View Full Version : China Cutting Exports of Rare Earth Minerals
Pagan
10-20-2010, 10:46 AM
Since they have virtually a Monopoly on Rare Earth Metals they can.
China Said to Widen Its Embargo of Minerals
By KEITH BRADSHER
Published: October 19, 2010 (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/20/business/global/20rare.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=business)
KarlMarx
10-20-2010, 12:46 PM
this is not a good situation.. since microcircuits use rare earths... and microcircuits are used in just about everything from microwave ovens to missiles
SassyLady
10-20-2010, 01:54 PM
Perhaps this will be the impetus to cut some of that umbilical cord we have with China.
Pagan
10-20-2010, 02:00 PM
this is not a good situation.. since microcircuits use rare earths... and microcircuits are used in just about everything from microwave ovens to missiles
I've been bringing this kind of shit up for sometime in regards to serious concerns about dependence on China. They are the manufacturing power of the world and getting larger everyday. They are using the money to suck up resources around the globe and creating massive dependencies of the rest of the world on them. They control also huge amount of our debt and what have I been called? Anti-trade, Protectionist, Isolationist, etc. etc.
It's fucking insane that with our obsession to cheap and immediate gratification we have exported our technology, manufacturing, resources, jobs, etc. to an aggressive totalitarian government who has on a number of occasions threatened us and even have threatened to Nuke our Cities. :boom2:
It's common fucking sense to anyone with have a brain.
Perhaps this will be the impetus to cut some of that umbilical cord we have with China.
I don't think that's a viable option.
Pagan
10-20-2010, 02:22 PM
I don't think that's a viable option.
Nope, we along with a good chunk of the world have become totally dependent on them.
The Obsession of "Free Trade" without looking farther than ones own nose at the consequences has resulted in selling out to an aggressive totalitarian government and becoming dependent on them.
The 20th Century was the U.S.'s Golden Age, now prepare for the 21st being owned by Communist China. We've done it through our own greed and ignorance.
SassyLady
10-20-2010, 02:24 PM
I don't think that's a viable option.
See, that seems to be the problem with the world today. We are not willing to make the sacrifices to get back on track. Instead, we continue down the road to perdition and then wonder why we are in hell....because we want the immediate gratification as opposed to the more satisfying end result by denying benefits now.
I would love to see our country pick one thing that they are willing to forego in order to start pulling away from China. I'm not saying to flip the finger at them and forego the minerals, but I would love to see a gradual removal of partnership and a movement toward a more independent America.
Pagan
10-20-2010, 02:32 PM
See, that seems to be the problem with the world today. We are not willing to make the sacrifices to get back on track. Instead, we continue down the road to perdition and then wonder why we are in hell....because we want the immediate gratification as opposed to the more satisfying end result by denying benefits now.
I would love to see our country pick one thing that they are willing to forego in order to start pulling away from China. I'm not saying to flip the finger at them and forego the minerals, but I would love to see a gradual removal of partnership and a movement toward a more independent America.
Not going to happen, why? No one is willing to do what it will take, they're not only not willing to give up anything but are to set on forcing (legislating) their moralities and beliefs on everyone. Example is the gay marriage debate. Bottom line it's NO BUSINESS of anyone ESPECIALLY government how one defines their family and lives their personal life. But look how both sides are violating the rule of law in an attempt to force their beliefs on everyone. They're using government legislation and funding to push their personal agendas and the result is a bloated, deficit spending, big brother government enslaving the common man.
So yes, we're fucked until people get a fucking clue.
KarlMarx
10-20-2010, 04:42 PM
Not going to happen, why? No one is willing to do what it will take, they're not only not willing to give up anything but are to set on forcing (legislating) their moralities and beliefs on everyone. Example is the gay marriage debate. Bottom line it's NO BUSINESS of anyone ESPECIALLY government how one defines their family and lives their personal life. But look how both sides are violating the rule of law in an attempt to force their beliefs on everyone. They're using government legislation and funding to push their personal agendas and the result is a bloated, deficit spending, big brother government enslaving the common man.
So yes, we're fucked until people get a fucking clue.
gay marriage has nothing to do with our dependence on China.
Pagan
10-20-2010, 05:06 PM
gay marriage has nothing to do with our dependence on China.
Context and you might wanna read the Princess's post that I was responding to ya know :coffee:
KarlMarx
10-20-2010, 06:33 PM
Context and you might wanna read the Princess's post that I was responding to ya know :coffee:
I think that MKP meant that we need to be willing to give up something that we see as a benefit by being dependent on China. For instance, deficit spending, cheap foreign goods, etc. That has nothing to do with gay marriage.
Pagan
10-20-2010, 11:48 PM
I think that MKP meant that we need to be willing to give up something that we see as a benefit by being dependent on China. For instance, deficit spending, cheap foreign goods, etc. That has nothing to do with gay marriage.
I repeat "Context", I used it as an example on how people will not give anything up because they are too focused on forcing their will onto others.
Context .......................
Bottom line, people need to focus on their own shit and stop exploding Government.
SassyLady
10-21-2010, 01:02 AM
I think that MKP meant that we need to be willing to give up something that we see as a benefit by being dependent on China. For instance, deficit spending, cheap foreign goods, etc. That has nothing to do with gay marriage.
:thumb:
See, that seems to be the problem with the world today. We are not willing to make the sacrifices to get back on track. Instead, we continue down the road to perdition and then wonder why we are in hell....because we want the immediate gratification as opposed to the more satisfying end result by denying benefits now.
I would love to see our country pick one thing that they are willing to forego in order to start pulling away from China. I'm not saying to flip the finger at them and forego the minerals, but I would love to see a gradual removal of partnership and a movement toward a more independent America.
Mkay, what 'one thing' would you suggest?
Keeping in mind that if you do try this china may well catch on and starve you of other materials as a punishment.
SassyLady
10-21-2010, 06:26 AM
Mkay, what 'one thing' would you suggest?
Keeping in mind that if you do try this china may well catch on and starve you of other materials as a punishment.
Then it would behoove one to make sure they weren't dependent upon a hostile nation, now wouldn't it?
And, if they decided to starve us, it might generate another surge of creativeness and production within our country. Us Americans are pretty resilant.
The one thing that I would suggest .... quit borrowing money from them.
Oh wait, to quit borrowing means we would have to quit spending. Hey, I'm for that.
Pagan
10-21-2010, 07:17 AM
:thumb:
Like I said "we're fucked until people get a fucking clue."
Then it would behoove one to make sure they weren't dependent upon a hostile nation, now wouldn't it?
And, if they decided to starve us, it might generate another surge of creativeness and production within our country. Us Americans are pretty resilant.
The one thing that I would suggest .... quit borrowing money from them.
Oh wait, to quit borrowing means we would have to quit spending. Hey, I'm for that.
It's a bit hard to have a surge of creativeness and production when your starved of the material to make computer chips.
China is too interlaced in just about everything, they have played a good game investing in the right areas at the right time, as I said before, I do t think y'all have a choice. Nor for that matter does anyone
SassyLady
10-21-2010, 01:55 PM
It's a bit hard to have a surge of creativeness and production when your starved of the material to make computer chips.
China is too interlaced in just about everything, they have played a good game investing in the right areas at the right time, as I said before, I do t think y'all have a choice. Nor for that matter does anyone
I think you are wrong. Going to China is just the path of least resistance. I believe that we would come up with more innovations if we are cut off. Adversity breeds innovation.
Your attitude is what I'm saying is killing this country. Apathy .... giving up and thinking it's the only avenue because that's all you've known.
Who knows, perhaps this is the kick in the pants we need.
As for China being interlaced .... as I said...just one snip at a time and that lace can be unraveled.
Pagan
10-21-2010, 02:23 PM
I think you are wrong. Going to China is just the path of least resistance. I believe that we would come up with more innovations if we are cut off. Adversity breeds innovation.
Your attitude is what I'm saying is killing this country. Apathy .... giving up and thinking it's the only avenue because that's all you've known.
Who knows, perhaps this is the kick in the pants we need.
As for China being interlaced .... as I said...just one snip at a time and that lace can be unraveled.
Well for one thing people can make a difference, me in my own feeble ways I don't purchase goods made from China as much as I can. Granted it's rather difficult these days but I do check the labels and make this decision with a product.
1. Can I get it from another vender where it is not made in China
2. If not, do I really need it.
Plus I do not do give any of my business to retailers who get the majority from China. Those like Wal-Mart, Bed Bath & Beyond, etc. and I also let them know why I will not give my business to them and why.
KarlMarx
10-21-2010, 02:23 PM
Necessity is the mother of invention. In the 1960s, the average car got less than 10 miles to the gallon. An oil embargo in the 1970s sparked the invention of cars that were more fuel efficient than before, people insulated their homes. By the 1980s, cars gas milleage were, on average, two to three times what they were in the 1960s.
The Democrats made big government in order to hang on to power. Think about FDR and the New Deal. The model of using publically funded programs to get votes is now way past obsolescence.
MKP is right, to get away from China, we will have to learn to live within our means, but doing that will be a trick... Social Security and Medicare have not yet been addressed and they are the two biggest items in the federal budget.
Kathianne
10-21-2010, 02:36 PM
Necessity is the mother of invention. In the 1960s, the average car got less than 10 miles to the gallon. An oil embargo in the 1970s sparked the invention of cars that were more fuel efficient than before, people insulated their homes. By the 1980s, cars gas milleage were, on average, two to three times what they were in the 1960s.
The Democrats made big government in order to hang on to power. Think about FDR and the New Deal. The model of using publically funded programs to get votes is now way past obsolescence.
MKP is right, to get away from China, we will have to learn to live within our means, but doing that will be a trick... Social Security and Medicare have not yet been addressed and they are the two biggest items in the federal budget.
This is probably a bit of free thinking, but last night I was considering how FDR wanted to get into the war in Europe as early as 1938. Now, I might think him right in 20/20, but at the time, he was held to lend/lease by the people.
I think the tea parties, for better or worse are serving the same purpose.
Pagan
10-21-2010, 02:52 PM
This is probably a bit of free thinking, but last night I was considering how FDR wanted to get into the war in Europe as early as 1938. Now, I might think him right in 20/20, but at the time, he was held to lend/lease by the people.
I think the tea parties, for better or worse are serving the same purpose.
The absolute first step is to get Government out of personal lives, shrink the size of it to at lease 50% of what it is now. Bottom line, get back to the Conservative roots.
Goldwater Conscience of a Conservative (http://www.amazon.com/Conscience-Conservative-Barry-Goldwater/dp/1935785028/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1287690620&sr=8-1)
Barry puts it well in his book
I think you are wrong. Going to China is just the path of least resistance. I believe that we would come up with more innovations if we are cut off. Adversity breeds innovation.
Your attitude is what I'm saying is killing this country. Apathy .... giving up and thinking it's the only avenue because that's all you've known.
Who knows, perhaps this is the kick in the pants we need.
As for China being interlaced .... as I said...just one snip at a time and that lace can be unraveled.
It's not Apathy, they have control of the resources needed to male microchips, mobile phones, computers, mp3&4 players, cars, toys, stockmarkets, servers etc, all things we need, all things that only they really have the key to.
SassyLady
10-21-2010, 03:36 PM
Well for one thing people can make a difference, me in my own feeble ways I don't purchase goods made from China as much as I can. Granted it's rather difficult these days but I do check the labels and make this decision with a product.
1. Can I get it from another vender where it is not made in China
2. If not, do I really need it.
Plus I do not do give any of my business to retailers who get the majority from China. Those like Wal-Mart, Bed Bath & Beyond, etc. and I also let them know why I will not give my business to them and why.
It's a start, Pagan. A first snip, per se.
This is what I'm talking about .... remember when pets were dying because the dog food from china was contaminated? We all know that there is dog food that is not produced in china ... so why the hell buy the one made in china. Even if it costs more, don't buy from china if it can be purchased from another producer.
SassyLady
10-21-2010, 03:51 PM
It's not Apathy, they have control of the resources needed to male microchips, mobile phones, computers, mp3&4 players, cars, toys, stockmarkets, servers etc, all things we need, all things that only they really have the key to.
Do you really need these things? Or just want them because it's become more of a convenience?
And why do you think only they have the key? Right now they are the major producer because it's become easier to buy from them than to locate and extract our own minerals. Our liberals have shut down so much of our country that we don't even try to find new resources....like these essential minerals.
Do you really need these things? Or just want them because it's become more of a convenience?
And why do you think only they have the key? Right now they are the major producer because it's become easier to buy from them than to locate and extract our own minerals. Our liberals have shut down so much of our country that we don't even try to find new resources....like these essential minerals.
Okay, how do you expect to have a competitive economy if advances in micro-processing all but grind to a halt? While china and would ever are exporting from continue to progress and an exponential rate?
These minerals are mainly, due to geological reasons, found in Africa, that it where China has been investing and developing. They have prepared the ground for themselves well, that's why they have the key.
SassyLady
10-21-2010, 04:35 PM
Okay, how do you expect to have a competitive economy if advances in micro-processing all but grind to a halt? While china and would ever are exporting from continue to progress and an exponential rate?
These minerals are mainly, due to geological reasons, found in Africa, that it where China has been investing and developing. They have prepared the ground for themselves well, that's why they have the key.
And, you think because Africa (where the current major source is located) is the ONLY source of these minerals? That there is no other place on earth that these minerals, necessary to build all our pretty little toys, is to be found. Pretty narrow thinking, Noir. Which is what keeps people under the bootheel of those that have the wherewithal to keep moving ahead ... looking for new sources of resources. No wonder the UK is collapsing ... they've given up and are going for the easy out.
And, you think because Africa (where the current major source is located) is the ONLY source of these minerals? That there is no other place on earth that these minerals, necessary to build all our pretty little toys, is to be found. Pretty narrow thinking, Noir. Which is what keeps people under the bootheel of those that have the wherewithal to keep moving ahead ... looking for new sources of resources. No wonder the UK is collapsing ... they've given up and are going for the easy out.
I'm sure there are some desposits in other places, however, spefic condictions make Africa perfect for this materials, likewise with diamonds. In the same way that we have a general idea where to look for oil or gas deposits, we have a reasonable idea where to look fir these needed materials, and that place is Africa.
Thems the facts.
SassyLady
10-21-2010, 05:22 PM
I'm sure there are some desposits in other places, however, spefic condictions make Africa perfect for this materials, likewise with diamonds. In the same way that we have a general idea where to look for oil or gas deposits, we have a reasonable idea where to look fir these needed materials, and that place is Africa.
Thems the facts.
Then we need to develop other types of materials to build our technology. Us humans are pretty innovative when it comes to working around an obstacle. I really deplore it when someone says .... well, it's always been that way, why change now.
avatar4321
10-21-2010, 09:06 PM
Perhaps this will be the impetus to cut some of that umbilical cord we have with China.
With this current administration? unlikely.
But it is time for the people to be active.
Then we need to develop other types of materials to build our technology. Us humans are pretty innovative when it comes to working around an obstacle. I really deplore it when someone says .... well, it's always been that way, why change now.
So you want American companies to work on developing some new material that can be used inplace of current materials, just as cheaply and effectively and ones that are currently used and available to the US without China? Then you want all chips in the US replaced with these new ones?
Even if that where possible, your talking a period of many many years, and it'd take a huge amount of federal funding, funding that would be borrowed from, er, oh...
SassyLady
10-21-2010, 10:26 PM
So you want American companies to work on developing some new material that can be used inplace of current materials, just as cheaply and effectively and ones that are currently used and available to the US without China? Then you want all chips in the US replaced with these new ones?
Even if that where possible, your talking a period of many many years, and it'd take a huge amount of federal funding, funding that would be borrowed from, er, oh...
See, once again, you are starting off by taking the stance .... take too long, too much money. It's that instant gratification thing again. And, you'd be surprised how fast innovation can happen when it's for survival. As for the money, guess we need to cut spending programs. Perhaps we'll quit borrowing money and then turning around and giving it to South American countries to drill for oil.....or helping out countries when they have a national disaster.
We have lots of options Noir ... if we are willing to bite the bullet...and therein lies the problem. The current generations of Americans have become complacent and lazy.
See, once again, you are starting off by taking the stance .... take too long, too much money. It's that instant gratification thing again. And, you'd be surprised how fast innovation can happen when it's for survival. As for the money, guess we need to cut spending programs. Perhaps we'll quit borrowing money and then turning around and giving it to South American countries to drill for oil.....or helping out countries when they have a national disaster.
We have lots of options Noir ... if we are willing to bite the bullet...and therein lies the problem. The current generations of Americans have become complacent and lazy.
Well I have to say your 'options' sound pure fantasty, the idea that there is some -until now- unknown material that America is sitting on that will replace the many dozens of materials used to make micro-processors is optimistic to say the least.
And ofcourse processor materials are only one of chinas monopolies, ability for mass production is another, unless you want the US to be able to compete in that feild too.
SassyLady
10-21-2010, 11:06 PM
Well I have to say your 'options' sound pure fantasty, the idea that there is some -until now- unknown material that America is sitting on that will replace the many dozens of materials used to make micro-processors is optimistic to say the least.
And ofcourse processor materials are only one of chinas monopolies, ability for mass production is another, unless you want the US to be able to compete in that feild too.
So, Noir, are you advocating for China becoming the dominant country of the world?
And, 200 years ago everything we have as a society now seemed like a fantasy. It's really sad that you are so hooked into your current lifestyle that you cannot understand that somewhere, someone had to pay the price for you to have those toys you have. You might think cells phones have always been around ... but believe it or not .... just a few short years ago they were a fantasy!!!
Kathianne
10-22-2010, 04:42 AM
Well I have to say your 'options' sound pure fantasty, the idea that there is some -until now- unknown material that America is sitting on that will replace the many dozens of materials used to make micro-processors is optimistic to say the least.
And ofcourse processor materials are only one of chinas monopolies, ability for mass production is another, unless you want the US to be able to compete in that feild too.
And how many instances of American 'miracles' have been developed out of necessity? For all the 'talk' that Americans used to dominate education results, that's never quite been the case. We do tend to use ingenuity awfully well however.
So, Noir, are you advocating for China becoming the dominant country of the world?
And, 200 years ago everything we have as a society now seemed like a fantasy. It's really sad that you are so hooked into your current lifestyle that you cannot understand that somewhere, someone had to pay the price for you to have those toys you have. You might think cells phones have always been around ... but believe it or not .... just a few short years ago they were a fantasy!!!
Advocating? No, that implies I want it to happen, which I don't, but china have played a very smart game in the past few years, and will reap the benefits whether we like it or not.
You want the wheel reinvented, and I think youre blinded to the true complexity of what you are suggesting (and the attack of - if someone says it's complex they're just lazy/apathetic/don't care - really doesnt help that at all.) this is not like building a house where you can just wood or bricks or clay or plastic or some other material. Special elements have been chosen because of their spefic abilities to cope with what is needed. China saw what was coming and invested where those minerals can be found and extracted.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.