View Full Version : Abso, I have questions about the Muslim beliefs
chloe
09-18-2010, 10:46 PM
Can you answer them?
Run abso, in the words of admiral Ackbar; it's a trap! :laugh:
Can you answer them?
i will try, whats your questions.
chloe
09-19-2010, 09:20 AM
i will try, whats your questions.
I was driving in my car listening to the radio, and some christian lady was saying how God allows things to happen, she said God allowed 9/11 to happen in her opinion to teach christians a stronger understanding of forgiveness.
So then I started wondering what Muslims think about compassion and loving your neighbor and stuff because I have no idea what they teach.
So if praise be all to Allah, and Alllah is in control of everything then when muslims are mad at america or other countries for what they percieve as invading there country then are they also blaming Allah for allowing it to happen?
Do muslims think Allah allows bad things to happen?
Also does the Koran have the ten commandments?<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
I was driving in my car listening to the radio, and some christian lady was saying how God allows things to happen, she said God allowed 9/11 to happen in her opinion to teach christians a stronger understanding of forgiveness.
So then I started wondering what Muslims think about compassion and loving your neighbor and stuff because I have no idea what they teach.
So if praise be all to Allah, and Alllah is in control of everything then when muslims are mad at america or other countries for what they percieve as invading there country then are they also blaming Allah for allowing it to happen?
Do muslims think Allah allows bad things to happen?
Also does the Koran have the ten commandments?<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
No, muslims doesnt blame Allah for anything, as our religion teaches us, that everything that happens in the world have a reason and we should learn about it, we cant blame Allah for anything that happens to us.
if a car accident happened, its either because one of the drivers was careless or both were driving in a stupid way, but we just cant say that Allah allowed that car accident to happen, right ?
when USA invaded iraq, we didnt say that Allah allowed that to happen, we can just blame the american adminstration for their greed in petrol, when american soliders raped young iraqi woman and when blackwater agents went in killing spree in baghdad we never blamed Allah for allowing it to happen, we just blamed USA for allowing it to happen.
who blames Allah is someone who is weak, and doesnt have enough guts to identify his real enemy or the real mistake, we cant blame Allah for the explosion of a gas pipe while it would be our fault for increasing the pressure in it or hitting it with anything, its always our fault not Allah's fault.
and about compassion and loving your neighbour, of course its an obligation in islam to be good to others, thats in every religion in the world, as i said before, religions are just a moral guidance, and there is no religion that will promote hate or violence, they all call for love and compassion and forgiveness.
Islam teaches us to love everyone and never to hate, never to hurt anyone, never to lie, never to steal, and i can provide you with alot of verses in the Quran ordering muslims to abide by every virtue in the world, you can name any virtue you want and i will tell you many verses about it.
many people will say that islam teaches violence, because of the extremists, but all i have to say about that, is that the Quran is not responsible for the actions of the muslims, just like how the bible was never responsible for the actions of any christian criminal, any christian man can kill a muslim man and say that he did it for christianity, but will that make the bible of the christian religion responsible for his actions ???
Islam never allowed for killing civilians, it ordered us even at times of war to never kill any unarmed human being, and as i said before, we arent even allowed to destroy trees or farmes while invading any country because they are a source of life.
like the virtue of Humility which is shown to us in Umar's life, who is one of our great Caliphs:
In his book Encyclopaedia of Islam Mufti M. Mukarram Ahmed describes his journey to Jersualem to take control of the city from the Byzantine Patriarch of Jerusalem Sophronius:
Umar appointed Ali as his deputy and went to Jerusalem with his servant. They were having one camel on which each of them rode by turn. When Umar was entering Jerusalem it happened to be the servant’s turn to ride on the camel. Though the slave offered his turn to the "Khalifah" but Umar refused and remarked: "The honour of Islam (i.e., being Muslim) is enough for all of us." He entered Jerusalem holding the rope of the camel on which was riding his servant. His clothes were dirty and there were several patches on them.
—Mufti M. Mukarram Ahmed, <CITE>Encyclopaedia of Islam</CITE>
In The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Gibbon refers to Umar in the following terms:
"Yet the abstinence and humility of Umar were not inferior to the virtues of Abu Bakr: his food consisted of barley bread or dates; his drink was water; he preached in a gown that was torn or tattered in twelve places; and a Persian satrap, who paid his homage as to the conqueror, found him asleep among the beggars on the steps of the mosque of Muslims."
Umar Once Said:
"By God, he that is weakest among you shall be in my sight the strongest, until I have vindicated for him his rights; but him that is strongest will I treat as the weakest, until he complies with the laws."
That was the policy of one of the greatest rulers of the Islamic Empire.
About the ten commandments, we dont have something called ten commandments in Islam, but we have all their virtues in our Quran, i can post verses from Quran telling us to abide by the same virtues that were told in the ten commandments if you want.
Binky
09-19-2010, 10:49 AM
Here's one site that may enlighten you Chloe.....
The Ten Commandments in the Quran-The Answer to "Answering Islam ...
The Ten Commandments in the Quran-Response to the claims of ... Quran,Koran Qur'an, Injil Part two-The Answer to Answering Islam-org-Christians-Muslims-dialog-Jesus ... Do not withhold any testimony by concealing what you had witnessed. ...
www.submission.org/quran/ten.html
What I found in another was when it came to "Thou shalt not steal," it said stealing was punishable by "cutting" of your hands....
Here's one site that may enlighten you Chloe.....
The Ten Commandments in the Quran-The Answer to "Answering Islam ...
The Ten Commandments in the Quran-Response to the claims of ... Quran,Koran Qur'an, Injil Part two-The Answer to Answering Islam-org-Christians-Muslims-dialog-Jesus ... Do not withhold any testimony by concealing what you had witnessed. ...
www.submission.org/quran/ten.html (http://www.submission.org/quran/ten.html)
What I found in another was when it came to "Thou shalt not steal," it said stealing was punishable by "cutting" of your hands....
Thanks for the post...
Nukeman
09-19-2010, 11:35 AM
No, muslims doesnt blame Allah for anything, as our religion teaches us, that everything that happens in the world have a reason and we should learn about it, we cant blame Allah for anything that happens to us.
if a car accident happened, its either because one of the drivers was careless or both were driving in a stupid way, but we just cant say that Allah allowed that car accident to happen, right ?
when USA invaded iraq, we didnt say that Allah allowed that to happen, we can just blame the american adminstration for their greed in petrol, when american soliders raped young iraqi woman and when blackwater agents went in killing spree in baghdad we never blamed Allah for allowing it to happen, we just blamed USA for allowing it to happen.
I find this funny ABSO.. YOU and your bretheren want to blame ALL the USA for the actions of a few. yet YOU and your bretheren want us to seperate out the radical aspect of your religion from the moderate. YOU can't have it both ways . YOU cant expect us to say "ohh that was a extremist group that doesn't represent all of Islam" and you say "those dirty Americans look at what all of them did we must punish them"
Do you or DO YOU not see the hypocrisy of this?????????
who blames Allah is someone who is weak, and doesnt have enough guts to identify his real enemy or the real mistake, we cant blame Allah for the explosion of a gas pipe while it would be our fault for increasing the pressure in it or hitting it with anything, its always our fault not Allah's fault.
and about compassion and loving your neighbour, of course its an obligation in islam to be good to others, thats in every religion in the world, as i said before, religions are just a moral guidance, and there is no religion that will promote hate or violence, they all call for love and compassion and forgiveness.
Islam teaches us to love everyone and never to hate, never to hurt anyone, never to lie, never to steal, and i can provide you with alot of verses in the Quran ordering muslims to abide by every virtue in the world, you can name any virtue you want and i will tell you many verses about it.
many people will say that islam teaches violence, because of the extremists, but all i have to say about that, is that the Quran is not responsible for the actions of the muslims, just like how the bible was never responsible for the actions of any christian criminal, any christian man can kill a muslim man and say that he did it for christianity, but will that make the bible of the christian religion responsible for his actions ???
Yet your EXTREMIST use the Qur'an as a resource to excuse their actions!!
I have a question for you ABSO What percentage of Muslims would you say are extremist???? 1%,5%, or 10%?????
Islam never allowed for killing civilians, it ordered us even at times of war to never kill any unarmed human being, and as i said before, we arent even allowed to destroy trees or farmes while invading any country because they are a source of life.
Then how can you explain the killing of innocents EVERY DAY in the name of ISLAM. My god man they call for the killing of someone who insults them or offends them. Does this mean that if a Muslim offends me or my religion I have the right to DEMAND their immediate death.. Once again Hypocrisy!!!!!!!!!!!
I find this funny ABSO.. YOU and your bretheren want to blame ALL the USA for the actions of a few. yet YOU and your bretheren want us to seperate out the radical aspect of your religion from the moderate. YOU can't have it both ways . YOU cant expect us to say "ohh that was a extremist group that doesn't represent all of Islam" and you say "those dirty Americans look at what all of them did we must punish them"
:clap::clap::clap:
:salute:
chloe
09-19-2010, 02:27 PM
No, muslims doesnt blame Allah for anything, as our religion teaches us, that everything that happens in the world have a reason and we should learn about it, we cant blame Allah for anything that happens to us.
if a car accident happened, its either because one of the drivers was careless or both were driving in a stupid way, but we just cant say that Allah allowed that car accident to happen, right ?
when USA invaded iraq, we didnt say that Allah allowed that to happen, we can just blame the american adminstration for their greed in petrol, when american soliders raped young iraqi woman and when blackwater agents went in killing spree in baghdad we never blamed Allah for allowing it to happen, we just blamed USA for allowing it to happen.
who blames Allah is someone who is weak, and doesnt have enough guts to identify his real enemy or the real mistake, we cant blame Allah for the explosion of a gas pipe while it would be our fault for increasing the pressure in it or hitting it with anything, its always our fault not Allah's fault.
and about compassion and loving your neighbour, of course its an obligation in islam to be good to others, thats in every religion in the world, as i said before, religions are just a moral guidance, and there is no religion that will promote hate or violence, they all call for love and compassion and forgiveness.
Islam teaches us to love everyone and never to hate, never to hurt anyone, never to lie, never to steal, and i can provide you with alot of verses in the Quran ordering muslims to abide by every virtue in the world, you can name any virtue you want and i will tell you many verses about it.
many people will say that islam teaches violence, because of the extremists, but all i have to say about that, is that the Quran is not responsible for the actions of the muslims, just like how the bible was never responsible for the actions of any christian criminal, any christian man can kill a muslim man and say that he did it for christianity, but will that make the bible of the christian religion responsible for his actions ???
Islam never allowed for killing civilians, it ordered us even at times of war to never kill any unarmed human being, and as i said before, we arent even allowed to destroy trees or farmes while invading any country because they are a source of life.
like the virtue of Humility which is shown to us in Umar's life, who is one of our great Caliphs:
In his book Encyclopaedia of Islam Mufti M. Mukarram Ahmed describes his journey to Jersualem to take control of the city from the Byzantine Patriarch of Jerusalem Sophronius:
Umar appointed Ali as his deputy and went to Jerusalem with his servant. They were having one camel on which each of them rode by turn. When Umar was entering Jerusalem it happened to be the servant’s turn to ride on the camel. Though the slave offered his turn to the "Khalifah" but Umar refused and remarked: "The honour of Islam (i.e., being Muslim) is enough for all of us." He entered Jerusalem holding the rope of the camel on which was riding his servant. His clothes were dirty and there were several patches on them.
—Mufti M. Mukarram Ahmed, <CITE>Encyclopaedia of Islam</CITE>
In The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Gibbon refers to Umar in the following terms:
"Yet the abstinence and humility of Umar were not inferior to the virtues of Abu Bakr: his food consisted of barley bread or dates; his drink was water; he preached in a gown that was torn or tattered in twelve places; and a Persian satrap, who paid his homage as to the conqueror, found him asleep among the beggars on the steps of the mosque of Muslims."
Umar Once Said:
"By God, he that is weakest among you shall be in my sight the strongest, until I have vindicated for him his rights; but him that is strongest will I treat as the weakest, until he complies with the laws."
That was the policy of one of the greatest rulers of the Islamic Empire.
About the ten commandments, we dont have something called ten commandments in Islam, but we have all their virtues in our Quran, i can post verses from Quran telling us to abide by the same virtues that were told in the ten commandments if you want.
Ok I want some verses from the virtues, thanks for answering my questions
chloe
09-19-2010, 02:29 PM
Here's one site that may enlighten you Chloe.....
The Ten Commandments in the Quran-The Answer to "Answering Islam ...
The Ten Commandments in the Quran-Response to the claims of ... Quran,Koran Qur'an, Injil Part two-The Answer to Answering Islam-org-Christians-Muslims-dialog-Jesus ... Do not withhold any testimony by concealing what you had witnessed. ...
www.submission.org/quran/ten.html (http://www.submission.org/quran/ten.html)
What I found in another was when it came to "Thou shalt not steal," it said stealing was punishable by "cutting" of your hands....
do they have the beattitudes?
I find this funny ABSO.. YOU and your bretheren want to blame ALL the USA for the actions of a few. yet YOU and your bretheren want us to seperate out the radical aspect of your religion from the moderate. YOU can't have it both ways . YOU cant expect us to say "ohh that was a extremist group that doesn't represent all of Islam" and you say "those dirty Americans look at what all of them did we must punish them"
Do you or DO YOU not see the hypocrisy of this?????????
Yet your EXTREMIST use the Qur'an as a resource to excuse their actions!!
I have a question for you ABSO What percentage of Muslims would you say are extremist???? 1%,5%, or 10%?????
Then how can you explain the killing of innocents EVERY DAY in the name of ISLAM. My god man they call for the killing of someone who insults them or offends them. Does this mean that if a Muslim offends me or my religion I have the right to DEMAND their immediate death.. Once again Hypocrisy!!!!!!!!!!!
i said, that we blamed american adminstration, not american people, you should read more carefully, if i hated americans, i wont be writing in this forum or talking to you.
the american adminstration is the one responsible for all the tragedies that happened in Iraq, so i blame them, but not the american people who have nothing to do with the war, as they suffered from it too, they lost their children, brothers, and fathers in that war.
as i said, if a christian killed in the name of the bible, will the bible or christianity be responsible for his killings, or will be his wrong ideas and wrong upbringing that is responsible.
i already said that Islam teaches us to look for the reasons, not just to blame Allah, you too should look for the reasons, not just blame Islam.
And 0% of Muslims would say that i am extremist, an extremist is someone who use violence to express his ideas, a person who has been misguided to believe that violence have any meaning or any goal, but violence only brings more violence, but i never use violence at all, actually, the number of physical fights i had in my life is very few, i never use violence in my life, i just talk to the other side and try to explain my point of view through arguments.
so finally, read my posts carefully before posting something like that:
"those dirty Americans look at what all of them did we must punish them"
as i never said that, and never will, i never hated americans, and never will.
Nukeman
09-19-2010, 04:42 PM
i said, that we blamed american adminstration, not american people, you should read more carefully, if i hated americans, i wont be writing in this forum or talking to you..
You said that about ONE part of your post
when american soliders raped young iraqi woman and when blackwater agents went in killing spree in baghdad we never blamed Allah for allowing it to happen, we just blamed USA for allowing it to happen.Right here..
the american adminstration is the one responsible for all the tragedies that happened in Iraq, so i blame them, but not the american people who have nothing to do with the war, as they suffered from it too, they lost their children, brothers, and fathers in that war.
What about Saddam??? Did he or did he not say he was going to destroy the west with his WMD.. did he or did he not kill hundreds of thousands of Kurds to the north. Did he or did he not attack Iran. did he or did he not thumb his nose at all the UN sanctions??
But blame the bad old USA for all your ills. It had nothing to do with the viscious leader in charge did it?? It was that evil satan of the west!!!
as i said, if a christian killed in the name of the bible, will the bible or christianity be responsible for his killings, or will be his wrong ideas and wrong upbringing that is responsible.
No we seperate out the lunatics in our culture something you and your bretheren seem incapable of.. You always accuse the victim. that is tantemount to blaming the rape victim for their rape...
i already said that Islam teaches us to look for the reasons, not just to blame Allah, you too should look for the reasons, not just blame Islam.
Once again your blaming the vicitm for the ruthlesness of the extremist
And 0% of Muslims would say that i am extremist, an extremist is someone who use violence to express his ideas, a person who has been misguided to believe that violence have any meaning or any goal, but violence only brings more violence, but i never use violence at all, actually, the number of physical fights i had in my life is very few, i never use violence in my life, i just talk to the other side and try to explain my point of view through arguments.
You to should read my post more carefully, I did Not ask if you were extremist but what percentage of your Islamic bretheren would YOU consider to be extremist!!!!!!!!!
so finally, read my posts carefully before posting something like that:
"those dirty Americans look at what all of them did we must punish them"
as i never said that, and never will, i never hated americans, and never will
You should heed your own advise and read my post carefully.
You said that about ONE part of your post
Right here..
What about Saddam??? Did he or did he not say he was going to destroy the west with his WMD.. did he or did he not kill hundreds of thousands of Kurds to the north. Did he or did he not attack Iran. did he or did he not thumb his nose at all the UN sanctions??
But blame the bad old USA for all your ills. It had nothing to do with the viscious leader in charge did it?? It was that evil satan of the west!!!
No we seperate out the lunatics in our culture something you and your bretheren seem incapable of.. You always accuse the victim. that is tantemount to blaming the rape victim for their rape...
Once again your blaming the vicitm for the ruthlesness of the extremist
You to should read my post more carefully, I did Not ask if you were extremist but what percentage of your Islamic bretheren would YOU consider to be extremist!!!!!!!!!
You should heed your own advise and read my post carefully.
sorry, for the misreading, but you should excuse my english as its not good enough :salute:
the percent is very much less than 1%, we are more than 1.5 billion muslims, so how many extremist exist ????????????????, even if you say 15 millions, that would be less than 1 percent, and of course there cant be 15 million extremist.
and of course 1.5 billion people cant be terrorists !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and again i want to remid you, that my country "Egypt", suffers from extremists too, there is some terrorist attacks that happens in egypt too, you should read about them, so the extremists attack us too because we want peace with the westren countries, an extremist is someone who was brought up in a wrong way, and he has wrong ideas, and he wont distinguish between the west and the east, he loathes boath, and attacks both while thinking that he is serving the Islamic religion in that way, while the Islamic religion never asked for blood, and it forbid killing any living soul.
Ok I want some verses from the virtues, thanks for answering my questions
i will post some verses about the virtues, but it will take me some time to collect them.
O ye who believe! Squander not your wealth among yourselves in vanity, except it be a trade by mutual consent, and kill not one another. Lo! Allah is ever Merciful unto you. (An-Nisa) (04-29)
Not to kill anyone, and not to steal others property.
You shall not kill any person - for God has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder, he will be helped. (Al-Isra) (17-33)
Not to kill anyone without justice, and if someone killed unjustifiably, the law enforcement have the right to take the killers life, but it shouldnt use excessive power in enforcing the law.
For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth. (Al-Maeda) (05-32)
When someone kills a human being unjustifiably, its like if he killed all humanity, and when someone saves a human being, its like if he saved all humanity.
If ye punish, then punish with the like of that wherewith ye were afflicted. But if ye endure patiently, verily it is better for the patient. (An-Nahl) (16-126)
When to punish someone that have harmed you, you shouldnt use excessive punishment, but to just punish him by the same action that he has done to you.
Lo! Allah commandeth you that ye restore deposits to their owners, and, if ye judge between mankind, that ye judge justly. Lo! comely is this which Allah admonisheth you. Lo! Allah is ever Hearer, Seer. (An-Nisa) (04-58)
Not to steal something that has been entrusted to you, be honest and return everything to its rightful owners, and to judge with justice between humans.
Lo! Allah enjoineth justice and kindness, and giving to kinsfolk, and forbid lewdness and abomination and wickedness. He exhort you in order that ye may take heed. (An-Nahl) (16-90)
Allah orders us to be just and kind, and to take care of our relatives.
And approach not the wealth of the orphan save with that which is better, till he reach maturity. Give full measure and full weight, in justice. We task not any soul beyond its scope. And if ye give your word, do justice thereunto, even though it be (against) a kinsman; and fulfil the covenant of Allah. This He commandeth you that haply ye may remember. (Al-Anaam) (06-152)
Allah orders the guardian on the wealth of an orphan, not to steal from that wealth, and to preserve it for them, Allah never asks us for something that is beyond our capabilities, and if there is justice to be done, we must do it even if it hurts someone important to us.
Thy Lord hath decreed, that ye worship none save Him, and (that ye show) kindness to parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age with thee, say not "Uff" unto them nor repulse them, but speak unto them a gracious word. (Al-Isra) (17-23)
Not to worship anything but Allah, and to be good to your parents, and always speak with them in a good manner
As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise. (Al-Maeda) (05-38)
Not to steal.
If ye be on a journey and cannot find a scribe, then a pledge in hand (shall suffice). And if one of you entrusteth to another let him who is trusted deliver up that which is entrusted to him (according to the pact between them) and let him observe his duty to Allah his Lord. Hide not testimony. He who hideth it, verily his heart is sinful. Allah is Aware of what ye do. (Al-Baqara) (02-283)
To always write contracts, to preserve the right to both sides in the trade, and if someone is entrusted with something, then he must do it, and never to hide a testimony or lie in a testimony.
O you who believe, you shall be absolutely equitable, and observe GOD, when you serve as witnesses, even against yourselves, or your parents, or your relatives. Whether the accused is rich or poor, GOD takes care of both. Therefore, do not be biased by your personal wishes. If you deviate or disregard (this commandment), then GOD is fully Cognizant of
everything you do. (An-Nisa) (04-135)
Dont tell a false testimony, always say the right thing even if it harm you or any relative of yours.
You shall not commit adultery; it is a gross sin, and an evil behavior. (Al-Isra) (17-32)
i will post more later about other virtues...
If I may jump in with another question, this was bobbing aroung my head earlier...
Why do women have to cover their faces, when men do not?
If I may jump in with another question, this was bobbing aroung my head earlier...
Why do women have to cover their faces, when men do not?
they dont have to cover their faces, this is just something that some Strict muslims have made up.
and about why men dont have to cover their hair, its because men dont form a temptation to women, and even if they are a temptation to women, women cant rape men or Harass them, i think men can defend them easily :thumb:.
they just have to cover their hair and their body, to be in a decent look, as decent women wont form a Temptation to men, to prevent Fornication and adultery and Harassment.
but women in Islam can show their face and hands, their is nothing wrong with that.
chloe
09-19-2010, 09:16 PM
Thanks abso Im going to read those and think about it. I may be back with more questions after that.
they dont have to cover their faces, this is just something that some Strict muslims have made up.
and about why men dont have to cover their hair, its because men dont form a temptation to women, and even if they are a temptation to women, women cant rape men or Harass them, i think men can defend them easily :thumb:.
they just have to cover their hair and their body, to be in a decent look, as decent women wont form a Temptation to men, to prevent Fornication and adultery and Harassment.
but women in Islam can show their face and hands, their is nothing wrong with that.
See in one line you say men can not tempt women, and in the next concede that they do. Surly if a women is tempted by a man, then she will try and tempt him, no?
Nukeman
09-20-2010, 05:49 AM
they dont have to cover their faces, this is just something that some Strict muslims have made up.
and about why men dont have to cover their hair, its because men dont form a temptation to women, and even if they are a temptation to women, women cant rape men or Harass them, i think men can defend them easily :thumb:.
they just have to cover their hair and their body, to be in a decent look, as decent women wont form a Temptation to men, to prevent Fornication and adultery and Harassment.
but women in Islam can show their face and hands, their is nothing wrong with that.
Sounds more to me like a failing on the MAN'S part. If YOU can't control yourself around women maybe you should "COVER YOUR EYES" instead of forcing women to cover themselves due to YOUR failing/weakness to control your male urges.:slap:
Do you not see the hypocrisy in this?? Women are too tempting so they must cover themselvs. If its the mans fault for being tempted maybe he shouldn't look at them, maybe every male child in the muslim world should have their eyes put out so they won't ever be tempted.
Pathetic just pathetic!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sounds more to me like a failing on the MAN'S part. If YOU can't control yourself around women maybe you should "COVER YOUR EYES" instead of forcing women to cover themselves due to YOUR failing/weakness to control your male urges.:slap:
Do you not see the hypocrisy in this?? Women are too tempting so they must cover themselvs. If its the mans fault for being tempted maybe he shouldn't look at them, maybe every male child in the muslim world should have their eyes put out so they won't ever be tempted.
Pathetic just pathetic!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As Quran orders women to be decent, it also orders men to look away and not to look at women even if they are not wearing decent clothes.
so Quran didnt leave any side, it told both, men and women to be decent, thats all.
and by dressing more decent, the rape numbers should decrease, and you cant deny that.
i am not saying that women are responsibles for rapes, rape is a crime punished by death in egypt, but i also say that dressing in undecent way, will provoke men and cause more rapes to happen, so should we just say, that women can dress the way they like and its only the men's fault ???
why would we say that while we can prevent such a tragedic crime from happeneing, we can save alot of women's lifes by decreasing number of rapes, by increasing decency in their clothes, you americans only care about freedom, while you never think about its price, we muslims understand that freedom is not absolute, it must be controlled for the greater good, so if freedom of women in wearing clothes is restricted, it protects them, i dont care if you agree or not, but its a fact, that rape numbers in your own country is alot more than in ours, so just stop talking about women clothes in islam.
UN 2002 Rape Statistics: "Rate Per 200,000"
South Africa - 115.61
United States of America - 32.99
New Zealand - 26.88
Iceland - 26.06
Sweden - 24.47
United Kingdom - 22.62
Northern Ireland - 21.04
England & Wales - 21
Mexico - 14.26
El Salvador - 13.12
Netherlands - 11.16
Finland - 10.6
Germany - 10.44
-------------------
Oman - 4.53
Morocco - 3.42
Tunisia - 3.13
Albania - 1.43
Azerbaijan - 0.48
Saudi Arabia - 0.27
-------------------
Notice that Saudia Arabia, which is the most Islamic Country in the world which applies the real islamic dressing rules, has the least rape rates in the world.
so, can you see how the islamic dress is helpful in reducing rape numbers, it protects our women, while you only care about freedom more than you care about women and their safety, its your way, and its our way, we both maybe different in somethings, but we both certainly want to prevent rapes and such crimes from ever happening.
revelarts
09-20-2010, 10:06 PM
As Quran orders women to be decent, it also orders men to look away and not to look at women even if they are not wearing decent clothes.
so Quran didnt leave any side, it told both, men and women to be decent, thats all.
and by dressing more decent, the rape numbers should decrease, and you cant deny that.
i am not saying that women are responsibles for rapes, rape is a crime punished by death in egypt, but i also say that dressing in undecent way, will provoke men and cause more rapes to happen, so should we just say, that women can dress the way they like and its only the men's fault ???
why would we say that while we can prevent such a tragedic crime from happeneing, we can save alot of women's lifes by decreasing number of rapes, by increasing decency in their clothes, you americans only care about freedom, while you never think about its price, we muslims understand that freedom is not absolute, it must be controlled for the greater good, so if freedom of women in wearing clothes is restricted, it protects them, i dont care if you agree or not, but its a fact, that rape numbers in your own country is alot more than in ours, so just stop talking about women clothes in islam.
UN 2002 Rape Statistics: "Rate Per 200,000"
South Africa - 115.61
United States of America - 32.99
New Zealand - 26.88
Iceland - 26.06
Sweden - 24.47
United Kingdom - 22.62
Northern Ireland - 21.04
England & Wales - 21
Mexico - 14.26
El Salvador - 13.12
Netherlands - 11.16
Finland - 10.6
Germany - 10.44
-------------------
Oman - 4.53
Morocco - 3.42
Tunisia - 3.13
Albania - 1.43
Azerbaijan - 0.48
Saudi Arabia - 0.27
-------------------
Notice that Saudia Arabia, which is the most Islamic Country in the world which applies the real islamic dressing rules, has the least rape rates in the world.
so, can you see how the islamic dress is helpful in reducing rape numbers, it protects our women, while you only care about freedom more than you care about women and their safety, its your way, and its our way, we both maybe different in somethings, but we both certainly want to prevent rapes and such crimes from ever happening.
I think a case can be made from nearly everywhere a faith traditions moral codes are/were a respected part of the culture that things like rape are less.
there are very many religious practices of Muslims that are very admirable. the strict dress code , as you said, is not required in Islam but like strict orthodox Jews it's a tradition and strict application in a attempt to honor God's standards.
However I wonder about the accuracy of the numbers you've posted.
I've heard that in some Muslims countries that a woman can only charge a man with rape if there are one or more witnesses. And that if a woman is raped and can't prove it she may be considered at fault and Shamed or honored killed. If any of this is true then the instances of reported rapes would be EXTREMELY low i would think. Even here in the U.S. women don't always report rape, the pressure in the Muslim culture seems much greater not to say anything.
Also men in Muslim countries are permitted under Islamic law to marry girls as young as 9. Some men do. In the west until 18 this is considered rape, statutory rape and Child molestation as well. Those are not counted in your stats either.
I think a case can be made from nearly everywhere a faith traditions moral codes are/were a respected part of the culture that things like rape are less.
there are very many religious practices of Muslims that are very admirable. the strict dress code , as you said, is not required in Islam but like strict orthodox Jews it's a tradition and strict application in a attempt to honor God's standards.
However I wonder about the accuracy of the numbers you've posted.
I've heard that in some Muslims countries that a woman can only charge a man with rape if there is one or more witnesses. And that if a a woman is raped and can't prove it she may be considered a fault and Shamed or honored killed. If any of this is true then the instances of reported rapes would be EXTREMELY low i would think. Even here in the U.S. women don't always report rape, the pressure in the Muslim culture seems much greater on a woman not to say anything.
Also men in Muslim countries are permitted under Islamic law to marry girls as young as 9. Some men do. In the west until 18 this is considered rape, statutory rape and Child molestation as well. Those are not counted in your stats either.
No, any women can accuse any man by rape, its the most easy crime to accuse a man of.
the women will be diagnosed by a doctor, and if there is any sign of rape, then it just takes a DNA test to send the man to death penalty.
and men cant marry girls as young as 9 years old, women in egypt cant marry legally before reaching age of 18, and they cant marry without their parents consent until age of 21.
and it doesnt need a witness for the rape crime, just DNA test or any prove.
the witness thing, is in the adultery crime, as our prophet has said that we cant accuse a man and women with adultery unless there are 4 eye witnesses to aviod injustice to the accused persons.
revelarts
09-20-2010, 10:46 PM
You know I asked another about this awhile back and he confirmed what I had heard.
I didn't say in all Muslims counties that was the case but in some (many?).
I don't know what country this guy is from, and frankly I can't be sure of the translation but this guy makes it clear that it's OK under Ilamic law to have have sex with a ( year chlid if your married to her. "...following the example of Mohamed.".
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revelarts
09-20-2010, 11:09 PM
nine year old child is what I was saying above.
this woman mentions a case in Nigeria , obviously in the area that is Muslim under Sharia law (part of Nigeria are primarily Christian/secular).
A Teenage girl is Rape and gets 7 male witnesses to proof her Charges against the man. But she is charged and gets 100 lashes.
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nine year old child is what I was saying above.
this woman mentions a case in Nigeria , obviously in the area that is Muslim under Sharia law (part of Nigeria are primarily Christian/secular).
A Teenage girl is Rape and gets 7 male witnesses to proof her Charges against the man. But she is charged and gets 100 lashes.
</EMBED>
that doesnt have anything with the rules of Islam, its just the stupid people who apply those rules, its like the laws in USA, you can always get away with your crime by hiring a good lawyer or paying bribes, its always like that, people are not angels, when a judge takes a bribe and let a criminal walk free, will you say that its his bible that told him to do so, or will you say that its just him and his corrupted personality that let him do so, and its the same in that case, maybe the judge is corrupt, maybe the law inforcement is corrupted, there must be something wrong for this to happen, because Islam clearly stated that rape is a crime punished by death, and nothing less than death.
so dont blame Islam just because someone say that he did something in the name of Islam, its the fault of this person who was misguided or had a corrupted upbringing.
You know I asked another about this awhile back and he confirmed what I had heard.
I didn't say in all Muslims counties that was the case but in some (many?).
I don't know what country this guy is from, and frankly I can't be sure of the translation but this guy makes it clear that it's OK under Ilamic law to have have sex with a ( year chlid if your married to her. "...following the example of Mohamed.".
</EMBED>
about the video in arabic, yes i reviewed the translation and its accurate enough.
the man never said that everyone must let his girl marry at 9 or 10 or any age, he was just stating that some traditions allow them to marry at 9 and some other traditions allow them at 16 and others at 18, its just about traditions.
the man allowed girls in Saudia to marry at 10 years old or more, and its just allowance not a rule that every girl must marry at 10.
but anyway, A medical Committee in Saudia, rejected his decision, and refered to the physical and mental damages that will happen to the child, so none said that all muslims agree with that, many other muslim countries forbid marriage before 18 like egypt, and syria and other countries.
i dont think that his decision was right, as he based his decision to what was being done 1400 years ago, at that time the traditions were different, and they had very different circumstances.
Rules should always consider the time that we live in, so girls at age of 10 may have been able to marry 1400 years ago, as boys were able to join battles at age of 14, but at the modern days, girls at 10 are certainly not ready to marry, as much as boys nowadays at age of 14 are just ready for pillow fights not a deadly battle, thats all i have to say, so as a muslim, when i become a father, i wont let my daughter marry until she is 20-25 at least, thats the usual age in egypt now.
about the second video, i will watch it later and post my response to it, cause i must go to College now before i miss my lecture, but from the title, i assure you, that Islam have never been in support of rape, as i said many times, its a crime punished by Death, and never punished by prison, its always a death penalty for rape crimes.
revelarts
09-21-2010, 07:28 AM
I'm not saying and the Arabic speaker is not saying that all Muslims have to marry 9 years olds. But He is Clearly saying that a marriage contract is allowed from birth and sex is allowed to begin at 9. The laws of Yeman seem not to promote the practice but they don't seem to be making effort to stop it. The CNN report says that the practice is widespread there.
Here a video of a man that was in Hizbola. Go to last 1/4 of the video to see what he describes he did in Syria as a young man/boy (he doesn't say how old he was.)
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He says he went to prostitute as young as 9 but 1st signed a "pleasure marraige" agreement before sex. He says this is Con for God and themselves. Apparently it's the practice of some prostitutes in Syria. Even 9 year old "prostitutes". I'm sure you'd agree that a 9 year old girl is not doing that voluntarily. So there's another group of girls that don't figure into the rape stats that you posted.
And that is my 1st point here, Not that every Muslim man or family is marrying off their 9 year old girls but that it's a common practice in many Muslim countries and not considered rape, which of course it is.
Oman - 4.53
Morocco - 3.42
Tunisia - 3.13
Albania - 1.43
Azerbaijan - 0.48
Saudi Arabia - 0.27
These numbers are not true. For all the reasons I've mentioned.
I'm not saying and the Arabic speaker is not saying that all Muslims have to marry 9 years olds. But He is Clearly saying that a marriage contract is allowed from birth and sex is allowed to begin at 9. The laws of Yeman seem not to promote the practice but they don't seem to be making effort to stop it. The CNN report says that the practice is widespread there.
Here a video of a man that was in Hizbola. Go to last 1/4 of the video to see what he describes he did in Syria as a young man/boy (he doesn't say how old he was.)
</EMBED>
He says he went to prostitute as young as 9 but 1st signed a "pleasure marraige" agreement before sex. He says this is Con for God and themselves. Apparently it's the practice of some prostitutes in Syria. Even 9 year old "prostitutes". I'm sure you'd agree that a 9 year old girl is not doing that voluntarily. So there's another group of girls that don't figure into the rape stats that you posted.
And that is my 1st point here, Not that every Muslim man or family is marrying off their 9 year old girls but that it's a common practice in many Muslim countries and not considered rape, which of course it is.
These numbers are not true. For all the reasons I've mentioned.
The case that you mention is not widespread, as a person, or as a father if you are a father, do you think that all fathers are capable of doing such thing ?????
its just a practice that is done by some stupid cruel fathers who want to gain money from selling their daughters, and that have nothing to do with Islam and its rules, to marry in Islam you must have the intention to be with this one forever, not just for one night to have sex, this marriage is invalid, and is not pemitted in Islam, those people are conning themselfs, they think that by doing that its a valid marriage in Islam, while its not.
about the marriage contract, i think that you agree with me when i say its nothing, and it doesnt matter, its just a piece of paper, its doesnt mean anything, the marriage in Islam is not valid until they have sex, before that the contract is invalid and can be thrown into the trash at any time.
so as i said, girls at 9 in this age is not ready to marry, and that what the religious council in egypt has said, so i assure you, that islam doesnt approves of this actions.
its just like women trafficking to make them work as prostitutes, that is what a one day marriage looks like, and Islam never approves of such a stupid action.
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