Obamas NOAA chief pushes for governmental control of New England fisheries

[BoogyMan]

Fewer but better jobs due to a government takeover of New England fisheries???

Does anyone doubt that there is anything that Mr. Obama and his disciples would not push for the government to takeover?



Link (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20100824fishermen_plan_obama_vacation_protest/srvc=news&position=also)

Leaders of the recreational and commercial fishing industry are planning a boat protest against federal policies Thursday outside the harbor of Vineyard Haven on Martha’s Vineyard, where President Obama and his family are summer vacationing.

The protest is being organized after a bipartisan, bicameral coalition of federal lawmakers -- including the core of the President’s Congressional base on banking and health care issues -- have given up hope of working productively with Obama’s top appointee for oceans and fisheries, Jane Lubchenco, who heads the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

Boats from Gloucester and New Bedford, the hub ports of New England, Point Judith, R.I., and New York and New Jersey are expected, according to Tina Jackson, president of the American Alliance of Fishermen.
....

Since her appointment to head the NOAA by President Obama, Lubchenco, who had been an officer of the Environmental Defense Fund and a leader of the Pew Oceans Commission, has pushed to convert the fisheries into commodities markets under a management system known as catch shares.

In a statement to the Times soon after her confirmation by the Senate, Lubchenco’s office said her goal was to see a "significant fraction of the vessels ... removed."

With the stocks rebuilding strongly, fishermen wonder at the need to reduce the size of the work force.
....
Lubchenco has argued that consolidation, which has consistently followed catch shares, produces fewer but better jobs while giving the government a stronger hand in conservation.

[Gaffer]

He's got over two years to grab up everything in the country. He's looking to pull a chavez as soon as he can.

[Palin Rider]

Fewer but better jobs due to a government takeover of New England fisheries???

Does anyone doubt that there is anything that Mr. Obama and his disciples would not push for the government to takeover?

Any merits or flaws of this plan aside, more government regulation is not the same thing as a government takeover.

You really need to be more honest with your headlines.

[BoogyMan]

You need to learn to read. When you cannot engage in an activity without obtaining a license from the federal government and the government promises fewer jobs in the industry because of their involvement......that equates to a government takeover.

You freaking apologists disgust me.


Any merits or flaws of this plan aside, more government regulation is not the same thing as a government takeover.

You really need to be more honest with your headlines.

[Palin Rider]

You need to learn to read. When you cannot engage in an activity without obtaining a license from the federal government ....that equates to a government takeover.

Wrong. You're not employed by the government and they're not seizing your property.

Try again, this time without the tantrum.

[BoogyMan]

More apologist stupidity; expected and filed.

A government takeover is exactly what this is.


Wrong. You're not employed by the government and they're not seizing your property.

Try again, this time without the tantrum.

[Palin Rider]

More apologist stupidity; expected and filed.

A government takeover is exactly what this is.

What if I pinned you to the floor, held your wrist behind your neck, and made you say "Uncle?"

That's the usual way to deal with someone jumping up and down screaming "you're not the boss of me" and "you can't make me!" Which is the level you're now operating on.

[Gaffer]

What if I pinned you to the floor, held your wrist behind your neck, and made you say "Uncle?"

That's the usual way to deal with someone jumping up and down screaming "you're not the boss of me" and "you can't make me!" Which is the level you're now operating on.

I don't see that as the case. I do see someone (you) that is trying to act superior and at the same time derailing the conversation. But hen, that's what liberals do.

The government is trying to take over the fishing industry. Just like they are going to try to take over every industry in the country.

[Palin Rider]

I don't see that as the case. I do see someone (you) that is trying to act superior and at the same time derailing the conversation. But hen, that's what liberals do.

The government is trying to take over the fishing industry. Just like they are going to try to take over every industry in the country.

Neither one of you is explaining your point: just repeating it.

"You are one well indoctrinated puppy."

[Gaffer]

Neither one of you is explaining your point: just repeating it.

"You are one well indoctrinated puppy."

What's to explain?

[Palin Rider]

What's to explain?

Not that I expect you to answer this, but how is it a government takeover when boats are not being seized and fishermen aren't required to be government employees?

[Gaffer]

Not that I expect you to answer this, but how is it a government takeover when boats are not being seized and fishermen aren't required to be government employees?

They seize control of the corporation, not the boats. Individuals are not of any concern. Government regulation forces companies to do certain things and the individuals are stuck going along with it to make a living.

[Palin Rider]

They seize control of the corporation, not the boats. Individuals are not of any concern. Government regulation forces companies to do certain things and the individuals are stuck going along with it to make a living.

And since when is government regulation equivalent to a government takeover?

Government takeovers usually refer to nationalization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalization), you realize.

[Gaffer]

And since when is government regulation equivalent to a government takeover?

Government takeovers usually refer to nationalization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalization), you realize.

You know as well as I do he couldn't get away with outright nationalization, it's a slow process that begins with regulating, which is still government control.

[Palin Rider]

You know as well as I do he couldn't get away with outright nationalization, it's a slow process that begins with regulating, which is still government control.

I see that you've now backed off from the word "takeover," so I'll thank you for your concession.

[Gaffer]

I see that you've now backed off from the word "takeover," so I'll thank you for your concession.

A slow process leading to eventual take over. There I fixed it.

[Kathianne]

A slow process leading to eventual take over. There I fixed it.

Actually not that slow. I can't imagine what industry will look like by the time this administration is out. They are killing the middle class, via destruction of economy.

[BoogyMan]

Are you really this thick or are you just so deluded that you cannot see the fact when it is right in front of you?

Today: people can fish and run businesses based on fishing that have been in families for many decades.

Tomorrow: people will have to meet governmental guidelines to fish and purchase licensure in order to do so based on the say so of a government lackey.

Egads man.....


And since when is government regulation equivalent to a government takeover?

Government takeovers usually refer to nationalization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalization), you realize.

[Palin Rider]

Are you really this thick or are you just so deluded that you cannot see the fact when it is right in front of you?

Today: people can fish and run businesses based on fishing that have been in families for many decades.

Tomorrow: people will have to meet governmental guidelines to fish and purchase licensure in order to do so based on the say so of a government lackey.

Egads man.....

I'm going to put this as simply as I can:

If you're going to tell me that taking more fishing boats out of the water when the fish population could still sustain them is bad policy, I'll agree with you.

But if you're going to tell me that it's a Chavez-style government takeover/nationalization, I'll call bullshit.

Got it? I sure as hell hope so.

[Gaffer]

I'm going to put this as simply as I can:

If you're going to tell me that taking more fishing boats out of the water when the fish population could still sustain them is bad policy, I'll agree with you.

But if you're going to tell me that it's a Chavez-style government takeover/nationalization, I'll call bullshit.

Got it? I sure as hell hope so.

Unlike chavez the dark lord has too many road blocks and speed bumps to maneuver around to get to nationalization. It's a lot slower process in this country and a lot bigger. Once the government has their hands on it they will never let go. The only question is, what industry will they go after next?

[BoogyMan]

The thread is about "governmental control," you know, the terms I used in the OP title.

If you are going to play the typical unarmed liberal claiming intellectual superiority game, you will soon find you have brought a stick to a gunfight, especially in light of your multiple efforts in this thread alone to prove that you cannot read.


I'm going to put this as simply as I can:

If you're going to tell me that taking more fishing boats out of the water when the fish population could still sustain them is bad policy, I'll agree with you.

But if you're going to tell me that it's a Chavez-style government takeover/nationalization, I'll call bullshit.

Got it? I sure as hell hope so.

[Palin Rider]

The thread is about "governmental control," you know, the terms I used in the OP title.

If you are going to play the typical unarmed liberal claiming intellectual superiority game, you will soon find you have brought a stick to a gunfight, especially in light of your multiple efforts in this thread alone to prove that you cannot read.

You have no gun, unless it's a plastic toy.

Government control = nationalization, and you know it as well as I do.

[BoogyMan]

Governmental control means governmental control. That translates to the government jumping in an hosing up another industry in America that is doing quite well without it's input.

Once again you have tried a rejoinder that you neither thought about nor did you research.


You have no gun, unless it's a plastic toy.

Government control = nationalization, and you know it as well as I do.

[Palin Rider]

Governmental control means governmental control. That translates to the government jumping in an hosing up another industry in America that is doing quite well without it's input.

:bsflag:

Had that really been what you meant, you would have put "more government control" in the headline. You were just trying to scare people, and I called you on it.

You are a joke.

[BoogyMan]

If you wish to double down on stupid, that is your right, PR. Government control only damages industries such as the northern fisheries the DC clown squad has set its sights on now.

The funny part is you don't have the frontal lobes to clock the fact that you called me on nothing and have simply made an assumptive fool of yourself.


Had that really been what you meant, you would have put "more government control" in the headline. You were just trying to scare people, and I called you on it.

You are a joke.

[Palin Rider]

If you wish to double down on stupid, that is your right, PR. Government control only damages industries such as the northern fisheries the DC clown squad has set its sights on now.

So you favor more government control on other industries?

Seems you're the one digging the ever-deeper hole for yourself, not me.

[BoogyMan]

So you favor more government control on other industries?

Seems you're the one digging the ever-deeper hole for yourself, not me.

LOL, when you cannot support your argument you resort to gibberish?

[Palin Rider]

LOL, when you cannot support your argument you resort to gibberish?

My argument was won a long time ago. Now you're just pretending not to understand that fact.

[BoogyMan]

My argument was won a long time ago. Now you're just pretending not to understand that fact.

An assumptive proof text of your inability to see the danger of increasing government control of industry is not a win, turbo.

[Palin Rider]

An assumptive proof text of your inability to see the danger of increasing government control of industry is not a win, turbo.

I get it: you're going to continue your series of "Nuh Uh" posts until I stop posting in this thread, so that you can then claim "victory."

Won't work. I'm too easily amused. :laugh2:

[BoogyMan]

You have already been shown to be an assumptive twerp who cannot discuss a topic with people who actually understand the meaning of big-boy words.

Increasing governmental control that leads to a shut down of employment, just as has been pointed out to you before, is never a good thing and there is no way that you can positively spin this issue for the idiot you help put in the white house.


I get it: you're going to continue your series of "Nuh Uh" posts until I stop posting in this thread, so that you can then claim "victory."

Won't work. I'm too easily amused. :laugh2:

[Palin Rider]

You have already been shown to be an assumptive twerp who cannot discuss a topic with people who actually understand the meaning of big-boy words.

Increasing governmental control that leads to a shut down of employment, just as has been pointed out to you before, is never a good thing and there is no way that you can positively spin this issue for the idiot you help put in the white house.

Why discuss a topic with someone who was shown to have been lying about it? Clearly such people don't want a "discussion."

I definitely like this new tack of yours, where you accuse me of trying to spin something away from your point of view after I already agreed with you. Keep it up; it's quite diverting.

[PostmodernProphet]

What if I pinned you to the floor, held your wrist behind your neck, and made you say "Uncle?"

That's the usual way to deal with someone jumping up and down screaming "you're not the boss of me" and "you can't make me!" Which is the level you're now operating on.

so when the government pins fishermen to the floor, holds their wrists behind their neck and makes them say "we quit" is that the usual way for government to deal with someone who says "you can't make me"?......

[Palin Rider]

so when the government pins fishermen to the floor, holds their wrists behind their neck and makes them say "we quit" is that the usual way for government to deal with someone who says "you can't make me"?......

It's a common way....

[PostmodernProphet]

It's a common way....

funny then that you've devoted yourself to denying it in this thread....

[Palin Rider]

funny then that you've devoted yourself to denying it in this thread....

You jump to some extremely bizarre conclusions, PMP.

[PostmodernProphet]

You jump to some extremely bizarre conclusions, PMP.

are you denying this is true?...there was no jumping involved....

said her goal was to see a "significant fraction of the vessels ... removed."

[Palin Rider]

are you denying this is true?...there was no jumping involved....

You're exceedingly confused. I never claimed to have agreed with the policy. Only that it did not amount to nationalization.

[PostmodernProphet]

You're exceedingly confused. I never claimed to have agreed with the policy. Only that it did not amount to nationalization.

here is your error.....the OP talked about government control.....you have flopped back and forth between talking about government licensing and government ownership.....neither is involved in this instance.....but obviously, there is something in between which is involved and it definitely government control, since the government would be deciding how many fishermen there could be and how the business of fishing could be operated......

[Palin Rider]

here is your error.....the OP talked about government control.....you have flopped back and forth between talking about government licensing and government ownership.....neither is involved in this instance.....but obviously, there is something in between which is involved and it definitely government control, since the government would be deciding how many fishermen there could be and how the business of fishing could be operated......

I didn't flop. I just called bullshit on the claim that the nationalization sky was falling. There are, of course, lesser degrees of government control, but no one else on this thread cares about such subtleties.