Better to believe in a false God than no God?

[Noir]

Hey guys, just posting this as its popped into my head, i'm am currently in correspondence with a young lady from Bahrain, who has been raised Muslim, but the older she is growing the more oppressive she feels her religion is and to cut a long story short she wants out of it, and all religion for that matter. However, in a twist that i was not expecting, she does not know if she should tell her parents that she is an atheist, or that she wants to convert to another religion. Because even though she knows she does not believe in any Gods she thinks that she will be more of a target of abuse if she becomes atheist. Tis a most horrid position to be in,

and thus i got thinking, what with this being a mainly Christian board, would you rather that your Friend, co-worker, child ect was an atheist and believed in no gods, or was a theist but believed in (as far as you're concerned) the wrong god?

EDIT -I phrased the question badly, it should rather read - What i should of asked is, if a Friend, co-worker, child ect was turning away from the Christian religion, would you rather they became the follower of another religion or an atheist.

[crin63]

I don't want anyone to believe in a false god however those who have had to little to no experience with religion are easier to reach than those messed up by false religions.

[Noir]

I don't want anyone to believe in a false god however those who have had to little to no experience with religion are easier to reach than those messed up by false religions.

Indeed, sorry i hve worded the question wrongly i realise, as it implys they may of been of a 'false' religion or no religion all their life and could convert to christainity,

What i should of asked is, if a Friend, co-worker, child ect was turning away from the Christian religion, would you rather they became the follower of another religion or an atheist.

[crin63]

Indeed, sorry i hve worded the question wrongly i realise, as it implys they may of been of a 'false' religion or no religion all their life and could convert to christainity,

What i should of asked is, if a Friend, co-worker, child ect was turning away from the Christian religion, would you rather they became the follower of another religion or an atheist.

Thats a tough position but I would probably rather they were an athiest because they wouldn't have all that corrupt information of a false religion to have to wade through in the future. Its easier for an athiest to end up seeing there is a God and embracing Him than it is to undo the mess of false religion.

[avatar4321]

Im not of the opinion that simply because someone has a different religion they believe in a different God.

With that said, I think belief is more likely to bring someone to God than disbelief.

[KarlMarx]

"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him" - Voltaire

[jimnyc]

If they are under Shariah law, I'd tell her to be very careful and quiet about leaving the Muslim faith as the punishment for doing so is death.

[Noir]

If they are under Shariah law, I'd tell her to be very careful and quiet about leaving the Muslim faith as the punishment for doing so is death.

Indeedy i have, but she says it no as bad in Bahrain as it is in some nearby countries, but that to become 'atheist' as apsoe to another religion is to invite trouble

[BoogyMan]

Hey guys, just posting this as its popped into my head, i'm am currently in correspondence with a young lady from Bahrain, who has been raised Muslim, but the older she is growing the more oppressive she feels her religion is and to cut a long story short she wants out of it, and all religion for that matter. However, in a twist that i was not expecting, she does not know if she should tell her parents that she is an atheist, or that she wants to convert to another religion. Because even though she knows she does not believe in any Gods she thinks that she will be more of a target of abuse if she becomes atheist. Tis a most horrid position to be in,

and thus i got thinking, what with this being a mainly Christian board, would you rather that your Friend, co-worker, child ect was an atheist and believed in no gods, or was a theist but believed in (as far as you're concerned) the wrong god?

EDIT -I phrased the question badly, it should rather read - What i should of asked is, if a Friend, co-worker, child ect was turning away from the Christian religion, would you rather they became the follower of another religion or an atheist.

Acts 17 pretty much sets man straight on this.


22 ¶ Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars’ hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

[PostmodernProphet]

believers in other gods have just made different choices than I have.......agnostics are okay because they are just admitting they are confused....atheists are illogical.....

[DragonStryk72]

hm, this one is tough, because I would usually say that if she believes in the Atheism, then she should follow her faith, but like you said, it is viewed extremely harshly in Bahrain. Honestly, if her faith is of such importance to her that it is causing her to put herself in such a quandry, then maybe she needs to move somewhere a bit more religiously diverse where she can follow her faith without putting herself in danger.

[Missileman]

hm, this one is tough, because I would usually say that if she believes in the Atheism, then she should follow her faith, but like you said, it is viewed extremely harshly in Bahrain. Honestly, if her faith is of such importance to her that it is causing her to put herself in such a quandry, then maybe she needs to move somewhere a bit more religiously diverse where she can follow her faith without putting herself in danger.

LOL...atheism is not a faith to be believed in. Atheists don't wear religious items or clothing nor do they attend religious ceremonies or services. You can't tell an atheist from a non-atheist from their outward appearance.

Unless you are prepared to argue that non-belief in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, etc are all religions, assuming that is that you don't actually believe in those types of make-believe things, I see no reason to assign anyone's non-belief in your made-up deity the status of a religion.

[Noir]

believers in other gods have just made different choices than I have.......agnostics are okay because they are just admitting they are confused....atheists are illogical.....

Yep, we're all idiots, if only i were more logical and believed in Zues, Ra, or Yahweh

/sark

[Noir]

hm, this one is tough, because I would usually say that if she believes in the Atheism, then she should follow her faith, but like you said, it is viewed extremely harshly in Bahrain. Honestly, if her faith is of such importance to her that it is causing her to put herself in such a quandry, then maybe she needs to move somewhere a bit more religiously diverse where she can follow her faith without putting herself in danger.

Indeedy it is, i'll leave aside the Atheism is a faith bit, as MM has taken that, however, the lady in question is only 15 and so moving will be out of the question for many years.
Though your answer is telling, when the best advice you can give to someone who wants to say 'i don't believe in any Gods' is to move away from your friends and family, it shows some of the true colours of religion.

[PostmodernProphet]

Yep, we're all idiots, if only i were more logical and believed in Zues, Ra, or Yahweh

/sark

if only you were more logical and didn't pretend your beliefs weren't simply faith choices......

[PostmodernProphet]

You can't tell an atheist from a non-atheist from their outward appearance.


you're probably right.....it was a mistake to make all Christians wear pointy hats like the pope's.......

[PostmodernProphet]

I see no reason to assign anyone's non-belief in your made-up deity the status of a religion.

and I see no reason to pretend it's a logical conclusion instead of simply what you have chosen to believe...

[Bob]

It sure sounds like she believes in Something, just doesn't know what. That excludes atheism which believes in nothing.

So, two points:
If she's a Muslim now, then to change out definitely invites serious trouble. Stay quiet.

If she gets exposed to Christianity, then she has a choice: Accept or Refuse. To refuse takes it out of your hands, since she has Free Will. To accept requires a serious dedicationon her part, since she'll be in the minority and, again, invite serious trouble. Again, stay quiet.

To die a myrtyr for Mohammed invites celebration from the Muslim community; to die for Christ is different. I doubt that she'll face a hellacious eternity if she chooses to keep quiet for Christ.

[glockmail]

No real worries Noir because Muslim or atheist you're both going to hell. Not that you'll be able to see or speak to each other. The air, if you could call it that, is putrid, hot and dry so you can't see or speak.

[glockmail]

...That excludes atheism which believes in nothing.

....
Atheists that I've met have more faith then I do. :lol:

[Noir]

It sure sounds like she believes in Something, just doesn't know what. That excludes atheism which believes in nothing.

So, two points:
If she's a Muslim now, then to change out definitely invites serious trouble. Stay quiet.

If she gets exposed to Christianity, then she has a choice: Accept or Refuse. To refuse takes it out of your hands, since she has Free Will. To accept requires a serious dedicationon her part, since she'll be in the minority and, again, invite serious trouble. Again, stay quiet.

To die a myrtyr for Mohammed invites celebration from the Muslim community; to die for Christ is different. I doubt that she'll face a hellacious eternity if she chooses to keep quiet for Christ.

If it sounds like she believes in something then I have done a bad job at representing her, as she has made clear to me she does not.

[Noir]

No real worries Noir because Muslim or atheist you're both going to hell. Not that you'll be able to see or speak to each other. The air, if you could call it that, is putrid, hot and dry so you can't see or speak.

There you are, talking as if you know everying again, that's not a desirable trait you know, yeah?

[glockmail]

There you are, talking as if you know everying again, that's not a desirable trait you know, yeah? Not everything, but a lot, including this. :thumb:

[Pericles]

There you are, talking as if you know everying again, that's not a desirable trait you know, yeah?

You know, Noir, that glockmale character is a real talking arse. Perfect example of the kind of person dogmatic religion produces. Why waste your time responding to him?

[PostmodernProphet]

You know, Noir, that glockmale character is a real talking arse. Perfect example of the kind of person dogmatic religion produces. Why waste your time responding to him?

we certainly know YOU don't waste your time responding....you've run away from every question I've ever asked you.....

[Pericles]

we certainly know YOU don't waste your time responding....you've run away from every question I've ever asked you.....

Man, are you religious types all the same? I work with a guy like you. He says things to me all the time, straight-faced, that are the exact opposite of the truth, and that I know he knows are the opposite of the truth. He's sure not fooling me; sadly, I guess he's only fooling himself (if he's not an out-and-out hypocrite).

The truth is, that you failed to defend your beliefs, even when the structure of our argument required you to do so. I had even allowed, for the sake of the discussion, to indulge you a little and give a sample of my position; but the burden's always been on you, and will be until you give some reasons. You won't, of course, you dance around without daring to actually engage, that's your style, I get it; but if you're not going to make an argument, there's no way you can logically claim that my views are based purely on "faith."

So, you gonna give me a reason not to ignore you? If not, buzz off, please.

[Noir]

Not everything, but a lot, including this. :thumb:

Oh wise one, i am not worthy /sark.

Srsly, any one who says they 'know' about this are either deluded or an idiot. Take your pick.

But i guess i am being harsh is blaming you, its not your fault, religion has thought you to be that way, for it always speaks in facts, 'Jesus is the Son of God' 'For the lord gave is only Son' 'He is the Lord your God' ect ect...there's never any 'probablys' in there, or 'we think'.

[Noir]

You know, Noir, that glockmale character is a real talking arse. Perfect example of the kind of person dogmatic religion produces. Why waste your time responding to him?

Because if you don't respond, nay matter the sillyness of what they say, they claim victory.

[PostmodernProphet]

Man, are you religious types all the same? I work with a guy like you. He says things to me all the time, straight-faced, that are the exact opposite of the truth, and that I know he knows are the opposite of the truth. He's sure not fooling me; sadly, I guess he's only fooling himself (if he's not an out-and-out hypocrite).

The truth is, that you failed to defend your beliefs, even when the structure of our argument required you to do so. I had even allowed, for the sake of the discussion, to indulge you a little and give a sample of my position; but the burden's always been on you, and will be until you give some reasons. You won't, of course, you dance around without daring to actually engage, that's your style, I get it; but if you're not going to make an argument, there's no way you can logically claim that my views are based purely on "faith."

So, you gonna give me a reason not to ignore you? If not, buzz off, please.

/yawn......you didn't have the balls to answer a simple question....feel free to go back to that thread and respond anytime you manage to grow a pair.....

[PostmodernProphet]

Because if you don't respond, nay matter the sillyness of what they say, they claim victory.

have I ever failed to defend my claims against you, Noir?.....now, Pericles, on the other hand has demonstrated himself to be the penultimate atheist.......he makes his claims, refuses to discuss them and runs away and hides when pressed.....

[glockmail]

You know, Noir, that glockmale character is a real talking arse. Perfect example of the kind of person dogmatic religion produces. Why waste your time responding to him? If you have a problem with me, then address me, asshole. :poke:

[glockmail]

Oh wise one, i am not worthy /sark.

Srsly, any one who says they 'know' about this are either deluded or an idiot. Take your pick.

But i guess i am being harsh is blaming you, its not your fault, religion has thought you to be that way, for it always speaks in facts, 'Jesus is the Son of God' 'For the lord gave is only Son' 'He is the Lord your God' ect ect...there's never any 'probablys' in there, or 'we think'.

You are confused, and it shows in your writing, which is incomprehensible.

[Pericles]

Because if you don't respond, nay matter the sillyness of what they say, they claim victory.

Look, I'm sure you can find better minds to spar with than those fools. And they are fools, Noir; you hardly need feel like you've lost the point to them, when they can't frame a decent thought. There are other folks here - Abbey, say - who it's worth having an exchange with. But if you want a forthright, sustained debate, you should probably look into other forums...

In the last analysis, you've got a sharp mind - you need more of a challenge (and deserve more respect) than you're getting here.

[PostmodernProphet]

But if you want a forthright, sustained debate, you should probably look into other forums...


and stay away from atheists if you want sustained debate......they run and hide when answering the questions requires them to abandon the positions they pretend to hold......

[glockmail]

Look, I'm sure you can find better minds to spar with than those fools. And they are fools, Noir; you hardly need feel like you've lost the point to them, when they can't frame a decent thought. There are other folks here - Abbey, say - who it's worth having an exchange with. But if you want a forthright, sustained debate, you should probably look into other forums...

In the last analysis, you've got a sharp mind - you need more of a challenge (and deserve more respect) than you're getting here.

In other words, find some folks who agree with you so you don't have to defend your point of view.

[Noir]

You are confused, and it shows in your writing, which is incomprehensible.

What on earth was incomprehensible about what i posted?

[Noir]

Look, I'm sure you can find better minds to spar with than those fools. And they are fools, Noir; you hardly need feel like you've lost the point to them, when they can't frame a decent thought. There are other folks here - Abbey, say - who it's worth having an exchange with. But if you want a forthright, sustained debate, you should probably look into other forums...

In the last analysis, you've got a sharp mind - you need more of a challenge (and deserve more respect) than you're getting here.

I believe it was Winston Churchill who said something along the lines of 'In life you must learn that even fools are right sometimes' To say that anyone is not worthy of having an exchange with is a little snobby IMO. And no matter who you debate with, debate itself sharpens you mind and your wit. But i do take your words with the compliments that are implyed with them :beer:

[Pericles]

I believe it was Winston Churchill who said something along the lines of 'In life you must learn that even fools are right sometimes' To say that anyone is not worthy of having an exchange with is a little snobby IMO.

That's all true. But my opinion is based on what I've seen them write here. Shallow reasoning, when it's in fact not also morally repugnant. You might find it worthwhile to spend time with these types now; but as you get older, you probably won't want to keep bothering.


And no matter who you debate with, debate itself sharpens you mind and your wit.

Also true. But a better class of opponent is better for you...

[Noir]

That's all true. But my opinion is based on what I've seen them write here. Shallow reasoning, when it's in fact not also morally repugnant. You might find it worthwhile to spend time with these types now; but as you get older, you probably won't want to keep bothering.

Also true. But a better class of opponent is better for you...

More snobbiness =/
I'm just fine as i am thank-you.

[glockmail]

What on earth was incomprehensible about what i posted?Just everything.