I dont get it

[actsnoblemartin]

whats with this racial quota crap with the left?

If the tea party were more black, they would be uncle toms.

You cant have both ways, dems.

You cant say, not enough blacks, your racist, (there is no quota to meet) or blacks are too stupid for joining

I dont like the left, its about emotion, not fact

[Sweetchuck]

Symbolism over substance, a fundamental tenant of liberalism.

[Noir]

Symbolism over substance, a fundamental tenant of liberalism.

I'd say symbolism plays a pretty big role on the right as well, for example the American flag and the Christian Cross. Both symbols, yet both generate substance well above their material worth with no basis in logic.

[Solar]

I'd say symbolism plays a pretty big role on the right as well, for example the American flag and the Christian Cross. Both symbols, yet both generate substance well above their material worth with no basis in logic.


That had to be the most ignorant statement I've yet to read on this forum, and I've read a lot of Agnaprostates crap.

The cross is a Religious icon, that knows no party, and the Flag is representative of many things, but to Veterans like myself, it represents those that sacrificed before me, so morons like you have the right to look stupid in public!

Remember, if you can read this, thank a teacher, but if you can reply, Thank a Vet!

[Noir]

That had to be the most ignorant statement I've yet to read on this forum, and I've read a lot of Agnaprostates crap.

The cross is a Religious icon, that knows no party, and the Flag is representative of many things, but to Veterans like myself, it represents those that sacrificed before me, so morons like you have the right to look stupid in public!

Remember, if you can read this, thank a teacher, but if you can reply, Thank a Vet!

What's your point?

I was merely making the observation that it's not only the left that are symbol driven, the right are too, terms like 'the Christian right' solidify that (though ofcourse they are those on the left that see symbols such as the Christian Cross aswell)

As for the Flag, I've said before how baffling it is, and I still find it so. But if you want to apply significance to it then fine, that doesn't mean that I have to respect it, nor do I.

[Solar]

What's your point?

I was merely making the observation that it's not only the left that are symbol driven, the right are too, terms like 'the Christian right' solidify that (though ofcourse they are those on the left that see symbols such as the Christian Cross aswell)

As for the Flag, I've said before how baffling it is, and I still find it so. But if you want to apply significance to it then fine, that doesn't mean that I have to respect it, nor do I.

The difference in you and I is, I fought for the Country that grants me these rights, you on the other hand, do not appreciate what has been given to you.

Typical liberal!

[Noir]

The difference in you and I is, I fought for the Country that grants me these rights, you on the other hand, do not appreciate what has been given to you.

Typical liberal!

Exactly, you fought for the right for people to burn the Flag in celebration of the fact that they can burn the flag.

That's the whole point, if you went to a country without those freedoms, say China, and started burning Chinese flags, you'd soon find you don't have that freedom.

There is something wonderfully ironic about those that are against flag burning, but that's of their choosing I guess.

In any odds, the point of my first post was, and still is, that both the left and right admire symbols as much as the other.

[Solar]

Exactly, you fought for the right for people to burn the Flag in celebration of the fact that they can burn the flag.

That's the whole point, if you went to a country without those freedoms, say China, and started burning Chinese flags, you'd soon find you don't have that freedom.

There is something wonderfully ironic about those that are against flag burning, but that's of their choosing I guess.

In any odds, the point of my first post was, and still is, that both the left and right admire symbols as much as the other.

Burning of the Flag is nothing more than showing disrespect to those that love their Country.
Beyond that, I don't get your point.

They are using an icon to insult people, if I were to burn an effigy of your parents, am I demonstrating my freedoms, or merely insulting you personally?

[Noir]

Burning of the Flag is nothing more than showing disrespect to those that love their Country.
Beyond that, I don't get your point.

They are using an icon to insult people, if I were to burn an effigy of your parents, am I demonstrating my freedoms, or merely insulting you personally?

How is it showing disrespect when by burning it you are protected by the very freedoms it represents? The flag itself is nothing more than a symbol.

And you have the right to do as you please, heck, if you want I can send you an extra large pic of my family and you can print & burn it. I will not wilt away with shame for being so disrespected.

As someone once said, leave symbols to the symbol-minded. Be they on the left or right of the political spectrum.

[Insein]

The difference in you and I is, I fought for the Country that grants me these rights, you on the other hand, do not appreciate what has been given to you.

Typical liberal!

You do know he's British right?

[Noir]

You do know he's British right?

Pssssssh, he will already have little regard for whatever I say, inform him i'ma eurofag and I'm as good as off his radar xD

[Solar]

How is it showing disrespect when by burning it you are protected by the very freedoms it represents? The flag itself is nothing more than a symbol.

And you have the right to do as you please, heck, if you want I can send you an extra large pic of my family and you can print & burn it. I will not wilt away with shame for being so disrespected.

As someone once said, leave symbols to the symbol-minded. Be they on the left or right of the political spectrum.


I was wondering how it's possible that someone stands for nothing, be it heritage or family, but now that Insein has enlightened me as to your genetic inability to take a stand on any issue, other than appeasement, I'll pass on this waste of time.

[Noir]

I was wondering how it's possible that someone stands for nothing, be it heritage or family, but now that Insein has enlightened me as to your genetic inability to take a stand on any issue, other than appeasement, I'll pass on this waste of time.

Lawl, oh well, sometimes you can't beat some good old fashioned prejudice (even better given how only a post before yours i made a joke about that very fact) xDDD

[Solar]

You do know he's British right?

Thanks Insein.
Funny how the English managed to help build our great Nation, solely based on avoiding the pitfalls of their entire historical existence.

They are a perfect example of what is wrong with Europe...

[Solar]

Lawl, oh well, sometimes you can't beat some good old fashioned prejudice (even better given how only a post before yours i made a joke about that very fact) xDDD

You see prejudice?
I prejudge you based on your lack of ethics.

Take a stand on something in life for a change, rather than sitting on the fence.

You Europeans are about to be overtaken by muscum, all because you can't muster the courage to take a stand.

Grow a set, my young appeasing friend.

[Noir]

You see prejudice?
I prejudge you based on your lack of ethics.

Take a stand on something in life for a change, rather than sitting on the fence.

You Europeans are about to be overtaken by muscum, all because you can't muster the courage to take a stand.

Grow a set, my young appeasing friend.

Then we are agreed you are prejudice.

And these prejudices are laughable, as I'm sure many on the board will attest to,

In this case, the flag is merely a symbol of the rights are freedoms in the Constitution, the flag itself is not the rights and freedoms of the constition (and ofcourse, the constitution says as much, within freedom of speech)

If you want to be offened when someone burns a flag, fine, you don't have the right not to be offend because you think a symbol is more important than the Constitution.

[jimnyc]

As for the Flag, I've said before how baffling it is, and I still find it so. But if you want to apply significance to it then fine, that doesn't mean that I have to respect it, nor do I.

Noir, there are many men and women, some on this very board, who have served honorably in the military. They knew they were defending our nation and know the long noted history of "Old Glory", and what she represents. The Flag as been waving in every war we've fought in and is not just a symbol, but also a dedication and remembrance to all the soldiers who have lost their lives defending the Flag and/or freedom.

I get what you're saying and am fully aware that it's legal, and that by doing any harm to it, it won't change its meaning. But 100% without a doubt it's disrespectful to those who have fought and died in the Flag's honor. I'm not sure if you feel this way towards all symbols, or just the USA Flag debate, but one should know the long storied history of our flag before saying it itself doesn't deserve respect, or that burning/ruining it doesn't change anything. IMO, anyone who does so is thumbing their noses at America, her way of life, her freedoms and our veterans.

It's a symbol, yes, but IMO also a living symbol.

And yes, I know that soldiers have fought for those very freedoms that allow people to desecrate the flag, but that doesn't make it right to do so.

Just my 2 cents!

[Solar]

Then we are agreed you are prejudice.

And these prejudices are laughable, as I'm sure many on the board will attest to,

In this case, the flag is merely a symbol of the rights are freedoms in the Constitution, the flag itself is not the rights and freedoms of the constition (and ofcourse, the constitution says as much, within freedom of speech)

If you want to be offened when someone burns a flag, fine, you don't have the right not to be offend because you think a symbol is more important than the Constitution.

Like I said earlier, it's sad you have nothing worth standing for.
Like jimnyc said, it is just a symbol, but one that means much to us as Americans.

Sad that Brits like you have nothing to be proud of, though there are many that are and it's kids like you that that will bring the Country to it's knees, merely through appeasement.

I'm guessing this stems from jealousy...

[Noir]

Noir, there are many men and women, some on this very board, who have served honorably in the military. They knew they were defending our nation and know the long noted history of "Old Glory", and what she represents. The Flag as been waving in every war we've fought in and is not just a symbol, but also a dedication and remembrance to all the soldiers who have lost their lives defending the Flag and/or freedom.

I get what you're saying and am fully aware that it's legal, and that by doing any harm to it, it won't change its meaning. But 100% without a doubt it's disrespectful to those who have fought and died in the Flag's honor. I'm not sure if you feel this way towards all symbols, or just the USA Flag debate, but one should know the long storied history of our flag before saying it itself doesn't deserve respect, or that burning/ruining it doesn't change anything. IMO, anyone who does so is thumbing their noses at America, her way of life, her freedoms and our veterans.

It's a symbol, yes, but IMO also a living symbol.

And yes, I know that soldiers have fought for those very freedoms that allow people to desecrate the flag, but that doesn't make it right to do so.

Just my 2 cents!

The part in bold, while trying to claim the flag is not *just* a symbol, goes on to describe it's, er, symbology

I feel the same way towards all symbols, they are lumps or iron and cloth, some of them I'll agree with, others I'll disagree, but at the end of the day they're no more than symbols.

Annnnnyways, this is all a major digression, the point of my first post, and it stands, is that all folks, left or right, rely on symbols.

[jimnyc]

The part in bold, while trying to claim the flag is not *just* a symbol, goes on to describe it's, er, symbology

I feel the same way towards all symbols, they are lumps or iron and cloth, some of them I'll agree with, others I'll disagree, but at the end of the day they're no more than symbols.

Annnnnyways, this is all a major digression, the point of my first post, and it stands, is that all folks, left or right, rely on symbols.

I agree with you for the most part, and your opening post. But we'll have to agree to disagree on the US Flag, which I see as MUCH more than just a "symbol". Same as our Constitution, I see it as one of the foundations of our great country, and alive and well.

[Noir]

Like I said earlier, it's sad you have nothing worth standing for.
Like jimnyc said, it is just a symbol, but one that means much to us as Americans.

Sad that Brits like you have nothing to be proud of, though there are many that are and it's kids like you that that will bring the Country to it's knees, merely through appeasement.

I'm guessing this stems from jealousy...

Naw, it's laughable that you think it's okay to claim I've nothing worth standing for.

And I know, bloody kids like me, With an interest in politics and all. I should be out, getting wasted and not giving a toss like the majority of my peers...

And I don't quite know what you think I'm jealous about, but given the rest of your post was tosh (other than the bit about the flag being a symbol, which was the point I was making when I first posted 'in' this thread) I'm inclined to think that is aswell.

[REDWHITEBLUE2]

You see prejudice?
I prejudge you based on your lack of ethics.

Take a stand on something in life for a change, rather than sitting on the fence.

You Europeans are about to be overtaken by muscum, all because you can't muster the courage to take a stand.

Grow a set, my young appeasing friend.
You have to remember Solar the English have been brain washed for decades to believe Socialism is the only way

[Noir]

You have to remember Solar the English have been brain washed for decades to believe Socialism is the only way

I'm not English.

And how exactly did you get from ke talking about the symbology of the American Flag to Socialism?

[Trigg]

whats with this racial quota crap with the left?

If the tea party were more black, they would be uncle toms.

You cant have both ways, dems.

You cant say, not enough blacks, your racist, (there is no quota to meet) or blacks are too stupid for joining

I dont like the left, its about emotion, not fact

meanwhile back on topic.

They're trying to say that everything the republicans stand on is biased against other races.

They KNOW that blacks and every other color and political party are represented at the rallies, but they can't admit that or they loose their argument.

They also KNOW that hispanics and blacks are against illegal immigration. Once again if they admit that than they can't scream that all republicans are racist for embracing our immigration laws.

[DragonStryk72]

Burning of the Flag is nothing more than showing disrespect to those that love their Country.
Beyond that, I don't get your point.

They are using an icon to insult people, if I were to burn an effigy of your parents, am I demonstrating my freedoms, or merely insulting you personally?

So, our forefathers didn't love their country? We're descended from flag burners.

Actually, all rhetoric aside, the race thing comes down to this: Dems believe that everyone not white is basically incapable of succeeding without government assistance. It's much the same as when I was Navy, and found out about the troubles with my knees. You had two groups, the people who thought I was malingering and assigned me extra work, and the people who thought i was an invalid. Oddly enough, I liked the people who thought I was malingering better, because at least they thought I was capable.

Dems suffer from chronic "good intentions" syndrome. They see the symptoms of the problems, and try to treat those, as opposed to treating the actual disease. They mean well, but they just don't get the idea that at some point, you have to let people succeed and fail on their own.