SUpreme Court Upholds Ban on Partial Birth Abortion

[krisy]

Court Backs Ban on Abortion Procedure

Apr 18 10:18 AM US/Eastern
By MARK SHERMAN
Associated Press Writer


WASHINGTON (AP) - The Supreme Court upheld the nationwide ban on a controversial abortion procedure Wednesday, handing abortion opponents the long- awaited victory they expected from a more conservative bench.
The 5-4 ruling said the Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act that Congress passed and President Bush signed into law in 2003 does not violate a woman's constitutional right to an abortion

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8OJ2HV82&show_article=1

[darin]

Next step - ban MOST abortions! :)

[krisy]

This is a great day for our country:salute:

[loosecannon]

This is a great day for our country:salute:


And a great day in the 6000 year history of the earth!!!!!:salute:

[krisy]

And a great day in the 6000 year history of the earth!!!!!:salute:

Do we actually agree loose?!!!!! :dance:

[avatar4321]

Looks like there will be some more boys and girls with the opportunity to grow up now. It's a good day in America today.

[Gunny]

This is a great day for our country:salute:

I thought I already saw this thread?

This law needs a medical exception clause. That's a BIG concern to just leave out.

[manu1959]

I thought I already saw this thread?

This law needs a medical exception clause. That's a BIG concern to just leave out.

i posted it after this one.....anyway, anyone know the exact procedure that has been banned was performed.....pull the babys haed out and crush it.....did you know that all they will do know is crush it in the womb....

[krisy]

I thought I already saw this thread?

This law needs a medical exception clause. That's a BIG concern to just leave out.

I don't believe one is needed

Heres why. If a woman can no longer carry a child because of a health issue,why not have her deliver the child alive. Sucking the baby's brains out of his/her head does nothing at all to save mom's life. If the baby is taken out of mom alive,then everything possible can still be done to save the childs life. There is nothing about what they do to a baby in a PBA that saves moms life,other than actually taking the baby out of her.

See what I mean?

[krisy]

i posted it after this one.....anyway, anyone know the exact procedure that has been banned was performed.....pull the babys haed out and crush it.....did you know that all they will do know is crush it in the womb....

sad.

[Little-Acorn]

This law needs a medical exception clause. That's a BIG concern to just leave out.

It needs an exception to save the LIFE of the mother.

It cannot have an exception for the HEALTH of the mother.

Not because I want mothers to suffer poor health, for you leftist hysterics out there. But because an exception for the mother's health will instantly be abused to the hilt by the abortion advocates, defying the spirit of the exception.

EVERY pregnancy, no matter how well it goes, puts the mother's health at a somewhat higher risk than if she were not pregnant. Those who want casual abortions would simply point this out, and find a sympathetic doctor who doesn't mind killing unborn babies on a whim, and the law will effectively be nullified.

Sorry, all, but it's well known that people will find any and every means to get around a law, no matter how good or fair the law was. And this would become a classic example. An exception for the HEALTH of the mother, therefore cannot be done. Only an exception to save her LIFE.

[actsnoblemartin]

I find partial birth abortion digusting and barbaric.


It needs an exception to save the LIFE of the mother.

It cannot have an exception for the HEALTH of the mother.

Not because I want mothers to suffer poor health, for you leftist hysterics out there. But because an exception for the mother's health will instantly be abused to the hilt by the abortion advocates, defying the spirit of the exception.

EVERY pregnancy, no matter how well it goes, puts the mother's health at a somewhat higher risk than if she were not pregnant. Those who want casual abortions would simply point this out, and find a sympathetic doctor who doesn't mind killing unborn babies on a whim, and the law will effectively be nullified.

Sorry, all, but it's well known that people will find any and every means to get around a law, no matter how good or fair the law was. And this would become a classic example. An exception for the HEALTH of the mother, therefore cannot be done. Only an exception to save her LIFE.

[My Winter Storm]

I don't believe one is needed

Heres why. If a woman can no longer carry a child because of a health issue,why not have her deliver the child alive. Sucking the baby's brains out of his/her head does nothing at all to save mom's life. If the baby is taken out of mom alive,then everything possible can still be done to save the childs life. There is nothing about what they do to a baby in a PBA that saves moms life,other than actually taking the baby out of her.

See what I mean?

PBA's are extremely rare. They are only ever done when it the best option for the mother. These abortions are done when a natural birth is impossible, and even a C section could pose a serious risk to the life of the mother.
Hydracephalic fetus's are aborted this way. Natural birth is out of the question as the fetus's head is too big to pass through the birth canal. A C section poses a risk (although small, around 2%) of the woman bleeding to death. The surgery itself is also risky in the way it can weaken the womb of the woman, so she may have problems with a subsequent pregnancy.
A PBA is the safest option for the mother, as there is a less than 2% risk to the life of the mother. A baby with hydracephaly has virtually no chance of survival - and in most cases, the brain is simply filled with fluid (water) not brain matter.

I agree that there needs to be a medical clause in this ruling, as PBA's are not done for any reason other medical reasons.

[My Winter Storm]

I find partial birth abortion digusting and barbaric.

It does sound like a barbaric procedure, but do know that it only happens when 100% necessary. Don't believe those who tell you it happens all the time for whatever reason, because it doesn't.

[actsnoblemartin]

I know it only happens somewhere between 0.17 to 1.4 percent based on the wikipedia i was reading, i just dont like it based on making an incision in the skull, and then a scissor to take the brain out, sounds gross.

im open to reason, why is this neccessary?

im listening my friend


It does sound like a barbaric procedure, but do know that it only happens when 100% necessary. Don't believe those who tell you it happens all the time for whatever reason, because it doesn't.

[My Winter Storm]

I know it only happens somewhere between 0.17 to 1.4 percent based on the wikipedia i was reading, i just dont like it based on making an incision in the skull, and then a scissor to take the brain out, sounds gross.

im open to reason, why is this neccessary?

im listening my friend

I made a post explaining one of the reasons for PBA - it's only done when the life of the mother could be comprimised if she were to give birth naturally, or deliver via C section.

Btw, the fetus is already dead when the PBA takes place. It's euthanased in the womb, so the PBA is not actually an abortion, just a method of removing the fetus from the mother.
The actual procedure does sound gross, but sometimes it's needed to protect the life of the mother.

[actsnoblemartin]

my understanding is, its done... so the baby doesnt live

here is a link or two

lets have a civil debate about this :laugh2:

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oGkiPECk5IM5gApCRXNyoA?p=partial+bir th+abortions&y=Search&fr=yfp-t-501&ei=UTF-8&vm=r

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_birth_abortion#.22Partial-birth_abortion.22

Circumstances and reasons for this procedure

See also: Late-term abortion

IDX, along with dilation and evacuation (D&E), early induction of labor, and rare procedures such as saline abortion, are only used in the late stages of pregnancy. Late-term abortions at 21 weeks or later account for 1.4% of all abortions in the USA.[11] Intact D&X procedures are used in approximately 15% of those late-term abortion cases. This is the equivalent of between 2,500 and 3,000 per year, using data from the Alan Guttmacher Institute for the year 2000. They are typically performed between the twentieth and twenty-fourth week of pregnancy.[12]

Women choose to have late-term abortions for a variety of reasons. Once a pregnant woman has made the decision to have a late-term abortion, she or a doctor may choose IDX over other available late-term abortion procedures because:

* Although a woman may experience contractions, she does not have to experience labor.[13]
* IDX is an outpatient procedure; the woman does not have to be hospitalized.[13]
* The woman does not have to undergo abdominal surgery.[14]
* The procedure results in a largely intact body over which the parents may grieve.[15]
* Instruments are inserted into the uterus fewer times than in a D&E abortion, potentially reducing the risk of uterine tearing.[16]
* The fetus may have hydrocephalus, where the head may expand to a radius of up to 250% of a normal skull at birth, making it impossible for it to pass through the cervix. If live birth is desired, the physician may drain the excess fluid in utero using a syringe,[17] or a caesarian section may be done as soon as amniocentesis indicates lung maturity.[18] If abortion is desired, D&X may be the simplest procedure.[13]

Reasons a woman or physician may not choose IDX, opting instead for another abortion procedure, include:

* IDX requires a larger dilation of the cervix than D&E.[16]
* Podalic version (turning the fetus into a breech position) can be dangerous to the woman.[17]
* The incision in the fetal skull is made blind; the physician may miss and injure the woman's cervix.[17]



I made a post explaining one of the reasons for PBA - it's only done when the life of the mother could be comprimised if she were to give birth naturally, or deliver via C section.

Btw, the fetus is already dead when the PBA takes place. It's euthanased in the womb, so the PBA is not actually an abortion, just a method of removing the fetus from the mother.
The actual procedure does sound gross, but sometimes it's needed to protect the life of the mother.

[actsnoblemartin]

lets put it this way, i wouldnt ban it... but i understand why many are against it

[My Winter Storm]

Saline abortions are now illegal - the site you got that from may not be updated. :)
Also, late term abortions are not always partial birth abortions - but all partial birth abortions are late term abortions.
Late term abortions are done for different reasons than partial birth abortions.

Wikipedia is not always a reliable source, though - and the reasons you state for late term abortions are not valid reasons for a PBA.
PBA's are not illegal over here - they are restricted and can only be done when the life of the woman may be compromised.

[gabosaurus]

I know this is terribly un-liberal of me, but I don't see anyone would be in favor of a voluntary, on-demand abortion after the first trimester.
The only time it should ever be used is if the life of the mother is at stake.
This is should be determined my medical people, NOT outsiders.

This was a situation faced by a friend of mine last November. She was four or five months pregnant and had severe complications. There was about a 50 percent chance that the pregnancy could be carried to term and the baby born normally. There was an equal chance that something could go wrong in the remaining weeks, with the results ranging from death of the child to death of the mother.
Given the option of proceeding or termination, her husband said that if there was a 5 percent chance he could lose his wife, he wasn't going to take it. So he chose the latter.

You can be fundamentalist all you want, until you are the one under the gun.

[My Winter Storm]

lets put it this way, i wouldnt ban it... but i understand why many are against it

I can understand why people are against it, too, but the problem is that too many people don't know the actual reasons why they are done - or they think they happen all the time.

[My Winter Storm]

I know this is terribly un-liberal of me, but I don't see anyone would be in favor of a voluntary, on-demand abortion after the first trimester.
The only time it should ever be used is if the life of the mother is at stake.
This is should be determined my medical people, NOT outsiders.

This was a situation faced by a friend of mine last November. She was four or five months pregnant and had severe complications. There was about a 50 percent chance that the pregnancy could be carried to term and the baby born normally. There was an equal chance that something could go wrong in the remaining weeks, with the results ranging from death of the child to death of the mother.
Given the option of proceeding or termination, her husband said that if there was a 5 percent chance he could lose his wife, he wasn't going to take it. So he chose the latter.

You can be fundamentalist all you want, until you are the one under the gun.

I do support elective abortions right up until birth, but that's just me. I've been lynched many times for having that opinion, but this isn't the debate at hand.

Did your friend ever find out if the fetus would have been born with complications? And did the mother come out of the procedure okay?

[actsnoblemartin]

I think abortion should be the choice of the woman, not the government.

I dont think we as a society should make choices for others.

I was commenting on the method of abortion, not abortion itself.

I am not opposed to partial birth abortion, or late term abortion for that matter.

The state and government has more important things to do, then worry about women's choices

unless pro lifers want the government telling them how to live their lives since they are comfortable telling women how to live theirs


I do support elective abortions right up until birth, but that's just me. I've been lynched many times for having that opinion, but this isn't the debate at hand.

Did your friend ever find out if the fetus would have been born with complications? And did the mother come out of the procedure okay?

[My Winter Storm]

I was commenting on the method of abortion, not abortion itself.

The method of abortion is sometimes gruesome, but we really need to understand why it is done.

[actsnoblemartin]

this is a really tough issue, i cant understand it.

Perhaps, i need more convincing


The method of abortion is sometimes gruesome, but we really need to understand why it is done.

[PostmodernProphet]

Btw, the fetus is already dead when the PBA takes place. It's euthanased in the womb, so the PBA is not actually an abortion, just a method of removing the fetus from the mother.


I am sorry, but that is the most ridiculous statement I have seen anyone post on this board since I came here.....you try to rationalize this procedure by claiming the part which causes the death of the fetus is some separate act?......

killing the fetus it is simply one of the steps of a partial birth abortion....

[gabosaurus]

Did your friend ever find out if the fetus would have been born with complications? And did the mother come out of the procedure okay?

I have no idea about the former. The mom is OK.

[glockmail]

.....You can be fundamentalist all you want, until you are the one under the gun. The problem is Gabs that there are "fundies" on the anti-life side as well. Here's an example:


I do support elective abortions right up until birth, but that's just me. ....

This disgusting pro-death attitude is why pro-lifers (like me) are committed to stopping all abortions.

[actsnoblemartin]

im sorry but i think its hypocritical of liberals to say we wont put a needle in a mans arm to kill him, but we will put scissors in the back of a partially born babies head.

bottom line, if any part of the baby comes out, it is alive.

The pro-choice people, have some fundamental dick shits in their too, and im not gonna be one of them

partial birth abortions, are cruel and must be banned

[My Winter Storm]

I am sorry, but that is the most ridiculous statement I have seen anyone post on this board since I came here.....you try to rationalize this procedure by claiming the part which causes the death of the fetus is some separate act?......

killing the fetus it is simply one of the steps of a partial birth abortion....

Of course not, but the thing is, many people believe the baby is actually alive and kicking when it comes out, which isn't true. It's still an abortion, but the actual abortion has already taken place in the womb.
PBA's are also performed on women whose fetus's have died in utero, the same method is used to remove that fetus, and this isn't an abortion, because the fetus has died of natural causes.

[My Winter Storm]

This disgusting pro-death attitude is why pro-lifers (like me) are committed to stopping all abortions.

I am not pro death. I just support choice. Obviously I do not agree with all abortions, but I am not going to stop a woman who wants one, no matter how far along she is. I don't believe I, personally, have the right to interfere.

[glockmail]

I am not pro death. I just support choice. Obviously I do not agree with all abortions, but I am not going to stop a woman who wants one, no matter how far along she is. I don't believe I, personally, have the right to interfere. Yeah you're right. If the kid's half way out and she changes her mind, then kill the little bastard.

[gabosaurus]

Yeah you're right. If the kid's half way out and she changes her mind, then kill the little bastard.

I am totally in favor of retroactive abortions for some people. :D

[glockmail]

I am totally in favor of retroactive abortions for some people. :D
That's a great idea. Mothers can kill their children until they are, say, 18.