Libertarians and other interested parties

[DragonStryk72]

Okay, this sort of morphed out of CWN's thread about him retiring outside the US, but having a discussion about this would totally bogart his thread, so I figure moving it here is the best option.

So, like I mentioned on the thread previously, it seems for the most part like we all talk about our politics, but I don't see anyone organizing, and this is really the main problem as I see it, is that we need don't so much pull together more, in that we need to get more active in pursuit of our goals.

I think one key for the Libertarian party is to get together with the Tea Party people, since they are our natural allies in this fight. What do you guys think? And do you have any other ways we could form up more?

[Gaffer]

As I have said many times. We need to change congress. That is where the real power of the people lies. Libertarians are all about the presidency which would be powerless without congressional support. The Tea Party could become a whole new political party unto itself. Especially if everybody gets behind it.

[crin63]

As I have said many times. We need to change congress. That is where the real power of the people lies. Libertarians are all about the presidency which would be powerless without congressional support. The Tea Party could become a whole new political party unto itself. Especially if everybody gets behind it.

Personally I think the Tea Party movement needs to take over the Republican Party not merge with Libertarians. Libertarians are not going to get a lot of constitutional conservatives because they see them as the Party of Larry Flint and Planned Parenthood. If Libertarians drop that title and become the Tea Party, they might have a chance.

I am constantly informing and educating people with my Facebook posts and my email group of about 300 Californians. Right now I am doing my best to keep Meg Whitman from getting the nod from republicans to run for governor. I'm contacting her opponents and pointing out issues that 40,000 California gun owners are concerned about. A lot of California gun owners are going to vote for Jerry Brown if someone else doesn't step up to defend 2nd Amendment rights here in California. Many believe that if we lose our 2nd Amendment rights then all else will eventually fail anyway and that makes 2nd Amendment issues front and center. If Poizner and Nightingale don't step up loudly in support of guns then it will be Meg Whitman or Jerry brown as the next governor.

[Gaffer]

Personally I think the Tea Party movement needs to take over the Republican Party not merge with Libertarians. Libertarians are not going to get a lot of constitutional conservatives because they see them as the Party of Larry Flint and Planned Parenthood. If Libertarians drop that title and become the Tea Party, they might have a chance.

I am constantly informing and educating people with my Facebook posts and my email group of about 300 Californians. Right now I am doing my best to keep Meg Whitman from getting the nod from republicans to run for governor. I'm contacting her opponents and pointing out issues that 40,000 California gun owners are concerned about. A lot of California gun owners are going to vote for Jerry Brown if someone else doesn't step up to defend 2nd Amendment rights here in California. Many believe that if we lose our 2nd Amendment rights then all else will eventually fail anyway and that makes 2nd Amendment issues front and center. If Poizner and Nightingale don't step up loudly in support of guns then it will be Meg Whitman or Jerry brown as the next governor.

I remember when Brown was governor last time. He's the one that got Cal start on the road to where it's at today. You sure don't need him back.

[DragonStryk72]

As I have said many times. We need to change congress. That is where the real power of the people lies. Libertarians are all about the presidency which would be powerless without congressional support. The Tea Party could become a whole new political party unto itself. Especially if everybody gets behind it.

Well, we likely couldn't get Senate seats as of yet, but for the Libertarians, we could likely fare better in the House of Representatives, since that is based around a smaller constituency, and thus is easier to effect.

The main Libertarian party site is actually advocating for Libertarians to start taking as many small offices as they can, so that people have chance to see us in action. I know the Tidewater Libertarians tend to back certain candidates, but honestly, they are not putting up anyone for office themselves, which I'm hoping I can talk about at the next meeting.

[HogTrash]

First I would like to know if everyone agrees that there should be no amnesty for anyone who overstayed a temporary visa or entered the US illegally, no exceptions.

[crin63]

First I would like to know if everyone agrees that there should be no amnesty for anyone who overstayed a temporary visa or entered the US illegally, no exceptions.

I agree. They should be deported with no opportunity to return since they violated our laws to get here and went around those who were/are patiently waiting to come here legally.

We should have the Israeli's advise us on building a wall along our southern border and how to properly address security. If anyone knows how to protect their borders its the Israeli's.

[HogTrash]

I agree. They should be deported with no opportunity to return since they violated our laws to get here and went around those who were/are patiently waiting to come here legally.

We should have the Israeli's advise us on building a wall along our southern border and how to properly address security. If anyone knows how to protect their borders its the Israeli's.Expensive border security is not necessary...Create harsh penalties for anyone giving a job or renting a house or apartment to illegals and end all medical, education and government assistance to illegal aliens and they will not only stop coming but the ones already here will self deport.

All their possessions other than their clothes should be confiscated and auctioned off to cover the expenses they have caused the American taxpayer before they leave.

The law that makes any child born in America a citizen should be repealed and any child already born here to illegal aliens should have their citizenship nullified to end the delimma of what to do with these anchor children.

Those who are promoting amnesty have also promised to open the flood gates to allow the extended families of those illegal aliens to enter the US and also be granted citizenship...That includes mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters and their wives, husbands and children.

Within less than a generation we will have more than 20,000,000 new latino citizens...The voting balance will forever be unbalanced, destroying political diversity in America...These latinos will be predominately democrat voters who will hasten the utopia that the marxists have long dreamed of.

Amnesty must never happen...It will bring about the end of America as we know it.

[Joyful HoneyBee]

.... they see them as the Party of Larry Flint and Planned Parenthood. If Libertarians drop that title and become the Tea Party, they might have a chance.

...

I think it is too bad that so many people see it that way and it is the ongoing verbal exchange of this perception that keeps it going. The party is actually about freedom of choice. Interestingly enough, freedom of choice is what everyone wants for themselves, but not for others. Herein lies a big problem. How can people expect to function under such slanted attitudes? The attitude is: I want my freedom to make my own mistakes, but I will enact legislation that prevents you from making your own mistakes. See....until we can get over that hump, true freedom is a pipe dream at best.

[DragonStryk72]

First I would like to know if everyone agrees that there should be no amnesty for anyone who overstayed a temporary visa or entered the US illegally, no exceptions.

Actually, it's more of a matter of going more hardcore against the businesses that hire illegals, than going after the individual illegals. We know where the businesses are, and we can much more easily stop it there. It's simple: Establish a significant fine, along with stripping their business license, either temporarily, or permanently depending on degree of infraction.

[DragonStryk72]

I think it is too bad that so many people see it that way and it is the ongoing verbal exchange of this perception that keeps it going. The party is actually about freedom of choice. Interestingly enough, freedom of choice is what everyone wants for themselves, but not for others. Herein lies a big problem. How can people expect to function under such slanted attitudes? The attitude is: I want my freedom to make my own mistakes, but I will enact legislation that prevents you from making your own mistakes. See....until we can get over that hump, true freedom is a pipe dream at best.

Exactly right. The thing is though that we need to directly confront that point of view, and get people to see what it is we're talking about. I think that is almost what people see as the "flaw" of the Libertarian Party, that we require a vastly greater degree of personal responsibility than any other way of government, and everyone looks around them, and sees the least responsible person around them.

[HogTrash]

Actually, it's more of a matter of going more hardcore against the businesses that hire illegals, than going after the individual illegals. We know where the businesses are, and we can much more easily stop it there. It's simple: Establish a significant fine, along with stripping their business license, either temporarily, or permanently depending on degree of infraction.You must have missed post #8.


Expensive border security is not necessary...Create harsh penalties for anyone giving a job or renting a house or apartment to illegals and end all medical, education and government assistance to illegal aliens and they will not only stop coming but the ones already here will self deport.

All their possessions other than their clothes should be confiscated and auctioned off to cover the expenses they have caused the American taxpayer before they leave.

The law that makes any child born in America a citizen should be repealed and any child already born here to illegal aliens should have their citizenship nullified to end the delimma of what to do with these anchor children.

Those who are promoting amnesty have also promised to open the flood gates to allow the extended families of those illegal aliens to enter the US and also be granted citizenship...That includes mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters and their wives, husbands and children.

Within less than a generation we will have more than 20,000,000 new latino citizens...The voting balance will forever be unbalanced, destroying political diversity in America...These latinos will be predominately democrat voters who will hasten the utopia that the marxists have long dreamed of.

Amnesty must never happen...It will bring about the end of America as we know it.

[crin63]

I think it is too bad that so many people see it that way and it is the ongoing verbal exchange of this perception that keeps it going. The party is actually about freedom of choice. Interestingly enough, freedom of choice is what everyone wants for themselves, but not for others. Herein lies a big problem. How can people expect to function under such slanted attitudes? The attitude is: I want my freedom to make my own mistakes, but I will enact legislation that prevents you from making your own mistakes. See....until we can get over that hump, true freedom is a pipe dream at best.


Exactly right. The thing is though that we need to directly confront that point of view, and get people to see what it is we're talking about. I think that is almost what people see as the "flaw" of the Libertarian Party, that we require a vastly greater degree of personal responsibility than any other way of government, and everyone looks around them, and sees the least responsible person around them.

Me and Emmett have gone through all this (see our one on one debate). While I'm closer to Libertarian than Republican; Libertarians go to far in my opinion. They go beyond personal responsibility to the point of lawlessness. From what I can see the ultimate end of Libertarianism is anarchy which will only lead to a authoritarian domination.