was talking about you dear..you did post a video of a band playing a song about the eating of animals is murder..maybe I was talking about them, eh? but you do sound a lot like a PETA video, sorry that is how I see it..My niece went through the meat thing after watching a PETA video on how they kill chickens, didn't eat meat for years, though she now will have chicken and fish...
Hey if people want to be vegetarians more power to them...But the majority of people eat meat and that is probably how it will always be, so the video you posted is sorta a waste but only a feelgood thingy for the band to make money...but it seemed to work for them and I wonder if afterwards they went out and had a big juicy steak to celebrate...:laugh2:
Here is a thought; if meat is murder, than an argument could be made that milk is murder. Or any milk dairy product.
Here is something to ponder, what does it take for a cow to produce milk? Where does milk come from, where does milk not come from?
Meat is murder because you Murder the animal to get the meat, you do not murder a cow to get the milk.
The milk comes from the grass which the cow has eaten.
A better argument to put forward would be 'Milk is theft' and i guess this is what vegans argue, and as i have stated before while i understand much of what vegans stand for, i do not think i could live a healthy life as a vegan, though i can as a veggie.
MtnBiker
10-27-2009, 10:33 PM
Meat is murder because you Murder the animal to get the meat, you do not murder a cow to get the milk.
The milk comes from the grass which the cow has eaten.
A better argument to put forward would be 'Milk is theft' and i guess this is what vegans argue, and as i have stated before while i understand much of what vegans stand for, i do not think i could live a healthy life as a vegan, though i can as a veggie.
You did not ponder my question. In order for a cow to produce milk she must have given birth to a calf. It take one male to inseminante hundreds of females, so if a dairy cow gives birth to a male calf what do you suppose happens to the male calf?
Its, not long for this world. Enjoy your milk, chances are very good a little male dairy cow gave his life for it.
what made you think I was talking about you dear..you did post a video of a band playing a song about the eating of animals is murder..maybe I was talking about them, eh? but you do sound a lot like a PETA video, sorry that is how I see it..My niece went through the meat thing after watching a PETA video on how they kill chickens, didn't eat meat for years, though she now will have chicken and fish...
Hey if people want to be vegetarians more power to them...But the majority of people eat meat and that is probably how it will always be, so the video you posted is sorta a waste but only a feelgood thingy for the band to make money...but hey, it seemed to work for them and I wonder if afterwards they went out and had a big juicy steak to celebrate...:laugh2:
Well you did post in a thread were i have been defending animals for 5 pages, and then said "someone has been watching too many PETA movies"...sorry for me being so stupid as to think you were talking to me...
I may sound like a PETA video but if i do its more by chance than intention.
I can not understand the position of your niece, she understands that it is murder, and yet now she eats meat anyway, i assume she can somehow justify that to herself, i would love to hear how so,
You clearly know nothing of Morrissey, he most certainly did not celebrate with a steak, and has been a veggie since he was 11, the song meat is murder may not seem must now but it was a huge deal when it was released in the 70's, this is not a feelgood, or money making song, it is a matter of principle put into poetry
You did not ponder my question. In order for a cow to produce milk she must have given birth to a calf. It take one male to inseminante hundreds of females, so if a dairy cow gives birth to a male calf what do you suppose happens to the male calf?
Its, not long for this world. Enjoy your milk, chances are very good a little male dairy cow gave his life for it.
Well i guess that comes down to the farmer and what priorities they have, i don't know what markets ect are like for male calfs or what its value could be, but i could not stop drinking milk on the basis of what a farmer may or may not do, that is a moral choice for the farmer.
And at the very least, while i do not like the idea, i have alredy said that i do not think i could like a healthly life without milk/cheese/eggs ect, and so if a calf does die then it is a price that must be paid so we humans can live a healthly life, however, we do not need to murder the animals thhat we do in order to live a healthy life, we'd live perfectly fine without eating them.
stephanie
10-27-2009, 10:48 PM
Well you did post in a thread were i have been defending animals for 5 pages, and then said "someone has been watching too many PETA movies"...sorry for me being so stupid as to think you were talking to me...
I may sound like a PETA video but if i do its more by chance than intention.
I can not understand the position of your niece, she understands that it is murder, and yet now she eats meat anyway, i assume she can somehow justify that to herself, i would love to hear how so,
You clearly know nothing of Morrissey, he most certainly did not celebrate with a steak, and has been a veggie since he was 11, the song meat is murder may not seem must now but it was a huge deal when it was released in the 70's, this is not a feelgood, or money making song, it is a matter of principle put into poetry
you would of never made a good cave man, they would of stuck you with the women gathering grains and fruits..
how us horrid people have such a hard life today we have to worry about whether the meat we eat is murder..:poke:
you would of never made a good cave man, they would of stuck you with the women gathering grains and fruits..
how us horrid people have such a hard life today we have to worry about whether the meat we eat is murder..:poke:
As i have said manys a time, in another age were killing to eat is a matter of life and death then fair enough, but not in a day such as today.
Who's worrying about anything? I know its murder ergo i don't eat it, sure i'd rather if you didn't too, but i'm not gonna worry about it,
stephanie
10-27-2009, 11:27 PM
As i have said manys a time, in another age were killing to eat is a matter of life and death then fair enough, but not in a day such as today.
Who's worrying about anything? I know its murder ergo i don't eat it, sure i'd rather if you didn't too, but i'm not gonna worry about it,
that's good dear, because I'm too damn old and stubborn and set in my way to change, so I won't...:thumb:
Monkeybone
10-28-2009, 06:40 AM
Meat is FOOD.
Love, Gab.
Proud member of
People
Eating
Tasty
Animals
yah.... my friend said that to someone in boot camp and had to write a letter of apology.
Sitarro
10-28-2009, 11:35 AM
Amazing man, Amazing song, enjoy.
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This guy sucks dick.
This guy sucks dick.
...care to say why?
Noir? Do you ENJOY THE TASTE OF MURDER as you EAT those Plants?
Noir? Do you ENJOY THE TASTE OF MURDER as you EAT those Plants?
*bangs head on desk*
Its always the same bloomin arguements,
Look through the past few pages, this has been discused with several other users already.
and while you're at it, answer me this, if you eat animal flesh, why don't you eat human flesh?
gabosaurus
10-28-2009, 12:40 PM
My husband and I enjoy consuming the flesh of various animals -- cows, chickens, turkeys, sheep, pigs, lambs. We feed animals to our daughter and she also enjoys it.
We do not eat sea creatures. Not for any ethical reasons, but because many of them are bottom feeders. Most shell fish in particular exist by consuming the excrement of other marine life.
Anyone who wishes to be vegetarian or vegan has my respect. I'm not going to argue with you. Just don't come to my home for dinner. We will be eating animal flesh. :p
HogTrash
10-28-2009, 12:51 PM
What right do i ahve to judge others?...well if i knew someone stole somthing i call them a thief, if i knew someone raped someone i'd call them a rapist, if i know someone supports the murder of animals and eats their flesh i call them a murderer,
Yes as i said we can eat meat, and in the past we had to, just to live, but we now live in an age were we do not need to, and yet we have set up these massive industrial slaughter houses.
Why do you take exception? They murdered aniamls to eat them, there's nothing more i need to add to that,
Did you not read my post? you get b12 from Milk and Fortified cerals (look at your boxes in the house!) there's also plently in eggs (and i think cheese aswell but i'm not certain about that)Ahhh, to be young and idealistic and certain that my beliefs are true and will never change.
To hear all those people who are older than me yet so much less wise and knowledgable.
How could they be so oblivious to the simple truths that I have discovered in my young life.
Young Noir, you will not believe this now but your opinions on many subjects and matters will change countless times in your life because with age comes wisdom.
"Knowledge can be communicated but not wisdom." - Hermann Hesse
MtnBiker
10-28-2009, 01:57 PM
Well i guess that comes down to the farmer and what priorities they have, i don't know what markets ect are like for male calfs or what its value could be, but i could not stop drinking milk on the basis of what a farmer may or may not do, that is a moral choice for the farmer.
And at the very least, while i do not like the idea, i have alredy said that i do not think i could like a healthly life without milk/cheese/eggs ect, and so if a calf does die then it is a price that must be paid so we humans can live a healthly life, however, we do not need to murder the animals thhat we do in order to live a healthy life, we'd live perfectly fine without eating them.
It is more than a moral choice for the dairy farmer it is an economic one. The only value in a male dairy calf is the production of veal. Other than that it would be quite expensive to keep an animal alive, feed and healthy that would ultimately give nothing in return for the liability it causes the farmer. If such costs were included in the price of dairy it would drastically raise the price a milk and milk products. So a male dairy calf can be sold for veal production, it which case it will be murdered, or the dairy farmer will avoid the high cost maintaining the animal and just be murdered. If one chooses to consume dairy then any moral burden cannot rest with the farmer alone but be shared with the willing consumer.
Ahhh, to be young and idealistic and certain that my beliefs are true and will never change.
I hate this line, nothing personal, but there is somthing sickeningly smug about the phase 'to be young' which i have never liked.
To hear all those people who are older than me yet so much less wise and knowledgable.
...are you saying thats what i think? If so you are wrong,
How could they be so oblivious to the simple truths that I have discovered in my young life.
They are not oblivious, they know full well the facts of the situation, they made one choice, i made another,
Young Noir, you will not believe this now but your opinions on many subjects and matters will change countless times in your life because with age comes wisdom.
Maybe they will, maybe they won't,
"Knowledge can be communicated but not wisdom." - Hermann Hesse
More smug tosh.
It is more than a moral choice for the dairy farmer it is an economic one. The only value in a male dairy calf is the production of veal. Other than that it would be quite expensive to keep an animal alive, feed and healthy that would ultimately give nothing in return for the liability it causes the farmer. If such costs were included in the price of dairy it would drastically raise the price a milk and milk products. So a male dairy calf can be sold for veal production, it which case it will be murdered, or the dairy farmer will avoid the high cost maintaining the animal and just be murdered. If one chooses to consume dairy then any moral burden cannot rest with the farmer alone but be shared with the willing consumer.
You could play such games all day...for example if i buy some pasta from a supermarket, that supermarket will use the money it generates from all its sales to by new products, this will include meat, ergo by supporting the supermarket i am indirectly supporting meat production,
At the end of the day i can only do what i do, what others do is beond my control,
And as i have already stated, i do not think i could live a healthy life without milk and other dairy products, this is were basic need of a human (note the word 'need' is stressed here) overcomes the rights of the animal.
*bangs head on desk*
Its always the same bloomin arguements,
Look through the past few pages, this has been discused with several other users already.
and while you're at it, answer me this, if you eat animal flesh, why don't you eat human flesh?
To put animals on the same moral equivalency is ludicrous.. .
My husband and I enjoy consuming the flesh of various animals -- cows, chickens, turkeys, sheep, pigs, lambs. We feed animals to our daughter and she also enjoys it.
We do not eat sea creatures. Not for any ethical reasons, but because many of them are bottom feeders. Most shell fish in particular exist by consuming the excrement of other marine life.
Anyone who wishes to be vegetarian or vegan has my respect. I'm not going to argue with you. Just don't come to my home for dinner. We will be eating animal flesh. :p
What about Salmon, trout or Tuna? They aren't bottom feeders and taste amazing!
Dogs do not have a choice, you do.
What about Lions when they take down a Zebra or other creature to feast on, should they be tried for murder?
So you're saying if a creature doesn't have a choice, it's not murder? LOL
To put animals on the same moral equivalency is ludicrous.. .
And to compare an animal and a plant is not ludicrous?
As i said before in a previous post, out of the following options which would you consider more like eachother
i) A cow and a human?
ii) A cow and an Apple?
MtnBiker
10-28-2009, 02:23 PM
You could play such games all day...for example if i buy some pasta from a supermarket, that supermarket will use the money it generates from all its sales to by new products, this will include meat, ergo by supporting the supermarket i am indirectly supporting meat production,
At the end of the day i can only do what i do, what others do is beond my control,
And as i have already stated, i do not think i could live a healthy life without milk and other dairy products, this is were basic need of a human (note the word 'need' is stressed here) overcomes the rights of the animal.
I have actually been in a grocery store that did not offer meat. It is possible for a grocery store to exsist with out meat or animal products. It is not possible for a cow to produce milk with out giving birth and a large percentage of those births will be male. I'm just pointing out the realities of dairy production and any related moral burdens that one might associate with that.
What about Lions when they take down a Zebra or other creature to feast on, should they be tried for murder?
So you're saying if a creature doesn't have a choice, it's not murder? LOL
*Bangs head on desk again*
Did you not read the posts regarding this?
A lion MUST eat a zebra, it can not grow oats and rice and pasta and make veggie sauces ect.
and as i have said many times already on this thread, if it was a matter of life or death i would eat an animal because i would need to, to stay alive,
However, when we do not need to, and yet do anyway, we are killing for no reason other than our own selfish wants, and a death for no reason is murder IMO.
I have actually been in a grocery store that did not offer meat. It is possible for a grocery store to exsist with out meat or animal products. It is not possible for a cow to produce milk with out giving birth and a large percentage of those births will be male. I'm just pointing out the realities of dairy production and any related moral burdens that one might associate with that.
I know they are there, and trust me i'd love to buy from them all the time, but the reality of the situation is that, for now atleast, i can only afford to shop in supermarkets,
and there is no moral burden attached to a need, tehre is (or atleast should be) a moral burden attached to a want.
MtnBiker
10-28-2009, 02:34 PM
I know they are there, and trust me i'd love to buy from them all the time, but the reality of the situation is that, for now atleast, i can only afford to shop in supermarkets,
and there is no moral burden attached to a need, tehre is (or atleast should be) a moral burden attached to a want.
How convenient, you need milk so its ok. Meat eaters don't need meat and they are equal to murders. :rolleyes:
Food for thought;
http://www.vegansociety.com/animals/exploitation/cows/dairy_cow.php
stephanie
10-28-2009, 02:35 PM
I know after a hard days work I want to come home to relax and listen to a song about how eating meat is murder...good grief..:laugh2:
How convenient, you need milk so its ok. Meat eaters don't need meat and they are equal to murders. :rolleyes:
Food for thought;
http://www.vegansociety.com/animals/exploitation/cows/dairy_cow.php
Its not convenient its common sense,
You do not NEED meat,
You do NEED dairy,
Simple.
Kathianne
10-28-2009, 02:55 PM
Seems to me that since man can domesticate animals for his use, eating them is fine. Not so fine is when the animals are treated poorly such as force fed, etc. Most people who can afford and are aware of the abuses have switched over to free range and those growers that do not use such practices.
Our eating or not eating cows, pigs, chickens, buffalo, etc., will not result in happy days for those animals, they would lose their worth, thus would die out without the farmers to care for.
n0spam4me
10-28-2009, 03:18 PM
A! we don't kill the cow, we B just squeezing her tits!
HogTrash
10-28-2009, 04:13 PM
I hate this line, nothing personal, but there is somthing sickeningly smug about the phase 'to be young' which i have never liked.
...are you saying thats what i think? If so you are wrong,
They are not oblivious, they know full well the facts of the situation, they made one choice, i made another,
Maybe they will, maybe they won't,
More smug tosh.Smugly and smiling I will say, "As usual, I was right".
In 5 years, 10 years, 20 years you will think back and tell yourself;
"Damn, that crazy ole fart was right...I wish I could convince my children of what Hog failed to convince me".
I am not angry with you Noir...To the contrary, I happen to place enomous importance on everything you post.
The Input of someone young like yourself whose entire life has been submersed in the schoolastic,
social, media and politically correctness programming of todays society, is invaluable.
You are the latest product of the Frankfurt School...Google it...In fact I have a thread in here somewhere about it.
It's fascinating stuff...Although I suspect like most you will be in complete denial and will swear it doesn't apply to you.
SassyLady
10-28-2009, 04:30 PM
Its not convenient its common sense,
You do not NEED meat,
You do NEED dairy,
Simple.
You do not need dairy either.
You do not need dairy either.
You do, unless you wana start taking drugs, and i detest drugs,
SassyLady
10-28-2009, 04:46 PM
You do, unless you wana start taking drugs, and i detest drugs,
Where did you get the idea that it is either dairy or drugs? I am on neither and I am healthier than I've ever been.
Also, my grandchildren are not on dairy and they are fine.
Just wondering where you got this idea.
Where did you get the idea that it is either dairy or drugs? I am on neither and I am healthier than I've ever been.
Also, my grandchildren are not on dairy and they are fine.
Just wondering where you got this idea.
Are you a vegan?
SassyLady
10-28-2009, 05:06 PM
Are you a vegan?
I eat beans, rice and veggies - drink water.
No meat, no caffeine, no dairy, no sugar, no alcohol. Not a vegan - just practicing healthy eating.
And I supplement with barley pills.
http://www.mortersupplements.com/green-barley-grass-juice-powder/alka-green.html
I eat beans, rice and veggies - drink water.
No meat, no caffeine, no dairy, no sugar, no alcohol. Not a vegan - just practicing healthy eating.
O.o
Fair play, i have vegan friends (OL) and they tend to be, lets say...unwell allot, i always assumed with to be due to their diet, and having looked into being vegan myself, and with the personal knowledge of vegans, i decided against it on health grounds,
SassyLady
10-28-2009, 05:15 PM
O.o
Fair play, i have vegan friends (OL) and they tend to be, lets say...unwell allot, i always assumed with to be due to their diet, and having looked into being vegan myself, and with the personal knowledge of vegans, i decided against it on health grounds,
Try barley pills/powder.
Kathianne
10-28-2009, 05:22 PM
I eat beans, rice and veggies - drink water.
No meat, no caffeine, no dairy, no sugar, no alcohol. Not a vegan - just practicing healthy eating.
And I supplement with barley pills.
http://www.mortersupplements.com/green-barley-grass-juice-powder/alka-green.html
How does that differ from vegan? Serious question.
MtnBiker
10-28-2009, 05:40 PM
Its not convenient its common sense,
You do not NEED meat,
You do NEED dairy,
Simple.
Absurd
Dairy a need? Then why does an estimated 75% of the world population grow out of it's abilitily to produce lactase?
United States
The prevalence of primary lactose intolerance varies according to race. As many as 25% of the white population (prevalence in those from southern European roots) is estimated to have lactose intolerance, while among black, Native American, and Asian American populations, the prevalence of lactose intolerance is estimated at 75-90%.
International
Of the world's population, 75% is estimated to be lactose-deficient. Lactose intolerance is very common among Asian, South American, and African persons.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/187249-overview
Absurd
Dairy a need? Then why does an estimated 75% of the world population grow out of it's abilitily to produce lactase?
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/187249-overview
It is needed if you do not eat meat, i assume the vast majority of those who are Lactose intolerant do eat meat.
However i shall look into the barley that has been mentioned above, as it seems high in vit B12 ect,
MtnBiker
10-28-2009, 05:57 PM
It is needed if you do not eat meat, i assume the vast majority of those who are Lactose intolerant do eat meat.
It seems you are making a case for meat eating murders.
I need my milk for my coffee that I have after I eat my NY strip, sorry just had to respond :thumb:
And to compare an animal and a plant is not ludicrous?
As i said before in a previous post, out of the following options which would you consider more like eachother
i) A cow and a human?
ii) A cow and an Apple?
None of the above...
Kathianne
10-28-2009, 08:21 PM
Its not convenient its common sense,
You do not NEED meat,
You do NEED dairy,
Simple.
Not a necessity, but a choice. Nothing wrong with it either.
jimnyc
10-28-2009, 09:37 PM
Been reading this thread since yesterday but have been afraid to jump into the fray. I feel kinda bad that Noir is on his own in this one, but I admire the way he has handled himself. Hell, I admire the fact alone that he's sticking to veggies.
I eat meat, and lots of it. I do feel a little bad when slaughterhouses and stuff like that are pointed out. I'm a HUGE animal lover, of all kinds, except for them fucking spiders (YeK!). I choose to remain blind to everything until the food hits my plate. Yes, I'm a wuss with no will power.
I would NEVER go hunting and don't even like the stories, but I've eaten what has later come out of their freezers.
I try to make up for my ignorance by having had pets my whole life and treat them like family; dogs, cats, fish, lizards, snakes, gerbils, hamsters, rats, mice. They were all my little buddies.
I did kill a crab once though, murdered the fucker in cold blood with a hammer. Let it be known though, he was about a 12" Blue Claw and he clawed me for no reason, and got me between my thumb and forefinger. The adrenaline ran and I reacted. If prosecution were available I would plead to temporary insanity.
Been reading this thread since yesterday but have been afraid to jump into the fray. I feel kinda bad that Noir is on his own in this one, but I admire the way he has handled himself. Hell, I admire the fact alone that he's sticking to veggies.
I eat meat, and lots of it. I do feel a little bad when slaughterhouses and stuff like that are pointed out. I'm a HUGE animal lover, of all kinds, except for them fucking spiders (YeK!). I choose to remain blind to everything until the food hits my plate. Yes, I'm a wuss with no will power.
I would NEVER go hunting and don't even like the stories, but I've eaten what has later come out of their freezers.
I try to make up for my ignorance by having had pets my whole life and treat them like family; dogs, cats, fish, lizards, snakes, gerbils, hamsters, rats, mice. They were all my little buddies.
I did kill a crab once though, murdered the fucker in cold blood with a hammer. Let it be known though, he was about a 12" Blue Claw and he clawed me for no reason, and got me between my thumb and forefinger. The adrenaline ran and I reacted. If prosecution were available I would plead to temporary insanity.
LOL, aaaaaaaa the crab got ya huh, LOL
Come on down to the house and the kids will show ya how to castrate a calf, ya talk about cruel, LOL
Abbey Marie
10-29-2009, 12:20 AM
What on earth? Vit B12...you mean the one you get in milk and breakfast cereals?
I get a good dose of B12 every morning
As for the 'longest living person' quip, such a point is daft, and you know it, like there are many more flesh eaters than there are veggies, so from the start theh results of such comparisins will be pointless, and also i did not become a veggie to live to be the oldest person ever, i did so to stop supporting the murder of innocent animals,
I take a Vitamin B12 supplement every day - per doctor's orders. In fact, he never suggested or even mentioned that I need to eat meat.
Abbey Marie
10-29-2009, 12:23 AM
Been reading this thread since yesterday but have been afraid to jump into the fray. I feel kinda bad that Noir is on his own in this one, but I admire the way he has handled himself. Hell, I admire the fact alone that he's sticking to veggies.
I eat meat, and lots of it. I do feel a little bad when slaughterhouses and stuff like that are pointed out. I'm a HUGE animal lover, of all kinds, except for them fucking spiders (YeK!). I choose to remain blind to everything until the food hits my plate. Yes, I'm a wuss with no will power.
I would NEVER go hunting and don't even like the stories, but I've eaten what has later come out of their freezers.
I try to make up for my ignorance by having had pets my whole life and treat them like family; dogs, cats, fish, lizards, snakes, gerbils, hamsters, rats, mice. They were all my little buddies.
I did kill a crab once though, murdered the fucker in cold blood with a hammer. Let it be known though, he was about a 12" Blue Claw and he clawed me for no reason, and got me between my thumb and forefinger. The adrenaline ran and I reacted. If prosecution were available I would plead to temporary insanity.
Three comments:
1. Yes, Noir is an asset to the board. I have always found him to be reasonable and I love having members from other continents.
2. While he may be alone in the thread thus far, I am here to say that I agree with him. (He knows this).
3. You, Jim, are still the one of the most humorous writers I've ever read. :beer:
Three comments:
1. Yes, Noir is an asset to the board. I have always found him to be reasonable and I love having members from other continents.
2. While he may be alone in the thread thus far, I am here to say that I agree with him. (He knows this).
3. You, Jim, are still the one of the most humorous writers I've ever read. :beer:
Abbey? You too think eating animals is murder?
SassyLady
10-29-2009, 03:34 AM
How does that differ from vegan? Serious question.
I don't know - I'm not a vegan because on occasion I will eat meat and dairy...........but not if I want my immune system to be top notch......and with the flu going around I keep my immune system revved up. I have no idea what vegans eat or don't eat. I just started using the Dr. Morter theory of eating in 2008 and I've never been healthier. Got off all meds - hormones, allergy meds, anti-depressants, etc. Now I just drink reverse osmosis water and take barley pills. Used to have 2-3 sinus infections every year and go on antibiotics........stopped all dairy and have not had sinus infection in over two years. No allergies. I don't even have to take Excedrin for headaches anymore - used to have migraines daily.
Plus - I can eat tons of veggies and not feel guilty about the calories - it's almost a negative caloric sum total.
Oh - I do eat eggs..........I think that is considered animal consumption ..... just not murder I hope.
However, to clarify the whole murder and eating meat. I love meat and feel that if I am not eating the creature then some other animal will eat it...........and sometimes the other creature will be eating it while it is still alive. At least humans slaughter and butcher their food before they eat it..........so it seems more humane than watching a wild animal take down another wild animal and start eating it before it is dead.
So, I endorse meat eating........I'm just not eating it at this time so I can be healthier.
It seems you are making a case for meat eating murders.
You would think so, but no lol, if you are lactose intolerant then to can drink Soya milk instead of cows milk for your B12 ect,
But, IF someone is in a position were they *must* eat meat in order to have a healthy diet then i'm fine with them eating meat if they so chose, it is only those who murder and eat for no reason that i have a problem with, as i have said a few times now,
I need my milk for my coffee that I have after I eat my NY strip, sorry just had to respond :thumb:
:slap:
:p
None of the above...
Well there you are sir,
You said that comparing humans to animals was ludicrous, and yet you find it no less ludicrous that the idea that animals are like plants, which was the suggestion that you made about me murdering plants. So now surly you see how silly it is to compare killing a plant and killing an animal :)
Not a necessity, but a choice. Nothing wrong with it either.
Maybe in your opinion, in mine one is needlessly taking the life of another creature, and thus murder,
:slap:
:p
I shouild of kept my 2 cents to myself but just felt the need to cut up, I do eat meat but respect anyone's right to do as they wish when it comes to this subject Noir
For the past 5 years I lived on a cattle farm, so if no one ate meat we would of been in trouble, but if one wishes not to eat meat for health reasons or any reason I truly respect it, please take my comments as a joke as it was meant to be :thumb:
Been reading this thread since yesterday but have been afraid to jump into the fray. I feel kinda bad that Noir is on his own in this one, but I admire the way he has handled himself. Hell, I admire the fact alone that he's sticking to veggies.
I eat meat, and lots of it. I do feel a little bad when slaughterhouses and stuff like that are pointed out. I'm a HUGE animal lover, of all kinds, except for them fucking spiders (YeK!). I choose to remain blind to everything until the food hits my plate. Yes, I'm a wuss with no will power.
I would NEVER go hunting and don't even like the stories, but I've eaten what has later come out of their freezers.
I try to make up for my ignorance by having had pets my whole life and treat them like family; dogs, cats, fish, lizards, snakes, gerbils, hamsters, rats, mice. They were all my little buddies.
I did kill a crab once though, murdered the fucker in cold blood with a hammer. Let it be known though, he was about a 12" Blue Claw and he clawed me for no reason, and got me between my thumb and forefinger. The adrenaline ran and I reacted. If prosecution were available I would plead to temporary insanity.
Tell me about it, i'm use to making 4 or 5 posts per day, and now by accident i've jumped to making 50-60 posts per day xD
and i think i'll let you off the crab murder, simlply because of the image i got in my head while reading the story :laugh2:
I take a Vitamin B12 supplement every day - per doctor's orders. In fact, he never suggested or even mentioned that I need to eat meat.
Indeedy, i've never been to a doc about my diet, though i do have my blood checked everytime i donate, and they've never said anythings wrong so i assume all my b12 levels ect are ok, and considering i could easily go through a litre of milk a day i don't need suppliements, and am glad i don't cus i would hate the idea of taking a drug like that, but fairplay if it works for ya,
Three comments:
1. Yes, Noir is an asset to the board. I have always found him to be reasonable and I love having members from other continents.
2. While he may be alone in the thread thus far, I am here to say that I agree with him. (He knows this).
3. You, Jim, are still the one of the most humorous writers I've ever read.
Feel free to jump in and give a hand any time ya like :laugh2:
I shouild of kept my 2 cents to myself but just felt the need to cut up, I do eat meat but respect anyone's right to do as they wish when it comes to this subject Noir
For the past 5 years I lived on a cattle farm, so if no one ate meat we would of been in trouble, but if one wishes not to eat meat for health reasons or any reason I truly respect it, please take my comments as a joke as it was meant to be :thumb:
Ofcourse, worry not, i don't take anything you say seriously :coffee:
MtnBiker
10-29-2009, 03:10 PM
You would think so, but no lol, if you are lactose intolerant then to can drink Soya milk instead of cows milk for your B12 ect,
Very good, with that you just established that milk is a want not a need.
So if the statement meat is murder is acceptable then the statement, milk is murder must also be accepted.
gabosaurus
10-29-2009, 04:28 PM
Meat contains a lot of nutrients and is good for you. It is especially necessary for children.
Noir, you can be vegetarian all you want. But you are not going to convince most carnivores to switch.
Very good, with that you just established that milk is a want not a need.
So if the statement meat is murder is acceptable then the statement, milk is murder must also be accepted.
I thought soya milk was made from cows milk, but went through a different production process? If not, my bad.
Fair play, but if your gonna call Milk murder, you'd have to call meat genocide, or at the very least mass murder,
Meat contains a lot of nutrients and is good for you. It is especially necessary for children.
Noir, you can be vegetarian all you want. But you are not going to convince most carnivores to switch.
Nurtrients that you can get just fine from plently of other sources, that don't involve factories that murder tens of thouands of animals per day.
And i'm not trying to 'switch' anyone, though i would obviously rather if fewer people ate meat, look back through the thread, my posts have all been reactions to questions posed at me, I did start asking people why they eat meat and telling them that they shouldn't they came here and made posts, just like you did, which i then reacted to, this wasn't even meant to be a discussion thread lol,
MtnBiker
10-29-2009, 09:48 PM
Been reading this thread since yesterday but have been afraid to jump into the fray. I feel kinda bad that Noir is on his own in this one, but I admire the way he has handled himself. Hell, I admire the fact alone that he's sticking to veggies.
Quite right, kudos to Noir.
MtnBiker
10-29-2009, 09:50 PM
I thought soya milk was made from cows milk, but went through a different production process? If not, my bad.
Fair play, but if your gonna call Milk murder, you'd have to call meat genocide, or at the very least mass murder,
Nope, soya milk is made from soy beans.
I would not call milk murder. I'm just saying that if a person is to call meat murder then they must also call milk murder.
jimnyc
10-29-2009, 10:26 PM
I wanted to extend a heartfelt thank you to everyone. Now every time I see my Pug I think of a hamburger and when I see the Chihuahua I think of a hot dog. Don't fret, our fridge is stocked and my little buddies aren't in any danger of being consumed any time in the near future.
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