PDA

View Full Version : Colonel Douglas Burpee - 23 Years Of Military Service - A Muslim



abso
12-29-2010, 12:27 PM
His call sign is "Hadji," meaning "one who has made a pilgrimage to Mecca"
"It's a pilot thing," explains Colonel Douglas Burpee, the highest ranking Muslim officer in the U.S. Marine Corps. Now in his 23rd year of military service, Colonel Burpee recently returned from flying helicopters in Afghanistan.

"Everyone knows I'm a Muslim. When I fly, attached to my dog tags, I wear a pendant with a passage from the Koran," he says. "I try to set a good example based upon what I believe.... I can be a soldier and a Muslim at the same time. I have no problem with that."

Certainly that's Colonel Burpee's view. "These people who commit terrorism have just adopted the face of Islam - nothing they say or do have anything to do with Islam," he says. "The Taliban is a terrorist organization - they are bad people doing bad things and they've attached religion to it. They are ruthless when it comes to killing people, but that's how you move helpless people around - you use fear."

Colonel Burpee's path to both Islam and the military is not necessarily typical. With blond hair that is now going gray, he was born in America and raised Episcopalian. He converted to Islam when he was 19 for a very American reason: "I met a pretty girl" - an Egyptian woman named Hala who was a fellow student at the University of Southern California in the late 1970s. Three years later he was accepted at the Officers Candidates' School in Quantico, Va. Now he and Hala and their five sons live in Glendale, Calif.

"We believe in god and family and prayer - the same things as everyone who believes in religion," he says. But his reaction to September 11th fit a less typical script. "I watched the attacks on TV, like everybody else. The first thing we did afterwards was go to the mosque because people were concerned about a backlash. On the other hand, I had to call into my squadron and ask, 'Hey, are we being activated?'" Colonel Burpee straddles his two worlds, but he is not typical of Islam or the military.

Perhaps a more typical portrait of a Muslim soldier in the U.S. military comes from Sergeant Youseff Mandour of the U.S. Army. He immigrated to America from Morocco at the age of 17 and joined the army at age 22. Now 25, he just returned from 12 months in Iraq. Like Colonel Burpee, he aspires to a lifelong career in the military. "I'm fighting for a better life and a belief in freedom," he says. "I had a chance to get involved. I learned the English language and appreciate everything this country has given to me. That's why I joined the Army. The U.S. is doing great things."



To Read the Full Article:
http://www.nysun.com/opinion/muslims-in-the-military/31393/

jimnyc
12-29-2010, 12:28 PM
To Read the Full Article:
http://www.nysun.com/opinion/muslims-in-the-military/31393/

And you support the killing of him by terrorists.

Kathianne
12-29-2010, 12:30 PM
and you would still favor them being killed if ordered to an Islamic country.

CAPTDASH
12-29-2010, 12:40 PM
I can't remember Major Dipshit's name who killed and mamed soldiers at Ft Hood, but he along with other Muslims allowed into the US Military who have harmed fellow soldiers are not trusted by very many people. The Muslims are let in to try to prove a point that most will never be convinced of. I do not nor will I ever trust a Muslim.

This is just another example of ABSO trying to set his fellow Muslims on a pedestal. what a freakin joke you are ABSO.

jimnyc
12-29-2010, 12:43 PM
I can't remember Major Dipshit's name who killed and mamed soldiers at Ft Hood, but he along with other Muslims allowed into the US Military who have harmed fellow soldiers are not trusted by very many people. The Muslims are let in to try to prove a point that most will never be convinced of. I do not nor will I ever trust a Muslim.

This is just another example of ABSO trying to set his fellow Muslims on a pedestal. what a freakin joke you are ABSO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting

And I would bet that more muslims are proud of this guy than the guy abso refers to. This cockroach at Fort Hood should have been executed on the spot.

NightTrain
12-29-2010, 12:58 PM
Here's more on those trustworthy muslims within the U.S. Military :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasan_Akbar_case


Akbar was charged in a hand grenade and shooting attack that killed two, while wounding fourteen other soldiers on 23 March 2003. The attack took place at Camp Pennsylvania, Kuwait, a rear base camp for the invasion. There, Akbar threw four hand grenades into three tents during early morning when the majority of troops were sleeping, and fired his rifle during the ensuing chaos. News reports at the time claimed that Akbar had been recently reprimanded for insubordination and was told he would not join his unit's push into Iraq.

Kathianne
12-29-2010, 01:48 PM
and concerns beyond the battlefields and bases:

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/ArticlePrint.aspx?id=515712

abso
12-29-2010, 03:13 PM
here i post something about a fellow american, who is not an arab, just became a muslim because he loved a woman, but he never loved any country other than USA, and spent 23 years serving in the US army, and instead of being proud of a guy like him, you are all proud of guys full of hate like CAPTDASH :rolleyes:

i post about good guys, and you keep posting about bad guys, i post about good examples, and you only remember the bad ones, you encourage fear and hatred, and reject every attempt i make to encourage understanding, if you all prefer such hatred and fear from both sides, then i hope it works for you, if thats what you want to pass to your own children, then its fine, but i already know what i am going to teach my children, i am going to teach them how to love people and understand them, not how to hate others.

jimnyc
12-29-2010, 03:36 PM
here i post something about a fellow american, who is not an arab, just became a muslim because he loved a woman, but he never loved any country other than USA, and spent 23 years serving in the US army, and instead of being proud of a guy like him, you are all proud of guys full of hate like CAPTDASH :rolleyes:

i post about good guys, and you keep posting about bad guys, i post about good examples, and you only remember the bad ones, you encourage fear and hatred, and reject every attempt i make to encourage understanding, if you all prefer such hatred and fear from both sides, then i hope it works for you, if thats what you want to pass to your own children, then its fine, but i already know what i am going to teach my children, i am going to teach them how to love people and understand them, not how to hate others.

Sure, and are you going to teach them what you wrote about supporting terrorists?


no i dont support the terrorists in killing americans, i only support them if they attack american troops, not civilians

NightTrain
12-29-2010, 03:51 PM
and concerns beyond the battlefields and bases:

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/ArticlePrint.aspx?id=515712

Holy crap, Kathi! I never heard about this.


But so do so-called moderate American clerics like Zaid Shakir. In "Muslim Mafia," I transcribe for readers a CD recording of one of his sermons circulating in mosques across America. In it, he exhorts the Muslim faithful to attack planes carrying the 82nd Airborne.
Frequently booked by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) as a guest speaker at its events, Shakir tells his Muslim audience: "Jihad is physically fighting the enemies of Islam to protect and advance the religion of Islam. This is jihad."
Acceptable targets of jihad, he says, include U.S. military aircraft. "Islam doesn't permit us to hijack airplanes filled with civilian people," he said, but "if you hijack an airplane filled with the 82nd Airborne, that's something else."

jimnyc
12-29-2010, 03:52 PM
Just realized what the Colonel's name is - Burpee. Reminds me of Slurpee. Which reminds me of 7/11.

Nevermind, carry on!!

abso
12-29-2010, 04:03 PM
Sure, and are you going to teach them what you wrote about supporting terrorists?

again i dont support terrorists, and no, they wont have to learn anything about any of that, hopefully, most of the current wars will be ended by the time they start reading and watching TV news ;)

jimnyc
12-29-2010, 04:06 PM
again i dont support terrorists, and no, they wont have to learn anything about any of that, hopefully, most of the current wars will be ended by the time they start reading and watching TV news ;)

If you don't support terrorists, then why did you say you did? Slipping over your own tongue now?

abso
12-29-2010, 04:10 PM
Holy crap, Kathi! I never heard about this.

here is another stupid Imam, he got bored of asking them to kill civilians, so he try another approach to spread his terrorism, why the hell is people like him allowed to spread their thoughts, is that freedom of speech too !!!!!!!!!!! :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

i think that freedom of speech in USA needs to be revised :rolleyes:

abso
12-29-2010, 04:12 PM
If you don't support terrorists, then why did you say you did? Slipping over your own tongue now?

no it didnt slip.

there is terrorism, and there is resistence, when you invade, people have the right to resist, like in Iraq, but when you are invited in, people have no right to attack you, like in Saudia, Qatar.

as an example, the bright star exercise, thousands of american troops come to egypt to participate in it, have you ever heared of anyone attacking them ???

jimnyc
12-29-2010, 04:14 PM
no it didnt slip.

there is terrorism, and there is resistence, when you invade, people have the right to resist, like in Iraq, but when you are invited in, people have no right to attack you, like in Saudia, Qatar.

You didn't state you supported those who resisted, you outright stated you supported TERRORISTS against American troops. You're dancing, Abso, admit it. You could have just as easily wrote this in your original reply, but you didn't, you chose to write what you did. Be a man and at least support your own words.

NightTrain
12-29-2010, 04:18 PM
no it didnt slip.

there is terrorism, and there is resistence, when you invade, people have the right to resist, like in Iraq, but when you are invited in, people have no right to attack you, like in Saudia, Qatar.

as an example, the bright star exercise, thousands of american troops come to egypt to participate in it, have you ever heared of anyone attacking them ???

That would be a quick way to go visit your pal Allah.

abso
12-29-2010, 04:19 PM
You didn't state you supported those who resisted, you outright stated you supported TERRORISTS against American troops. You're dancing, Abso, admit it. You could have just as easily wrote this in your original reply, but you didn't, you chose to write what you did. Be a man and at least support your own words.

no i didnt, i sware that i distinguished between both, and you can read all my previous posts to see that.

i said that people who attack american civilians in Iraq, or Iraqi civlians, or puplic buildings or reporters, anyone who is civilian at all, those kind of people are terrorists, the people who put bombs in cars and park them in populated places, killing hundreds of people, those kind of people i despise.

i only said, that i support legal resistence, nothing more than that, and i really wish that american troops can go home back safetly, i dont like to see anymore blood being spilled, be it american or Iraqi.

abso
12-29-2010, 04:20 PM
That would be a quick way to go visit your pal Allah.

childish again

NightTrain
12-29-2010, 04:20 PM
there is terrorism, and there is resistence, when you invade, people have the right to resist, like in Iraq, but when you are invited in, people have no right to attack you, like in Saudia, Qatar.

So, you'd be okay with strapping bombs around an 8 year old and blowing up American Soldiers because that wouldn't be terrorism, right?

abso
12-29-2010, 04:22 PM
So, you'd be okay with strapping bombs around an 8 year old and blowing up American Soldiers because that wouldn't be terrorism, right?

nope i wouldnt be okay with such thing, i dont agree with suicide bombings, be it 8 years old or 20 or 40 or 80, i dont agree with someone detonating himself, i consdier that suicide, and its against my religion and beliefs.

jimnyc
12-29-2010, 04:23 PM
no i didnt, i sware that i distinguished between both, and you can read all my previous posts to see that.

i said that people who attack american civilians in Iraq, or Iraqi civlians, or puplic buildings or reporters, anyone who is civilian at all, those kind of people are terrorists, the people who put bombs in cars and park them in populated places, killing hundreds of people, those kind of people i despise.

i only said, that i support legal resistence, nothing more than that, and i really wish that american troops can go home back safetly, i dont like to see anymore blood being spilled, be it american or Iraqi.

What do you consider a "legal resistance"? The US came in to remove Saddam and help rebuild. It's terrorists and the like attacking our soldiers. We had no issue with regular citizens of Iraq and we disbanded their military. We and other Iraqi citizens are now being attacked by terrorists and religious radicals, which is just another name for a fucking terrorist.

jimnyc
12-29-2010, 04:25 PM
no i didnt, i sware that i distinguished between both, and you can read all my previous posts to see that.

i said that people who attack american civilians in Iraq, or Iraqi civlians, or puplic buildings or reporters, anyone who is civilian at all, those kind of people are terrorists, the people who put bombs in cars and park them in populated places, killing hundreds of people, those kind of people i despise.

i only said, that i support legal resistence, nothing more than that, and i really wish that american troops can go home back safetly, i dont like to see anymore blood being spilled, be it american or Iraqi.

You mentioned terrorists specifically in what I quoted from you. Is there ANYTHING at all that terrorists in Iraq or Afghanistan could do, that wouldn't involve civilians or suicide, that you would support?

abso
12-29-2010, 04:42 PM
What do you consider a "legal resistance"? The US came in to remove Saddam and help rebuild. It's terrorists and the like attacking our soldiers. We had no issue with regular citizens of Iraq and we disbanded their military. We and other Iraqi citizens are now being attacked by terrorists and religious radicals, which is just another name for a fucking terrorist.

yes, i know that now there is almost no resistence that attack American troops, they are all terrorists who dont distinguish between anything, they attack Iraqi innocents, and american innocents, and kidnap reporters to kill them while recording it on a video, they are just some very ***** people, people that i wish if they can all be killed.

i really dream that oneday all the terrorists will be killed before i wake up in the morning, so that people at least stop hating me for the actions of other stupid people. :rolleyes:

abso
12-29-2010, 04:45 PM
You mentioned terrorists specifically in what I quoted from you. Is there ANYTHING at all that terrorists in Iraq or Afghanistan could do, that wouldn't involve civilians or suicide, that you would support?

sorry if i got it wrong and mentioned terrorists instead of resistence in that Quote, but you have been talking with me for a long time now, and you already know that i denounce terrorism and that i hate terrorists.

yes, there is a very important thing that i would support them in doing and it wont involve killing any innocents at all.

i would really support them if they start having internal problems and kill each other and save us the effort ;)

jimnyc
12-29-2010, 04:46 PM
yes, i know that now there is almost no resistence that attack American troops, they are all terrorists who dont distinguish between anything, they attack Iraqi innocents, and american innocents, and kidnap reporters to kill them while recording it on a video, they are just some very ***** people, people that i wish if they can all be killed.

i really dream that oneday all the terrorists will be killed before i wake up in the morning, so that people at least stop hating me for the actions of other stupid people. :rolleyes:

Since you are under the belief that there is almost no "resistance" left and only terrorists who don't distinguish - makes me wonder EVEN MORE as to your statement about "supporting terrorists who attack American troops".

There can be no mistaking the 2, "resistance" or terrorists, if even you agree that it's terrorists ruling the roost over there as far as the attacks are concerned.

abso
12-29-2010, 05:07 PM
Since you are under the belief that there is almost no "resistance" left and only terrorists who don't distinguish - makes me wonder EVEN MORE as to your statement about "supporting terrorists who attack American troops".

There can be no mistaking the 2, "resistance" or terrorists, if even you agree that it's terrorists ruling the roost over there as far as the attacks are concerned.

i meant support resistence which attack american troops, if it really existed, but the sahmeful fact, is that Iraq is now full of terrorists, who attack without any distinguish, they kill civilians and innocents, i see terrorists, not patriots, i will only support patriots if they want to resist legally.

CAPTDASH
12-29-2010, 07:30 PM
Holy crap, Kathi! I never heard about this.

I can just picture this: On a c130 full of 82nd Soldiers enroute to a war zone: My name is Hussein, I am hear to hijack the plane and kill all you Ameri......... :boom2: :blowup: AIRBORNE :beer:

CAPTDASH
12-29-2010, 07:35 PM
here i post something about a fellow american, who is not an arab, just became a muslim because he loved a woman, but he never loved any country other than USA, and spent 23 years serving in the US army, and instead of being proud of a guy like him, you are all proud of guys full of hate like CAPTDASH :rolleyes:

i post about good guys, and you keep posting about bad guys, i post about good examples, and you only remember the bad ones, you encourage fear and hatred, and reject every attempt i make to encourage understanding, if you all prefer such hatred and fear from both sides, then i hope it works for you, if thats what you want to pass to your own children, then its fine, but i already know what i am going to teach my children, i am going to teach them how to love people and understand them, not how to hate others.

It is not HATE ABSO. It is REALITY. Everyone always remembers the bad shit. Hoorah for the soldier you mentioned, but at the end of the day, and the truth of the matter is he was after a piece of ass and he did what he had to do to get it. Islam was just a means to an end. Deal with the truth, not the idea that you clowns are freedom loving human beings.

Like Mama said from "Waterboy", You are the devil. :slap:

fj1200
12-29-2010, 11:01 PM
This is just another example of ABSO trying to set his fellow Muslims on a pedestal. what a freakin joke you are ABSO.

Don't you do the same for fellow Christians? I don't see anything wrong about a post that highlights a Muslim soldier.

CAPTDASH
12-29-2010, 11:21 PM
Don't you do the same for fellow Christians? I don't see anything wrong about a post that highlights a Muslim soldier.

I don't sit anyone on a pedestal. I don't see anything wrong with the post about the Col. Afterall the only reason he went muslim was to get the girl. Sounds like real dedication to me. More bullshit & propaganda dude.

abso
12-30-2010, 01:37 AM
I don't sit anyone on a pedestal. I don't see anything wrong with the post about the Col. Afterall the only reason he went muslim was to get the girl. Sounds like real dedication to me. More bullshit & propaganda dude.

yes, only reason in the start was to marry the egyptian girl, but for him to stay muslim for 23 years, means that he like it, and he believed in it, he knows that terrorism and Islam are two different things, he is a muslim who fought terrorism.

anyway, i think that you want him dead too, and his 5 children, afterall, they are all muslims :rolleyes:

Kathianne
12-30-2010, 01:38 AM
yes, only reason in the start was to marry the egyptian girl, but for him to stay muslim for 23 years, means that he like it, and he believed in it, he knows that terrorism and Islam are two different things, he is a muslim who fought terrorism.

anyway, i think that you want him dead too, and his 5 children, afterall, they are all muslims :rolleyes:

Poor guy doesn't stand a chance, since you too wish him dead, being a US military person after all.

abso
12-30-2010, 01:44 AM
Poor guy doesn't stand a chance, since you too wish him dead, being a US military person after all.

when did i ever say that i wish US military persons to die :rolleyes:

you really have the tendency of twisting every word i say, do you need somone to teach you how to read my words and understand what i really mean ?

i have said many times, that i only support the legal right to resist an occupation, i support that right in any country in the world, but i dont want anyone did, and i am never happy about any death, i wish if all american soliders can come home back safely.

being old, should have made you more wise than to be sarcastic for every word i say, you should have some understanding for my opinions, but seems that being old isn't always consistent with being wise.

jimnyc
12-30-2010, 07:17 AM
when did i ever say that i wish US military persons to die :rolleyes:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?30253-1-in-3-British-Muslim-students-back-killing-for-Islam-and-40-want-Sharia-law&p=457170#post457170

And now you want to run away from that thread. It's clear as day that you weren't talking about "legal resistance" as you now call it. You got pissed at CaptDash and outright stated you supported terrorists killing American troops. You can twist it all you like AFTER the fact, but you never even discussed resistance in that other thread. You were accused by someone of supporting terrorism and you're reply was that you only supported terror attacks against US troops, only not including suicide attacks.

It's clear as day, no confusion in the other thread, just CaptDash's post and your reply. You may think you can spin your way out of this to some, but I'm not falling for your excuses.

So say what you want to Kath about her response, but it was 100% spot on.

Kathianne
12-30-2010, 08:34 AM
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?30253-1-in-3-British-Muslim-students-back-killing-for-Islam-and-40-want-Sharia-law&p=457170#post457170

And now you want to run away from that thread. It's clear as day that you weren't talking about "legal resistance" as you now call it. You got pissed at CaptDash and outright stated you supported terrorists killing American troops. You can twist it all you like AFTER the fact, but you never even discussed resistance in that other thread. You were accused by someone of supporting terrorism and you're reply was that you only supported terror attacks against US troops, only not including suicide attacks.

It's clear as day, no confusion in the other thread, just CaptDash's post and your reply. You may think you can spin your way out of this to some, but I'm not falling for your excuses.

So say what you want to Kath about her response, but it was 100% spot on.

One thing I've noticed is that Abso has very, very low tolerance for a woman speaking to him, especially disrespecting him on equal footing. Like all the flowery words he uses about the beauty and duties towards women from the Koran, quite often his apparent male superiority comes through. I've noticed it before but one post the other day Jim, the one about Christmas gift and book buying. He 'longed' for a woman that would share his intellect, but the one he 'has' can only read for about 20 minutes, then wants to talk.

CAPTDASH
12-30-2010, 09:11 AM
yes, only reason in the start was to marry the egyptian girl, but for him to stay muslim for 23 years, means that he like it, and he believed in it, he knows that terrorism and Islam are two different things, he is a muslim who fought terrorism.

anyway, i think that you want him dead too, and his 5 children, afterall, they are all muslims :rolleyes:

Abso it has nothing to do with staying Muslim. If I had a great lady like that, I would do whatever I needed to keep her. Islam is just a product of his puddy pursuit. :slap:

Yes the US Military would be wise to get rid of all Muslims especially those within its ranks.

CAPTDASH
12-30-2010, 09:15 AM
One thing I've noticed is that Abso has very, very low tolerance for a woman speaking to him, especially disrespecting him on equal footing. Like all the flowery words he uses about the beauty and duties towards women from the Koran, quite often his apparent male superiority comes through. I've noticed it before but one post the other day Jim, the one about Christmas gift and book buying. He 'longed' for a woman that would share his intellect, but the one he 'has' can only read for about 20 minutes, then wants to talk.

Muslims like dominating their women. I don't have to tell you what a drag it is to see a beautiful woman in a Muslim country, and you cannot even greet her or anything. ABSO- what is it 10 paces behind you that your lady must walk behind you because she is not good enough to walk with you? Wait, I said lady, y'all call them property much like the slave owners from the old south. What a piece of work ABSO is.

He is making her read the Koran which condones killing innocent people and she is probably weary from all that vile crap. If she was real smart she would run for her life. ABSO will probably strap a bomb to her and get her to walk into the American embassy in Cairo. :salute:

fj1200
12-30-2010, 11:01 AM
Poor guy doesn't stand a chance, since you too wish him dead, being a US military person after all.

That's not fair.

Kathianne
12-30-2010, 12:14 PM
That's not fair.

Yes it is. He's been writing the same for a long time. Others noticed yesterday, but it's ongoing. As are his outbursts of misogyny.

Nukeman
12-30-2010, 12:58 PM
I will say that some of what Abso writes is contradictory but don't we all do the same thing. I really have to question the fact that not one but 2 or 3 mod are jumping on the bandwagon here to rip him apart!!

I for one believe that he is a nice person but we have to understand that the Imans will always place their religion above everything else and tell their followers what they should believe. This being said he is still young and doing what his religious leaders tell him.

Islam is not set up the same way as most other religions!!

jimnyc
12-30-2010, 01:10 PM
I really have to question the fact that not one but 2 or 3 mod are jumping on the bandwagon here to rip him apart!!

Do you really? Did we "moderate" at all? Can we not post our opinions freely, like everyone else here, because we have the ability to moderate?

And I'm sorry, when someone supports attacks on our troops, whether appropriate or via terrorism, I am going to speak my mind. I love each and every one of our troops, and to see someone "rooting" against them, in any way, is disheartening to me.

But I shouldn't be able to speak my mind because I am a moderator? If you're going to publicly criticize staff members, at least make it when we actually do something that every other member on this board can't do.

Kathianne
12-30-2010, 01:11 PM
I will say that some of what Abso writes is contradictory but don't we all do the same thing. I really have to question the fact that not one but 2 or 3 mod are jumping on the bandwagon here to rip him apart!!

I for one believe that he is a nice person but we have to understand that the Imans will always place their religion above everything else and tell their followers what they should believe. This being said he is still young and doing what his religious leaders tell him.

Islam is not set up the same way as most other religions!!

Mods are allowed to interact. I for one have rarely 'jumped' on Abso, mostly reacted to what he's written.

jimnyc
12-30-2010, 01:30 PM
I also want to reiterate this point...

Some started by telling Kathianne what she wrote was not "fair". Now Nukeman thinks it is wrong that some "mods" ganged up on him (abso) in this thread.

Forget for a minute whether you agree/disagree that abso supports terrorism. One thing that IS NOT in doubt, is what he wrote several times in that same thread:


American Troops in Iraq had no right to invade the country in the first place, WMD wasnt found at all, the whole war is illegal according to the international law, american troops there is an occupation force, so i support attacking them.

Same here, American troops is occupation force, and i support attacking them.But it's wrong or "unfair" if it's pointed out to abso that the muslim man he posted about he apparently supports attacks against? It's wrong of me to point out that he supports American troops getting attacked in ANY fashion?

I'm baffled as to why WHAT we wrote is wrong, or WHY we shouldn't be able to express our feelings about his words because we are moderators?

Nukeman
12-30-2010, 04:58 PM
Do you really? Did we "moderate" at all? Can we not post our opinions freely, like everyone else here, because we have the ability to moderate?

And I'm sorry, when someone supports attacks on our troops, whether appropriate or via terrorism, I am going to speak my mind. I love each and every one of our troops, and to see someone "rooting" against them, in any way, is disheartening to me.

But I shouldn't be able to speak my mind because I am a moderator? If you're going to publicly criticize staff members, at least make it when we actually do something that every other member on this board can't do.


I also want to reiterate this point...

Some started by telling Kathianne what she wrote was not "fair". Now Nukeman thinks it is wrong that some "mods" ganged up on him (abso) in this thread.

Forget for a minute whether you agree/disagree that abso supports terrorism. One thing that IS NOT in doubt, is what he wrote several times in that same thread:

But it's wrong or "unfair" if it's pointed out to abso that the muslim man he posted about he apparently supports attacks against? It's wrong of me to point out that he supports American troops getting attacked in ANY fashion?

I'm baffled as to why WHAT we wrote is wrong, or WHY we shouldn't be able to express our feelings about his words because we are moderators?

Dude seriously what I said was taken out of context/meaning I could have been more clear!! ... My point was NEVER to state that you and the other mods have no opinion!!! I have been on this board since the beginning and I rarely say things like this. I feel he was taken out of context and there are some on here who are like a dog with a bone.

The mods should be there to moderate and keep things from escalating into attacks that is all I was attempting to point out!!

I think what has happened is that we are confusing him with the difference of an "invited" force and a "invading" force.

I know what he stated and he has attempted to clarify that with an invading force and not all troops!!

I will be the first to say I think Islam has MORE than its share of lunatics and violent adherents but we must also remember that to Abso English is a second language and things do get confused in translation!!

Just saying, and if I offended you or any of the mods I do apologize!!!

jimnyc
12-30-2010, 05:09 PM
Dude seriously what I said was taken out of context/meaning I could have been more clear!! ... My point was NEVER to state that you and the other mods have no opinion!!! I have been on this board since the beginning and I rarely say things like this. I feel he was taken out of context and there are some on here who are like a dog with a bone.

The mods should be there to moderate and keep things from escalating into attacks that is all I was attempting to point out!!

I think what has happened is that we are confusing him with the difference of an "invited" force and a "invading" force.

I know what he stated and he has attempted to clarify that with an invading force and not all troops!!

I will be the first to say I think Islam has MORE than its share of lunatics and violent adherents but we must also remember that to Abso English is a second language and things do get confused in translation!!

Just saying, and if I offended you or any of the mods I do apologize!!!

I'm generally the first to admit if I abuse my power or do/say something not in the best interest of the board. But when it comes to "supporting" those who attack our troops, I draw the line there.

I really don't see where he attempted to clarify anything, other than to say he didn't mean terrorists.

But he has repeatedly referred to the US Troops as an "occupying force" and has stated he supported the attack of these troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Take the terror angle off the table and we are left with a Muslim stating he supports are troops being attacked. He stated it 2x no less, and then the third time is where he inferred he supported terror attacks against the troops.

Doesn't matter if WE see ourselves as an invited or invaded, abso made it very clear in MANY threads that:

1- He sees the war as internationally illegal
2- The US is an occupying force in both Iraq and Afghanistan
3- He supports attacks against those troops

No matter how you slice it or dice it - I cannot get on board or let #3 pass on by. Not even once. If you support others attacking our troops, then you are my enemy.

No need for an apology, none at all. I'm sure others see it differently too. But I cannot make it any more clear when I post where he has stated he supported our troops getting attacked - and 3x in just the past few days!!

CAPTDASH
12-30-2010, 06:20 PM
Dude seriously what I said was taken out of context/meaning I could have been more clear!! ... My point was NEVER to state that you and the other mods have no opinion!!! I have been on this board since the beginning and I rarely say things like this. I feel he was taken out of context and there are some on here who are like a dog with a bone.

The mods should be there to moderate and keep things from escalating into attacks that is all I was attempting to point out!!

I think what has happened is that we are confusing him with the difference of an "invited" force and a "invading" force.

I know what he stated and he has attempted to clarify that with an invading force and not all troops!!

I will be the first to say I think Islam has MORE than its share of lunatics and violent adherents but we must also remember that to Abso English is a second language and things do get confused in translation!!

Just saying, and if I offended you or any of the mods I do apologize!!!

Give me a freakin break. His English is good enough to say he supports attacking US troops. Piss on whether he used an adverb when he should have used an adjective. He has CLEARLY gotten his point across without any confusion.

abso
12-30-2010, 06:40 PM
One thing I've noticed is that Abso has very, very low tolerance for a woman speaking to him, especially disrespecting him on equal footing. Like all the flowery words he uses about the beauty and duties towards women from the Koran, quite often his apparent male superiority comes through. I've noticed it before but one post the other day Jim, the one about Christmas gift and book buying. He 'longed' for a woman that would share his intellect, but the one he 'has' can only read for about 20 minutes, then wants to talk.

no i dont have low tolerance for women speaking to me, but you are the one who have no tolerance at all for young man speaking to you, you all think that because you are older than me, it automaticly means that you are right, i dont feel any difference while talking to a women or man, they both are equal to me.

doesnt matter if the women is disrespecting me, an insult is an insult, doesnt matter where it came from, a man or a women, its still just an insult, and i dont remember that i have even disrespected you or talked to you in any different way than every other person in this forum, while you may seem to be respectful a little more than other people while talking to me, but still you try to pervert everything i say to prove a wrong idea that you already have about me.

and i dont feel any male superiority at all, just because i told you to find someone to explain my words to you, doesnt mean that i am saying that i am superior, its just because i got tired from your wrong understanding of my words, you pervert everything i say, but i guess that i shouldnt be surprised at all, because its a habit that everyone around here pervert my words.

and about intellect, it isnt about reading, the women i have isnt ignorant, she is in a very prestigious university in egypt, she is actually getting better education than mine :laugh:, she is studing Pharmacy, her father is a univeristy professor in Pharmacy college.

she just dont like politics or reading long stories, but that doesnt mean that she is stupid, she just dont share the same hobby i have, each one of us has certain interests, we just dont share the interest in politics and books.

and by the way, you just got another wrong thing again, i said 20 pages, not 20 minutes, she just like short stories, because she gets bored easily if she reads long books, so she prefer reading the newspaper, or short stories, and she actually likes reading newspapers very much.

please dont talk about me again like if you really understand me, none in this forum will ever be able to understand me while having such offensive attitude towards me.

Kathianne
12-30-2010, 06:52 PM
Abso, hate to break it to you but several others noticed before I did. It's not a matter of age. You have a problem with addressing men, even when being attacked you resort to copy & paste sites. :bs1:

However, no problem with long, ridiculing posts to me and other females. All straight from your little, misogynous heart. :321:

You wrote what you wrote regarding our soldiers, :terror: so rather than attacking me, address that.

abso
12-30-2010, 06:54 PM
I will say that some of what Abso writes is contradictory but don't we all do the same thing. I really have to question the fact that not one but 2 or 3 mod are jumping on the bandwagon here to rip him apart!!

I for one believe that he is a nice person but we have to understand that the Imans will always place their religion above everything else and tell their followers what they should believe. This being said he is still young and doing what his religious leaders tell him.

Islam is not set up the same way as most other religions!!

first of all, thanks for trying to help, i really appreciate it very much to see someone every now and then trying to help me instead of demonizing me.

secondly, its not the first time that 2 or 3 or 5 people are against me, its a habit around here, and it doesnt matter, because those 2-5 persons disagree with me, they have the right to say so, although i prefer if they at least dont pervert everything i say, if they stick with only what i say, not with what they want to understand from it, our conversation would be alot easier.

about religious leaders, thats the thing that everybody gets wrong about me, i dont do religious lessons, i dont listen to religious leaders, i rarely read the Quran, i only read it when some people in this board asks for explaination about verses in it.

i believe in GOD very much, i pray 5 times, i love being a muslim, but thats it, thats where i draw my line, i dont get involved anymore in the religions, the rest is that i try to live my life in a good manner, treat everyone well.

about Jim, he has the right to be upset, everyone have the right to be upset when i say that i support attacking their country troops, but i also have the right to support legal resistence in any country allover the world, you see your army as a liberation force for Iraq, but i say that most of Iraqi people see it as an occupation force, and as i already said, Iraqi people will never accept the existence of american troops in their country, they will always consider it as occupation.

abso
12-30-2010, 06:58 PM
Abso, hate to break it to you but several others noticed before I did. It's not a matter of age. You have a problem with addressing men, even when being attacked you resort to copy & paste sites. :bs1:

However, no problem with long, ridiculing posts to me and other females. All straight from your little, misogynous heart. :321:

You wrote what you wrote regarding our soldiers, :terror: so rather than attacking me, address that.

i am not attacking you, you are the one who have a wrong idea about me, and using that idea to attack me, i have no problem at all about talking to women, if you still want to believe what you said, then fine, i dont care ;)

by the way, i would like you to tell me, where or when exactly did i ever speak to you in any different way other than the way i use with men around here, when did i even refer that you are a women or used that in my reply to you ?

jimnyc
12-30-2010, 06:58 PM
everyone have the right to be upset when i say that i support attacking their country troops

So there is no mistake - you support the American Troops getting attacked in Iraq or Afghanistan - because you believe the US is an occupying force there, correct?

abso
12-30-2010, 07:02 PM
Give me a freakin break. His English is good enough to say he supports attacking US troops. Piss on whether he used an adverb when he should have used an adjective. He has CLEARLY gotten his point across without any confusion.

nope, my english isnt that good enough, after all i am egyptian, we dont get good education, arent we just some bearded terrorists, how can my english be that good as you say, i dont even understand whats an adverb and whats an adjective :p

jimnyc
12-30-2010, 07:03 PM
secondly, its not the first time that 2 or 3 or 5 people are against me, its a habit around here

I would imagine you might have that issue if you went to ANY countries boards and told the citizens of that country that you support their troops being attacked.

jimnyc
12-30-2010, 07:05 PM
nope, my english isnt that good enough, after all i am egyptian, we dont get good education, arent we just some bearded terrorists, how can my english be that good as you say, i dont even understand whats an adverb and whats an adjective :p

I hope those defending you because they feel you just aren't communicating properly now see you repeating your words again and making light of your grasp of the English language, verbs, adjectives...

You knew EXACTLY what you wrote and you've now made it 100% clear that you side with our enemy and support them attacking our troops.

I don't know how it can get any clearer for anyone who chooses to support you.

abso
12-30-2010, 07:23 PM
So there is no mistake - you support the American Troops getting attacked in Iraq or Afghanistan - because you believe the US is an occupying force there, correct?

what i believe isnt the issue here Jim, i said, that Iraqi people who believe that USA is an occupying force, have the right to attack american troops, and Afghani people who believe the same, also has the right to attack american troops.

so basicly what i said is that people who see you as an occupation, have the legal right to resist, i am only talking about resistence here, not terrorism.

about what i believe, i actually have conflicted views about the subject, i do want american army to get out of Iraq, but i also know that in a way they are trying to help, i never denied that, but what i said many times is that the effort to help the country, has destroyed it, i judge the thing from its result, maybe the intention was good and maybe not, but the result was disastrous, thats why i dont like the american presence there, if USA succeded in overthrowing Saddam withouth destroying the country and making it a blood bath, opening the way for terrorism to take over it, maybe if USA succeded without that unfortunate result, i would have supported the invasion with all my heart, but i cant agree with that result.

so finally, what believe is that, maybe USA was trying to help Iraq, and no other bad intention was the cause of the war, but anyway, USA failed to help, so US army should go back home, and let Iraqi people themselfs extinguish the fire of terrorism that USA unleashed there, maybe they will find another leader than can rule them with iron fist and will put an end to terrorism, but for Iraqi to succeed in solving their current problems, US army need to get out.

abso
12-30-2010, 07:25 PM
I hope those defending you because they feel you just aren't communicating properly now see you repeating your words again and making light of your grasp of the English language, verbs, adjectives...

You knew EXACTLY what you wrote and you've now made it 100% clear that you side with our enemy and support them attacking our troops.

I don't know how it can get any clearer for anyone who chooses to support you.

Jim, when did i deny that i agree with attacking US troops in Iraq or Afghanistan ???

i never denied that, i clearly stated that as you say, but please stick with that, dont say that i support terror, because i dont support terrorism, i guess its enough that i say that i support attacking american troops, thats enough for you to use and make people hate me around here, you dont need to say that i also support terrorism, i gave you enough excuse, so dont invent another one please, use the real one. ;)

and about the word "Terrorists" that you Quoted me saying, that was a honest mistake, no bad intentions were behind it, i meant resistence, not terrorism.

by the way, i wasnt making light of my grasp of english language at all, i was just being sarcastic, even if i try to say that my english is not good enough, everyone around here have seen me writing for a long time now, and none will believe me, it was just sarcasm, nothing more.

but i was honest about the "adverb" part, i never understood what is the adverb, and how we use it in english, i never liked grammer, and never concentrated in studing its rules, sometimes my grammer is right and sometimes its wrong, i am sure that you have noticed that many times by now, i just speak english without knowing anything about its grammer rules, i only use my common sense to judge if the sentence is right to wrong according to grammer.

abso
12-30-2010, 07:28 PM
I would imagine you might have that issue if you went to ANY countries boards and told the citizens of that country that you support their troops being attacked.

yes, i already said that, its very normal for all of you to disagree with me, i never said that anyone should support my opinion or agree with me, i would hate it too if anyone said that he support attacking Egyptian troops whether they are occupation or not, i would just hate it.

abso
12-30-2010, 07:35 PM
i am not attacking you, you are the one who have a wrong idea about me, and using that idea to attack me, i have no problem at all about talking to women, if you still want to believe what you said, then fine, i dont care ;)

by the way, i would like you to tell me, where or when exactly did i ever speak to you in any different way other than the way i use with men around here, when did i even refer that you are a women or used that in my reply to you ?

you failed to point me at the reply where i mentioned anything about you being a women, or when i replied to you in any different way than any men i talk to around here.

abso
12-30-2010, 07:36 PM
Do you really? Did we "moderate" at all? Can we not post our opinions freely, like everyone else here, because we have the ability to moderate?

And I'm sorry, when someone supports attacks on our troops, whether appropriate or via terrorism, I am going to speak my mind. I love each and every one of our troops, and to see someone "rooting" against them, in any way, is disheartening to me.

But I shouldn't be able to speak my mind because I am a moderator? If you're going to publicly criticize staff members, at least make it when we actually do something that every other member on this board can't do.

Btw, i respect that attitude of yours very much :salute:

jimnyc
12-30-2010, 07:38 PM
Jim, when did i deny that i agree with attacking US troops in Iraq or Afghanistan ???

A few people have inferred that "I" was wrong in my anger, and that it was a communication breakdown and that you didn't really support the attacking of US troops.

You post here as a "peaceful" Muslim and try and make friends with many here, a few enlisted, many veterans - and at the same time you are supporting attacks against their brothers/sisters in arms.

I won't get into the fact that the US is trying to HELP over there, and you support them being attacked for doing so. It's enough in my book to have no respect for you or your kind when you support our soldiers getting harmed.

jimnyc
12-30-2010, 07:39 PM
Btw, i respect that attitude of yours very much :salute:

You'll salute me as you support harm against US soldiers?

With all due respect, fuck off.

abso
12-30-2010, 07:45 PM
Why not even a single one used the opportunity i gave all of you to lecture me about how some muslims believe in the war against terrorism and participate in it, you should have used that chance to tell me that i should do the same as that colonel.

instead of defelcting the whole topic on my personality, you should have defelcted it on the colonel's personality.

Think positive.

abso
12-30-2010, 07:46 PM
You'll salute me as you support harm against US soldiers?

With all due respect, fuck off.

yup, i am free to have any opinion i like, isnt that the freedom that america is all about ? :rolleyes:

jimnyc
12-30-2010, 07:51 PM
yup, i am free to have any opinion i like, isnt that the freedom that america is all about ? :rolleyes:

The freedom that America is all about is graciously given to us by our US Military Forces, and I for one don't take our freedoms for granted.

abso
12-30-2010, 07:52 PM
A few people have inferred that "I" was wrong in my anger, and that it was a communication breakdown and that you didn't really support the attacking of US troops.

You post here as a "peaceful" Muslim and try and make friends with many here, a few enlisted, many veterans - and at the same time you are supporting attacks against their brothers/sisters in arms.

I won't get into the fact that the US is trying to HELP over there, and you support them being attacked for doing so. It's enough in my book to have no respect for you or your kind when you support our soldiers getting harmed.

I never asked for any respect, respect is earned not asked for, and if you choose not to respect me, you are free to do so.

yes, i am a peaceful muslim, supporting the legal right ot any people to resist a force that they see as an occupation doesnt mean that i want your brothers/sisters to die.

by the way, i never supported any attack against your "sisters", i dont believe in attacking women, maybe i believe in equality, but not that much :rolleyes:

the main point that you and me disagree about, is that you see me as someone who just support attacking your soliders without any reasons, while i have clearly stated, that i support the right of Iraqi people who consider americans as an occupation force to attack it.

you are a hypocrite when you force your own ideas on other people, you want to force the idea that US army is there to help, while many Iraqi people refuse that idea, they consider the US army an occupation force, and i support such Iraqi in their legitimate right to resist the occupation.

its their land, so only them have the right to decide whether you are occupation or not, you dont get to invade a country then say that you are there to help, they have the right to accept your help and welcome you as a guest, or consider you as unwelcomed guest, an armed guest that forces his existence in their home, so they have a legal right to attack you.

jimnyc
12-30-2010, 07:55 PM
its their land, so only them have the right to decide whether you are occupation or not, you dont get to invade a country then say that you are there to help, they have the right to accept your help and welcome you as a guest, or consider you as unwelcomed guest, an armed guest that forces his existence in their home, so they have a legal right to attack you.

And yet we are still there at the request of the Iraqi government. Would that not make us a "guest" at this point?

abso
12-30-2010, 08:02 PM
And yet we are still there at the request of the Iraqi government. Would that not make us a "guest" at this point?

to the Iraqi government that most of Iraqi people doesnt like, british forces were accepted to stay after they invaded egypt, they were accepted by the King, but that didnt stop egyptians from attacking them.

will you accept a russian invasion if your president accepts it ?, you will just call him a traitor and fight the russians, right ?

most Iraqi people see US army as occupation force, they dont agree with the position of Iraqi government.

i compared the situation of US army in Iraq, with the situation of US army in Saudia, i said that in Saudia you were invited in to be a guest, you entered as a guest, you didnt invade, so i dont support attacking any US army soliders in Saudia, they are guests there, but in Iraq, you entered as invasion, so dont expect people to ever think of you as a guest.

Jim, do you really think that Iraqi people welcome the US army to be their guests after "Abu Gharib" or the many rape cases, will they ever accept such existence when they hear about group of american soliders raping a girl then killing her along with her family after that ?, so those soliders you are proud of too ?

i would say that such "rare incidents" as you call them, form the main reason for the Iraqi people hatred towards the american presence, they will never accept invaders as their protectors, because what you forgot, its that when you invaded, you killed their brothers and sisters.


so bottom line, they dont welcome US army as guest, they consider it occupation.

jimnyc
12-30-2010, 08:11 PM
so bottom line, they dont welcome US army as guest, they consider it occupation.

And the US troops are not "attacking" them. So therefore they have an opportunity to handle this via different measures. Instead, they choose to attack us. And you support that.

abso
12-30-2010, 08:15 PM
And the US troops are not "attacking" them. So therefore they have an opportunity to handle this via different measures. Instead, they choose to attack us. And you support that.

british forces werent attacking egyptians and killing them randomly, yet we resisted their occupation !!!

occupation throughout history does not attack people of a country after it invade it, it just try to stabilize the situation, but people always attack the forces they see as an occupation, they are free to choose the means, some of them choose to write about it, some of them politicaly ask for american soliders to get out, some of them choose to fight, its all legal means to fight occupation, you cant deny people their right to consider you an Unwelcomed Guest, you cant force your Guest status, such status is given by the people, not forced over them.

jimnyc
12-30-2010, 08:20 PM
You yourself said how many died so far? About a million or so? And you think it's ok for these people to attack us for no reason other than they disagree with us being there or occupying their land.

How many US troops have died so far? About 4500 or so?

1,000,000 to 4,500

Looks like there's an ass whoopin' taking place and you people are getting "knocked the fuck out" by the people who would be there helping if they didn't attack them.

Seems to me that your logic as to WHY they are attacking us, and why you support it, is failing miserably.

abso
12-30-2010, 08:33 PM
You yourself said how many died so far? About a million or so? And you think it's ok for these people to attack us for no reason other than they disagree with us being there or occupying their land.

How many US troops have died so far? About 4500 or so?

1,000,000 to 4,500

Looks like there's an ass whoopin' taking place and you people are getting "knocked the fuck out" by the people who would be there helping if they didn't attack them.

Seems to me that your logic as to WHY they are attacking us, and why you support it, is failing miserably.

i dont want anymore deaths, am just saying that i see that they have a legal right to attack you if they dont welcome you, i guess you would also attack someone who force himself into your house if you dont agree with him being there, even if he is there to help, if you as him out, and he says okay but few hours from now when you are safe, you will just attack him because you dont want him to stay few hours, in case of Iraqi, they dont want US army to stay few years more.

about the 1 million death, of course that number is not done by the US army, but its because of the invasion, the high death rates arent among resistence, those people rarely engage in direct battles in which they lose their life, the people who die the most, are innocents, from the terrorism, bombs in markets, roads, puplic buildings, so terrorism is the main cause of death in Iraq, but what unleashed such terrorism is the invasion which broke the control that Saddam had over the country without finding any alternative for controlling it.

jimnyc
12-30-2010, 08:40 PM
i dont want anymore deaths, am just saying that i see that they have a legal right to attack you if they dont welcome you, i guess you would also attack someone who force himself into your house if you dont agree with him being there, even if he is there to help, if you as him out, and he says okay but few hours from now when you are safe, you will just attack him because you dont want him to stay few hours, in case of Iraqi, they dont want US army to stay few years more.

about the 1 million death, of course that number is not done by the US army, but its because of the invasion, the high death rates arent among resistence, those people rarely engage in direct battles in which they lose their life, the people who die the most, are innocents, from the terrorism, bombs in markets, roads, puplic buildings, so terrorism is the main cause of death in Iraq, but what unleashed such terrorism is the invasion which broke the control that Saddam had over the country without finding any alternative for controlling it.

The same people that are killing one another over sectarian violence are the ones attacking the US troops. The people you support attacking US troops are the ones killing all the Iraqi's. Kinda ironic, huh?

abso
12-30-2010, 08:41 PM
have i ever said that i laugh and get very happy whenever i hear about an american solider who dies in Iraq or Afghanistan ?

i don't do that, i think about his family, his parent's grieve, a wife he may have waiting for him to return safely, children who love him and wants their father back, friends who miss him, i think about that, i dont laugh, i dont enjoy hearing such news.

Gaffer
12-30-2010, 08:43 PM
Abso, I am guessing that due to your age you weren't aware of much of the news around iraq in 2003, other than what you would have seen in passing. Most kids don't really follow the news.

The US invaded iraq because saddam had disregarded 12 UN resolutions, he kicked out the UN inspectors, he defied the world, he cheated on sanctions, he repeatedly fired on US and British aircraft patrolling the no fly zone. He was suspected of having WMD's but they were not the main concern for the invasion. He was not living up to his end of the cease fire he signed in 1991.

The US invaded, along with the British and support troops from 40 other countries. They fought the iraqi army and fayadeen troops made up of other arab nationals. Most of the fighting after that was with fayadeen and al quaeda forces who went into iraq through syria. Those fighters hide among the population, so there were civilian casualties. Most of the fighting after that was tribal warfare and secular warfare between sunni's and shea.

The US did not want to occupy iraq. The short time that the troops stood down anarchy ruled there. It took years to get a stable government and they still don't have one that actually works. The troops there are not fighting iraqi's that want the US out. They are fighting religious zealots that will go anywhere they can attack Americans. So your support is totally misdirected.

In afghan it's the same thing. We went there to clean out al queda and the taliban that support them. All are religious fanatics and not nationalists fighting for their country. And they are fighting NATO, not just the US. al quaeda was using afghan as a base of operations, they want it back.

WMD's, that is a subject that belongs strictly to the liberals and the liberal media in this country. It was what they used to make Bush look bad, as he was becoming very popular and they wanted reduce that popularity. Every liberal in congress, before the invasion, was calling for an invasion of iraq. They listed WMD's as the primary reason. Then when the invasion took place they suddenly switched and declared it unnecessary and illegal.

You live under an autocracy. Mubarak is basically a dictator. I have noticed that arabs seem to function better under the so called "iron fist" type of ruler you referred too. I think that stems from your religion as well. islam means submission. With the exception of Israel and Turkey all the middle east countries are one man rule. Some have parliaments, but those act only in an advisory capacity. The iron fist concept runs very deep in your part of the world.

Just my observations.

abso
12-30-2010, 08:44 PM
The same people that are killing one another over sectarian violence are the ones attacking the US troops. The people you support attacking US troops are the ones killing all the Iraqi's. Kinda ironic, huh?

no, those are terrorists, i said many times, i only support resistence not terrorism, what i consider legal resistence is what targets the armed occupation only, not its civilians and of course not Iraqi people, and i dont accept collateral damage, if they will injure even 1 innocent civilian then i consider it as terrorism, maybe that last part is so naive of me, but thats my belief, that none should accept collateral damage.

abso
12-30-2010, 08:55 PM
Abso, I am guessing that due to your age you weren't aware of much of the news around iraq in 2003, other than what you would have seen in passing. Most kids don't really follow the news.

The US invaded iraq because saddam had disregarded 12 UN resolutions, he kicked out the UN inspectors, he defied the world, he cheated on sanctions, he repeatedly fired on US and British aircraft patrolling the no fly zone. He was suspected of having WMD's but they were not the main concern for the invasion. He was not living up to his end of the cease fire he signed in 1991.

The US invaded, along with the British and support troops from 40 other countries. They fought the iraqi army and fayadeen troops made up of other arab nationals. Most of the fighting after that was with fayadeen and al quaeda forces who went into iraq through syria. Those fighters hide among the population, so there were civilian casualties. Most of the fighting after that was tribal warfare and secular warfare between sunni's and shea.

The US did not want to occupy iraq. The short time that the troops stood down anarchy ruled there. It took years to get a stable government and they still don't have one that actually works. The troops there are not fighting iraqi's that want the US out. They are fighting religious zealots that will go anywhere they can attack Americans. So your support is totally misdirected.

In afghan it's the same thing. We went there to clean out al queda and the taliban that support them. All are religious fanatics and not nationalists fighting for their country. And they are fighting NATO, not just the US. al quaeda was using afghan as a base of operations, they want it back.

WMD's, that is a subject that belongs strictly to the liberals and the liberal media in this country. It was what they used to make Bush look bad, as he was becoming very popular and they wanted reduce that popularity. Every liberal in congress, before the invasion, was calling for an invasion of iraq. They listed WMD's as the primary reason. Then when the invasion took place they suddenly switched and declared it unnecessary and illegal.

You live under an autocracy. Mubarak is basically a dictator. I have noticed that arabs seem to function better under the so called "iron fist" type of ruler you referred too. I think that stems from your religion as well. islam means submission. With the exception of Israel and Turkey all the middle east countries are one man rule. Some have parliaments, but those act only in an advisory capacity. The iron fist concept runs very deep in your part of the world.

Just my observations.

Firstly, i would like to thank you for presenting your point of view in such a respectful manner.

secondly i would like to say, that my support isnt misdirected as you say, because i dont support zealots that US army wants to fight, i dont support terrorists, i support US army in killing terrorists, but my support lies with the legal resistence that refuses the existence of foreign troops on their homeland.

i am not saying that you want to occupy Iraq or afghanistan, or even talking about the intentions, thats is another discussion.

about UN resolution ignored by Iraq, its true, but its also true that UN didnt allow US to invade Iraq, no such resolution were made, US acted outside the legal frame of UN, so the whole war was illegal.

Israel Ignored alot of UN resolutions, maybe more than Iraq did, i am not sure about the number.

all i am saying is that if a home owner think of you as occupation, then he has the right to legal resistence, i know that you didnt go there to occupy, but i also know that you werent invited in, and that US killed alot of Iraqi good people, in alot of well known cases, so Iraqi people will never accept the help coming from an army which killed their brothers and sisters.


about Al-Qaeda, and terrorists, i do agree with killing them, i dont have any problem with that, but i am sure that you agree with me that they werent active in Iraq before the war, the war that broke the control Saddam had over the country allowed terrorism to spread, US should have thought about how to control the country after it throw down the control Saddam had.


about Mubarak, thats another issue, if you want to discuss that, then tell me later what you know about him that make you say that he is a dictator, and since when US take dictators as allies ?

Gaffer
12-30-2010, 09:24 PM
al quaeda had a training camp in northern iraq. saddam financed terror groups including hamas and hezbo along with the muslim brotherhood and other groups. He gave sanctuary to known terrorists and hijackers. Anybody that was against America could count on his support.

There is not a big uprising in iraq. Attacks on US troops are rare. Its' mostly fighting among themselves that is causing the casualties. Would there be as many dead now if he was still in power, probably. He had no qualms about wiping out hundreds of thousands of people to keep them in line. His sons were even worse.

As an aside, the un passes resolutions against Israel once a week and have since 1948. The un is the most anti-Semitic organization on the planet.

abso
12-30-2010, 09:36 PM
al quaeda had a training camp in northern iraq. saddam financed terror groups including hamas and hezbo along with the muslim brotherhood and other groups. He gave sanctuary to known terrorists and hijackers. Anybody that was against America could count on his support.

There is not a big uprising in iraq. Attacks on US troops are rare. Its' mostly fighting among themselves that is causing the casualties. Would there be as many dead now if he was still in power, probably. He had no qualms about wiping out hundreds of thousands of people to keep them in line. His sons were even worse.

As an aside, the un passes resolutions against Israel once a week and have since 1948. The un is the most anti-Semitic organization on the planet.

thats basicly what i said, that attacks against US army are rare, i only support those rare resistance attacks, were no civilians are involved at all, but i dont support terrorism or Al-Qaeda.

about UN resolutions against Israel, they doesnt matter as long as USA keep using its VETO against everything condemining Israel, anyway lets not deflect this discussion on Israel, i will send you an article about that side discussion in a private message.

CAPTDASH
12-31-2010, 12:00 AM
ABSO, this is meant to TOTALLY disrespect you. If you read further it is your fault. That is my informed consent for this post.

You are a complete fool. While I find only a couple of points I can agree with you on, I find 2 main points that you have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

1) The Iraqi people are glad that the US is there. Our soldiers are building schools, govt buildings, and more importantly HOPE for a future without IRON FIST DICTATOR RULE. Please point me to ONE instance where an Iraqi clivilian has attacked an American Soldier. I don't think you can. While I do not agree with the atrocities that went on at Abhu Grab, You and I only know the story told by the media. Neither of us know the truth. There are bad American Soldiers, like any other section of any society. They deserve to be punished for their crimes, and I will even go along with punishment normal for those crimes in Iraq. I have no issue with that.
The people attacking US Soldiers in Iraq are NOT civilians but terrorists who are also killing Iraqi civies. Do you understand that? Have you ever been to Iraq to see the good we are doing there? I know you haven't so just STFU about it. OK.

2) Afghan civies are glad we are there. I am not. I am tired of bullshit with Corrupt govt of Afghanistan. I say let the Taliban have that shithole of a country. We cannot win in Afghanistan if the rules are not changed. It is turning into something worse than Vietnam. The soldiers, and I know I can speak for many of them do not like how they are having to fight over there. The Afghan civies are not the problem. The Taliban are the ones who commit atrocities against civies and soldiers. It is that plain and simple. Can you understand that?

There is NO Occupation of either country. Instead of wasting your time on studies which apparently have not taught you very much, why don't you go to Iraq and check things out first hand. If you will wait til the last of the summer of 2011, you can meet me there as I am expected to return there. I won't kill you, I promise.

Get some comic books to read. You will learn more from them than you do where ever you are getting your education. :laugh:

CAPTDASH
12-31-2010, 12:03 AM
no i dont have low tolerance for women speaking to me, but you are the one who have no tolerance at all for young man speaking to you, you all think that because you are older than me, it automaticly means that you are right, i dont feel any difference while talking to a women or man, they both are equal to me.

doesnt matter if the women is disrespecting me, an insult is an insult, doesnt matter where it came from, a man or a women, its still just an insult, and i dont remember that i have even disrespected you or talked to you in any different way than every other person in this forum, while you may seem to be respectful a little more than other people while talking to me, but still you try to pervert everything i say to prove a wrong idea that you already have about me.

and i dont feel any male superiority at all, just because i told you to find someone to explain my words to you, doesnt mean that i am saying that i am superior, its just because i got tired from your wrong understanding of my words, you pervert everything i say, but i guess that i shouldnt be surprised at all, because its a habit that everyone around here pervert my words.

and about intellect, it isnt about reading, the women i have isnt ignorant, she is in a very prestigious university in egypt, she is actually getting better education than mine :laugh:, she is studing Pharmacy, her father is a univeristy professor in Pharmacy college.

she just dont like politics or reading long stories, but that doesnt mean that she is stupid, she just dont share the same hobby i have, each one of us has certain interests, we just dont share the interest in politics and books.

and by the way, you just got another wrong thing again, i said 20 pages, not 20 minutes, she just like short stories, because she gets bored easily if she reads long books, so she prefer reading the newspaper, or short stories, and she actually likes reading newspapers very much.

please dont talk about me again like if you really understand me, none in this forum will ever be able to understand me while having such offensive attitude towards me.

If she just likes short stories, then you better evaluate your relationship, as she is probably bored of you as well. You apparently have not only a short story, but the SAME OLD short story. The only reason anyone could say your girlfriend is stupid, is because she is with YOU. :slap:

logroller
12-31-2010, 02:09 AM
We and other Iraqi citizens are now being attacked by terrorists and religious radicals, which is just another name for a fucking terrorist.

Terrorism is an heinous act, regardless of motive. The tying of religion to these despicable acts serves to polarize otherwise rational people to condone terrorist actions. Anyone who plays into this trap has, in a de facto manner, helped further the terrorists' cause. Using religion to support the killing of others isn't unique to Islam mind you; Christiandom has an adequately murderous past. So we all must be mindful of casting stones.

The vets I know said that, typically, when shit went down civilians were nowhere in sight; so civilians know when an attack is imminant; either they don't want us there and were party to the attack or they're too scared to report a threat for fear of repercussions. Either way, we don't have the respect of the Iraqi people and I doubt we'll earn it through a continued presense, as a guest or not.



It is not HATE ABSO. It is REALITY. Everyone always remembers the bad shit. Hoorah for the soldier you mentioned, but at the end of the day, and the truth of the matter is he was after a piece of ass and he did what he had to do to get it. Islam was just a means to an end. Deal with the truth, not the idea that you clowns are freedom loving human beings.

Like Mama said from "Waterboy", You are the devil. :slap:

Ummm. The only truth I read in the above message is you believe company of a woman and getting laid are one and the same. I'm hoping I'm not the only one who caught that, talk about misogyny. Tell her she smells great, laugh at her jokes, complement her dress and convert to Islam; I don't remember it that way when I was dating, but its been awhile.
Funny you'd quote a line that embodies being self-centered and ignorant, it fits your general demeanor!


Muslims like dominating their women. I don't have to tell you what a drag it is to see a beautiful woman in a Muslim country, and you cannot even greet her or anything. ABSO- what is it 10 paces behind you that your lady must walk behind you because she is not good enough to walk with you? Wait, I said lady, y'all call them property much like the slave owners from the old south. What a piece of work ABSO is.

He is making her read the Koran which condones killing innocent people and she is probably weary from all that vile crap. If she was real smart she would run for her life. ABSO will probably strap a bomb to her and get her to walk into the American embassy in Cairo. :salute:

Save it for the cage!


Do you really? Did we "moderate" at all? Can we not post our opinions freely, like everyone else here, because we have the ability to moderate?

And I'm sorry, when someone supports attacks on our troops, whether appropriate or via terrorism, I am going to speak my mind. I love each and every one of our troops, and to see someone "rooting" against them, in any way, is disheartening to me.

But I shouldn't be able to speak my mind because I am a moderator? If you're going to publicly criticize staff members, at least make it when we actually do something that every other member on this board can't do.

When you carry the flag on your shoulder, you're no longer an individual. You are a representative of a great and powerful nation. If someone attacks you, they attack America. You are also bound by an allegiance to your country, fellow soldier and the rules of warfare. If your command says attack, you attack; no questions asked. I agree in supporting our troops unconditionally, but why are we in the undeclared war Iraq Freedom, it's a farce; has been since its inception. If this were Desert Strom, I'd be more supportive our cause for invasion, but we weren't there for freedom or any other highly touted American value. We called it done when the oil security of Saudi Arabia was satisfied. Then, Saddam crushed any potential allies we'd have in the country that believed freedom was our mission. Then GWB saught to finish the job his father failed to; but once again we secured oil interests before indigenous freedom. The whole endeavor makes us look like a bunch of selfish pricks; it's no surprise there's a bunch of assholes trying to kill us. Don't get me wrong, its fun to be the strongest, all the bombs and cool weaponry being put to the use, way cool-- but I don't think any core American values have been evidenced in this war.


The freedom that America is all about is graciously given to us by our US Military Forces, and I for one don't take our freedoms for granted.

The military defends our freedoms, it doesn't dispense them-- that thinking might be Iraq is such a mess. Why are we in Iraq anyway?


You yourself said how many died so far? About a million or so? And you think it's ok for these people to attack us for no reason other than they disagree with us being there or occupying their land.

How many US troops have died so far? About 4500 or so?

1,000,000 to 4,500

Looks like there's an ass whoopin' taking place and you people are getting "knocked the fuck out" by the people who would be there helping if they didn't attack them.

Seems to me that your logic as to WHY they are attacking us, and why you support it, is failing miserably.

That's right Jim, we are powerful and can impose our will on others; regular yankee doodles we are. But we went into Iraq for what, to kill more than we lose ourselves and topple the Saddam Regime-- mission accomplished. Now what are we there for-- Operation whoopsy didn't think this through very well.

abso
12-31-2010, 05:28 AM
If she just likes short stories, then you better evaluate your relationship, as she is probably bored of you as well. You apparently have not only a short story, but the SAME OLD short story. The only reason anyone could say your girlfriend is stupid, is because she is with YOU. :slap:

Insults to me is something i could tolerate, but insults to the woman i love is not something that i would tolerate, i have always knew that you are rude with no manners at all, but i didnt imagine that you would be that low.

abso
12-31-2010, 05:32 AM
Muslims like dominating their women. I don't have to tell you what a drag it is to see a beautiful woman in a Muslim country, and you cannot even greet her or anything. ABSO- what is it 10 paces behind you that your lady must walk behind you because she is not good enough to walk with you? Wait, I said lady, y'all call them property much like the slave owners from the old south. What a piece of work ABSO is.

He is making her read the Koran which condones killing innocent people and she is probably weary from all that vile crap. If she was real smart she would run for her life. ABSO will probably strap a bomb to her and get her to walk into the American embassy in Cairo. :salute:

no i am not making her read Quran or read anything, and about Quran, she read it without me telling her, her father memorize the whole Quran, every page in it, and she memorize about third of it, but me, i dont memorize anything in it, just less than 4 pages :rolleyes:.

her family is more religious than mine, but they dont condone terrorism or accept it.

again you say that Quran condone killing innocents, have any verse to prove your claim, or are you just a liar ?

abso
12-31-2010, 06:01 AM
but at the end of the day, and the truth of the matter is he was after a piece of ass and he did what he had to do to get it.

thats some interesting respect you have for women....

Kathianne, thats what non-misogynist say about women ?

if its like that, then i prefer to be called misogynist than to call a woman "piece of ass" :rolleyes:

abso
12-31-2010, 06:06 AM
Muslims like dominating their women. I don't have to tell you what a drag it is to see a beautiful woman in a Muslim country, and you cannot even greet her or anything. ABSO- what is it 10 paces behind you that your lady must walk behind you because she is not good enough to walk with you? Wait, I said lady, y'all call them property much like the slave owners from the old south. What a piece of work ABSO is.

He is making her read the Koran which condones killing innocent people and she is probably weary from all that vile crap. If she was real smart she would run for her life. ABSO will probably strap a bomb to her and get her to walk into the American embassy in Cairo. :salute:

did i say that women has to walk behind me ?

did i say that women is not good enough to walk with me ?

did i say that women is my property ?

did i say that women is my slaves ?

did i say that i like dominating women ?

did i say that you cant greet a beautiful woman ?

did i say that i make women read Quran ?

did i say that Quran condone killing innocents ?


8 stupid completely wrong assumtions in one reply, you really set a new record for stupidity :rolleyes:.

anyone else notice how everyone is saying all sort of wrong things about me that i never said that i do or will do ?

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 07:38 AM
Terrorism is an heinous act, regardless of motive. The tying of religion to these despicable acts serves to polarize otherwise rational people to condone terrorist actions. Anyone who plays into this trap has, in a de facto manner, helped further the terrorists' cause. Using religion to support the killing of others isn't unique to Islam mind you; Christiandom has an adequately murderous past. So we all must be mindful of casting stones.

Tell that to the religious radicals who are killing one another and then trying to attack our troops. It's not me tying religion to them.


When you carry the flag on your shoulder, you're no longer an individual. You are a representative of a great and powerful nation. If someone attacks you, they attack America. You are also bound by an allegiance to your country, fellow soldier and the rules of warfare. If your command says attack, you attack; no questions asked. I agree in supporting our troops unconditionally, but why are we in the undeclared war Iraq Freedom, it's a farce; has been since its inception. If this were Desert Strom, I'd be more supportive our cause for invasion, but we weren't there for freedom or any other highly touted American value. We called it done when the oil security of Saudi Arabia was satisfied. Then, Saddam crushed any potential allies we'd have in the country that believed freedom was our mission. Then GWB saught to finish the job his father failed to; but once again we secured oil interests before indigenous freedom. The whole endeavor makes us look like a bunch of selfish pricks; it's no surprise there's a bunch of assholes trying to kill us. Don't get me wrong, its fun to be the strongest, all the bombs and cool weaponry being put to the use, way cool-- but I don't think any core American values have been evidenced in this war.

What a big paragraph of absolute shit. Doesn't matter though, as it has nothing to do with people attacking us that we are not attacking, and someone supporting those people. And it's those people that are destroying Iraq. Troops follow ORDERS, they are not politicians. They do their jobs honorably and are not after civilians.

Just answer this question, yes or no - do you support American troops being attacked in Iraq or Afghanistan?


The military defends our freedoms, it doesn't dispense them-- that thinking might be Iraq is such a mess. Why are we in Iraq anyway?

You honestly don't know? This all started back in 1991. I don't have time to review 20 years for you. But I'll tell you this much, only a deluded fucking idiot still stands around and claims we are there for oil.


That's right Jim, we are powerful and can impose our will on others; regular yankee doodles we are. But we went into Iraq for what, to kill more than we lose ourselves and topple the Saddam Regime-- mission accomplished. Now what are we there for-- Operation whoopsy didn't think this through very well.

Our job was done rather quickly. Tis a shame that the ragheads felt they would continually attack us and then attack one another. We were kind enough to stay behind and help protect the innocents, but if you lift a gun towards our troops they will kill you. Hence the difference in deaths. If they acted like human beings instead of cockroaches, I'm betting the death count would be much different!

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 07:42 AM
did i say that women has to walk behind me ?

did i say that women is not good enough to walk with me ?

did i say that women is my property ?

did i say that women is my slaves ?

did i say that i like dominating women ?

did i say that you cant greet a beautiful woman ?

did i say that i make women read Quran ?

did i say that Quran condone killing innocents ?


8 stupid completely wrong assumtions in one reply, you really set a new record for stupidity :rolleyes:.

anyone else notice how everyone is saying all sort of wrong things about me that i never said that i do or will do ?

No, just the overwhelming majority of muslims treat their women like property. if you're unique, blame your fellow muslims for making you look less-unique. The horrible treatment of women and abuse of women in Islam is extremely well documented. So you don't follow the crap that the quran and hadith teaches, but I posted verses many, many months ago about the treatment of women. You stated you were going to speak to an imam about them and get back to me. Even though I told you not to bother that I had them translated already, it doesn't surprise me that you ran from that thread like a scared little baby. And even if you deny what I had translated by 4 different muslims from 4 different countries - it doesn't matter - the history of treatment against women won't magically change. It's a fucking disgrace and an embarrassment to all of humanity.

abso
12-31-2010, 08:16 AM
No, just the overwhelming majority of muslims treat their women like property. if you're unique, blame your fellow muslims for making you look less-unique. The horrible treatment of women and abuse of women in Islam is extremely well documented. So you don't follow the crap that the quran and hadith teaches, but I posted verses many, many months ago about the treatment of women. You stated you were going to speak to an imam about them and get back to me. Even though I told you not to bother that I had them translated already, it doesn't surprise me that you ran from that thread like a scared little baby. And even if you deny what I had translated by 4 different muslims from 4 different countries - it doesn't matter - the history of treatment against women won't magically change. It's a fucking disgrace and an embarrassment to all of humanity.

do you personally know any muslim who mistreat his woman to prove your claim ? :rolleyes:

you mentioned youself that you know some muslim families, so anyone of them treats his wife as property ?

i live in a muslim community, i know hundreds of families, and i never heared about anyone of them treating his wife as property, never seen my father treating my mother like a property, and never seen any man in my family "and its huge" treats his wife as property, come to egypt and watch yourself thousands of husbands and wifes walking together in the streest with their children before your tell me that they treat their wifes as property, go ask muslim women, see how many can you find that tells you that their husbands treat them as property.

maybe that radicalism you talk about exist in Iran, Saudia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and i say exist, not that its majority there, but such radicalism have no place in many other countries like Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, Morroco, Bangladesh, china, usa, germany, france, spain, and many other places that have millions of muslims.

about verses from Quran, and hadith, please provide me with the link to the article, i may have forgot, because as you know, i explain Quran verses alot in this forum, so i often forget to get back and answer some questions.

you posted a whole topic about Quran verses, and i explained them all, took me several hours by the way, but the verses about women, you must have included them within a large thread that many people were talking in, so i forgot where they are and cant find them, please post them again in a new thread, and i promise i will get back to you with the explaination as i always do.

you must excuse me sometimes when i forget, because as you see, i am alone here, and i often have to reply to 3-6 people at the same time and in different threads, sometimes even more, so sometimes i FORGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET :poke:, so excuse me if you may :rolleyes:.

abso
12-31-2010, 08:18 AM
No, just the overwhelming majority of muslims treat their women like property. if you're unique, blame your fellow muslims for making you look less-unique. The horrible treatment of women and abuse of women in Islam is extremely well documented. So you don't follow the crap that the quran and hadith teaches, but I posted verses many, many months ago about the treatment of women. You stated you were going to speak to an imam about them and get back to me. Even though I told you not to bother that I had them translated already, it doesn't surprise me that you ran from that thread like a scared little baby. And even if you deny what I had translated by 4 different muslims from 4 different countries - it doesn't matter - the history of treatment against women won't magically change. It's a fucking disgrace and an embarrassment to all of humanity.

Btw, you said "NO", so you agree with me that i never said or did what CAPTDASH said about me ?

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 08:39 AM
do you personally know any muslim who mistreat his woman to prove your claim ?

Do you "personally" know an average Joe "resistance" fighter in Iraq? But yet you claim they are there.

Dude, pick up a newspaper, read the internet - the abuse has been an issue for hundreds of years!! I need to know these people personally to "prove" it, even though official newspapers cover the stories all over? LOL Are you stating that since I don't know all these women personally that these stories are fake - even when they come from those countries newspapers?


you mentioned youself that you know some muslim families, so anyone of them treats his wife as property ?

Not here in the States... But only one of my muslim friends is married. He has 3 little girls and a wife. I've seen them tens of times but really never saw them. He makes them wear their veils and they ALWAYS walk behind him. That's as far as he'll get here, as in the US we will charge him with a crime and prosecute him if he goes any further. Many Islamic countries won't do jack shit if a man beats his wife.


i live in a muslim community, i know hundreds of families, and i never heared about anyone of them treating his wife as property, never seen my father treating my mother like a property, and never seen any man in my family "and its huge" treats his wife as property, come to egypt and watch yourself thousands of husbands and wifes walking together in the streest with their children before your tell me that they treat their wifes as property, go ask muslim women, see how many can you find that tells you that their husbands treat them as property.

Do you read newspapers? Are you going to deny that the abuse of muslim women in quite a few countries is a huge issue and needs to be fixed?


maybe that radicalism you talk about exist in Iran, Saudia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and i say exist, not that its majority there, but such radicalism have no place in many other countries like Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, Morroco, Bangladesh, china, usa, germany, france, spain, and many other places that have millions of muslims.

Did I say it existed in EVERY country? Do you REALLY want me to post an article every time I find out about a muslim abusing their women? I'd be posting non-stop!

And yes, I know we have women abusers here in the States too, but if found out about we will prosecute them and send them to jail.


about verses from Quran, and hadith, please provide me with the link to the article, i may have forgot, because as you know, i explain Quran verses alot in this forum, so i often forget to get back and answer some questions.

Not my fault you failed to address what you promised to. Go back through your own posts and find them. But I don't need you to "translate" anything, I've already had it done so by someone from Algeria, Morocco, Jordan... I don't need you to try and clean it up a bit when I already had close friends translate it for me.


you posted a whole topic about Quran verses, and i explained them all, took me several hours by the way, but the verses about women, you must have included them within a large thread that many people were talking in, so i forgot where they are and cant find them, please post them again in a new thread, and i promise i will get back to you with the explaination as i always do.

Don't want nor need your translations. It's a moot point anyway. You'll just deny that these men beat their women as a result of religion. Whatever their reason, Islamic countries have a serious issue on their hands and the problem is that they don't even acknowledge it exists!


you must excuse me sometimes when i forget, because as you see, i am alone here, and i often have to reply to 3-6 people at the same time and in different threads, sometimes even more, so sometimes i FORGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET :poke:, so excuse me if you may :rolleyes:.

Then don't tell people you are specifically going to see an imam about verses and then make it sound like it's MY fault because you forgot.

any way you slice it or dice it - women are treated totally different in "most" islamic countries than any other countries. This is backed up with undeniable facts.

Hell, just show me ONE civilized country outside of Islamic countries, that will kill women for blasphemy, or cane them because they don't have their veils on, or whip them because they had their picture taken, or imprison them for lengthy years because they were seen with a man... disgusting.

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 08:40 AM
Btw, you said "NO", so you agree with me that i never said or did what CAPTDASH said about me ?

Well, according to your standards I can't say what you do and don't do/ I don't know you "personally".

fj1200
12-31-2010, 08:48 AM
Yes it is. He's been writing the same for a long time. Others noticed yesterday, but it's ongoing. As are his outbursts of misogyny.

Did he say he wanted every US soldier dead?

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 08:52 AM
Did he say he wanted every US soldier dead?

Does he need to in order for her post to be fact?

fj1200
12-31-2010, 09:08 AM
Does he need to in order for her post to be fact?

Uhh, yeah.

Kathianne
12-31-2010, 09:10 AM
Uhh, yeah.

No. He wrote enough to make inferences. You are just playing semantics. I understand the extreme responses might provoke it, but I wasn't extreme until he tried to bring up one example and extrapolate from it.

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 09:16 AM
Uhh, yeah.

She referred to his posting history. She was 100% spot on.

CAPTDASH
12-31-2010, 11:19 AM
Insults to me is something i could tolerate, but insults to the woman i love is not something that i would tolerate, i have always knew that you are rude with no manners at all, but i didnt imagine that you would be that low.

If you were very smart at all, you would see the insult was directed to you, not your lady friend. It went right by you because you can't control your hatred for Americans, especially a soldier.

I personally witnessed a Saudi woman beheaded in Saudi Arabia in 1991 for commiting adultery. I personally saw how the women were treated. I personally saw them have to walk 10 paces or whatever the count is behind the men, who would not even acknowledge their presence. I have personally seen how you ragheads treat your women. I have also seen how that Muslim influence has contributed to the degradation of American Female Soldiers, who are not allowed to drive, are forced to ride in the back seat, and who must cover their faces when dealing directly with Muslims. Should I say anymore. Nevermind the fact that this type of treatment towards women has been going on for 1000s of years.

To answer your question, YES I have seen how you(Muslims) treat the fairer sex. Now buzz off.

abso
12-31-2010, 12:10 PM
If you were very smart at all, you would see the insult was directed to you, not your lady friend. It went right by you because you can't control your hatred for Americans, especially a soldier.

I personally witnessed a Saudi woman beheaded in Saudi Arabia in 1991 for commiting adultery. I personally saw how the women were treated. I personally saw them have to walk 10 paces or whatever the count is behind the men, who would not even acknowledge their presence. I have personally seen how you ragheads treat your women. I have also seen how that Muslim influence has contributed to the degradation of American Female Soldiers, who are not allowed to drive, are forced to ride in the back seat, and who must cover their faces when dealing directly with Muslims. Should I say anymore. Nevermind the fact that this type of treatment towards women has been going on for 1000s of years.

To answer your question, YES I have seen how you(Muslims) treat the fairer sex. Now buzz off.

you seen other people doing things, but you have never seen me doing anything from what you said that i do, and i have never said that i do anything from what you said, so dont assume anything about me, there are good muslims and bad muslims, like what you said about army, there are good soliders and bad soliders.

i dont care if you seen men making their wifes to walk behind them, for me,, my wife will be walking beside me, and our children infront of us, not behind us, any member of my family will be walking beside me or ahead of me, to be sure that they are safe, i dont like anyone to walk behind me.

abso
12-31-2010, 12:12 PM
Did he say he wanted every US soldier dead?

doesnt matter, for them, i am a muslim, that itself is a crime in their opinion, any crime that other muslim commit, i also my responsibilty, thats the way they see it.

about US soliders, i dont want anyone dead, not a single one, supporting legal resistence doesnt mean that i want US soliders dead. :salute:

abso
12-31-2010, 12:13 PM
No. He wrote enough to make inferences. You are just playing semantics. I understand the extreme responses might provoke it, but I wasn't extreme until he tried to bring up one example and extrapolate from it.

you shouldnt be extreme at all.

about women, you have a very wrong idea about me.

abso
12-31-2010, 12:14 PM
Well, according to your standards I can't say what you do and don't do/ I don't know you "personally".

good, then if you dont know me personally, then please dont make any assumtions about me.

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 12:18 PM
doesnt matter, for them, i am a muslim, that itself is a crime in their opinion, any crime that other muslim commit, i also my responsibilty, thats the way they see it.

about US soliders, i dont want anyone dead, not a single one, supporting legal resistence doesnt mean that i want US soliders dead. :salute:

No, it's because you said you support attacks against American troops. That means you support harm to American troops. So stop trying to tap dance around what you feel.


good, then if you dont know me personally, then please dont make any assumtions about me.

I'll assume whatever the fuck I want about muslims. But I was speaking of FACTS about muslims in general, and the FACTS are that muslims in general treat their women like shit. That doesn't mean YOU asswipe, but if you take issue with me speaking out against your brethren, then stop THEM from being terrorist sympathizing, supporting women abusers.

abso
12-31-2010, 12:38 PM
Do you "personally" know an average Joe "resistance" fighter in Iraq? But yet you claim they are there.

nope, i dont know personally, thats my point, that i never said that there is actual legal resistence, just said that if there are, i would support it, i said that i support legal resistence, so logically, if it doesnt exist, then no problem, nothing gets my support, but if it exists, then they have my support, but i have never said that they do or do not exist, have i ?

Not here in the States... But only one of my muslim friends is married. He has 3 little girls and a wife. I've seen them tens of times but really never saw them. He makes them wear their veils and they ALWAYS walk behind him. That's as far as he'll get here, as in the US we will charge him with a crime and prosecute him if he goes any further. Many Islamic countries won't do jack shit if a man beats his wife.

in my country, if a man beats his wife, he get arrested, the same if a women hits her husband ;), about walking behind him, nothing at all in Islam says anything about walking infront or behind the man, not religious tradition at all, for me, my children will walk in front of me, so that i always watch over them, to make sure they are save, dont like anyone walking behind me, not my wife, not my kids.

Do you read newspapers? Are you going to deny that the abuse of muslim women in quite a few countries is a huge issue and needs to be fixed?

did i ever deny so ?, i just said that Quran doesnt call for such abuse, but i didnt say that stupid Afghani people or pakistani does not abuse their women.

i am not here to defend stupid muslims who abuse their wifes, or stupid terrorists who attack innocents, i am just here to defend Quran and Islam, i dont like Islam to be called religion of hatred, while i am a muslim, and i have no hatred at all in me, thats all.


And yes, I know we have women abusers here in the States too, but if found out about we will prosecute them and send them to jail.

when found in egypt, they are thrown in jail too.


Not my fault you failed to address what you promised to. Go back through your own posts and find them. But I don't need you to "translate" anything, I've already had it done so by someone from Algeria, Morocco, Jordan... I don't need you to try and clean it up a bit when I already had close friends translate it for me.

and not mine too, every person can forget, we are not perfect creatures, if you are satisfied with what was explained to you, then its fine, i am not here to force people to ask me about explainations which will make me spend some hours in reading to make such explainations.

Don't want nor need your translations. It's a moot point anyway. You'll just deny that these men beat their women as a result of religion. Whatever their reason, Islamic countries have a serious issue on their hands and the problem is that they don't even acknowledge it exists!

yes, i will deny that its a result of religion, its result of their wrong upbringing, and their parents not teaching them good manners, and the family problems they had while kids.

Then don't tell people you are specifically going to see an imam about verses and then make it sound like it's MY fault because you forgot.

i have already consulted Imams many times when i wanted to explain some verses, and i didnt make it sound like its your fault because i forgot, i apologized and asked if you can excuse me for that fault.

any way you slice it or dice it - women are treated totally different in "most" islamic countries than any other countries. This is backed up with undeniable facts.

maybe, but you dont have to be aggressive towards me because of things that other people does, do you think that is fair ?


Hell, just show me ONE civilized country outside of Islamic countries, that will kill women for blasphemy, or cane them because they don't have their veils on, or whip them because they had their picture taken, or imprison them for lengthy years because they were seen with a man... disgusting.

kill women for blasphemy - Pakistan
cane them because they dont have their veils on - Iran
whip them because they had their picture taken - Iran
imrpison them for seen with a man - maybe also Iran.

notice anything ?, such actions happens only in radical countries, but you fail to admit that there are many moderate muslim countries that shouldnt be condemned for something that Iran or Pakistan did.


have a nice day....

abso
12-31-2010, 12:41 PM
I'll assume whatever the fuck I want about muslims. But I was speaking of FACTS about muslims in general, and the FACTS are that muslims in general treat their women like shit. That doesn't mean YOU asswipe, but if you take issue with me speaking out against your brethren, then stop THEM from being terrorist sympathizing, supporting women abusers.

muslims in general include also Egypt, Algeria, Morroco, Tunisia, Qatar, Kuwit, and many other moderate islamic countries, so you are saying that things that happen in Iran and Pakistan, also happen in those countries too ?

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 01:18 PM
muslims in general include also Egypt, Algeria, Morroco, Tunisia, Qatar, Kuwit, and many other moderate islamic countries, so you are saying that things that happen in Iran and Pakistan, also happen in those countries too ?

100% without a doubt, abuse of women happens more in those countries than non-islamic countries. Again, do you want me to continually post article after article of the daily abuses in EVERY islamic country? The board will be overrun with articles!!

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 01:32 PM
I now have to devour this big block of text and reply abnormally because abso is too dumb to use the multi-quote function.
-----------------------------

Do you "personally" know an average Joe "resistance" fighter in Iraq? But yet you claim they are there.

nope, i dont know personally, thats my point, that i never said that there is actual legal resistence, just said that if there are, i would support it, i said that i support legal resistence, so logically, if it doesnt exist, then no problem, nothing gets my support, but if it exists, then they have my support, but i have never said that they do or do not exist, have i ?

No, you didn't say IF, you clearly just wrote that you supported the attacks against American troops. Why would you even mention this if you weren't sure if "legal resistance" existed? I've never seen as much tap dancing as I just saw in the blue pile of shit above.

Not here in the States... But only one of my muslim friends is married. He has 3 little girls and a wife. I've seen them tens of times but really never saw them. He makes them wear their veils and they ALWAYS walk behind him. That's as far as he'll get here, as in the US we will charge him with a crime and prosecute him if he goes any further. Many Islamic countries won't do jack shit if a man beats his wife.

in my country, if a man beats his wife, he get arrested, the same if a women hits her husband ;), about walking behind him, nothing at all in Islam says anything about walking infront or behind the man, not religious tradition at all, for me, my children will walk in front of me, so that i always watch over them, to make sure they are save, dont like anyone walking behind me, not my wife, not my kids.

That's fine, but acknowledge that this shit exists in MANY islamic countries.

Do you read newspapers? Are you going to deny that the abuse of muslim women in quite a few countries is a huge issue and needs to be fixed?

did i ever deny so ?, i just said that Quran doesnt call for such abuse, but i didnt say that stupid Afghani people or pakistani does not abuse their women.

I disagree, as do the muslims who translated the hadith and quran verses.

i am not here to defend stupid muslims who abuse their wifes, or stupid terrorists who attack innocents, i am just here to defend Quran and Islam, i dont like Islam to be called religion of hatred, while i am a muslim, and i have no hatred at all in me, thats all.

And I mention about the abuse of women in islam, and all you do is deny it exists in egypt and refuse to acknowledge its a huge fucking problem in so many other islamic shitholes.


And yes, I know we have women abusers here in the States too, but if found out about we will prosecute them and send them to jail.

when found in egypt, they are thrown in jail too.

Domestic violence tops a long list of discrimination and abuse against women in Egypt. Other crimes include killing, sexual violence, female genital mutilation (FGM), sexual harassment and human trafficking, as well as poverty and inequality.

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2010/986/eg13.htm

Not my fault you failed to address what you promised to. Go back through your own posts and find them. But I don't need you to "translate" anything, I've already had it done so by someone from Algeria, Morocco, Jordan... I don't need you to try and clean it up a bit when I already had close friends translate it for me.

and not mine too, every person can forget, we are not perfect creatures, if you are satisfied with what was explained to you, then its fine, i am not here to force people to ask me about explainations which will make me spend some hours in reading to make such explainations.


Don't want nor need your translations. It's a moot point anyway. You'll just deny that these men beat their women as a result of religion. Whatever their reason, Islamic countries have a serious issue on their hands and the problem is that they don't even acknowledge it exists!

yes, i will deny that its a result of religion, its result of their wrong upbringing, and their parents not teaching them good manners, and the family problems they had while kids.

Why is it that there are SO MANY people in islam that have poor upbringings and end up abusing women?

Then don't tell people you are specifically going to see an imam about verses and then make it sound like it's MY fault because you forgot.

i have already consulted Imams many times when i wanted to explain some verses, and i didnt make it sound like its your fault because i forgot, i apologized and asked if you can excuse me for that fault.

any way you slice it or dice it - women are treated totally different in "most" islamic countries than any other countries. This is backed up with undeniable facts.

maybe, but you dont have to be aggressive towards me because of things that other people does, do you think that is fair ?

I'm just pointing out the facts, if you don't like them, tough shit. You probably don't like what I have to say, no more than me reading that you support cockroaches attacking our troops.


Hell, just show me ONE civilized country outside of Islamic countries, that will kill women for blasphemy, or cane them because they don't have their veils on, or whip them because they had their picture taken, or imprison them for lengthy years because they were seen with a man... disgusting.

kill women for blasphemy - Pakistan
cane them because they dont have their veils on - Iran
whip them because they had their picture taken - Iran
imrpison them for seen with a man - maybe also Iran.

notice anything ?, such actions happens only in radical countries, but you fail to admit that there are many moderate muslim countries that shouldnt be condemned for something that Iran or Pakistan did.

Please, you OUTRIGHT LIE! I have stated MANY times that I know it's not ALL muslims and I am even on record here as stating several times that I believed YOU didn't beat/abuse women. But it's YOU who fails to acknowledge the islam is loaded with fucking terrorists and men who abuse their women. If you don't want to acknowledge it and hopefully help fix it, no sweat off my back.

Now please, ask someone if necessary how to use the multiquote function, I am not replying in this retarded manner again.

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 01:34 PM
What about this one, abso?


Violence and harassment against women seems to be on the increase in Egypt.


According to a report by the Egyptian Centre for Women's Rights, 72% of married women and 94% of girls say they are regularly subject to such abuse.


The annual report also notes that Egyptian women still find it hard to reach decision-making positions at work.


BBC Focus on Africa's Hassan Arouni spoke to our reporter in Cairo, Ranyah Sabry, and asked her what the report says about how women are shaped by Egyptian society?




http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/2010/12/101227_egyptwomenabuse.shtml

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 01:35 PM
And this one:


(May 2010) Violence against women is a costly and pervasive public health problem and a violation of human rights. In Egypt, a third of women are physically abused by their husbands, according to the 2005 Egypt Demographic and Health Survey (DHS). Most victims suffer silently and don’t seek help to prevent or stop the violence because they think it is part of life or they are embarrassed by the abuse.

http://www.prb.org/Articles/2010/domesticviolence-egypt.aspx

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 01:36 PM
And this one:


EGYPT: Abused women reluctant to come forward

Despite the opening of the first safe-house for women in Cairo, few are choosing to leave their abusive marriages due to the social stigma and financial insecurity they would face.

Oum Mohammed was married when she was 16. “From the day I married him, he hit me over matters big and small,” she says of her husband.

“He told me that all women should be beaten. I didn’t protest because I was afraid he’d throw me and my children into the street,” she adds. “I’d seen my father hit my mother, and in every house in the alley a man hits a woman.”

Oum Mohammed’s story is just one of 700 case studies that the Association for the Development and Enhancement of Women (ADEW), a local NGO, has collected over the past several years.

http://www.irinnews.org/Report.aspx?ReportId=26139

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 01:37 PM
Here's one from the UN, do they count?


Through over 10 years of providing needy women with legal aid and consultation through our Legal Empowerment and Aid project, ECWR has learned that women in Egypt are often subject to violence not only from family members and community members, but also by agents of the state, including the police supposedly tasked with the protection of all citizens. In addition, women are constantly subjected to violence in the form of sexual harassment and abuse on the street, and approximately ninety-seven percent of Egyptian women are the victims of female genital mutilation. Women's right to lead a life free of violence is not widely internalized within Egyptian society, resulting in lack of reporting by victims of violence, lack of perpetrators' awareness of the criminality of violence, lack of response from police and the legal system supposedly tasked with enforcing laws prohibiting violence, and perpetration of violence by authorities themselves against women in order to pressure their male relatives. Violence against women in Egypt can be described along the broad categories: violence committed by institutions of the state, domestic violence, female genital mutilation (FGM) , and the structural violence that deprives women of equal participation and a chance to change the conditions that perpetuate the other forms of violence.

http://74.6.238.254/search/srpcache?ei=UTF-8&p=egypt+women+abuse&xa=tlk.u0q6tZutlXJgfOMFVQ--%2C1293906400&fr=yfp-t-701&u=http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=egypt+women+abuse&d=4770489048761882&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=51ce980d,9a5b8ab9&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=mWA_DwkzF3y4aYbWAqj8dA--

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 01:39 PM
And these which I found in a few seconds is from what you call one of the more peaceful/moderate countries - Egypt. I can be here for YEARS posting this shit if I get to the more radical countries.

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 01:41 PM
And another:


Legally brutalised

Women in Egypt have no way out of violent marriages in a society where beatings are acceptable and their rights systematically violated, reports Brian Whitaker


Brutal husbands can be a problem anywhere in the world, but in some countries domestic violence is so common that it's almost an institution.
A survey conducted for the Egyptian government a few years ago found that one woman in three had been beaten at some time by her husband. Of those women, 45% had been beaten at least once in the past year and 17% had been beaten three or more times during the same period.


Shocking as this may seem, most Egyptian women regard beating as a normal and more or less acceptable part of life. Almost 86% of the women surveyed thought husbands were justified in hitting their wives sometimes, and a large majority said a refusal to have sex was sufficient grounds for beating.

The survey also showed the percentage of women aged 20-29 who thought beating was justified for a range of other domestic "offences":
"Talking back" to a husband: 70%
Talking to another man: 65%
Spending too much money: 42%
Burning the dinner: 26%

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/nov/30/worlddispatch.brianwhitaker

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 01:43 PM
Seems you're right abso, you don't have issues with your women in Egypt. Tell that to them then, as you can see the numbers of abuses are astronomical in numbers. We're talking numbers between 30-85% in different cases of abuse. That's a lovely country for freedom to the women!!:laugh2:

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 02:11 PM
A few more good articles/statistics for you to chew on, from Algeria and Morocco. Too lazy to move onto your other suggestions of paradise right now. But the themes appear to be the same, and at HIGH numbers...

Algeria

Spousal abuse is common. There are no specific laws against spousal rape. Rape is illegal, and in principle a spouse could be charged under the law. However, there are strong societal pressures against a woman seeking legal redress against her spouse for rape, and there are no reports of the law being applied in such cases.

http://www.afrol.com/Categories/Women/profiles/algeria_women.htm

Morocco

Morocco, being one of the poorest countries in the Maghreb due to misadministration, has made astonishingly little effort in promoting women's right. Thus, women's situation in Morocco remains among the worst on the continent. Women's rights organisations are however active, trying to address the huge barriers for women in traditional society, further enhanced by backward legislation.

Spousal violence against women is common. While physical abuse is a legal ground for divorce, a court only grants it if the woman is able to provide two witnesses to the abuse. Even medical certificates are not sufficient. Sexual assaults often go unreported because of the stigma attached to the loss of virginity. While not provided for by law, victim's families may offer rapists the opportunity to marry their victims in order to preserve the honor of the family.

http://www.afrol.com/Categories/Women/profiles/morocco_women.htm

logroller
12-31-2010, 02:25 PM
Tell that to the religious radicals who are killing one another and then trying to attack our troops. It's not me tying religion to them.

but you did; when you said religious radicals and terrorists were the same thing! If someone goes around saying 'God hates X' and quotes scripture in support; they have drawn a conclusion where one most likely does not exist; if you go around blaming their religion for their actions, you tacitly support their claim. IMO, This is what is going on with these Jihadists, they have intentionally perverted Islamic teachings to justify bad intentions and methods; so that people will condemn their religion, instead of their actions alone, and thus adding support to their cause.


What a big paragraph of absolute shit. Doesn't matter though, as it has nothing to do with people attacking us that we are not attacking, and someone supporting those people. And it's those people that are destroying Iraq. Troops follow ORDERS, they are not politicians. They do their jobs honorably and are not after civilians.

well it wasn't absolute shit... you qualified atleast one statement


Just answer this question, yes or no - do you support American troops being attacked in Iraq or Afghanistan?

I said I support our troops unconditionally, but since you failed to read the full post- i'll just say NO!

Yes or no; Do you support our government's actions being attacked?


You honestly don't know? This all started back in 1991. I don't have time to review 20 years for you. But I'll tell you this much, only a deluded fucking idiot still stands around and claims we are there for oil.

Yea I know, I mentioned Desert Storm. Perhaps you are unable argue against my position in a logical manner, but if I am indeed wrong on why we're there (to which you provided no such evidence), that doesn't make me "a deluded fucking idiot", only mistaken, to which you could challenge with support of an alternative purpose. I was asking what you believe in hopes you'd premise some logical argument which could be debated, not just deride my whole being and cast insults; but I guess you find it easier to attack a position than defend one. Fucking weak man, I know you're capable of better behavior, I've read it on here before, and hope you'll find better ways of expressing yourself.



Our job was done rather quickly. Tis a shame that the ragheads felt they would continually attack us and then attack one another. We were kind enough to stay behind and help protect the innocents, but if you lift a gun towards our troops they will kill you. Hence the difference in deaths. If they acted like human beings instead of cockroaches, I'm betting the death count would be much different!

Tis a shame we marginalize a class of people by their attire-- It's racist!

Do soldiers protect innocents with kindness...or an M-16?:salute:

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 02:35 PM
but you did; when you said religious radicals and terrorists were the same thing! If someone goes around saying 'God hates X' and quotes scripture in support; they have drawn a conclusion where one most likely does not exist; if you go around blaming their religion for their actions, you tacitly support their claim. IMO, This is what is going on with these Jihadists, they have intentionally perverted Islamic teachings to justify bad intentions and methods; so that people will condemn their religion, instead of their actions alone, and thus adding support to their cause.[/quotes]

Do you know what sectarian violence means? You do realize it's religious denominations fighting over there? If you're fighting because of religion, and killing as a result - you are a religious radical.

[QUOTE]well it wasn't absolute shit... you qualified atleast one statement


Nope, read it again and it's still parroted liberal shit I've been reading for years.


I said I support our troops unconditionally, but since you failed to read the full post- i'll just say NO!

Yes or no; Do you support our government's actions being attacked?


Governments actions, yes, support our troops being attacked, no, and I won't sit back while some backwoods idiot states here that they support that of our troops.


Yea I know, I mentioned Desert Storm. Perhaps you are unable argue against my position in a logical manner, but if I am indeed wrong on why we're there (to which you provided no such evidence), that doesn't make me "a deluded fucking idiot", only mistaken, to which you could challenge with support of an alternative purpose. I was asking what you believe in hopes you'd premise some logical argument which could be debated, not just deride my whole being and cast insults; but I guess you find it easier to attack a position than defend one. Fucking weak man, I know you're capable of better behavior, I've read it on here before, and hope you'll find better ways of expressing yourself.

Nothing to argue in a logical manner. I know exactly the things that took place over 12 years that lead to us going into Iraq. Crap about the oil and finishing a war his father started is just crap to obfuscate the real issues. I've been reading this tripe from liberals starting from before we even went into Iraq. And there's no debating and detailing facts to your kind, you will just ignore it and go with innuendo and rhetoric instead of the facts that were stated many times as to why we entered Iraq.


Tis a shame we marginalize a class of people by their attire-- It's racist!

Yeah, and? Don't even get me started on the women who are forced to wear veils and burqas.


Do soldiers protect innocents with kindness...or an M-16?:salute:

Neither, they are not trained to be kind, but they get by. Are soldiers are trained to kill. So when those we are trying to protect attack our soldiers, they do what is natural, and kill the cockroaches.

logroller
12-31-2010, 02:41 PM
I had a friend in the 3/5, who has since joined special forces; but he'll forever be a marine. Honor, Courage and Commitment are the values he upholds; Get Some with kindness? :laugh::laugh::laugh:.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/enm9Dhp79Vk" frameborder="0"></iframe>

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 02:55 PM
abso supports our troops getting attacked by "legal resistance". This is what I support happening to the "legal resistance"

NSFW for some - funny as hell to me!!

<object width="450" height="370"><param name="movie" value="http://www.liveleak.com/e/8c4cfc9028"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.liveleak.com/e/8c4cfc9028" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" allowscriptaccess="always" width="450" height="370"></embed></object>

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 03:00 PM
Here's one of the guys that abso supports being shot about 20ft into the air!!! LOL

<object width="450" height="370"><param name="movie" value="http://www.liveleak.com/e/d81_1235653778"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.liveleak.com/e/d81_1235653778" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" allowscriptaccess="always" width="450" height="370"></embed></object>

logroller
12-31-2010, 03:25 PM
Nope, read it again

I did, even ABSO, with his language barrier, could equate these two.



If your command says attack, you attack; no questions asked. .
=


Troops follow ORDERS






Nothing to argue in a logical manner... And there's no debating and detailing facts to your kind, you will just ignore it and go with innuendo and rhetoric instead of the facts that were stated many times as to why we entered Iraq.

...do what is natural, and kill the cockroaches.

My kind, huh? Label me as a lib or a commie, dehumanize people to the level of a rat or cockroach and push for the final solution-- Operation Pest Control, sponsored by Jimnyc.:poke:

trobinett
12-31-2010, 03:26 PM
abso posts:


about Jim, he has the right to be upset, everyone have the right to be upset when i say that i support attacking their country troops, but i also have the right to support legal resistence in any country allover the world, you see your army as a liberation force for Iraq, but i say that most of Iraqi people see it as an occupation force, and as i already said, Iraqi people will never accept the existence of american troops in their country, they will always consider it as occupation.

Well abso, we'll see if the Iraqi people have those feelings YOU think they have, AFTER our troops pull out of Iraqi, and things start to go back to the way it was before our LIBERATION force showed up.

What say we have this conversation in a couple of years?:slap:

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 03:28 PM
My kind, huh? Label me as a lib or a commie, dehumanize people to the level of a rat or cockroach and push for the final solution-- Operation Pest Control, sponsored by Jimnyc.:poke:

1,000,000 dead muslims

It appears my way is pretty damn successful. If they want to act like subhumans, they will be treated as such.

abso
12-31-2010, 03:28 PM
100% without a doubt, abuse of women happens more in those countries than non-islamic countries. Again, do you want me to continually post article after article of the daily abuses in EVERY islamic country? The board will be overrun with articles!!

post everything you can about egypt, lets see what will you find :rolleyes:

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 03:29 PM
post everything you can about egypt, lets see what will you find :rolleyes:

Already did, dumbass

abso
12-31-2010, 03:39 PM
I now have to devour this big block of text and reply abnormally because abso is too dumb to use the multi-quote function.
-----------------------------

Do you "personally" know an average Joe "resistance" fighter in Iraq? But yet you claim they are there.

nope, i dont know personally, thats my point, that i never said that there is actual legal resistence, just said that if there are, i would support it, i said that i support legal resistence, so logically, if it doesnt exist, then no problem, nothing gets my support, but if it exists, then they have my support, but i have never said that they do or do not exist, have i ?

No, you didn't say IF, you clearly just wrote that you supported the attacks against American troops. Why would you even mention this if you weren't sure if "legal resistance" existed? I've never seen as much tap dancing as I just saw in the blue pile of shit above.

Not here in the States... But only one of my muslim friends is married. He has 3 little girls and a wife. I've seen them tens of times but really never saw them. He makes them wear their veils and they ALWAYS walk behind him. That's as far as he'll get here, as in the US we will charge him with a crime and prosecute him if he goes any further. Many Islamic countries won't do jack shit if a man beats his wife.

in my country, if a man beats his wife, he get arrested, the same if a women hits her husband ;), about walking behind him, nothing at all in Islam says anything about walking infront or behind the man, not religious tradition at all, for me, my children will walk in front of me, so that i always watch over them, to make sure they are save, dont like anyone walking behind me, not my wife, not my kids.

That's fine, but acknowledge that this shit exists in MANY islamic countries.

Do you read newspapers? Are you going to deny that the abuse of muslim women in quite a few countries is a huge issue and needs to be fixed?

did i ever deny so ?, i just said that Quran doesnt call for such abuse, but i didnt say that stupid Afghani people or pakistani does not abuse their women.

I disagree, as do the muslims who translated the hadith and quran verses.

i am not here to defend stupid muslims who abuse their wifes, or stupid terrorists who attack innocents, i am just here to defend Quran and Islam, i dont like Islam to be called religion of hatred, while i am a muslim, and i have no hatred at all in me, thats all.

And I mention about the abuse of women in islam, and all you do is deny it exists in egypt and refuse to acknowledge its a huge fucking problem in so many other islamic shitholes.


And yes, I know we have women abusers here in the States too, but if found out about we will prosecute them and send them to jail.

when found in egypt, they are thrown in jail too.

Domestic violence tops a long list of discrimination and abuse against women in Egypt. Other crimes include killing, sexual violence, female genital mutilation (FGM), sexual harassment and human trafficking, as well as poverty and inequality.

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2010/986/eg13.htm

Not my fault you failed to address what you promised to. Go back through your own posts and find them. But I don't need you to "translate" anything, I've already had it done so by someone from Algeria, Morocco, Jordan... I don't need you to try and clean it up a bit when I already had close friends translate it for me.

and not mine too, every person can forget, we are not perfect creatures, if you are satisfied with what was explained to you, then its fine, i am not here to force people to ask me about explainations which will make me spend some hours in reading to make such explainations.


Don't want nor need your translations. It's a moot point anyway. You'll just deny that these men beat their women as a result of religion. Whatever their reason, Islamic countries have a serious issue on their hands and the problem is that they don't even acknowledge it exists!

yes, i will deny that its a result of religion, its result of their wrong upbringing, and their parents not teaching them good manners, and the family problems they had while kids.

Why is it that there are SO MANY people in islam that have poor upbringings and end up abusing women?

Then don't tell people you are specifically going to see an imam about verses and then make it sound like it's MY fault because you forgot.

i have already consulted Imams many times when i wanted to explain some verses, and i didnt make it sound like its your fault because i forgot, i apologized and asked if you can excuse me for that fault.

any way you slice it or dice it - women are treated totally different in "most" islamic countries than any other countries. This is backed up with undeniable facts.

maybe, but you dont have to be aggressive towards me because of things that other people does, do you think that is fair ?

I'm just pointing out the facts, if you don't like them, tough shit. You probably don't like what I have to say, no more than me reading that you support cockroaches attacking our troops.


Hell, just show me ONE civilized country outside of Islamic countries, that will kill women for blasphemy, or cane them because they don't have their veils on, or whip them because they had their picture taken, or imprison them for lengthy years because they were seen with a man... disgusting.

kill women for blasphemy - Pakistan
cane them because they dont have their veils on - Iran
whip them because they had their picture taken - Iran
imrpison them for seen with a man - maybe also Iran.

notice anything ?, such actions happens only in radical countries, but you fail to admit that there are many moderate muslim countries that shouldnt be condemned for something that Iran or Pakistan did.

Please, you OUTRIGHT LIE! I have stated MANY times that I know it's not ALL muslims and I am even on record here as stating several times that I believed YOU didn't beat/abuse women. But it's YOU who fails to acknowledge the islam is loaded with fucking terrorists and men who abuse their women. If you don't want to acknowledge it and hopefully help fix it, no sweat off my back.

Now please, ask someone if necessary how to use the multiquote function, I am not replying in this retarded manner again.


about multi quote, if you can read some of my old posts, you will notice that i use it often when i need to, but i was lazy this time, i am studing for my exams, which will start tomorrow with 3 practical exams, so i excuse me if i was lazy and didnt use the multiple quote.

i will just skip everything you said and jump to the last words, you said that you acknowledge that i dont beat\abuse women, but you say that its me who doesnt acknowledge that muslims does that, while i already acknowledged that many times, but i am just arguing about the numbers, you think its majority, i think its minority, at least its a minority where i live, in egypt its rare to see a man abusing his wife, about pakistan or Iran or Afghanistan, it may be majority, but thats due to traditions, not due to religion, because in egypt we are muslims too, but we dont practice that same laws that is applied in Pakistan or Iran, so having different rules while abiding by the same religion, means that the problem is not in the religion itself, its in the traditions of the area, thats why you will see muslims in Egypt more moderate than muslims in Afghanistan, its all about the traditions of the area, not religion.

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 03:42 PM
but i am just arguing about the numbers, you think its majority, i think its minority, at least its a minority where i live, in egypt its rare to see a man abusing his wife,.

I suggest you read the recent articles and catch up with this thread before making ignorant statements about your own country! Rare? LOL when you go above 10% it is not rare. When you go above 20% it's a fucking epidemic. When you get from 30-80% in types of abuses, you are in hell.

Kathianne
12-31-2010, 03:45 PM
about multi quote, if you can read some of my old posts, you will notice that i use it often when i need to, but i was lazy this time, i am studing for my exams, which will start tomorrow with 3 practical exams, so i excuse me if i was lazy and didnt use the multiple quote.

i will just skip everything you said and jump to the last words, you said that you acknowledge that i dont beat\abuse women, but you say that its me who doesnt acknowledge that muslims does that, while i already acknowledged that many times, but i am just arguing about the numbers, you think its majority, i think its minority, at least its a minority where i live, in egypt its rare to see a man abusing his wife, about pakistan or Iran or Afghanistan, it may be majority, but thats due to traditions, not due to religion, because in egypt we are muslims too, but we dont practice that same laws that is applied in Pakistan or Iran, so having different rules while abiding by the same religion, means that the problem is not in the religion itself, its in the traditions of the area, thats why you will see muslims in Egypt more moderate than muslims in Afghanistan, its all about the traditions of the area, not religion.

Abso, if I understand the end of what you just wrote, 'it's rare that one sees a man abusing his wife in Egypt.' If you can ever see it, you should speak out, since two witnesses are needed to legally stop the husband from doing so.

Abuse, not just in Muslim countries, but in general, is not a public crime.

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 03:48 PM
Abso, if I understand the end of what you just wrote, 'it's rare that one sees a man abusing his wife in Egypt.' If you can ever see it, you should speak out, since two witnesses are needed to legally stop the husband from doing so.

Abuse, not just in Muslim countries, but in general, is not a public crime.

That's just fucking wrong, whether male or female. Maybe abso can show us where this applies to men equally...

abso
12-31-2010, 03:51 PM
abso posts:



Well abso, we'll see if the Iraqi people have those feelings YOU think they have, AFTER our troops pull out of Iraqi, and things start to go back to the way it was before our LIBERATION force showed up.

What say we have this conversation in a couple of years?:slap:

okay, no problem, if i live until then, i promise i will be here.

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 03:53 PM
** Abso, you have been challenged!! **

What do you say we have an official debate on this topic, in the debate forum, just you and I. Hell, I'm feeling frisky, I'll even let you choose the Islamic country of your choice. If you're a man who will stand behind his words, you would choose your home country of Egypt.

I speak of abuse of women and you deny this is an issue in Egypt. I'm willing to take you on about your own country and the abuses women must suffer in Egypt. Put your "money" where your mouth is and debate me, without outside interference.

You laid your claims down, I intend to prove that women being abused in Egypt is a major fucking issue.

Care to accept the challenge and be fucking inundated with the TRUTH from Egypt, which will be undeniable and from all credible sources? I so hope you accept this so that I can post all the human rights violations towards women there, the violations you say barely exist in your country.

What say thou, Abso?

fj1200
12-31-2010, 03:55 PM
No. He wrote enough to make inferences. You are just playing semantics. I understand the extreme responses might provoke it, but I wasn't extreme until he tried to bring up one example and extrapolate from it.

The inference is on you not abso, he clarified, repeatedly, and I accept it. We can disagree on that.

abso
12-31-2010, 03:56 PM
Already did, dumbass

didnt see it before i posted that... :rolleyes:

anyway, the numbers you posted is pretty weird to me, since i have not seen any abuse in my family, so i am surprised that the statistics are that high, maybe because such abuse is not spread among educated people, its usualy spread among poor people, and they are alot in egypt.

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 03:59 PM
didnt see it before i posted that... :rolleyes:

anyway, the numbers you posted is pretty weird to me, since i have not seen any abuse in my family, so i am surprised that the statistics are that high, maybe because such abuse is not spread among educated people, its usualy spread among poor people, and they are alot in egypt.

What the fuck does ONE family have to do with total amount of abuses in a country of what, about 80 million?

I'm sure there are LOTS of families without abuse towards women, but there's obviously LOTS of families that do have abuse in them!! And those numbers won't be found in many places, that's disgustingly high - hence the fact I keep repeating the FACT that Islam has a problem on its hands pertaining towards abuse of women.

Hell, ya'll pay so much attention towards the plight of women that you aren't even aware of the skyrocketing amount of abuse in your own damned country.

abso
12-31-2010, 04:56 PM
** Abso, you have been challenged!! **

What do you say we have an official debate on this topic, in the debate forum, just you and I. Hell, I'm feeling frisky, I'll even let you choose the Islamic country of your choice. If you're a man who will stand behind his words, you would choose your home country of Egypt.

I speak of abuse of women and you deny this is an issue in Egypt. I'm willing to take you on about your own country and the abuses women must suffer in Egypt. Put your "money" where your mouth is and debate me, without outside interference.

You laid your claims down, I intend to prove that women being abused in Egypt is a major fucking issue.

Care to accept the challenge and be fucking inundated with the TRUTH from Egypt, which will be undeniable and from all credible sources? I so hope you accept this so that I can post all the human rights violations towards women there, the violations you say barely exist in your country.

What say thou, Abso?

as i remember, i said that extreme abuses that you mentioned earlier, which is killing a woman for cursing Muhammed, or to cane her because her picture is taken, or to imprison her because she was seen talking to a man, such extreme abuses does not exist in egypt.

but when did i say that husbands in egypt doesnt beat their wifes, i only spoke about my father, and the husbands in my family, but i didnt say that egyptians husbands in general doesnt beat their wifes.

when i spoke about egyptian husband in general, i was only speaking about the strange tradition you mentioned, about making the wife or kids walk behind the man, so i told you to come and watch them all walking beside each other, while no woman walks behind her husband at all !!!

beating wifes is an issue in egypt, i didnt say otherwise, and also beating husbands is another issue, 28% of women have beaten their husbands, so violence within the family isnt uncommon in egypt, buts its more spread within ignorant poor people, and nearly vanish within educated rich people.




about women abuse in USA:

In the United States, a woman is beaten every 7.4 seconds. Approximately 3-4 million women are beaten by male partners annually.

As many as 324,000 women each year experience intimate partner violence during their pregnancy.

On average, more than three women are murdered by their husbands or boyfriends in this country every day.

Domestic violence is the leading cause of injury to women between the ages of 15 and 44 in the United States.

Pregnant and recently pregnant women are more likely to be victims of homicide than to die of any other cause.

Approximately one in five female high school students reports being physically and/or sexually abused by a dating partner.

Three in four women (76%) who reported they had been raped and/or physically assaulted since age 18 said that a current or former husband, cohabiting partner, or date committed the assault.

An Estimated 683,000 women are forcibly raped each year in the United states, which equates to 1.3 women being raped every minute. <SUP>1</SUP>

Rape remains the most dramatically underreported crime. 70-84% of rapes are not reported to law enforcement.

About 90% of college women surveyed report that their attacker was a boyfriend, ex-boyfriend, friend, acquaintance or co-worker. And often the sexual victimization occurred during a date. Nearly 13% of the women surveyed reported being the victim of date rape, and 35% reported being the victim of attempted rape while on a date.

Among adults who are developmentally disabled, as many as 83% of the females and 32% of the males are the victims of sexual assault.

It has been estimated that 83% of women with a disability will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime.

81.1% of Asian women surveyed reported experiencing at least one form of intimate partner violence (domination/controlling/psychological, physical, and /or sexual abuse as categorized by the researchers) in the past year.<SUP> </SUP>
<SUP></SUP>
While physical and psychological violence against women occurs in all social groups, poor women report violence by their partners at higher rates, partly because they have fewer options for leaving the abusive relationship. (Same in Egypt)

In 2005, 1,181 women were murdered by an intimate partner.<SUP>1</SUP> (http://www.now.org/issues/violence/stats.html#endref1) That's an average of three women every day. Of all the women murdered in the U.S., about one-third were killed by an intimate partner.

According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, which includes crimes that were not reported to the police, 232,960 women in the U.S. were raped or sexually assaulted in 2006. That's more than 600 women every day.

One report estimates that more than 2.5 million females experience some form of violence each year. Further, almost 2 out of 3 females in this population have been attacked by a family member or a person with which they are acquainted.

Six in every 10 women who are victims of homicide were murdered by someone they knew.

Factors such as poverty, single-parent households headed by women, and parents with less than a high school education were found to be more common among families suffering abuse. (Same in Egypt)

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) found in a national survey that 34 percent of adults in the United States had witnessed a man beating his wife or girlfriend, and that 14 percent of women report that they have experienced violence from a husband or boyfriend.

More than twice as many women are killed by their husbands or boyfriends than are murdered by strangers.

In 1992, the American Medical Association reported that as many as 1 in 3 women will be assaulted by a domestic partner in her lifetime -- 4 million in any given year.

Among all female murder victims in 1992, 29% were slain by boyfriends or husbands; four percent of male victims were slain by their wives or girlfriends.

The average prison sentence of men who kill their women partners is 2 to 6 years. Women who kill their partners are, on average, sentenced to 15 years. (???????????) :rolleyes:

Women were raped by someone they knew which constituted 55 percent of the reported rapes and 45 percent by strangers.


Various Sources:
http://www.athealth.com/Consumer/disorders/DomViolFacts.html
http://www.now.org/issues/violence/stats.html
http://www.kcsdv.org/stats.html
http://www.findcounseling.com/journal/domestic-violence/domestic-violence-statistics.html

abso
12-31-2010, 05:00 PM
What the fuck does ONE family have to do with total amount of abuses in a country of what, about 80 million?

I'm sure there are LOTS of families without abuse towards women, but there's obviously LOTS of families that do have abuse in them!! And those numbers won't be found in many places, that's disgustingly high - hence the fact I keep repeating the FACT that Islam has a problem on its hands pertaining towards abuse of women.

Hell, ya'll pay so much attention towards the plight of women that you aren't even aware of the skyrocketing amount of abuse in your own damned country.

okay, but that fact that its spread alot more among poor people, and poor areas, means that religion isnt the main factor here, you have alot to consider, like Education, money and traditions.

my main arguments isnt about the numbers of women being abused, its about the reasons of it, you say the main reason is Islam, and i say that the main reason is traditions and background of the people.

abso
12-31-2010, 05:14 PM
Abso, if I understand the end of what you just wrote, 'it's rare that one sees a man abusing his wife in Egypt.' If you can ever see it, you should speak out, since two witnesses are needed to legally stop the husband from doing so.

Abuse, not just in Muslim countries, but in general, is not a public crime.

who said that two witnesses are needed to legally stop the husband from doing so ????????

if i ever see a husband beating his wife, i will personally stop him, and probably will beat him, i wont wait for the police to come and stop him.

and its as i said, its very rare to see a man beating his wife, about what happens inside their homes, i dont know, but in the streest, during 21 years i have lived inside Egypt, i have never personally seen a man beating his wife, i hoped to see one so that i can beat him and teach him a lesson, but i never did saw such thing.

the witness rule you are talking about is used for proving the adultery crime, since Islam made it a requirement to prove adultery on any women that two witnesses must be provided for that crime, such rule was to prevent false accusation of a man or a woman for adultery.

abuse in egypt is a crime, beating the wife is a crime punishable by prison for 3 - 6 months if there were no serious damage, but in case of any serious injury, the man will spend more than that in jail.

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 05:19 PM
So does that mean you are not willing to stand behind your statements and debate me on the subject? C'mon, I only have a few hundred current articles lined up so far....

Any attempt to compare the systematic abuse of women in islam to the US is quite laughable.

If articles aren't good enough, would you like me to post the heads of women who were beheaded? How about the whip marks from canes? Hangings on women from petty offenses? I know where there's a video of a woman stoned to death for being in public with a man other than a relative.

And it's not just nauseating enough to read/see this shit, but worse off when you see it's an accepted part of islam in many areas.

Now show me where this vile shit happens in the US on a regular basis AND is accepted by our CIVILIZED population.

So again, we on for that debate?

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 05:22 PM
who said that two witnesses are needed to legally stop the husband from doing so ????????

She's referring to what I posted earlier about Morocco, one of the places you also said was moderate and not abusive towards its women:

http://www.afrol.com/Categories/Women/profiles/morocco_women.htm

Spousal violence against women is common. While physical abuse is a legal ground for divorce, a court only grants it if the woman is able to provide two witnesses to the abuse. Even medical certificates are not sufficient. Sexual assaults often go unreported because of the stigma attached to the loss of virginity. While not provided for by law, victim's families may offer rapists the opportunity to marry their victims in order to preserve the honor of the family.

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 05:26 PM
And another source for my last post:


Although a woman can file for a judicial divorce if her husband physically abuses her, these cases are lengthy and complicated (Country Reports 2001 4 Mar. 2002, sec. 5). The woman must provide two witnesses to the abuse and, "if the court finds against the woman, she is returned to the husband's home" (ibid.). Furthermore, the law is reportedly lenient toward men who commit crimes against their wives (ibid.).

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/type,QUERYRESPONSE,,MAR,3df4be674,0.html

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 05:35 PM
abuse in egypt is a crime, beating the wife is a crime punishable by prison for 3 - 6 months if there were no serious damage, but in case of any serious injury, the man will spend more than that in jail.

And yet the statistics I posted from the most reputable of sources, and even Egyptian sources, shows that the abuse of women is about as rampant as flies on a pile of fresh dog shit.

Why is there so much abuse in Egypt then, and why aren't SO many more men in prison for their actions?

abso
12-31-2010, 05:48 PM
She's referring to what I posted earlier about Morocco, one of the places you also said was moderate and not abusive towards its women:

http://www.afrol.com/Categories/Women/profiles/morocco_women.htm

Spousal violence against women is common. While physical abuse is a legal ground for divorce, a court only grants it if the woman is able to provide two witnesses to the abuse. Even medical certificates are not sufficient. Sexual assaults often go unreported because of the stigma attached to the loss of virginity. While not provided for by law, victim's families may offer rapists the opportunity to marry their victims in order to preserve the honor of the family.

about divorce in egypt, its granted very easily, any woman can divorce her husband even if she has no reason at all to do so, she just asks for it, and the court grant it for her.

complicating divorce for women is stupid and inhuman, if a wife doesnt want to stay with the man anymore, then she should have the right to divorce him.

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 05:51 PM
about divorce in egypt, its granted very easily, any woman can divorce her husband even if she has no reason at all to do so, she just asks for it, and the court grant it for her.

So? I didn't say they couldn't in Egypt. I very clearly pointed out in an earlier post, and my last post, that this was about Morocco - one of the countries you said wasn't radical about abuse of women like others. If that's part of their law, then that's part of their problem. But as I posted, there is widespread abuse there too.

Claim it's not islam, it's not the quran, it's not muslims - but for whatever reason it is - it miraculously happens to an overwhelming majority of muslims in islamic countries! :laugh2:

abso
12-31-2010, 05:53 PM
And yet the statistics I posted from the most reputable of sources, and even Egyptian sources, shows that the abuse of women is about as rampant as flies on a pile of fresh dog shit.

Why is there so much abuse in Egypt then, and why aren't SO many more men in prison for their actions?

maybe because some women think that they are saving their marriage by tolerating such stupid actions, i have that have been beaten once or twice by her husband, they live in Kuwiet, she returned to Egypt and asked for divorce, by at the end, she decided not to get divorce for the sake of her daughter, and now i think that her husband treats her very well so that she doesnt insist on divorce this time.

anyway, in the future, if i have a daughter, and he husband beats her, i will beat him, and i will get her divorce, i wont tolerate any beating.

abso
12-31-2010, 05:56 PM
So? I didn't say they couldn't in Egypt. I very clearly pointed out in an earlier post, and my last post, that this was about Morocco - one of the countries you said wasn't radical about abuse of women like others. If that's part of their law, then that's part of their problem. But as I posted, there is widespread abuse there too.

Claim it's not islam, it's not the quran, it's not muslims - but for whatever reason it is - it miraculously happens to an overwhelming majority of muslims in islamic countries! :laugh2:

i know, i was just stating that we dont have such divorce issue in egypt.

and about Morocco, if they have an abuse problem, then you must be sure that it has no relation at all with religion, they are not religious people at all, and their french language is better than their arabic language, they are more close to europe than they are to the arabian world, they may be one of the least religious Islamic countries in the world.

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 05:59 PM
abso, don't you live somewhere near the deNILE river?

Kathianne
12-31-2010, 05:59 PM
about divorce in egypt, its granted very easily, any woman can divorce her husband even if she has no reason at all to do so, she just asks for it, and the court grant it for her.

complicating divorce for women is stupid and inhuman, if a wife doesnt want to stay with the man anymore, then she should have the right to divorce him.

Abso, not what I'm finding. Indeed some movement, but seems for every step forward, 2 back:

http://www.google.com/search?q=women+divorce+egypt&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

And on youtube, lots of info on Egyptian women rights, including from imams:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=egyptian+women+rights&aq=f

abso
12-31-2010, 06:06 PM
So does that mean you are not willing to stand behind your statements and debate me on the subject? C'mon, I only have a few hundred current articles lined up so far....

Any attempt to compare the systematic abuse of women in islam to the US is quite laughable.

If articles aren't good enough, would you like me to post the heads of women who were beheaded? How about the whip marks from canes? Hangings on women from petty offenses? I know where there's a video of a woman stoned to death for being in public with a man other than a relative.

And it's not just nauseating enough to read/see this shit, but worse off when you see it's an accepted part of islam in many areas.

Now show me where this vile shit happens in the US on a regular basis AND is accepted by our CIVILIZED population.

So again, we on for that debate?

cosnidering the fact that i have 3 practical exams tomorrow morning, and then 4 weeks full of exams and revisions, i dont think that i have time for a challenge, sorry.

and about the challenge, i didnt say that we dont have women abuse in egypt, i admit it exist, so there is no need for that challenge, i said that i havent seen it spread as your numbers say, and i havent ever seen it personally, but maybe its spread in the homes and i dont notice it because none i know have done it.

abso
12-31-2010, 06:15 PM
Abso, not what I'm finding. Indeed some movement, but seems for every step forward, 2 back:

http://www.google.com/search?q=women+divorce+egypt&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

And on youtube, lots of info on Egyptian women rights, including from imams:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=egyptian+women+rights&aq=f

not what you are finding, sure of that ???



Women in Egypt Gain Broader Divorce Rights
Friday , April 14, 2000
Today, however, she and other Egyptian women are coming to court with new authority. A law that took effect last month allows them to seek a unilateral, no-questions-asked divorce, making Egypt the second country in the Arab world after Tunisia to give women divorce rights similar to those of men.
http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/divrua.htm


any woman can gain divorce in matter of days, about other things that you are posting, i wasnt talking about women rights in general, i was just talking about their divorce right, its easily granted.

Kathianne
12-31-2010, 06:17 PM
not what you are finding, sure of that ???



any woman can gain divorce in matter of days, about other things that you are posting, i wasnt talking about women rights in general, i was just talking about their divorce right, its easily granted.

Have a reading comprehension problem I guess? For everyone like that, find more saying just the opposite. BTW, those 'new rules' were ballyhooed in 1999 and still are called new today. :rolleyes:

abso
12-31-2010, 06:23 PM
abso, don't you live somewhere near the deNILE river?

not very near of it, but its just 30-40 minutes by the car, i do live beside the airport, and i dont feel that i am in a "Denial" state, i am just being logical about any issue.

abso
12-31-2010, 06:25 PM
Have a reading comprehension problem I guess? For everyone like that, find more saying just the opposite. BTW, those 'new rules' were ballyhooed in 1999 and still are called new today. :rolleyes:

yes, they consider them new, although they have been in practice for the past 10 years, but everyone think of it as new rule.

whats your problem in them being called new or old, all what matters is that they are applied now.

Kathianne
12-31-2010, 06:41 PM
yes, they consider them new, although they have been in practice for the past 10 years, but everyone think of it as new rule.

whats your problem in them being called new or old, all what matters is that they are applied now.

Again, you are only seeing what you wish to see. Every couple of years the government claims that women have these rights, but in actuality it isn't so. There is nothing 'new' there, it's the same old stuff. Did you even bother to look at those links from HRW? Muslimmedia? I bet not.

abso
12-31-2010, 07:00 PM
Again, you are only seeing what you wish to see. Every couple of years the government claims that women have these rights, but in actuality it isn't so. There is nothing 'new' there, it's the same old stuff. Did you even bother to look at those links from HRW? Muslimmedia? I bet not.

its not the government claims, i already know that its a fact that women can get divorce very easily without any reason at all, its actually became a habit for some women to threaten her husband that they will get divorce if the husband doesnt listen to them ;)

Kathianne
12-31-2010, 07:05 PM
its not the government claims, i already know that its a fact that women can get divorce very easily without any reason at all, its actually became a habit for some women to threaten her husband that they will get divorce if the husband doesnt listen to them ;)

So all those women are lying? Human Rights Watch is lying about the laws being a facade? Now perhaps you are from wealthy and the laws are a bit different in enforcement?

logroller
12-31-2010, 08:28 PM
1,000,000 dead muslims

It appears my way is pretty damn successful. If they want to act like subhumans, they will be treated as such.

I not impressed (I'm disgusted actually); there's still a ways to go to break the historical records for genocide-- Mao Tse-Tung wiped out over 40 million in China and Tibet and I think in less time than we've been in Iraq.

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 08:38 PM
I not impressed (I'm disgusted actually); there's still a ways to go to break the historical records for genocide-- Mao Tse-Tung wiped out over 40 million in China and Tibet and I think in less time than we've been in Iraq.

So now you're saying our troops have committed genocide? You're just a fucking delusional asshole.

jimnyc
12-31-2010, 09:31 PM
Sticks around for awhile, reads this thread and bails. I wouldn't have the gonads to reply again either if I just inferred that the deaths taking place in Iraq are because of genocide by our soldiers.

The majority of those deaths are a result of sectarian violence. Then terror attacks. Then from the war. But the majority and then some is the Iraqi's killing one another. Yes, our soldiers have killed civilians. Sometimes there is collateral damage. If it's on purpose, they should get tried in court. But both of those are rare. Our military does its hardest to avoid civilian casualties when hunting high valued targets.

To infer that the near million deaths in Iraq are a result of genocide is just being a troll and/or a retard.

abso
01-01-2011, 06:59 AM
So all those women are lying? Human Rights Watch is lying about the laws being a facade? Now perhaps you are from wealthy and the laws are a bit different in enforcement?

the women you mentioned are talking about abuses, not about the laws of divorce !!!

divorce is very easy in egypt nowdays, they created a new family law to make divorce easier, and also new separate family courts to make divorce faster so that divorce and child custody cases doesnt have to wait in line with other cases.

jimnyc
01-01-2011, 08:56 AM
I just watched a video on this slurpee character, with O'reilly discussing the Ft. Hood attacks...

while he acknowledges it was a terror attack, he wants to distance from the facts that he was a muslim - and he states as much about other terror attacks. He finds it disappointing that news agencies report that they are muslims. He preferred that they refer to this scumbag as an "army terrorist" instead of a muslim terrorist - even though the shithead was carrying a card that stated "soldier of allah" and also was running around yelling allah akbar!

He's probably a damn good colonel, but he ALSO another muslim terrorist denier and spinner.

jimnyc
01-01-2011, 08:57 AM
Btw- just don't have the video handy, but I'd be happy to find it again and post it if anyone doesn't believe me, or just wants to see it. Need caffeine this morn before anything else!!

Kathianne
01-01-2011, 09:10 AM
the women you mentioned are talking about abuses, not about the laws of divorce !!!

divorce is very easy in egypt nowdays, they created a new family law to make divorce easier, and also new separate family courts to make divorce faster so that divorce and child custody cases doesnt have to wait in line with other cases.

Both. Divorce is not as easy for women. It costs more than double than if husband wants it. There are other differences mentioned, I'm just not concerned enough to do all the reading, but it's your country and your people. If it were mine, I would be very concerned.

jimnyc
01-01-2011, 09:14 AM
Both. Divorce is not as easy for women. It costs more than double than if husband wants it. There are other differences mentioned, I'm just not concerned enough to do all the reading, but it's your country and your people. If it were mine, I would be very concerned.

He wouldn't know anyway. He had no idea just how bad the abuse of women in Egypt was until I gave him undeniable proof.

logroller
01-03-2011, 03:52 AM
Sticks around for awhile, reads this thread and bails. I wouldn't have the gonads to reply again either if I just inferred that the deaths taking place in Iraq are because of genocide by our soldiers.

The majority of those deaths are a result of sectarian violence. Then terror attacks. Then from the war. But the majority and then some is the Iraqi's killing one another. Yes, our soldiers have killed civilians. Sometimes there is collateral damage. If it's on purpose, they should get tried in court. But both of those are rare. Our military does its hardest to avoid civilian casualties when hunting high valued targets.

To infer that the near million deaths in Iraq are a result of genocide is just being a troll and/or a retard.


I didn't bail on the thread, I went out, (it was New Year's Eve)--and I don't think it is genocide-- I merely drew a conclusion from what you have touted as reason in this thread. You have pronounced several stages indicative of genocidal conditioning; including classification, dehumanization, polarization, extermination and now denial. Forgive me if I was pursuing this as a debate and failed to consider your emotional state. I can understand when someone develops these behaviors in the frontlines of warfare; its a classic survival technique. I've seen PTSD in most of my friends and family who have served in Iraq and other foreign wars. Maybe you were affected by 9/11, and developed these feelings as a result; but get some help, don't go around spouting hate and derogatory sentiment. If you don't overcome the hate and fear, you've allowed the terrorists to succeed.

SassyLady
01-03-2011, 04:13 AM
If you don't overcome the hate and fear, you've allowed the terrorists to succeed.

If we don't stay vigilant and remember, we become ostriches and won't see the enemy when they approach.

I have no intention of ever forgetting who attacked us on 9/11. This doesn't mean I hate Muslims .... it just means that I have a very strong and healthy distrust for them. Just like I have a healthy distrust of gang bangers. They may not all be murderers, but I don't trust any of them.

jimnyc
01-03-2011, 07:34 AM
I didn't bail on the thread, I went out, (it was New Year's Eve)--and I don't think it is genocide-- I merely drew a conclusion from what you have touted as reason in this thread. You have pronounced several stages indicative of genocidal conditioning; including classification, dehumanization, polarization, extermination and now denial. Forgive me if I was pursuing this as a debate and failed to consider your emotional state. I can understand when someone develops these behaviors in the frontlines of warfare; its a classic survival technique. I've seen PTSD in most of my friends and family who have served in Iraq and other foreign wars. Maybe you were affected by 9/11, and developed these feelings as a result; but get some help, don't go around spouting hate and derogatory sentiment. If you don't overcome the hate and fear, you've allowed the terrorists to succeed.

So you inferred our troops committed mass genocide in Iraq because you didn't like what I posted? LOL what a fucking idiot

And you were pursuing this as a "debate", and a tactic of yours is to compare our soldiers to "Mao Tse-Tung"?

How about you stick with facts instead of dreaming up scenarios for your debates, dumbass? :laugh2:

fj1200
01-03-2011, 08:47 AM
So you inferred our troops...

He inferred (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/infer) from your post that you were OK with genocide.


Are soldiers are trained to kill. So when those we are trying to protect attack our soldiers, they do what is natural, and kill the cockroaches.

This didn't help.


1,000,000 dead muslims

It appears my way is pretty damn successful. If they want to act like subhumans, they will be treated as such.

jimnyc
01-03-2011, 09:16 AM
He inferred (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/infer) from your post that you were OK with genocide.



This didn't help.

Yes, people who cowardly attack our troops are cockroaches, IMO, and that's what we were discussing.

My other post was about the huge disparity in deaths, something like 1 million as per abso... And he stated he supported Iraqi's attacking us, even though I stated that the people they were attacking were there to HELP the average Iraqi, and only going after high value targets and those attacking them. My point was to show him that the way HE wants the "war" to go, is obviously not that successful, especially if you look at the numbers.

Now, if I state I condone our troops going after high value targets (terrorists), and killing anyone who tries to attack them, and that Iraqi's are killing one another (sectarian violence) - and add up all of them - and post the numbers as I stated...

HOW THE FUCK DOES THAT = ME INFERRING I AM "OK" WITH GENOCIDE?

Are you 2 really this obtuse, or just can't comprehend well?

abso
01-03-2011, 10:12 AM
HOW THE FUCK DOES THAT = ME INFERRING I AM "OK" WITH GENOCIDE?



LOL what a fucking idiot

How about you stick with facts instead of dreaming up scenarios for your debates, dumbass?


To infer that the near million deaths in Iraq are a result of genocide is just being a troll and/or a retard.


So now you're saying our troops have committed genocide? You're just a fucking delusional asshole.


That's just fucking wrong, whether male or female. Maybe abso can show us where this applies to men equally...


Already did, dumbass


for me, i dont think that you are ok with genocide, but your real problem is in your lack of manners, sometimes you talk well, but most of the times you dont, that doesnt help at all in making it easier for everyone to understand each other, you get angry very easily, and then you talk with disrespect, which makes others angry at you, that result in a hopeless debate, nothing will be gained from the way you talk to others.

you are free to share your opinions with others, but i dont think that your freedom includes disrespecting them, or insulting them in any way, respect people even if they disagree with you, thats your problem, you are not capable of respecting anyone who have any other opinion than yours.

even if you think that the opinion of others is offending to what you believe and love, that doesnt mean you have to insult them, you often attack Islam and arabs and Egypt, all of that offends me, as much as it offend you that i support legal resistance against your country's army, but i never insulted you because you have opinion that i dont like, and the moment you do the same, you will make it easier for everyone to have a reasonable debate with you, i often get bored of any debate when you start disrespecting everyone in it.

i get it, you are a good man, but you lose your temper very easily, but thats not our problem, its yours, so please deal with it if you may, dont insult and disrespect people who disagree with you, try to deliver your opinion in a respectable manner and you will be surprised by the outcome.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

about the debate going on, please refrain from directing comments about it towards me anymore for the time being, when i finish exams i will be back for debate, this is just a side comment which is irrelevant to the issue being discussed.

jimnyc
01-03-2011, 10:26 AM
for me, i dont think that you are ok with genocide, but your real problem is in your lack of manners, sometimes you talk well, but most of the times you dont, that doesnt help at all in making it easier for everyone to understand each other, you get angry very easily, and then you talk with disrepsect, which makes others angry at you, that result in a hopeless debate, nothing will be gained from the way you talk to others.

From someone who's been discussing/arguing about this with me from the beginning, thank you for your acknowledgment that these 2 are full of shit.

As for my manners? Too fucking bad if people don't like me. And outside of my rudeness, I "talk well". I make my points known and I try to back them up with facts. But I will not "coddle" people. I'm not a troll as I don't go around everywhere like this, but if you looked around the board you would see that. When I'm passionate about something it is reflected in my keystrokes. Deal with it.


you are free to share your opinions with others, but i dont think that your freedom includes disrespecting them, or insulting them in any way, respect people even if they disagree with you, thats your problem, you are not capable of respecting anyone who have any other opinion than yours.

But my freedom does. Welcome to America, the Land of the Free!


even if you think that the opinion of others is offending to what you believe and love, that doesnt mean you have to insult them, you often attack Islam and arabs and Egypt, all of that offends me, as much as it offend you that i support legal resistance against your country's army, but i never insulted you because you have opinion that i dont like, and the moment you do the same, you will make it easier for everyone to have a reasonable debate with you, i often get bored of any debate when you start disrespecting everyone in it.


Then don't debate with me, it's that simple. And I don't attack those you describe without provocation and with a broad brush. Again, I try to even follow up my insults with proof. Don't hate me because Islam gives me so much to "pick on".


i get it, you are a good man, but you lose your temper very easily, but thats not our problem, its yours, so please deal with it if you may, dont insult and disrespect people who disagree with you, try to deliver your opinion in a respectable manner and you will be surprised by the outcome.

I debate people respectfully all the time, always have. At the same time, I'm not going to be someone else to please others. If I'm passionate about something, and "in real life" would yell or tell someone to go fuck themselves, I'm sure as shit gonna type it here. I'm sorry if so many Islam/Muslim subjects get me heated. But I defy you to find threads where I don't discuss facts as well and try to give proof with my discussions.

If you don't like my language or sarcasm when I get passionate, I suggest you put a kiddy filter on your computer and it will block out all these "insults" for you. Do a search for "Net Nanny" - their software will turn this board into an online version of "Romper Room" for you.

:ali: :fu:

fj1200
01-03-2011, 10:26 AM
Are you 2 really this obtuse, or just can't comprehend well?

Why is the problem with our comprehension when it can easily be with how you get your point across.

And regarding a post that you make;
You imply; I infer.

jimnyc
01-03-2011, 10:35 AM
Why is the problem with our comprehension when it can easily be with how you get your point across.

And regarding a post that you make;
You imply; I infer.

Yep, obtuse is the answer. One can make both an inference and an implication in the same post.

And I'll get my point across again, maybe a different explanation...

Both of INFERRED that I supported genocide based on my posts. (to derive by reasoning; conclude or judge from premises or evidence)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/inferred

Both of you implied that I supported genocide based on my posts. (involved, indicated, or suggested without being directly or explicitly stated; tacitly understood)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/implied

If you read the thread from the very beginning, and fully understood what abso and I were discussing, you would see I was simply referring to figures and never supported or stated I supported genocide. (
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/genocide

Therefore I see both of your comments as knee jerk comments from idiots. (an utterly foolish or senseless person)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/idiot

fj1200
01-03-2011, 10:55 AM
Yep, obtuse is the answer. One can make both an inference and an implication in the same post.

:rolleyes: Not by the definitions you posted.


And I'll get my point across again, maybe a different explanation...

Both of INFERRED that I supported genocide based on my posts. (to derive by reasoning; conclude or judge from premises or evidence)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/inferred

I didn't INFER any such thing but I can understand where it came from. The only evidence or premises we have are the words you post.


Both of you implied that I supported genocide based on my posts. (involved, indicated, or suggested without being directly or explicitly stated; tacitly understood)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/implied

I didn't IMPLY any such thing.


If you read the thread from the very beginning, and fully understood what abso and I were discussing, you would see I was simply referring to figures and never supported or stated I supported genocide. (
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/genocide

I know the definition for genocide which is why I know that we are not engaging in genocide.


Therefore I see both of your comments as knee jerk comments from idiots. (an utterly foolish or senseless person)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/idiot

You want us to accept your definition and versions of posts, I am perfectly OK with restatements and clarifications BTW, but yet you refuse to let abso restate and/or clarify his words regarding US troops being attacked.

jimnyc
01-03-2011, 11:00 AM
BTW, but yet you refuse to let abso restate and/or clarify his words regarding US troops being attacked.

Why, he's stated no less than 10x now that he supports are troops being attacked by what he calls "legal resistance". How many times do you need him to type it or me to repeat it?

And I think anyone who supports harm to our troops can go fuck themselves?

Do you see anything written above that is so terribly hard to understand? What is it you think I am missing, that a clarification would fix?

fj1200
01-03-2011, 11:10 AM
Why, he's stated no less than 10x now that he supports are troops being attacked by what he calls "legal resistance". How many times do you need him to type it or me to repeat it?

Does a Minuteman fall under "legal resistance"? He's not an American, why would he have the same allegiance that an American would have. IIRC he has repeatedly offered support for US troops.


And I think anyone who supports harm to our troops can go fuck themselves?

I agree, shoot 'em up... the evil-doers that is.


Do you see anything written above that is so terribly hard to understand? What is it you think I am missing, that a clarification would fix?

He's defined "legal resistance" as he's using it and you refuse to accept it.

jimnyc
01-03-2011, 11:16 AM
Does a Minuteman fall under "legal resistance"?

I agree, shoot 'em up... the evil-doers that is.

He's defined "legal resistance" as he's using it and you refuse to accept it.

WTF is there to accept? I don't support our troops being attacked BY ANYONE FOR ANY REASON. I don't care HOW he defines it, it's STILL supporting harm against our troops no matter what. Whether a legit army, "minuteman", terrorist or an average joe from the block - I don't support ANY of them attacking our troops, and I'll STILL send out a big FU to anyone who does.

What is so confusing to you guys about this? Do you think because abso is polite, or those "attacking" aren't "bad" people, that I should somehow understand him and his support for those attacking our troops? Sorry, not gonna happen.

fj1200
01-03-2011, 11:23 AM
WTF is there to accept? I don't support our troops being attacked BY ANYONE FOR ANY REASON. I don't care HOW he defines it, it's STILL supporting harm against our troops no matter what. Whether a legit army, "minuteman", terrorist or an average joe from the block - I don't support ANY of them attacking our troops, and I'll STILL send out a big FU to anyone who does.

Did you see my edit? I probably should have specified a minuteman from the 1770s. And to stop any inference I don't support attacks on our troops either.


What is so confusing to you guys about this? Do you think because abso is polite, or those "attacking" aren't "bad" people, that I should somehow understand him and his support for those attacking our troops? Sorry, not gonna happen.

Why do you expect the same attitude from an Egyptian?

jimnyc
01-03-2011, 11:27 AM
Why do you expect the same attitude from an Egyptian?

IN MY OPINION - an Egyptian would stand by an ally of their country. Abso is not supporting because of location but rather because it's fellow muslims.

But again, give me a list of 1 million reasons why he might support an attack against our troops - and 1 million times I will tell him to go fuck himself.

The 2 of you have managed to make it appear as if me not being happy about hearing ANYONE supporting attacks against our troops, is somehow wrong, that there can be ANY reason in where I can find that acceptable.

logroller
01-03-2011, 01:25 PM
If we don't stay vigilant and remember, we become ostriches and won't see the enemy when they approach.

I have no intention of ever forgetting who attacked us on 9/11. This doesn't mean I hate Muslims .... it just means that I have a very strong and healthy distrust for them. Just like I have a healthy distrust of gang bangers. They may not all be murderers, but I don't trust any of them.

A gangbanger has engaged in a criminal enterprise; so I wouldn't invite them into my circle of trust either. Islam is a religion, not a criminal enterprise; so I see the comparison as false. However, I assume you do not trust the terrorists; why do you believe that their professed motive of religious Jihad is factual, and not merely an instrument of perversion? I don't trust anyone who behaves so abhorrently against the love that all religions profess as truth.

abso
01-03-2011, 01:29 PM
A gangbanger has engaged in a criminal enterprise; so I wouldn't invite them into my circle of trust either. Islam is a religion, not a criminal enterprise; so I see the comparison as false. However, I assume you do not trust the terrorists; why do you believe that their professed motive of religious Jihad is factual, and not merely an instrument of perversion? I don't trust anyone who behaves so abhorrently against the love that all religions profess as truth.

:salute:

fj1200
01-03-2011, 01:31 PM
IN MY OPINION - an Egyptian would stand by an ally of their country. Abso is not supporting because of location but rather because it's fellow muslims.

But again, give me a list of 1 million reasons why he might support an attack against our troops - and 1 million times I will tell him to go fuck himself.

The 2 of you have managed to make it appear as if me not being happy about hearing ANYONE supporting attacks against our troops, is somehow wrong, that there can be ANY reason in where I can find that acceptable.

I don't find it odd that he would support an Iraqi Muslim just as you support Egyptian Christians.

Kathianne
01-03-2011, 02:02 PM
I don't find it odd that he would support an Iraqi Muslim just as you support Egyptian Christians.

If it were the Coptics attacking Egyptian Muslims, I'd be condemning the Christians. If the Egyptians struck back with a bit of Draconian subtlety, I'd understand that's cultural.

While the initial actions in Iraq were not UN sanctioned, due as we all know to some French backstabbing, since Saddam was deposed, it's been by invitation. Since the main hostilities have stopped, the US and ally forces have been used o rebuild and protect. When recently the head of Iraq said they'd be ready to take over next year some time, ok by everyone.

jimnyc
01-03-2011, 04:33 PM
I don't find it odd that he would support an Iraqi Muslim just as you support Egyptian Christians.

Then I defy you to FIND JUST ONE PLACE where I stated I supported attacks by Christians in Egypt. Because we aren't just talking about being loyal to a religion, we're talking about being loyal to attackers - and I don't recall stating I supported attacks by anyone in Egypt.

logroller
01-03-2011, 05:42 PM
It's obvious we disagree, but its also true that we share a common ground on most of these same issues; we just can't agree upon how to solve the problem of terrorism; which has no more to do with religion than gun possession has to do with gun violence; as a mere tool put to bad use. There are moments when no alternative to violence appears possible, for fear of self-destruction, but the reprisal of such acts manifests in the heart, mind and soul of everyone involved. Violence has but one certainty, based on what is clearly demonstrated in history, violence begets pain and fear: to which no party on this Earth is exempt. If we are indeed free, then it is because of divine providence, not geopolitical actions or religious practice; as any freedom which is irrevocable springs up from glory of the Almighty. I can only infer, based on an extremely extenuated reason, that terrorists consider their acts to be justified as a last ditch effort to protect this freedom; this of course is false on the basis that truth has love at it's core, to which hate and self-destruction would be the antithesis of a glorified God.

fj1200
01-03-2011, 09:47 PM
Then I defy you to FIND JUST ONE PLACE where I stated I supported attacks by Christians in Egypt. Because we aren't just talking about being loyal to a religion, we're talking about being loyal to attackers - and I don't recall stating I supported attacks by anyone in Egypt.

Why would I look? I never implied that you did.

jimnyc
01-04-2011, 09:09 AM
I don't find it odd that he would support an Iraqi Muslim just as you support Egyptian Christians.


Why would I look? I never implied that you did.

We were talking for many pages now, in multiple threads, about abso supporting Iraqi's who attack our troops, which he refers to as a "legal resistance". Your post and subsequent reply have zilch to do with what we were discussing and you were just trying to muddy the waters.

I can support all kinds of groups throughout the world, but that doesn't mean I support them attacking anyone or any groups.

You're trying your best to show that I am somehow wrong for not liking and/or understanding his position. You can't do so, it's impossible.

What he is doing is lending moral support to our enemy. And you're trying to understand or accept his support. And then you accuse me of refusing to accept his explanations.

If you sympathize with the enemy, or those who support them, that's your business. I won't give a single inch to the fucks.

CAPTDASH
01-05-2011, 01:23 AM
for me, i dont think that you are ok with genocide, but your real problem is in your lack of manners, sometimes you talk well, but most of the times you dont, that doesnt help at all in making it easier for everyone to understand each other, you get angry very easily, and then you talk with disrespect, which makes others angry at you, that result in a hopeless debate, nothing will be gained from the way you talk to others.

you are free to share your opinions with others, but i dont think that your freedom includes disrespecting them, or insulting them in any way, respect people even if they disagree with you, thats your problem, you are not capable of respecting anyone who have any other opinion than yours.

even if you think that the opinion of others is offending to what you believe and love, that doesnt mean you have to insult them, you often attack Islam and arabs and Egypt, all of that offends me, as much as it offend you that i support legal resistance against your country's army, Abso you Muslim terrorist bastard, show me one legitimate example of legal resistance in Iraq or Afghanistan. You are a terrorist, plain and simple. Now you are taking your underwear bomb and package bomb finals. I hope you fail and you lose the hand you jerk off with.
:laugh::dance::laugh2:

but i never insulted you because you have opinion that i dont like, and the moment you do the same, you will make it easier for everyone to have a reasonable debate with you, i often get bored of any debate when you start disrespecting everyone in it.

i get it, you are a good man, but you lose your temper very easily, but thats not our problem, its yours, so please deal with it if you may, dont insult and disrespect people who disagree with you, try to deliver your opinion in a respectable manner and you will be surprised by the outcome.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

about the debate going on, please refrain from directing comments about it towards me anymore for the time being, when i finish exams i will be back for debate, this is just a side comment which is irrelevant to the issue being discussed.

:dance::laugh2: