http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/19/AR2007041902571.html?

[lily]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/19/AR2007041902571.html?referrer=email


Maybe Gonzales Won't Recall His Painful Day on the Hill

By Dana Milbank
Friday, April 20, 2007; Page A02

Alberto Gonzales's tenure as attorney general was pronounced dead at 3:02
p.m. yesterday by Tom Coburn, M.D.

The good doctor, who also happens to be a Republican member of the Senate
Judiciary Committee, made this clinical judgment after watching Gonzales
suffer through four hours of painful testimony. The Oklahoman listed the
cause of death as management failure and other complications of the Justice
Department's firing of eight federal prosecutors.


"It was handled incompetently. The communication was atrocious," Coburn told
the beleaguered attorney general. "You ought to suffer the consequences that
these others have suffered, and I believe that the best way to put this
behind us is your resignation."

The hearing was billed as Gonzales's chance to explain the contradictions,
omissions and falsehoods in his response to the firings. But instead of
contrition, the attorney general treated the committee to a mixture of
arrogance, combativeness and amnesia. Even his would-be defenders on the
Republican side were appalled.

"Mr. Attorney General, most of this is a stretch," said Lindsey Graham
(R-S.C.).

"Why is your story changing?" demanded Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa).

"Significantly, if not totally, at variance with the facts," said Arlen
Specter (Pa.), the committee's ranking Republican.

"Really deplorable," said John Cornyn (R-Tex.). After this blow, from an
administration loyalist and an old Texas friend, Gonzales stuttered in his
reply.

Gonzales had weeks to prepare for yesterday's hearing. But the man who sat
at the witness table sounded like the sort of person who forgets where he
parked his car.

Explaining his role in the botched firing of federal prosecutors, Gonzales
uttered the phrase "I don't recall" and its variants ("I have no
recollection," "I have no memory") 64 times. Along the way, his answer
became so routine that a Marine in the crowd put down his poster protesting
the Iraq war and replaced it with a running "I don't recall" tally.

Take Gonzales's tally along with that of his former chief of staff, who
uttered the phrase "I don't remember" 122 times before the same committee
three weeks ago, and the Justice Department might want to consider handing
out Ginkgo biloba in the employee cafeteria.

Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.), usually an administration friend, asked about a
pivotal meeting about the firings that Gonzales attended less than five
months ago.

"Senator, I have searched my memory," the attorney general answered. "My
schedule shows a meeting for 9:00 on November 27th, but I have no
recollection of that meeting."

"This was not that long ago," said a puzzled Sessions. "You don't recall any
of that?"



"Believe me," Gonzales repeated. "I've searched my mind about this meeting."

"Well," the senator concluded, "I guess I'm concerned about your
recollection."

For much of the very long day, the attorney general responded like a child
caught in a lie. He shifted his feet under the table, balled his hands into
fists and occasionally pointed at his questioners. He defended his actions:
"The decision stands." He denied responsibility: "This was a process that
was ongoing that I did not have transparency into." He blamed the victims:
"Poor judgment . . . poor management." He blamed his subordinates: "When
there are attacks against the department, you're attacking the career
professionals."

Mostly, though, he retreated to memory loss. He was asked about the firing
of the Arkansas U.S. attorney. "I have no recollection about that." The
Nevada prosecutor? "I just don't recall the reason." The western Michigan
U.S. attorney? "I don't recall."

[manu1959]

memory loss huh......

http://emporium.turnpike.net/P/ProRev/wwstats.htm

ARKANSAS ALZHEIMER'S

- Number of times Hillary Clinton said "I don't recall" or its equivalent in a statement to a House investigating committee: 50
- Number of times Bill Clinton said "I don't recall" or its equivalent in the released portions of the his testimony on Paula Jones: 271

- Total number of facts or events not recalled before official bodies by Bill Kennedy, Harold Ickes, Ricki Seidman, Bruce Lindsey, Bill Burton, Mark Gearan, Mack McLarty, Neil Eggleston, John Podesta, Jennifer O'Connor, Dwight Holton, Patsy Thomasson, Jeff Eller, Beth Nolan, Cliff Sloan, Bernard Nussbaum, George Stephanopoulous, Roy Neel, Rahm Emanuel, Maggie Williams, David Tarbell, Susan Thomases, Webster Hubbell, Roger Altman, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton: 6,125
- Average occurrence of memory lapse by top administration figures while before official bodies: 235

[lily]

Intersting statistics, manu..........but other than Bill, can you tell me how many had their memory loss in front of congress testifying on what they did on their job, could remember doing something, but not the day and could remember the day on another thing, but not what he did........and this is after practicng for over a week?

Either this is one incopetient person or he is lying. I don't particularly care which one it is but to go through all this to cover something up is pretty suspicious.


..........but then I feel like a fool myself, for putting in the link instead of the title for the thread :lol:

[manu1959]

Intersting statistics, manu..........but other than Bill, can you tell me how many had their memory loss in front of congress testifying on what they did on their job, could remember doing something, but not the day and could remember the day on another thing, but not what he did........and this is after practicng for over a week?

Either this is one incopetient person or he is lying. I don't particularly care which one it is but to go through all this to cover something up is pretty suspicious.

..........but then I feel like a fool myself, for putting in the link instead of the title for the thread :lol:

i thought the link as title was pretty cool.....

since you asked

Number of times John Huang took the 5th Amendment in answer to questions during a Judicial Watch deposition: 1,000
http://emporium.turnpike.net/P/ProRev/wwstats.htm

but ya gonzo was pretty pitiful.....but tell me ya thought he was smart when he was confirmed....

[lily]

i thought the link as title was pretty cool.....

since you asked

Number of times John Huang took the 5th Amendment in answer to questions during a Judicial Watch deposition: 1,000
http://emporium.turnpike.net/P/ProRev/wwstats.htm

but ya gonzo was pretty pitiful.....but tell me ya thought he was smart when he was confirmed....


I have to admit, I did think he was the man for the job. While I'm playing true confessions, I have to also admit that I didn't think Bolton was UN material and he's proven himself to be.

[Kathianne]

I have to admit, I did think he was the man for the job. While I'm playing true confessions, I have to also admit that I didn't think Bolton was UN material and he's proven himself to be.

I didn't like Gonzales from the get go. I liked Bolton, so we are in full agreement. Now it would be good to see Gonzales gone, but I'm not comfortable for this cause, Bush should just have asked for his resignation.

We all lose with Bolton, he could not get confirmed.

[lily]

I didn't like Gonzales from the get go. I liked Bolton, so we are in full agreement. Now it would be good to see Gonzales gone, but I'm not comfortable for this cause, Bush should just have asked for his resignation.

We all lose with Bolton, he could not get confirmed.


Bush has never asked for any ones resignation. In fact, I don't recall any president asking for one. Gonzales should have done the right thing from the begining before it got this far out of hand.

[manu1959]

I have to admit, I did think he was the man for the job. While I'm playing true confessions, I have to also admit that I didn't think Bolton was UN material and he's proven himself to be.

funny i was just the opposite....assholes like bolton get where they are because they have to good to overcome beining and ass....gonzo is a suck up and was rewarded for it...same as bush's hurican twit....

[Kathianne]

Bush has never asked for any ones resignation. In fact, I don't recall any president asking for one. Gonzales should have done the right thing from the begining before it got this far out of hand.

Ok, Bush should have 'accepted' it, whether Gonzales brought it up or not. There are so many things wrong with this administration, though usually not the ones that make the most noise.

[loosecannon]

I listened to the hearing today lily, it was abysmal for Gonzales. He was at a complete loss to measure up to the challenge laid out by the committee who called him in.

The several mentions that he had previously lied under oath, even by the repubs, show that he is done.

Unfortunately Bush won't ask him to resign because Gonzo knows all the crimes that bush committed in office. And those number in the scores.

All presidents commit crimes in office. But few or none are as prolific as Bush.

And when the leadership fails, the amnesty usually afforded those presidents evaporates and the axe of justice severs them from their position.

Bush is months away from impeachment hearings.

Because he still refuses to listen to the nation and the congress and because he was born dirty as a rat.

If Bush stands a chance he must sever Gonzo and Rove and even Cheney and be his own man.

But now that the investigations are in gear he prefers to just stall and delay and obstruct hoping to make it to the end.

That will be a fatal mistake.

[lily]

funny i was just the opposite....assholes like bolton get where they are because they have to good to overcome beining and ass....gonzo is a suck up and was rewarded for it...same as bush's hurican twit....


.......well all of them are long time friends, which doens't mean they were qualified for the jobs they had. Every president does this, but not as bad as Bush's choices have been.

[Baron Von Esslingen]

It took exactly ONE POST for someone to try and hijack the thread into a "Bubba did it, too" thread. DP SOP.


Mostly, though, he retreated to memory loss. He was asked about the firing of the Arkansas U.S. attorney. "I have no recollection about that." The Nevada prosecutor? "I just don't recall the reason." The western Michigan U.S. attorney? "I don't recall."

Sad thing is he had an extra two days to prepare for this and he STILL CAN'T RECALL? I can't remember ever meeting an attorney, much less the highest attorney in the land, with such a poor memory. Either that or he's a liar just like his boss.

This ain't over yet and the longer it goes on the worse it will get. I hope he doesn't resign. I hope he stays in his post as AG until 2009. The next guy will be a Democrat and he/she will clean house the CORRECT way.

[lily]

I listened to the hearing today lily, it was abysmal for Gonzales. He was at a complete loss to measure up to the challenge laid out by the committee who called him in.

I fell asleep watching them last night. I couldn't believe that he actually practiced this for a week straight. I can't imagine how bad he would have looked if he didn't. I think every parent knows when their kid is lying and sorry, Gonzales looked worse than a kid with his hand stuck in the cookie jar.




Unfortunately Bush won't ask him to resign because Gonzo knows all the crimes that bush committed in office. And those number in the scores.

Who know? He's know him long enough, but Gonzales like Rumsfailed seems like they would take his secrets to the grave.


All presidents commit crimes in office. But few or none are as prolific as Bush.

Actually I don't know about any crimes......but he is blatent in every thing he does. He just seems like he doesn't care. I would love to be a fly on the wall at Thanksgiving with the family. I doubt his father is too proud.




Bush is months away from impeachment hearings.

Nah, the Democrats would get fried for this and as I've said, the country can't take that.




If Bush stands a chance he must sever Gonzo and Rove and even Cheney and be his own man.

Never happen......but then I didn't think Rumsfailed was going anywhere either. Also as I mentioned before, I don't want Cheney going anywhere. That would put a viable candidate in the '08 race. Right now the Republicans don't have one.

[manu1959]

.......well all of them are long time friends, which doens't mean they were qualified for the jobs they had. Every president does this, but not as bad as Bush's choices have been.

it would seem bush's friends are not the smartest crowd.....

[lily]

it would seem bush's friends are not the smartest crowd.....

If that isn't an understatement......I don't know what is:clap:

[manu1959]

It took exactly ONE POST for someone to try and hijack the thread into a "Bubba did it, too" thread. DP SOP.

Sad thing is he had an extra two days to prepare for this and he STILL CAN'T RECALL? I can't remember ever meeting an attorney, much less the highest attorney in the land, with such a poor memory. Either that or he's a liar just like his boss.

This ain't over yet and the longer it goes on the worse it will get. I hope he doesn't resign. I hope he stays in his post as AG until 2009. The next guy will be a Democrat and he/she will clean house the CORRECT way.

the point was .... "i don't recall" is sop for dificult questions .....and if the dems are elected all of the attorneys will be fired for political reasons....and saints will take office

[lily]

the point was .... "i don't recall" is sop for dificult questions .....and if the dems are elected all of the attorneys will be fired for political reasons....and saints will take office


..........but don't you see......he's not in that much trouble for firing the attorneys......he's in trouble for lying about it. Covering up instsead of facing the music has been this administrations strong suit.

[manu1959]

..........but don't you see......he's not in that much trouble for firing the attorneys......he's in trouble for lying about it. Covering up instsead of facing the music has been this administrations strong suit.

to lie he would need to know the truth...not sure he is smart enough to lie and coverup.....not sure he knows anything....he is chauncy gardner

[lily]

to lie he would need to know the truth...not sure he is smart enough to lie and coverup.....not sure he knows anything....he is chauncy gardner

Well, we certainly have proof of that!

[loosecannon]

to lie he would need to know the truth...not sure he is smart enough to lie and coverup.....not sure he knows anything....he is chauncy gardner

ha ha ha hardly Chauncey. Gonzo is very smart. It was full evident in the quality of his lies. He is a liewyer fur christ sakes.

But he is guilty. Hard to cover that up, hard to miss that in the statements of even the GOP committee members.

[manu1959]

Well, we certainly have proof of that!

yea! i win one!.......

[lily]

......well I know that will make me sleep better toninght.:lol:

[Baron Von Esslingen]

it would seem bush's friends are not the smartest crowd.....

First true thing I've seen from you in a while. Congrats...

[stephanie]

:coffee:

[CockySOB]

I fell asleep watching them last night. I couldn't believe that he actually practiced this for a week straight. I can't imagine how bad he would have looked if he didn't. I think every parent knows when their kid is lying and sorry, Gonzales looked worse than a kid with his hand stuck in the cookie jar.
I only caught parts of the appearance, but you're spot-on, Gonzales put forth a pitiful (but not pitiable) performance. Anyone who's done public speaking knows that you have to project confidence and intelligence, and Gonzales did neither.

[Gunny]

It took exactly ONE POST for someone to try and hijack the thread into a "Bubba did it, too" thread. DP SOP.



Sad thing is he had an extra two days to prepare for this and he STILL CAN'T RECALL? I can't remember ever meeting an attorney, much less the highest attorney in the land, with such a poor memory. Either that or he's a liar just like his boss.

This ain't over yet and the longer it goes on the worse it will get. I hope he doesn't resign. I hope he stays in his post as AG until 2009. The next guy will be a Democrat and he/she will clean house the CORRECT way.

Nobody's tried to hijack anything except perhaps the one person that wishes to smokescreen an obvious doublestandard with a deflective accusation.

If "I don't recall" is acceptable for one side, then it is NOT covering-up or lying for the other. I know only one person with photographic memory, and his recall is STILL not perfect.

Yet you wonder why a guy both right and left alike call dumb can't remember shit? I don't.

[loosecannon]

Nobody's tried to hijack anything except perhaps the one person that wishes to smokescreen an obvious doublestandard with a deflective accusation.

If "I don't recall" is acceptable for one side, then it is NOT covering-up or lying for the other. I know only one person with photographic memory, and his recall is STILL not perfect.

Yet you wonder why a guy both right and left alike call dumb can't remember shit? I don't.

It was pointed out repeatedly by the committee members from both parties that he had weeks to prepare and get the info that they were inquiring about.

Gonzo said "he can't recall" to at least 50 questions.

Is this guy fit to serve if his memory of events he prepared 3 weeks to defend is that piss poor?

He is a friggin lawyer. He isn't some chump who is unfamiliar with testimony. He had spent many hours in conference with the committee members preparing, he knew what many of their questions would be.

"I don't recall" is obstruction. It is a way of refusing to answer the question.

[darin]

please never use a URL as the subject. :(

[gabosaurus]

I love how pretty much every disaster in the Bush administration can be related to Clinton. :laugh2:

Two wrongs do not make a right. Two idiots do not cancel out each other.
Gonzales is a liar and needs to resign.

[manu1959]

I love how pretty much every disaster in the Bush administration can be related to Clinton. :laugh2:

Two wrongs do not make a right. Two idiots do not cancel out each other.
Gonzales is a liar and needs to resign.

you must be joking that is all yalls favourite defense for anything you do....

[gabosaurus]

please never use a URL as the subject. :(
:clap:

[Baron Von Esslingen]

you must be joking that is all yalls favourite defense for anything you do....

Go back and look at the second post in this thread. It was YOU that tried the old republican thread hijack of "Bubba Did It First."

I do quite understand how it agonizing it must be to try and defend the indefensible. :salute:

[manu1959]

Go back and look at the second post in this thread. It was YOU that tried the old republican thread hijack of "Bubba Did It First."

I do quite understand how it agonizing it must be to try and defend the indefensible. :salute:

the article made a point that he had a faulty memory ..... i was using an example and a link and facts to point out it is done all the time ..... i have pointed this out to you twice ....

[CockySOB]

please never use a URL as the subject. :(

You could probably modify the title to match the title of the article (first line of Lily's post IIRC). I doubt Lily would mind such a modification, she's quite reasonable like that.

[Baron Von Esslingen]

the article made a point that he had a faulty memory ..... i was using an example and a link and facts to point out it is done all the time ..... i have pointed this out to you twice ....

In reference to the point made earlier, I doubt that AG has a faulty memory. I'm not a lawyer but if I had three weeks to be in his place and testify TRUTHFULLY as to the incidents, meetings, and decisions, I might hit one or two roadblocks but 74 times? No frickin' way. Using notes you ought to be able to answer every question posed to you.... unless you didn't want to..... because you would be exposed for your underhandedness and possible criminal behavior.

You may choose to buy into the "I don't remember" defense but it's just a way to legally escape answering questions you don't want to answer without getting hung out to dry in a court or by the Congress. The consequences, however, are that people call your competence into question. Of course, ever since it was exposed that it was AG that called the Geneva Conventions "quaint" I knew we would not be dealing with the most upstanding, honest, or ethical person and this week's testimony proves that without a doubt.

Sucks to be a Bushie when you have to defend people like that.

[loosecannon]

In reference to the point made earlier, I doubt that AG has a faulty memory. I'm not a lawyer but if I had three weeks to be in his place and testify TRUTHFULLY as to the incidents, meetings, and decisions, I might hit one or two roadblocks but 74 times? No frickin' way. Using notes you ought to be able to answer every question posed to you.... unless you didn't want to..... because you would be exposed for your underhandedness and possible criminal behavior.

You may choose to buy into the "I don't remember" defense but it's just a way to legally escape answering questions you don't want to answer without getting hung out to dry in a court or by the Congress. The consequences, however, are that people call your competence into question. Of course, ever since it was exposed that it was AG that called the Geneva Conventions "quaint" I knew we would not be dealing with the most upstanding, honest, or ethical person and this week's testimony proves that without a doubt.

Sucks to be a Bushie when you have to defend people like that.

Absolutely Baron, which is exactly why even republican congress men were making that same point during the hearing.

Refusing to answer hard questions before is obstruction of justice.

And this is the Head of the Dept of Justice obstructing.

Getting your head around that and it's implications is like discovering that your bank doesn't lock it's doors at night.

[manu1959]

In reference to the point made earlier, I doubt that AG has a faulty memory. I'm not a lawyer but if I had three weeks to be in his place and testify TRUTHFULLY as to the incidents, meetings, and decisions, I might hit one or two roadblocks but 74 times? No frickin' way. Using notes you ought to be able to answer every question posed to you.... unless you didn't want to..... because you would be exposed for your underhandedness and possible criminal behavior.

You may choose to buy into the "I don't remember" defense but it's just a way to legally escape answering questions you don't want to answer without getting hung out to dry in a court or by the Congress. The consequences, however, are that people call your competence into question. Of course, ever since it was exposed that it was AG that called the Geneva Conventions "quaint" I knew we would not be dealing with the most upstanding, honest, or ethical person and this week's testimony proves that without a doubt.

Sucks to be a Bushie when you have to defend people like that.

have you ever been deposed? people are entitled to answer questions however they see fit...people can also refuse .... people were calling his competence into question before this .... that said he could have answered the questions and he would just be called a liar ... yes it must suck to be a bushie .... must also be frustrating to be a klinton klown .... 1no matter what a politician does they are wrong 100% of the time to 50% of the people ....

[manu1959]

Absolutely Baron, which is exactly why even republican congress men were making that same point during the hearing.

Refusing to answer hard questions before is obstruction of justice.

And this is the Head of the Dept of Justice obstructing.

Getting your head around that and it's implications is like discovering that your bank doesn't lock it's doors at night.

you have to prove intent...and you know how hard that is don't you?:poke:

[loosecannon]

you have to prove intent...and you know how hard that is don't you?:poke:


No actually Gonzo said the same thing and was rebuked by Congress in the hearings.

This is not a criminal procedure.

It is a congressional hearing. Congress either gets the info they need to conduct oversight or they act as if there are problems that must be corrected.

The burden of proof was on Gonzo to answer the questions. That was stated repeatedly.

He failed, they want him gone.

[manu1959]

No actually Gonzo said the same thing and was rebuked by Congress in the hearings.
This is not a criminal procedure.
It is a congressional hearing. Congress either gets the info they need to conduct oversight or they act as if there are problems that must be corrected.
The burden of proof was on Gonzo to answer the questions. That was stated repeatedly.
He failed, they want him gone.

people have taken the 5th, refused to answer questions and said i don't recall before....they were all rebuked....they will do it again....they were idiots for confriming him in the first place and he will be resigning to spend more time with his family soon....

what is funny is politicians demanding a straight answer to their questions....

[lily]

please never use a URL as the subject. :(

Post #3, but thanks for making a point of it on the forum, instead of a PM asking if I knew I made a mistake and offering to fix it for me.



..........but then I feel like a fool myself, for putting in the link instead of the title for the thread :lol:

[lily]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/20/AR2007042002020.html?referrer=email


Bush Rebuffs GOP Pressure For Gonzales to Step Down
After Testimony, Attorney General Loses Lawmakers' Support

By Peter Baker and Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, April 21, 2007; Page A03

President Bush yesterday stood by his embattled friend, Attorney General
Alberto R. Gonzales, defying the broad bipartisan consensus emerging in
Washington after this week's Senate hearing that Gonzales has so badly
damaged his own credibility that he should resign.

Bush expressed "full confidence" in Gonzales through a spokeswoman and
praised his "fantastic" service, in hopes of quashing speculation that the
attorney general would be pushed out. But a wide array of Republicans
described Gonzales with phrases such as "dead man walking," and even some
White House aides privately voiced hope that he will step down on his own.

Oh no! The double whammy!

[Kathianne]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/20/AR2007042002020.html?referrer=email


Oh no! The double whammy!

Get him through the hearings then kick his ass out.

[Baron Von Esslingen]

have you ever been deposed? people are entitled to answer questions however they see fit...people can also refuse .... people were calling his competence into question before this .... that said he could have answered the questions and he would just be called a liar ... yes it must suck to be a bushie .... must also be frustrating to be a klinton klown .... 1no matter what a politician does they are wrong 100% of the time to 50% of the people ....

Yes, I have been deposed and videotaped while doing so. The judge, after reviewing the tape, stated in open court, "Finally, someone that is telling the truth in this case." I was not crucial to either side's case but something had been called into question that I did and I explained it under oath in a deposition and it settled the matter conclusively. I had all of 30 minutes to prepare and never once said, "I can't recall."

Fact is, AG could not bring himself to tell the truth because it would have made him look like the tool he is. He would rather look the fool and pretend not to remember than admit what he did was underhanded and partisan.

The Bushies have a real winner on their hands with this guy.

[Baron Von Esslingen]

Post #3, but thanks for making a point of it on the forum, instead of a PM asking if I knew I made a mistake and offering to fix it for me.

SOP, Lil.

[darin]

Post #3, but thanks for making a point of it on the forum, instead of a PM asking if I knew I made a mistake and offering to fix it for me.

How about you sending a PM to somebody and ask them to fix it?

[loosecannon]

people have taken the 5th, refused to answer questions and said i don't recall before....they were all rebuked....they will do it again....they were idiots for confriming him in the first place and he will be resigning to spend more time with his family soon....

what is funny is politicians demanding a straight answer to their questions....

OK, granted mostly true.

But those politicians are acting in an incredibly serious role, as the oversight of a corrupt government.

In fact what could be more serious?

The mere fact that they are finally doing their job is enough.

Gonzo failed, kick him to the curb and move on.

[lily]

How about you sending a PM to somebody and ask them to fix it?


......and take your fun away......not on your life! The fact that you felt you needed to respond on the forum, tells me all I need to know:fu:

[manu1959]

Yes, I have been deposed and videotaped while doing so. The judge, after reviewing the tape, stated in open court, "Finally, someone that is telling the truth in this case." I was not crucial to either side's case but something had been called into question that I did and I explained it under oath in a deposition and it settled the matter conclusively. I had all of 30 minutes to prepare and never once said, "I can't recall."

Fact is, AG could not bring himself to tell the truth because it would have made him look like the tool he is. He would rather look the fool and pretend not to remember than admit what he did was underhanded and partisan.

The Bushies have a real winner on their hands with this guy.

then you are a smart man.....how do you know he wasn't telling the truth? ... the american people have a real winner on their hands....

[lily]

Manu......if he was telling the truth, then he needs to be fired for being incompetent.

[manu1959]

Manu......if he was telling the truth, then he needs to be fired for being incompetent.

as i have said i was stunned he was approved in the first place....didn't this same group that is calling him a moron approve just a few years ago?...if so one has to wonder about them as well...no?

[lily]

as i have said i was stunned he was approved in the first place....didn't this same group that is calling him a moron approve just a few years ago?...if so one has to wonder about them as well...no?

Doesn't change the damage he's done, but sure......if that makes you happy.

[Baron Von Esslingen]

then you are a smart man.....how do you know he wasn't telling the truth? ... the american people have a real winner on their hands....

He had three weeks to prepare and he couldn't "remember" crucial items he was asked about despite going thru session after session to practice just that. Unless he was practicing avoiding telling the truth.

Funny thing, manu, I was deposed over eight years ago and I bet you I could approximate what I said in my deposition without any major mistakes and without looking at the transcript if I were asked the same questions today. It's the same memory process that allows you to remember the words of a song you haven't heard in 10 or 20 years and still be able to sing along.

If Gonzales says he cannot remember things that happened just last year, he's lying. Or he's stupid. Take your choice.

[manu1959]

He had three weeks to prepare and he couldn't "remember" crucial items he was asked about despite going thru session after session to practice just that. Unless he was practicing avoiding telling the truth.

Funny thing, manu, I was deposed over eight years ago and I bet you I could approximate what I said in my deposition without any major mistakes and without looking at the transcript if I were asked the same questions today. It's the same memory process that allows you to remember the words of a song you haven't heard in 10 or 20 years and still be able to sing along.

If Gonzales says he cannot remember things that happened just last year, he's lying. Or he's stupid. Take your choice.

once agin you are a smart man.....

question....is one not allowed to "take the fifth" in front of congress" ?

you can't prove he is lying and if he was stupid he would have answered the questions.....

[manu1959]

Doesn't change the damage he's done, but sure......if that makes you happy.

actually the state of american politics does not make me happy at all...it is of great concern that our government (yes both sides) seems more concerned with showing the other side up rather than actually doing anything .....

[Baron Von Esslingen]

once agin you are a smart man.....

question....is one not allowed to "take the fifth" in front of congress" ?

you can't prove he is lying and if he was stupid he would have answered the questions.....

I think you can take the Fifth but they can also cite you for Contempt Of Congress for doing so. Congress tries to avoid people pleading the Fifth but I don't believe that anyone recently being brought up on Contempt charges recently.

No, I cannot prove he was lying but it's like like Justice Potter Stewart's definition of obscenity: I can't tell you what it is but I know it when I see it. And, no, being smart would have answered the questions truthfully to put the fire out. By not answering the questions, he has merely prolonged the incident longer and made Democrats more determined to dig deeper. Now they appear justified whereas before folks were not sure what was going on.

[loosecannon]

as i have said i was stunned he was approved in the first place....didn't this same group that is calling him a moron approve just a few years ago?...if so one has to wonder about them as well...no?

It's not the same group.

[loosecannon]

once agin you are a smart man.....

question....is one not allowed to "take the fifth" in front of congress" ?

you can't prove he is lying and if he was stupid he would have answered the questions.....

You can only plead the 5th if your testimony might incriminate you. IOW prove your guilt.

If he isn't guilty of anything, then no, he can not plead the fifth.

[Baron Von Esslingen]

You can only plead the 5th if your testimony might incriminate you. IOW prove your guilt.

If he isn't guilty of anything, then no, he can not plead the fifth.

He also cannot plead it if he is protecting someone else.

[loosecannon]

I think you can take the Fifth but they can also cite you for Contempt Of Congress for doing so. Congress tries to avoid people pleading the Fifth but I don't believe that anyone recently being brought up on Contempt charges recently.

No, I cannot prove he was lying but it's like like Justice Potter Stewart's definition of obscenity: I can't tell you what it is but I know it when I see it. And, no, being smart would have answered the questions truthfully to put the fire out. By not answering the questions, he has merely prolonged the incident longer and made Democrats more determined to dig deeper. Now they appear justified whereas before folks were not sure what was going on.

The 600 lb gorilla in the room is that Congress can impeach Gonzo and there is a good chance that they will if he does not resign.

Gonzo was given a chance to speak in his defense providing key testimony about glaring discrepencies between his testimony and other witnesses.

More than 50 times he could not recall and therefore said nothing to redeem himself before the body who can fire him.

He may have lied to Congress previously, which is almost a proven fact, and he may have lied again.

That is a crime, and an impeachable offense.

If the GOP congresspersons do not block the impeachment and Gonzo doesn't resign he is on the road to forcefull removal.

[loosecannon]

He also cannot plead it if he is protecting someone else.

Baron, my Gawd, what are you suggesting?

[Baron Von Esslingen]

That AG is another who will fall on his sword sooner or later to protect Bush's Brain from being found out and dismissed from his cushy government job even though he would have been dimissed a long time ago if Bush hadn't of lied about dismissing anyone found to be involved in the outing of Valerie Plame. I'm not suggesting it. I'm telling it.

[loosecannon]

That AG is another who will fall on his sword sooner or later to protect Bush's Brain from being found out and dismissed from his cushy government job even though he would have been dimissed a long time ago if Bush hadn't of lied about dismissing anyone found to be involved in the outing of Valerie Plame. I'm not suggesting it. I'm telling it.


As former WH council AG AG is neck deep in the shit.

Read the list of watergate perps in the corruption thread, what they did and what their sentences were.

Applying the same standards applied to Nixon and Reagan there would be easily 100 BA personel in the courts headed for lockup.

Not counting the Abramoff crew.

AG is crucial to the survival of the BA.

[Baron Von Esslingen]

And if "playing" stupid gets it done, he will be their hero. I wouldn't want to be the USA that gets tagged for indicting AG AG when the time comes. The Bushbots will lose a wingnut screaming about it and Fox Noise will milk it for a month or two.

We can't apply the same standards to these jokers that we did to Nixon or Reagan because back then the government HAD standards.