Miss. school prom off after lesbian's date request [Archive] - Debate Policy

LiberalNation

03-10-2010, 10:58 PM

fuckers, sometimes I hate the south. They just singled her out for hate by the whole goddamn school.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_lesbian_prom_date;_ylt=Au3qgeLTaCQBQr9sGlgJUvis 0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNvMTV2cmE2BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwMzEx L3VzX2xlc2JpYW5fcHJvbV9kYXRlBGNjb2RlA21vc3Rwb3B1bG FyBGNwb3MDNARwb3MDMQRwdANob21lX2Nva2UEc2VjA3luX2hl YWRsaW5lX2xpc3QEc2xrA21pc3NzY2hvb2xwcg--

JACKSON, Miss. – A northern Mississippi school district decided Wednesday not to host a high school prom after a lesbian student demanded she be able to attend with her girlfriend and wear a tuxedo.

The Itawamba County school district's policy requires that senior prom dates be of the opposite sex. The American Civil Liberties Union of Mississippi had given the district until Wednesday to change that policy and allow 18-year-old Constance McMillen to escort her girlfriend, who is also a student, to the dance on April 2.

Instead, the school board met and issued a statement announcing it wouldn't host the event at Itawamba County Agricultural High School in Fulton, "due to the distractions to the educational process caused by recent events."

The statement didn't mention McMillen or the ACLU. When asked by The Associated Press if McMillen's demand led to the cancellation, school board attorney Michele Floyd said she could only reference the statement.

"It is our hope that private citizens will organize an event for the juniors and seniors," district officials said in the statement. "However, at this time, we feel that it is in the best interest of the Itawamba County School District, after taking into consideration the education, safety and well being of our students."

Noir

03-10-2010, 11:49 PM

How daft, you wonder how people can be so stupid

DragonStryk72

03-11-2010, 05:09 AM

Alright, it's the bible belt (seperate from the south, since in Florida, this likely wouldn't have happened, LN. Also, I would have allowed, so if we could stop with the unfair stereotypes, that'd be great.), and the girl knew this before she jumped in, but still, there was absolutely no reason to kill the whole prom for it. That's punishing the entire school for one person, and that is never right, the school should know better than that.

As far as it goes, I think they should have conceded the point, to a degree, by allowing the girlfriend, say, but nixing the tux request. This keeps it at least a little bit more "contained", and is a least a little bit less of a spectacle. Oh yeah, LN, you should be prepared to meet HogTrash, no way he's staying away from this thread.

glockmail

03-11-2010, 08:55 AM

Look what two dykes did. They ruined the party for everyone else. :slap:

Nukeman

03-11-2010, 09:12 AM

fuckers, sometimes I hate the south. They just singled her out for hate by the whole goddamn school.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_lesbian_prom_date;_ylt=Au3qgeLTaCQBQr9sGlgJUvis 0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNvMTV2cmE2BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwMzEx L3VzX2xlc2JpYW5fcHJvbV9kYXRlBGNjb2RlA21vc3Rwb3B1bG FyBGNwb3MDNARwb3MDMQRwdANob21lX2Nva2UEc2VjA3luX2hl YWRsaW5lX2xpc3QEc2xrA21pc3NzY2hvb2xwcg--

JACKSON, Miss. – A northern Mississippi school district decided Wednesday not to host a high school prom after a lesbian student demanded she be able to attend with her girlfriend and wear a tuxedo.

."

How daft, you wonder how people can be so stupid

Here's my 2 cents worth.

The school board has to represent ALL students and parents. regardles of where you land in this debate the few should not have to dictate the many. Now this being said the board did the ONLY thing it could do to keep itself LEGALY insulated from lawsuits and other issues. They removed themselves from being the sponsers of this event and essentialy made it a PRIVATE affair that does not have the same rules and regulations that a public sponserd event would have.

I for one do not have a problem if the two girls want to go together but I do agree with the dress code (my sons school had 4 lesbian couples at his semi-formal in Dec and guess what they had on DRESSES). Why does it always have to be flaunted in your face and forced to be accepted.

All the girl had to do was say she would dress accordingly to an established dress code!! Why can she not follow the rules??? Is she special??? Or is she attempting to have preferential treatment do to her orientation???

Noir

03-11-2010, 09:25 AM

Here's my 2 cents worth.

The school board has to represent ALL students and parents. regardles of where you land in this debate the few should not have to dictate the many. Now this being said the board did the ONLY thing it could do to keep itself LEGALY insulated from lawsuits and other issues. They removed themselves from being the sponsers of this event and essentialy made it a PRIVATE affair that does not have the same rules and regulations that a public sponserd event would have.

I for one do not have a problem if the two girls want to go together but I do agree with the dress code (my sons school had 4 lesbian couples at his semi-formal in Dec and guess what they had on DRESSES). Why does it always have to be flaunted in your face and forced to be accepted.

All the girl had to do was say she would dress accordingly to an established dress code!! Why can she not follow the rules??? Is she special??? Or is she attempting to have preferential treatment do to her orientation???

Its not just the dress code

The ACLU said district officials told McMillen she and her girlfriend wouldn't be allowed to arrive together, that she would not be allowed to wear a tuxedo, and that she and her girlfriend might be asked to leave if their presence made any other students "uncomfortable."

Do you agree that the two of the arriving together is 'flaunting' their sexuality? Or that she should be asked to leave because others say they are "uncomfortable"?
I'm all for equal treatment, in which case sure they have to wear dresses, however, no one else may arrive with their date, and if anyone feels "uncomfortable" with anyone else being there, they they should be able to get them removed aswell.

Rules for some, or rules for all? I go for all.

Monkeybone

03-11-2010, 09:27 AM

All the girl had to do was say she would dress accordingly to an established dress code!! Why can she not follow the rules??? Is she special??? Or is she attempting to have preferential treatment do to her orientation???
ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding!!!! we have a winner. why should I conform?!?! i'm unique! conform to me damnit!

Noir

03-11-2010, 09:31 AM

Monkeybone

03-11-2010, 09:35 AM

Is wanting to arrive at the formal with your date asking for preferential treatment?

i just saw where you posted that, so calm down and get off your high horse Noir. Last time i checked I was responding to Nuke, not you... That is what happens when you assu(me). See.. no me in there. Just u.

Now... with that new information, I see the school in the wrong. Who cares if she arrives with her? They gonna be dancing together and leaving together. I highly doubt that this would be a shock to all of the students that go to school with her.

Noir

03-11-2010, 09:39 AM

i just saw where you posted that, so calm down and get off your high horse Noir. Last time i checked I was responding to Nuke, not you... That is what happens when you assu(me). See.. no me in there. Just u.

Now... with that new information, I see the school in the wrong. Who cares if she arrives with her? They gonna be dancing together and leaving together. I highly doubt that this would be a shock to all of the students that go to school with her.

New information? Its in the OP.

Say what? High horse? You posted after my post to nukeman, and supported his post. Ergo i put a point that i directed to nukeman towards yourself aswell.

Monkeybone

03-11-2010, 10:00 AM

New information? Its in the OP.

Say what? High horse? You posted after my post to nukeman, and supported his post. Ergo i put a point that i directed to nukeman towards yourself aswell.

apologies. i read over that exact line.

Posted at the same time, that is why i reposned then, but you just beat me too it by saying how i didn't want them to show up together.

sorry. bad day at work.

Noir

03-11-2010, 10:09 AM

apologies. i read over that exact line.

Posted at the same time, that is why i reposned then, but you just beat me too it by saying how i didn't want them to show up together.

sorry. bad day at work.

Ah i see, nay worries.

Nukeman

03-11-2010, 10:51 AM

Its not just the dress code

Do you agree that the two of the arriving together is 'flaunting' their sexuality? Or that she should be asked to leave because others say they are "uncomfortable"?
I'm all for equal treatment, in which case sure they have to wear dresses, however, no one else may arrive with their date, and if anyone feels "uncomfortable" with anyone else being there, they they should be able to get them removed aswell.

Rules for some, or rules for all? I go for all.Missed that in the OP, No they shouldn't be banned from arriving together!!!

Like I said the school board removed themselves from any liablilty by cancelling the whole thing. With budget cuts they really can't afford a law suit for this type of issue!!! IMHO

Noir

03-11-2010, 10:56 AM

Missed that in the OP, No they shouldn't be banned from arriving together!!!

Like I said the school board removed themselves from any liablilty by cancelling the whole thing. With budget cuts they really can't afford a law suit for this type of issue!!! IMHO

Glad you agree.

Now, do you think they should be able to attend together both wearing dresses?
Because the school board didn't

The Itawamba County school district's policy requires that senior prom dates be of the opposite sex.

Nukeman

03-11-2010, 11:01 AM

Glad you agree.

Now, do you think they should be able to attend together both wearing dresses?
Because the school board didn't

Noir,

I could really give a shit what they do!!!!! It is after all their lives. that being said with dress code than they should have to follow LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!!!!!! PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!:thumb:

Noir

03-11-2010, 11:06 AM

Noir,

I could really give a shit what they do!!!!! It is after all their lives. that being said with dress code than they should have to follow LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!!!!!! PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!:thumb:

Can you quote the part of the OP that shows the dress code was the main problem? I can't see anything about it. (other than the reference inbetween the two unreasonable requests that you yourself have agreed the school were wrong about)

The only thing i can see as the problem was that they were of the same sex.

A Feb. 5 memo to students laid out the criteria for bringing a date to the prom, and one requirement was that the person must be of the opposite sex.

HogTrash

03-11-2010, 11:33 AM

To condone perversion grants validity to immorality which only serves to demoralize civilization.

It is much better that these people keep their sick perversions in the back allies and gutters.

Noir

03-11-2010, 11:38 AM

To condone perversion grants validity to immorality which only serves to demoralize civilization.

It is much better that these people keep their sick perversions in the back allies and gutters.

And on what basis do you judge it to be immoral?

HogTrash

03-11-2010, 11:53 AM

And on what basis do you judge it to be immoral?Oh hell peckerwood, just admit it!...Like most of us guys, you just like to watch two hot babes get it on...No biggie! :thumb:

But that doesn't change the facts enough to make it acceptable behavior and tell our children it's perfectly normal and A-OK.

Noir

03-11-2010, 11:59 AM

Oh hell peckerwood, just admit it!...Like most of us guys, you just like to watch two hot babes get it on...No biggie! :thumb:

But that doesn't change the facts enough to make it acceptable behavior and tell our children it's perfectly normal and A-OK.

Question avoided :laugh2:

I'll try a second time. On what basis do you judge it to be immoral?

SassyLady

03-11-2010, 12:34 PM

Noir

03-11-2010, 12:38 PM

The school laid out the policy before the event - dates had to be of the opposite sex. So, regardless of the dress code, the girls were trying to flaunt their disobedience to the rules. So she sued the school for the right to bring her date and perhaps she thought by wearing a tuxedo it would look like she was of the opposite sex.

I think the school did what they had to do to protect themselves. Rather than give in to one individual and change the rules, of which everyone else had no problem following, they decided to cancel the event.

Good lesson for the kids ....... to have integrity means that things don't always have a happy ending for all.

So because the school laid out the policy, the girls were in the wrong?
Following that logic I can only assume that if the school set out the policy of 'dates must be of the same ethnic race' and a mixed race couple wished to go together then you believe they would be in the wrong and would be trying to flaunt disobedience?...

LiberalNation

03-11-2010, 12:38 PM

sometimes one must stand up for their rights. There is a great tradition of this in our country and it often included civil disobedience. Looks at rosa parks.

Hagbard Celine

03-11-2010, 01:48 PM

"I am a little bummed out about it. I guess it's a decision that had to be made. Either way someone was going to get disappointed — either Constance was or we were," Watson said. "I don't agree with homosexuality, but I can't change what another person thinks or does."

Great Scott! What a sad, dark existence these hillbillies must lead. *shudder* Seven days a week in a nowhere, asshole town in Mississippi and the only thing to look forward to is a weekly trip to their godless, ignorant little church gathering in the dingy building that smells like stale construction paper and vanilla wafers where they can listen to their weekly lecture on the evils of witches who lick snatch and why they shouldn't be allowed to attend the "rhythmic, ceremonial ritual" and drink bad punch in the stinky old gymnasium on the public school campus. I hope these lesbos have the smarts to get out of that hell hole they're living in and move to a place where they can live happy lives free of rednecks. My heart goes out to them and all the kids who have to miss prom just because they were unlucky enough to be born into Mississippi.

DragonStryk72

03-11-2010, 01:57 PM

sometimes one must stand up for their rights. There is a great tradition of this in our country and it often included civil disobedience. Looks at rosa parks.

See we're going to skip my post, LN?

In any case, no the girl shouldn't be allowed to wear the tux, that's just needless attention grabbing nonsense anyhow, although she may have tried for it in response to a rule about dress code of couples.

Noir, don't bother debating Hog, he's not going to come around on his point, and he will just accuse you of having been "indoctrinated", cause it's not like he was indoctrinated to see homosexuals aberrant, it's just everyone else who disagrees with him that's obviously lost their minds. No amount of reasoned debate will alter his opinion, so I would suggest just giving it a miss.

I am christian, and as such, I have absolutely no right whatsoever to judge their actions. that is between them and God, so as long as they aren't making a spectacle of it, then more power to 'em.

LiberalNation

03-11-2010, 02:01 PM

In any case, no the girl shouldn't be allowed to wear the tux, that's just needless attention grabbing nonsense anyhow, although she may have tried for it in response to a rule about dress code of couples.
our prom dress code alowed females to wear slacks. A compromise should have been made. It's like telling rosa parks she can maybe sit in the middle of the bus, but defintitly not in the front white only area.

Hagbard Celine

03-11-2010, 02:04 PM

See we're going to skip my post, LN?

In any case, no the girl shouldn't be allowed to wear the tux, that's just needless attention grabbing nonsense anyhow, although she may have tried for it in response to a rule about dress code of couples.

Noir, don't bother debating Hog, he's not going to come around on his point, and he will just accuse you of having been "indoctrinated", cause it's not like he was indoctrinated to see homosexuals aberrant, it's just everyone else who disagrees with him that's obviously lost their minds. No amount of reasoned debate will alter his opinion, so I would suggest just giving it a miss.

I am christian, and as such, I have absolutely no right whatsoever to judge their actions. that is between them and God, so as long as they aren't making a spectacle of it, then more power to 'em.

Since when did anyone need to be "allowed" to wear anything?
http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1C1CHNB_enUS339US340&tbs=isch:1&sa=1&q=woman+in+tux&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&start=0

I knew a guy who wore a kilt to the prom in highschool. He was big on celtic stuff obviously but he was basically wearing a dress. What's the difference? If someone wanted to wear a burlap sack to prom they could and should! I say forget your sensibilities and your idea of normal. Normal is boring and requires no creativity or imagination. Normal is vanilla wafers. Normal is a PT Cruiser. No one ever got an orgasm from normal. No one ever went to see a blockbuster movie about normal. No one remembers normal. Normal things and people fade into obscurity and lead boring, beige-colored lives.

DragonStryk72

03-11-2010, 02:07 PM

our prom dress code alowed females to wear slacks. A compromise should have been made. It's like telling rosa parks she can maybe sit in the middle of the bus, but defintitly not in the front white only area.

Wow, still nothing about the unfair stereotyping, and this time you clipped around it. Tell me, do you enjoy it when you get called a socialist, or any of the other epitaphs that members of this board, excluding myself, have thrown at you? See I live in the south, and I get really tired of being told how I must think because I live there.

If the school has set down a dress code, then that's that. If she does not like the dress code, then there's not a lot to be said. I'm certain numerous guys would rather not wear a tux, and would instead like to wear their regular clothes. So unless you're proposing the idea of just rid of all dress codes everywhere, then there's really not much you can do. she'll run into that same issue on jobs, so better to get used to it now.

Again, I believe she should have been allowed to go to the dance with her girlfriend, period. the dress code is up to the school, since they are enforcing it equally on both guys and girls.

DragonStryk72

03-11-2010, 02:11 PM

Since when did anyone need to be "allowed" to wear anything?
http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1C1CHNB_enUS339US340&tbs=isch:1&sa=1&q=woman+in+tux&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&start=0

I knew a guy who wore a kilt to the prom in highschool. He was big on celtic stuff obviously but he was basically wearing a dress. What's the difference? If someone wanted to wear a burlap sack to prom they could and should! I say forget your sensibilities and your idea of normal. Normal is boring and requires no creativity or imagination. Normal is vanilla wafers. Normal is a PT Cruiser. No one ever got an orgasm from normal. No one ever went to see a blockbuster movie about normal. No one remembers normal. Normal things and people fade into obscurity and lead boring, beige-colored lives.

I want you to go tell your friend you think he's just wearing a dress. When he finishes beating your ass, you will likely have learned something. A kilt is actual male attire, connected to celtic upbringing. Most likely, he has found the tartan associated with his ancestral clan, and is wearing it as a point of culture. Wearing the tux is not attached to her ancestry, and has no meaning beyond itself, and thus, it would simply be a move toward grabbing extra attention.

She is honestly a lesbian, and that's fine, that has nothing to do with creating a spectacle, but the prom is not the place to decide to do it.

Jeff

03-11-2010, 04:55 PM

Look what two dykes did. They ruined the party for everyone else. :slap:

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Smooth, lol

Noir

03-11-2010, 06:00 PM

If the school has set down a dress code, then that's that. If she does not like the dress code, then there's not a lot to be said. I'm certain numerous guys would rather not wear a tux, and would instead like to wear their regular clothes. So unless you're proposing the idea of just rid of all dress codes everywhere, then there's really not much you can do. she'll run into that same issue on jobs, so better to get used to it now.

Again, I believe she should have been allowed to go to the dance with her girlfriend, period. the dress code is up to the school, since they are enforcing it equally on both guys and girls.

I'll put the same question to you as I did to Nukeman, because everyone seems to be hung up on the dress code, when it only takes up half a sentence in the OP-

Can you quote the part of the OP that shows the dress code was the main problem? I can't see anything about it. (other than the reference inbetween the two unreasonable requests that you yourself have agreed the school were wrong about)

The only thing i can see as the problem was that they were of the same sex.

A Feb. 5 memo to students laid out the criteria for bringing a date to the prom, and one requirement was that the person must be of the opposite sex.

Noir

03-11-2010, 06:08 PM

Since when did anyone need to be "allowed" to wear anything?
http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1C1CHNB_enUS339US340&tbs=isch:1&sa=1&q=woman+in+tux&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&start=0

I knew a guy who wore a kilt to the prom in highschool. He was big on celtic stuff obviously but he was basically wearing a dress. What's the difference? If someone wanted to wear a burlap sack to prom they could and should! I say forget your sensibilities and your idea of normal. Normal is boring and requires no creativity or imagination. Normal is vanilla wafers. Normal is a PT Cruiser. No one ever got an orgasm from normal. No one ever went to see a blockbuster movie about normal. No one remembers normal. Normal things and people fade into obscurity and lead boring, beige-colored lives.

Indeedy, at a formal I went to one couple went much further, and the guy wore the girls dress and the girl wore the guys tux, just for a laugh, and it went down pretty well,
We also didn't have a gender rule, and many of the guys that didn't have girlfriends just brought there mates so they all had good banter over the meal (and hit the pubs with them afterwards) but it seems in Mississippi you are not allowed to got for a dinner with a freind if they happen to be of the same sex Lol.

But all that aside, I say the dress code is still a minor issue when compared to the 'different sex' code in this story.

LiberalNation

03-11-2010, 06:17 PM

Don't see how they can really force a school to hold a prom however. I say just cut your losses, the school already has egg on it's face.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100311/ap_on_re_us/us_lesbian_prom_date

Gaffer

03-11-2010, 06:27 PM

I think the ACLU should pay for the whole event. Then they can have all the queers and weirdos they want attend.

glockmail

03-11-2010, 06:50 PM

If they had just shown up and not made a big deal, likely no-one would have known that they were two queers:

http://media.gatewaync.com/wsj/images/2010/03/10/gaymarriageT.jpg

http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2010/mar/10/capital-unions-washington-courthouse-is-a-busy-pla/news-nation-world/

SassyLady

03-12-2010, 01:17 AM

So because the school laid out the policy, the girls were in the wrong?
Following that logic I can only assume that if the school set out the policy of 'dates must be of the same ethnic race' and a mixed race couple wished to go together then you believe they would be in the wrong and would be trying to flaunt disobedience?...

Noir - if an institution cannot make rules for the participants to abide by, then why not just allow complete anarchy?

I like taking my dog everywhere, but there are just some places that don't allow pets. They will allow assistance dogs, but not mine. Should I make a big stink and say .... hey, if that guy's dog is not affecting the health codes, then neither will my dog.

Suppose some eccentric wanted to bring their doggies all dressed up to be their prom date (which I think might be the next lawsut)........do you think that person should assert their right to date who they want and screw the majority's comfort level with what is accepted and what is not accepted?

Just because one community accepts something doesn't mean the next one will. The school had a policy.......if you don't like the policy, don't go to the school or the event.

LiberalNation

03-12-2010, 01:25 AM

or fight to change it......

Noir

03-12-2010, 01:34 AM

Noir - if an institution cannot make rules for the participants to abide by, then why not just allow complete anarchy?

I like taking my dog everywhere, but there are just some places that don't allow pets. They will allow assistance dogs, but not mine. Should I make a big stink and say .... hey, if that guy's dog is not affecting the health codes, then neither will my dog.

Suppose some eccentric wanted to bring their doggies all dressed up to be their prom date (which I think might be the next lawsut)........do you think that person should assert their right to date who they want and screw the majority's comfort level with what is accepted and what is not accepted?

Just because one community accepts something doesn't mean the next one will. The school had a policy.......if you don't like the policy, don't go to the school or the event.

So my question to you was

Following that logic I can only assume that if the school set out the policy of 'dates must be of the same ethnic race' and a mixed race couple wished to go together then you believe they would be in the wrong and would be trying to flaunt disobedience?

and your answer is

The school had a policy.......if you don't like the policy, don't go to the school or the event.

Ergo you think the school can NEVER make a bad policy, and if someone thinks it has made a bad policy they then should leave the school?

and so the school can chose to discriminate at will, as it has by saying

A Feb. 5 memo to students laid out the criteria for bringing a date to the prom, and one requirement was that the person must be of the opposite sex.

SassyLady

03-12-2010, 04:45 AM

Yes, Noir, I am saying that the school set the policy regarding an event that they are not required by law to have and if you don't like the policy you have the right to boycott by not attending. That way, everyone else who agrees with the policy are still allowed to have their night.

Yes, schools set bad policies all the time.

Yes, if the school said only dates of the same ethnic race can attend then that is their policy for the event. Just as if they said ... no one can wear purple. Does it make sense? Maybe not. But it is their right to make the policy. The students have a choice to adhere to the policy or not.........and if they choose to file a lawsuit, the institution has the right to cancel the event.

The students got a good lesson in civil disobedience.......they had the right to protest and the school had the right to cancel. The students who filed the lawsuit have the right to be in the limelight and bear the brunt of why the prom was cancelled. That is the consequence of the stand they chose to take.

The gay students took a stance regarding their belief system and values and the school administrators took a stance regarding their belief system and values.

I did not say that the students are wrong in standing up for themselves.

Do I believe the policy is a bad policy ........ not if the majority of the community supported the policy. I don't see it as discrimination. I see it as the sponsor of the event had guidelines for attending the event. Just as when I am invited to a wedding and am told that children are not invited. If I want to go to the wedding I cannot bring my children..........or, I guess, according to your logic, I could file a lawsuit alleging an anti-children bias against the bridal party.

And, Noir, you didn't answer my earlier questions.

Noir

03-12-2010, 05:51 AM

I'll start by answering the questions you posted in the previous post

if an institution cannot make rules for the participants to abide by, then why not just allow complete anarchy?

Ofcourse they can make rules, however, those rules should not unnecessarily discriminate. Rules that discriminate by Race, Gender, Age and so forth are unnecessary. I am not advocating anarchy, i'm advocating equality.

do you think that person should assert their right to date who they want and screw the majority's comfort level with what is accepted and what is not accepted?

Yes, i do. They have the right to date, if other people find that 'uncomfortable' so what?

Yes, Noir, I am saying that the school set the policy regarding an event that they are not required by law to have and if you don't like the policy you have the right to boycott by not attending. That way, everyone else who agrees with the policy are still allowed to have their night.

Yes, schools set bad policies all the time.

Yes, if the school said only dates of the same ethnic race can attend then that is their policy for the event. Just as if they said ... no one can wear purple. Does it make sense? Maybe not. But it is their right to make the policy. The students have a choice to adhere to the policy or not.........and if they choose to file a lawsuit, the institution has the right to cancel the event.

The students got a good lesson in civil disobedience.......they had the right to protest and the school had the right to cancel. The students who filed the lawsuit have the right to be in the limelight and bear the brunt of why the prom was cancelled. That is the consequence of the stand they chose to take.

The gay students took a stance regarding their belief system and values and the school administrators took a stance regarding their belief system and values.

I did not say that the students are wrong in standing up for themselves.

Do I believe the policy is a bad policy ........ not if the majority of the community supported the policy. I don't see it as discrimination. I see it as the sponsor of the event had guidelines for attending the event. Just as when I am invited to a wedding and am told that children are not invited. If I want to go to the wedding I cannot bring my children..........or, I guess, according to your logic, I could file a lawsuit alleging an anti-children bias against the bridal party.

And, Noir, you didn't answer my earlier questions.

They are not required by law to have a formal, but surly if they chose to have a formal then they are bound by law to not discriminate. That is why the school board has pulled out, they will have to follow the law, and can't bare to do it.

Sitarro

03-12-2010, 06:45 AM

How adorable, a couple of teenagers have seen enough "girls who love each other" in the movies and on TV that they think it is really cool to play that part themselves. I wonder if Grey's Anatomy is "their" favorite show, great role models....... confused lipstick lesbians. The truth is that most of the lesbians I have known were not cute and had been abused by a male figure in their young life(yea, I have known quite a few women that claimed that title), that was the one thing they all had in common. In todays world, in an attempt to normalize the idea and make the practitioners feel better about themselves, their lifestyle has been pushed and pushed hard on society. It has taken a few generations but as you can see from young Noir and Libby, it has worked, it is now a valid lifestyle choice to them( they even believe the..... "You were born that way" crap.

Teenagers don't have a clue which is why the school has rules, to call a couple of kids....... lesbians, is ridiculous........ they jumped on the fad like many are doing today, they will most likely grow out of this choice like most of the cutesy "curious" girls do, when they meet a partner they can conceive and have children with, a natural partner that can produce a child that is the true offspring of each of the parents....... although that doesn't always happen, it is still the ideal way to raise a child, with a loving Mother AND a father.

It is pathetic that the adults in the "gay and lesbian" community feel it is the right thing to do to promote young girl's and boy's experimentation........ no better than drug pushers. All my life I have heard homosexuals state that it isn't a choice, it's who they are and how very tough of a life it is and yet they have no problem promoting their lifestyle to young impressionable minds...... how incredibly irresponsible.

Noir

03-12-2010, 07:18 AM

red states rule

03-12-2010, 07:18 AM

Noir

03-12-2010, 07:20 AM

She made the decision to make a big deal out of it.

Now gay couples come out at the prom?

If she hadn't pushed the school, everyone could have been happy. But as the norm, liberals have to ruin things for everyone.

It has been said libs live to spread the misery around equally

Excuse me? How did she ruin everything? She just wanted to go with her girlfriend.

As i posted in my previous post just now, it is the school that made an issue out of it.

red states rule

03-12-2010, 07:23 AM

Excuse me? How did she ruin everything? She just wanted to go with her girlfriend.

As i posted in my previous post just now, it is the school that made an issue out of it.

When I attened my prom, there was a dress code

What I'm saying is, all she had to do was forget about the tux,and just show up. She's the one who made it a big deal, make a grand enterence, and ended up making sure nobody attendes the prom

Noir

03-12-2010, 07:27 AM

When I attened my prom, there was a dress code

What I'm saying is, all she had to do was forget about the tux,and just show up. She's the one who made it a big deal, make a grand enterence, and ended up making sure nobody attendes the prom

Why is everyone so hung up on the dress code? That is NOT the issue, the issue is that even if they both wanted to wear dresses they would not be able to go. Just read the artical in the OP

A Feb. 5 memo to students laid out the criteria for bringing a date to the prom, and one requirement was that the person must be of the opposite sex.

red states rule

03-12-2010, 07:30 AM

Why is everyone so hung up on the dress code? That is NOT the issue, the issue is that even if they both wanted to wear dresses they would not be able to go. Just read the artical in the OP

It's extremely sad that a young girl feels the need to dress and act like a boy.
What a messed up culture.

and some people encourage such behaviour

They wanted attention, and they got it

Why hung up on a dress code? Try living in the real world Noir. I always thought schools were to prepare kids for life in the real world. Try telling your boss what you will wear to work everyday and see what happens

Noir

03-12-2010, 07:39 AM

It's extremely sad that a young girl feels the need to dress and act like a boy.
What a messed up culture.

and some people encourage such behaviour

They wanted attention, and they got it

Why hung up on a dress code? Try living in the real world Noir. I always thought schools were to prepare kids for life in the real world. Try telling your boss what you will wear to work everyday and see what happens

No, they wanted to go to their Formal together, and the rules laid out meant that no homosexual couple could go (or for that matter no one could go with a friend of the same sex either)

Like i've said i think they should of followed a dress code, like everyone else, however, they should of been allowed to go together, which the 'rules' did not allow.

And i agree, school sets you up for life, could you imagine if the company you worked for held a Christmas dinner and said every worker can bring a +1, the dress code is formal, and your +1 must be of the opposite sex. Do you not think the gay men/women would have something to say about that?

red states rule

03-12-2010, 07:45 AM

No, they wanted to go to their Formal together, and the rules laid out meant that no homosexual couple could go (or for that matter no one could go with a friend of the same sex either)

Like i've said i think they should of followed a dress code, like everyone else, however, they should of been allowed to go together, which the 'rules' did not allow.

And i agree, school sets you up for life, could you imagine if the company you worked for held a Christmas dinner and said every worker can bring a +1, the dress code is formal, and your +1 must be of the opposite sex. Do you not think the gay men/women would have something to say about that?

Noir, in the world of liberals you could not have a "Christmas" dinner. No, it would be a "Holiday" dinner. Christmas is a four letter word with the loony left these days

The left believes anything goes as long as they are not offended. But if others are offended, or it is breaks the rules - to bad and get over it

Bottom line, she wanted to make a big deal out this, and now there is no prom to attend

She can take her GF out on a date, it will be just the two of them, and probably a few reporters to provide glowing coverage

Sitarro

03-12-2010, 07:49 AM

Noir

03-12-2010, 08:01 AM

Noir, in the world of liberals you could not have a "Christmas" dinner. No, it would be a "Holiday" dinner. Christmas is a four letter word with the loony left these days

The left believes anything goes as long as they are not offended. But if others are offended, or it is breaks the rules - to bad and get over it

Bottom line, she wanted to make a big deal out this, and now there is no prom to attend

She can take her GF out on a date, it will be just the two of them, and probably a few reporters to provide glowing coverage

Gawd, you're such a hack, roll out insults against liberals rather than taking on the issue.
Surly as i am a liberally i want to call it holiday dinner, right? Wrong.

Now if you leave the lame party line politics to the side. Care to accurately address the point in the post i made?

red states rule

03-12-2010, 08:05 AM

Gawd, you're such a hack, roll out insults against liberals rather than taking on the issue.
Surly as i am a liberally i want to call it holiday dinner, right? Wrong.

Now if you leave the lame party line politics to the side. Care to accurately address the point in the post i made?

Take a pill Noir. Every year the left fires up their war on Christmas - and I am sorry of that fact "offends" you. If telling the truth is now considered an insult - so be it

If the couple wanted to buck the dress code and cause a scene at a company function, they probably would be fired or at least demoted

Noir

03-12-2010, 08:30 AM

What I find truly pathetic is that someone defines themselves by who or what they have sex with.

Oh and Noir, the bullshit propaganda has worked almost perfectly on you, it's really cool to be gay, you know, you need to find a boyfriend quick...... it's passe to be a "breeder".

Oh i know, i've been 'programmed into a PC robot blar blar blar...'

What has become clear is some of y'all in this topic really don't care about civil rights, because of someones sexual orientation, isn't it pathetic when someone defines someone else by who they have sex with :poke:

Noir

03-12-2010, 08:32 AM

Take a pill Noir. Every year the left fires up their war on Christmas - and I am sorry of that fact "offends" you. If telling the truth is now considered an insult - so be it

If the couple wanted to buck the dress code and cause a scene at a company function, they probably would be fired or at least demoted

You are deliberately trying to drag this off topic, sorry if i'm not willing to play along with that.

And what if they complied with the dress code and wanted to go with a same sex partner?

DragonStryk72

03-12-2010, 10:59 AM

I'll put the same question to you as I did to Nukeman, because everyone seems to be hung up on the dress code, when it only takes up half a sentence in the OP-

Can you quote the part of the OP that shows the dress code was the main problem? I can't see anything about it. (other than the reference inbetween the two unreasonable requests that you yourself have agreed the school were wrong about)

The only thing i can see as the problem was that they were of the same sex.

Just as soon as you learn to start reading MY WHOLE POSTS. I've already answered you on the OP, I am free to refer to other points as I choose. That's the beauty of a 1st amendment

DragonStryk72

03-12-2010, 11:02 AM

So my question to you was

and your answer is

Ergo you think the school can NEVER make a bad policy, and if someone thinks it has made a bad policy they then should leave the school?

and so the school can chose to discriminate at will, as it has by saying

Actually, you could also state that since our country was founded on bucking the laws and regs of England, we were in the wrong, according to the argument presented.

Abbey Marie

03-12-2010, 11:22 AM

Noir

03-12-2010, 11:33 AM

Actually, you could also state that since our country was founded on bucking the laws and regs of England, we were in the wrong, according to the argument presented.

Indeed, but that was a revolution, obviously totally different as history is written by the victors, because it stands to reason that if y'all had lost the war then yes you guys would have 'been in the wrong' but that is digressing somewhat from the topic at hand.

Noir

03-12-2010, 11:36 AM

Noir, unless and until it is proven that gayness is biological, i.e., "you are born that way", the comparison between gayness and race you are making repeatedly is not logical. People are born black, Asian, etc. Gay apples and race oranges, so to speak.

True, i guess i am only making those assumptions based on personal experience from what gay friends have told me, and all but one of them have said they were always 'that way'.

crin63

03-12-2010, 11:45 AM

Personally I love that it was canceled. Send all the perverts back to their closets and quit shoving it down our throats.

Abbey Marie

03-12-2010, 11:58 AM

True, i guess i am only making those assumptions based on personal experience from what gay friends have told me, and all but one of them have said they were always 'that way'.

I think it would be helpful to know. Interestingly, I once saw one of those a news magazine shows, where it was made quite clear that gays did not want the research done to determine if there is a "gay" gene. I don't know why they were/are against the research, but can only assume that they don't want anyone to know if in case it is indeed all environmental and/or choice-based.

Anyway, it's for a different thread I guess.

Noir

03-12-2010, 12:08 PM

I think it would be helpful to know. Interestingly, I once saw one of those a news magazine shows, where it was made quite clear that gays did not want the research done to determine if there is a "gay" gene. I don't know why they were/are against the research, but can only assume that they don't want anyone to know if in case it is indeed all environmental and/or choice-based.

Anyway, it's for a different thread I guess.

Indeedy, just as a final point on that (unless it is continued on another thread) I would think the reason would be that once certain genes are identified then steps can be taken to remove those genes from the pool all together, which brings allot of ethical baggage with it.

Abbey Marie

03-12-2010, 12:09 PM

Indeedy, just as a final point on that (unless it is continued on another thread) I would think the reason would be that once certain genes are identified then steps can be taken to remove those genes from the pool all together, which brings allot of ethical baggage with it.

Good point!

Noir

03-12-2010, 12:09 PM

Personally I love that it was canceled. Send all the perverts back to their closets and quit shoving it down our throats.

Yep, all those people that now may not have a school formal because 2 girls wanted to go together, did you go to a formal when you were younger?

Abbey Marie

03-12-2010, 12:19 PM

Yep, all those people that now may not have a school formal because 2 girls wanted to go together, did you go to a formal when you were younger?

In retrospect, it's not a big deal, and I am not sure the boys care all that much, but most of the girls really do care. Our daughter was having a great time dress shopping, shoe shopping, getting her hair done, the manicure. The shopping was a great time for us as mom & daughter together. It's a shame for them to miss all of that, but I have a feeling someone will throw a big old prom party in it's place.

Noir

03-12-2010, 12:25 PM

In retrospect, it's not a big deal, and I am not sure the boys care all that much, but most of the girls really do care. Our daughter was having a great time dress shopping, shoe shopping, getting her hair done, the manicure. The shopping was a great time for us as mom & daughter together. It's a shame for them to miss all of that, but I have a feeling someone will throw a big old prom party in it's place.

Maybe, i dunno what the culture is like of there, but over here your upper 6th formal is 'the big thing' we throw fundraisers and pre-formals to raise money, and then pay for it ourselves, and if it was ever cancelled there'd be riots lol.

SassyLady

03-12-2010, 01:01 PM

Wow .... just wanted to tell everyone I got my first ever negative rep and I've been posting in this community for 5-6 years. The neg rep was from LiberalNation and she called me a "racist" because I said the school has the right to set the rules for their event.

I never said that being gay is wrong, or dating people of the opposite sex is wrong, or that dating people of a different race is wrong........just that the school has the right to set the rules for an event they want to sponsor.

This is for you Liberalnation .......... calling me names and giving me neg reps makes you a "hater" and I think that is far worse than being a racist.

Abbey Marie

03-12-2010, 01:25 PM

AFbombloader

03-12-2010, 01:30 PM

SassyLady

03-12-2010, 01:32 PM

Even if she doesn't know you better than that, the claim doesn't even make sense based on your post. I would consider the source- a what, 20 year old? lesbian.

I guess she doesn't know that my mother-in-law is gay and has been in a committed relationship with her partner for over 30 years! One of my sisters is a lesbian. Three of my former business clients are gay (two from San Francisco and one from Nashville, TN). I have worked with many gay people over the years and care deeply for all of them.

I have nothing against gay people. All of these people live their lives quietly and with dignity and get back what they put out there. They are respected and loved........precisely because they are not cramming it down anyone's throat or constantly pushing people to accept them.

However, I do not like people who "flaunt" their sexuality......either with the same sex or opposite sex.........and if that makes me a racist, then so be it.

LiberalNation

03-12-2010, 04:37 PM

LiberalNation

03-12-2010, 04:39 PM

only assume that they don't want anyone to know if in case it is indeed all environmental and/or choice-based.

Anyway, it's for a different thread I guess.

that don't want people thinking it's a genitic disorder that requires treatment. I doubt that will be a big worry, both nature and nuture play a huge role in forming a persons sexuality. it's not one or the other. I might not be a lesbian now if my dad wasn't such a douche bad who has emotionally and physical abuse me a lot. We are better now that I am older but one never forget.

Sitarro

03-12-2010, 04:48 PM

that don't want people thinking it's a genitic disorder that requires treatment. I doubt that will be a big worry, both nature and nuture play a huge role in forming a persons sexuality. it's not one or the other. I might not be a lesbian now if my dad wasn't such a douche bad who has emotionally and physical abuse me a lot. We are better now that I am older but one never forget.

I rest my case. Sorry for the abuse, there is no excuse for that but all men aren't that way. Women can be very abusive also, there is no completely safe relationship.

Kathianne

03-12-2010, 04:48 PM

Oh i know, i've been 'programmed into a PC robot blar blar blar...'

What has become clear is some of y'all in this topic really don't care about civil rights, because of someones sexual orientation, isn't it pathetic when someone defines someone else by who they have sex with :poke:

What a totally unfair generalization you make, Y'all. Several of us have made it very clear we don't give a crap what anyone's 'orientation is', until they want special rules. Just shut up about sex, do what adults like. As for the OP, perhaps they should have planned their own party if they wanted, screw the school. But they didn't, so all will work out, just no school sponsored deal. Everyone will have their own or won't.

LiberalNation

03-12-2010, 04:49 PM

I rest my case.

I'm one example and fact is some are born that way. I figure I was always predisposed, being first born female and all that, the abuse just pushed me over the edge into really hating men for a period.

Sitarro

03-12-2010, 04:52 PM

I'm one example and fact is some are born that way. I figure I was always predisposed, being first born female and all that, the abuse just pushed me over the edge into really hating men for a period.

I added to this post, you're just so damn quick with your responses........ :laugh2:

BoogyMan

03-12-2010, 07:10 PM

Indeed. Because before the days of movies and mass media homosexuality was never a valid lifestyle. Tell that to the Greeks.

If the school had laid rules about dates must be of certain ages, or skin colour ect then i have no doubt you would find the school in the wrong, no? But just because it happens to be on gender then its people trying to force their way of life on others.

All that this school has down is made an issue out of nothing, if they had (as i'm sure many schools do) let you bring whoever you want as a date then no one would care, but they made it an issue by trying to discriminate on the basis of gender.

Skin color differences are not aberrations, Noir, therefore your scenario is invalid. Comparing disapproval of perversion with disapproval or racism is a cheap tactic that twists the logic of the discussion.

Noir

03-12-2010, 07:15 PM

What a totally unfair generalization you make, Y'all. Several of us have made it very clear we don't give a crap what anyone's 'orientation is', until they want special rules. Just shut up about sex, do what adults like. As for the OP, perhaps they should have planned their own party if they wanted, screw the school. But they didn't, so all will work out, just no school sponsored deal. Everyone will have their own or won't.

I know, that's why I said "some of y'all" and I would hardly saying that wanted to go together and arrive together are special rules. I do agree that the dress code should remain in place, but again that is a minor issue, given that even if they both complied with the dress code they would still not be able to of gone together.
Again I put it to you, that if rather the school said dates must be of the same race, and a mixed race couple wanted to go, would they be claiming 'specual' rights or 'equal' right?

Noir

03-12-2010, 07:17 PM

Skin color differences are not aberrations, Noir, therefore your scenario is invalid. Comparing disapproval of perversion with disapproval or racism is a cheap tactic that twists the logic of the discussion.

Oh, it's only sexual perverson that counts, in which case, someone may only go to the formal with a date that they have not had oral sex with, right? /sark

SassyLady

03-12-2010, 09:29 PM

the racist was for saying the school had a right to ban mix race dating and no they don't. It is unconstitutional. One day gays will also be protected but till then.

oh and stop being such a big cry baby about rep.

First - showing support for the school to choose the guidelines for their events does not equate with "racism". I never said that the policy was a good one, only that they have the right to set the policy. Just as the kids had the right to protest the policy.

Why would you say it is unconstitutional for the school to make choices about how they want to handle their events? Why is the gay couple's rights any more valid than the rights of everyone else attending the school? What if the school had said OK ..... come on down Miss Lesbian! And the rest of the kids sued the school for allowing it? Would you support those kids rights? All they want to do is assert their rights to not have same sex couples at their prom....or are you just pushing for the rights of gays and not all individuals?

Oh, and as for the neg rep..........don't care one way or the other LN....just thought it was funny that my first neg rep comes from such an innocuous remark. Imagine what would happen if I really let loose on you and called you some of the foul names others on this board have called you. :slap:

SassyLady

03-12-2010, 09:31 PM

Oh, it's only sexual perverson that counts, in which case, someone may only go to the formal with a date that they have not had oral sex with, right? /sark

Only if they ask the school board if they can do it in public at the prom.

crin63

03-12-2010, 09:37 PM

Yep, all those people that now may not have a school formal because 2 girls wanted to go together, did you go to a formal when you were younger?

Yes I did and I would've left if a couple lesbo's or queers showed up.

SassyLady

03-12-2010, 09:38 PM

Again I put it to you, that if rather the school said dates must be of the same race, and a mixed race couple wanted to go, would they be claiming 'specual' rights or 'equal' right?

Again, I put it to you, Noir, if the institution sponsoring the event wants the people coming to be all males, that is their right to set those guidelines. Do the females then have a right to protest ..... yes! But the school still has the right to cancel if those attending don't want to adhere to the policies/rules. Doesn't matter about whether it is "special" or "equal" rights.

This is not about constitutional rights .... it is about what the school felt the majority would be comfortable with and having this couple show up as dates clearly was not what the majority (or at least the decision makers) wanted.

Noir

03-12-2010, 09:46 PM

Again, I put it to you, Noir, if the institution sponsoring the event wants the people coming to be all males, that is their right to set those guidelines. Do the females then have a right to protest ..... yes! But the school still has the right to cancel if those attending don't want to adhere to the policies/rules. Doesn't matter about whether it is "special" or "equal" rights.

This is not about constitutional rights .... it is about what the school felt the majority would be comfortable with and having this couple show up as dates clearly was not what the majority (or at least the decision makers) wanted.

Ah, so a school need does not have a responsibility to treat pupils equally, okay.

SassyLady

03-12-2010, 09:47 PM

Ah, so a school need does not have a responsibility to treat pupils equally, okay.

Yes, they were treating the lesbians equally by having then abide by the same rules as the rest of the students. It was the lesbians that wanted different treatment....they didn't want to abide by the same rules as everyone else.

Noir

03-12-2010, 09:48 PM

Only if they ask the school board if they can do it in public at the prom.

So now you are equating heterosexual couples committing perverted acts in public to a homosexual couple being with each other in public?

Noir

03-12-2010, 09:50 PM

Yes I did and I would've left if a couple lesbo's or queers showed up.

I hope there was also no one who had committed perverted hertrosexual acts aswell, or you would surly of left.

SassyLady

03-12-2010, 09:53 PM

So now you are equating heterosexual couples committing perverted acts in public to a homosexual couple being with each other in public?

No... you asked if someone should be banned from attending the school because they had oral sex with someone. I said only if they requested to do it in public. What they do in private is their own business and should remain so.

Originally Posted by Noir
Oh, it's only sexual perverson that counts, in which case, someone may only go to the formal with a date that they have not had oral sex with, right?

Once again, you make huge leaps of assumption based upon one's answer to one of your theoretical questions.

Noir

03-12-2010, 09:53 PM

Yes, they were treating the lesbians equally by having then abide by the same rules as the rest of the students. It was the lesbians that wanted different treatment....they didn't want to abide by the same rules as everyone else.

They were treated equally by being subject to rules that excluded them :laugh2: pull the other one love.

SassyLady

03-12-2010, 09:59 PM

They were treated equally by being subject to rules that excluded them :laugh2: pull the other one love.

See, Noir, this is where your logic is wrong. They were not excluded at all. They could have come to the prom ... all they had to do was adhere to the policy.

Noir

03-12-2010, 10:01 PM

No... you asked if someone should be banned from attending the school because they had oral sex with someone. I said only if they requested to do it in public. What they do in private is their own business and should remain so.

And what those girls do in their private life is their own business, they're just going to have a dinner and dance together, not having a public orgy.

Once again, you make huge leaps of assumption based upon one's answer to one of your theoretical questions.

If he does not want to be around sexual perverts, then its a logical extension.

Noir

03-12-2010, 10:03 PM

See, Noir, this is where your logic is wrong. They were not excluded at all. They could have come to the prom ... all they had to do was adhere to the policy.

They could not go with eachother, and would of been forced to go with guys =/

SassyLady

03-12-2010, 10:08 PM

They could not go with eachother, and would of been forced to go with guys =/

They were not excluded. They were not forced to go with guys. They could stay home.

SassyLady

03-12-2010, 10:15 PM

And what those girls do in their private life is their own business, they're just going to have a dinner and dance together, not having a public orgy.

Probably not. However, if the community doesn't want to show support for gays, that is their right. They are not persecuting them, just not supporting them.

If he does not want to be around sexual perverts, then its a logical extension.

Not it is not a logical extension. While he (whoever he is) might not want to be around sexual perverts, how would he know that anyone had engaged in oral sex unless they made a public statement about it.

Noir

03-12-2010, 10:23 PM

They were not excluded. They were not forced to go with guys. They could stay home.

Ah, so they weren't excluded, they just were given the opinion to stay at home if they disagreed with the rule that stopped them from going together, what choice xD

Noir

03-12-2010, 10:38 PM

Probably not. However, if the community doesn't want to show support for gays, that is their right. They are not persecuting them, just not supporting them.

They are not given them equal rights, like everyone else, there were seceral specific rules made against them.

Not it is not a logical extension. While he (whoever he is) might not want to be around sexual perverts, how would he know that anyone had engaged in oral sex unless they made a public statement about it.

He is crin63,
Indeedy, i don't know about crin, but i know when i was in school plenty of guys would boost about what they did sexually. Therefore depending on his response I will give an appropriate re-response.

SassyLady

03-12-2010, 11:13 PM

Ah, so they weren't excluded, they just were given the opinion to stay at home if they disagreed with the rule that stopped them from going together, what choice xD

Noir, why is it so hard for you to realize that life is full of choices and disappointments and that one individual rights are not any more important than another's.

Just like my example of the wedding invitation ..... the bridal party said no children and if I didn't like the rule I could opt to not go to the wedding....rather than ruin the wedding for everyone else by forcing them to allow children. Aren't they infringing upon my rights to take my children wherever I want?

red states rule

03-12-2010, 11:17 PM

Noir, why is it so hard for you to realize that life is full of choices and disappointments and that one individual rights are not any more important than another's.

Just like my example of the wedding invitation ..... the bridal party said no children and if I didn't like the rule I could opt to not go to the wedding....rather than ruin the wedding for everyone else by forcing them to allow children. Aren't they infringing upon my rights to take my children wherever I want?

You would not bring your children out of respect and the fact you understand the world does NOT revolve around you

red states rule

03-12-2010, 11:27 PM

BTW, has it occured to anyone the local Police and DA should be looking into the possibility that they may have a case of statutory rape here

After all, the one girl is a minor and the other is 18.

That is the legal definition of statutory rape - correct?

Noir

03-12-2010, 11:33 PM

red states rule

03-12-2010, 11:34 PM

Who says they're having sex?

That is why I asked the question Noir. Or did you miss the word possibility in my post?

Noir

03-12-2010, 11:44 PM

That is why I asked the question Noir. Or did you miss the word possibility in my post?

So what do you want the police to do exactly?

SassyLady

03-12-2010, 11:46 PM

So what do you want the police to do exactly?

The same thing they would do if a male 18 or older is dating someone under the age of consent?

red states rule

03-12-2010, 11:47 PM

So what do you want the police to do exactly?

If you must ask, why not their job and see of a crime has been commtted. Or do the laws covering statutory rape not applicable to gays?

Noir

03-12-2010, 11:54 PM

The same thing they would do if a male 18 or older is dating someone under the age of consent?

And what exactly is that?

Kathianne

03-12-2010, 11:54 PM

I know, that's why I said "some of y'all" and I would hardly saying that wanted to go together and arrive together are special rules. I do agree that the dress code should remain in place, but again that is a minor issue, given that even if they both complied with the dress code they would still not be able to of gone together.
Again I put it to you, that if rather the school said dates must be of the same race, and a mixed race couple wanted to go, would they be claiming 'specual' rights or 'equal' right?

I think the fact that the school specified 'opposite sex' couples only probably is indicative of issues from the past. Like your own prom, at least around this area there have been dateless guys and girls that have gotten dressed up and gone with their friends. I know my youngest son and his girlfriend went with a group of 30 guys and girls to prom-some were couples, some just dateless-if any were gay, no one said. They all had chipped in for limos. Went to dinner/dance on ship and other activities they planned for afterwards and next day.

The only issue at their prom was alcohol and drugs. At the entry of the ship there was a 'check' to make sure no booze/drugs and that no one was under the influence.

I would guess that like the reason for basically the third degree on the above, the rules about 'couples' was based on past experiences. In any case, anyone who disagree with the draconian measures could take a pass. In this case the girls decided their rights trumped the whole and the school agreed. Not sure how they won, but if they are cool, good for them.

Noir

03-12-2010, 11:54 PM

If you must ask, why not their job and see of a crime has been commtted. Or do the laws covering statutory rape not applicable to gays?

Ofcourse it applys to everyone, but, what would you expect them to do exactly?

red states rule

03-12-2010, 11:55 PM

And what exactly is that?

Are you really this dense Noir, or are you showing you have a clear and obvious set of double standards on this topic?

red states rule

03-12-2010, 11:56 PM

Ofcourse it applys to everyone, but, what would you expect them to do exactly?

Again Noir, their job when a possible crime that may have been committed

Noir

03-13-2010, 12:02 AM

Are you really this dense Noir, or are you showing you have a clear and obvious set of double standards on this topic?

Again Noir, their job when a possible crime that may have been committed

There's nothing double standard about it, i just want to know what you expect the police to do? Are the meant to go to the door and just ask them if they've been having sex or what?

red states rule

03-13-2010, 12:07 AM

There's nothing double standard about it, i just want to know what you expect the police to do? Are the meant to go to the door and just ask them if they've been having sex or what?

There is a double standard Noir. On the one hand you demand the rights of the teenagers be enforced, but not any laws they may be breaking

You demand the school buckle and allow them to ignore the rules in place, but have no intrest in the Police to investagate if the kids are committing a crime

Your support of the teens is based on a simple fact. They are making a defiant political statement. Much to the chagrin of everyone else.

Which is typcial of the left.

SassyLady

03-13-2010, 12:11 AM

And what exactly is that?

Overview
The following laws are the ages for sexual consent in the United States only. The age of sexual consent is the age when the law says you can agree to have sex. This means that until you reach this age, you can not legally have sex with anyone, regardless of whether or not you or your parents consent. Sometimes the law is different if you are female or male. Some states also have different ages of consent for homosexual intercourse. As with any laws, these are subject to change. If you are younger than age 18, please check these laws in the state in which you reside.

These laws exist because some teens are not mature enough to know that their actions have consequences. The law makes sure that young people are not exploited by adults.

Statutory rape is the crime committed when an adult has sexual intercourse with someone under the legal age of sexual consent. If the crime is reported (even if your partner is your boyfriend/girlfriend), that person may be arrested, tried in a court of law and sent to jail.

Age of Sexual Consent in USA
State Age Law on Same-sex Intercourse?
Alabama 16 no law on same-sex intercourse
Alaska 16 f/m, f/f, m/m intercourse
Arizona 18 no law on same-sex intercourse
Arkansas 16 no law on same-sex intercourse
California 18 f/m, f/f, m/m intercourse
I only posted to CA because that is where I live. See here for rest of states and their laws:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/12483-age-consensual-sex/

Noir

03-13-2010, 12:11 AM

I think the fact that the school specified 'opposite sex' couples only probably is indicative of issues from the past. Like your own prom, at least around this area there have been dateless guys and girls that have gotten dressed up and gone with their friends. I know my youngest son and his girlfriend went with a group of 30 guys and girls to prom-some were couples, some just dateless-if any were gay, no one said. They all had chipped in for limos. Went to dinner/dance on ship and other activities they planned for afterwards and next day.

So now you are making assumptions on what has happened in the past.
And i dare say your son would of known if any of them were gay, I'd be amazed if anyone could go through years of being in school together and not know such things.

The only issue at their prom was alcohol and drugs. At the entry of the ship there was a 'check' to make sure no booze/drugs and that no one was under the influence.

I would guess that like the reason for basically the third degree on the above, the rules about 'couples' was based on past experiences. In any case, anyone who disagree with the draconian measures could take a pass. In this case the girls decided their rights trumped the whole and the school agreed. Not sure how they won, but if they are cool, good for them.

They just wanted the right to go together like everyone else, you are using the same logic as mrskurtsprincess, they could 'give it a pass' aka if they feel excluded then they should exclude themselves =/

Noir

03-13-2010, 12:14 AM

There is a double standard Noir. On the one hand you demand the rights of the teenagers be enforced, but not any laws they may be breaking

You demand the school buckle and allow them to ignore the rules in place, but have no intrest in the Police to investagate if the kids are committing a crime

Your support of the teens is based on a simple fact. They are making a defiant political statement. Much to the chagrin of everyone else.

Which is typcial of the left.

Its not a double standard, ofcourse the law should be enforced, however, i was asking how you want them to go about it. Given no one (to my knowledge) has said anything about them having sex, and i would think that surly the police would need some sort of lead to start an investigation

SassyLady

03-13-2010, 12:16 AM

They just wanted the right to go together like everyone else, you are using the same logic as mrskurtsprincess, they could 'give it a pass' aka if they feel excluded then they should exclude themselves =/

Everyone else was willing to go with someone of the opposite sex Noir.

Noir

03-13-2010, 12:17 AM

Copied from mrskurtsprincesses post

Overview
The following laws are the ages for sexual consent in the United States only. The age of sexual consent is the age when the law says you can agree to have sex. This means that until you reach this age, you can not legally have sex with anyone, regardless of whether or not you or your parents consent. Sometimes the law is different if you are female or male. Some states also have different ages of consent for homosexual intercourse. As with any laws, these are subject to change. If you are younger than age 18, please check these laws in the state in which you reside.

These laws exist because some teens are not mature enough to know that their actions have consequences. The law makes sure that young people are not exploited by adults.

Statutory rape is the crime committed when an adult has sexual intercourse with someone under the legal age of sexual consent. If the crime is reported (even if your partner is your boyfriend/girlfriend), that person may be arrested, tried in a court of law and sent to jail.

Age of Sexual Consent in USA
State Age Law on Same-sex Intercourse?
Alabama 16 no law on same-sex intercourse
Alaska 16 f/m, f/f, m/m intercourse
Arizona 18 no law on same-sex intercourse
Arkansas 16 no law on same-sex intercourse
California 18 f/m, f/f, m/m intercourse

I put the bold in,

Now, has anyone reported the crime?
If not, then i don't know what RSR expects the police to do.

Noir

03-13-2010, 12:19 AM

Everyone else was willing to go with someone of the opposite sex Noir.

What difference does that make? How many couples would of had to go against the rules for the rules to be wrong?

Kathianne

03-13-2010, 12:20 AM

So now you are making assumptions on what has happened in the past.
And i dare say your son would of known if any of them were gay, I'd be amazed if anyone could go through years of being in school together and not know such things.

They just wanted the right to go together like everyone else, you are using the same logic as mrskurtsprincess, they could 'give it a pass' aka if they feel excluded then they should exclude themselves =/

Yeah, my kids are a lot like me, if someone doesn't feel the need to push things in our faces we tend to leave them alone, especially if they are nice people and our friends. How Neandertal-like of us. :rolleyes:

Hmm, Mrs. K and I are saying the same thing, I'm not embarrassed by that. I think there is a good chance that this couple or others had created issues that caused the rule you disagree with. My guess is that some of the kids agree with them and you. Problem is that they ruined the event, whereas if they'd just wanted to go, have fun, all they'd have to do is get into dresses, act like any number of girls/guys that were just dateless by choice or not and had fun. They chose different route, fine.

You want them 'embraced', that's not happening where they live. They managed to ruin the event for all, like I said, that's cool, as long as they don't care about the others.

Noir

03-13-2010, 12:34 AM

Yeah, my kids are a lot like me, if someone doesn't feel the need to push things in our faces we tend to leave them alone, especially if they are nice people and our friends. How Neandertal-like of us. :rolleyes:

Hmm, Mrs. K and I are saying the same thing, I'm not embarrassed by that. I think there is a good chance that this couple or others had created issues that caused the rule you disagree with. My guess is that some of the kids agree with them and you. Problem is that they ruined the event, whereas if they'd just wanted to go, have fun, all they'd have to do is get into dresses, act like any number of girls/guys that were just dateless by choice or not and had fun. They chose different route, fine.

You want them 'embraced', that's not happening where they live. They managed to ruin the event for all, like I said, that's cool, as long as they don't care about the others.

I'm not saying anything needs to be pushed in anyones face, but there are gay people out there, thats a fact lol, in the same way that your son will know which of his friends are Christian ot Atheist, i'm sure he'll know which are hetro and homo.

So you think they should of lied about it all? And pretended to not be gay, just so they could go to the formal?

Kathianne

03-13-2010, 01:02 AM

I'm not saying anything needs to be pushed in anyones face, but there are gay people out there, thats a fact lol, in the same way that your son will know which of his friends are Christian ot Atheist, i'm sure he'll know which are hetro and homo.

So you think they should of lied about it all? And pretended to not be gay, just so they could go to the formal?

You keep stating the stating the obvious. I already agreed that most of us recognize friends that may be gay. The norm is straight, right? I don't want to hear about their sex lives either. Same with gays. No need to say, "Gee, I like guys, acknowledge my right to do so." Same with the opposite.

Religion on the other hand, for the most part not something normally a topic of conversation. The Evangelicals around these parts may hang a bit more, they often are looking for time for bible studies, even though there are tons of churches in town.

(Religion Wheaton has 63 churches within its limits, with an additional thirty in the bordering unincorporated areas.[citation needed] The Genius Edition of Trivial Pursuit claims Wheaton has "more churches per capita than any town in America."
On March 18, 2002, St. Michael Catholic Church in Downtown Wheaton was destroyed by arson by a Wheaton resident and parishioner,[8] now serving 39 years in prison.[9] He has lost his appeal, but still maintains his innocence. The church has since been rebuilt, which reopened on March 18, 2006 at a cost of $13 million.
Wheaton has the most Churches per unit area then any other city) (http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:4ETRC3Ig7NIJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheaton,_Illinois+wheaton+illinois+churches+per+pe rson&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari)

Noir, your predisposition towards Americans being dim is showing. One can have faith, be conservative, and still not be what you perceive intellectually.

Noir

03-13-2010, 01:12 AM

You keep stating the stating the obvious. I already agreed that most of us recognize friends that may be gay. The norm is straight, right? I don't want to hear about their sex lives either. Same with gays. No need to say, "Gee, I like guys, acknowledge my right to do so." Same with the opposite.

Religion on the other hand, for the most part not something normally a topic of conversation. The Evangelicals around these parts may hang a bit more, they often are looking for time for bible studies, even though there are tons of churches in town.

(Religion Wheaton has 63 churches within its limits, with an additional thirty in the bordering unincorporated areas.[citation needed] The Genius Edition of Trivial Pursuit claims Wheaton has "more churches per capita than any town in America."
On March 18, 2002, St. Michael Catholic Church in Downtown Wheaton was destroyed by arson by a Wheaton resident and parishioner,[8] now serving 39 years in prison.[9] He has lost his appeal, but still maintains his innocence. The church has since been rebuilt, which reopened on March 18, 2006 at a cost of $13 million.
Wheaton has the most Churches per unit area then any other city) (http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:4ETRC3Ig7NIJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheaton,_Illinois+wheaton+illinois+churches+per+pe rson&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari)

Noir, your predisposition towards Americans being dim is showing. One can have faith, be conservative, and still not be what you perceive intellectually.

Indeedy, but you don't have to hear about their sex lives, at what point does these two girls going to a formal together force anyone to hear about any sex life they may have?

You failed to answer the question of why you think these girls should of had to of lied just to go to the formal.

And i have no predisposition about Americans being dim, i would like to think that you think more of me than that.

SassyLady

03-13-2010, 01:16 AM

What difference does that make? How many couples would of had to go against the rules for the rules to be wrong?

Enough to get the powers to be to change the policy. Why do you feel the lesbian couple is in the right? Why don't you believe the rest of the community is in the right and know what is right for them?

Would you move into a Amish community and start demanding that they adhere to your values? Or would you conform to the norms of the community in order to survive? They have very strict rules about everything .... things we would consider to be violation of an individual's rights. So, tell me Noir, would you file a lawsuit to change the basic rules of this community just because you feel their rules are "wrong"?

Noir

03-13-2010, 01:26 AM

Enough to get the powers to be to change the policy. Why do you feel the lesbian couple is in the right? Why don't you believe the rest of the community is in the right and know what is right for them?

Would you move into a Amish community and start demanding that they adhere to your values? Or would you conform to the norms of the community in order to survive? They have very strict rules about everything .... things we would consider to be violation of an individual's rights. So, tell me Noir, would you file a lawsuit to change the basic rules of this community just because you feel their rules are "wrong"?

Oh, so the issue is how many peoples rights are being stamped on, if its only a few then its okay? =/

You can chose to enter and leave the amish community at will. By joining you accept that individual rights will be restricted.
These girls are part of a public school, public schools should be equal for all, because there is not a choice.
The school knew that, which is why they have now retracted, and hope that a private formal can be set up, that will be able to hold a formal without needing to treat all equally.

Kathianne

03-13-2010, 01:33 AM

Indeedy, but you don't have to hear about their sex lives, at what point does these two girls going to a formal together force anyone to hear about any sex life they may have?

You failed to answer the question of why you think these girls should of had to of lied just to go to the formal.

And i have no predisposition about Americans being dim, i would like to think that you think more of me than that.

Fail wasn't possible, I never said they should lie. If the school hadn't said 'opposite sex couples only,' wouldn't have been an issue. I speculated there might have been previous issues that brought that rule into being. Perhaps for no reason the administration came up with it 'out of the blue', but unlikely.

I said if the rule wasn't there, they could have gone and just enjoyed, as had been the case for most schools for many years. As you stated I believed, lots of your mates went together, sans dates. Some can't afford to pay for two, some don't have a boyfriend/girlfriend, some would just prefer to have fun with their friends.

In any case, it's settled. No school prom. Private parties will probably be held, but nothing for the 'class.'

Noir

03-13-2010, 01:45 AM

Fail wasn't possible, I never said they should lie. If the school hadn't said 'opposite sex couples only,' wouldn't have been an issue. I speculated there might have been previous issues that brought that rule into being. Perhaps for no reason the administration came up with it 'out of the blue', but unlikely.

I said if the rule wasn't there, they could have gone and just enjoyed, as had been the case for most schools for many years. As you stated I believed, lots of your mates went together, sans dates. Some can't afford to pay for two, some don't have a boyfriend/girlfriend, some would just prefer to have fun with their friends.

In any case, it's settled. No school prom. Private parties will probably be held, but nothing for the 'class.'

You never said they should lie? But you did say

whereas if they'd just wanted to go, have fun, all they'd have to do is get into dresses, act like any number of girls/guys that were just dateless by choice or not and had fun.
i.e. They should of gone as if they were not a couple, thus lying.

Yeah, quite a shame for the year group that the school had to have such a daft policy. But such is life.

Kathianne

03-13-2010, 01:54 AM

You never said they should lie? But you did say

i.e. They should of gone as if they were not a couple, thus lying.

Yeah, quite a shame for the year group that the school had to have such a daft policy. But such is life.
I look at it as going to the dance with whom one chooses, the relationships shouldn't have to be explained to others.

Courts may get more involved, but will just make schools choose not to sponsor these types of events, to avoid the hassles. Stupid time to make a point that really doesn't need to be made.

Everyone should just stay out of others business. At the same time, folks shouldn't try forcing everyone to condone behaviors they don't agree with, for whatever reasons. You don't need my 'approval' for anything. I have no right to force you to behave as I would have you, unless you are breaking laws or infringing on my rights.

Hope that makes sense. :coffee:

Noir

03-13-2010, 02:02 AM

I look at it as going to the dance with whom one chooses, the relationships shouldn't have to be explained to others.

Courts may get more involved, but will just make schools choose not to sponsor these types of events, to avoid the hassles. Stupid time to make a point that really doesn't need to be made.

Everyone should just stay out of others business. At the same time, folks shouldn't try forcing everyone to condone behaviors they don't agree with, for whatever reasons. You don't need my 'approval' for anything. I have no right to force you to behave as I would have you, unless you are breaking laws or infringing on my rights.

Hope that makes sense. :coffee:

Indeed, schools could chose to cancel such events, and never hold them again, or just let people go with other folk of the same sex, whatever they judge to be more reasonable i guess.

SassyLady

03-13-2010, 03:11 AM

Oh, so the issue is how many peoples rights are being stamped on, if its only a few then its okay? =/

You can chose to enter and leave the amish community at will. By joining you accept that individual rights will be restricted.
These girls are part of a public school, public schools should be equal for all, because there is not a choice.
The school knew that, which is why they have now retracted, and hope that a private formal can be set up, that will be able to hold a formal without needing to treat all equally.

What about all the other student's rights? Why do you keep ignoring their rights? Their right to NOT have lesbians at their prom? Did it ever occur to you that

Noir

03-13-2010, 03:17 AM

What about all the other student's rights? Why do you keep ignoring their rights? Their right to NOT have lesbians at their prom? Did it ever occur to you that

There is a right to not see lesbians? I've never heard of that right myself.

LiberalNation

03-13-2010, 07:28 AM

lol if that is a right hope none of them expect to go to a public college. Teh gays are there and are allowed to exist in the open.

red states rule

03-13-2010, 07:29 AM

Oh, so the issue is how many peoples rights are being stamped on, if its only a few then its okay? =/

You can chose to enter and leave the amish community at will. By joining you accept that individual rights will be restricted.
These girls are part of a public school, public schools should be equal for all, because there is not a choice.
The school knew that, which is why they have now retracted, and hope that a private formal can be set up, that will be able to hold a formal without needing to treat all equally.

As usual with most on the left Noir, you are outraged over their "rights" being violated, but could care less if the law was broken, the rights of others, or the rules and policies of the school

As long as a political statement you agree with is made, and you have people to hold up as "vicitims" - you thump your chest and make yourself fell warm all over

Sitarro

03-13-2010, 08:35 AM

The little girls wanted to bring attention to their adorable little relationship, the school didn't want to play....... simple as that. I would imagine a necrophiliac would be banned from bringing his or her favorite corpse to the prom too, would the ACLU defend them?:laugh2:

Noir

03-13-2010, 09:11 AM

As usual with most on the left Noir, you are outraged over their "rights" being violated, but could care less if the law was broken, the rights of others, or the rules and policies of the school

As long as a political statement you agree with is made, and you have people to hold up as "vicitims" - you thump your chest and make yourself fell warm all over

What are you talking about, is this the rape thing? I already pointed out (and you failed to reply when I did) " If the crime is reported " then the police can act, do you have anything claiming a crime has been reported?and you will also note that I said in my posts that if the law has been broken then they should feel the force of it, but ofcourse you would rather not read and report what I say, you'd rather just try and tell people what you think I should think in order to look like a loony liberal, the problem being it doesn't really work in a system where I have a text record of what I have said, unless the person reading your post is just as politically bent as you are.

Noir

03-13-2010, 09:14 AM

DragonStryk72

03-13-2010, 01:29 PM

What about all the other student's rights? Why do you keep ignoring their rights? Their right to NOT have lesbians at their prom? Did it ever occur to you that

Ah, so then I can ban you personally from your work, your education, and hell, really anywhere i feel like because it is my "right" not to have to put up with you? You really want to use that argument? I can kick you out of banks, government offices, everything.

Btw, it is still discriminatory, since they would not be cancelling the prom if the two girls were not asking permission to go.

Again, there's a lot of assuming, that the girls must simply being trying to snag attention or whatnot, and that doesn't seem to be the case. The girl wants to attend a public school dance with her girlfriend without stupid shenanigans. It doesn't sound like any student at the school was even asked how they felt about it, so unless you can prove their "right" was violated, your argument does not stand on that point alone, then there's the point I started off here with to finish beating it into the dirt.

jimnyc

03-13-2010, 02:57 PM

Btw, it is still discriminatory, since they would not be cancelling the prom if the two girls were not asking permission to go.

It maybe be discriminatory as you and Noir claim, but is it illegal discrimination? I don't believe sexual orientation is a legally protected characteristic in Miss. and therefore it would not be illegal discrimination. If they discriminated based on race, national origin, religion or other protected characteristics, then they would have a point. They likely dropped the prom to save the headaches of paying to protect themselves in a lawsuit and the press it would continue to receive. Unless someone can show that Mississippi has passed legislation that protects against sexual orientation discrimination - then no rights whatsoever have been violated.

jimnyc

03-13-2010, 03:02 PM

Here is a little more reading about sexual orientation in Mississippi:

http://www.law.ucla.edu/williamsinstitute/pdf/Mississippi%20Final.pdf

"Mississippi has no current or pending state or local statutes recognizing sexual orientation or gender identity as a protected class of citizens"

Noir

03-13-2010, 03:42 PM

Here is a little more reading about sexual orientation in Mississippi:

http://www.law.ucla.edu/williamsinstitute/pdf/Mississippi%20Final.pdf

Well i guess its stuff like this that gets the ball rolling, i dare say in the not too distant future it will be,

Noir

03-13-2010, 03:44 PM

They likely dropped the prom to save the headaches of paying to protect themselves in a lawsuit and the press it would continue to receive.

Yep, as i mentioned before, the choices were let the girls go together, or cancel the prom for everyone. The former would of resulted in no legal action at all, the latter may well lead to a landmark case in that state.

But all in all, the school board decided it was best to cancel the whole thing, rather than let them go together.

jimnyc

03-13-2010, 05:32 PM

Yep, as i mentioned before, the choices were let the girls go together, or cancel the prom for everyone. The former would of resulted in no legal action at all, the latter may well lead to a landmark case in that state.

But all in all, the school board decided it was best to cancel the whole thing, rather than let them go together.

Nonetheless, my point was, they were not illegally discriminating against anyone as some were making it out to seem. And I wouldn't count on it changing anytime soon, it's not a protected characteristic in almost all states.

Noir

03-13-2010, 05:39 PM

Nonetheless, my point was, they were not illegally discriminating against anyone as some were making it out to seem. And I wouldn't count on it changing anytime soon, it's not a protected characteristic in almost all states.

True, they were legally discriminating. Given the only reason that i can see against it is a religious one i would hope that if this was brought to the courts they would make discrimination against them illegal.

SassyLady

03-13-2010, 07:31 PM

Ah, so then I can ban you personally from your work, your education, and hell, really anywhere i feel like because it is my "right" not to have to put up with you? You really want to use that argument? I can kick you out of banks, government offices, everything.

Yes you can if you are the one who is in a position to make the rules. If you own the bank and think you can get away with posting a rule to ban blondes then go for it. Would I have a right to sue you for doing it?

Btw, it is still discriminatory, since they would not be cancelling the prom if the two girls were not asking permission to go.

Yes, it is discriminatory ... a lot of things in life are discriminatory. As I've said before......example: bridal couple don't want children at the wedding/reception. Does that discriminate against people with children? Yes. Do they have the right to do that? Yes.

Again, there's a lot of assuming, that the girls must simply being trying to snag attention or whatnot, and that doesn't seem to be the case. The girl wants to attend a public school dance with her girlfriend without stupid shenanigans. It doesn't sound like any student at the school was even asked how they felt about it, so unless you can prove their "right" was violated, your argument does not stand on that point alone, then there's the point I started off here with to finish beating it into the dirt.

My argument has always been that the school had the right to cancel the prom because there is no law that says the school has to sponsor a dance. I never said that the basis of their rules were right or wrong....just that they had the right to set and enforce the rules.

BoogyMan

03-13-2010, 08:05 PM

Oh, it's only sexual perverson that counts, in which case, someone may only go to the formal with a date that they have not had oral sex with, right? /sark

What an onerous addition to a stupid argument! You tried to equate disapproval of homosexuality with racism; a more dishonest and thoughtless argument could scarcely be made.

Try framing your argument honestly and get back to me. Your attempt at being sarky only works when your argument is honest, it isn't.

Noir

03-13-2010, 08:11 PM

What an onerous addition to a stupid argument! You tried to equate disapproval of homosexuality with racism; a more dishonest and thoughtless argument could scarcely be made.

Try framing your argument honestly and get back to me. Your attempt at being sarky only works when your argument is honest, it isn't.

I equated one form of discrimination with another.

and i equated one form of perversion with another.

Simples.

It only looks silly because it is holding a mirror up to the silliness of the arguments they were made to retort.

BoogyMan

03-13-2010, 08:43 PM

I equated one form of discrimination with another.

and i equated one form of perversion with another.

Simples.

It only looks silly because it is holding a mirror up to the silliness of the arguments they were made to retort.

No, once again you equate apples to helicopters; fail.

HogTrash

03-14-2010, 12:37 PM

Question avoided :laugh2:

I'll try a second time. On what basis do you judge it to be immoral?Mother Nature! :gay:

Noir

03-14-2010, 01:23 PM

No, once again you equate apples to helicopters; fail.

So says you.

Noir

03-14-2010, 01:26 PM

Mother Nature! :gay:

You judge it to be immoral by Mother Nature?
That doesn't even make sense =/

HogTrash

03-14-2010, 02:28 PM

You judge it to be immoral by Mother Nature?
That doesn't even make sense =/Judging immorality by the standards of nature makes perfect sense.

Abstract observation is not even neccessary to see the connection.

Noir

03-14-2010, 02:32 PM

Judging immorality by the standards of nature makes perfect sense.

Abstract observation is not even neccessary to see the connection.

Nature is not moral or immoral, nature is ruthless and efficient. If you think otherwise you need to watch some more nature documentaries.

82Marine89

03-14-2010, 02:38 PM

Oh hell peckerwood, just admit it!...Like most of us guys, you just like to watch two hot babes get it on...No biggie! :thumb:

But that doesn't change the facts enough to make it acceptable behavior and tell our children it's perfectly normal and A-OK.

So gay sex is OK when it satisfies your perverse needs but not OK if it is two guys? Nice double standard.

Abbey Marie

03-14-2010, 03:34 PM

I would hope that necrophilia is against the law, no?

What if I am crazy about my goat? Can I bring it? I'll put a diaper on it so there are no accidents, and we will dress formally. I don't think it's against the law to have a close friendship with a goat. And anyway, it's nobody's business what my "preferences" are, right?

LiberalNation

03-14-2010, 03:36 PM

you violote the rights of the goat, animals and children under the age of consent are protected.

Abbey Marie

03-14-2010, 03:38 PM

you violote the rights of the goat, animals and children under the age of consent are protected.

How am I violating the rights of the goat? ? I did not say that I am having sex with it. In fact, I specifically said that only I am "crazy about" it.

LiberalNation

03-14-2010, 03:40 PM

Noir

03-14-2010, 03:47 PM

How am I violating the rights of the goat? ? I did not say that I am having sex with it. In fact, I specifically said that only I am "crazy about" it.

Animals do not have the same rights has humans. You of all people should know that.

Abbey Marie

03-14-2010, 03:50 PM

cool, I'd be all for you taking it but it's still not a human and not a comparable situation. I actually find straight peoples facination with teh animal sex everytime homosexuality is brought up interesting.

Yes, it is quite interesting and comparable because it is the logical extension of what gay marriage, etc., supporters want. How can you say that the right to date/marry/bring to prom whoever or whatever you want, would ever stop at gays? I may love my goat in a way that you cannot understand. Why can't I be happy, too? How about people who will eventually be bigamists? Can they bring two or three dates? How about necrophiliacs, as someone suggested? Their date is human. How can you say that we are not discriminating against these folks?

These acts may be unnatural, but so is gay sex.

Abbey Marie

03-14-2010, 03:50 PM

Animals do not have the same rights has humans. You of all people should know that.

The human taking the animal to prom has the same rights.

Noir

03-14-2010, 04:00 PM

The human taking the animal to prom has the same rights.

But the animal does not have the right to go. If the human wanted to argue the point they could, however, they would have to argue that the goat should have the same right to go as the humans.

However, in this case, the girls do have the right to go, they just can't go with eachother, or arrive together, when everyone else can go with their boyfriend/girlfriend, ergo they wanted the same rights as other humans.

As a side note - You can argue this goat case all you like, and i'm sure with the right chose of words such a discussion could go on for many posts, but at the end of the day you know the difference as well as i do, but if you want to be so puerile as to argue the point then thats your choice,

LiberalNation

03-14-2010, 04:17 PM

Yes, it is quite interesting and comparable because it is the logical extension of what gay marriage, etc., supporters want. How can you say that the right to date/marry/bring to prom whoever or whatever you want, would ever stop at gays? I may love my goat in a way that you cannot understand. Why can't I be happy, too? How about people who will eventually be bigamists? Can they bring two or three dates? How about necrophiliacs, as someone suggested? Their date is human. How can you say that we are not discriminating against these folks?

These acts may be unnatural, but so is gay sex.
in all those cases besides bigony, which I think should also be legal, something/ones elses rights are being violated.

HogTrash

03-14-2010, 04:31 PM

So gay sex is OK when it satisfies your perverse needs but not OK if it is two guys? Nice double standard.It doesn't sound as if you read my post very carefully, cupcake.

Typical liberal trait.....You only see and hear what you want to.

Isn't it odd how the same defenders show up at every gay issue?

HogTrash

03-14-2010, 04:57 PM

Nature is not moral or immoral, nature is ruthless and efficient. If you think otherwise you need to watch some more nature documentaries.Ha-ha-ha, "ruthless and efficient" has absolutely nothing to do with the people aspect of nature.

Humans have over-riddin many of natures mistakes...The weak now succeed where once they would have failed.

Our intelligence and opposing thumb has allowed us to decide what we think should survive and we have made a few bad calls.

HogTrash

03-14-2010, 05:05 PM

Animals do not have the same rights has humans. You of all people should know that.Whoa peckerwood! :eek: I would not say this out-loud at a PETA Convention. :slap:

avatar4321

03-14-2010, 07:12 PM

If they are going to be sued, I'd cancel it too.

No school should be extorted, blackmailed, etc. If you have a complaint, take it up through the official channels. And if you dont like the decision, run against the people who made it. That's the entire point of representative government.

LiberalNation

03-14-2010, 08:03 PM

they're getting sued either way. Do you think during the civil rights era the courts should not have been involved in getting rid of segregation.

82Marine89

03-14-2010, 10:33 PM

It doesn't sound as if you read my post very carefully, cupcake.

Typical liberal trait.....You only see and hear what you want to.

Isn't it odd how the same defenders show up at every gay issue?

Actually I did HogWarts. You said,

Originally Posted by HogTrash
Oh hell peckerwood, just admit it!...Like most of us guys, you just like to watch two hot babes get it on...No biggie!

But that doesn't change the facts enough to make it acceptable behavior and tell our children it's perfectly normal and A-OK.

You said it's OK for two women to get it on and you are a voyeur. So it's OK for your wife and another women to get it on and I can watch. That doesn't make it OK that she's bisexual but because she's a woman the being gay part can be overlooked.

I fully understand. Fucking hypocrite.

avatar4321

03-17-2010, 01:11 AM

they're getting sued either way. Do you think during the civil rights era the courts should not have been involved in getting rid of segregation.

They shouldnt have created it in the first place.

LiberalNation

03-17-2010, 01:17 AM

the school shouldn't have descriminated against this girl in the first place, then they wouldn't be getting sued but no, they had to be homophobic.

glockmail

03-17-2010, 07:42 AM

No cross-dressing allowed.

LiberalNation

03-19-2010, 02:09 PM

awesome, there is college right there if she planned on going.

Ellen presents $30K to Miss. lesbian in prom flap

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100319/ap_on_en_tv/us_lesbian_prom_date

JACKSON, Miss. – A lesbian high school student embroiled in a legal flap over her school's prom policy has received a $30,000 scholarship on "The Ellen DeGeneres Show."

Constance McMillen was speechless Friday when the talk show host pulled out an oversized check from the Web site Tonic.Com, a digital media company.

DeGeneres says she admires McMillen for challenging Itawamba County School District rules that would prevent her from escorting her girlfriend to the prom. The school district canceled the April 2 prom after McMillen's request.

A hearing is scheduled Monday in federal court in Aberdeen on American Civil Liberties Union efforts to force the district to hold the prom.

LiberalNation

03-23-2010, 05:27 PM

no suprise

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100323/ap_on_re_us/us_lesbian_prom_date;_ylt=AiA458XtcqTPf1.2nMWvXbJv zwcF;_ylu=X3oDMTJsN2x2ZXZ0BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwMzIz L3VzX2xlc2JpYW5fcHJvbV9kYXRlBGNwb3MDMgRwb3MDNgRzZW MDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3J5BHNsawNqdWRnZXdvbnRmb3I-

JACKSON, Miss. – A Mississippi school district violated a lesbian student's rights by banning her from bringing her girlfriend to the prom, a federal judge ruled Tuesday, but he stopped short of forcing the district to hold the event.

U.S. District Judge Glen H. Davidson denied an American Civil Liberties Union request for a preliminary injunction that would have forced the Itawamba County school district to sponsor the April 2 prom and allow Constance McMillen to escort her girlfriend and wear a tuxedo.

Davidson did say he will hold a trial on the issue later, but he did not set a date and any ruling would likely come too late to force the district to hold the prom when it was originally scheduled.

Davidson's order says the district violated McMillen's constitutional rights by denying her request to bring her girlfriend and wear a tuxedo, and ACLU Mississippi legal director Kristy Bennett called that a victory.

She said Davidson's order allows McMillen to amend her petition within 30 days, meaning she could sue for damages because she couldn't get the prom reinstated.

Davidson said he denied the injunction request because a private prom parents are planning will serve the same purpose as the school prom. He wrote in his ruling that "requiring defendants to step back into a sponsorship role at this late date would only confuse and confound the community on the issue."

School officials said in court they decided to call off the prom at Itawamba Agricultural High School because McMillen's challenge to the rules had caused disruptions.