Firefighters watch as home burns to the ground

[Agnapostate]

http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/local/Firefighters-watch-as-home-burns-to-the-ground-104052668.html


OBION COUNTY, Tenn. - Imagine your home catches fire but the local fire department won't respond, then watches it burn. That's exactly what happened to a local family tonight.

A local neighborhood is furious after firefighters watched as an Obion County, Tennessee, home burned to the ground.

The homeowner, Gene Cranick, said he offered to pay whatever it would take for firefighters to put out the flames, but was told it was too late. They wouldn't do anything to stop his house from burning.

Each year, Obion County residents must pay $75 if they want fire protection from the city of South Fulton. But the Cranicks did not pay.

The mayor said if homeowners don't pay, they're out of luck.

This fire went on for hours because garden hoses just wouldn't put it out. It wasn't until that fire spread to a neighbor's property, that anyone would respond.

Turns out, the neighbor had paid the fee.

[continued at source...]

Glenn Beck, of course, has already commented that, "if you don’t pay the 75 dollars then that hurts the fire department. They can’t use those resources, and you’d be spongeing off your neighbor’s resources."

Of course, by claiming that there is a free rider problem, he implicitly admits that fire protection has public good characteristics (non-excludability), in densely populated urban areas, with negative externalities for other homeowners and an inability to confine a house fire to one dwelling and property area, so I don't see how this idea could possibly catch on.

[Noir]

Sucks to be them, but they knew what they where doing by choosing not to pay their $75, if the fire department had of done it for them then surly everyone would stop paying the $75 and do the same if their house catches fire.

Though I must say, it's a pretty weird concept (to me) to be able to opt out of fire cover =/

[Pagan]

No ticky no washie

It takes money to fund and staff the Fire Department do you think it just automagically appears? :lame2:

The Mayor says it all right here -

"Anybody that's not in the city of South Fulton, it's a service we offer, either they accept it or they don't," Mayor David Crocker said

Accepting responsibility for your actions and decisions is what is called being an "Adult".

[Nukeman]

The communities "outside" the city limits could always start a voluteer fire dept. like every other community out there that are not in a incorporated community. I know in Indiana most rural setting have these and it comes out of your taxes....

[fj1200]

Quite clearly the only legitimate response to this is the immediate passage of FD Reform. Any non-FD covered homeowner has the right to NOT be turned down for FD coverage regardless of pre-existing conditions of his property. If they are unable to afford the coverage then a new tax on the rich will be levied.

[MtnBiker]

Well why stop with fire fighting services, perhaps governments should itemize all of the costs to taxpayers and let them choose which services they will pay for and which ones they will forgo.

[Pagan]

Well why stop with fire fighting services, perhaps governments should itemize all of the costs to taxpayers and let them choose which services they will pay for and which ones they will forgo.

That's actually a pretty damn good idea, but back to the story.

The house was outside of the City Limit's, the City Fire Department offered its services to those Outside of the City Limit's for $75 a year. The guy who lost his home is just trying to put the blame elsewhere for his own stupidity.

[jon_forward]

I live in this bubba backward state of Tennessee where this happened. the owners of the burnt property have a home owners policy in good standing, are not accepting outside help and are taking care of themselves. However I dont know how anybody that calls them selves a firefighter would ever let this happen. WTF !!!!! I would bet that the Fire dept is the recipient of TAXPAYERS MONEY be it Fed state county or L.O.S.T this is like a DOCTOR watching someone die [ok not quite] . There are Insurance companys that wont insure you without fire protection ie a FIRE DEPT THAT PUTS OUT FIRES. whats next 'OH GEE WHIZ MR HOMEOWNER YOUR POLICE PROTECTION DOES NOT COVER GUN WELDING BURGLERS AT THIS TIME FOR ANOTHER FEE, CAN I PLEASE HAVE YOUR CREDIT CARD ,:boom2::boom2::boom2: [ PHONE GOES SILENT].

[Noir]

I live in this bubba backward state of Tennessee where this happened. the owners of the burnt property have a home owners policy in good standing, are not accepting outside help and are taking care of themselves. However I dont know how anybody that calls them selves a firefighter would ever let this happen. WTF !!!!! I would bet that the Fire dept is the recipient of TAXPAYERS MONEY be it Fed state county or L.O.S.T this is like a DOCTOR watching someone die [ok not quite] . There are Insurance companys that wont insure you without fire protection ie a FIRE DEPT THAT PUTS OUT FIRES. whats next 'OH GEE WHIZ MR HOMEOWNER YOUR POLICE PROTECTION DOES NOT COVER GUN WELDING BURGLERS AT THIS TIME FOR ANOTHER FEE, CAN I PLEASE HAVE YOUR CREDIT CARD ,:boom2::boom2::boom2: [ PHONE GOES SILENT].

Because if they didn't let it happen then no one would pay the $75 because no fire fighter would ever let a house burn down whether you pay the $75 or not, right?

[Psychoblues]

There is just too much unknown information about this situation to respond exactly or with full confidence but here I go anyway. We KNOW that the Fire Department in question receives tax dollars to support their services and some of those tax dollars come from county residents like Mr. Gene Cranick, the homeowner.

There have been a good number of smart-ass and very ignorant remarks made about Mr. Cranick in this thread so let's set the record straight and rid ourselves of all this paranoia and hate filled innuendo.

Mr. Cranick offered to pay the firemen on the spot. His neighbors offered to pay the firemen on the spot. Mr. Cranick claims he had simply forgotten to pay the annual fee and no one has produced any evidence that is not true. He had paid it before and fully intended to pay it again. I have done very similar things and in the event of no reminders from the billing entity my situations could have been equally as catastrophic. Some of the firemen that reported to the scene cried with Mr. Cranick when they became aware that their chief refused to put water on the burning house. Mr. Cranick admits to his mistake and takes full responsibility for it. He is not asking for anything from anyone other than for his insurance company to honor their agreement with him. Mr. Cranick reports that any funds donated to him or his family over and above his incidental expenses not covered by his insurance will go to a deserving charity like a children's hospital or something like that to be determined later. Were it not for the over exposure by the national media we wouldn't be having this conversation. But, considering that we are please consider that this type thing happens many times every day in this country. There are those so filled with hate and self loathing they are happy to accommodate and even contribute to the suffering of their fellow men. They are not hard to pick out of the crowd, don't you know?

Psychoblues

[Missileman]

There is just too much unknown information about this situation to respond exactly or with full confidence but here I go anyway. We KNOW that the Fire Department in question receives tax dollars to support their services and some of those tax dollars come from county residents like Mr. Gene Cranick, the homeowner.

There have been a good number of smart-ass and very ignorant remarks made about Mr. Cranick in this thread so let's set the record straight and rid ourselves of all this paranoia and hate filled innuendo.

Mr. Cranick offered to pay the firemen on the spot. His neighbors offered to pay the firemen on the spot. Mr. Cranick claims he had simply forgotten to pay the annual fee and no one has produced any evidence that is not true. He had paid it before and fully intended to pay it again. I have done very similar things and in the event of no reminders from the billing entity my situations could have been equally as catastrophic. Some of the firemen that reported to the scene cried with Mr. Cranick when they became aware that their chief refused to put water on the burning house. Mr. Cranick admits to his mistake and takes full responsibility for it. He is not asking for anything from anyone other than for his insurance company to honor their agreement with him. Mr. Cranick reports that any funds donated to him or his family over and above his incidental expenses not covered by his insurance will go to a deserving charity like a children's hospital or something like that to be determined later. Were it not for the over exposure by the national media we wouldn't be having this conversation. But, considering that we are please consider that this type thing happens many times every day in this country. There are those so filled with hate and self loathing they are happy to accommodate and even contribute to the suffering of their fellow men. They are not hard to pick out of the crowd, don't you know?

Psychoblues

I'll wager you're a proponent of making the insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions too. If it makes so much sense, why don't they make the auto and life insurance companies do the same.

"Hello, Prudential? I'd like to take out a life insurance policy for my great-great-great-great-great grandfather."

[Psychoblues]

I'll wager you're a proponent of making the insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions too. If it makes so much sense, why don't they make the auto and life insurance companies do the same.

"Hello, Prudential? I'd like to take out a life insurance policy for my great-great-great-great-great grandfather."

As usual you obviously don't understand the difference here between taxpayer supported fire protection and private health insurance. I certainly do hope someday for a universal health insurance plan for all Americans much like Medicare and Medicaid and I think someday we'll have it just like every other industrialized nation on Earth has. Ours may be a bit different than the rest but we SHOULD have it. But that's an entirely different story, isn't it, mm? Of course it was your intent to change the subject and you almost succeeded.

But, let's talk about the new policies of many rural fire departments to want to charge annual fees to provide fire coverage. Are the police departments and sheriffs departments or maybe the Highway Patrol next in that consideration? Already many of these policies of some of these fire departments have been put under restraining orders to continue their old policies of simply providing the community service they were created to provide. Public monies built the fire department in this question and public monies continue to support it including tax monies paid by Mr. Cranick. This will be one for the courts if a lawyer wants to pick it up for principles. Actually, there is only about $10,000 to $15,000 in loses according to Mr. Cranick and no injuries. Which brings up another question. What if there had been a child or an old person or anyone in that house and the firefighters refused to rescue them based on nonpayment of a $75 fee? Changes the paradigm, doesn't it?

Life insurance on my great, great great, great grandfather? You're a freakin' idiot, mm.

Love :laugh2:

Psychoblues

[Missileman]

What if there had been a child or an old person or anyone in that house and the firefighters refused to rescue them based on nonpayment of a $75 fee? Changes the paradigm, doesn't it?

Life insurance on my great, great great, great grandfather? You're a freakin' idiot, mm.

Love :laugh2:

Psychoblues

Have a link that supports your allegation that they were allowed to refuse to rescue, or as usual are you posting some bullshit you pulled out of your ass?

While you're at it, explain the difference between waiting to buy health insurance until after you've been diagnosed with an expensive condition and buying life insurance on someone who's already dead.

[Pagan]

Hey, let's all not pay for any services or insurance then when we need them they must provide. You know like drive around without car insurance and when we get into a fender bender just pick an insurance company and demand they pay for it eh?

[Kathianne]

As usual you obviously don't understand the difference here between taxpayer supported fire protection and private health insurance. I certainly do hope someday for a universal health insurance plan for all Americans much like Medicare and Medicaid and I think someday we'll have it just like every other industrialized nation on Earth has. Ours may be a bit different than the rest but we SHOULD have it. But that's an entirely different story, isn't it, mm? Of course it was your intent to change the subject and you almost succeeded.

But, let's talk about the new policies of many rural fire departments to want to charge annual fees to provide fire coverage. Are the police departments and sheriffs departments or maybe the Highway Patrol next in that consideration? Already many of these policies of some of these fire departments have been put under restraining orders to continue their old policies of simply providing the community service they were created to provide. Public monies built the fire department in this question and public monies continue to support it including tax monies paid by Mr. Cranick. This will be one for the courts if a lawyer wants to pick it up for principles. Actually, there is only about $10,000 to $15,000 in loses according to Mr. Cranick and no injuries. Which brings up another question. What if there had been a child or an old person or anyone in that house and the firefighters refused to rescue them based on nonpayment of a $75 fee? Changes the paradigm, doesn't it?

Life insurance on my great, great great, great grandfather? You're a freakin' idiot, mm.

Love :laugh2:

Psychoblues

Actually, PB, this family got off lucky. As you said, no one was killed, other than pets. The Farm Bureau Insurance is paying them, IN SPITE OF THE REQUIREMENT that they kept up fire protection fees. Of course, the Farm Bureau is a cooperative and I'm guessing they wanted to help out a rural member, while making a point to all, that the rule was there and exceptioned in this case.

Even with the Farm Bureau, the family was underinsured, they will not have enough to rebuild, but the mortgage will get paid and they will have some cash from property lost. My guess is that they had their homeowner's insurance escrowed, so that was paid. The bank would insist on enough insurance to equal the loan amount, though not to rebuild.

Wake up call for all. Check out Homeowner's Insurance. You need to have 'replacement costs' values, especially if you've been in your home more than 10 years. If your agent is good, they'll call you and say you really need to update. Fire of course is the worst case, but trust me, water damage can be devastating. That toilet overflow last year resulted in over $40k worth of damage to house. Another $15k in additional expenses-electricity, food, housing, etc.

That was an event that lasted less than 1/2 hour!

There are reasons that mortgage companies REQUIRE home insurance and insurance companies REQUIRE fire protection. Of course for most homes the fire protection is part of your city/county taxes. But not in this case and as we're learning not in quite a few.

From what I've read it sounds like these people lived there a long time. Mostly they paid the fire dept. costs. Then 3 years ago, they 'forgot.' Had a chimney fire and the department 'fought' it and saved the house. They paid the $75 then. I guess they figured that was the way to go. Wrong choice.

[Psychoblues]

Have a link that supports your allegation that they were allowed to refuse to rescue, or as usual are you posting some bullshit you pulled out of your ass?

While you're at it, explain the difference between waiting to buy health insurance until after you've been diagnosed with an expensive condition and buying life insurance on someone who's already dead.

I don't need a link, mm, as I only asked a question as to how, in your opinion, should the fire department have handled the situation if there had been people in the burning house? I also asked for you to address a lot more and you conveniently refuse to address any of it. You state earlier in this thread that the fire department was a city fire department apparently unsupported by county funds. I am familiar with Union County Tennessee, my grandfather lived there and is buried there and I visited him there at least annually and sometimes more and we often talked about Union County politics, and the fire departments there have been until quite recently cooperative with all county and city residents. Like I said earlier, this case may go to court but there are others substantially similar that are already in the courts. It's just wrong to expect the taxpayers to create and support a fire department and then expect additional annual fees from the residents that may or may not be familiar with the policies of the county or city.

I've already told you what I feel about health insurance. Do I need to link you back to that?

Sheesh!!!!!!!

Love :laugh2:

Psychoblues

On edit: Oops, I think it was someone else that accused the fire department of being a city fire department and expected a $75 fee for county subscribers. Please forgive me!!!!!

[Psychoblues]

Actually, PB, this family got off lucky. As you said, no one was killed, other than pets. The Farm Bureau Insurance is paying them, IN SPITE OF THE REQUIREMENT that they kept up fire protection fees. Of course, the Farm Bureau is a cooperative and I'm guessing they wanted to help out a rural member, while making a point to all, that the rule was there and exceptioned in this case.

Even with the Farm Bureau, the family was underinsured, they will not have enough to rebuild, but the mortgage will get paid and they will have some cash from property lost. My guess is that they had their homeowner's insurance escrowed, so that was paid. The bank would insist on enough insurance to equal the loan amount, though not to rebuild.

Wake up call for all. Check out Homeowner's Insurance. You need to have 'replacement costs' values, especially if you've been in your home more than 10 years. If your agent is good, they'll call you and say you really need to update. Fire of course is the worst case, but trust me, water damage can be devastating. That toilet overflow last year resulted in over $40k worth of damage to house. Another $15k in additional expenses-electricity, food, housing, etc.

That was an event that lasted less than 1/2 hour!

There are reasons that mortgage companies REQUIRE home insurance and insurance companies REQUIRE fire protection. Of course for most homes the fire protection is part of your city/county taxes. But not in this case and as we're learning not in quite a few.

From what I've read it sounds like these people lived there a long time. Mostly they paid the fire dept. costs. Then 3 years ago, they 'forgot.' Had a chimney fire and the department 'fought' it and saved the house. They paid the $75 then. I guess they figured that was the way to go. Wrong choice.

Thanks for your well thought out and reasonable response on this subject, Kathianne. These annual fees are a new or at least a very recent paradigm change in public service expectations. I wholly disagree with them as you might expect and I will effective this past week revive my activist inclinations and seek to find others like minded on this issue and agitate for fairness. I know how to do that.

Mr. Cranick realizes his mistake, blames no one but himself and it appears to me that even if Farm Bureau were to deny his claim he would simply pick himself up by his own bootstraps and rebuild or restart in some other way. I know how that is done also. I've done it several times in my life. I Have no idea why so many on this board want to say such ugly things about Mr. Cranick and the entire situation in Obion County. Seriously, I think this will be worked out in the courts as it is a fact that Obion County (including Union City, Rives, South Fulton, etc.) tax dollars fully support that fire department. That chief may not know that yet but he's about to find out.

Good to hear from you, Kathianne!!!!!

Love :laugh2:

Psychoblues

[Kathianne]

Thanks for your well thought out and reasonable response on this subject, Kathianne. These annual fees are a new or at least a very recent paradigm change in public service expectations. I wholly disagree with them as you might expect and I will effective this past week revive my activist inclinations and seek to find others like minded on this issue and agitate for fairness. I know how to do that.

Mr. Cranick realizes his mistake, blames no one but himself and it appears to me that even if Farm Bureau were to deny his claim he would simply pick himself up by his own bootstraps and rebuild or restart in some other way. I know how that is done also. I've done it several times in my life. I Have no idea why so many on this board want to say such ugly things about Mr. Cranick and the entire situation in Obion County. Seriously, I think this will be worked out in the courts as it is a fact that Obion County (including Union City, Rives, South Fulton, etc.) tax dollars fully support that fire department. That chief may not know that yet but he's about to find out.

Good to hear from you, Kathianne!!!!!

Love :laugh2:

Psychoblues

I know it's always good to hear from me, as yourself. ;)

Good luck with changing the parameters of fire protection in rural and remote counties. Seems to be they are trying to spread some coverage, knowing for the most part there is little to be had.

Even if somehow the area Cranicks lived could find volunteers for 24 hours, unlikely they could afford the equipment. So, they jobbed it out. Doesn't change the miles between structures and fire equipment or time to respond. It sucks in rural America or anywhere regarding fire response possibilities. Cranicks were playing the odds saving that $75 a year. In many cases, they could have paid and still the response time would have been too late.

PB, you nor anyone can change the facts on the ground. Rural areas cannot afford the equipment nor salaries per unit. So they must job out, to the larger rural towns. In this case, the Cranicks had previously lived off the communal spirit and paid for an incident, for $75. I guess they figured the odds were now completely in their favor and decided to just skip payments for past few years. So...

[Psychoblues]

I know it's always good to hear from me, as yourself. ;)

Good luck with changing the parameters of fire protection in rural and remote counties. Seems to be they are trying to spread some coverage, knowing for the most part there is little to be had.

Even if somehow the area Cranicks lived could find volunteers for 24 hours, unlikely they could afford the equipment. So, they jobbed it out. Doesn't change the miles between structures and fire equipment or time to respond. It sucks in rural America or anywhere regarding fire response possibilities. Cranicks were playing the odds saving that $75 a year. In many cases, they could have paid and still the response time would have been too late.

PB, you nor anyone can change the facts on the ground. Rural areas cannot afford the equipment nor salaries per unit. So they must job out, to the larger rural towns. In this case, the Cranicks had previously lived off the communal spirit and paid for an incident, for $75. I guess they figured the odds were now completely in their favor and decided to just skip payments for past few years. So...

Kathianne, I have spent most of my life living in areas that do not have adequate fire protection. I have seen underfunded and under-equipped fire departments save a lot of driveways and chimneys so I am fully aware of the plights of rural people and rural fire protection.

My gig is this. A few years ago my county tried to pull pretty much the same crap. The county residents resisted, got a few lawyers involved, the feds showed up down here, I don't know exactly what they did or how they did it but I do know it all came down in the office of the county Board of Supervisors. We don't pay fees for fire protection, period. We do pay taxes just like always and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

You will see in the next 20 or 30 years or so or maybe even sooner a propensity for municipal water works. water treatment and other endeavors traditionally done by and for communities being contracted out. The present illusion is that this will be cheaper and more efficient. I wonder why they can't show actual evidence of that? In fact, in every incidence that I know of the privatization of the municipal services in the State of Mississippi the residents there are going to court to return these services to municipal performance and control. There really are certain things that the government does cheaper and better than anyone else.

Again, GREAT to see you, Kathianne!!!!!!!!!!!

Please come and talk to me in your thread about VFW members in the Military Forum. I think our veterans, their care and how some are perceived is important. Don't you?

Love :laugh2:

Psychoblues