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Palin Rider
09-14-2010, 06:19 PM
The answer to this question is fairly simple, but it will probably surprise the hell out of you.

Most men don't want commitment because they can't afford it financially.

It's a simple fact of life, but nothing prevents the accumulation of money like a woman. Money spent on a woman is never an investment; it's an expense. A man who expects a financial return on that money is a fool.

Consider two hypothetical guys, Bob and Mark. They are roommates, both have just graduated from the same high school, and both have decided to wait a year before deciding whether to go to college. They both have jobs in the same electronics store, where they each make the same salary and each have $350 per month left over after paying all their bills.

There's where the similarity ends. Bob gets a girlfriend; Mark does not. Over the next year, Bob spends 20 hours a week and $350 a month on his girlfriend. Mark decides to take 20 hours a week and $350 a month and put it into a part-time business.

After that year, Bob's girlfriend dumps him, because she thinks he's a loser in a dead-end job with no ambition. Meanwhile Mark has been able to grow his business to a point where he can quit his electronics store job and make $90,000 per year working only 30 hours a week (because Mark's employees do most of the work). Who do you think Bob's girlfriend is seeing now? Yup, it's Mark.

Unfortunately, it doesn't end there. After their first trip to Europe, Mark becomes a Bob. He focuses most of his attention on his girlfriend, taking her on extravagant trips around the world. After a year, she leaves him for a guy she met in Aspen (a trip Mark paid for), telling Mark that somewhere he lost that entrepreneurial passion that attracted her to him in the first place. Naturally, Mark gets very depressed and loses what little interest he had left in his business. His money is spent, his passion is gone, and without the passion, he will never make the money back. He sees himself as just another failed entrepreneur getting a 2-year late start into college. This is a very common story of the "loser who could have been a multimillionaire."

How is a man to deal with this? The key is to find a female friend (not a girlfriend) who
1. Doesn't need money from you to pay for a lifestyle she wants but can't afford on her own,
2. Doesn't need to be somebody's wife or girlfriend to feel like she has stability and self-worth, and
3. Doesn't use you like an emotional dumpster every time she expects you to fix a problem.

Women like these are not common, but they're well worth holding out for.

Little-Acorn
09-14-2010, 06:50 PM
men don't want to commit to steady relationships

The men who are married (and that's a whole lot of them) might dispute this with you.

If they don't just ignore you.

Noir
09-14-2010, 06:51 PM
Well. That's a load of rubbish xD

Probably the 'richest' time of my life was when I lived with my last GF, we both worked hard and got plenty out of it, loads of hoidays, spending sprees ect and when we split we had a couple of hundred pound each in a bank account that we split, it's so much cheaper to live for two that it is one.

Pagan
09-14-2010, 07:27 PM
Simple -

Divorce and Child Support Laws

darin
09-14-2010, 07:49 PM
"Penguins mate for life. That makes sense. It's not like the guy will ever find a better-looking penguin."

I make what I make BECAUSE of my wife. She's an enabler for me. She enables me to focus on work. Now I make more than Mark AND....AND I have somebody to SHARE my life with.

Palin Rider
09-14-2010, 07:55 PM
Well. That's a load of rubbish xD

Probably the 'richest' time of my life was when I lived with my last GF, we both worked hard and got plenty out of it, loads of hoidays, spending sprees ect and when we split we had a couple of hundred pound each in a bank account that we split, it's so much cheaper to live for two that it is one.

I'm not saying that you can't spend time together with a female friend and (if you're both so inclined) have lots of sex. Both of the above activities are all well and good.

I'm just saying that it's a mistake to get into a "serious" relationship until you have a secure financial position.

Noir
09-14-2010, 07:57 PM
I'm not saying that you can't spend time together with a female friend and (if you're both so inclined) have lots of sex. Both of the above activities are all well and good.

I'm just saying that it's a mistake to get into a "serious" relationship until you have a secure financial position.


I know what you said, and it's total tosh. Kthanks.

Edit- Also, the idea that you don't want to be 'serious' with someone, but you would want to have sex is personally sickening, but however you want to live your life.

Palin Rider
09-14-2010, 07:57 PM
men don't want to commit to steady relationships

The men who are married (and that's a whole lot of them) might dispute this with you.

The ones who are happy with their marriages might. Aren't they an endangered species?

Pagan
09-14-2010, 08:00 PM
I'm not saying that you can't spend time together with a female friend and (if you're both so inclined) have lots of sex. Both of the above activities are all well and good.

I'm just saying that it's a mistake to get into a "serious" relationship until you have a secure financial position.

It's called put your assets into a trust, then "if" you do get married your major assets like home, investments, etc. are protected. You also further protect yourself with a prenuptial agreement, but those have been challenged and have been broken depending on how good of a lawyer is hired. Trusts really are the only way to go to protect yourself

Palin Rider
09-14-2010, 08:15 PM
It's called put your assets into a trust, then "if" you do get married your major assets like home, investments, etc. are protected. You also further protect yourself with a prenuptial agreement, but those have been challenged and have been broken depending on how good of a lawyer is hired. Trusts really are the only way to go to protect yourself

That's an excellent way to do it.

darin
09-14-2010, 08:27 PM
Or...focus more on loving your wife than making dollars. ;)

Most folks I know love very very very selfishly.

Pagan
09-14-2010, 08:55 PM
Or...focus more on loving your wife than making dollars. ;)

Most folks I know love very very very selfishly.

Really, well some call it facing reality and not getting screwed by the system and loosing everything they have then have to continue paying for decades to come
Divorce rate -
According to enrichment journal on the divorce rate in America:
The divorce rate in America for first marriage is 41%
The divorce rate in America for second marriage is 60%
The divorce rate in America for third marriage is 73%


Women Men
Under 20 years old 27.6% 11.7%
20 to 24 years old 36.6% 38.8%
25 to 29 years old 16.4% 22.3%
30 to 34 years old 8.5% 11.6%
35 to 39 years old 5.1% 6.5%

chloe
09-14-2010, 09:01 PM
I don't think men or women are forced to commit nowadays anyway so it shouldn't be a problem.:salute:

Pagan
09-14-2010, 09:05 PM
I don't think men or women are forced to commit nowadays anyway so it shouldn't be a problem.:salute:

I say it's a society raised on Disney Fairytale's with a meet someone, fall in love and live happily ever after. Marriage and relationships are work, but it's work that one loves. Then there's the court system that still to this day screws over the male to an obscene level. I was once married, been single now for about 15 years now and I very highly doubt I'll ever marry

Little-Acorn
09-14-2010, 09:07 PM
The ones who are happy with their marriages might. Aren't they an endangered species?

I keep forgetting.

Some people believe that, if it's not on the front page, or on Oprah, it doesn't exist.

The idea that such men might actually be the majority, is incomprehensible to them.

My sympathies. :slap:

--------------------------------------

P.S. The ones who are unhappy in their marriages, still made the commitment too.

chloe
09-14-2010, 09:09 PM
I say it's a society raised on Disney Fairytale's with a meet someone, fall in love and live happily ever after. Marriage and relationships are work, but it's work that one loves. Then there's the court system that still to this day screws over the male to an obscene level. I was once married, been single now for about 15 years now and I very highly doubt I'll ever marry


Yeah I'm with you. If I ever decide to make a serious commitment there won't be a mariage contract, besides the person I would be interested in is because we share so much commonalities in our way of thinking and neither of us needs much in life to be happy. I like things simple.

Pagan
09-14-2010, 09:35 PM
Yeah I'm with you. If I ever decide to make a serious commitment there won't be a mariage contract, besides the person I would be interested in is because we share so much commonalities in our way of thinking and neither of us needs much in life to be happy. I like things simple.

In all honesty the strongest and longest relationships I've seen have been with no contract of marriage. But I do say my best friends (who btw I introduced them) have been married for 30 years, but that is very, very unique these days.

DragonStryk72
09-15-2010, 12:26 AM
The answer to this question is fairly simple, but it will probably surprise the hell out of you.

Most men don't want commitment because they can't afford it financially.

It's a simple fact of life, but nothing prevents the accumulation of money like a woman. Money spent on a woman is never an investment; it's an expense. A man who expects a financial return on that money is a fool.

Consider two hypothetical guys, Bob and Mark. They are roommates, both have just graduated from the same high school, and both have decided to wait a year before deciding whether to go to college. They both have jobs in the same electronics store, where they each make the same salary and each have $350 per month left over after paying all their bills.

There's where the similarity ends. Bob gets a girlfriend; Mark does not. Over the next year, Bob spends 20 hours a week and $350 a month on his girlfriend. Mark decides to take 20 hours a week and $350 a month and put it into a part-time business.

After that year, Bob's girlfriend dumps him, because she thinks he's a loser in a dead-end job with no ambition. Meanwhile Mark has been able to grow his business to a point where he can quit his electronics store job and make $90,000 per year working only 30 hours a week (because Mark's employees do most of the work). Who do you think Bob's girlfriend is seeing now? Yup, it's Mark.

Unfortunately, it doesn't end there. After their first trip to Europe, Mark becomes a Bob. He focuses most of his attention on his girlfriend, taking her on extravagant trips around the world. After a year, she leaves him for a guy she met in Aspen (a trip Mark paid for), telling Mark that somewhere he lost that entrepreneurial passion that attracted her to him in the first place. Naturally, Mark gets very depressed and loses what little interest he had left in his business. His money is spent, his passion is gone, and without the passion, he will never make the money back. He sees himself as just another failed entrepreneur getting a 2-year late start into college. This is a very common story of the "loser who could have been a multimillionaire."

How is a man to deal with this? The key is to find a female friend (not a girlfriend) who
1. Doesn't need money from you to pay for a lifestyle she wants but can't afford on her own,
2. Doesn't need to be somebody's wife or girlfriend to feel like she has stability and self-worth, and
3. Doesn't use you like an emotional dumpster every time she expects you to fix a problem.

Women like these are not common, but they're well worth holding out for.

Wow, the assumptions. $350 a month, and he just spends every dime out his ass, while in no way looking to move up, save anything, or find a better job? That's Bob's fault, and has nothing to do with the girl. And don't give me some horseshit about how much it costs to go on a date. There a plenty of romantic things you can do that do not cost money: Go to the park, go to see local street performers, cuddle up on the couch with a couple of good books or a movie, etc.. Your analogy is horridly flimsy.

Then there's the "almost all women are money grubbers who only care about your bank account". That's the woman you used, she only left cause there wasn't enough money, and only hooks up with Mark cause he has money. So you literally called almost all women in the world money grubbing whores.

You at no point talk about how Bob or Mark act as people, cause clearly that's different, too. Mark has a plan, a solid one that he works toward (He likely has run out of friends and such since he does nothing but work and put money away, but he has a plan.). Bob has no plan, and not even any short term goals for self-improvement, just sits there in his paycheck to paycheck surviving, and likely bemoaning his poverty. Yeah, that's proof of stuff. That's why no one ever marries plumbers, public defenders, teachers, or any of the other folks out there that have jobs that pay little.


The ones who are happy with their marriages might. Aren't they an endangered species?

Not according to both my friend Brian, and my buddy John, both of whom are happy in their marriages.

Pagan
09-15-2010, 04:47 AM
Not according to both my friend Brian, and my buddy John, both of whom are happy in their marriages.

According to the statistics they are a rarity

darin
09-15-2010, 07:50 AM
Some call what 'facing reality'?

Now - don't get me wrong - the oppression of men, especially fathers, by sexist court rulings and beyond-biased "Support" policy/payments is EVIL.

Until custodial parents must 'account' for every dollar they steal from the non-custodial parent, men will still suffer unduly.


Child support payment should be: "HALF the price difference between a 1 bedroom place and a (insert more for more kids)...nominal increases for half the increased utilities costs. Half the increased food bill - by establishing baselines and adjusting quarterly....etc...off the top of my head.

Women often get a free ride when it comes to raising kids - and they ABSOLUTELY Have the ONLY SAY when it comes to carrying the child they willingly conceive w/ the father.

:(



Really, well some call it facing reality and not getting screwed by the system and loosing everything they have then have to continue paying for decades to come
Divorce rate -
According to enrichment journal on the divorce rate in America:
The divorce rate in America for first marriage is 41%
The divorce rate in America for second marriage is 60%
The divorce rate in America for third marriage is 73%


Women Men
Under 20 years old 27.6% 11.7%
20 to 24 years old 36.6% 38.8%
25 to 29 years old 16.4% 22.3%
30 to 34 years old 8.5% 11.6%
35 to 39 years old 5.1% 6.5%

chloe
09-15-2010, 10:08 AM
Some call what 'facing reality'?

Now - don't get me wrong - the oppression of men, especially fathers, by sexist court rulings and beyond-biased "Support" policy/payments is EVIL.

Until custodial parents must 'account' for every dollar they steal from the non-custodial parent, men will still suffer unduly.


Child support payment should be: "HALF the price difference between a 1 bedroom place and a (insert more for more kids)...nominal increases for half the increased utilities costs. Half the increased food bill - by establishing baselines and adjusting quarterly....etc...off the top of my head.

Women often get a free ride when it comes to raising kids - and they ABSOLUTELY Have the ONLY SAY when it comes to carrying the child they willingly conceive w/ the father.

:(

I agree the courts are sexist against men, however it has not been a free ride for me raising two daughters alone on my income, my ex husband has not paid child support entering year #2 , I would be happy for him to buy our kids clothes, or pay the school fees, or help on the over $200 a month I pay from my paycheck on health care dental and vision insurance for them. But while I raised our kids alone he got engaged several times and lived with other women and helped raise there kids. I have never pursued him in court and I keep relations friendly with his family for our kids. I can tell you it's no free ride raising children but I am glad I got to and although the money would be nice having the custody of the kids is nicer. I also encouraged him to see our kids whenever he wanted to and he hardly ever took initiative. It's not a good experience divorce and I would have tried to work the marriage out but he didnt want to, he wanted to be single and date alot of women. I realize now that I made bad choices and I will pay for those choices the rest of my life, but the good part is our kids. I will never marry again that's for sure !

PostmodernProphet
09-15-2010, 10:17 AM
I have trouble understanding this thread.....
I've been married for 34 years
my parents were married for 61 years
my grandparents (mother's side) were married for 65 years...(paternal grandfather died of a heart attack at age 58 or I'm sure they would have reached high numbers as well)
of the five couples we associate with most frequently, all have been married for 30 years or longer....

so, I guess I don't know who these men are that don't want steady relationships....

chloe
09-15-2010, 10:37 AM
I have trouble understanding this thread.....
I've been married for 34 years
my parents were married for 61 years
my grandparents (mother's side) were married for 65 years...(paternal grandfather died of a heart attack at age 58 or I'm sure they would have reached high numbers as well)
of the five couples we associate with most frequently, all have been married for 30 years or longer....

so, I guess I don't know who these men are that don't want steady relationships....

That's really neat PMP:salute: . When I was married I enjoyed it but I guess I was a real fool, I mean I was all involved with our babies and taking care of my husbands grandma she lived with us. In retrospect I neglected my husband and he strayed and had alot of affairs so I take responsibility for that but we could have gone to marriage counseling he didnt want to so that was his choice. Raising the kids alone has not been easy, and I don't think any single custodial parent whether its a man or a woman would say it was a free ride.

Little-Acorn
09-15-2010, 11:41 AM
the oppression of men, especially fathers, by sexist court rulings and beyond-biased "Support" policy/payments is EVIL.


Some courts do that, others don't. Might also vary by state.

My first wife strayed and there were other problems (not minor), so I let her go. The court ruled that my son live mostly with me. I still paid alimony, and some child support since he occasionally went to her. The difference was due mainly to my higher income. Looking back, I could not find a lot of fault with that, other then the fact that it was not based at all on past marital behavior. The theory is, it is based on the good of the child. Calif is a no-fault-divorce state.

There is no "good" divorce settlement.

Back to the subject:
The idea that men don't want to make the commitment, is mostly false. It makes this thread a non-starter. GIGO.

Pagan
09-15-2010, 12:30 PM
I agree the courts are sexist against men, however it has not been a free ride for me raising two daughters alone on my income, my ex husband has not paid child support entering year #2 , I would be happy for him to buy our kids clothes, or pay the school fees, or help on the over $200 a month I pay from my paycheck on health care dental and vision insurance for them. But while I raised our kids alone he got engaged several times and lived with other women and helped raise there kids. I have never pursued him in court and I keep relations friendly with his family for our kids. I can tell you it's no free ride raising children but I am glad I got to and although the money would be nice having the custody of the kids is nicer. I also encouraged him to see our kids whenever he wanted to and he hardly ever took initiative. It's not a good experience divorce and I would have tried to work the marriage out but he didnt want to, he wanted to be single and date alot of women. I realize now that I made bad choices and I will pay for those choices the rest of my life, but the good part is our kids. I will never marry again that's for sure !

My hat goes off to you, you other than my Step Mother and one other friend of mine are the only Women who I know of who put their kids first. Both of them also didn't get support from the fathers but they never played games and knew the kids needed to have their father in their lives. But that is such a rarity these days and numerous fathers I know have gotten the shaft and the kids are nothing more than an income source for the mother, the kids are the ones who pay.

I've seen first hand fathers who's Child Support is based on "potential income" instead of what they make. The Child Support in times is actually more than they actually earn as a whole, then they are denied licenses which further destroy's their ability to earn money. Then there is zero accountability for any of the funds and the Woman use the money for themselves and nothing goes to the children.

Anyway I can rant on all day about what I've seen, but that only serves to give me ulcers.


Some courts do that, others don't. Might also vary by state.

My first wife strayed and there were other problems (not minor), so I let her go. The court ruled that my son live mostly with me. I still paid alimony, and some child support since he occasionally went to her. The difference was due mainly to my higher income. Looking back, I could not find a lot of fault with that, other then the fact that it was not based at all on past marital behavior. The theory is, it is based on the good of the child. Calif is a no-fault-divorce state.

There is no "good" divorce settlement.

Back to the subject:
The idea that men don't want to make the commitment, is mostly false. It makes this thread a non-starter. GIGO.

You're lucky, very lucky. I do know that if one has to go through a Divorce California is probably the best and most fair State to do it.

Back to the subject of "men don't want to make the commitment", yes you could say it's false. I say we're forced to not make a commitment due to the way the radical feminists have made anyone with a penis the enemy.

Trigg
09-15-2010, 05:03 PM
According to the statistics they are a rarity

If over half of marriages don't end in divorce that means that happy marriages are NOT a rarity.

PostmodernProphet
09-15-2010, 05:38 PM
If over half of marriages don't end in divorce that means that happy marriages are NOT a rarity.

wait a minute....did you say we were supposed to be happy too?.....

Trigg
09-15-2010, 05:45 PM
wait a minute....did you say we were supposed to be happy too?.....

yep, that's the general idea.:thumb:

Hubby and I have been married over 20 years, my parents and in-laws are still married. Most of our friends and family members have never been divorced.

Divorce is all too common, I'll agree. But happy long-term marriages are NOT a rarity.

Abbey
09-18-2010, 10:59 PM
Ahem:
My marriage- almost 21 years
My parents- 53, and would be longer if my mom hadn't passed
My in laws- 52, also stopped only by a death
Brother #1- 30 years
Brother #2- 28 years
BIL #1- 27 years
BIL#2- 7 years
Best friend- 25 years
Other good friend- 21 years
Other good friend- 19 years

All of these are 1st marriages, and from what I can see, happy.

Palin Rider
09-19-2010, 09:21 PM
Since when did a handful of people someone knows become a statistically representative sample?

Noir
09-19-2010, 09:32 PM
Since when did a handful of people someone knows become a statistically representative sample?

Around the same time you wrote an OP that included a hypothetical reality which was sublimely ridiculous.

Palin Rider
09-19-2010, 09:40 PM
Around the same time you wrote an OP that included a hypothetical reality which was sublimely ridiculous.

Disagreeing with a hypothetical scenario is still no excuse for BS. :no:

Noir
09-19-2010, 09:47 PM
Disagreeing with a hypothetical scenario is still no excuse for BS. :no:

So someones personal life experiences are BS and your totally made up hypothetical story isn't? :laugh:

Palin Rider
09-19-2010, 10:02 PM
So someones personal life experiences are BS and your totally made up hypothetical story isn't? :laugh:

Not quite: what's BS is to say "4 out of 5 people I know are happy, therefore 4 out of 5 people in the US/UK/world must be happy." (It's what statisticians call an "invalid sample.")

Got it? :D

Noir
09-19-2010, 10:08 PM
Not quite: what's BS is to say "4 out of 5 people I know are happy, therefore 4 out of 5 people in the US/UK/world must be happy." (It's what statisticians call an "invalid sample.")

Got it? :D

Yep.
And that's, er, nothing to do with what we were talking about.
But whatever, I'm tired of this ping-pong, you either know what I was saying and won't admit it, or just can't see how silly you calling someone else out for BS is after that OP. Either way this is going nowhere fast. Laters.

cadet
09-19-2010, 10:39 PM
Ahem:
My marriage- almost 21 years
My parents- 53, and would be longer if my mom hadn't passed
My in laws- 52, also stopped only by a death
Brother #1- 30 years
Brother #2- 28 years
BIL #1- 27 years
BIL#2- 7 years
Best friend- 25 years
Other good friend- 21 years
Other good friend- 19 years

All of these are 1st marriages, and from what I can see, happy.

All i have to say is this, marriage is a commetment. when you stand on the alter, do you say
"Till you start to have problems."

Or is it more like
"Till death due you part"

When did the meaning change? did english suddenly start to switch definitions?

If you ask me, people should be more like the above quote and stay together. You made your promise, if you don't like the person anymore, to bad. Make sure to tell your kids to be absolutally certain that they love the person they're about to marry.

Yeah, they're gonna have problems, they'll also yell at eachother, but they're also gonna be able to share some of the happiest moments together.

And just to get it back on topic. Yes, girls cost ALOT. Expecially if your only dating them. Trust me.

DragonStryk72
09-20-2010, 02:36 AM
Not quite: what's BS is to say "4 out of 5 people I know are happy, therefore 4 out of 5 people in the US/UK/world must be happy." (It's what statisticians call an "invalid sample.")

Got it? :D


Alright, and where's your valid sample? Your OP? I think not.


All i have to say is this, marriage is a commetment. when you stand on the alter, do you say
"Till you start to have problems."

Or is it more like
"Till death due you part"

When did the meaning change? did english suddenly start to switch definitions?

If you ask me, people should be more like the above quote and stay together. You made your promise, if you don't like the person anymore, to bad. Make sure to tell your kids to be absolutally certain that they love the person they're about to marry.

Yeah, they're gonna have problems, they'll also yell at eachother, but they're also gonna be able to share some of the happiest moments together.

And just to get it back on topic. Yes, girls cost ALOT. Expecially if your only dating them. Trust me.

I liked how they said it in License to Wed, when the parents are talking about their marriage to their daughter. They admit that their marriage is happy, but they've had hard times, and even state that years 17-18 were like something out of the Exorcist.

The big problem is not marriage, but the perception of what marriage is like.

PostmodernProphet
09-20-2010, 08:13 AM
Not quite: what's BS is to say "4 out of 5 people I know are happy, therefore 4 out of 5 people in the US/UK/world must be happy." (It's what statisticians call an "invalid sample.")

Got it? :D

however, your statistics show that 59% of marriages don't end in divorce......that means we aren't as much of a rarity as you'd have us think.......not only that, but 40% of the folks who got it wrong the first time get it right the second.......

Trigg
09-20-2010, 04:34 PM
however, your statistics show that 59% of marriages don't end in divorce......that means we aren't as much of a rarity as you'd have us think.......not only that, but 40% of the folks who got it wrong the first time get it right the second.......

I pointed that out on the 2nd page, lets see if he acknowledges it this time.

Palin Rider
09-20-2010, 04:47 PM
Alright, and where's your valid sample? Your OP? I think not.

I didn't need a sample, because I never made a statistical claim.


however, your statistics show that 59% of marriages don't end in divorce..
Those were Pagan's statistics, not mine.

Pagan
09-20-2010, 05:03 PM
I didn't need a sample, because I never made a statistical claim.


Those were Pagan's statistics, not mine.

I got those figures of of this website -
http://www.divorcerate.org/

But the "official" rate is 49% according to the CDC

Marriage rate: 7.1 per 1,000 total population
Divorce rate: 3.5 per 1,000 population (44 reporting States and D.C.)

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/divorce.htm

PostmodernProphet
09-20-2010, 06:58 PM
I pointed that out on the 2nd page, lets see if he acknowledges it this time.

nope......

PostmodernProphet
09-20-2010, 07:00 PM
Those were Pagan's statistics, not mine.

sorry....you're hard to tell apart....

Palin Rider
09-20-2010, 07:08 PM
sorry....you're hard to tell apart....
No worries, avatar4321.

revelarts
09-20-2010, 07:44 PM
The answer to this question is fairly simple, but it will probably surprise the hell out of you.

Most men don't want commitment because they can't afford it financially.

It's a simple fact of life, but nothing prevents the accumulation of money like a woman. Money spent on a woman is never an investment; it's an expense. A man who expects a financial return on that money is a fool.

Consider two hypothetical guys, Bob and Mark. They are roommates, both have just graduated from the same high school, and both have decided to wait a year before deciding whether to go to college. They both have jobs in the same electronics store, where they each make the same salary and each have $350 per month left over after paying all their bills.

There's where the similarity ends. Bob gets a girlfriend; Mark does not. Over the next year, Bob spends 20 hours a week and $350 a month on his girlfriend. Mark decides to take 20 hours a week and $350 a month and put it into a part-time business.

After that year, Bob's girlfriend dumps him, because she thinks he's a loser in a dead-end job with no ambition. Meanwhile Mark has been able to grow his business to a point where he can quit his electronics store job and make $90,000 per year working only 30 hours a week (because Mark's employees do most of the work). Who do you think Bob's girlfriend is seeing now? Yup, it's Mark.

Unfortunately, it doesn't end there. After their first trip to Europe, Mark becomes a Bob. He focuses most of his attention on his girlfriend, taking her on extravagant trips around the world. After a year, she leaves him for a guy she met in Aspen (a trip Mark paid for), telling Mark that somewhere he lost that entrepreneurial passion that attracted her to him in the first place. Naturally, Mark gets very depressed and loses what little interest he had left in his business. His money is spent, his passion is gone, and without the passion, he will never make the money back. He sees himself as just another failed entrepreneur getting a 2-year late start into college. This is a very common story of the "loser who could have been a multimillionaire."

How is a man to deal with this? The key is to find a female friend (not a girlfriend) who
1. Doesn't need money from you to pay for a lifestyle she wants but can't afford on her own,
2. Doesn't need to be somebody's wife or girlfriend to feel like she has stability and self-worth, and
3. Doesn't use you like an emotional dumpster every time she expects you to fix a problem.

Women like these are not common, but they're well worth holding out for.

"Most men don't want commitment because they can't afford it financially. "?

So where exactly did you get this? Did you just make it up?
I think mine is a bit simpler.

Because men are sometimes selfish dogs and don't want the responsibility even if they can afford it.


Imagine that your rich and have a neighbor that owns a cow and you can invite the cow over and get free milk anytime you want. Why would you buy the cow?

(Sorry ladies for the cow analogy)

Sometimes it just plain idea of being "tied down" to 1 woman seems stifling.


Um what about she's got 3 kids, that stopped me from continuing to date one girl. That was to much for me.

DragonStryk72
09-20-2010, 09:17 PM
I didn't need a sample, because I never made a statistical claim.


Those were Pagan's statistics, not mine.

so what you're saying is you don't have the sack for an actual debate

DragonStryk72
09-20-2010, 09:25 PM
"Most men don't want commitment because they can't afford it financially. "?

So where exactly did you get this? Did you just make it up?
I think mine is a bit simpler.

Because men are sometimes selfish dogs and don't want the responsibility even if they can afford it.


Imagine that your rich and have a neighbor that owns a cow and you can invite the cow over and get free milk anytime you want. Why would you buy the cow?

(Sorry ladies for the cow analogy)

Sometimes it just plain idea of being "tied down" to 1 woman seems stifling.


Um what about she's got 3 kids, that stopped me from continuing to date one girl. That was to much for me.

See, the thing is, I don't mind the guys who don't want to get married, that's perfectly. I do want to be married, I want just one woman, and that's perfectly fine as well.

However, I never post threads attacking the bachelor lifestyle, I just leave them to it. My problem is threads like this, where some yahoo jumps up and decides for everybody what men think. Most men get married, most women get married, and yes, there are times when that's a bad choice, such as when you're the kind of guy who doesn't understand or want a committed relationship.

They go on about biological impulses, or finance, but they completely miss what a marriage is really about. Is it more difficult if your finances suck? Of course, just like it is more difficult to get to work when your car breaks down. It doesn't mean you need to quit your job, just that it is not as easy as it once was, and you'll need to make some adjustments.

PostmodernProphet
09-20-2010, 09:25 PM
Imagine that your rich and have a neighbor that owns a cow and you can invite the cow over and get free milk anytime you want. Why would you buy the cow?


having grown up on a farm there are few things I recall that you may want to consider
.....cows never come when you invite them, you have to chase them in from the field....
.....you have to milk a cow regularly, or she goes dry....
.....cows eat a lot.....
.....you never know who else has milked the cow.....
.....no matter how often you milk them, cows never really put any effort into it, they just stand there, chewing their cud...
....and never once has a cow turned and said, "was it good for you?".........

Palin Rider
09-20-2010, 11:12 PM
so what you're saying is you don't have the sack for an actual debate

Don't expect people to defend points they didn't make. Only some yahoo would make such a stupid mistake.

Trigg
09-21-2010, 03:28 PM
I got those figures of of this website -
http://www.divorcerate.org/

But the "official" rate is 49% according to the CDC

Marriage rate: 7.1 per 1,000 total population
Divorce rate: 3.5 per 1,000 population (44 reporting States and D.C.)

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/divorce.htm

between 51 and 59% of first marriages DO NOT end in divorce. You realize that those statistics prove that longterm marriages are NOT a rarity, as you previously claimed.

DragonStryk72
09-21-2010, 05:51 PM
Don't expect people to defend points they didn't make. Only some yahoo would make such a stupid mistake.

Well, let's look at this: You won't really back up your own OP, admonish people for posting actual statistics while refusing to put up any yourself, and the only responses you do give are dodges. That's all behavior of someone who doesn't have the sack for a real debate.

Palin Rider
09-21-2010, 06:02 PM
Well, let's look at this: You won't really back up your own OP,
My OP is my own opinion: I didn't try to present it as anything else. What kind of "backup" were you expecting?


admonish people for posting actual statistics while refusing to put up any yourself
Total falsehood. Show me where I admonished anyone.


and the only responses you do give are dodges. That's all behavior of someone who doesn't have the sack for a real debate.
And these quotes are all great examples of trolling.

Pagan
09-21-2010, 07:00 PM
between 51 and 59% of first marriages DO NOT end in divorce. You realize that those statistics prove that longterm marriages are NOT a rarity, as you previously claimed.

If one would factor in those not getting married at all, I say it's rather pathetic.

I don't have the stat's but I believe it's safe to say that those who live in rural small community's the divorce rate is down and the major population areas it's through the roof. Again, no stat's but I believe that's a reasonable estimation.

Trigg
09-21-2010, 08:30 PM
If one would factor in those not getting married at all, I say it's rather pathetic.

I don't have the stats but I believe it's safe to say that those who live in rural small community's the divorce rate is down and the major population areas it's through the roof. Again, no stats but I believe that's a reasonable estimation.

You have no stats to back you up. You believe, you think??????? :laugh:


51-59% of marriages DO NOT END IN DIVORCE, and YOU think that's pathetic?????

You can't factor in hypothetical "people who never got married" :lame2:

You also have no stats for rural vs metropolitan. :laugh2: Good lord come up with an argument or give up. You are wrong. Marriage is alive and well, your stats back it up.

Pagan
09-21-2010, 10:04 PM
You have no stats to back you up. You believe, you think??????? :laugh:

Maybe that's why I stated that I don't have stat's to back it which would be called a guess numbnutts :lame2:



51-59% of marriages DO NOT END IN DIVORCE, and YOU think that's pathetic?????

Government stat's show 49.2% end in divorce, yes I say that's pathetic. You think it's great ? http://www.rejecttheherd.net/sites/rejecttheherd.net/files/smileys/hydrant.gif


You can't factor in hypothetical "people who never got married" :lame2:

You also have no stats for rural vs metropolitan. :laugh2: Good lord come up with an argument or give up. You are wrong. Marriage is alive and well, your stats back it up.

Maybe that's why I stated that I don't have stat's for I haven't found them ya think, it's called a guess fucktard :lame2:

Give me a break http://www.rejecttheherd.net/sites/rejecttheherd.net/files/smileys/rub.gif

DragonStryk72
09-22-2010, 05:03 AM
My OP is my own opinion: I didn't try to present it as anything else. What kind of "backup" were you expecting?


Total falsehood. Show me where I admonished anyone.


And these quotes are all great examples of trolling.

You keep poking at Pagan's stats, you've been doing it the whole time. And if it's just your opinion, then why in the hell did you post it in a debate forum with being ready for a debate on it?

If you just wanted to post and walk away, then do so. Otherwise, start answering with actual answers, and not this garbage you keep going with.

DragonStryk72
09-22-2010, 05:07 AM
Maybe that's why I stated that I don't have stat's to back it which would be called a guess numbnutts :lame2:

Government stat's show 49.2% end in divorce, yes I say that's pathetic. You think it's great ? http://www.rejecttheherd.net/sites/rejecttheherd.net/files/smileys/hydrant.gif


It's not great, but it's not the end of marriage either. Yes, people who have no business getting married in the first are likely going to fail in their marriages, but the OP threw out the half-assed opinion that the majority of men don't want to commit, which is clearly made incorrect by those stats.

Nukeman
09-22-2010, 08:26 AM
According to the statistics they are a rarity
You were proven wrong onthis by YOUR OWN STATS!!!! IT is not a rarity!!!

If one would factor in those not getting married at all, I say it's rather pathetic.

I don't have the stat's but I believe it's safe to say that those who live in rural small community's the divorce rate is down and the major population areas it's through the roof. Again, no stat's but I believe that's a reasonable estimation.The point trigg was making to you is that your pulling information out of your ass and attempting to present it as pertinent information which it is not!!!! Why would you factor in percieved people NOT getting married in a thread about marriage/divorce rates!!! Kind of pathetic isn't it????


Maybe that's why I stated that I don't have stat's to back it which would be called a guess numbnutts :lame2:




Government stat's show 49.2% end in divorce, yes I say that's pathetic. You think it's great ? http://www.rejecttheherd.net/sites/rejecttheherd.net/files/smileys/hydrant.gif



Maybe that's why I stated that I don't have stat's for I haven't found them ya think, it's called a guess fucktard :lame2:

Give me a break http://www.rejecttheherd.net/sites/rejecttheherd.net/files/smileys/rub.gifWhy do YOU feel the need to call Trigg names??? did she use any colorful language towards YOU??? I didn't see any and when you join a new board maybe you should get to know the people on the board before coming in acting like a complete fucking idiot and talking down to members who have been on here a long time. Maybe if you weren't so biased because of your own failing in marriage you wouldn't be such an asshole!!!! Than again maybe your jsut a jerkoff thats gets his kicks out of calling others names just for the fun of it... Fucking assmunch!!!!!!!!

Palin Rider
09-22-2010, 02:59 PM
You keep poking at Pagan's stats, you've been doing it the whole time.

I said "show me where." Clearly you can't, because I haven't been doing what you accused me of.


And if it's just your opinion, then why in the hell did you post it in a debate forum with being ready for a debate on it?
Do you see anybody "debating" here, with 95% of the threads polluted with rightwing spam? I sure as hell don't. :laugh:


If you just wanted to post and walk away, then do so. Otherwise, start answering with actual answers, and not this garbage you keep going with.

So do you have an actual question? You need one of those for an actual answer. :poke:

Abbey
09-24-2010, 02:33 PM
Not quite: what's BS is to say "4 out of 5 people I know are happy, therefore 4 out of 5 people in the US/UK/world must be happy." (It's what statisticians call an "invalid sample.")

Got it? :D

Show me where someone said one equates with the other.

Sweetchuck
09-24-2010, 10:28 PM
Maybe they just like uncommitted sex.

And what's wrong with that?

Noir
09-24-2010, 10:47 PM
Also, as an asides, why is it men and not women that are afraid to commit as the topic title, wrongly, suggests?

Pagan
09-24-2010, 10:49 PM
Maybe they just like uncommitted sex.

And what's wrong with that?

Same goes for Women

Sweetchuck
09-24-2010, 10:50 PM
Also, as an asides, why is it men and not women that are afraid to commit as the topic title, wrongly, suggests?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZyDEhxVFGU&feature=related

Palin Rider
09-29-2010, 10:40 PM
Show me where someone said one equates with the other.

I never claimed someone did. I was making an analogy to Noir's argument that, just because he knows people who are counterexamples to my theory, the whole theory must be wrong.