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HogTrash
02-03-2010, 01:49 PM
'Jonathan Livingston Seagull'

Beautiful music, scenery, theme and Jonathan of course.

If you only have time for one video, make it the bottom one.

Sometimes the ending can tell the story in only three minutes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgkk0Hdwmo8&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDbToBxhZUo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHC-85nLbkA&feature=related

SassyLady
02-03-2010, 02:08 PM
This book really helped my 10 yr old granddaughter develop a completely different outlook on life and that having goals, even ones that her peers don't understand, are important.........and that working hard for those goals, and the things she will learn in the process, is just as important as the end result.

HogTrash
02-03-2010, 02:50 PM
Besides the messege to not be afraid to break with the crowd to pursue your dreams or whenever a stuation warrants dissent, there is also a very strong spiritual messege.

I believe JLS is a timeless book that is appropriate and inspiring for all ages...I have re-read it several times in my life and am always moved by Jonathans conviction and courage.

There has always been a copy at my home and I have encouraged my children to read it from a young age and to re-read it as they grow older.

Sadly, many of us encourage our children to abandon their uniqueness and dreams and to follow the flock.

I believe the simplicity of Jonathan contains great wisdom for the old as well as the very young.

May we all endeavour to fly as fast, as high and as far as our 'wings' will carry us.

Mr. P
02-03-2010, 03:09 PM
And excellent book! I read it shortly after it was published, yes that was long ago. It did have a very positive affect on my life.

I loaned it to a friend in the 70s and never got it back.:laugh2:

SassyLady
02-03-2010, 03:20 PM
Besides the messege to not be afraid to break with the crowd to pursue your dreams or whenever a stuation warrants dissent, there is also a very strong spiritual messege.

I believe JLS is a timeless book that is appropriate and inspiring for all ages...I have re-read it several times in my life and am always moved by Jonathans conviction and courage.

There has always been a copy at my home and I have encouraged my children to read it from a young age and to re-read it as they grow older.

Sadly, many of us encourage our children to abandon their uniqueness and dreams and to follow the flock.

I believe the simplicity of Jonathan contains great wisdom for the old as well as the very young.

May we all endeavour to fly as fast, as high and as far as our 'wings' will carry us.

My granddaughter said something so profound that it made my heart swell to a breaking point I was so proud of her:

One of the girls at her school, when she was in 4th grade, told her that if she continued to dress the way she does (she wears mismatched socks, one short, one long, stripes on one and polka dots on another.....you get the picture).......then she would never "fit in". She said, if I dress the way you and the rest of the girls do then "I will never stand out". She is definitely not the type to be caught up in peer pressure............she's 10, almost 11, and still believes in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, Tinkerbell and her clan, and all mythical creatures! And very smart........she goes to one of the hardest charter schools in the US - Basis of Tucson (she calls it a school for nerds!).

Anyway, when we read the book together last summer she was fascinated and totally understood .......... plus she has an Uncle Johnathon and it helped her relate.

PS - if you've ever seen the movie "Bridge to Terabithia" you'll understand where she gets her current perspective.

HogTrash
02-03-2010, 04:36 PM
And excellent book! I read it shortly after it was published, yes that was long ago. It did have a very positive affect on my life.

I loaned it to a friend in the 70s and never got it back.:laugh2:Re-read JLS and I garauntee you will love it all over again and most definately catch something you didn't notice before.


My granddaughter said something so profound that it made my heart swell to a breaking point I was so proud of her:

One of the girls at her school, when she was in 4th grade, told her that if she continued to dress the way she does (she wears mismatched socks, one short, one long, stripes on one and polka dots on another.....you get the picture).......then she would never "fit in". She said, if I dress the way you and the rest of the girls do then "I will never stand out". She is definitely not the type to be caught up in peer pressure............she's 10, almost 11, and still believes in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, Tinkerbell and her clan, and all mythical creatures! And very smart........she goes to one of the hardest charter schools in the US - Basis of Tucson (she calls it a school for nerds!).

Anyway, when we read the book together last summer she was fascinated and totally understood .......... plus she has an Uncle Johnathon and it helped her relate.

PS - if you've ever seen the movie "Bridge to Terabithia" you'll understand where she gets her current perspective.I did not see the movie but I love your grandaughters spirit which is no doubt a tribute to her genes and upbringing.

Agnapostate
02-03-2010, 06:37 PM
she's 10, almost 11, and still believes in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, Tinkerbell and her clan, and all mythical creatures! And very smart........

Clearly. ;)

SassyLady
02-03-2010, 11:32 PM
Clearly. ;)

Are you saying people with great imaginations are not? How old were you when you started studying Latin?

Mr. P
02-04-2010, 12:13 AM
Are you saying people with great imaginations are not? How old were you when you started studying Latin?

I was a senior in HS...and FAILED miserably! I did learn a good deal of Greek mythology in that class though.

SassyLady
02-04-2010, 12:35 AM
I was a senior in HS...and FAILED miserably! I did learn a good deal of Greek mythology in that class though.

She is taking Latin and studying the classics - and she is only 10. But, because she is still innocent of the world and still believes in fairies, santa and the tooth fairy -- Aggie doesn't think she is smart........

She is also taking martial arts as her P.E. class .... she already has to move from classroom to classroom for each subject so she went through the whole freshman "getting a locker and being responsible for taking my books to class" thing at the age of 10. So, she is growing up fast in some ways and staying innocent in others.

The new movie coming out - The Lightning Thief with Percy Jackson is her new favorite.

PS - she has a crush on Johnny Depp - so Noir - take note!

SassyLady
02-04-2010, 05:37 AM
Here is a picture of the girl that reminds me of my granddaughter....this is from the movie.


http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/Bridge-to-Terabithia-11.jpg

PostmodernProphet
02-04-2010, 08:27 AM
Are you saying people with great imaginations are not? How old were you when you started studying Latin?

lol, put it in perspective......you wouldn't want your granddaughter to be more like Agno, would you?.....

chloe
02-04-2010, 09:21 AM
Who lives that kind of spirituality>?

HogTrash
02-04-2010, 01:12 PM
hmm a book about forgiveness & love

Who lives that kind of spirituality>?Jonathan Livingston Seagull is about love and forgiveness but even more-so it is a tribute to courage, conviction and sacrifice.

But without a doubt the most amazing lesson is Jonathan's spiritual edification which was an unexpected consequence of his love for flight.

Jonathan was sure there had to be more than the eat, sleep and reproduce daily life that the flock accepted without question, and was ridiculed and shunned because of it.

Jonathan causes me to pity those who believe life is nothing more than a cosmic accident and the speck of time alotted us is all there is to an otherwise meaningless existance.

Have faith people and do not be afraid for there is more to life than meets the eye...Much more.

chloe
02-04-2010, 01:27 PM
Jonathan Livingston Seagull is about love and forgiveness but even more-so it is a tribute to courage, conviction and sacrifice.

But without a doubt the most amazing lesson is Jonathan's spiritual edification which was an unexpected consequence of his love for flight.

Jonathan was sure there had to be more than the eat, sleep and reproduce daily life that the flock accepted without question, and was ridiculed and shunned because of it.

Jonathan causes me to pity those who believe life is nothing more than a cosmic accident and the speck of time alotted us is all there is to an otherwise meaningless existance.

Have faith people and do not be afraid for there is more to life than meets the eye...Much more.

I believe in Jesus, I have always known there is more. Hey PMP I like your new avatar its cute . Anyway I think the sentiments of your JLS story JLS is great Hog trash. So is the book written by a hippie ?

SassyLady
02-04-2010, 03:04 PM
lol, put it in perspective......you wouldn't want your granddaughter to be more like Agno, would you?.....

Would never happen........she has a heart.

chloe
02-04-2010, 03:51 PM
He probably was mistreated alot. Anyways Agna is doing exactly what the story says to do, he is being himself ! Isn't that what the moral of the story is?

SassyLady
02-04-2010, 04:12 PM
He probably was mistreated alot. Anyways Agna is doing exactly what the story says to do, he is being himself ! Isn't that what the moral of the story is?

Yes ......and the moral of the story is to do it without intentionally demoralizing others in order to be yourself.

Abbey Marie
02-04-2010, 05:10 PM
Yes ......and the moral of the story is to do it without intentionally demoralizing others in order to be yourself.

AMEN! :clap:

chloe
02-04-2010, 05:37 PM
Yes ......and the moral of the story is to do it without intentionally demoralizing others in order to be yourself.

Yesh nobody should feel demoralized. Yet, that happens to everyone whether its intentional or not. My Post said I believe Agna does have a heart and he does live his life like the moral of the story suggests we should. You might have your feelings hurt from him perosnally, and that I could understand. He is younger than Noir so maybe he says things immaturely. Still that does not mean he doesn't have a heart. In my opinion it means just the opposite, see I think racism is very dividing, I think it tells a person my race is better then yours and so that means you will never be good enough in my eyes because your an inferior race. If AGnapostate has experienced that attitude here he may have felt demoralized too. Yet he may not be able to overlook it and turn the other cheek because he is still young. However, I guess we all have been guilty of being insensitive from time to time but that doesn't mean we don;t have hearts. ( will I get clapping hands for this....wink):cool:

SassyLady
02-04-2010, 06:12 PM
Yesh nobody should feel demoralized. Yet, that happens to everyone whether its intentional or not. My Post said I believe Agna does have a heart and he does live his life like the moral of the story suggests we should. You might have your feelings hurt from him perosnally, and that I could understand. He is younger than Noir so maybe he says things immaturely. Still that does not mean he doesn't have a heart. In my opinion it means just the opposite, see I think racism is very dividing, I think it tells a person my race is better then yours and so that means you will never be good enough in my eyes because your an inferior race. If AGnapostate has experienced that attitude here he may have felt demoralized too. Yet he may not be able to overlook it and turn the other cheek because he is still young. However, I guess we all have been guilty of being insensitive from time to time but that doesn't mean we don;t have hearts. ( will I get clapping hands for this....wink):cool:

Chloe .... I have not seen all of Aggie's posts.......and we have had some very robust debates...........however, I have never said a word about any member of Aggies family........when he shows up and makes his little snarky remarks about someone in my family, he is showing his true "heart" or "character".

If you want to defend him and his immaturity then go ahead........but as of this point I have yet to see this "heart" you seem to connect with.

Perhaps his "heart" would show through if he wasn't so invested in ramming his "race" and "victimization of the Amerindians" down everyone else's throat at every opportunity.

I think he's an extremely intelligent person, and I've read some of his postings on several other boards that supports both his intelligence and immaturity, and I have to tell you that I have yet to see this "heart" you speak of.

BTW - I am very much a Mama Bear when it comes to my family. I think one of the ways people get to know and trust others is how much they are willing to share pieces of themselves........one of those is by relating stories of one's family.......and if anyone should direct snide remarks towards a family member of one of the posters, then it crosses over the line.

HogTrash
02-04-2010, 06:23 PM
I believe in Jesus, I have always known there is more. Hey PMP I like your new avatar its cute . Anyway I think the sentiments of your JLS story JLS is great Hog trash. So is the book written by a hippie ?The author, Richard Bach was a US Air Force jet pilot.

Mr Bach's spiritual beliefs and love of flying was his inspiration for Jonathan Livingston Seagull.

HogTrash
02-04-2010, 06:42 PM
Did you watch the three JLS videos I posted?

All three together only total about 15 minutes and are in my opinion extremely well made.

Unknown to me, a movie was made around the theme of the book with music score by Neil Diamond.

I just discovered it last week...If you haven't watched them yet I wish you would...In fact, everybody should.

chloe
02-04-2010, 08:21 PM
Chloe .... I have not seen all of Aggie's posts.......and we have had some very robust debates...........however, I have never said a word about any member of Aggies family........when he shows up and makes his little snarky remarks about someone in my family, he is showing his true "heart" or "character".

If you want to defend him and his immaturity then go ahead........but as of this point I have yet to see this "heart" you seem to connect with.

Perhaps his "heart" would show through if he wasn't so invested in ramming his "race" and "victimization of the Amerindians" down everyone else's throat at every opportunity.

I think he's an extremely intelligent person, and I've read some of his postings on several other boards that supports both his intelligence and immaturity, and I have to tell you that I have yet to see this "heart" you speak of.

BTW - I am very much a Mama Bear when it comes to my family. I think one of the ways people get to know and trust others is how much they are willing to share pieces of themselves........one of those is by relating stories of one's family.......and if anyone should direct snide remarks towards a family member of one of the posters, then it crosses over the line.

Yes most people feel protective or their family and friends. Not everyone feels comfortable to publicly share personal stories. However, since you don't know anything about Agna and obviously his remarks have hurt your feelings, you might not want to share personal stories online at places he can read them or maybe you should get him banned for those sarcasms. I used to be afraid of agnapostate he had made a thread at a different political board that very much disturbed me. I decided to step out of my comfort zone and try to get to know him. So now my own experience has been different then yours. I see he does have a heart. Since not everyone shares their feelings publicly I can see how you would feel he doesn't have a heart. An apology would be nice but I'm doubting you will get that. Do you think if you found out that someone who was very meaningful and important in his life had been killed by separatists that hated Indians you would feel differently towards him for having so much compassion about his heritage? Just curious. Sometimes people don't share things because they are still attached to the pain of whatever ails them. They can't risk being hurt by strangers because they are still not over it. You are a strong woman, you have overcome many obstacles and have a lot of love to give freely. I am very sorry Agna's remarks have hurt you, you don't derserve it.

chloe
02-04-2010, 08:24 PM
Did you watch the three JLS videos I posted?

All three together only total about 15 minutes and are in my opinion extremely well made.

Unknown to me, a movie was made around the theme of the book with music score by Neil Diamond.

I just discovered it last week...If you haven't watched them yet I wish you would...In fact, everybody should.


I have not watched all 3 videos, your original post said the last one was the most important. I watched it and read a synopsis of the meaning.

Abbey Marie
02-04-2010, 08:53 PM
Yes most people feel protective or their family and friends. Not everyone feels comfortable to publicly share personal stories. However, since you don't know anything about Agna and obviously his remarks have hurt your feelings, you might not want to share personal stories online at places he can read them or maybe you should get him banned for those sarcasms. I used to be afraid of agnapostate he had made a thread at a different political board that very much disturbed me. I decided to step out of my comfort zone and try to get to know him. So now my own experience has been different then yours. I see he does have a heart. Since not everyone shares their feelings publicly I can see how you would feel he doesn't have a heart. An apology would be nice but I'm doubting you will get that. Do you think if you found out that someone who was very meaningful and important in his life had been killed by separatists that hated Indians you would feel differently towards him for having so much compassion about his heritage? Just curious. Sometimes people don't share things because they are still attached to the pain of whatever ails them. They can't risk being hurt by strangers because they are still not over it. You are a strong woman, you have overcome many obstacles and have a lot of love to give freely. I am very sorry Agna's remarks have hurt you, you don't derserve it.


I think I will weigh in here since I clapped, haha.

I am sure that everyone on here has some story they could tell that might make us understand their behavior better. I have stories; I am sure that you do too. The thing is, we are not responsible for digging deep to find out why people behave badly. On the contrary, they are responsible for behaving better.

If someone ridicules or insults a DP member's family, they know it can be hurtful, and don't care. The person posting about their own family is openly putting something personal out there. Not treating that with respect is a breach of trust and of decorum that imo, has no excuse, regardless of their past.

I was interested to learn that Aggie is younger than Noir. That explains a lot right there. No digging required, lol.

SassyLady
02-04-2010, 08:59 PM
I think I will weigh in here since I clapped, haha.

I am sure that everyone on here has some story they could tell that might make us understand their behavior better. I have stories; I am sure that you do too. The thing is, we are not responsible for digging deep to find out why people behave badly. On the contrary, they are responsible for behaving better.

If someone ridicules or insults a DP member's family, they know it can be hurtful, and don't care. The person posting about their own family is openly putting something personal out there. Not treating that with respect is a breach of trust and of decorum that imo, has no excuse, regardless of their past.

I was interested to learn that Aggie is younger than Noir. That explains a lot right there. No digging required, lol.

Now I know why I always think of you Abby when I need some good, objective and reasonable advice about something. I know that I would be a much better person if I had grown up with you around to mentor me.

Thank you for putting things in perspective.

chloe
02-04-2010, 09:11 PM
I think I will weigh in here since I clapped, haha.

I am sure that everyone on here has some story they could tell that might make us understand their behavior better. I have stories; I am sure that you do too. The thing is, we are not responsible for digging deep to find out why people behave badly. On the contrary, they are responsible for behaving better.

If someone ridicules or insults a DP member's family, they know it can be hurtful, and don't care. The person posting about their own family is openly putting something personal out there. Not treating that with respect is a breach of trust and of decorum that imo, has no excuse, regardless of their past.

I was interested to learn that Aggie is younger than Noir. That explains a lot right there. No digging required, lol.


My original post only said that I believe agna has a heart and that he does live true to his own being like the story said to do. I don't know anything about you, so if you intentionallly or unintentionally hurt my feelings obviously I would react to it in whatever way is my style, I am not responsible to know why you behave the way you do or vice versa you are not responsible to know why I share or dont share things about myself or why I behave the way I do that is true. If someone purposely hurts someone or ridicules them publcily its not nice, but it does seem to happen at message boards.

I think Mrs K is a strong nice lady and so she seems to understand that some people hurt so much they aren't able to discern when they have hurt others or they are unable to make ammends even when they know they shouldn't have said or done something. She works in groupsnof traumatized people I think she understands those defenses.

I suggested if its a big deal that she have Agna banned, and DP certainly has that right, DP can decide what they want to do about that. However again my original post was that

I believe Agna does have a heart and he actually is an oddball who lives hisl life out in the way he feels the need to express it, which is the message I got out of the JLS story.

SassyLady
02-04-2010, 09:24 PM
My original post only said that I believe agna has a heart and that he does live true to his own being like the story said to do. I don't know anything about you, so if you intentionallly or unintentionally hurt my feelings obviously I would react to it in whatever way is my style, I am not responsible to know why you behave the way you do or vice versa you are not responsible to know why I share or dont share things about myself or why I behave the way I do that is true. If someone purposely hurts someone or ridicules them publcily its not nice, but it does seem to happen at message boards.

I think Mrs K is a strong nice lady and so she seems to understand that some people hurt so much they aren't able to discern when they have hurt others or they are unable to make ammends even when they know they shouldn't have said or done something. She works in groupsnof traumatized people I think she understands those defenses.

I suggested if its a big deal that she have Agna banned, and DP certainly has that right, DP can decide what they want to do about that. However again my original post was that

I believe Agna does have a heart and he actually is an oddball who lives hisl life out in the way he feels the need to express it, which is the message I got out of the JLS story.

I would never ask to have anyone banned and I would never ask for an apology. Apologies have to come from the heart and not be something one is cooerced or shamed into making. :poke:

Aggie can say what he wants because this is a public forum. If I found the environment here to be too toxic I would be the one to leave. However, I have the right to call him out for what he said and after that it's his move. :cheers2:

And, to set the record straight, my feelings weren't hurt.....I was more shocked than anything. :eek:

However, it's over and the important thing is that my granddaughter will never know anything of this so her feelings are protected. The beautiful thing is that everyone now knows a little more about each other and how we feel about some things.

chloe
02-04-2010, 09:28 PM
I would never ask to have anyone banned and I would never ask for an apology. Apologies have to come from the heart and not be something one is cooerced or shamed into making. :poke:

Aggie can say what he wants because this is a public forum. If I found the environment here to be too toxic I would be the one to leave. However, I have the right to call him out for what he said and after that it's his move. :cheers2:

And, to set the record straight, my feelings weren't hurt.....I was more shocked than anything. :eek:

However, it's over and the important thing is that my granddaughter will never know anything of this so her feelings are protected. The beautiful thing is that everyone now knows a little more about each other and how we feel about some things.

Agreed thats how I handle it too, I leave if I get nothing positive from a board.

Abbey Marie
02-04-2010, 09:30 PM
Ok, you two need to stop all this "leaving' talk. I simply won't have it. :coffee:

SassyLady
02-04-2010, 09:35 PM
Ok, you two need to stop all this "leaving' talk. I simply won't have it. :coffee:

Are you kidding Abbey ..... I'm learning way too much from Noir to leave!!! :cheers2:

He taught me how to post pictures!!! :clap::clap:

And debating with everyone here keeps my debating and typing skills current!

HogTrash
02-05-2010, 09:59 AM
Yes most people feel protective or their family and friends. Not everyone feels comfortable to publicly share personal stories. However, since you don't know anything about Agna and obviously his remarks have hurt your feelings, you might not want to share personal stories online at places he can read them or maybe you should get him banned for those sarcasms. I used to be afraid of agnapostate he had made a thread at a different political board that very much disturbed me. I decided to step out of my comfort zone and try to get to know him. So now my own experience has been different then yours. I see he does have a heart. Since not everyone shares their feelings publicly I can see how you would feel he doesn't have a heart. An apology would be nice but I'm doubting you will get that. Do you think if you found out that someone who was very meaningful and important in his life had been killed by separatists that hated Indians you would feel differently towards him for having so much compassion about his heritage? Just curious. Sometimes people don't share things because they are still attached to the pain of whatever ails them. They can't risk being hurt by strangers because they are still not over it. You are a strong woman, you have overcome many obstacles and have a lot of love to give freely. I am very sorry Agna's remarks have hurt you, you don't derserve it.Separatist do not murder people...Once again you have confused them with supremist.

Apparently you have chosen to ignore my attempts to explain the difference in a "separatist" and a "supremist".


My original post only said that I believe agna has a heart and that he does live true to his own being like the story said to do. I don't know anything about you, so if you intentionallly or unintentionally hurt my feelings obviously I would react to it in whatever way is my style, I am not responsible to know why you behave the way you do or vice versa you are not responsible to know why I share or dont share things about myself or why I behave the way I do that is true. If someone purposely hurts someone or ridicules them publcily its not nice, but it does seem to happen at message boards.

I think Mrs K is a strong nice lady and so she seems to understand that some people hurt so much they aren't able to discern when they have hurt others or they are unable to make ammends even when they know they shouldn't have said or done something. She works in groupsnof traumatized people I think she understands those defenses.

I suggested if its a big deal that she have Agna banned, and DP certainly has that right, DP can decide what they want to do about that. However again my original post was that

I believe Agna does have a heart and he actually is an oddball who lives hisl life out in the way he feels the need to express it, which is the message I got out of the JLS story.Two reasons why Aggy should not be banned...

[1] Good or bad, like it or not, he does represent a group of people in America and the greater the diversity of ideas and opinions, the more successful a political forum will be.

[2] Yes he is an idiot, but there are many idiots and we have to coexist with them in the real world...What we learn about them here will prepare us to deal with them out there.

chloe
02-05-2010, 11:07 AM
Separatist do not murder people...Once again you have confused them with supremist.

Apparently you have chosen to ignore my attempts to explain the difference in a "separatist" and a "supremist".

Two reasons why Aggy should not be banned...

[1] Good or bad, like it or not, he does represent a group of people in America and the greater the diversity of ideas and opinions, the more successful a political forum will be.

[2] Yes he is an idiot, but there are many idiots and we have to coexist with them in the real world...What we learn about them here will prepare us to deal with them out there.

k

HogTrash
02-05-2010, 11:29 AM
kNow get your butt to post #1 and watch all three videos [1-2-3] right now young lady! :popcorn:

Abbey Marie
02-05-2010, 11:31 AM
And back on topic- I loved that book, had our daughter read it, she loved it, and just a month or so ago bought myself a new hardcover version just because...

I need to check out that film version.

Thanks HT for the tip. :thumb:

HogTrash
02-08-2010, 09:27 PM
And back on topic- I loved that book, had our daughter read it, she loved it, and just a month or so ago bought myself a new hardcover version just because...

I need to check out that film version.

Thanks HT for the tip. :thumb:I believe I'll check out the video store myself to see if they have a copy.

If nothing else, the Neil Diamond sound track will probably be worth it.