Go ahead and cut our pay, as if we're the bad guy...

[darin]

Go ahead - make up lies about how 'we're overpaid'. Twist data and stats to make workers the bad-guys. Throw out bullshit salary and 'total compensation' figures without ANY context....The federal employees in Detroit just donated nearly half-million dollars to local charities.


Thanks to all who contributed to the Combined Federal Campaign this year! We exceeded our goal of $376,000.00 by 18.2%. Your combined efforts pooled an amazing $444,535.04 for the Southeast Michigan CFC! The Detroit Arsenal workforce went above and beyond in their contributions to support local, national and national and international charities. You exemplified the CFC slogan this year of "iCare". Your dedication and support contributed to exceeding this year's goal!

[fj1200]

Go ahead - make up lies about how 'we're overpaid'.

You're not?

The pay gap between government workers and lower-compensated private employees is growing as public employees enjoy sizable benefit growth even in a distressed economy, federal figures show.

Public employees earned benefits worth an average of $13.38 an hour in December 2008, the latest available data, the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) says. Private-sector workers got $7.98 an hour.

Overall, total compensation for state and local workers was $39.25 an hour — $11.90 more than in private business. In 2007, the gap in wages and benefits was $11.31.

The gap has been expanding because of the increasing value of public employee benefits. Last year, government benefits rose three times more than those in the private sector: up 69 cents an hour for civil servants, 23 cents for private workers.

Labor costs account for about half of state and local spending, according to BLS and Census data. Benefits consume a growing share of that, now 34%.

Illinois state Sen. Chris Lauzen, a Republican, says government benefits are unsustainable and unfair to taxpayers who earn less than civil servants. "People will become angrier and angrier when they learn the difference between their pay and benefits and what we give to public employees," he says.

Jennifer Porcari of the American Federation of Teachers, a union representing 1.4 million educators and state employees, says BLS figures that show government employees earn higher wages are misleading because jobs aren't comparable. Government jobs, such as teaching, often require more education.

Some states are asking unions for help with budget problems. New Mexico employees will pay an extra 1.5% of salary toward pensions for two years, cutting the state's share. Ohio's unions will take unpaid furlough days to save the state $440 million over two years. In the third year, workers will get most of the money back.

The wage gap between government and private workers has stayed roughly the same since 2002. Benefits are a different story.

For every $1-an-hour pay increase, public employees have gotten $1.17 in new benefits. Private workers have gotten just 58 cents in benefits for every $1 raise. The difference: Companies have ended most traditional pension plans and increased workers' share of health care costs. Government paid an average of $8,800 annually toward employee medical insurance. Private companies paid $4,100.

A full-time government worker receives benefits worth an average of $27,830 per year. A private worker's benefits are worth $16,598.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2009-04-09-compensation_N.htm

Either way, why does blame need to be assessed? Businesses and employees are getting laid off/taking reduced pay/job eliminated/whatever so why not have government jobs take a hit as well?

Full disclosure, my wife is a Fed worker and is looking at two? years of pay freezes.

[darin]

Those stats are crap. They really are. It's apples to oranges comparisons.

The newspaper’s analysis, which was based on Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA) data, concluded that, in 2009, federal employees received an average total compensation in pay and benefits of $123,049, while private sector workers made $61,051.

The newspaper’s analysis did not include military pay in its calculation of federal compensation, Kaufman said.

One flaw in the data used by the newspaper is that it does not compare similar jobs across all categories, Kaufman said, adding that it’s unfair to compare the small, 1.9 million-strong federal workforce against the 101.3 million who are employed in the private sector. That’s because, as Kaufman pointed out, the civilian federal workforce is mostly comprised of highly skilled, highly educated employees who tend to earn higher salaries.
...
“Simply put, there are far more people proportionally in the private sector earning lower wages than in the federal government, because the government has outsourced so many low-wage jobs,” Kaufman said. “Our federal workforce has also become far better educated in the last twenty years, which also translates into greater earning power.”

http://fcw.com/articles/2010/09/20/senator-rebuts-myth-of-overpaid-feds.aspx


The problem is, freezing federal pay doesn't HELP anything - it's a political stunt.

This thread REALLY is to show the generosity of Fed employees, however.

[fj1200]

Those stats are crap. They really are. It's apples to oranges comparisons.

Maybe, but are you rejecting that government benefits have risen faster than private sector benefits? I specifically highlighted benefits related comments/stats because the story didn't compare wages apples to apples.

[Gaffer]

Up until about 20 years ago federal and local governments made less than private industry. It was always said don't get a government job if you want to someday be rich. Things have been reversed since then. The big money jobs are all in government.

There's a reason for government contractors as well. Less money is paid to the workers who are contracted. Of course the big corporation they work for gets a whomping chunk but in the long run the government saves money.

A pay freeze for workers is only going to hurt the workers. Pay freezes of politicians and appointees are what need to be addressed.

My disability check has been frozen for three years and doesn't look to increase anytime soon.

[darin]

Maybe, but are you rejecting that government benefits have risen faster than private sector benefits? I specifically highlighted benefits related comments/stats because the story didn't compare wages apples to apples.

Yeah - I'm rejecting that completely. :)

[fj1200]

Yeah - I'm rejecting that completely. :)

Allrightythen.

[Kathianne]

Those stats are crap. They really are. It's apples to oranges comparisons.


The problem is, freezing federal pay doesn't HELP anything - it's a political stunt.

This thread REALLY is to show the generosity of Fed employees, however.

dmp, a freeze is not a cut. Do you not think that private sector employees are generous? That would be a fallacy.

[darin]

dmp, a freeze is not a cut. Do you not think that private sector employees are generous? That would be a fallacy.

A freeze is a cut when the cost of living rises faster than our pay (as it's been for years now).

I'm saying 'in the face of losing vital income, a group of "lazy, overpaid, worthless Gov't Employees" - a group of a couple/few thousand gave nearly half-million dollars.

Fed employees are neighbors, pastors, families. We feel the pain of the economy just the same - and at times more (when we lack the funds to properly serve Soldiers/Military for instance) than the average joe.

We're not over-paid - in fact, our pay is capped by law. Private Sector folks have unlimited potential. Their pay - position-by-position can be SUBSTANTIALLY more (think...MILLIONS per year More).

[Trigg]

dmp, a freeze is not a cut. Do you not think that private sector employees are generous? That would be a fallacy.

Agreed a freeze is not a cut.

Hubby went without a raise for 3 yrs and many hospitals cap raises at 2% which, trust me, does not keep up with cost of living.

Dose a pay freeze suck? YES!! But it happens in the private sector every day.

[darin]

Agreed a freeze is not a cut.

Hubby went without a raise for 3 yrs and many hospitals cap raises at 2% which, trust me, does not keep up with cost of living.

Dose a pay freeze suck? YES!! But it happens in the private sector every day.

...it's difficult enough to hire quality folk at the relatively low rates...you know, the Gov't requires at times a PhD for a $40k/year job? I haven't seen a 2% pay rate raise since...geesh...maybe 2006?

[Trigg]

...it's difficult enough to hire quality folk at the relatively low rates...you know, the Gov't requires at times a PhD for a $40k/year job? I haven't seen a 2% pay rate raise since...geesh...maybe 2006?

do you have health insurance taken out of your check?

[SassyLady]

If Obama's plan goes through, every single wage earner, private or government, will see a 2% increase in their take home pay ... he's reducing the Social Security deduction by 2%.

[Kathianne]

...it's difficult enough to hire quality folk at the relatively low rates...you know, the Gov't requires at times a PhD for a $40k/year job? I haven't seen a 2% pay rate raise since...geesh...maybe 2006?

dmp, you I hope know I'm not dissing you. I'm quite certain you don't have a PhD. Are you claiming you aren't making more than $40K? When others are losing their jobs or unable to secure new employment, what is so special about bureaucrats that they should have increases of any amount?