Israel to expel Hamas politicians from Jerusalem

[chloe]

By BEN HUBBARD
Associated Press Writer

JERUSALEM (AP) - Israel's decision to expel four Hamas politicians from Jerusalem threatened to set off a new crisis over the disputed city and could hinder U.S. efforts to restart peace talks.

The expulsions of the three Palestinian lawmakers and a former Cabinet minister could start as early as Friday. Israel has not said where they would be sent, but the West Bank is a possible destination.

Israel revoked their Jerusalem residency rights in 2006 and arrested them because they belong to Hamas, the Islamic militant group that controls the Gaza Strip and has carried out scores of deadly attacks against Israelis. The expulsion orders were delayed because the men have been in prison until recently.

Israel has stripped thousands of Palestinians of their residency rights in east Jerusalem since capturing and annexing the area in the 1967 Mideast War. However, human rights activists said Israel has never before stripped Palestinians of Jerusalem residency because of their political affiliation.
"This is a very dangerous precedent," Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said. "We won't accept it. We won't allow it. We won't just overlook it." He said the Israeli government was creating "the biggest obstacles yet on the path to peace."

Jerusalem is holy to Muslims, Jews and Christians and the fate of Israeli-annexed eastern sector of the city has been the most explosive issue in two decades of on-and-off negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians. The Palestinians want east Jerusalem as a capital, while Israel says it won't relinquish any part of the city.

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=235&sid=4275991

[abso]

By BEN HUBBARD
Associated Press Writer

Jerusalem is holy to Muslims, Jews and Christians and the fate of Israeli-annexed eastern sector of the city has been the most explosive issue in two decades of on-and-off negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians. The Palestinians want east Jerusalem as a capital, while Israel says it won't relinquish any part of the city.


Israel refuses to leave 1967 occupied areas, so Hamas is not the reason that peace cant be reached, its israel that refuses to leave the 1967 occupied areas even if Hamas stopped fighting or not, its not about Hamas and those few rockets which they fire, its just about the land, they want the land and they wont leave it.



They consider the occupied areas as their land, while the whole world recognize them as an occupied territory, even USA know that and asked them to leave it, but they just never listen to anyone even their main protector which is USA, they dont care about UN or USA or Europian union , they keep talking about Hamas while forgetting that they are the ones who is occupying palestinian lands, but i dont see Hamas occupying any israelian lands.

[Gaffer]

hamas is a terrorist organization. Any member of that organization is a terrorist. These guys are terrorists and are getting expelled. They are lucky they are not being executed.Now they can go join their fellow pals launching a "few" rockets at Israel. I'm sure you would not mind if someone launched a "few" rockets at your community every day.

[abso]

hamas is a terrorist organization. Any member of that organization is a terrorist. These guys are terrorists and are getting expelled. They are lucky they are not being executed.Now they can go join their fellow pals launching a "few" rockets at Israel. I'm sure you would not mind if someone launched a "few" rockets at your community every day.


Of course i would mind, and i already said that i condemn launching rockets, but i also do admit that israel is occupying the palestinain lands and they refuse to leave.

when i admit that Hamas is wrong about firing rockets at israel, i am just being fair, but i wont be and you also wont be fair if you dont also admit that israel is wrong too about occupying the land.

you all fail to notice that this problem wont even exist if israel got out of all the occupied territories, Hizbollah was never created until 2 years after israel occupied lebanon, so Hizbollah which you hate now would have never existed in the first place if israel did not invade lebanon, and same for Hamas, if israel havent occupied their land at 1967 war, then they wont be firing rockets at it right now.

dont condemn only one side, you have to see both side of the problem, if you are trying to justify israel attacks, then you have to also know the justification of why Hamas is attacking israel.

Israel Attacks Hamas because they shoot rockets at them.
Hamas Attacks Israel becauce they occupy their land.

so there is actually a reason for both sides, dont just justify a side and condemn the other.

about me, I condemn BOTH
and i only see one path for achieving peace, israel must get out of all the occupied lands, then it shall live in peace, none wants to fight israel anymore, they just want their land back, if israel wants peace, then it should do what every single country in the world is asking it to do even USA, to get out of the occupied territories.

but as you see in the article, they refuse to get out of the occupied lands, they want to keep a land thats does not belong to them, so how can peace be achieved with them ?



you only condemn Hamas, but you never condemn israel for occupying the palestinain lands, so let me ask you a direct question.

do you feel that israel should leave the occupied areas or do you support them in keeping it ?

[Sweetchuck]

Of course i would mind, and i already said that i condemn launching rockets, but i also do admit that israel is occupying the palestinain lands and they refuse to leave.

you only condemn Hamas, but you never condemn israel for occupying the palestinain lands, so let me ask you a direct question.

do you feel that israel should leave the occupied areas or do you support them in keeping it ?

Israel is there weather you like it or not. The issue now is to broker a co-existence between the Jews and the Muslims.

Keep in mind, this conflict goes back thousands of years and isn't likely to cease even if Israel gave Palestine back to the Palestinians. That's the reality, it's like a bad Tom and Jerry cartoon that never ends.

Personally, I don't agree with Israels occupation of that land, how they got it or our strong support for them, but I do agree that Israel has a right to defend itself and if terrorists want to terrorize, I don't want to hear any whining when they get killed.

[abso]

Israel is there weather you like it or not. The issue now is to broker a co-existence between the Jews and the Muslims.

Keep in mind, this conflict goes back thousands of years and isn't likely to cease even if Israel gave Palestine back to the Palestinians. That's the reality, it's like a bad Tom and Jerry cartoon that never ends.

Personally, I don't agree with Israels occupation of that land, how they got it or our strong support for them, but I do agree that Israel has a right to defend itself and if terrorists want to terrorize, I don't want to hear any whining when they get killed.

Personally, I don't agree with Israels occupation of that land, how they got it or our strong support for them

Actually by saying that you dont agree with the way they got that land, and by saying that you agree that israel has the right to defend itself, so do you agree that the palestinians has the right to defend their land ?

and about the strong US support for them, i agree with you, i dont like it.

None asked israel to get out of the middle east, they have their land here, which is the 1967 borders, all the arabs agreed to that, we just want the land they inveded after 67, which we call, the occupied lands, but they just want more and they dont want to leave the occupied lands, so do you agree with their ambition for more land ?

[Sweetchuck]

Personally, I don't agree with Israels occupation of that land, how they got it or our strong support for them

Actually by saying that you dont agree with the way they got that land, and by saying that you agree that israel has the right to defend itself, so do you agree that the palestinians has the right to defend their land ?

and about the strong US support for them, i agree with you, i dont like it.

None asked israel to get out of the middle east, they have their land here, which is the 1967 borders, all the arabs agreed to that, we just want the land they inveded after 67, which we call, the occupied lands, but they just want more and they dont want to leave the occupied lands, so do you agree with their ambition for more land ?

It's a little more complicated than how you're boiling it down and asking for a generalized response. A lot more complicated actually and I don't know if a couple thousand pages of discussion would make the issue any more defined.

I'm saying Israel is there. Like it or not, they're there. If Palestine or it's supporters want a peaceful co-existence, they need to want it - if that makes any sense. I don't think they want it.

While I don't agree with the Jews and how they acquired their homeland, I do believe that ultimately they want peace. Muslims on the other hand, not so much. They won't be happy until every non-Muslim is wiped off of the face of the planet.

So I side with the Jews, but I don't love them by any stretch.

[Kathianne]

...
about me, I condemn BOTH
and i only see one path for achieving peace, israel must get out of all the occupied lands, then it shall live in peace, none wants to fight israel anymore, they just want their land back, if israel wants peace, then it should do what every single country in the world is asking it to do even USA, to get out of the occupied territories.

but as you see in the article, they refuse to get out of the occupied lands, they want to keep a land thats does not belong to them, so how can peace be achieved with them ?



you only condemn Hamas, but you never condemn israel for occupying the palestinain lands, so let me ask you a direct question.

do you feel that israel should leave the occupied areas or do you support them in keeping it ?

You state that Israel would have peace, if they left the lands gained after '67. Weeks ago I asked why they took those lands, you never answered. Why? Perhaps because of the loss of peace at that time and the constantly escalating threat thereafter?

There can be no peace, there should be no more giving up of land by the Israelis, until Hamas, Hizbollah, Iran agree that Israel has the right to exist.

[abso]

You state that Israel would have peace, if they left the lands gained after '67. Weeks ago I asked why they took those lands, you never answered. Why? Perhaps because of the loss of peace at that time and the constantly escalating threat thereafter?

There can be no peace, there should be no more giving up of land by the Israelis, until Hamas, Hizbollah, Iran agree that Israel has the right to exist.

i dont remember you asking this question, maybe because i did not notice it, anyway, the answer does not matter, i admit that there was provocations from the arabian side at that time, but thats not the issue now, for now, they must retreat from all the occupied lands.

the reason of the occupation does not matter.

if you occupied a land for any reason, does that mean you can keep it forever ???

they you are saying that USA should stay in afghanistan and iraq forever ?

you saying that the french should have stayed in algeria forever ?

the british should have stayed in egypt forever ?

every occupied land should have its freedom at the end, until then, the struggle will never end.

the palestinian people living today, are not the men who was there at 1967, they dont have any involvement in the problems between the arabian states at the time and israel, so its not israel's right to keep their land.

you cant say that israel want peace while they refuse to leave the occupied lands, how can that be peace ????

you dont know anything about muslims to say that we want to wipe out everyone from the earth, we never wanted that.

and again i say, religion does not have anything to do with what people wants, there is some jews who want to kill muslims, and some jews want to live peacefully with muslims, and there is some muslims who want to kill jews, and there is some muslims who want to live peacefully with jews, its not about religion, its about the person himself, if he is a good or a stupidly bad person.

[Kathianne]

i dont remember you asking this question, maybe because i did not notice it, anyway, the answer does not matter, i admit that there was provocations from the arabian side at that time, but thats not the issue now, for now, they must retreat from all the occupied lands. [quote] Why? If the Arabs had succeeded would you be arguing today that they should give back any gained lands to Israelis? I don't think so. [quote]

the reason of the occupation does not matter.

if you occupied a land for any reason, does that mean you can keep it forever ??? Sure it does. If not for the US arguing that land shouldn't be gained in war, that was the status quo and still is in most of the world.


they you are saying that USA should stay in afghanistan and iraq forever ?
Nope, from the outset the US said no to that. It was to rout whom the US considers terrorists. On the other hand, do you really see signs of US leaving? When?


you saying that the french should have stayed in algeria forever ?

the british should have stayed in egypt forever ?

every occupied land should have its freedom at the end, until then, the struggle will never end.

the palestinian people living today, are not the men who was there at 1967, they dont have any involvement in the problems between the arabian states at the time and israel, so its not israel's right to keep their land.

you cant say that israel want peace while they refuse to leave the occupied lands, how can that be peace ????

you dont know anything about muslims to say that we want to wipe out everyone from the earth, we never wanted that. I don't know about Muslims, I was addressing Hamas, which is what you brought up and their charter. Get real.


and again i say, religion does not have anything to do with what people wants, there is some jews who want to kill muslims, and some jews want to live peacefully with muslims, and there is some muslims who want to kill jews, and there is some muslims who want to live peacefully with jews, its not about religion, its about the person himself, if he is a good or a stupidly bad person.

Pffft, you are trying to equalize and it's not working.

[Gaffer]

do you feel that israel should leave the occupied areas or do you support them in keeping it ?

Yes I do. They already were occupying land taken after the war in 1948. The land they took in 67 was all strategically located so that attacks against Israel could be made easier.

hamas' charter calls for the complete destruction of Israel, not just the taking of some land. hizbollah is an off shoot of the muslim brotherhood, out of Egypt. They are now fully owned and controlled by iran. hamas is also supported by iran. As long as these groups and their supporting countries continue to call for the destruction of Israel and claim it has no right to exist then I will continue to support Israel. The only reason they want the pre 67 borders is because it puts their rockets closer to the heart of Israel.

[Kathianne]

Yes I do. They already were occupying land taken after the war in 1948. The land they took in 67 was all strategically located so that attacks against Israel could be made easier.

hamas' charter calls for the complete destruction of Israel, not just the taking of some land. hizbollah is an off shoot of the muslim brotherhood, out of Egypt. They are now fully owned and controlled by iran. hamas is also supported by iran. As long as these groups and their supporting countries continue to call for the destruction of Israel and claim it has no right to exist then I will continue to support Israel. The only reason they want the pre 67 borders is because it puts their rockets closer to the heart of Israel.

Excuse me for jumping in. The lands they 'took' were in actuality a response to being attacked by multi-national coalition, no? They gave back lots of land at the time, what they 'kept' were the weak spots in defense.

Those weak spots today may not carry as much strategic weight today, but lots of symbolic reasons, no?

If the 'weak areas' were not these plus others, i.e., Palestinians via Hamas said, "No more missiles, Israel exists, Palestine needs to too, all the issues would be resolved? No?

[Kathianne]

Yes I do. They already were occupying land taken after the war in 1948. The land they took in 67 was all strategically located so that attacks against Israel could be made easier.

hamas' charter calls for the complete destruction of Israel, not just the taking of some land. hizbollah is an off shoot of the muslim brotherhood, out of Egypt. They are now fully owned and controlled by iran. hamas is also supported by iran. As long as these groups and their supporting countries continue to call for the destruction of Israel and claim it has no right to exist then I will continue to support Israel. The only reason they want the pre 67 borders is because it puts their rockets closer to the heart of Israel.

Excuse me for jumping in. The lands they 'took' were in actuality a response to being attacked by multi-national coalition, no? They gave back lots of land at the time, what they 'kept' were the weak spots in defense.

Those weak spots today may not carry as much strategic weight today, but lots of symbolic reasons, no?

If the 'weak areas' were not these plus others, i.e., Palestinians via Hamas said, "No more missiles, Israel exists, Palestine needs to too," all the issues would be resolved? No?

[Gaffer]

Excuse me for jumping in. The lands they 'took' were in actuality a response to being attacked by multi-national coalition, no? They gave back lots of land at the time, what they 'kept' were the weak spots in defense.

Those weak spots today may not carry as much strategic weight today, but lots of symbolic reasons, no?

If the 'weak areas' were not these plus others, i.e., Palestinians via Hamas said, "No more missiles, Israel exists, Palestine needs to too," all the issues would be resolved? No?

Your right. But they won't do that, they have declined to do that in every negotiation that has gone on since carter was in office. The sole goal is to wipe out Israel.

[Kathianne]

Your right. But they won't do that, they have declined to do that in every negotiation that has gone on since carter was in office. The sole goal is to wipe out Israel.

Which is my point, the one Abso wants everyone to 'agree to by logic.' LOL! It's not only illogical, it's suicidal for the country. While I LOL, it's really the point, that is NOT funny. Hamas=destruction of Israel.

Abso=Hamas

He claims different, yet that is his logical conclusion. For some reason, he never answers my posts.

[Gaffer]

Which is my point, the one Abso wants everyone to 'agree to by logic.' LOL! It's not only illogical, it's suicidal for the country. While I LOL, it's really the point, that is NOT funny. Hamas=destruction of Israel.

Abso=Hamas

He claims different, yet that is his logical conclusion. For some reason, he never answers my posts.

Yep, and he's looking for support in his conclusion. Must be frustrating for him to not get it here. It's obvious from his words he supports hamas. It's not like he says, about land. It's about the eradication of Israel and the Jewish people. Land is there in plenty in the palistine territory. It just needs to be worked and built on.

[Kathianne]

Yep, and he's looking for support in his conclusion. Must be frustrating for him to not get it here. It's obvious from his words he supports hamas. It's not like he says, about land. It's about the eradication of Israel and the Jewish people. Land is there in plenty in the palistine territory. It just needs to be worked and built on.

Indeed. Over and over again, thread after thread, I've responded but he fails to react.
Why? Doesn't fit his agenda.

While claiming to be neutral, it's obvious his opinion is with Hamas and the destruction of Israel.

For some reason I think he'd disagree, saying Israel never exited. :cheers2:

[abso]

Indeed. Over and over again, thread after thread, I've responded but he fails to react.
Why? Doesn't fit his agenda.

While claiming to be neutral, it's obvious his opinion is with Hamas and the destruction of Israel.

For some reason I think he'd disagree, saying Israel never exited. :cheers2:

i will be replying to all your posts soon, but you dont expect me to be online 24/7, i do have a real life away from debating.

[Kathianne]

I don't expect anyone to be on 24/7, I'm a good example of that. In this case though, serious *chirping*.