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View Full Version : Hate crime in Maine: ham steak placed on table where Muslims were sitting!



darin
04-24-2007, 08:47 AM
Oh the HUMANITY! Where's the "Crime"? Is it now unlawful to simply HATE?

IDIOTS...


http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/016136.php

"Death to Israel" scrawled on the wall of a synagogue? Oh, that's only "possibly" (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/015901.php) a hate crime. Ham steak placed on a table full of Muslims? Oh, now that's a clear hate crime, meriting the severest possible punishment!

"'Hate incident' in city," by Bonnie Washuk for the Sun Journal, with thanks to all who sent this in:

LEWISTON - One student has been suspended and more disciplinary action could follow a possible hate crime at Lewiston Middle School, Superintendent Leon Levesque said Wednesday.

On April 11, a white student placed a ham steak in a bag on a lunch table where Somali students were eating. Muslims consider pork unclean and offensive.

The act reminded students of a man who threw a pig's head into a Lewiston mosque last summer.

The school incident is being treated seriously as "a hate incident," Levesque said. Lewiston police are investigating, and the Center for the Prevention of Hate Violence is working with the school to create a response plan.

"We've got some work to do to turn this around and bring the school community back together again," Levesque said.

Placing ham where Muslim students were eating was "an awful thing," said Stephen Wessler, executive director of the Center for Prevention of Hate Violence. "It's extraordinarily hurtful and degrading" to Muslims, whose religion prohibits them from being around ham. It's important to respond swiftly, Wessler said.

"Incidents like this that involve degrading language or conduct are often said by the perpetrator as a joke. I know that conduct is never static," he said. "It's part of a process of escalation."

If people think insulting Muslims with ham is OK, "More degrading acts will follow, until at some point we'll end up having violence," Wessler said.

Committed by whom, Wessler?

The incident does not reflect the moral values of the school staff and students, Levesque said. "We need to take a look at this and review how a careless act is degrading and causes hurt to other people. All our students should feel welcome and safe in our schools."

He said a letter would be sent home to parents explaining what happened and outlining the school's response. Wessler will meet with students to address the school's climate, and staff will talk about how to respond to and prevent future hate incidents

'I didn't feel safe'

A 14-year-old Somali boy, whose mother asked that his name not be published, said he was eating lunch with four other Somali students on April 11. He noticed many others in the cafeteria "standing up, looking at us."

One boy came near, began laughing and threw a bag on the table while other students laughed and said, 'Good job.'"

"We didn't know what was in this bag," the boy said. "One of my friends reached inside it. It was a big ham steak. There were five of us at the table, all Somali. It was intended for us."

The boy said he looked up at students he thought were his friends. "I felt angered, offended."

He suddenly felt like he was alone. "At the school the next day, I didn't feel safe. I felt like everybody was against me. Before I felt like I fit in, and everything was normal."

He began to think white students didn't like him, and the act was their way of letting him know.

On Thursday, several students came up to him and said, "Those guys who did it were jerks. I apologize for them, and I hope you feel better."

The boy said they did make him feel better. "But for the rest of my life when I remember middle school, this will pop up right away."

You know, I hated middle school too. Children treated each other horribly every day. I remember one time some idiot spit into sandwich of some guy who had walked away from the table. It it is an age at which children can be especially cruel and brutal. But the sandwich-spitter was the same race as his victim, and it was a (marginally) saner time, so that story didn't end up in the newspaper.

This culture of softness and victimization is no good for anyone. Obviously we are on the way to treating Muslims as a privileged class, around whom everyone else must tiptoe, so that they are protected from all possible offense, even offenses committed by boorish prankster schoolchildren.

I also wonder if these Somali students would prefer a ham steak on their table, or life in Mogadishu. As I recall there were incidents in Nazi Germany in which Jews were beaten and forced to eat bacon. Those were hate crimes. Ham steak on a table in a lunchroom? Come on.

Other sources:
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&resnum=0&q=ham%20maine%20somali&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wn

shattered
04-24-2007, 09:03 AM
It doesn't speak too well of us, if the kid did it simply to be an ass. It's not like he put his lunch down, and was intending to eat with them, but just didn't think.

He was a complete ass about it, and did it purposely. While not exactly a "crime", I think the student should be suspended and have his ass kicked by his parents.

darin
04-24-2007, 09:12 AM
It doesn't speak too well of us, if the kid did it simply to be an ass. It's not like he put his lunch down, and was intending to eat with them, but just didn't think.

He was a complete ass about it, and did it purposely. While not exactly a "crime", I think the student should be suspended and have his ass kicked by his parents.


Sure - it was poor taste. But that's it - let parents impose the punishment/corrective actions. A 'crime'? No way.

shattered
04-24-2007, 09:13 AM
Sure - it was poor taste. But that's it - let parents impose the punishment/corrective actions. A 'crime'? No way.

I already agreed it's not a "crime".. But, on the other hand, if he did it maliciously, which he did, what are his PARENTS teaching him? Thus, what kind of punishment do you think they'd really dole out?

darin
04-24-2007, 09:15 AM
I already agreed it's not a "crime".. But, on the other hand, if he did it maliciously, which he did, what are his PARENTS teaching him? Thus, what kind of punishment do you think they'd really dole out?

I didn't say you said it WAS a crime. :)

Maliciously? It was a prank. A bad Prank. A prank which caused NO ill-effects; saved for canned responses from the 'victims'.

:-/

theHawk
04-24-2007, 09:20 AM
Welcome to American schools. Can't handle it? I'm sure there are wonderful Muslim schools back in Somalia.

Mr. P
04-24-2007, 09:20 AM
It doesn't speak too well of us, if the kid did it simply to be an ass. It's not like he put his lunch down, and was intending to eat with them, but just didn't think.

He was a complete ass about it, and did it purposely. While not exactly a "crime", I think the student should be suspended and have his ass kicked by his parents.

Suspended for a tasteless prank? Nahhhh. I would have sat down and started eating the ham myself. Hey, some like tuna some don't, sorry you're offended by my lunch, whatever it may be. :laugh2:

shattered
04-24-2007, 09:21 AM
I didn't say you said it WAS a crime. :)

Maliciously? It was a prank. A bad Prank. A prank which caused NO ill-effects; saved for canned responses from the 'victims'.

:-/

It sounds to me like it was plotted out, and he was egged on by his friends. It was meant to do some damage, and apparently it did - mentally. *shrug* That's their religion - that's their beliefs, and they live by them, much like you live by your religion, and feel affronted when someone comes along to try and make a mockery of it in your face.

A prank would have been to just dump it on a plate on the table, and run off.. Instead, they concealed it in a paper bag, forcing one or more of the students to actually TOUCH it, which I'm assuming is even worse than just sitting by it.

Simply, this kid needs his ass kicked, and he needs some other form of punishment.

shattered
04-24-2007, 09:22 AM
Suspended for a tasteless prank? Nahhhh. I would have sat down and started eating the ham myself. Hey, some like tuna some don't, sorry you're offended by my lunch, whatever it may be. :laugh2:

Hey, if it were the kids lunch, and he sat down and ate it at the same table, you'd be 100% right. After all, lunch tables are not assigned.

shattered
04-24-2007, 09:23 AM
Just remember..everyone complains about "kids these days" having no respect, no sense of responsibility, etc..

Well, guess who they're learning from? :)

darin
04-24-2007, 09:27 AM
That's their religion - that's their beliefs, and they live by them, much like you live by your religion, and feel affronted when someone comes along to try and make a mockery of it in your face.


No I don't. I pitty them.

avatar4321
04-24-2007, 03:12 PM
Let's see if i understand this completely. An insensitive kid put ham on a table with muslims students, and the muslim students are saying if things keep up things will get violent, and the insensitive kid is the one who is committing crime and not the ones threatening violence???

darin
04-24-2007, 03:19 PM
Let's see if i understand this completely. An insensitive kid put ham on a table with muslims students, and the muslim students are saying if things keep up things will get violent, and the insensitive kid is the one who is committing crime and not the ones threatening violence???

You've got it.

Nienna
04-24-2007, 04:26 PM
The kid was being a jerk; he should have been more respectful of other people's religious beliefs... but if more Muslim PARENTS would speak out about... oh...say... NOT BLOWING PEOPLE UP, then maybe their children would have less chance of being "victimized" at school.

Gaffer
04-24-2007, 05:11 PM
He went about it all wrong he needed to rub the ham in his hands and then walk around and shake hands with all the muslims. The old greasy handshake trick.

If he was my kid I would have to get on him about wasting a good piece of ham. Could have just as easily thrown a bag of porkrinds on the table.

:pee: muslims

shattered
04-24-2007, 08:39 PM
He went about it all wrong he needed to rub the ham in his hands and then walk around and shake hands with all the muslims. The old greasy handshake trick.

If he was my kid I would have to get on him about wasting a good piece of ham. Could have just as easily thrown a bag of porkrinds on the table.

:pee: muslims

Again.. Part of the reason I think kids are turning out so disrespectful these days.. Two wrongs don't make a right...These are kids - not terrorists.

Hugh Lincoln
04-24-2007, 08:53 PM
Who dumped 50 busloads of black Muslim Somalis on Maine, again? They are all on welfare, but according to our masters, they add "diversity" to the state. Here's your wonderful "diversity." Now they get students suspended, cost the district millions for a "race discrimination" lawsuit, muck, muck, muck. Fuck diversity, fuck Muslims, fuck open borders. It's all a load of pigshit. Nobody's better off, it's just making our nation a Third-World pigsty.

Hey, know what happened to the Muslim Somalis who did THIS?

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/03/21/africa/AF-GEN-Somalia.php

Guess what, Diversity Lovers? NOTHING! They drag our servicemen's corpses in the street, and then dance a little monkey dance for joy. White kid in Maine puts a ham sandwich on the table, and he gets the death penalty.

Had enough, white people? No, you haven't. You'll gladly take more, I know.

shattered
04-24-2007, 08:59 PM
Who dumped 50 busloads of black Muslim Somalis on Maine, again? They are all on welfare, but according to our masters, they add "diversity" to the state. Here's your wonderful "diversity." Now they get students suspended, cost the district millions for a "race discrimination" lawsuit, muck, muck, muck. Fuck diversity, fuck Muslims, fuck open borders. It's all a load of pigshit. Nobody's better off, it's just making our nation a Third-World pigsty.

How, exactly, did they get students suspended by sitting down in their own little group and having lunch? Did one of those students follow another home at gunpoint, force them to get some ham, put it in a bag, carry it to school...nevermind. It's too utterly ridiculous to finish.

Kids that behave in this manner are just as likely to steal your purse when you're hobbling down the street with a walker at the age of 85.. "Officer, it was just a prank!" Throwing rocks at your house as they drive by.. "Officer, it was just a prank!" Graffiti on public buildings... "Officer, it was just a prank!"

shattered
04-24-2007, 09:00 PM
Who dumped 50 busloads of black Muslim Somalis on Maine, again? They are all on welfare, but according to our masters, they add "diversity" to the state. Here's your wonderful "diversity." Now they get students suspended, cost the district millions for a "race discrimination" lawsuit, muck, muck, muck. Fuck diversity, fuck Muslims, fuck open borders. It's all a load of pigshit. Nobody's better off, it's just making our nation a Third-World pigsty.

Hey, know what happened to the Muslim Somalis who did THIS?

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/03/21/africa/AF-GEN-Somalia.php

Guess what, Diversity Lovers? NOTHING! They drag our servicemen's corpses in the street, and then dance a little monkey dance for joy. White kid in Maine puts a ham sandwich on the table, and he gets the death penalty.

Had enough, white people? No, you haven't. You'll gladly take more, I know.


Did those <b>kids</b> do that in Maine?

I didn't think so.

Gaffer
04-24-2007, 09:23 PM
Again.. Part of the reason I think kids are turning out so disrespectful these days.. Two wrongs don't make a right...These are kids - not terrorists.

They are future terrorists.

shattered
04-24-2007, 09:25 PM
They are future terrorists.

Speculation. And we're obviously setting a really good example on how to respect other people, aren't we?

Can you *honestly* tell me that if your child did something like this, you'd pat them on the back? Seriously?

Gunny
04-24-2007, 09:25 PM
He went about it all wrong he needed to rub the ham in his hands and then walk around and shake hands with all the muslims. The old greasy handshake trick.

If he was my kid I would have to get on him about wasting a good piece of ham. Could have just as easily thrown a bag of porkrinds on the table.
:pee: muslims

:laugh2:

shattered
04-24-2007, 09:28 PM
For the record, I'm not a big believer in this diversity crap, but I am a big believer of live and let live, and a believer in doing right vs. doing wrong, regardless of whether I "just can"..

This was just wrong.

Gunny
04-24-2007, 09:41 PM
For the record, I'm not a big believer in this diversity crap, but I am a big believer of live and let live, and a believer in doing right vs. doing wrong, regardless of whether I "just can"..

This was just wrong.

In poor taste? Yes. Crime? Hardly.

Doesn't mean what gaffer said isn't funny.:poke:

shattered
04-24-2007, 09:42 PM
In poor taste? Yes. Crime? Hardly.

Doesn't mean what gaffer said isn't funny.:poke:

I clearly stated in post 2, and I think post 4 I did not agree that it was a crime. Merely said the kid needs his ass kicked. But, if the kid is doing shit like this, what are the parents teaching anyway?

Gunny
04-24-2007, 09:48 PM
I clearly stated in post 2, and I think post 4 I did not agree that it was a crime. Merely said the kid needs his ass kicked. But, if the kid is doing shit like this, what are the parents teaching anyway?

Maybe the kid just watches the news and the people around him and made his own decision based on his feeling about Arab Muslims?

Gaffer
04-24-2007, 09:49 PM
It was meant as a joke. But I do dispise mulsims and as to punshing my kid for that I seriously doubt I would. islam is taken too lightly in this country and the rest of the world. There's going to be hell to pay down the road as these people increase in numbers and demands.

No muslims near me right now, but you can be sure if there were I would be starting a pig farm. I might anyway. And give all the pigs muslim names.

shattered
04-24-2007, 09:49 PM
Maybe the kid just watches the news and the people around him and made his own decision based on his feeling about Arab Muslims?

How many high school kids do YOU know run right home and watch the 6:00 news?

5stringJeff
04-24-2007, 09:53 PM
It was meant as a joke. But I do dispise mulsims and as to punshing my kid for that I seriously doubt I would. islam is taken too lightly in this country and the rest of the world. There's going to be hell to pay down the road as these people increase in numbers and demands.

No muslims near me right now, but you can be sure if there were I would be starting a pig farm. I might anyway. And give all the pigs muslim names.

I agree with your assessment, both of the incident and of Islam.

Gunny
04-24-2007, 09:56 PM
How many high school kids do YOU know run right home and watch the 6:00 news?

In today's information age? They couldn't help but be exposed to it if they simply just turn on the computer.

I, and most of my friends were politically aware in HS, and we only had the 6 o'clock news and newspaper.

shattered
04-24-2007, 09:57 PM
*shrug* I used to skip Sunday School as a kid, and go play down the block.. But I guess there's one lesson I DID pick up, and that's "Do unto others...

(And no, NOT ...before they do to you...)

Gunny
04-24-2007, 10:03 PM
*shrug* I used to skip Sunday School as a kid, and go play down the block.. But I guess there's one lesson I DID pick up, and that's "Do unto others...

(And no, NOT ...before they do to you...)

You DARE chastise me and YOU skipped Sunday School?:dev:

I did not excuse the kid's actions. I qeustioned blaming his actions on "what he's being taught at home." I already stated his actions were in poor taste.

shattered
04-24-2007, 10:06 PM
You DARE chastise me and YOU skipped Sunday School?:dev:

I did not excuse the kid's actions. I qeustioned blaming his actions on "what he's being taught at home." I already stated his actions were in poor taste.

*shrug* I never did buy that whole religion thing.. Not even when I was 7...

Gaffer
04-24-2007, 10:33 PM
*shrug* I never did buy that whole religion thing.. Not even when I was 7...

well get ready cause islams coming to a neighborhood near you. And if you think fundimentalist christians are bad wait till you meet the fundie islamists.

Abbey Marie
04-24-2007, 11:45 PM
Remember the Seinfeld episode where George secretly put lobster in the scrambled eggs of a girl who kept Kosher? I guess now that episode would be considered to be glorifying a hate crime. Ridiculous.

manu1959
04-24-2007, 11:48 PM
Remember the Seinfeld episode where George secrelty put lobster in the scrambled eggs of a girl who kept Kosher? I guess now that episode would be considered to be glorifying a hate crime. Ridiculous.

shrinkage episode......

Abbey Marie
04-24-2007, 11:51 PM
shrinkage episode......

Also, the "breathtaking baby" episode. One of the best.

manu1959
04-24-2007, 11:53 PM
Also, the "breathtaking baby" episode. One of the best.

master of your domain.....

avatar4321
04-25-2007, 05:26 AM
How, exactly, did they get students suspended by sitting down in their own little group and having lunch? Did one of those students follow another home at gunpoint, force them to get some ham, put it in a bag, carry it to school...nevermind. It's too utterly ridiculous to finish.

Kids that behave in this manner are just as likely to steal your purse when you're hobbling down the street with a walker at the age of 85.. "Officer, it was just a prank!" Throwing rocks at your house as they drive by.. "Officer, it was just a prank!" Graffiti on public buildings... "Officer, it was just a prank!"

Oh i have no doubt there should have been some inter school discipline. but making it a criminal offense? When its being suggested that if the kid did it again there would be violence against him? The threat of violence is far worse than anything that kid did and those suggesting violence should be punished far more than the kid who merely disrespected his classmates.

Joe Schmoe
04-25-2007, 06:39 AM
Absolutely. Students must learn to deal with violence and intimidation. These are fundamental in the United States.

Mr. P
04-25-2007, 06:51 AM
Absolutely. Students must learn to deal with violence and intimidation. These are fundamental in the United States.

It's fundamental in life, period.

glockmail
04-25-2007, 07:32 AM
It doesn't speak too well of us, if the kid did it simply to be an ass. It's not like he put his lunch down, and was intending to eat with them, but just didn't think.

He was a complete ass about it, and did it purposely. While not exactly a "crime", I think the student should be suspended and have his ass kicked by his parents.


It's a gawddam middle school. The kid was probably 12. Gimme a friggin' break.

shattered
04-25-2007, 07:43 AM
It's a gawddam middle school. The kid was probably 12. Gimme a friggin' break.

*shrug* If it were my kid, he'd have gotten his ass kicked for fucking off in school, then he'd have gotten his ass kicked for intentionally causing trouble with other people, and then, believe it or not, he'd have been apologizing.

Regardless of what you think those kids will grow up to be, they are KIDS in school, who are supposed to be there getting an education.

KitchenKitten99
04-25-2007, 07:51 AM
the prank was in bad taste. Kid should be disciplined-it would be similar to doing it to someone Jewish, though I doubt they would freak out about it. Musilm students should also be disciplined for their threats of violence.

...and Seinfeld was stupid & repetitive.

In the mean time, while I can't start a pig farm, a pet pig would be cool. I hear they make great pets.

glockmail
04-25-2007, 08:08 AM
*shrug* If it were my kid, he'd have gotten his ass kicked for fucking off in school, then he'd have gotten his ass kicked for intentionally causing trouble with other people, and then, believe it or not, he'd have been apologizing.

Regardless of what you think those kids will grow up to be, they are KIDS in school, who are supposed to be there getting an education. Bullshit. We had a lot of jewish (kosher) kids where I grew up, and I was friends with lots of them. We were contstantly doing that type of crap. A bacon cheesburger was the biggest laugh ever! This is political correctness run amuck.

shattered
04-25-2007, 08:12 AM
Bullshit. We had a lot of jewish (kosher) kids where I grew up, and I was friends with lots of them. We were contstantly doing that type of crap. A bacon cheesburger was the biggest laugh ever! This is political correctness run amuck.

*shrug* I guess I'm just a much nicer person than you. :)

glockmail
04-25-2007, 08:19 AM
*shrug* I guess I'm just a much nicer person than you. :) I remember when my best friend got in big trouble as a camp counselor for making a cheesburger in the kosher kitchen. He and his buds had to clean both kitchens (one for milk, the other for meat) with a rabbi looking on, or something like that. What a hoot!

But as I recall, none of that was published in the gawddam papers about a friggin' hate crime.

Total bullshit. Where the hell is this damn world coming to?

These freaking muzzies want us to change our culture to suit them. To that I say BULL!

shattered
04-25-2007, 08:21 AM
I remember when my best friend got in big trouble as a camp counselor for making a cheesburger in the kosher kitchen. He and his buds had to clean both kitchens (one for milk, the other for meat) with a rabbi looking on, or something like that. What a hoot!

But as I recall, none of that was published in the gawddam papers about a friggin' hate crime.

Total bullshit. Where the hell is this damn world coming to?

These freaking muzzies want us to change our culture to suit them. To that I say BULL!

Why are you still harping on the hate crime, when absolutely NOBODY has said it qualifies as a crime (at least on this board)? It qualifies as an ass-kicking from the parents, and if the PARENTS think that behavior is completely acceptable, they need THEIR asses kicked, too.

glockmail
04-25-2007, 08:55 AM
Why are you still harping on the hate crime, when absolutely NOBODY has said it qualifies as a crime (at least on this board)? It qualifies as an ass-kicking from the parents, and if the PARENTS think that behavior is completely acceptable, they need THEIR asses kicked, too. It doesn't qualify as as ass kicking either. The muzzies love to play victim as part of their overall stategy for world domination and y'all who treat them with kid gloves are enablers.

darin
04-25-2007, 08:56 AM
I wonder why the Muslims 'hurt' by this aren't reaching OUT to the offending kid, in LOVE?

shattered
04-25-2007, 08:57 AM
It doesn't qualify as as ass kicking either. The muzzies love to play victim as part of their overall stategy for world domination and y'all who treat them with kid gloves are enablers.

What the fuck did those kids do to anyone, other than sit down and eat their lunch, and retaliate when provoked?

Tell me, in plain terms, what was the POINT behind purposely provoking them?

darin
04-25-2007, 08:58 AM
Where's the FORGIVENESS?

shattered
04-25-2007, 08:59 AM
Where's the FORGIVENESS?

It skipped town with the "Do unto others".

darin
04-25-2007, 09:01 AM
It skipped town with the "Do unto others".

Naw - it's cuz those families CANT forgive if they have ANY HOPE of suing somebody. :-/

There's NO excuse for those muslim families to NOT be charitable, humble, and forgiving. None.

shattered
04-25-2007, 09:02 AM
Naw - it's cuz those families CANT forgive if they have ANY HOPE of suing somebody. :-/

There's NO excuse for those muslim families to NOT be charitable, humble, and forgiving. None.

But yet there's plenty of excuse for "our" kids to pull what they did? Bullshit.

darin
04-25-2007, 09:06 AM
But yet there's plenty of excuse for "our" kids to pull what they did? Bullshit.

Who is making excuses for what the kids did? the Entire PROBLEM is the Greedy Bastard Families of the "victims" here, and the spineless idiot-of-a-principal who's doing the WRONG thing.

glockmail
04-25-2007, 09:07 AM
I wonder why the Muslims 'hurt' by this aren't reaching OUT to the offending kid, in LOVE? Because Islam is usually spread by the sword.

shattered
04-25-2007, 09:09 AM
Who is making excuses for what the kids did? the Entire PROBLEM is the Greedy Bastard Families of the "victims" here, and the spineless idiot-of-a-principal who's doing the WRONG thing.

But there more than likely wouldn't BE a problem, if "our" kids wouldn't have decided a stupid, and thoughtless "prank" was in order, now would there? Why does nobody think "our" kids should be called on their behavior in any way?

glockmail
04-25-2007, 09:11 AM
What the fuck did those kids do to anyone, other than sit down and eat their lunch, and retaliate when provoked?

Tell me, in plain terms, what was the POINT behind purposely provoking them?

That's what kids do. Why do you provoke me, and I provoke you? Because we can. But not in this new Politically Correct world that libs want to make, muzzies insist on, and you enable. Bullshit. :slap:

shattered
04-25-2007, 09:15 AM
That's what kids do. Why do you provoke me, and I provoke you? Because we can. But not in this new Politically Correct world that libs want to make, muzzies insist on, and you enable. Bullshit. :slap:

I "enable" because I prefer NOT to go and make trouble with someone JUST because I can, and think bratty fucking kids should be held accountable for their actions, especially when unprovoked?

darin
04-25-2007, 09:15 AM
But there more than likely wouldn't BE a problem, if "our" kids wouldn't have decided a stupid, and thoughtless "prank" was in order, now would there? Why does nobody think "our" kids should be called on their behavior in any way?

How can you say nobody thinks the non-muslim kids shouldn't be called on their behavior? I think EVERYONE here thinks it was stupid. But it was harmless. No blood, no foul. You're CATERING to whiners, 'Red.

glockmail
04-25-2007, 09:18 AM
I "enable" because I prefer NOT to go and make trouble with someone JUST because I can, and think bratty fucking kids should be held accountable for their actions, especially when unprovoked?

Here's the muzzies agenda. http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=46054&postcount=1

shattered
04-25-2007, 09:20 AM
How can you say nobody thinks the non-muslim kids shouldn't be called on their behavior? I think EVERYONE here thinks it was stupid. But it was harmless. No blood, no foul. You're CATERING to whiners, 'Red.

No, I'm not catering to "whiners".. In fact, you KNOW my opinion on whiners, and have for a long time.. It equates to "suck it up and deal with it". If I were "catering to whiners", I'd be all for the crime aspect of it, don'tcha think? As I said.. An apology, and an ass kicking is in order.

SO far, I've seen ONE person admit that it was in very poor taste. I've seen everyone ELSE basically pat the kids on the back, in a manner of speaking, with one person "correcting" them for not just smearing pork all over their hands, and forcing them into a handshake.

Hell, I've seen YOU threaten to kick YOUR kids asses for far LESS, and until this very second, YOU haven't even admitted that what was done was stupid, and thoughtless.. (Hell, you, personally, may not have even said it, but you said "everyone", so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.)

darin
04-25-2007, 09:40 AM
No, I'm not catering to "whiners".. In fact, you KNOW my opinion on whiners, and have for a long time.. It equates to "suck it up and deal with it". If I were "catering to whiners", I'd be all for the crime aspect of it, don'tcha think? As I said.. An apology, and an ass kicking is in order.

The kid DID apologize - Now, everyone involved needs to LET IT GO. (shrug). That's the whole point.




SO far, I've seen ONE person admit that it was in very poor taste. I've seen everyone ELSE basically pat the kids on the back, in a manner of speaking, with one person "correcting" them for not just smearing pork all over their hands, and forcing them into a handshake.

It's about context and perspective. In the big-picture it was just a harmless, stupid prank. Treat it as such.



Hell, I've seen YOU threaten to kick YOUR kids asses for far LESS, and until this very second, YOU haven't even admitted that what was done was stupid, and thoughtless.. (Hell, you, personally, may not have even said it, but you said "everyone", so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.)

Kick my kids ass for less than what? For putting a ham sandwich on a table where muslims sit? That act ranks SO FAR DOWN my scale of "What kids need their ass-beat for" that it's not even on my radar.

shattered
04-25-2007, 09:42 AM
The kid DID apologize - Now, everyone involved needs to LET IT GO. (shrug). That's the whole point.




It's about context and perspective. In the big-picture it was just a harmless, stupid prank. Treat it as such.



Kick my kids ass for less than what? For putting a ham sandwich on a table where muslims sit? That act ranks SO FAR DOWN my scale of "What kids need their ass-beat for" that it's not even on my radar.

So, complete disrespect for another human being "just because" is ok.

Got it.

glockmail
04-25-2007, 09:47 AM
So, complete disrespect for another human being "just because" is ok.

Got it.

What a bullshit response. Making fun of diffenrent customs is part of American culture. The muzzies need to deal with that instead of trying to destroy our culture. I can't believe you could be an enabler. :poke:

theHawk
04-25-2007, 09:49 AM
How is putting a sandwich on a table "complete disrespect for another human being"? You make it sound like he stomped his brains out.

Jon
04-25-2007, 09:49 AM
So, complete disrespect for another human being "just because" is ok.

Got it.

I'd kick my kid's ass for pulling something like that. No question.

darin
04-25-2007, 10:12 AM
So, complete disrespect for another human being "just because" is ok.

Got it.

Using extreme language and degrading it to the WORST POSSIBLE way of looking at what i wrote will NOT cause you to win an argument.

glockmail
04-25-2007, 10:38 AM
I'd kick my kid's ass for pulling something like that. No question. No you wouldn't.

darin
04-25-2007, 10:42 AM
No you wouldn't.

How do you figure you know Jon more than Jon?

Hagbard Celine
04-25-2007, 10:44 AM
Welcome to American schools. Can't handle it? I'm sure there are wonderful Muslim schools back in Somalia.

Calling it a crime is over the top but looking the other way and acting as if nothing happened or acting as if bigoted behavior is to be expected in American schools as you have here is unresponsible. Attitudes like yours are the reason we're still having to deal with this kind of crap in the 21st century. If people would just teach their kids that teasing based on race, gender and religion is wrong, we'd see bigotry erased in one generation.

Hagbard Celine
04-25-2007, 10:45 AM
How is putting a sandwich on a table "complete disrespect for another human being"? You make it sound like he stomped his brains out.

He showed complete disrespect for his religion. I know for a fact you'd be offended too.

darin
04-25-2007, 10:47 AM
Calling it a crime is over the top but looking the other way and acting as if nothing happened or acting as if bigoted behavior is to be expected in American schools as you have here is unresponsible. Attitudes like yours are the reason we're still having to deal with this kind of crap in the 21st century. If people would just teach their kids that teasing based on race, gender and religion is wrong, we'd see bigotry erased in one generation.

Where was the bigoted behaviour? It was a KID pulling at stupid Prank. Akin to giving somebody a wedgy, or...or...I'd bet Big Money if the offended persons were Christians or Jews nobody would be reading about this story.

glockmail
04-25-2007, 10:49 AM
How do you figure you know Jon more than Jon? Have you seen how cute his kids are and how proud he is of them? No sane person could beat on them. When they're old enough to do something dumb and harmless all they'll get is a slap on the wrist- tops.

glockmail
04-25-2007, 10:50 AM
Calling it a crime is over the top but looking the other way and acting as if nothing happened or acting as if bigoted behavior is to be expected in American schools as you have here is unresponsible. Attitudes like yours are the reason we're still having to deal with this kind of crap in the 21st century. If people would just teach their kids that teasing based on race, gender and religion is wrong, we'd see bigotry erased in one generation.

Not looking the other way will teach the muzzies that playing the victim works. That's why Europe is about to become Euro-arabia. We red meat Americans won't stand for it. :pee:

glockmail
04-25-2007, 10:51 AM
He showed complete disrespect for his religion. I know for a fact you'd be offended too. I'd have ate the sandwhich. :laugh2:

Hagbard Celine
04-25-2007, 10:51 AM
Where was the bigoted behaviour? It was a KID pulling at stupid Prank. Akin to giving somebody a wedgy, or...or...I'd bet Big Money if the offended persons were Christians or Jews nobody would be reading about this story.

Dude. Not eating ham is part of the Muslim religion. The kid put HAM on the table because he knew it would offend the Muslim kids. That's bigotry. If you don't see it you're too dense to even carry a driver's license.

glockmail
04-25-2007, 10:51 AM
Where was the bigoted behaviour? It was a KID pulling at stupid Prank. Akin to giving somebody a wedgy, or...or...I'd bet Big Money if the offended persons were Christians or Jews nobody would be reading about this story. No bet there.

Hagbard Celine
04-25-2007, 10:54 AM
I'd have ate the sandwhich. :laugh2:

Me too, but what if the kid had put a Jesus sux, feed Christians to the lions note on the table in front of your Christian kids? I think you'd be offended.

glockmail
04-25-2007, 10:59 AM
Me too, but what if the kid had put a Jesus sux, feed Christians to the lions note on the table in front of your Christian kids? I think you'd be offended. I'd tell my kids to do exactly what I'd do: laugh in their faces. :laugh2:

darin
04-25-2007, 11:00 AM
Dude. Not eating ham is part of the Muslim religion. The kid put HAM on the table because he knew it would offend the Muslim kids. That's bigotry. If you don't see it you're too dense to even carry a driver's license.

Why the ad hominem? Do you feel your case is STRONGER when you toss-out insults?

That's NOT bigotry. That's a kid being an ass. Somebody was (Oooh!!) "offended". So what? No crime. Just a stupid Prank.


For the record, I'd bet all the money in my bank account I'm a MUCH better driver than you. :) :D

darin
04-25-2007, 11:01 AM
I'd tell my kids to do exactly what I'd do: laugh in their faces. :laugh2:

Right "Ha-ha...I get it...we don't like pigs...gotcha...real-funny, asshole.." And that'd have been the end of it. But one kid was quoted as saying "When I saw it was ham, I felt like God was Banishing my soul to hell to burn for eternity!"

wow.

Jon
04-25-2007, 11:03 AM
Have you seen how cute his kids are and how proud he is of them? No sane person could beat on them. When they're old enough to do something dumb and harmless all they'll get is a slap on the wrist- tops.

Cute/Proud or not, my kids will be raised the way I was raised.

glockmail
04-25-2007, 11:50 AM
Cute/Proud or not, my kids will be raised the way I was raised.
So you're old man would bust you for giving a muzzy a hard time? Doubt it.

darin
04-25-2007, 11:55 AM
So you're old man would bust you for giving a muzzy a hard time? Doubt it.

Even MY dad would bust me for blatant disrespect. Muslims ARE people. That said, this incident is WAY over-blown.

glockmail
04-25-2007, 12:03 PM
Even MY dad would bust me for blatant disrespect. Muslims ARE people. That said, this incident is WAY over-blown. Mine would have laughed. That insensitive bastard. (Thanks for being a real man, Dad.)

darin
04-25-2007, 12:18 PM
Mine would have laughed. That insensitive bastard. (Thanks for being a real man, Dad.)

It's not being a Real Man to show disrespect for others - too stubborn and afraid to change and grow. :)

glockmail
04-25-2007, 12:52 PM
It's not being a Real Man to show disrespect for others - too stubborn and afraid to change and grow. :) Real men don't tolerate those that play victim.

Pale Rider
04-25-2007, 02:29 PM
Dude. Not eating ham is part of the Muslim religion. The kid put HAM on the table because he knew it would offend the Muslim kids. That's bigotry. If you don't see it you're too dense to even carry a driver's license.

The sarcastic slap at dmp wasn't called for smartass.

And "pork". Fucking PORK! What in the HELL is the big deal?! Muslim's need to suck it up. This is fucking AMERICA! You don't like the way we are, THEN WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING HERE? LEAVE!

This whole thing has given me an idea. The next time I'm beside a rag head in an eating establishment, I'm going to order something with HAM in it, look right at the fucker and say, "SURE SOUNDS GOOD DOESN'T IT?" If he responds that I've somehow OFFENDED him, I'll tell him to "GO FUCK HIMSELF".

glockmail
04-25-2007, 03:29 PM
Unrelated but related item: the meatpacker's union is trying to unionize some of the NC hog plants, and held a protest at a local supermarket, asking patrons not to but pork products. I bought ham, bacon, sausage, and a big pork loin that day.

Screw the unions- screw the muzzies. :laugh2:

shattered
04-25-2007, 07:35 PM
Using extreme language and degrading it to the WORST POSSIBLE way of looking at what i wrote will NOT cause you to win an argument.

What extreme language? You've heard me use "extreme" language - that wasn't it..

You've essentially said this is "Ok - no big deal". This is their religion - it's not just something they "don't like". Major difference.

Hugh Lincoln
04-25-2007, 08:31 PM
*shrug* I used to skip Sunday School as a kid, and go play down the block.. But I guess there's one lesson I DID pick up, and that's "Do unto others...

(And no, NOT ...before they do to you...)

Sure, but if Somali Muslims were really "doing unto others", do you think they'd be sponging off welfare in the States? They can't even conceive of the concept because Africans don't HAVE welfare! That's whitey's concept! They see whites as an opportunity for exploitation of resources. We imagine that they're poor little pups needing our great white help. We are deluded.

shattered
04-25-2007, 08:33 PM
Sure, but if Somali Muslims were really "doing unto others", do you think they'd be sponging off welfare in the States? They can't even conceive of the concept because Africans don't HAVE welfare! That's whitey's concept! They see whites as an opportunity for exploitation of resources. We imagine that they're poor little pups needing our great white help. We are deluded.

I know quite a few Muslims, and I don't know of one that's collecting welfare of any sort..I do know some that are working 2 and sometimes 3 jobs, tho.. Doesn't mean there aren't, but hell, Americans are sponging off a welfare system that needs a major overhaul, so what's your point?

Hugh Lincoln
04-25-2007, 08:40 PM
I could go on at length about Muslims in the U.S. in general. But the Somali Muslims of Maine are the focus of the story that launched the thread. Many are located in Lewiston, Maine, a hard-hit town with many struggling folks to begin with that was hit several years ago with waves of black Somali Muslims who have zero English, zero skills and zero money. Check with the officials there... they are indeed all on welfare, and driving the town's social services to ruin.

My "point" is that the individuals and groups who engineered their arrival here in America did so on grounds that

1) We as whites are bad people who are obligated to help black Africans no matter what

2) We are racists if we don't support the Africans with welfare

3) The Africans will "enrich" us with diversity by their presence

And so on. Well, I reject all of this. The black Somali Muslims SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN BROUGHT HERE TO BEGIN WITH. That's the beginning of my argument.

shattered
04-25-2007, 08:47 PM
I could go on at length about Muslims in the U.S. in general. But the Somali Muslims of Maine are the focus of the story that launched the thread. Many are located in Lewiston, Maine, a hard-hit town with many struggling folks to begin with that was hit several years ago with waves of black Somali Muslims who have zero English, zero skills and zero money. Check with the officials there... they are indeed all on welfare, and driving the town's social services to ruin.

My "point" is that the individuals and groups who engineered their arrival here in America did so on grounds that

1) We as whites are bad people who are obligated to help black Africans no matter what

2) We are racists if we don't support the Africans with welfare

3) The Africans will "enrich" us with diversity by their presence

And so on. Well, I reject all of this. The black Somali Muslims SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN BROUGHT HERE TO BEGIN WITH. That's the beginning of my argument.


I fail to see what that has to do with *children* who have no control over where they are in life as minors...

Hugh Lincoln
04-25-2007, 08:57 PM
I fail to see what that has to do with *children* who have no control over where they are in life as minors...

For God's sake, we could obliterate 90 percent of all policy debates with this line of reasoning. No, make that 100 percent. "How can we cut taxing and spending when... innocent children will be affected?" "How can we allow gun ownership when innocent children are being killed?" And so on. Rule by Rosie O'Donnell. Hell, probably even she has more sense than that!

Look, harass kids, bad in the abstract. I wouldn't advise it. But from a distance, it's a healthy reaction by American children to a very deep threat to their way of life by outsiders. Un-PC? You bet. Time for that these days? I think so. Did you notice that little 9/11 thing? What in the hell did that mean to you? Oh, right - it was 19 Swedish grandmothers who did that. God. Muslims mean to kill us. They seek the destruction of our very civilization. So if our juniors prank their juniors, I will not lose sleep over it.

shattered
04-25-2007, 08:59 PM
For God's sake, we could obliterate 90 percent of all policy debates with this line of reasoning. No, make that 100 percent. "How can we cut taxing and spending when... innocent children will be affected?" "How can we allow gun ownership when innocent children are being killed?" And so on. Rule by Rosie O'Donnell. Hell, probably even she has more sense than that!

I don't fall for any of that line of shit, and if you'd pay attention, you'd know that.

This is a totally different situation that has nothing to do with any of that tripe.

Jon
04-26-2007, 03:14 AM
So you're old man would bust you for giving a muzzy a hard time? Doubt it.

I've had my ass beat for less. ;)

glockmail
04-26-2007, 07:44 AM
I've had my ass beat for less. ;) So you know that type of reaction was uncalled for.

Jon
04-28-2007, 12:50 AM
So you know that type of reaction was uncalled for.


I know you're not that dense. That's absolutely *not* what I am saying.

Nuc
04-28-2007, 01:33 AM
One thing that's not being discussed in this debate is the obvious. Or maybe we're immune to the obviousness of this point:

The prohibition against pork is stupid.

diuretic
04-28-2007, 01:48 AM
Just remember..everyone complains about "kids these days" having no respect, no sense of responsibility, etc..

Well, guess who they're learning from? :)

Touche :lol:

diuretic
04-28-2007, 01:51 AM
Let's see if i understand this completely. An insensitive kid put ham on a table with muslims students, and the muslim students are saying if things keep up things will get violent, and the insensitive kid is the one who is committing crime and not the ones threatening violence???

I must have missed the bit in the report that says the Muslim kids say things are going to get violent - that's what I get for skimming I suppose. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't mind pointing out.

diuretic
04-28-2007, 01:53 AM
He went about it all wrong he needed to rub the ham in his hands and then walk around and shake hands with all the muslims. The old greasy handshake trick.

If he was my kid I would have to get on him about wasting a good piece of ham. Could have just as easily thrown a bag of porkrinds on the table.

:pee: muslims

You go Dad!!!!! :lol:

diuretic
04-28-2007, 01:55 AM
In today's information age? They couldn't help but be exposed to it if they simply just turn on the computer.

I, and most of my friends were politically aware in HS, and we only had the 6 o'clock news and newspaper.

Nice sig line there Gunny - it would be good if some of the folks here read it and understood what Burke really meant.

diuretic
04-28-2007, 01:57 AM
Oh i have no doubt there should have been some inter school discipline. but making it a criminal offense? When its being suggested that if the kid did it again there would be violence against him? The threat of violence is far worse than anything that kid did and those suggesting violence should be punished far more than the kid who merely disrespected his classmates.

I think if anyone was stupid enough to bring this to a court alleging a hate crime that the court would have a few words to say to the prosecutor an one just might be the old legal maxim of de minimis non curat lex - the law doesn't concern itself with trivialities (rough translation).

diuretic
04-28-2007, 01:59 AM
What a bullshit response. Making fun of diffenrent customs is part of American culture. The muzzies need to deal with that instead of trying to destroy our culture. I can't believe you could be an enabler. :poke:

Can I make fun of American culture or will that make you very upset?

diuretic
04-28-2007, 02:01 AM
Not looking the other way will teach the muzzies that playing the victim works. That's why Europe is about to become Euro-arabia. We red meat Americans won't stand for it. :pee:

:lol:

Nuc
04-28-2007, 02:03 AM
Can I make fun of American culture or will that make you very upset?

American culture is noble and dignified. Rush Limbaugh, Paris Hilton, Madonna, Oprah, 50 Cent, Jerry Springer, man how could you criticize that stuff?

diuretic
04-28-2007, 02:04 AM
One thing that's not being discussed in this debate is the obvious. Or maybe we're immune to the obviousness of this point:

The prohibition against pork is stupid.

Not if you're religious. But then religion is stupid so I suppose you're right in a way. Okay, the prohibition against pork is stupid because religion is stupid :lol:

Nuc
04-28-2007, 02:10 AM
Not if you're religious. But then religion is stupid so I suppose you're right in a way. Okay, the prohibition against pork is stupid because religion is stupid :lol:

I think it's stupid because differentiating MORALLY between animals on similar levels of the food chain is stupid. Either you eat mammals or you don't. I can understand vegetarianism because in fact it's quite a different thing than being an omnivore. But if you eat any mammal you should be willing to eat any other similarly evolved mammal. I could understand refusing to eat simians because they are almost human, but dogs, cows, lambs, rabbits, cats.........and pigs, what difference does it make?

avatar4321
04-28-2007, 05:36 AM
I think if anyone was stupid enough to bring this to a court alleging a hate crime that the court would have a few words to say to the prosecutor an one just might be the old legal maxim of de minimis non curat lex - the law doesn't concern itself with trivialities (rough translation).

You'd be surprised what stupid stuff gets brought before a court.

diuretic
04-28-2007, 11:13 AM
You'd be surprised what stupid stuff gets brought before a court.

I know what sometimes is tried on and why - and I know the courts (in my own area of course, can't speak for anywhere else) get quite cranky about it. And rightly so. Trivial stuff should be taken somewhere else. But then we - Australia - have enough tribunals that can deal with this sort of dispute. Since they exist they may as well work.

diuretic
04-28-2007, 11:20 AM
I think it's stupid because differentiating MORALLY between animals on similar levels of the food chain is stupid. Either you eat mammals or you don't. I can understand vegetarianism because in fact it's quite a different thing than being an omnivore. But if you eat any mammal you should be willing to eat any other similarly evolved mammal. I could understand refusing to eat simians because they are almost human, but dogs, cows, lambs, rabbits, cats.........and pigs, what difference does it make?

It USED to make sense. I think it's in Leviticus that the dietary constraints are laid out (Leviticus in the Old Testament of the Christian Bible, the OT being the Tanakh in Judaism - not meaning to offend any Jews with the OT reference) and they made sense if you were a nomadic community living in a desert. Pig meat is notoriously full of all kinds of nasty stuff so it makes perfect sense to avoid it, I mean you wouldn't want a highly contagious intenstinal disease to sweep through your camp somewhere in the desert. But hanging onto the old ways when they have no use value in contemporary times is silly.

Just a note - I'm not religious but I'll give anyone respect regarding their religious views so I am not canning anyone's religion here.

glockmail
04-29-2007, 08:05 PM
Can I make fun of American culture or will that make you very upset? It would make me happy.

Nuc
04-29-2007, 08:07 PM
It USED to make sense. I think it's in Leviticus that the dietary constraints are laid out (Leviticus in the Old Testament of the Christian Bible, the OT being the Tanakh in Judaism - not meaning to offend any Jews with the OT reference) and they made sense if you were a nomadic community living in a desert. Pig meat is notoriously full of all kinds of nasty stuff so it makes perfect sense to avoid it, I mean you wouldn't want a highly contagious intenstinal disease to sweep through your camp somewhere in the desert. But hanging onto the old ways when they have no use value in contemporary times is silly.

Just a note - I'm not religious but I'll give anyone respect regarding their religious views so I am not canning anyone's religion here.

Yes, but there are all kinds of food poisoning out there and they're all temporary. You don't make a religion about it. That's stupid.

glockmail
04-29-2007, 08:07 PM
.... religion is stupid ... That statement is stoopid.

glockmail
04-29-2007, 08:10 PM
... religion is stupid :lol:


.... I'm not religious but I'll give anyone respect regarding their religious views so I am not canning anyone's religion here.

Typical liberal hypocrisy. :laugh2:

diuretic
04-29-2007, 08:12 PM
That statement is stoopid.

Damn that's witty.

diuretic
04-29-2007, 08:15 PM
Typical liberal hypocrisy. :laugh2:

No it isn't - look up hypocrisy and you'll see why. If you want to accuse me of contradictory statements go ahead, it's more accurate than an accusation of hypocrisy. I can defend against logic, an illogical accusation is just rubbish to try to respond to.

Dilloduck
04-29-2007, 08:18 PM
No it isn't - look up hypocrisy and you'll see why. If you want to accuse me of contradictory statements go ahead, it's more accurate than an accusation of hypocrisy. I can defend against logic, an illogical accusation is just rubbish to try to respond to.


cool--"Typical liberal contradictory statements"---I think you get the point.

diuretic
04-29-2007, 08:30 PM
cool--"Typical liberal contradictory statements"---I think you get the point.

Okay what were my contradictions?

Dilloduck
04-29-2007, 08:38 PM
Okay what were my contradictions?

I would think calling religion "stupid" would contradict your claim that you are not "canning" anyones' religion but I'm sure you can do the Clintonian hair splitting.

glockmail
04-29-2007, 09:02 PM
No it isn't - look up hypocrisy and you'll see why. If you want to accuse me of contradictory statements go ahead, it's more accurate than an accusation of hypocrisy. I can defend against logic, an illogical accusation is just rubbish to try to respond to.

OK then: you're stupid, but I say that respectfully. :rolleyes:

diuretic
04-29-2007, 09:58 PM
OK then: you're stupid, but I say that respectfully. :rolleyes:

I now feel, as Denis Healey once said, as if I've been mauled by a dead sheep.

diuretic
04-29-2007, 10:03 PM
I would think calling religion "stupid" would contradict your claim that you are not "canning" anyones' religion but I'm sure you can do the Clintonian hair splitting.

Hair splitting? Aw don't be like that, I hate bad losers.

Religion is stupid. It's built on supersitition and fear. It is mythology.

Having said I would never deface a Koran, applaud an artist for sticking a Crucifix in a bottle of urine ("Piss Christ"), chuck pig's blood on the door of a Synagogue, point my toes at a statue of the Buddha - and so on.

There is no contradiction. It is possible for fully functioning adults to discuss more than one aspect of a topic and to have various views which can be clearly expressed.

Dilloduck
04-29-2007, 10:31 PM
Hair splitting? Aw don't be like that, I hate bad losers.

Religion is stupid. It's built on supersitition and fear. It is mythology.

Having said I would never deface a Koran, applaud an artist for sticking a Crucifix in a bottle of urine ("Piss Christ"), chuck pig's blood on the door of a Synagogue, point my toes at a statue of the Buddha - and so on.

There is no contradiction. It is possible for fully functioning adults to discuss more than one aspect of a topic and to have various views which can be clearly expressed.

Why not---could it be that it would be "canning"? :laugh2:

diuretic
04-30-2007, 02:22 AM
Why not---could it be that it would be "canning"? :laugh2:

Jeez that would be "canning" eh? It's like here every now and again some lamebrain bastard paints a swastika on a synagogue (we have a small Jewish population here) or in a Jewish graveyard. I watch it on the tv news and think, why do they do it?

Dilloduck
04-30-2007, 06:33 AM
Jeez that would be "canning" eh? It's like here every now and again some lamebrain bastard paints a swastika on a synagogue (we have a small Jewish population here) or in a Jewish graveyard. I watch it on the tv news and think, why do they do it?

I'm still trying to figure out why someone would call religion "stupid" on a board where there are many people with religious convictions.

diuretic
04-30-2007, 06:35 AM
I'm still trying to figure out why someone would call religion "stupid" on a board where there are many people with religious convictions.

There's only one way to find out and that's ask. Any other activity is just useless speculation.

Dilloduck
04-30-2007, 06:43 AM
There's only one way to find out and that's ask. Any other activity is just useless speculation.

Let me rephrase that then for ya. How is that you can call religion "stupid" an at the same time say you wouldn't do anything to defame the religion itself. By blanketly insulting all of them you have already done so.

diuretic
04-30-2007, 06:58 AM
Let me rephrase that then for ya. How is that you can call religion "stupid" an at the same time say you wouldn't do anything to defame the religion itself. By blanketly insulting all of them you have already done so.

Fair question.

In my opinion the idea of religion is stupid. As I mentioned before, I believe it's simply mythology and superstition. I didn't say that people who are religious are stupid. If someone wants to draw that concusion then they're entitled to but it's their conclusion. I would immediately reject that contention were it aimed at me. I am constantly amazed at the number of intelligent people who are religious. So, believing in religion, in my mind, doesn't make someone stupid. They have their reasons for believing. I'm not attacking them for believing.

At the same time I find the idea of insulting or demonising a religion to be offensive. I've read posts here (and elsewhere) by people who call themselves Christians insulting other religions, right now Islam is in the sights. I don't know much about Islam, I know a little more in general terms about Christianity because I was baptised and raised Catholic. I know about Christianity through a process of osmosis I suppose. I admire Judaism, it's a religion that has intelligence, it's less dogmatic than, say Catholicism. I don't want to be affected by any religion but I won't attack someone - even metaphorically - for believing in their religion. That doesn't mean I won't get into disputation. For example, people who put religion up against science to explain things will always get an argument from me. But again I'm not attacking them or their religion, I'm attacking their ideas - and hopefully it can be done in a civil manner.

Dilloduck
04-30-2007, 07:12 AM
Fair question.

In my opinion the idea of religion is stupid. As I mentioned before, I believe it's simply mythology and superstition. I didn't say that people who are religious are stupid. If someone wants to draw that concusion then they're entitled to but it's their conclusion. I would immediately reject that contention were it aimed at me. I am constantly amazed at the number of intelligent people who are religious. So, believing in religion, in my mind, doesn't make someone stupid. They have their reasons for believing. I'm not attacking them for believing.

At the same time I find the idea of insulting or demonising a religion to be offensive. I've read posts here (and elsewhere) by people who call themselves Christians insulting other religions, right now Islam is in the sights. I don't know much about Islam, I know a little more in general terms about Christianity because I was baptised and raised Catholic. I know about Christianity through a process of osmosis I suppose. I admire Judaism, it's a religion that has intelligence, it's less dogmatic than, say Catholicism. I don't want to be affected by any religion but I won't attack someone - even metaphorically - for believing in their religion. That doesn't mean I won't get into disputation. For example, people who put religion up against science to explain things will always get an argument from me. But again I'm not attacking them or their religion, I'm attacking their ideas - and hopefully it can be done in a civil manner.

Oh I get. Religion is stupid but adherents are not. That logic is right up there with supporting the troops but telling them that they don't stand a chance of succeeding in their mission which you also think is stupid.

diuretic
04-30-2007, 08:03 AM
Oh I get. Religion is stupid but adherents are not. That logic is right up there with supporting the troops but telling them that they don't stand a chance of succeeding in their mission which you also think is stupid.

No. You misunderstood me, you don't get it at all. Go back and read it again. I clearly made my point. Now your attempt at a comeback is ridiculous because there's no comparison between what I explained to you and the attempt you made to have a go back at me. My logic and yours are completely at odds with one another. At least I can explain myself clearly, you seem to have a problem with that. Your comprehension skills are also apparently deficient. Now stop that whining noise, it had to be said.

I think you're trying to accuse me of contradicting myself by holding two opposing views of the same subject. Is that right? If so you are wrong.

Demonstrably I have a view about religion in general as being based on myth and superstititon, a basis I believe to be irrational, stupid. Now, by all means disagree with me but don't try and be smart with me. I have a view that I won't attack a person for practising a religion even though I believe the practise of religion is irrational. Are you still with me?

Now as for the support the troops thing. That's a common misconception also. Firstly, you need to define what's meant by "support the troops". You probably think it means feeding them into a meat-grinder in a failed mission. That's not supporting the troops, that's pissing on their graves.

Are you keeping a body-count? Does it feel good to "support the troops" by urging them to keep being fed into the meat-grinder? Does it?

Does it make you feel brave that you can shout "I support the troops" as they are blown up and shot?

Do you have a big patriotic sticker on your car that says "Support the Troops"?

Do you think Bush is doing a wonderful job by chanting "stay the course" and "no cut and run" while he feeds men and women in uniform into the meat-grinder of Iraq? Do you?

Do you care that injured troops are coming back to sub-standard health care? Do you care that they are broken in body and spirit and aren't being looked after? If you cared, if you supported the troops you'd get your arse to a VA Hospital and support the troops in a material way.

But I wager you won't. You strike me as being one of the Chickenhawk Chorus.

Wasting their lives is not supporting the troops. Getting them out of that hell-hole with its relentless meat-grinder is supporting the troops. Your problem is your slavish adherence to your party and your leader. That is a psychopathology that I can never have and you're welcome to it.

Dilloduck
04-30-2007, 09:00 AM
No. You misunderstood me, you don't get it at all. Go back and read it again. I clearly made my point. Now your attempt at a comeback is ridiculous because there's no comparison between what I explained to you and the attempt you made to have a go back at me. My logic and yours are completely at odds with one another. At least I can explain myself clearly, you seem to have a problem with that. Your comprehension skills are also apparently deficient. Now stop that whining noise, it had to be said.

I think you're trying to accuse me of contradicting myself by holding two opposing views of the same subject. Is that right? If so you are wrong.

Demonstrably I have a view about religion in general as being based on myth and superstititon, a basis I believe to be irrational, stupid. Now, by all means disagree with me but don't try and be smart with me. I have a view that I won't attack a person for practising a religion even though I believe the practise of religion is irrational. Are you still with me?

Now as for the support the troops thing. That's a common misconception also. Firstly, you need to define what's meant by "support the troops". You probably think it means feeding them into a meat-grinder in a failed mission. That's not supporting the troops, that's pissing on their graves.

Are you keeping a body-count? Does it feel good to "support the troops" by urging them to keep being fed into the meat-grinder? Does it?

Does it make you feel brave that you can shout "I support the troops" as they are blown up and shot?

Do you have a big patriotic sticker on your car that says "Support the Troops"?

Do you think Bush is doing a wonderful job by chanting "stay the course" and "no cut and run" while he feeds men and women in uniform into the meat-grinder of Iraq? Do you?

Do you care that injured troops are coming back to sub-standard health care? Do you care that they are broken in body and spirit and aren't being looked after? If you cared, if you supported the troops you'd get your arse to a VA Hospital and support the troops in a material way.

But I wager you won't. You strike me as being one of the Chickenhawk Chorus.

Wasting their lives is not supporting the troops. Getting them out of that hell-hole with its relentless meat-grinder is supporting the troops. Your problem is your slavish adherence to your party and your leader. That is a psychopathology that I can never have and you're welcome to it.

Now I get it-----you think religion is stupid but if someone practices it you are nice enough to allow them do this stupid thing with out telling them that they are doing something stupid. How big of you !

shattered
04-30-2007, 09:09 AM
Now I get it-----you think religion is stupid but if someone practices it you are nice enough to allow them do this stupid thing with out telling them that they are doing something stupid. How big of you !

That's actually called "tolerance" of those around you.. I'm sure you think there are things your neighbors do that are totally, and completely stupid, but you don't jump in their faces about it, right?

I may have the same views on religion that he has.. I think it's silly, but I'm not about to begrudge someone their right to practice it.. I'm not going to insist any landmarks, signs of their faith, etc. be torn down, but inside I may think they're silly.

Live & let live, unless someone tries to harm you.. Then kick their ass, and go back to living.

diuretic
04-30-2007, 02:49 PM
Now I get it-----you think religion is stupid but if someone practices it you are nice enough to allow them do this stupid thing with out telling them that they are doing something stupid. How big of you !

No I didn't say that. You give me far too much influence. I said that I wouldn't criticise someone for being religious. Now you either have a serious problem with comprehending the written word or you are deliberately twisting my comments and ideas and constructing a straw man argument. That's intellectually dishonest.

Hagbard Celine
04-30-2007, 03:19 PM
Now I get it-----you think religion is stupid but if someone practices it you are nice enough to allow them do this stupid thing with out telling them that they are doing something stupid. How big of you !

That's what I do. :dunno: What's wrong with that? Why does that make me "big?" I mean I know I'm pretty big, well, above average at least (that's what my girlfriend says anyway), but I don't know what religion has to do with it. Geez. :cuckoo:

glockmail
04-30-2007, 04:09 PM
I now feel, as Denis Healey once said, as if I've been mauled by a dead sheep.
... dropped off a speeding truck by glockster. :laugh2:

diuretic
04-30-2007, 05:00 PM
... dropped off a speeding truck by glockster. :laugh2:

Did you manage to find Healy's quote? Isn't it a hoot?

glockmail
04-30-2007, 07:52 PM
Didn't bother.

SassyLady
04-30-2007, 09:30 PM
I only read the first post and I have decided to start myself a pig farm. :cheers2:

Gonna surround myself on all sides with as much pork as possible!:coffee:

Think I'll start wearing "pig's ears" for a necklace. :laugh2:

Think I'll start dressing up like Miss Piggy!!!

Anyone else wanna join my pro-pig/pork crusade?

Gaffer
05-01-2007, 07:14 PM
I only read the first post and I have decided to start myself a pig farm. :cheers2:

Gonna surround myself on all sides with as much pork as possible!:coffee:

Think I'll start wearing "pig's ears" for a necklace. :laugh2:

Think I'll start dressing up like Miss Piggy!!!

Anyone else wanna join my pro-pig/pork crusade?

I'm with ya. Need to start looking for a pet pig. And a few more for eatin.

Chessplayer
05-01-2007, 08:06 PM
There's a joke President Reagan told about the way collectivist politicians treat rich people: A traveling salesman stays overnight with a farm family. When the family gathers to eat there's a pig seated at the table. And the pig has three medals hanging around his neck and a peg leg. The salesman says, "Um, I see you have a pig having dinner with you."

"Yes," says the farmer. "That's because he's a very special pig. You see those medals around his neck? Well, the first medal is from when our youngest son fell in the pond, and he was drowning, and that pig swam out and saved his life. The second medal, that's from when the barn caught fire and our little daughter was trapped in there and the pig ran inside, carried her out and saved her life. And the third medal, that's from when our oldest boy was cornered in the stock yard by a mean bull, and that pig ran under the fence and bit the bull on the tail and saved the boy's life."

"Yes," says the salesman, "I can see why you let that pig sit right at the table and have dinner with you. And I can see why you awarded him the medals. But how did he get the peg leg?"

"Well," says, the farmer, "a pig like that--you don't eat him all at once."