Who's responsible for Socialized Medicine passing? Answer: REPUBLICANS

[Little-Acorn]

When we elected an extreme-left Democrat President, with extremist Democrats in charge of large majorities in the House and Senate, that was the ball game. Major legislation to sieze unheard-of power, against both the Constitution and the will of the American people, would follow that act, as surely as water flows downhill.

And why did we elect such extreme leftists to such high positions in 2006 and 2008? Because Republicans, who came to power on the strength or an agenda the majority of Americans wanted - low taxes, low spending, strong defense, personal freedom and personal responsibillity - have been giving up those very ideals for twenty years, and acting more and more like Democrats themselves. They have exploded spending, created socialistic government entitlements, racked up huge debts, and passed and signed legislation robbing freedoms from Americans. Not nearly as much as the present administration, but far more than the people who voted for them, ever wanted.

And the America people, particularly the conservatives they had betrayed, reacted by kicking them out of power in 2006 and 2008.

Some might assign blame to the Democrats, who have been pushing so hard for expanding government and installing socialism since most of us have been alive. But that's like blaming a tiger for raking a man's face off with its claws in the middle of the street in town. The Democrats can't help pushing socialism any more than the tiger can help carving a man to ribbons - it is simply their nature to do so, and the only thing they know. Blame should be assigned, instead, to the people let the tiger into the village when they knew its nature and should have known better than to become careless enough to let it in.

Republicans' duties while in power, were to do what their voters sent them there to do. And that was to be conservative, allow the economy to reward those who achieved, defend their basic rights, and in general justify the tust the voters had placed in them. Doing this would ensure, not only their continued residence in power, but their continued defense of the country and the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

They failed. They began to abuse the rights of the people, by implementing (or permitting) schemes that harmed the rights, prosperity, and safety of ordinary Americans. They should have known voters would react predictably - a reaction made more than predictable, by the declining percentage of people who voted for them in nearly every election since they were put in power in 1994 and 2000. But they continued sliding more and more to the left, and failing to defend against domestic planners who had put in place a scheme that wound up crashing the entire economy in 2007-2009. And so the American people who had voted for them, expressed their disgust and booted them out... which was no more than they deserved. This eliminated the only people who had defended the Constitution from its enemies, and left the barbarians free to enter Rome.

And enter they have. We are now seeing power being seized by the U.S. Government in ways the Republicans never dreamed, and which the country's founders DID dream and wrote an ironclad Constitution to forbid. They are brushing aside its bans on government involvement in Health Care Insurance and its refusals to grant the Fed govt authority to force people to buy products, or penalize them without criminal charges or trials if they refused.

Tonight Barack Obama stated flatly that the just-passed legislation didn't fix every ill in Health Care - as if anything could do that in a world of imperfect people... and that therefore tonight's huge seizure of power was only "a good first step in the right direction". In other words, these people have plenty more such "steps" they intend to impose... and with as much disdain for the will of the people and the commands of the Constitution, as they showed this time.

But as I said above, ultimate blame does not even lie with Obama, Pelosi, Ried, and the rest of the leftists. We, the American people, knew what they were long before we elected them. Republicans in particular, had (or should have had) no illusions about the tyranny inherent in those people's agenda.

And for many years, Republicans were in a position to stop them and expose them for what they were... and they failed.

REPUBLICANS - politicians and voters - were as much as fault for the shocking power grabs and incredible debts we are seeing today, as the Democrats who are actually implementing those destructive policies. No one expects the Democrats to "know better", any more than they expect lemmings to "know better" than to drown themselves en masse.

But the people who let the tiger into the village, or the barbarians into the gates, SHOULD have known better than to do those things.

They are the ones truly at fault. And there is an (R) after every one of their names.

[Gaffer]

It's time for the million man armed march on washington

[Nukeman]

vote all incumbents out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[revelarts]

LilArcorn your right. Republicans have dropped the ball and caved to the moneyed powers of Wall Street and Mega Corps and Not to the people or "free" markets" and definitely not the constitution. The democrats Love big Gov and are blind to the problems with it. But even they have been tricked, bamboozled , hookwinked into thinking that this Health care bill was for "the people". A few know better but only an unheard minority know it and voted against it. Kucinich knows better but he was pushed or bribed into as well. this is an insurance/hmo/pharma bill that will help create a Health Industrial Complex to rival the Military one that is overfeeding on the wealth of the people.

Both parties are bought and sold by special interest, Nuke is right KICK them ALL OUT!

[OldMercsRule]

When we elected an extreme-left Democrat President, with extremist Democrats in charge of large majorities in the House and Senate, that was the ball game. Major legislation to sieze unheard-of power, against both the Constitution and the will of the American people, would follow that act, as surely as water flows downhill.

And why did we elect such extreme leftists to such high positions in 2006 and 2008? Because Republicans, who came to power on the strength or an agenda the majority of Americans wanted - low taxes, low spending, strong defense, personal freedom and personal responsibillity - have been giving up those very ideals for twenty years, and acting more and more like Democrats themselves. They have exploded spending, created socialistic government entitlements, racked up huge debts, and passed and signed legislation robbing freedoms from Americans. Not nearly as much as the present administration, but far more than the people who voted for them, ever wanted.

And the America people, particularly the conservatives they had betrayed, reacted by kicking them out of power in 2006 and 2008.

Some might assign blame to the Democrats, who have been pushing so hard for expanding government and installing socialism since most of us have been alive. But that's like blaming a tiger for raking a man's face off with its claws in the middle of the street in town. The Democrats can't help pushing socialism any more than the tiger can help carving a man to ribbons - it is simply their nature to do so, and the only thing they know. Blame should be assigned, instead, to the people let the tiger into the village when they knew its nature and should have known better than to become careless enough to let it in.

Republicans' duties while in power, were to do what their voters sent them there to do. And that was to be conservative, allow the economy to reward those who achieved, defend their basic rights, and in general justify the tust the voters had placed in them. Doing this would ensure, not only their continued residence in power, but their continued defense of the country and the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

They failed. They began to abuse the rights of the people, by implementing (or permitting) schemes that harmed the rights, prosperity, and safety of ordinary Americans. They should have known voters would react predictably - a reaction made more than predictable, by the declining percentage of people who voted for them in nearly every election since they were put in power in 1994 and 2000. But they continued sliding more and more to the left, and failing to defend against domestic planners who had put in place a scheme that wound up crashing the entire economy in 2007-2009. And so the American people who had voted for them, expressed their disgust and booted them out... which was no more than they deserved. This eliminated the only people who had defended the Constitution from its enemies, and left the barbarians free to enter Rome.

And enter they have. We are now seeing power being seized by the U.S. Government in ways the Republicans never dreamed, and which the country's founders DID dream and wrote an ironclad Constitution to forbid. They are brushing aside its bans on government involvement in Health Care Insurance and its refusals to grant the Fed govt authority to force people to buy products, or penalize them without criminal charges or trials if they refused.

Tonight Barack Obama stated flatly that the just-passed legislation didn't fix every ill in Health Care - as if anything could do that in a world of imperfect people... and that therefore tonight's huge seizure of power was only "a good first step in the right direction". In other words, these people have plenty more such "steps" they intend to impose... and with as much disdain for the will of the people and the commands of the Constitution, as they showed this time.

But as I said above, ultimate blame does not even lie with Obama, Pelosi, Ried, and the rest of the leftists. We, the American people, knew what they were long before we elected them. Republicans in particular, had (or should have had) no illusions about the tyranny inherent in those people's agenda.

And for many years, Republicans were in a position to stop them and expose them for what they were... and they failed.

REPUBLICANS - politicians and voters - were as much as fault for the shocking power grabs and incredible debts we are seeing today, as the Democrats who are actually implementing those destructive policies. No one expects the Democrats to "know better", any more than they expect lemmings to "know better" than to drown themselves en masse.

But the people who let the tiger into the village, or the barbarians into the gates, SHOULD have known better than to do those things.

They are the ones truly at fault. And there is an (R) after every one of their names.

The 2000-2006 Republicans in Congress were very bad as big spenders and very corrupt, very different then the 1994 crew was.

Fact is the fault is the American people who elected a majority of hard Left dim wit Democrats in 2006 and 2008, and have elected more and more Liberal pols who grow Gubment in both parties since 1932.

We obviously have to break the system and create a real crisis to Learn how bad ignoring the Cornstitution, (tenth amendment), really is. A severe spanking is in order. JR

[namvet]

gotta hand it to Pelosi. she kept them trapped in DC till it passed. she knew if they go back home their constituents would talk them into a no vote.

[revelarts]

Washington Post

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/economy-watch/2010/03/economicbusiness_winners_and_l.html


Health-care legislation's economic/business winners and losers

My colleague Chris Cillizza over at The Fix has done a good job listing the political winners and losers from last night's House passage of the new health-care legislation, which you can see by clicking here.

Let's take a look at the economic and business-sector winners and losers.

WINNERS:

# The health insurance companies: It's pretty funny that President Obama spent much of the debate over health-care legislation beating up on health insurance companies and is now poised to sign a bill that drops a big Christmas present on their doorstep. If there are 30 million Americans without health insurance, and the new bill says they're going to get health insurance, where will they get that health insurance? That's right -- health insurance companies.

# The stock markets (so far): Wall Street has shrugged off the anticipated hangover of health-care legislation to stage a mild rally today. Some worried that the markets would dive because of a new and massive government intervention into the private sector, which the health-care legislation represents. But markets appear to be treating this legislation as the basest possible news: a shift of money into the health-care sector. The markets evidently don't care, at least initially, that the new money flowing into the health-care sector comes from taxpayers or business-paid fines. They just care that 30 million new customers into the insurance and health-care systems could mean more revenue for those businesses.

"That means more sales for Pfizer Inc., the world’s largest drugmaker; UnitedHealth Group Inc., the largest health insurer; and a cluster of companies led by Amerigroup Corp. that specialize in managing services through Medicaid, a program that will grow in the remake," BusinessWeek writes.

# Hospitals: “The deal is basically being made to reduce the cuts they would get from the federal government with corresponding increases they’d get from [greater] coverage,” says Jason DeSena Trennert, managing partner at Strategas Research Partners, quoted here on SmartMoney. It's like this: Everyone has to go to the hospital, even people without insurance. When they get treated, hospitals don't make money. When they get insurance and get treated, hospitals make money. But here's a potential downside for hospitals: Under the new legislation, Medicare reimbursement will be trimmed.

# Big Pharma: Again, more insured people will buy more drugs, making pharmaceutical companies' profits grow and their stock go up. Perhaps the added money into the system will spur innovation at smaller pharma companies.




http://rawstory.com/2009/2009/12/ratigan-berates-wasserman-schultz/

MSNBC's Dylan Ratigan shouted down Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL) after she couldn't answer why insurance stocks have increased since major reforms have been stripped from health care legislation.

The health care reform bill "does very little to bring real choice and competition to the insurance market place," explained Ratigan. "It does very little to reform the insurance monopolies. It does very little to create more choices for everybody in America for their health care but at the same time it mandates that everybody in America face penalties if they don't buy health care."

"The result of that has been the following," continued Ratigan. "You know the monopoly scenario. I want you to take a look at the insurance stocks in this country on news of the creation of millions of new customers but the bill doesn't reform the monopoly structure."


Democrats Republicans =tools

cui bono

[avatar4321]

Let's stop blaming others. We messed up. We dropped the ball. We let our guard down.

We screwed up. The politicians just reflect the people in society.

[OldMercsRule]

Let's stop blaming others. We messed up. We dropped the ball. We let our guard down.

We screwed up. The politicians just reflect the people in society.

Very true. Good post. JR

[revelarts]

Insurance, big pharma, company execs, are part of our society and they have very little party allegiance. but they do have deep pockets to hire people to wake up at the door step of the democratics and republicans 365 days a year and are writing the legislation to put into the hand of said "representatives.".

You guys aren't saying that the uber rich do not have more entree and influence of our politicians than any 5000, 10,000 or ??? of us?

am i just talking crazy?

Are you saying that it's purely an ideological or partisan battle and money has no influence. The founders warned of the moneyed powers gaining to much power with the congress and usurping the will of the people, seems like the wisdom of the founders comes through again to me.

Sure we can make a difference but not by believing parties that consistently lie to us, and throw us a bone now and then. to keep us quiet and voting.

[CSM]

Plenty of blame to go around, I think. We can blame speial interest groups, big money and corrupt politicians (which means ALL politicians currently in power) but ultimately, the majority of the blame lies with voters. It is the voter that puts unprincipled politicians in power, tolerates those politician's unethical, amoral, and even illegal actions, and then re-elects those same politicians for multiple terms.

The American voter has become lazy, uninformed and shallow. Civic duty has become another mythical entity (much like "duty, honor, loyalty" and a host of other words) at which most voters will nod their heads but really have no idea what it means. Young voters think they are choosing the next "reality show" winner, middle aged voters are too apathetic to care and older voters are not only jaded but too reminiscent of past party planks to realize that those planks are long gone. The parties of today look nothing like the political parties of decades ago; especially the parties as they were right after WWII.

Then there are the US citizens eligible to vote and don't. You hear and see a lot in the media about the "party base" and the "undecided vote" but you won't hear a word about the "non voter". The people of Iraq as a whole have more courage and commitment than the typical US citizen eligible to vote. Citizens who are eligible to vote but do not are as complicit as anyone else you care to blame.

All that being said, until the voter decides that enough is enough and starts demanding that the elected representatives will "represent the people" instead of "decide what's good for the people" nothing will change except the brand of extremism foisted on the population. The American voter has to have and enforce ethics, morality and a respect for justice and law and demand that those serving in government do as well. The American citizen has to reaffirm that individual freedoms are the foundation of this country, that States have rights that cannot be superseded by the Federal Government and that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and should be treated as such.

The voter has to become the ones with common sense, have the best interests of the country at heart and be willing to compromise with their fellow voters. We already know that the politicians we have in ower now will do none of these things. They are so out of touch with the average voter that "common sense" is alien to them. They have no other interest than that of power (getting it and keeping it) at any price. Rather than compromise, our politicians are more interested in leveraging issues that divide us to create more "victims" who will vote to keep them in power. Many will even create divisive issues to that end!

I guess this thread touched a nerve. If you managed to wade through this little tirade, give it some thought.

[Gaffer]

Gotta spread the rep CSM. Good points.

[OldMercsRule]

Plenty of blame to go around, I think. We can blame speial interest groups, big money and corrupt politicians (which means ALL politicians currently in power) but ultimately, the majority of the blame lies with voters. It is the voter that puts unprincipled politicians in power, tolerates those politician's unethical, amoral, and even illegal actions, and then re-elects those same politicians for multiple terms.

The American voter has become lazy, uninformed and shallow. Civic duty has become another mythical entity (much like "duty, honor, loyalty" and a host of other words) at which most voters will nod their heads but really have no idea what it means. Young voters think they are choosing the next "reality show" winner, middle aged voters are too apathetic to care and older voters are not only jaded but too reminiscent of past party planks to realize that those planks are long gone. The parties of today look nothing like the political parties of decades ago; especially the parties as they were right after WWII.

Then there are the US citizens eligible to vote and don't. You hear and see a lot in the media about the "party base" and the "undecided vote" but you won't hear a word about the "non voter". The people of Iraq as a whole have more courage and commitment than the typical US citizen eligible to vote. Citizens who are eligible to vote but do not are as complicit as anyone else you care to blame.

All that being said, until the voter decides that enough is enough and starts demanding that the elected representatives will "represent the people" instead of "decide what's good for the people" nothing will change except the brand of extremism foisted on the population. The American voter has to have and enforce ethics, morality and a respect for justice and law and demand that those serving in government do as well. The American citizen has to reaffirm that individual freedoms are the foundation of this country, that States have rights that cannot be superseded by the Federal Government and that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and should be treated as such.

The voter has to become the ones with common sense, have the best interests of the country at heart and be willing to compromise with their fellow voters. We already know that the politicians we have in ower now will do none of these things. They are so out of touch with the average voter that "common sense" is alien to them. They have no other interest than that of power (getting it and keeping it) at any price. Rather than compromise, our politicians are more interested in leveraging issues that divide us to create more "victims" who will vote to keep them in power. Many will even create divisive issues to that end!

I guess this thread touched a nerve. If you managed to wade through this little tirade, give it some thought.

:thumb:

[namvet]

Plenty of blame to go around, I think. We can blame speial interest groups, big money and corrupt politicians (which means ALL politicians currently in power) but ultimately, the majority of the blame lies with voters. It is the voter that puts unprincipled politicians in power, tolerates those politician's unethical, amoral, and even illegal actions, and then re-elects those same politicians for multiple terms.

The American voter has become lazy, uninformed and shallow. Civic duty has become another mythical entity (much like "duty, honor, loyalty" and a host of other words) at which most voters will nod their heads but really have no idea what it means. Young voters think they are choosing the next "reality show" winner, middle aged voters are too apathetic to care and older voters are not only jaded but too reminiscent of past party planks to realize that those planks are long gone. The parties of today look nothing like the political parties of decades ago; especially the parties as they were right after WWII.

Then there are the US citizens eligible to vote and don't. You hear and see a lot in the media about the "party base" and the "undecided vote" but you won't hear a word about the "non voter". The people of Iraq as a whole have more courage and commitment than the typical US citizen eligible to vote. Citizens who are eligible to vote but do not are as complicit as anyone else you care to blame.

All that being said, until the voter decides that enough is enough and starts demanding that the elected representatives will "represent the people" instead of "decide what's good for the people" nothing will change except the brand of extremism foisted on the population. The American voter has to have and enforce ethics, morality and a respect for justice and law and demand that those serving in government do as well. The American citizen has to reaffirm that individual freedoms are the foundation of this country, that States have rights that cannot be superseded by the Federal Government and that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and should be treated as such.

The voter has to become the ones with common sense, have the best interests of the country at heart and be willing to compromise with their fellow voters. We already know that the politicians we have in ower now will do none of these things. They are so out of touch with the average voter that "common sense" is alien to them. They have no other interest than that of power (getting it and keeping it) at any price. Rather than compromise, our politicians are more interested in leveraging issues that divide us to create more "victims" who will vote to keep them in power. Many will even create divisive issues to that end!

I guess this thread touched a nerve. If you managed to wade through this little tirade, give it some thought.


http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh66/stylie77/couch_potato.gif

asleep at the wheel

[CSM]

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh66/stylie77/couch_potato.gif

asleep at the wheel

Now that looks like the "non-voter" type to me.

[namvet]

Now that looks like the "non-voter" type to me.

as long as his beer is cheap he's happy

[DragonStryk72]

Plenty of blame to go around, I think. We can blame speial interest groups, big money and corrupt politicians (which means ALL politicians currently in power) but ultimately, the majority of the blame lies with voters. It is the voter that puts unprincipled politicians in power, tolerates those politician's unethical, amoral, and even illegal actions, and then re-elects those same politicians for multiple terms.

The American voter has become lazy, uninformed and shallow. Civic duty has become another mythical entity (much like "duty, honor, loyalty" and a host of other words) at which most voters will nod their heads but really have no idea what it means. Young voters think they are choosing the next "reality show" winner, middle aged voters are too apathetic to care and older voters are not only jaded but too reminiscent of past party planks to realize that those planks are long gone. The parties of today look nothing like the political parties of decades ago; especially the parties as they were right after WWII.

Then there are the US citizens eligible to vote and don't. You hear and see a lot in the media about the "party base" and the "undecided vote" but you won't hear a word about the "non voter". The people of Iraq as a whole have more courage and commitment than the typical US citizen eligible to vote. Citizens who are eligible to vote but do not are as complicit as anyone else you care to blame.

All that being said, until the voter decides that enough is enough and starts demanding that the elected representatives will "represent the people" instead of "decide what's good for the people" nothing will change except the brand of extremism foisted on the population. The American voter has to have and enforce ethics, morality and a respect for justice and law and demand that those serving in government do as well. The American citizen has to reaffirm that individual freedoms are the foundation of this country, that States have rights that cannot be superseded by the Federal Government and that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and should be treated as such.

The voter has to become the ones with common sense, have the best interests of the country at heart and be willing to compromise with their fellow voters. We already know that the politicians we have in ower now will do none of these things. They are so out of touch with the average voter that "common sense" is alien to them. They have no other interest than that of power (getting it and keeping it) at any price. Rather than compromise, our politicians are more interested in leveraging issues that divide us to create more "victims" who will vote to keep them in power. Many will even create divisive issues to that end!

I guess this thread touched a nerve. If you managed to wade through this little tirade, give it some thought.

I think this is why Thomas Jefferson called for a revolution to occur every few generations in the United States. It is too easy for us to slip into this lazy, complacent mode.