The Death of the United States of America [Archive] - Debate Policy

HogTrash

08-19-2010, 07:46 PM

The United States draws near it's end and with it the hopes and dreams of the human race.

As the nation that set the standards for prosperity and human rights approaches it's final days, so follows the world.

It's story will be erased from the history books and our grandchildren will never hear the names of our founding fathers or the words, "of the people-for the people-by the people".

'God' will be silenced and slowly erased from the minds of our great-grandchildren and replaced with love and worship for the state which provides their needs.

Globalism will envelop the world as the state takes control of every aspect of our great-great-grandchildrens lives and their love and worship for the state will turn to fear.

Our great-great-great-grandchildren will have no memory or knowledge of anything other than the totalitarian police state that controls their lives, and will believe that's all there is or ever has been.

You say we will never allow this to happen, but the subverters have been hard at work in the United States since 1933 and their plans and tactics are proceding like clockwork.

I've posted a link many times to inform you of who these people are, what is happening and how they are doing it...No one has ever responded to the article so I have no idea if anybody has read it.

Once again here it is: http://frankfurtschool.us/history.htm

About the Frankfurt School
Dr. Gerald L. Atkinson CDR USN (Ret.)
Copyright August 1999

Who in America today is at work destroying our traditions, our family bonds, our religious beginnings, our reinforcing institutions, indeed, our entire culture? What is it that is changing our American civilization?
Suppose you were to learn that nearly all of the observations made in this series of essays are completely consistent with a 'design' -- that is a concept, a way of thinking, and a process for bringing it about. And suppose one could identify a small core group of people who designed just such a concept and thought through the process of infusing it into a culture. Wouldn't you be interested in at least learning about such a core group? Wouldn't you want to know who they were, what they thought, and how they conjured up a process for bringing their thoughts into action? For Americans with even a smidgeon of curiosity, the answer should be a resounding yes!

Just such a core group did, indeed, exist. History identifies a small group of German intellectuals who devised concepts, processes, and action plans which conform very closely to what Americans presently observe every day in their culture. Observations, such as those made in this series of essays, can be directly traced to the work of this core group of intellectuals. They were members of the Frankfurt School, formed in Germany in 1923. They were the forebears of what some proclaim as 'cultural Marxism,' a radical social movement that has transformed American culture. It is more commonly known today as 'political correctness.'Read the whole article...PLEASE!...This is real...America and most of the free world is being controlled by what these people created and implemented.

It is being used to destroy the United States, capitalism, our way of life and the American dream...We have been infiltrated and the enemy is close to victory.

The world is changing because we have been changed...Open your eyes...It is everywhere you look and if you don't wake up it will soon be too late for our children.

Voting Obama out will do no good...99% of all politicians practice Political Correctness...They have to in order to get our votes because we have been brainwashed and expect them to...WE MUST WAKE UP!

To keep repeating that you don't practice PC is denying the obvious and playing into our enemies hands...Yes we do...Even our childrens school books are now PC compliant.

We have been bombarded by non-stop PC indoctrination and programming in every area of our daily lives since 1970...That's 40 years, people.

PC demands that we abandon common sense, believe the rediculous and deny the obvious...That compassion and empathy take precedence over the truth and self preservation.

I'm beginning to fear that PC is so hardwired onto our grey-matter circuit-boards that we will never break free...Not only are we programmed to comply, but to police each other.

We attack anyone who violates the strict rules and tabboos of political correctness...If the transgression concerns minorities they are called "racist", if it is gays they are called ''homophobe", if it is foreigners they are called "xenophobe".

PC has a standard system of beliefs and a standard programmed response for every violation of each individual belief...Everyone obeys them to some extent, some more than others...Radical offenders of PC are called "fascist".

I suppose that would be me. :salute:

[isn't it odd that 'fascism' is always associated with the right even though historicly it has only been practiced by the left?]

Sweetchuck

08-19-2010, 08:06 PM

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b373/eastms/interestingthreadh.gif

Palin Rider

08-19-2010, 08:06 PM

Noir

08-19-2010, 08:59 PM

Although we may disagree on how it will happen, I agree that eventually there will be a world government. People are better off when they have larger pools of talent and labor to draw from, instead of having those resources fragmented all over.

I concur, there has been a steady progression from tribes to city states, city states to nations, nations to united states and co-federalist nations. The next step will be Superblock nations (The West, central Asia & the east) and then one world goverment, which will ofcourse be secular.

At that point we will all we need to become a level one civilization, and start to look beyond our planet.

Other level one systems are already in operation, for example the Internet via 'the cloud' will be mankinds first level one comunications system, and may only be a few decades away.

HogTrash

08-19-2010, 09:04 PM

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b373/eastms/interestingthreadh.gifYou're a shining example of the 'dumbing down of America' sweety :salute:

Your typical response to things beyond your comprehension is :lalala:

You never seem to get beyond the basic human requirements :wtf:

"Duhhh - Uhg!.....Chuck want food, beer, pussy!" :bye1:

Sweetchuck

08-19-2010, 09:24 PM

HogTrash

08-20-2010, 01:01 PM

Food, beer (good beer, not that trailer trash, NASCAR shit) and pussy is good.

I'm just sick of all the whining. What a bunch of pussies we've become. GW is in office and all the fucking liberals are taking the bridge. The liberal socialists get control and the other side of the spectrum is predicting the end of the nation.

Know what - shut the fuck up already. Just shut the fuck up. I'm so sick of you pussies pissing the bed because your political opposition is in control. If you think this nation is so fucking fragile that a shift in political governance is going to destroy it, do us all a favor and move to fucking Canada.

Better yet, France. You'll fit right in.How can you judge me to be a whiner by reading only the first sentence of my post?

At least that's the impression I got from both of your posts including the really cool cartoon.

If you had of read it you would see that I stated this has very little to do with any particular political party or Obama.

This is something that has been in the works for 77 years and has slowly woven itself into every fiber of American society.

But of course these things are beyond you, so go on back to sleep and dream of unobtainable women and sipping expensive beer with a protruding pinky.

Just shut the fuck up. I'm so sick of you pussiesMy oh my, chucky...How unbecoming of you.

I'm sure you're much more polite in person, sweety.

Most internet rambos are.

Sweetchuck

08-20-2010, 04:32 PM

Venting is very cathartic.

I have little patience for white-flag waving pussies though.

HogTrash

08-20-2010, 05:51 PM

Venting is very cathartic.Well you just "vent" till your "cathart" is content sweety...

I have little patience for white-flag waving pussies though.

And so do I...That should be obvious by my tenacious appeals for people to wake up to the reality of what is happening before it is too late.

My determined and passionate campaign against Political Correctness should be evidence that I am one of the few that has not given up the struggle for survival.

The "white-flag waving pussies" that you refer to, which by the way includes you, are the brainwashed masses who need to wake up and join in the fight.

An enemy who seeks to conquer from within must enlist his allies from within...He does this through lies, propaganda, manipulation and false promises.

The pathetic attacks on me by you and others does nothing but strengthen the enemies conviction and reinforces their position...Without you, they can't win.

Without you, you can't win so you had better choose the right side...It's time to grow up and fight for what every generation has sacrificed to preserve for the next.

It's your turn to step up to the plate!

LuvRPgrl

08-22-2010, 12:07 AM

LuvRPgrl

08-22-2010, 12:07 AM

I concur, there has been a steady progression from tribes to city states, city states to nations, nations to united states and co-federalist nations. The next step will be Superblock nations (The West, central Asia & the east) and then one world goverment, which will ofcourse be secular.

At that point we will all we need to become a level one civilization, and start to look beyond our planet.

Other level one systems are already in operation, for example the Internet via 'the cloud' will be mankinds first level one comunications system, and may only be a few decades away.

More :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::l augh2::laugh2:

Noir

08-22-2010, 05:49 AM

More :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::l augh2::laugh2:

At bit more depth from your reply would of been welcome,

Palin Rider

08-22-2010, 03:06 PM

At bit more depth from your reply would of been welcome,

:trolls:

Noir

08-22-2010, 04:32 PM

:trolls:

Sage advice, though personally I prefer to feed them, posion.

revelarts

08-22-2010, 05:16 PM

Noir , PalinR,

your views are very optimistic. especially in the light of the shrinking of freedoms we clearly see in the U.S. and the U.K..
Obama has not rolled back any of the abuses of the bill of rights that where started under Bush. Including Gitmo and the ability to throw someone in jail indefinitely without a trail. Noir I believe London has the rep as one of the most Gov't surveillanced cities in the world. Maybe behind a few cities in China.
Here are a few questions for you guys?
Do you personally have more access and substantive influence on your local councilman, or your states representative or your state congressmen or the President of the U.S. or Prime Minister?

Of course it's your local council person.
the founders of the U.S. understood that for people to remain free they needed to have access to and real entre to the officials that represent them. Many even felt that the numbers that would be represented by the senators in the 1780's were to many to be realistically representative of the people's views. And that the result would be that the aristocratic and moneyed powers would be the ones that would have consistent and favored access to the higher federal levels of gov't and would manipulate it to there benefit.

Does that sound, at all, like whats happening today?

Who do you think has a better chance of seeing your congressman and the President about putting a toxic waste dump in your city? The head of Exxon or you? How about suggesting or writing legislation that would make it legal or illegal?

Also the constitution was a limited gov't document. That outlined what the gov't could do and supposedly excluded everything not specifically mentioned in it. Only amendments could change that. This was to ensure State and Local control over all other gov't ceded authority. however we now find ourselves in a place where you, Noir and PalinR, would say that the gov't needs to give out health care as a righ. And that from a federal level, not a state or local level. This is on top of all of the other items that have laid little by little upon the federal gov't over the past 70 years in the U.S. via laws, court cases and bureaucratic mandates.

You views of freedoms and the constitution are not what the founders envisioned. (and don't give me the bs about Slavery and Junk. Not all of them were proslavery and an amendments changed that and the right of women to vote)

The first thing out the window with large organizations is accountability.
Do you feel the the Congress or the parliament are holding the armed forces or the executive branches in check, inline with the wishes of the people or the law? Do you think a bigger government will do any better?

Cheney would not allow the the public or congress no what he discussed with certain biz leaders in secret meetings. do you think world gov't leaders will be better? That you personally will have more access to info about a world gov'ts activities?

Can you name for me one world empire of scale that didn't turn or just simply become more corrupt over time and finally collapse?

Just for a moment take off the glasses of optimism and imagine that by some flux a Mao or Stalin type managed to rise to power as the leader of the world gov't. As it is now if a nation goes bad there's another country to run to. In a one world scenario there's no country to flee to. No free army or nation state ask asylum or even the lame Untied Nations to call on to "condemn the leaders actions".

The only option is a Junta or a World Civil War and -Bada Bing BADA BOOM- we are back where we started if the war is successful.

As far a all religions dying off goes , people have been predicting that for 100's of years, It's not going to happen. Quit dreaming.
One interesting thing that does seem to be happening is that science is transmuting into religion, the new agers are on the forefront of blurring the line. But Quantum physics and some biological research has more than a few atheistic researchers leaning in a more spiritual direction of some form.

Noir you think that the total lack of privacy is a price that's worth paying for the benefits of the "cloud". That's fine that's your Opinion. But wouldn't the free and democratic thing to do, be for everyone to VOTE on it BEFORE it became ubiquitous and mandatory for modern life.

Why should a world gov't copy the American or British system? Why not the Chinese, it seems to be working better economically than our right now? If where going for practically. and since there are more people in China wouldn't they win in a fair election if there was one?

I'm rambling, i can go on and on, but I'll stop just to say that you guys view of freedom is MUCH more limited than the freedom envisioned by the best of the founders and most libertarians today.
And it's not going to be a gov't of the people if it's a world gov't. But more than likely a gov't of a few elites, politicos, military, corporate heads, banking magnets, that think they know better.

you guys ever read brave New World?

revelarts

08-22-2010, 05:27 PM

LuvRPgrl

08-23-2010, 01:55 AM

Although we may disagree on how it will happen, I agree that eventually there will be a world government. People are better off when they have larger pools of talent and labor to draw from, instead of having those resources fragmented all over..

I disagree

I'm also inclined to believe that eventually, people will lose interest in formal religion of any kind. It's all superstition, anyway..
No and no, its ot superstition

BUT:
Neither of these things has to be bad.

A world government can be democratic as easily as it can be totalitarian.'

Not at all true. The larger something is, the less accountability it will have, which lends itself to a dictatorship and away from a democracy.
Dont forget, a TRUE democracy would be one where the people are accurately informed of the politicians posistions, a world govt would basically prevent that.

.
It can still have the same freedoms the US ever had (and maybe more!) I suspect that most people in the world would welcome a government like that..

Again, I disagree

And if they want it badly enough, they'll get it. That's why it's important to educate as many people as we can, worldwide, about how valuable these freedoms are. There's America's best hope.[/QUOTE]

Oh hell dude, our educational system cant even educate our kids anymore. Its been going downhill for decades now.

LuvRPgrl

08-23-2010, 01:59 AM

I concur, there has been a steady progression from tribes to city states, city states to nations, nations to united states and co-federalist nations..

You need some educating son. Soviet union and the Eastern European block has broken down into a wholoe bunch of seperate countries. The US, until 1959 I think, was continually adding states to the union. It appears we have maxed out.

The next step will be Superblock nations (The West, central Asia & the east) and then one world goverment, which will ofcourse be secular. .
You are absolutely brain dead if you think people world wide would agree to a one world SECULAR govt.

At that point we will all we need to become a level one civilization, and start to look beyond our planet.

Other level one systems are already in operation, for example the Internet via 'the cloud' will be mankinds first level one comunications system, and may only be a few decades away.

Me thinks the clouds are in your head. Im not even understanding what you are saying here, put the bong down dude.

LuvRPgrl

08-23-2010, 02:00 AM

The United States draws near it's end and with it the hopes and dreams of the human race.

As the nation that set the standards for prosperity and human rights approaches it's final days, so follows the world.

[isn't it odd that 'fascism' is always associated with the right even though historicly it has only been practiced by the left?]

So, whats your point?

HogTrash

08-23-2010, 06:35 AM

So, whats your point?If you are truely interested in the "point" but failed to read the entire OP, then I suggest you go back and do so.

If you did read the entire OP but still don't get the "point", then you most likely suffer from some form of dyslexia.

I wish you good luck...

Noir

08-23-2010, 06:52 AM

You need some educating son. Soviet union and the Eastern European block has broken down into a wholoe bunch of seperate countries. The US, until 1959 I think, was continually adding states to the union. It appears we have maxed out.

Indeed, I said steady progression, not an unfaultering one. The Spanish empire was built up and broke down, as was the British ect, but these Blips are not trends.

Most of those that broke away from the Soviets are either in (or want in) to the EU. They will not remain independant countries for long.

You are absolutely brain dead if you think people world wide would agree to a one world SECULAR govt.

I knows, the religous are too intolerent to live with other reliogus people under a nonbias Secular Goverment with a Secular constitution, but hey, we can always hope can't we?

Me thinks the clouds are in your head. Im not even understanding what you are saying here, put the bong down dude.

If you don't understand you should ask rather than laugh as a cover for your own ignorence ^_^

What I was refering to are the levels (or types) by which we class civilisations. Type One is planetary, they control the weather, have a near infinate energy stream, free instant comunications, a hive mind of collective knowlegde (you can see how the Internet plays into this) ect.
Level two is Stellar, this type of Civilisation has Mastery over Stars (and so has much superiour technology) these civilisation can also be said to be immortal (that is until entrophy is complete)
Level three is Galactic, with hyperlanes and collinies across the couple of hundred billion Stars in their Galaxy.

As you can see we are a type 0 civilisation, however, progressions are being made all the time, globalization, co-federalization, the Internet, Weather control (we don't really no how far we've come with that yet because so much of it is top secret, but it's in development and some believe operation) Renewable energy ect. Type One may only be 100-150 years away, that's, if we don't end up as nucular dust first.

LuvRPgrl

08-23-2010, 11:38 AM

If you are truely interested in the "point" but failed to read the entire OP, then I suggest you go back and do so.

If you did read the entire OP but still don't get the "point", then you most likely suffer from some form of dyslexia.

I wish you good luck...

Gee, your charm is overwhelming

But as usual, your moronic self, you make false accusations followed by a conclusion based on faulty information because you failed to pay attention to the details. I must say thought, at least you are consistent.

I asked what YOUR point is, not the POINT OF THE OP

Kathianne

08-23-2010, 01:16 PM

Gee, your charm is overwhelming

But as usual, your moronic self, you make false accusations followed by a conclusion based on faulty information because you failed to pay attention to the details. I must say thought, at least you are consistent.

I asked what YOUR point is, not the POINT OF THE OP

Yep, seems his point was the ideals of the US were grand, you know, the ideals that 'all men were created equal'? Given the nature of man, that point really wasn't given a chance until the Civil War, though had worked miracles for many white Europeans before that.

Seems to me that 'most' minorities had gained rights through the civil rights acts on 60's and 70's. In fact, maybe more than fair, through affirmative action. Certainly the later caused unfairness in both college acceptance and job opportunities. While might be excusable in the short run, not the long.

However, the remedy of the wrongs is not pseudo science or a blanket cover of PC name calling. It's court cases challenging the unfairness.

LuvRPgrl

08-23-2010, 01:59 PM

Indeed, I said steady progression, not an unfaultering one. The Spanish empire was built up and broke down, as was the British ect, but these Blips are not trends..

Empire building is a blip and not a trend? HA, yea, its only been around since, well, the BEGINNING of civilization
Like all good liberals, you fail to take into account many of our "human nature" traits. Power, greed and money always drive people to conquer, the need for a local community is strong in the masses, that will never go away. You have a tendency to think everyone pretty much thinks like you in respect that they would like to see a global solution, But fact of the matter is there are billions of people who could care less, they only want what is good for them

Until you admit that, your ideas will remain in a idealist vacuum. All liberals either experience life and realize the conservatives actually really have real life answers, or you continue your life pushing liberal ideas which will never be enacted world wide, and will only work to destroy anytrhing our conservative Founding Fathers built.

Most of those that broke away from the Soviets are either in (or want in) to the EU. They will not remain independant countries for long..
wishful thinking joining the EU doesnt mean you are no longer an independent country, in fact by joining nato/EU assures them even more of remaining independent as it discourages other countries from trrying to take them over

I knows, the religous are too intolerent to live with other reliogus people under a nonbias Secular Goverment with a Secular constitution, but hey, we can always hope can't we.[/QUOTE]You knows very little, reality has shown us that the most succesful system to date is one written by Chrisitians using Christian values. Dont even bothering trying to refute that, the only evidence you will have is revisionist history.

Plus, those countries that have killed millions upon millions of their own citizens have all been secular. Soviet Union, Communist China, Cambodia,

If you don't understand you should ask rather than laugh as a cover for your own ignorence ^_^.Your arrogance combined with your naivity and ignorance is driving you.
To call me ignorant is not insulting, but just so damn funny.

What I was refering to are the levels (or types) by which we class civilisations. Type One is planetary, they control the weather, have a near infinate energy stream, free instant comunications, a hive mind of collective knowlegde (you can see how the Internet plays into this) ect.
Level two is Stellar, this type of Civilisation has Mastery over Stars (and so has much superiour technology) these civilisation can also be said to be immortal (that is until entrophy is complete)
Level three is Galactic, with hyperlanes and collinies across the couple of hundred billion Stars in their Galaxy..You need to talk with Isaac Asimov, writing such fiction in a book would be your best bet.

As you can see we are a type 0 civilisation, however, progressions are being made all the time, globalization, co-federalization, the Internet, Weather control (we don't really no how far we've come with that yet because so much of it is top secret, but it's in development and some believe operation) Renewable energy ect. Type One may only be 100-150 years away, that's, if we don't end up as nucular dust first.Well, your last three words, reality sets in at last

HogTrash

08-23-2010, 02:52 PM

Yep, seems his point was the ideals of the US were grand, you know, the ideals that 'all men were created equal'?I'm sure that our "ideals" of what makes the US "grand" are very simular.

Given the nature of man, that point really wasn't given a chance until the Civil War, though had worked miracles for many white Europeans before that.We are a great people who are doing our best to right our wrongs, many times at the expense of our own best interests and even survival.

Seems to me that 'most' minorities had gained rights through the civil rights acts on 60's and 70's. In fact, maybe more than fair, through affirmative action. Certainly the later caused unfairness in both college acceptance and job opportunities. While might be excusable in the short run, not the long.I see no evidence of any feelings of unfairness on behalf of those we have done so much to better their lives, but in fact it has become obvious that hatred for the white race and America is their primary motivation.

It seems quite obvious to me that the great majority of minorities support the destruction of the US and it's rebirth as their ideal of the perfect marxist utopia, as demonstrated by their liberal voting habits.

However, the remedy of the wrongs is not pseudo science or a blanket cover of PC name calling.Political Correctness is a poor litmus test for determining science to be "pseudo"...If you have something more substantial, I would be happy to consider it.

It's court cases challenging the unfairness.PC is so ingrained in even the minds of our courts that I doubt they are capable of resolving our racial problems.

Consider for a moment the judges who are being appointed to even the highest court in the land...

When minority voters become the majority, so will the progressive judges sitting on the Supreme Court.

The stage is being set for drastic change.

Agnapostate

08-23-2010, 02:56 PM

Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that the synagogue is at the center of this fascinating and enthralling conspiracy of yours? ;)

Kathianne

08-23-2010, 03:03 PM

I'm sure that our "ideals" of what makes the US "grand" are very simular. That would be great. Expound on this.

We are a great people who are doing our best to right our wrongs, many times at the expense of our own best interests and even survival.A decent argument may be made via affirmative action, make it.

I see no evidence of any feelings of unfairness on behalf of those we have done so much to better their lives, but in fact it has become obvious that hatred for the white race and America is their primary motivation.Well just like I implied that affirmative action could be used justifiably against white people, on the same note a justifiable argument can be made that very qualified people of color are burdened with label of 'quota.' Doesn't matter whether or not qualified and performing, just labeled.

It seems quite obvious to me that the great majority of minorities support the destruction of the US and it's rebirth as their ideal of the perfect marxist utopia, as demonstrated by their liberal voting habits. Great, since it's so obvious, shouldn't have a problem with links.

Political Correctness is a poor litmus test for determining science to be "pseudo"...If you have something more substantial, I would be happy to consider it. This means nothing, just words to distract.

PC is so ingrained in even the minds of our courts that I doubt they are capable of resolving our racial problems.

Consider for a moment the judges who are being appointed to even the highest court in the land...

When minority voters become the majority, so will the progressive judges sitting on the Supreme Court.

The stage is being set for drastic change.What do you do on your off time? David Dukes bidding?

Noir

08-23-2010, 03:34 PM

Empire building is a blip and not a trend? HA, yea, its only been around since, well, the BEGINNING of civilization
Like all good liberals, you fail to take into account many of our "human nature" traits. Power, greed and money always drive people to conquer, the need for a local community is strong in the masses, that will never go away. You have a tendency to think everyone pretty much thinks like you in respect that they would like to see a global solution, But fact of the matter is there are billions of people who could care less, they only want what is good for them

No, the *breaking up* of these empires into smaller nations is a blip, not a trend.

Until you admit that, your ideas will remain in a idealist vacuum. All liberals either experience life and realize the conservatives actually really have real life answers, or you continue your life pushing liberal ideas which will never be enacted world wide, and will only work to destroy anytrhing our conservative Founding Fathers built.

Dunno what I have to say that has anything to do with libs or cons.

wishful thinking joining the EU doesnt mean you are no longer an independent country, in fact by joining nato/EU assures them even more of remaining independent as it discourages other countries from trrying to take them over

Really? Laws inacted by the European Commsion (unelected) that over-rule your national laws, Forgien policy co-ordinated by a president
(unelected) Currency standarized to the Euro, Inter-european interest rates set by the EU. Immagration policy overuled. (the list goes on and on) You join the EU you lose your indiependence.

You knows very little, reality has shown us that the most succesful system to date is one written by Chrisitians using Christian values. Dont even bothering trying to refute that, the only evidence you will have is revisionist history.

The US constitution is Secular, as you well know the constitution makes sure that no religion may be established by the state. By a secular state I do not mean one in which you are forced to be a secularist, but instead are free to believe whatever you want, and that no one religion is held above any other with respect to law. Would you have a probelm with that?

Plus, those countries that have killed millions upon millions of their own citizens have all been secular. Soviet Union, Communist China, Cambodia,

Indeed, in these counties the same mechanics of religon and submission were used as is in theocratic states, but just under different names. i.e. say Stalin was the *god* and Stalinsim the religon.

Your arrogance combined with your naivity and ignorance is driving you.
To call me ignorant is not insulting, but just so damn funny.

You were the one that said you didn't understand something after previously relying to it with a flurry of laughing emotes, thus you stated your own ignorence, not me.

[quite]You need to talk with Isaac Asimov, writing such fiction in a book would be your best bet.[/quote]

Asimov is a fantasitic writter, but this is no fiction. Which part do you not think is 'real'?

Well, your last three words, reality sets in at last

Indeed, there is a race ongoing between scientific reason and thought, and certain death (likly brought about by religon, at present between Islam and the Jews) Either outcome is equally likly, saddly.

Agnapostate

08-23-2010, 03:38 PM

Stalinism probably acted as a bulwark against greater massacres, since the rapid industrialization of the USSR during the 1930's empowered its citizens to resist Operation Barbarossa (the Nazi invasion of Eastern Europe). But given that the opportunity cost was genuine socialism, we can't give it too much credit.

HogTrash

08-23-2010, 08:18 PM

Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that the synagogue is at the center of this fascinating and enthralling conspiracy of yours? ;)I am a round peg you are trying to pound into a square hole which always has you looking for my jewish connection.

The jews participation is based on greed which, although substantial, is much less a threat than the real motivation of "Ideology".

Because of their wealth and power, the arrogant jews have no fear of becoming a proletariat and are sure they can control whatever the future brings.

Jewish greed is a much easier enemy to deal with than the far left progressives who have worked so long and hard to bring about their perfect Marxist Utopia.

It is not a band of wild native americans screaming about 'libertarian communism' or the Red Chinese Army out-nuking us.

These are intelligent white marxists whose subversion of America is nearing it's completion.

What is happening is fact, not conspiracy and if you are seriously interested, here is the truth of it.

http://frankfurtschool.us/history.htm

This is authoritarian communism, which if I'm not mistaken is your enemy as well as mine.

When totalitarianism is the rule, you will be policed the same as the rest of us, Mr 'Against a National Police State'.

HogTrash

08-24-2010, 06:46 AM

What do you do on your off time? David Dukes bidding?Your passionate views and defensive manner on the subject of black America makes me wonder if you are possibly involved in an interacial relationship or maybe the mother of biracial children?

If so, please allow me to reassure you that this is not about skin color or hate and that my beliefs, opinions and fears are backed by science and politicly motivated...I am not the enemy, Kathianne.

bullypulpit

08-24-2010, 08:27 AM

The United States draws near it's end and with it the hopes and dreams of the human race.

As the nation that set the standards for prosperity and human rights approaches it's final days, so follows the world.

It's story will be erased from the history books and our grandchildren will never hear the names of our founding fathers or the words, "of the people-for the people-by the people".

'God' will be silenced and slowly erased from the minds of our great-grandchildren and replaced with love and worship for the state which provides their needs.

Globalism will envelop the world as the state takes control of every aspect of our great-great-grandchildrens lives and their love and worship for the state will turn to fear.

Our great-great-great-grandchildren will have no memory or knowledge of anything other than the totalitarian police state that controls their lives, and will believe that's all there is or ever has been.

You say we will never allow this to happen, but the subverters have been hard at work in the United States since 1933 and their plans and tactics are proceding like clockwork.

I've posted a link many times to inform you of who these people are, what is happening and how they are doing it...No one has ever responded to the article so I have no idea if anybody has read it.

Once again here it is: http://frankfurtschool.us/history.htm
Read the whole article...PLEASE!...This is real...America and most of the free world is being controlled by what these people created and implemented.

It is being used to destroy the United States, capitalism, our way of life and the American dream...We have been infiltrated and the enemy is close to victory.

The world is changing because we have been changed...Open your eyes...It is everywhere you look and if you don't wake up it will soon be too late for our children.

Voting Obama out will do no good...99% of all politicians practice Political Correctness...They have to in order to get our votes because we have been brainwashed and expect them to...WE MUST WAKE UP!

To keep repeating that you don't practice PC is denying the obvious and playing into our enemies hands...Yes we do...Even our childrens school books are now PC compliant.

We have been bombarded by non-stop PC indoctrination and programming in every area of our daily lives since 1970...That's 40 years, people.

PC demands that we abandon common sense, believe the rediculous and deny the obvious...That compassion and empathy take precedence over the truth and self preservation.

I'm beginning to fear that PC is so hardwired onto our grey-matter circuit-boards that we will never break free...Not only are we programmed to comply, but to police each other.

We attack anyone who violates the strict rules and tabboos of political correctness...If the transgression concerns minorities they are called "racist", if it is gays they are called ''homophobe", if it is foreigners they are called "xenophobe".

PC has a standard system of beliefs and a standard programmed response for every violation of each individual belief...Everyone obeys them to some extent, some more than others...Radical offenders of PC are called "fascist".

I suppose that would be me. :salute:

[isn't it odd that 'fascism' is always associated with the right even though historicly it has only been practiced by the left?]

Off yer meds again Hawg? The voices in your head getting louder? Really Hawg...This is just more right wing paranoia. But hey, if that's all ya got, run with it. It is amusing to watch.

HogTrash

08-24-2010, 09:05 AM

Off yer meds again Hawg? The voices in your head getting louder? Really Hawg...This is just more right wing paranoia. But hey, if that's all ya got, run with it. It is amusing to watch.Could you possibly explain to me the beliefs, opinions and policies that define a "Southpark liberal"?

And could you also name some politicians who you believe support your "Southpark" political views?

Kathianne

08-24-2010, 01:50 PM

Your passionate views and defensive manner on the subject of black America makes me wonder if you are possibly involved in an interacial relationship or maybe the mother of biracial children?

If so, please allow me to reassure you that this is not about skin color or hate and that my beliefs, opinions and fears are backed by science and politicly motivated...I am not the enemy, Kathianne.

:laugh2: My children are caucasian, if that helps you. But heh, they are bi-religious.

For you HT, it is all about skin.

Palin Rider

08-24-2010, 02:18 PM

I disagree

No and no, its ot superstition

Not exactly debate material, there...
'

Not at all true. The larger something is, the less accountability it will have, which lends itself to a dictatorship and away from a democracy.
I never said a global democracy would be automatic. There would need to be a major effort by the people to achieve and maintain it.

And if they want it badly enough, they'll get it. That's why it's important to educate as many people as we can, worldwide, about how valuable these freedoms are. There's America's best hope.

Oh hell dude, our educational system cant even educate our kids anymore. Its been going downhill for decades now.Straw man; there's no reason at all that every educational moment has to take place in a public school.

KarlMarx

08-25-2010, 06:02 PM

Although we may disagree on how it will happen, I agree that eventually there will be a world government. People are better off when they have larger pools of talent and labor to draw from, instead of having those resources fragmented all over.

I'm also inclined to believe that eventually, people will lose interest in formal religion of any kind. It's all superstition, anyway.

BUT:
Neither of these things has to be bad.

A world government can be democratic as easily as it can be totalitarian. It can still have the same freedoms the US ever had (and maybe more!) I suspect that most people in the world would welcome a government like that. And if they want it badly enough, they'll get it. That's why it's important to educate as many people as we can, worldwide, about how valuable these freedoms are. There's America's best hope.

You are dead wrong. A world government would have no one to answer to. Where do you think that will lead? And who will be the head of this government? One person? A small elite class? And they will have more power than any humans before them. They will be able to appropriate as much wealth as they wish, they will be able to dedicate vast numbers of people to slave away at some grand project e.g. the Great Wall of China or some such thing. There will be nothing that will be out of their reach.

And there will be a religion in this one world government, it will be the State.

Palin Rider

08-25-2010, 06:36 PM

You are dead wrong. A world government would have no one to answer to. Where do you think that will lead? And who will be the head of this government? One person? A small elite class? And they will have more power than any humans before them. They will be able to appropriate as much wealth as they wish, they will be able to dedicate vast numbers of people to slave away at some grand project e.g. the Great Wall of China or some such thing. There will be nothing that will be out of their reach.

Give me one logical reason that no world government could ever be a democracy or a representative republic.

HogTrash

08-25-2010, 07:04 PM

Give me one logical reason that no world government could ever be a democracy or a representative republic.Government is a necessary evil that must be kept to a minumum...A world government would be immense.

"Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely"...On a planetary scale, it would be unimaginable.

KarlMarx

08-25-2010, 07:42 PM

Give me one logical reason that no world government could ever be a democracy or a representative republic.
I thought I made it clear... ok, let me make it clearer.

One has to look at history. That should be logical enough.

1. When there is no accountability, there is always abuse. History is full of examples of exactly this.

2. The saying "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" is true. Dictators have let go of their power in one of three ways, because they died, because it was forced from them, or because they willingly let it go. There are very few examples of the last one but very many of the first two.

The reason our system of government is not a dictatorship is that the power of the government is broken into three branches. Each branch keeps the other two in check (at least in theory).

I might add that there once was something like a one world government, the Roman Empire. At one time the Romans were a Rex Publica (or a Republic), eventually, as they expanded and acquited more land, people like Julius Caesar became Emperor (and by the consent of the people!)... eventually Rome was an Empire ruled by an emperor with unlimited power....

The temptation of unlimited power is too great for people to resist. Eventually, the clever, the ambitious will find ways to grab it all.

Palin Rider

08-25-2010, 08:08 PM

I thought I made it clear... ok, let me make it clearer.

One has to look at history. That should be logical enough.

1. When there is no accountability, there is always abuse. History is full of examples of exactly this.

2. The saying "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" is true. Dictators have let go of their power in one of three ways, because they died, because it was forced from them, or because they willingly let it go. There are very few examples of the last one but very many of the first two.

The reason our system of government is not a dictatorship is that the power of the government is broken into three branches. Each branch keeps the other two in check (at least in theory).

I might add that there once was something like a one world government, the Roman Empire. At one time the Romans were a Rex Publica (or a Republic), eventually, as they expanded and acquited more land, people like Julius Caesar became Emperor (and by the consent of the people!)... eventually Rome was an Empire ruled by an emperor with unlimited power....

The temptation of unlimited power is too great for people to resist. Eventually, the clever, the ambitious will find ways to grab it all.

One empirical example is not a logical reason. (Besides, you killed your own case when you brought up separation of powers without mentioning how a world government would preclude something like this.)

Try again.

KarlMarx

08-25-2010, 08:54 PM

One empirical example is not a logical reason. (Besides, you killed your own case when you brought up separation of powers without mentioning how a world government would preclude something like this.)

Try again.
No, I proved my point. I said that there are many examples in history. I used one example, but that is not the only one. I think that, unless you are totally ignorant of history, you should be able to find others.

The reason why I brought up the separation of powers in our own government was to make the point that only by having accountability can a government remain a republic/democracy, thus proving my point yet again.

Since you are the one who made the claim that a world government would not become a totalitarian dictatorship without anything to back up your claim the onus is now on you to provide logical proof.

KarlMarx

08-25-2010, 09:01 PM

Government is a necessary evil that must be kept to a minumum...A world government would be immense.

"Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely"...On a planetary scale, it would be unimaginable.

From Thomas Paine's Common Sense
Of the Origin and Design of Government in General, with Concise Remarks on the English Constitution

SOME writers have so confounded society with government, as to leave little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only different, but have different origins. Society is produced by our wants, and government by our wickedness; the former promotes our happiness POSITIVELY by uniting our affections, the latter NEGATIVELY by restraining our vices. The one encourages intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is a patron, the last a punisher.

Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one: for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer. Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built upon the ruins of the bowers of paradise. For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform and irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other lawgiver; but that not being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this he is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case advises him, out of two evils to choose the least. Wherefore, security being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably follows that whatever form thereof appears most likely to ensure it to us, with the least expense and greatest benefit, is preferable to all others.

(Hey Obama, note the last sentence....)

The remainder of the work is found at...

http://www.ushistory.org/paine/commonsense/

Palin Rider

08-25-2010, 09:42 PM

No, I proved my point. I said that there are many examples in history. I used one example, but that is not the only one. I think that, unless you are totally ignorant of history, you should be able to find others.

The reason why I brought up the separation of powers in our own government was to make the point that only by having accountability can a government remain a republic/democracy, thus proving my point yet again.

Since you are the one who made the claim that a world government would not become a totalitarian dictatorship without anything to back up your claim the onus is now on you to provide logical proof.

Ah, but I said no such thing.

A world government won't be democratic or representative UNLESS the people insist on it. If the world's people are lazy and apathetic, the resulting government will indeed be a dictatorship, oligarchy, or something similar.

With any luck, there will come a time when people figure out that apathy about their government(s) is a really bad way to go.

KarlMarx

08-26-2010, 06:11 AM

Ah, but I said no such thing.

A world government won't be democratic or representative UNLESS the people insist on it. If the world's people are lazy and apathetic, the resulting government will indeed be a dictatorship, oligarchy, or something similar.

With any luck, there will come a time when people figure out that apathy about their government(s) is a really bad way to go.
I admire your idealism, but disagree with you nonetheless.

The people of Rome insisted on making Julius Caesar dictator for life.

The people of Germany elected Adolph Hitler.

The people of this country elected you-know-who.

Eventually, the people do become apathetic or are persuaded by the arguments of those who know how to handle a crowd. Judging from history, even if a one world government were to start out as a democracy or a republic, it would eventually become a totalitarian state.

revelarts

08-26-2010, 08:39 AM

Noir , PalinR,

your views are very optimistic. especially in the light of the shrinking of freedoms we clearly see in the U.S. and the U.K..
Obama has not rolled back any of the abuses of the bill of rights that where started under Bush. Including Gitmo and the ability to throw someone in jail indefinitely without a trail. Noir I believe London has the rep as one of the most Gov't surveillanced cities in the world. Maybe behind a few cities in China.
Here are a few questions for you guys?
Do you personally have more access and substantive influence on your local councilman, or your states representative or your state congressmen or the President of the U.S. or Prime Minister?

Of course it's your local council person.
the founders of the U.S. understood that for people to remain free they needed to have access to and real entree to the officials that represent them. Many even felt that the numbers that would be represented by the senators in the 1780's were to many to be realistically representative of the people's views. And that the result would be that the aristocratic and moneyed powers would be the ones that would have consistent and favored access to the higher federal levels of gov't and would manipulate it to there benefit.

Does that sound, at all, like whats happening today?

Who do you think has a better chance of seeing your congressman and the President about putting a toxic waste dump in your city? The head of Exxon or you? How about suggesting or writing legislation that would make it legal or illegal?

Also the constitution was a limited gov't document. That outlined what the gov't could do and supposedly excluded everything not specifically mentioned in it. Only amendments could change that. This was to ensure State and Local control over all other gov't ceded authority. however we now find ourselves in a place where you, Noir and PalinR, would say that the gov't needs to give out health care as a righ. And that from a federal level, not a state or local level. This is on top of all of the other items that have laid little by little upon the federal gov't over the past 70 years in the U.S. via laws, court cases and bureaucratic mandates.

You views of freedoms and the constitution are not what the founders envisioned. (and don't give me the bs about Slavery and Junk. Not all of them were proslavery and an amendments changed that and the right of women to vote)

The first thing out the window with large organizations is accountability.
Do you feel the the Congress or the parliament are holding the armed forces or the executive branches in check, inline with the wishes of the people or the law? Do you think a bigger government will do any better?

Cheney would not allow the the public or congress no what he discussed with certain biz leaders in secret meetings. do you think world gov't leaders will be better? That you personally will have more access to info about a world gov'ts activities?

Can you name for me one world empire of scale that didn't turn or just simply become more corrupt over time and finally collapse?

Just for a moment take off the glasses of optimism and imagine that by some flux a Mao or Stalin type managed to rise to power as the leader of the world gov't. As it is now if a nation goes bad there's another country to run to. In a one world scenario there's no country to flee to. No free army or nation state ask asylum or even the lame Untied Nations to call on to "condemn the leaders actions".

The only option is a Junta or a World Civil War and -Bada Bing BADA BOOM- we are back where we started if the war is successful.

As far a all religions dying off goes , people have been predicting that for 100's of years, It's not going to happen. Quit dreaming.
One interesting thing that does seem to be happening is that science is transmuting into religion, the new agers are on the forefront of blurring the line. But Quantum physics and some biological research has more than a few atheistic researchers leaning in a more spiritual direction of some form.

Noir you think that the total lack of privacy is a price that's worth paying for the benefits of the "cloud". That's fine that's your Opinion. But wouldn't the free and democratic thing to do, be for everyone to VOTE on it BEFORE it became ubiquitous and mandatory for modern life.

Why should a world gov't copy the American or British system? Why not the Chinese, it seems to be working better economically than our right now? If where going for practically. and since there are more people in China wouldn't they win in a fair election if there was one?

I'm rambling, i can go on and on, but I'll stop just to say that you guys view of freedom is MUCH more limited than the freedom envisioned by the best of the founders and most libertarians today.
And it's not going to be a gov't of the people if it's a world gov't. But more than likely a gov't of a few elites, politicos, military, corporate heads, banking magnets, that think they know better.

you guys ever read brave New World?

I gave you several reason here none reply too.
Others have made similar points.

you asked for logical reasons that's fine but you can't or shouldn't just dismiss the empirical ones. not if your honest.

part of the power corrupts answer and the look at other world empires answers are based on the foundation of knowledge of Human nature. following that base LOGICALLY, you come to the conclusion that a singular group of world leaders will abuse it's authority for selfish purposes rather than maintain a servants attitude toward the people or systems.