eighballsidepocket
01-19-2010, 06:02 PM
Roberson is so off on his bible understanding with this one, that it is downright irk-some.
Interestingly, the current men's bible study that I'm involved with, is studying the book of John in the New Testament, and Jesus was confronted with a man blind from birth. His disciples asked if the man was blind because his parents sinned or the blind man himself sinned. Jesus, clearly said, "None of the above!!!!!!!!!!". He said that this man was blind so that God would be glorified.
Sound strange? Not really. Jesus healed that blind man, and the miraculous healing caused many to believe in Jesus as the Son of God.
As for disasters......Tsunami's, Earthquakes, etc.... If for any reason they might happen as a disciplinary action towards a wayward nation, the ultimate aim of God is that it will turn people to Him, and through repentance, as a result of exhausting their own feeble human powers to conquer life's trials.
I can't count the number of times that Israel, the "Apple in the Father's eyes" was disciplined by God when they started to fall away from worshipping HIm, and went into Baal, and other worships of the Canaanite area of Northern Africa. Often the chastizing came in the form of enemies encroaching into, and taking territory from Israel.
Job: Here's a perfect example that refutes Robertson's bent.
Job lost his family, through natural disaster, and plundering enemies, and he/himself was afflicted most severly with physical maladies that even caused his wife to tell him, "Why don't you just curse God and die".........To which, Job reprimanded his wife, and said that he would never do that.
Haiti: Ok, we all know that this country is a mish-mash of various beliefs, and non-beliefs. It Catholicism is rampant or tainted with old African, paganism, and South American Indian nuances. It certainly is not pure in it's biblical direction. In addition voodooism is also rampant in the rural areas of the island nation.
Does this mean that God wants to wipe Haiti's populous off the map? Far from it!!! As a bible Christian, who accepts or believes that there is a Maker of all things, and that He desires the admiration, praise, reciprical love, of His creation(man), He is indeed omnipotent. I do believe that nothing happens to us or this earth or this universe that isn't "allowed", or purposely done for a reason.
In the case of Haiti; does hate them for not being bible purists? NO!!! However He/God does desire that they as individuals and as a nation give reverence to Him who created them. That goes for Russia, China, USA, Yemen........etc... on and on.
Is God a cruel God as displayed through this terrible earthquake? Well, as a bible Christian, I believe God could have stopped this earthquake from occuring, but did not. Does this make Him a bad or cruel God.........or to some of you folks "a bad concept of God"? I don't. Remember back to Job. If one reads the first chapter or two of Job, one will ascertain that God loved Job, and even declared that non man walked the face of the earth who was a special to God as he/Job. Yet, in the very same book, God allows calamity after calamity to befall Job. Why.......? If one reads to the end of the book one will find that Job, though considered righteous to God, acquired an even tighter bond with God at the end of the story.
The basic tenants in the bible that run from the O.T. to the N.T. is God striving with man. God's striving with man is a constant soap opera of man repenting, receiving forgiveness, then man becoming gradually self sufficient or in no need of God, and straying into all kinds of self inflicted troubles again and again. The O.T., especially in Psalms is filled with both praise filled and woefull proclamations by man as he lives out this Yo yo existence of realizing that God is ultimately the wiser of the two, and is the best to manage and direct man's life.
Revelations says that in the end times, the human race will be split into two groups..........one group will shake an angry fist at God......and their mantra will be, "I'll do it my way!!".........and the other group will be characterized by those of a contrite, humble soul, that has finally allowed their Maker to take the pilot seat of their lives.
From the Judeau/Christian viewpoint; man's trials and struggles on planet earth are but a time of separating out the grain from the weeds or the sheep from the goats. God allows life to be hard, for those he loves, as the hardness of life via God's intentions is to bring man to a point of "surrender", not unlike what one might call a break-down. God is no respecter of man's wealth, deeds/accomplishments, that are all sourced from a self-centered soul, that has no room to entertaiin or reverence it's Maker. As the bible states, God's wealth is incomprehensible,........"He owns a thousands of cattle on thousands of hills......." I.E.. infinite wealth.
Through all of man's endeavors to succeed on this terrestrial ball called earth, the bible reveals that the greatest wealth is not the physical, but the spiritual that comes from "knowing God" in a personal relationship that gives security, peace that passeth all understanding, joy, and the ability to love one's enemy. God is not against man puting a roof over his family and giving them the healthy essentials of life, but He does want man to put this endeavor into proper perspective when looking at the big picture of the gift of human life.
Haiti's plight can potentially create throughout the world and our own nation/USA, a new and better perspective about life. We fat, and well fed Americans that term poverty as owning only one television, and one running-water tap, and one toilet, have a lot to learn from Hait's plight. Life is not possessing things as much as it is possessing a secure soul, that is in harmony with it's Creator.
We American Christians don't realize what the life of Christians can and is in many parts of the world. Owning a car or a television, or going to school, or having a home with a backyard..............doesn't even compute with these people. Their desires make should embarrass us! They desire to see their children just grow to adulthood without dieing of Cholera, disentery, etc... They often just pray that the seeds they've tilled into their ground will get watered from the sky, and not die from drought. Just having a well to draw non-contaminated water is a euphoric desire.
Haiti may or may not be receiving some action from God that drives them to their collective knees, but this catastrophe is a reminder and message to the Western world, that we have strayed, as Israel of old did numerous times, and neglected the basic essentials of what life is all about in a blind crusade to acquire the physical that will one day rust away, or be eaten-away by moths.
Calamities are monumental "tests" that show what people are made of. As we have already read and heard, there are "looters", and dangerous gangs roaming the capital of Haiti as well as the stricken rural areas taking full advantage of this situation. We see that the Haitian populous does have an ethical divide showing itself through this disaster. There are those who are rising up that have no respect for their fellow man/woman/child, and are willing to forego conscience and pillage the "weak" and "down trodden". There is also word coming of Haitians helping other Haitians, in such incredible ways, risking life and limb to save other lives, though they-themselves are pitifully poor by earthly measurements. Indeed they are richer than the materially richest person on earth in God's eyes.
What do we well fed humans do? We debate the reasons for the Haitians receiving this plight.......This is the time when self-intro-spect needs to be considered. We debate if God is good or bad, or if the Haitians deserve punishment or not, and all along, we should be looking in our own mirrors and pointing that index finger at ourselves.
What have we prioritized in our lives? Have we neglected to be thankful, even though we have endured hardships. Have these hardships made us stronger in the right way? I.E. have we come to a point of surrendering our agenda, and allowed our Maker's agenda to fill in the unquenchable void in our souls, that we have been attempting to quench or feed through "things" that will not last the test of eternity?
I will finish with this one special quote from the bible. Paul had a physical affliction that he asked God to take away from him. Paul said that he prayed many times, asking God to lift this "thorn in the flesh" from him.. There has been much speculation as what this "thorn in the flesh" was, but no one knows. All we know, is that it was a major "bother" to Paul. Now Paul was a man who had endured numerous lashes, beatings, imprisonments yet never complained of those instances, yet he asked for this physical malady/thorn-in-the-flesh to be removed.
God answer was a flat, "No". Instead of entreating God anymore, Paul said, "Ok. It's answered, and the answer is no. I'm fine with that.". Now what Paul said after that is profound, and foreign to our secularized society here in the USA and the Western world. Paul basically said, since this malady weakens me, "I will be satisfied in my weakness, as it is God's way of becoming the strength in me". I paraphrased the bible verse, but it means the same. Paul taught a humungous lesson to mankind in those few verses.
God can't be God in man's life until man gives up the reigns and move's aside and lets God take the steering wheel, throttle, brake pedal, and also the map of ones life/soul.
Man will not give up the reigns to God except by being brought to his/her's knees.........Call it giving up........Call it repentance........whatever........It is raising one's white flag, and admitting that one has been one's own captain, navigator, pilot/co-pilot of one's life long enough.
The AA Serenity prayer says it all.
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen.
--Reinhold Niebuhr
Interestingly, the current men's bible study that I'm involved with, is studying the book of John in the New Testament, and Jesus was confronted with a man blind from birth. His disciples asked if the man was blind because his parents sinned or the blind man himself sinned. Jesus, clearly said, "None of the above!!!!!!!!!!". He said that this man was blind so that God would be glorified.
Sound strange? Not really. Jesus healed that blind man, and the miraculous healing caused many to believe in Jesus as the Son of God.
As for disasters......Tsunami's, Earthquakes, etc.... If for any reason they might happen as a disciplinary action towards a wayward nation, the ultimate aim of God is that it will turn people to Him, and through repentance, as a result of exhausting their own feeble human powers to conquer life's trials.
I can't count the number of times that Israel, the "Apple in the Father's eyes" was disciplined by God when they started to fall away from worshipping HIm, and went into Baal, and other worships of the Canaanite area of Northern Africa. Often the chastizing came in the form of enemies encroaching into, and taking territory from Israel.
Job: Here's a perfect example that refutes Robertson's bent.
Job lost his family, through natural disaster, and plundering enemies, and he/himself was afflicted most severly with physical maladies that even caused his wife to tell him, "Why don't you just curse God and die".........To which, Job reprimanded his wife, and said that he would never do that.
Haiti: Ok, we all know that this country is a mish-mash of various beliefs, and non-beliefs. It Catholicism is rampant or tainted with old African, paganism, and South American Indian nuances. It certainly is not pure in it's biblical direction. In addition voodooism is also rampant in the rural areas of the island nation.
Does this mean that God wants to wipe Haiti's populous off the map? Far from it!!! As a bible Christian, who accepts or believes that there is a Maker of all things, and that He desires the admiration, praise, reciprical love, of His creation(man), He is indeed omnipotent. I do believe that nothing happens to us or this earth or this universe that isn't "allowed", or purposely done for a reason.
In the case of Haiti; does hate them for not being bible purists? NO!!! However He/God does desire that they as individuals and as a nation give reverence to Him who created them. That goes for Russia, China, USA, Yemen........etc... on and on.
Is God a cruel God as displayed through this terrible earthquake? Well, as a bible Christian, I believe God could have stopped this earthquake from occuring, but did not. Does this make Him a bad or cruel God.........or to some of you folks "a bad concept of God"? I don't. Remember back to Job. If one reads the first chapter or two of Job, one will ascertain that God loved Job, and even declared that non man walked the face of the earth who was a special to God as he/Job. Yet, in the very same book, God allows calamity after calamity to befall Job. Why.......? If one reads to the end of the book one will find that Job, though considered righteous to God, acquired an even tighter bond with God at the end of the story.
The basic tenants in the bible that run from the O.T. to the N.T. is God striving with man. God's striving with man is a constant soap opera of man repenting, receiving forgiveness, then man becoming gradually self sufficient or in no need of God, and straying into all kinds of self inflicted troubles again and again. The O.T., especially in Psalms is filled with both praise filled and woefull proclamations by man as he lives out this Yo yo existence of realizing that God is ultimately the wiser of the two, and is the best to manage and direct man's life.
Revelations says that in the end times, the human race will be split into two groups..........one group will shake an angry fist at God......and their mantra will be, "I'll do it my way!!".........and the other group will be characterized by those of a contrite, humble soul, that has finally allowed their Maker to take the pilot seat of their lives.
From the Judeau/Christian viewpoint; man's trials and struggles on planet earth are but a time of separating out the grain from the weeds or the sheep from the goats. God allows life to be hard, for those he loves, as the hardness of life via God's intentions is to bring man to a point of "surrender", not unlike what one might call a break-down. God is no respecter of man's wealth, deeds/accomplishments, that are all sourced from a self-centered soul, that has no room to entertaiin or reverence it's Maker. As the bible states, God's wealth is incomprehensible,........"He owns a thousands of cattle on thousands of hills......." I.E.. infinite wealth.
Through all of man's endeavors to succeed on this terrestrial ball called earth, the bible reveals that the greatest wealth is not the physical, but the spiritual that comes from "knowing God" in a personal relationship that gives security, peace that passeth all understanding, joy, and the ability to love one's enemy. God is not against man puting a roof over his family and giving them the healthy essentials of life, but He does want man to put this endeavor into proper perspective when looking at the big picture of the gift of human life.
Haiti's plight can potentially create throughout the world and our own nation/USA, a new and better perspective about life. We fat, and well fed Americans that term poverty as owning only one television, and one running-water tap, and one toilet, have a lot to learn from Hait's plight. Life is not possessing things as much as it is possessing a secure soul, that is in harmony with it's Creator.
We American Christians don't realize what the life of Christians can and is in many parts of the world. Owning a car or a television, or going to school, or having a home with a backyard..............doesn't even compute with these people. Their desires make should embarrass us! They desire to see their children just grow to adulthood without dieing of Cholera, disentery, etc... They often just pray that the seeds they've tilled into their ground will get watered from the sky, and not die from drought. Just having a well to draw non-contaminated water is a euphoric desire.
Haiti may or may not be receiving some action from God that drives them to their collective knees, but this catastrophe is a reminder and message to the Western world, that we have strayed, as Israel of old did numerous times, and neglected the basic essentials of what life is all about in a blind crusade to acquire the physical that will one day rust away, or be eaten-away by moths.
Calamities are monumental "tests" that show what people are made of. As we have already read and heard, there are "looters", and dangerous gangs roaming the capital of Haiti as well as the stricken rural areas taking full advantage of this situation. We see that the Haitian populous does have an ethical divide showing itself through this disaster. There are those who are rising up that have no respect for their fellow man/woman/child, and are willing to forego conscience and pillage the "weak" and "down trodden". There is also word coming of Haitians helping other Haitians, in such incredible ways, risking life and limb to save other lives, though they-themselves are pitifully poor by earthly measurements. Indeed they are richer than the materially richest person on earth in God's eyes.
What do we well fed humans do? We debate the reasons for the Haitians receiving this plight.......This is the time when self-intro-spect needs to be considered. We debate if God is good or bad, or if the Haitians deserve punishment or not, and all along, we should be looking in our own mirrors and pointing that index finger at ourselves.
What have we prioritized in our lives? Have we neglected to be thankful, even though we have endured hardships. Have these hardships made us stronger in the right way? I.E. have we come to a point of surrendering our agenda, and allowed our Maker's agenda to fill in the unquenchable void in our souls, that we have been attempting to quench or feed through "things" that will not last the test of eternity?
I will finish with this one special quote from the bible. Paul had a physical affliction that he asked God to take away from him. Paul said that he prayed many times, asking God to lift this "thorn in the flesh" from him.. There has been much speculation as what this "thorn in the flesh" was, but no one knows. All we know, is that it was a major "bother" to Paul. Now Paul was a man who had endured numerous lashes, beatings, imprisonments yet never complained of those instances, yet he asked for this physical malady/thorn-in-the-flesh to be removed.
God answer was a flat, "No". Instead of entreating God anymore, Paul said, "Ok. It's answered, and the answer is no. I'm fine with that.". Now what Paul said after that is profound, and foreign to our secularized society here in the USA and the Western world. Paul basically said, since this malady weakens me, "I will be satisfied in my weakness, as it is God's way of becoming the strength in me". I paraphrased the bible verse, but it means the same. Paul taught a humungous lesson to mankind in those few verses.
God can't be God in man's life until man gives up the reigns and move's aside and lets God take the steering wheel, throttle, brake pedal, and also the map of ones life/soul.
Man will not give up the reigns to God except by being brought to his/her's knees.........Call it giving up........Call it repentance........whatever........It is raising one's white flag, and admitting that one has been one's own captain, navigator, pilot/co-pilot of one's life long enough.
The AA Serenity prayer says it all.
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen.
--Reinhold Niebuhr