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Kathianne
11-30-2010, 08:56 PM
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/254182/devils-bargain-temporary-tax-cut-extension-new-start-daniel-foster


A Devil’s Bargain: A Temporary Tax-Cut Extension for New START?
November 30, 2010 6:18 P.M.
By Daniel Foster

Will the Republicans cut a deal that delivers President Obama passage of New START in the lame duck? Recent developments would seem to suggest that it’s a live possibility.

Senator Voinovich (R. Ohio), who previously expressed reservations about the treaty, now says he is leaning toward ratification and wants a vote this year. Senator McCain (R., Ariz.) told Good Morning America that he is also holding out hope for a lame-duck START vote. And perhaps most significantly, The Washington Post is reporting that the White House may be willing to trade a temporary, across-the-board extension of current tax rates in exchange for a vote on the ratification of New START:


The two sides discussed a series of issues that Obama has pushed to resolve before the end of the year, including unemployment benefits that are set to expire and the new START nuclear weapons treaty with Russia. McConnell deflected questions about the treaty, saying it was the “unanimous view” of all 42 Senate Republicans to first settle the tax dispute and to agree on a funding deal for the federal government.

Yet a possible end game that appeared to taking shape, numerous Senate sources said, could give Republicans the across-the-board tax-cut extensions that they are seeking, albeit in temporary form, in exchange for a Senate vote on the arms control treaty, a top priority for Obama.

But there are a few things wrong with this. One is that a top GOP Senate aid just told me the idea of such a deal is baloney (though he used a more colorful word).

“The two are completely unrelated,” the aide said, adding that he “would be surprised if any Republican would try to link a national security matter to avoiding the largest tax hike in the history of this country.”...

There follows some more positive reports after this bit, but watch them, watch them.

SassyLady
12-01-2010, 12:41 AM
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/254182/devils-bargain-temporary-tax-cut-extension-new-start-daniel-foster



There follows some more positive reports after this bit, but watch them, watch them.

Why can't these people work to a solution on each issue rather than the "good old boys" blackmail techniques.

I don't compromise very well .... I like Covey's technique of working until you can get a win/win solution.

These two issues should not have anything to do with each other.

Kathianne
12-01-2010, 04:48 AM
Why can't these people work to a solution on each issue rather than the "good old boys" blackmail techniques.

I don't compromise very well .... I like Covey's technique of working until you can get a win/win solution.

These two issues should not have anything to do with each other.

A win/win solution is a possibility when the ends wanted are similar. In this case the political class is always able to find a win/win in one of those compromises that Palin Rider is so found of. In this case it's the tax cuts stay, including for the rich and the administration gets the "New START Treaty." For them a win/win, for the people, not so much so.

However, when the outcomes wanted are opposites it becomes pretty difficult to find a win/win. One side wants a very restrained government compared to what we now have. The other wants an ever bigger, all-encompassing government. There is really little meeting ground there.

The people making up the tea parties really agree on only a few points: smaller government especially on federal level; more coherent tax policies; less regulation for businesses and removal of fetters on individuals. Neither of the two dominant parties are made up of people that actually agree with that.

fj1200
12-01-2010, 10:44 AM
BO wants PERMANENT START, the Reps want PERMANENT tax cuts; that might be win/win. Temporary tax cuts are win/not win.

Gaffer
12-01-2010, 12:55 PM
BO wants PERMANENT START, the Reps want PERMANENT tax cuts; that might be win/win. Temporary tax cuts are win/not win.

START of any kind is a not win. Congress can fix tax cuts.

fj1200
12-01-2010, 01:23 PM
START of any kind is a not win. Congress can fix tax cuts.

Your opinion, not BO's which was the point. Win for him, not win for tax rate cutters.

SassyLady
12-01-2010, 03:06 PM
I still do not see it as a win/win.....one side has to capitulate on an issue ....I want it to be one issue at a time.

They need to work on a win/win for the New START and not factor in anything else .... keep working on that issue until it is a win/win.

Then work on the taxes until it is a win/win. Using one issue against another one always leads to a win/lose on one side and a lose/win on the other.....not a good way to live life.

Example: two people in a car on a long trip...turn the radio on ... and one likes hard rock music and the other likes country. A compromise would be "let's listen to hard rock for an hour and then we will switch to country". There will always be one person in the car that is unhappy for an hour at a time. Why not find a station that both can tolerate ... probably won't be what either of them absolutely love, but at least they won't spend an hour in total agony listening to the other's music.

Kathianne
12-01-2010, 04:12 PM
BO wants PERMANENT START, the Reps want PERMANENT tax cuts; that might be win/win. Temporary tax cuts are win/not win.

Not unless they fix that proposed treaty it wouldn't be. A bad treaty regardless of the domestic 'payoff' is not a win.

fj1200
12-01-2010, 05:09 PM
Not unless they fix that proposed treaty it wouldn't be. A bad treaty regardless of the domestic 'payoff' is not a win.

In politics it is.

fj1200
12-01-2010, 05:13 PM
I still do not see it as a win/win.....one side has to capitulate on an issue ....I want it to be one issue at a time.

They need to work on a win/win for the New START and not factor in anything else .... keep working on that issue until it is a win/win.

Then work on the taxes until it is a win/win. Using one issue against another one always leads to a win/lose on one side and a lose/win on the other.....not a good way to live life.

Example: two people in a car on a long trip...turn the radio on ... and one likes hard rock music and the other likes country. A compromise would be "let's listen to hard rock for an hour and then we will switch to country". There will always be one person in the car that is unhappy for an hour at a time. Why not find a station that both can tolerate ... probably won't be what either of them absolutely love, but at least they won't spend an hour in total agony listening to the other's music.

A temporary extension of tax cuts may be classified as a win for some but it would be a loss to me. How would one compromise from that position? When two sides are completely opposing there is little to compromise on issue-to-issue. Some are happy with START as is, elections have consequences; especially Presidential ones.

Kathianne
12-01-2010, 05:13 PM
In politics it is.

My original point. Sorry, politics has it's place, it's not with safety of the country or allies. The treaty is bad, needs to be jettisoned or fixed.

fj1200
12-01-2010, 05:15 PM
My original point. Sorry, politics has it's place, it's not with safety of the country or allies. The treaty is bad, needs to be jettisoned or fixed.

Maybe so, some think otherwise. Constitutionally, POTUS gets to negotiate treaties so he gets the first word.

Kathianne
12-01-2010, 05:42 PM
Maybe so, some think otherwise. Constitutionally, POTUS gets to negotiate treaties so he gets the first word.

and the Senate gets to advise and consent or not. Ask Wilson.

fj1200
12-01-2010, 08:42 PM
and the Senate gets to advise and consent or not. Ask Wilson.

Yup, and that would be the second word.