Cut and RUN... Wikipedia

[Pale Rider]

CUT AND RUN



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For the sailing term, see: Cut and run (sailing)

Cut and run is a pejorative phrase used in the context of a war or battle meaning cowardly retreat. Thus, stripped of emotional connotation, the phrase simply means withdraw or retire from the conflict at issue. The added pungency of the phrase comes from the partially obscured implication that this withdrawal is a course only undertaken by dishonorable fools whose fear and confusion has overcome their better judgment.

According to William Safire the phrase, suggesting panic, "is always pejorative. Nobody, not even those who urge leaders to 'bring the troops home,' will say, 'I think we ought to cut and run.'"

Eugene McCarthy used the phrase as follows: "As [the Vietnam war] continued to go badly, its advocates became more defensive. The motives of those who spoke out against the war were questioned, as was their patriotism, and in the case of the Democrats their loyalty to the party. Critics were called 'nervous Nellies' and 'special pleaders,' and, in the language of cattle handlers, as ready to 'cut and run.'" (Quoted by Bob Herbert in the New York Times, December 15, 2005.)

Congresswoman Jean Schmidt imfamously used the phrase in the U.S. house of Representatives on November 18, 2005: "A few minutes ago, I received a call from Colonel Danny Bubp, Ohio representative from the 88th District in the House of Representatives. He asked me to send Congress a message: Stay the course. He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message: that cowards cut and run, Marines never do."

Schmidt's remarks were immediately criticized and within ten minutes, she withdrew them and apologized. Karen Tabor, Bubp's spokeswoman, said Bubp "did not mention Congressman Murtha by name nor did he mean to disparage Congressman Murtha...He feels as though the words that Congresswoman Schmidt chose did not represent their conversation." [1] Bubp told the Cincinnati Enquirer that he never mentioned Murtha by name when talking to Schmidt and would never call another US Marine a coward. Bubp later said, "I don't want to be interjected into this. I wish she never used my name." [2]

Contrary to what Rush Limbaugh and Tucker Carlson have claimed during the controversy, Bubp was not in Iraq when he spoke to Schmidt, nor has he ever served in the Iraq war [3].

The phrase originates in nautical usage. The OED quotes Elements and Practice of Rigging and Seamanship (1794) which defines the phrase to mean "to cut the cable and make sail instantly, without waiting to weigh anchor." Here cable refers to the anchor line, hence the anchor is lost. Run is used in the sense of to sail downwind.

William Safire discussed the term in Cut and Run: Headlong 'retrograde movement' in The New York Times Magazine; May 2, 2004.

John Howard, the Prime Minister of Australia said "we are not going to cut and run from Iraq Mr Speaker".

U.S. president George W. Bush uses this phrase to describe Democrats who are against the war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut_and_run

[Baron Von Esslingen]

A suicide bomber detonated a truck full of explosives at a U.S. Marine barracks located at Beirut International Airport; 241 U.S. Marines were killed and more than 100 others wounded. They were part of a contingent of 1,800 Marines that had been sent to Lebanon as part of a multinational force to help separate the warring Lebanese factions. (Twice during the early 1980s the U.S. had deployed troops to Lebanon to deal with the fall-out from the 1982 Israeli invasion. In the first deployment, Marines helped oversee the peaceful withdrawal of the PLO from Beirut. In mid-September 1982 -- after the U.S. troops had left -- Israel's Lebanese allies massacred an estimated 800 unarmed Palestinian civilians remaining in refugee camps. Following this, 1,800 Marines had been ordered back into Lebanon.)

In his September 2001 FRONTLINE interview, Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger said the U.S. still lacks "actual knowledge of who did the bombing" of the Marine barracks. But it suspected Hezbollah, believed to be supported in part by Iran and Syria. Hezbollah denied its involvement.

The president assembled his national security team to devise a plan of military action. The planned target was the Sheik Abdullah barracks in Baalbek, Lebanon, which housed Iranian Revolutionary Guards believed to be training Hezbollah fighters. Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger aborted the mission, reportedly because of his concerns that it would harm U.S. relations with other Arab nations. Instead, President Reagan ordered the battleship USS New Jersey, stationed off the coast of Lebanon, to the hills near Beirut. The move was seen as largely ineffective.

Four months after the Marine barracks bombing, U.S. Marines were ordered to start pulling out of Lebanon.

link (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/target/etc/cron.html)

The origination of the meaning of "Cut & Run" came from Reagan himself.

[Pale Rider]

link (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/target/etc/cron.html)

The origination of the meaning of "Cut & Run" came from Reagan himself.

So... he knew what you liberals were about too... so what... :dunno:

[Baron Von Esslingen]

He used to be a Liberal until the Altzheimer's set in. Then he became a conservative. Then he cut & run in Lebanon. Yep. He knew he was setting the bar for that phrase.

[Pale Rider]

He used to be a Liberal until the Altzheimer's set in. Then he became a conservative. Then he cut & run in Lebanon. Yep. He knew he was setting the bar for that phrase.

If RR was EVER a liberal, then bubba clinton was never a sexual predator. To insult Reagan like that is un-American... but then... you ARE un-American. You're a LIBERAL.

Baron? What kind of a Baron? German? As in "un-American?"

[Baron Von Esslingen]

If RR was EVER a liberal, then bubba clinton was never a sexual predator. To insult Reagan like that is un-American... but then... you ARE un-American. You're a LIBERAL.

Baron? What kind of a Baron? German? As in "un-American?"

You're fuckin A right it's German, asswipe. America is made up of all kinds of nationalities and German is one of them but given that you have the STOOPID gene in your makeup AND you are a conservative (sorry for repeating myself) you wouldn't be able to figure that out. The only un-American here is your dumbass who seems to think that nationality determines patriotism. But then patriotism is a complex concept and I wouldn't expect a neocon/conservative/dimbulb like yourself to understand that.

READ IT AND WEEP, RETARD:


Ronald Wilson Reagan (February 6, 1911 – June 5, 2004) was the 40th President of the United States (1981 – 1989) and the 33rd Governor of California (1967 – 1975). Reagan was born and raised in Illinois and moved to California in the 1930s where he met his wife, Nancy. Before entering politics, he was a Hollywood actor, President of the Screen Actors Guild, and a spokesman for General Electric. Previously a New Deal Democrat, Reagan became a conservative Republican in 1962. link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan)

Thanks for clearing up Bubba's record. He thanks you and so do I.

[Baron Von Esslingen]

And he still cut & run from Lebanon.

[KarlMarx]

He used to be a Liberal until the Altzheimer's set in. Then he became a conservative. Then he cut & run in Lebanon. Yep. He knew he was setting the bar for that phrase.
RR was a regular contributor to National Review, a conservative magazine, in the 1960s.
He wasn't diagnosed with Alzheimer's until 1994, twelve years after Lebanon.

But, let's go back to the early 1970s when another President was forced to withdraw from another country by a Democrat controlled Congress. After the withdrawal, the Democrat controlled Congress voted to cut all funding to the Vietnamese Army.

When the going gets tough, the Democrats quit

Winners never quit, and Democrats never quit whining

Early to bed, early to rise, Pelosi should have a job serving fries

Hickory Dickory Dock
Harry Reid is part of the flock
The clock struck one
He stuck his head in his bum
Hickory Dickory Dock

Twinkle twinkle little star
This time Pelosi has gone too far
Now she wants us to quit
Harry Reid is such a twit

Nancy had a little lamb
His fleece was white as snow
And everywhere that Nancy went
Harry was sure to go

[stephanie]

RR was a regular contributor to National Review, a conservative magazine, in the 1960s.
He wasn't diagnosed with Alzheimer's until 1994, twelve years after Lebanon.

But, let's go back to the early 1970s when another President was forced to withdraw from another country by a Democrat controlled Congress. After the withdrawal, the Democrat controlled Congress voted to cut all funding to the Vietnamese Army.

When the going gets tough, the Democrats quit

Winners never quit, and Democrats never quit whining

Early to bed, early to rise, Pelosi should have a job serving fries

Hickory Dickory Dock
Harry Reid is part of the flock
The clock struck one
He stuck his head in his bum
Hickory Dickory Dock

Twinkle twinkle little star
This time Pelosi has gone too far
Now she wants us to quit
Harry Reid is such a twit

Nancy had a little lamb
His fleece was white as snow
And everywhere that Nancy went
Harry was sure to go

:2up:

[Pale Rider]

You're fuckin A right it's German, asswipe. America is made up of all kinds of nationalities and German is one of them but given that you have the STOOPID gene in your makeup AND you are a conservative (sorry for repeating myself) you wouldn't be able to figure that out. The only un-American here is your dumbass who seems to think that nationality determines patriotism. But then patriotism is a complex concept and I wouldn't expect a neocon/conservative/dimbulb like yourself to understand that.

READ IT AND WEEP, RETARD:

link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan)

Thanks for clearing up Bubba's record. He thanks you and so do I.


Well baronvon... something ... you just single handedly qualified this thread to be moved to the Steel Cage, with your gutter mouth and vile comments.

Proud of yourself?

[avatar4321]

I find it hard to believe that anyone could honestly try to claim Reagan was a liberal. A Democrat yes, but the entire reason he left the Democrat party was because of the extreme left taking it over. if he was a liberal he wouldnt have had to leave.

[Joe Steel]

I'm all in favor of "cut and run" in Iraq. I just wonder, though, if the army is going to issue a "white flag of surrender" to each unit and if generals are going to get those little yellow strings on the edges of their's.

[Pale Rider]

I'm all in favor of "cut and run" in Iraq. I just wonder, though, if the army is going to issue a "white flag of surrender" to each unit and if generals are going to get those little yellow strings on the edges of their's.

You also going to wait by the air ports and spit on the troops coming home like the rest of the piece of shit hippies did in 1974?

What the fuck is wrong with you people? What part of, "if we don't fight them there, well have to fight them here", don't you understand?

[Gaffer]

You also going to wait by the air ports and spit on the troops coming home like the rest of the piece of shit hippies did in 1974?

What the fuck is wrong with you people? What part of, "if we don't fight them there, well have to fight them here", don't you understand?

They don't understand anything except Bush hatred. Nothing else matters. Cutting and running is just another way to make Bush look bad and that is their only goal. The democrat party died off a long time ago. It's the liberal party now. The jihad supporting America hating liberals.

[loosecannon]

well a lot of you have forgotten that the dems were much more conservative in the early 60's.

Their support base was divided between the south (today's red states) labor and catholics.

But fwiw, neocons by definition begin as radical lefties, socialists and commies and gravitate toward the far right. They remain social liberals throughout, except when it comes to courting votes.

Which is why Cheney has no problem with his lesbian daughter but you do.

That includes Rummy, Cheney, Jeb Bush and most of the WH team.

[loosecannon]

What part of, "if we don't fight them there, well have to fight them here", don't you understand?

I could ask you the same question. Why are we ignoring, in fact exacerbating, terrorism and wasting our wad on nation states that don't have a damned thing to do with terrorism?

While the terrorists run free.

[loosecannon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocon

Neoconservatism is a political movement which has emerged in the 1960s, coalesced in the 1970s, and has significant presence in the administration of George W. Bush.[1]

Neo- is Greek for "new". Neoconservatism is new in two ways: first, many of the movement's founders, liberals and people from socialist backgrounds, were new to conservatism; second, it was a fairly recent strain of conservative socio-political thought. Its intellectual roots are from the decades following World War II, including the literary criticism and social science movements.

Neoconservatism is associated with periodicals such as Commentary and The Weekly Standard, and with foreign policy initiatives of think tanks such as the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), and the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA).

The original neoconservatives were a band of liberal intellectuals who rebelled against the Democratic Party's leftward drift on defense issues in the 1970s. At first the neoconservatives clustered around Sen. Henry "Scoop" Jackson, a Democrat, but then they aligned themselves with Ronald Reagan and the Republicans, who promised to confront Soviet expansionism. The neoconservatives, in the famous formulation of one of their leaders, Irving Kristol, were "liberals mugged by reality."


I guess that explains Reagan's liberal roots.

[Baron Von Esslingen]

Well baronvon... something ... you just single handedly qualified this thread to be moved to the Steel Cage, with your gutter mouth and vile comments.

Proud of yourself?

Well, pale whatever, go back and look at who started the PERSONAL comments and you'll find you have only yourself to blame. It's a hard concept, that personal responsiblity thing, but I was perfectly content to discuss the "issue" but you were not. :slap:

I've always been proud of myself, my heritage, and my politics and if you make the mistake again of attacking me PERSONALLY again, you'll get the same result. It's the only thing some people understand. Steel cage, shcmeel cage, it's all the same when you stoop to attacking the poster and not the post.

[Baron Von Esslingen]

And Reagan still cut and run in Lebanon. In fact, he invented it.

[Baron Von Esslingen]

RR was a regular contributor to National Review, a conservative magazine, in the 1960s.
He wasn't diagnosed with Alzheimer's until 1994, twelve years after Lebanon.



Sarcasm is lost on you, isn't it?

[Baron Von Esslingen]

They don't understand anything except Bush hatred. Nothing else matters. Cutting and running is just another way to make Bush look bad and that is their only goal. The democrat party died off a long time ago. It's the liberal party now. The jihad supporting America hating liberals.

And you don't understand anything other than following a failed policy that creates more terrorists than we can kill. They are counting on you to stay in Iraq so they can recruit more and more followers. Talk about supporting the Jihad! You might as well invite them to your convention next year.

And the only people who hate America are those that try and stop the people from complaining about the people who are destroying America. That would be the republicans. My way or the highway on the road to hell.

[Pale Rider]

Well, pale whatever, go back and look at who started the PERSONAL comments and you'll find you have only yourself to blame. It's a hard concept, that personal responsiblity thing, but I was perfectly content to discuss the "issue" but you were not. :slap:

I've always been proud of myself, my heritage, and my politics and if you make the mistake again of attacking me PERSONALLY again, you'll get the same result. It's the only thing some people understand. Steel cage, shcmeel cage, it's all the same when you stoop to attacking the poster and not the post.

You're all worked up because I asked you if you were German?

Shut the fuck up you whiney blowhard prick.

[Pale Rider]

And you don't understand anything other than following a failed policy that creates more terrorists than we can kill. They are counting on you to stay in Iraq so they can recruit more and more followers. Talk about supporting the Jihad! You might as well invite them to your convention next year.

And the only people who hate America are those that try and stop the people from complaining about the people who are destroying America. That would be the republicans. My way or the highway on the road to hell.

And you've bought on to the liberal excuse scheme of blaming America for everything. We just can't do a God damn thing right in your filthy liberal eyes can we? "YOU" might as well JOIN THE TERRORISTS, because you're main goal is to see America FAIL!

[Hagbard Celine]

Wow, conservatives can use Wikepedia. That means they've graduated from stone tools! What's next? Microwave ovens? :eek:

[Pale Rider]

Wow, conservatives can use Wikepedia. That means they've graduated from stone tools! What's next? Microwave ovens? :eek:

Gee... another smartass crack from a liberal... what a surprize... :cool:

[Hagbard Celine]

Gee... another smartass crack from a liberal... what a surprize... :cool:

Awwee, did I huwt youw wittle feewings?

[Pale Rider]

Awwee, did I huwt youw wittle feewings?

:lmao: You ate that whole bowl of DUMBASS this morning, didn't you?

[Joe Steel]

You also going to wait by the air ports and spit on the troops coming home like the rest of the piece of shit hippies did in 1974?

At least I'd be at the airport. I don't think the chickenhawks would be.

[Gunny]

You're fuckin A right it's German, asswipe. America is made up of all kinds of nationalities and German is one of them but given that you have the STOOPID gene in your makeup AND you are a conservative (sorry for repeating myself) you wouldn't be able to figure that out. The only un-American here is your dumbass who seems to think that nationality determines patriotism. But then patriotism is a complex concept and I wouldn't expect a neocon/conservative/dimbulb like yourself to understand that.

READ IT AND WEEP, RETARD:

link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan)

Thanks for clearing up Bubba's record. He thanks you and so do I.

Yeah, leave out the part where Democrats weren't complete extremist moron asshats back then. Dishonest pool, herr baron.

[Gunny]

And he still cut & run from Lebanon.

A liberal lie. We left Lebanon because we weren't doing anything in Lebanon.

[Gunny]

And Reagan still cut and run in Lebanon. In fact, he invented it.

Again, a lie.

[loosecannon]

A liberal lie. We left Lebanon because we weren't doing anything in Lebanon.

Well maybe. It is difficult to ignore the 300 dead in the truck bombing.

And the timing suggests we were possibly not ABLE to do anything in Lebanon.

I mean I credit Reagan for seeing a losing cause. But if dems asking us to leave Iraq when it is a losing cause can be be called cut n run ers.....So can Ronny Reagan.

Another beautiful war brought to you by Israel btw.

[Baron Von Esslingen]

You're all worked up because I asked you if you were German?

Nothing I like better than exposing a lying sack of rightwing shit for being a lying sack of rightwing shit. Here's your quote, fuckwad.


Baron? What kind of a Baron? German? As in "un-American?"

Yeah, you were "asking me if I was German" alright. You decided to make it a personal bash especially since I told the truth about your demented little friend, Ronnie Ray-gun and you couldn't handle the truth. Just like a conservative: gets shown up by a Liberal and then resorts to making it personal because they shot their load and got nothing left to argue with. Bitch.


If RR was EVER a liberal, then bubba clinton was never a sexual predator. To insult Reagan like that is un-American... but then... you ARE un-American. You're a LIBERAL.

I'm the LIBERAL that owned your ass about Reagan's past ideological history. Since you worship him and you were clueless about where he came from and what he stood for throughout his life, that pretty much makes you the un-American here which nowdays is synonymous with being a rightwing lying sack of shit.


Shut the fuck up you whiney blowhard prick.

I'll shut up if you write Bubba a letter and tell him that he is no longer a sexual predator and then post a photocopy of the letter here as proof that you wrote it. You did clear his name after all. Thanks again for that. No letter? Oh, well. Life goes on. :finger3: :finger3: :finger3: :finger3:

[Baron Von Esslingen]

A liberal lie. We left Lebanon because we weren't doing anything in Lebanon.

We left Lebanon because the terrorists handed us our asses and Reagan cut & run because of it.


By early 1983, the multinational force made up of U.S., French and Italian soldiers had settled into their peacekeeping duties in Beirut. This military presence soon pushed the United States into direct confrontation with groups allied with Hezbollah. In March 1983, U.S. Marines were fired upon for the first time while patrolling areas near the Beirut airport. A Lebanese radio station later announced that "a militant Shiite Muslim faction aligned with Syria and Iran" was responsible for the attacks.

Although U.S. officials vowed no change in U.S. policy as a result of the attack, the next strike proved harder to shrug off. Less than a month later, on April 18, 1983, a suicide bomber drove a truck loaded with high explosives into the U.S. embassy in Beirut. The blast killed 60 people, including 17 Americans. Hours later, an organization called Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.

The United States now was confronted with a rather shadowy enemy. From the start, it seemed to U.S. intelligence analysts that Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah were in some way connected. Both organizations pledged fervent allegiance to Iran, both were based in the Baalbeck region of the Bekaa valley and both were known to have received weaponry from Syria. In addition, the groups shared the same leaders, including a man named Sheikh Hussein Mussawi.

U.S. intelligence sources began suggesting that Islamic Jihad was simply a cover used by Hezbollah for carrying out its terrorist attacks. This charge was repeatedly denied by Hezbollah's spiritual leader, Sheikh Muhammad Hussein Fadlallah, who insisted that Hezbollah stood for moderation and restraint. When asked by Western reporters to clarify Hezbollah's objectives, he responded in vague terms: "It is a mass movement that concentrates on facing political problems. Maybe it is closer to the Islamic revolution in Iran than others due to its religious commitment."

Debate Over U.S. Policy

Some within the Reagan administration, including Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger, argued that threats posed by shadowy organizations was reason enough to evacuate the Marines. But instead of withdrawing forces, President Reagan deployed an additional 2,000 Marines to Beirut by mid-September 1983.

The arrival in Lebanon of more American soldiers was met with swift and devastating force. On October 23, 1983, a truck bomb destroyed the U.S. Marine barracks at the Beirut airport, killing 241 American soldiers. Until September 11, 2001, this was considered the greatest loss in U.S. history of American lives in a terrorist attack. Islamic Jihad once again claimed responsibility.

While the Reagan administration considered a military response to the truck bombing, Islamic Jihad continued its campaign against American targets. In January 1984, Islamic Jihad gunmen killed Malcolm Kerr, the president of the American University of Beirut. Months later, William Buckley, chief of the CIA's Beirut station, became Islamic Jihad's first American kidnap victim. Buckley was eventually smuggled to Teheran via Damascus aboard an Iranian plane. He died in Iran after being tortured.

The terror campaign against the U.S. military presence in Lebanon achieved its objective. On March 31, 1984, President Reagan ordered the U.S. Marines to return home. France and Italy also withdrew their forces, and the multinational peacekeeping effort was formally abandoned.

But the attacks on the United States did not stop after the Marines evacuated Beirut. Islamic Jihad targeted dozens of Western officials and civilians for kidnapping and murder. TWA Flight 847 was hijacked while en route from Athens to Rome and rerouted to Beirut. American and British professors from the American University of Beirut were kidnapped. Journalists, including Terry Anderson, head of the Associated Press's Beirut bureau, were taken hostage. These tactics proved effective in driving out foreign civilians, who began leaving Lebanon in 1984.

Although Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the kidnappings, the United States continued to suspect that Hezbollah, with support from Iran, was behind them. Those suspicions were intensified when Hezbollah published its official manifesto in 1985. The manifesto stressed that Hezbollah was neither an organized party nor a political cadre, but rather the expression of the worldwide Muslim community.

The manifesto outlined Hezbollah's objectives, one of which was the desire to expel all "colonial entities" from Lebanon, including Israel, the United States and France. "We combat abomination, and we shall tear out its very roots, its primary roots, which are the U.S.," the manifesto declared.

Policy Paralysis

The Reagan administration seemed paralyzed in the aftermath of these events. U.S. intelligence agents could not pinpoint a suitable target for military retaliation for the bombings because it was too difficult to sort out which Shiite factions should be held responsible. The only effective way to stop the kidnappings, it seemed, was to go to the source of terrorism: Iran. But an attack on Iran was considered extremely dangerous -- many advisors feared that such an assault would initiate a full-scale war.

So the Reagan administration decided on another approach, that of secretly trying to improve relations with Iran. But the effort led to diplomatic back-channels that resulted in the Iran-Contra affair: In return for Iran's help in arranging the release of some of the hostages in Lebanon, the Reagan administration offered to sell a cache of weapons to the Iranian regime, which at the time was engaged in a protracted and bloody war with Iraq. Proceeds from these arms sales were then used to fund anti-Communist guerrilla forces in Nicaragua. News of the arms deals resulted in a political debacle for Reagan, but that wasn't the only outcome. The Iran-Contra affair also underscored the point that the United States would have to contend with Iran in order to restrain Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah.

And now a new political calculus had been invented. The kidnappers from Islamic Jihad exploited the hostages in order to secure the release of Shiite prisoners from Israeli prisons. Iran used its mediation role in the crisis to gain leverage with the United States. Syria tried unsuccessfully to intervene in order to exert control over the Lebanese government. And the negotiations between and among all these countries resulted in a slow but steady trickle of releases, until the last of the hostages held in Lebanon were finally freed in 1991.

So, Reagan pulls all our forces out of Lebanon because he can't find the enemy to fight against. He violates the law by selling arms to our enemies, the Iranians. The terrorists he cannot find kidnap all kinds of folks and hold them hostage. (Terry Anderson was in captivity for seven years.) And you sit there and say "we weren't doing anything in Lebanon." You got that right because Reagan didn't know what the fuck to do.

link (http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/lebanon/tl03b.html)

[Pale Rider]

Nothing I like better than exposing a lying sack of rightwing shit for being a lying sack of rightwing shit. Here's your quote, fuckwad.

Yeah, you were "asking me if I was German" alright. You decided to make it a personal bash especially since I told the truth about your demented little friend, Ronnie Ray-gun and you couldn't handle the truth. Just like a conservative: gets shown up by a Liberal and then resorts to making it personal because they shot their load and got nothing left to argue with. Bitch.

I'm the LIBERAL that owned your ass about Reagan's past ideological history. Since you worship him and you were clueless about where he came from and what he stood for throughout his life, that pretty much makes you the un-American here which nowdays is synonymous with being a rightwing lying sack of shit.

I'll shut up if you write Bubba a letter and tell him that he is no longer a sexual predator and then post a photocopy of the letter here as proof that you wrote it. You did clear his name after all. Thanks again for that. No letter? Oh, well. Life goes on. :finger3: :finger3: :finger3: :finger3:

Damn junior, you even show me up with bullshit. You need to reach around and pull that wad of undies you got bundled up in your ass out son, because you're full of shit and need to take a dump real bad.

And I could give a fuck less what nationality you are. You're just another rabid, frothing at the mouth, America hating foriegner here running down my country. You're jealous. Too bad. Go fuck yourself nazi.

[Baron Von Esslingen]

Damn junior, you even show me up with bullshit. You need to reach around and pull that wad of undies you got bundled up in your ass out son, because you're full of shit and need to take a dump real bad.

And I could give a fuck less what nationality you are. You're just another rabid, frothing at the mouth, America hating foriegner here running down my country. You're jealous. Too bad. Go fuck yourself nazi.

Spoken like a puss that is mad he got owned by a LIBERAL about his hero Reagan. I took a dump... on you. Takes a "nazi" to know a "nazi."

[Pale Rider]

Spoken like a puss that is mad he got owned by a LIBERAL about his hero Reagan. I took a dump... on you. Takes a "nazi" to know a "nazi."

I hope you enjoy being chained to the floor the next six months, because that's where you are chump. You've been slapped down so hard your mama has a black eye. Well just get used to it boy. It aint' going to get any better from here on out. This iron fisted old cowboy has you under his thumb.

We don't "surrender" here like you liberal ass munches.

[Gunny]

Well maybe. It is difficult to ignore the 300 dead in the truck bombing.

And the timing suggests we were possibly not ABLE to do anything in Lebanon.

I mean I credit Reagan for seeing a losing cause. But if dems asking us to leave Iraq when it is a losing cause can be be called cut n run ers.....So can Ronny Reagan.

Another beautiful war brought to you by Israel btw.

As difficult to ignore as the fact they were all piled up in one building doing essentially nothing. Our presence alone obvioulsy didn't have the desired effect.

As far as Iraq is concerned, I make a distinction between true "cut-n-runners" and those who think more should be done to turn Iraq over the Iraqis and let them handle their own internal conflicts. I happen to support the latter; however, there ARE those who are going to paint it as the former, no matter what.

[Gunny]

We left Lebanon because the terrorists handed us our asses and Reagan cut & run because of it.



So, Reagan pulls all our forces out of Lebanon because he can't find the enemy to fight against. He violates the law by selling arms to our enemies, the Iranians. The terrorists he cannot find kidnap all kinds of folks and hold them hostage. (Terry Anderson was in captivity for seven years.) And you sit there and say "we weren't doing anything in Lebanon." You got that right because Reagan didn't know what the fuck to do.

link (http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/lebanon/tl03b.html)

We left Lebanon because we weren't accomplishing anything with our presence. Seems like a reasonable choice to me.

Still trying to perpetuate that 20+ years old lie, huh? You of course can PROVE Reagan had anything to do with Iran-Contra? Oh, that's right, there was never any evidence of Reagan's involvement. Just baseless accusations from folks like you.

[OCA]

He used to be a Liberal until the Altzheimer's set in. Then he became a conservative. Then he cut & run in Lebanon. Yep. He knew he was setting the bar for that phrase.

Cut and run is what Baron does when I get involved in a debate, this guy is no fool, he knows he can't hang with me so he bones out for other destinations when the big dog shows up.

[OCA]

RR was a regular contributor to National Review, a conservative magazine, in the 1960s.
He wasn't diagnosed with Alzheimer's until 1994, twelve years after Lebanon.

But, let's go back to the early 1970s when another President was forced to withdraw from another country by a Democrat controlled Congress. After the withdrawal, the Democrat controlled Congress voted to cut all funding to the Vietnamese Army.

When the going gets tough, the Democrats quit

Winners never quit, and Democrats never quit whining

Early to bed, early to rise, Pelosi should have a job serving fries

Hickory Dickory Dock
Harry Reid is part of the flock
The clock struck one
He stuck his head in his bum
Hickory Dickory Dock

Twinkle twinkle little star
This time Pelosi has gone too far
Now she wants us to quit
Harry Reid is such a twit

Nancy had a little lamb
His fleece was white as snow
And everywhere that Nancy went
Harry was sure to go


:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

[OCA]

They don't understand anything except Bush hatred. Nothing else matters. Cutting and running is just another way to make Bush look bad and that is their only goal. The democrat party died off a long time ago. It's the liberal party now. The jihad supporting America hating liberals.


This is true, they care nothing about America or the troops, its all politics to them and everything is fair game.

[OCA]

well a lot of you have forgotten that the dems were much more conservative in the early 60's.

Their support base was divided between the south (today's red states) labor and catholics.

But fwiw, neocons by definition begin as radical lefties, socialists and commies and gravitate toward the far right. They remain social liberals throughout, except when it comes to courting votes.

Which is why Cheney has no problem with his lesbian daughter but you do.

That includes Rummy, Cheney, Jeb Bush and most of the WH team.

Absolute hogwash but then again I consider the source and say its proper.

Ain't that right there Mr. Yellowbelly?

[goober]

The phrase "cut and run" is from the days of wooden warships powered by sail.
When a ship was at anchor, and the enemy appeared over the horizon, the captain had two choices, he could "strike the flag", surrender, or he could "cut and run", cut his anchor line and run down wind, and hope to pick up enough speed where he could maneuver and put up some kind of fight. A wooden ship stood no chance if it "stayed the course", it could only fight while maneuvering.
The phrase originally meant taking desperate action when one found themselves in a particularly bad position (how completely friggin' ironic).

[Gunny]

The phrase "cut and run" is from the days of wooden warships powered by sail.
When a ship was at anchor, and the enemy appeared over the horizon, the captain had two choices, he could "strike the flag", surrender, or he could "cut and run", cut his anchor line and run down wind, and hope to pick up enough speed where he could maneuver and put up some kind of fight. A wooden ship stood no chance if it "stayed the course", it could only fight while maneuvering.
The phrase originally meant taking desperate action when one found themselves in a particularly bad position (how completely friggin' ironic).

The term "cut-n-run" wouldn't be used now if it were not for partisan hacks doing their usual to put anything we do, regardless what it is, in Iraq in a the worst possible light.

[loosecannon]

The term "cut-n-run" wouldn't be used now if it were not for partisan hacks doing their usual to put anything we do, regardless what it is, in Iraq in a the worst possible light.

Except that the partisan hacks purveying the term are trying to "put anything we do, regardless what it is, in Iraq in a the best possible light".

[manu1959]

and what of the partisan hacks criticizing the term whom are trying to "put anything we do, regardless what it is, in Iraq in a the worst possible light".

[Baron Von Esslingen]

I hope you enjoy being chained to the floor the next six months, because that's where you are chump. You've been slapped down so hard your mama has a black eye. Well just get used to it boy. It aint' going to get any better from here on out. This iron fisted old cowboy has you under his thumb.

We don't "surrender" here like you liberal ass munches.

"Chained to the floor?" Don't tell me that you are gonna start treating me like family? Homey don't play that way. That's a perverted republican way of doing things that we Liberals don't go in for. You got your dumb ass owned and now you are mad that you got showed up and now you are threatening to stalk me around these boards to return the favor? Knock yourself out. I ain't that hard to find. You didn't surrender; you got beat.

[Baron Von Esslingen]

We left Lebanon because we weren't accomplishing anything with our presence. Seems like a reasonable choice to me.

We're saying the same about Iraq.


Still trying to perpetuate that 20+ years old lie, huh? You of course can PROVE Reagan had anything to do with Iran-Contra? Oh, that's right, there was never any evidence of Reagan's involvement. Just baseless accusations from folks like you.

When his entire administration was under indictment for violating the law about providing aid and armaments to the Contras, it's hard to not know what the hell is going on. Unless you are going to use the Altzheimer's defense: I don't remember.

[manu1959]

We're saying the same about Iraq.

When his entire administration was under indictment for violating the law about providing aid and armaments to the Contras, it's hard to not know what the hell is going on. Unless you are going to use the Altzheimer's defense: I don't remember.

can you refresh my memory....how many of ronnies cronnies were impeached or went to jail....

[darin]

This thread is done - thanks to you few users who lack the maturity to control yourselves. Just a tip: Nobody thinks you're cool because you can be vulgar.