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Kathianne
02-18-2011, 02:02 AM
Nope, he's looking way too much like a tinpot dictator with what's going down in Wisconsin. He could be calling for the legislators to act like public servants, but that would mean calling all of them out:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0211/DNC_playing_role_in_Wisconsin_protests.html


The Democratic National Committee's Organizing for America arm -- the remnant of the 2008 Obama campaign -- is playing an active role in organizing protests against Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker's attempt to strip most public employees of collective bargaining rights.

OfA, as the campaign group is known, has been criticized at times for staying out of local issues like same-sex marraige, but it's riding to the aide of the public sector unions who hoping to persuade some Republican legislators to oppose Walker's plan. And while Obama may have his difference with teachers unions, OfA's engagement with the fight -- and Obama's own clear stance against Walker -- mean that he's remaining loyal to key Democratic Party allies at what is, for them, a very dangerous moment.

OfA Wisconsin's field efforts include filling buses and building turnout for the rallies this week in Madison, organizing 15 rapid response phone banks urging supporters to call their state legislators, and working on planning and producing rallies, a Democratic Party official in Washington said. ...

stephanie
02-18-2011, 10:07 AM
A lot of us knew before he was elected he was only a President for SOME OF THE PEOPLE.

Way to go you all who voted for this fraud. Hope you all are hit the hardest from this man's "visions" he has for us all.

pete311
02-18-2011, 12:00 PM
No discussion on this? You guys are slippin!

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/02/18/wisconsin.budget/index.html?hpt=T2

Little-Acorn
02-18-2011, 12:59 PM
You may recall not too long ago, when Nancy Pelosi anounced that she had seen TEA Party demonstrations where the protesters were "carrying swastikas" and otherwise trying to liken their targets to Nazis. It's one of the worst things you can say about protestors, apparently: that they were accusing others of being Nazis. Reporters trying to find those swastika-carriers kept coming up empty - there were no TEA party people carrying any such repellent symbols to be found. But Pelosi's remarks got wide press anyway, and Democrats and her other drones repeated them ad infinitum.

Well, it turns out that Nancy Pelosi wasn't wrong. She was just a few years early. Finally, yesterday, we have actual photographic proof of anti-government demonstrators comparing their targets to Hitler (also Stalin and other model citizens), carrying pictures of them with little Hitler mustaches drawn in with Magic Markers, showing posters with rifle crosshairs centered on the politicians' foreheads, etc.

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2011/02/top-15-photos-from-wisconsin-hate.html

Just one problem: The protesters aren't TEA party people. And they aren't protesting against Pelosi's Democrats. IN fact, the protesters are Democrats themselves, and SEIU union thugs bussed in from various locations around the country, to Madison Wisconsin, where they are protesting against Republican politicians. And what are those Republican politicians doing? Exactly what they promised they would do when they ran for election: Cutting government spending, curbing the huge pensions that govt-employee unions have been extorting from taxpayers (while leaving the unions ability to negotiate wages fully in place), and trying to get those employees to pay a small portion (equal to the national average, in fact) of their medical-insurance premiums.

So, now that Nancy Pelosi's descriptions of swastika-carrying protestors are finally accurate, when can we expect to see her taking the microphone and getting in front of the cameras, albeit belatedly, and excoriating those protestors who are finally doing exactly what she complained against, and said was so terrible?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-IEBsUrr2aIg/TV3UP5YFR8I/AAAAAAAAj2U/NAjdcSNkwKk/s400/110217-wi-124.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kJw4NWsjTgk/TV3UP3Fs9zI/AAAAAAAAj2M/8tZ3R-tIWL4/s400/110217-wi-138.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-eWZaTnNFwNU/TV3T_8Etq5I/AAAAAAAAj1U/e3XOFrfyqcM/s400/110217-wi-171.jpg

Kathianne
02-18-2011, 02:16 PM
No discussion on this? You guys are slippin!

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/02/18/wisconsin.budget/index.html?hpt=T2

I've been following this quite closely, just figured many don't seem to be interested in politics much right now. You have some comments about the brouhah or just on what folks are posting?

Gaffer
02-18-2011, 02:16 PM
democrats can't get their way so they run and hide. Seems to me some impeachment processes are in order here. Any that fail to show up for work should be removed from office.

Kathianne
02-18-2011, 02:17 PM
I did post on this, one response:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?30767-President-of-All-The-People&p=463729#post463729

Little-Acorn
02-18-2011, 02:17 PM
And in a related story.....

Remember how Democrats tried to hastily redefine "civility" as being "not disagreeing with what Democrats want", back when an insane whacko shot a bunch of people in Arizona? Various Dems announced he had done it because of Republicans saying Democrat policies would lead to bad things for the country. No evidence could be found that the whacko had ever even listened to any of those discussions, much less favored one side or the other. But the Dems' silly psychobabble became the Word of the Day anyway, and their hasty redefinition of "civility" became the fashionable "cure".

The Democrats told us, stridently and repeatedly, that angry rhetoric would inevitably lead to mass shootings and murders... and that those who spoke the rhetoric should be held at least partly responsible for the murders.

With that in mind, how soon can we expect the whackos in Wisconsin to start shooting their newly-elected Republican legislators and Governor?

And when will the Democrat protestors carrying these Hitler signs, "Death to Tyrants" signs, and picture of Gov. Walker with crosshairs centered on his forehead etc., accept their culpability for the deaths of those Republicans who are doing nothing but fulfilling the explicit promises they made to the people of Wisconsin, for which the Wisconsin voters put them in office?

Gaffer
02-18-2011, 02:30 PM
He's not my president. Never has been, never will be. He's a despot sitting in the presidents chair.

He's picking fights with individual states and eventually the states are going to get together and go after him.

Little-Acorn
02-18-2011, 02:57 PM
As we have recently seen, truculent Democrats staging their mass demonstrations in Madison, Wisconsin have been happily carrying posters calling Republicans "Nazis", comparing the newly-elected Republican governor to Hitler, etc.

See examples at: http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2011/02/top-15-photos-from-wisconsin-hate.html

Since they want to bring up such references, a little lesson from history is in order here.

Hitler was appointed Chancellor of Germany in 1933. But before then, Germany actually had democratic elections. Paul Hindenburg had been elected President of Germany for years, and in 1932 was re-elected with 53% percent of the popular vote. Adolf Hitler got 36% that year, making his Nazi party the ranking minority party in the German Reichstag (Germany's legislative equivalent of the U.S. House of Representatives or England's Parliament).

But Hitler and the Nazis quickly bullied their way into sole control, forcing Hindenburg to nominate Hitler as Chancellor.

And how did the Nazis do this? Any time an issue came up they did not like, but didn't have the votes to defeat (since the people of Germany had firmly voted them into minority status)... the Nazis would stand up as a group, pack up their things, and walk out of the Reichstag building, thus preventing a quorum necessary to hold any votes at all. They would secret themselves in a location from which they could not be forced back into the building for a vote, thus disrupting the democratic process the German people thought they were putting in place during the previous election.

Today, the Democrats in Wisconsin want us to think back to Hitler and the Nazis when contemplating what's going on with their Governor and Senate.

So, OK, I will. Would somebody remind us, again, who exactly is emulating Nazi tactics in the Wisconsin Senate? Which party, again, is the one that packed up their papers, walked out of the building, and fled to a location where they could not be brought back to cast the votes the people elected them to cast? (That group remains out of the state today. There is no word on when they will return.) And doing it in direct defiance of the people of Wisconsin, who deliberately elected their opponents to support democracy and pass legislation this party didn't like?



...Anybody?

...anybody?



The Democrats are trying hard today, to bring up Hitler and urge us to compare past actions of the Nazis to present goings-on in the Wisconsin state government.

They should be careful what they wish for.

And just maybe, they should study history before trying to point it out to the rest of us.

Little-Acorn
02-18-2011, 05:13 PM
Looks like the Democrats in Wisconsin are even more desperate - and disingenuous - than usual.

Apparently somebody asked newly-elected Wisconsin governor Walker what he would do if state government employees walked off the job in protest of his attempts to get them to pay 12% of their own insurance premiums. In particular, the subject of prison staffing came up. What if union government employees guarding the prisons, left? Might the prisoners get out, or riot, or etc.?

Apparently the Governor said that in that case, he would ask the Wisconsin National Guard help fill in and staff the prison posts, until the regular employees came back.

From that, now it seems that Democrat fanatics have twisted his words into saying he would use the National Guard to crush protestors, fight demonstrators, and generally treat the Wisconsin citizens as criminals.

Has anyone heard such accusations? That the Governor would call out the National Guard against protestors in general... and that he promised to do that before any protests even started? Did the reports you heard, ever quote his actual words?

Got a link to those reports?

----------------------------------------

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_03b2b8f2-38a2-11e0-913e-001cc4c002e0.html

Misconceptions spread over National Guard's role in Walker budget proposal

Posted: Monday, February 14, 2011 7:17 pm

Gov. Scott Walker has been in communication with the Wisconsin National Guard to help run the state's prisons should correction officers stay home in protest over proposed changes to collective bargaining rules for public employees.

But since the governor announced the news last week, his political opponents — and some media outlets — have raised the alarm over the prospect that the Guard would be used to keep protestors in line.

"No Wisconsin Governor has deployed the military against public employees as far back as the 1930s, showing just how radical the steps are that Gov. Walker is taking to consolidate his power," said Scot Ross, executive director of the liberal group One Wisconsin Now.

On Monday, Walker spokesman Cullen Werwie reiterated that the governor has asked the guard to be prepared only to help out with running the prison system.

There is precedent for such a move. In 2003, after hundreds of prison guards called in sick to protest stalled contracts, then-Employment Relations Secretary Karen Timberlake said Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle might have to activate the Guard to staff the prisons. The measure was ultimately not taken.

Gaffer
02-18-2011, 07:26 PM
I'm not sure about the laws in WI, but it seems the dems that have left the state are breaking the law and could be charged with felonies. This would mean special elections and a whole mess of problems for the dems.

Little-Acorn
02-18-2011, 07:49 PM
The Democrats in the Wisconsin state Senate, who fled the state in an attempt to reverse the outcome of the Nov. 2010 elections and prevent the majority from enacting legislation, are rapidly turning the farce they started into a full-blown circus. According to one of them, the truant Democrats are ready and willing to stay out for weeks if they don't get their way... regardless of the wants of the citizens of Wisconsin.

It just keeps getting better and better.

I have one question. If/when these Democrats return from their little excursion, will they be paid their normal salaries for the time they spent away from the WI Senate? ...and will they be filling out vouchers for per diem reimbursement?

Wisconsin has elections coming up in Nov. 2012, just as the Federal government does......

-----------------------------------

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110218/ap_on_re_us/us_wisconsin_budget_unions_59

Wisconsin Democrats could stay away for weeks

by Scott Bauer And Todd Richmond, Associated Press
Fri Feb 18, 2:37 pm ET

MADISON, Wis. – Democrats on the run in Wisconsin avoided state troopers Friday and threatened to stay in hiding for weeks, potentially paralyzing a state government they no longer control.

The party's stand against balancing the state's budget by cutting the pay, benefits and collective bargaining rights of public workers is the boldest action yet by Democrats to push back against last fall's GOP wave.

But the dramatic strategy that's clogged the Capitol with thousands of protesters clashes with one essential truth: Republicans told everyone unions would be a target, and the GOP has more than enough votes to pass its plans once the Legislature can convene.

The 14 Senate Democrats left the state Thursday, delaying action in that chamber on a sweeping anti-union bill. Sen. Jon Erpenbach, who was among those who fled, said Friday that the group was prepared to be away for weeks, although he would like the standoff to end as soon as possible.

"That really, truly is up to the governor," he told The Associated Press in an interview Friday at a downtown Chicago hotel. "It's his responsibility to bring the state together. The state is not unified. It is totally torn apart."

[Editor's Note: Senator Erpenbach, isn't it the responsibility of the people who tore it apart, to put it together again? That would be you, wouldn't it? -LA]

Little-Acorn
02-18-2011, 07:59 PM
I'm not sure about the laws in WI, but it seems the dems that have left the state are breaking the law and could be charged with felonies. This would mean special elections and a whole mess of problems for the dems.

Which law, exactly?

Cite? Link?

Little-Acorn
02-18-2011, 08:27 PM
All the Democrat state Senators in the Wisconsin state government, have fled the state to disrupt any possible voting and bring the government of the state to a halt. Latest word is, they may stay out for weeks.

Is this just a trial run for the Democrats, in preparation for their shutting down the U.S. government nationwide if/when U.S. House leftists similarly don't get their way after the voters put Republicans into the majority to cut the national govt budget?

BoogyMan
02-18-2011, 09:21 PM
Un-freakin-believable. First the anti-democracy morons run away so they won't lose a fair vote and now Obama's bussed in loons have so poisoned the atmosphere as to make it no longer safe to assemble.



Link (http://budget.wispolitics.com/2011/02/jeff-fitzgerald-assembly-adjourned.html)

Speaker Jeff Fitzgerald said he decided to adjourn the Assembly this evening because Gov. Scott Walker called minutes before lawmakers took the floor to tell him to get his caucus members and staff out of the building because their safety could no longer be assured.
...


Correction of title: should be "astroturf." :)

SassyLady
02-19-2011, 06:03 AM
As we have recently seen, truculent Democrats staging their mass demonstrations in Madison, Wisconsin have been happily carrying posters calling Republicans "Nazis", comparing the newly-elected Republican governor to Hitler, etc.

See examples at: http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2011/02/top-15-photos-from-wisconsin-hate.html

Since they want to bring up such references, a little lesson from history is in order here.

Hitler was appointed Chancellor of Germany in 1933. But before then, Germany actually had democratic elections. Paul Hindenburg had been elected President of Germany for years, and in 1932 was re-elected with 53% percent of the popular vote. Adolf Hitler got 36% that year, making his Nazi party the ranking minority party in the German Reichstag (Germany's legislative equivalent of the U.S. House of Representatives or England's Parliament).

But Hitler and the Nazis quickly bullied their way into sole control, forcing Hindenburg to nominate Hitler as Chancellor.

And how did the Nazis do this? Any time an issue came up they did not like, but didn't have the votes to defeat (since the people of Germany had firmly voted them into minority status)... the Nazis would stand up as a group, pack up their things, and walk out of the Reichstag building, thus preventing a quorum necessary to hold any votes at all. They would secret themselves in a location from which they could not be forced back into the building for a vote, thus disrupting the democratic process the German people thought they were putting in place during the previous election.

Today, the Democrats in Wisconsin want us to think back to Hitler and the Nazis when contemplating what's going on with their Governor and Senate.

So, OK, I will. Would somebody remind us, again, who exactly is emulating Nazi tactics in the Wisconsin Senate? Which party, again, is the one that packed up their papers, walked out of the building, and fled to a location where they could not be brought back to cast the votes the people elected them to cast? (That group remains out of the state today. There is no word on when they will return.) And doing it in direct defiance of the people of Wisconsin, who deliberately elected their opponents to support democracy and pass legislation this party didn't like?



...Anybody?

...anybody?



The Democrats are trying hard today, to bring up Hitler and urge us to compare past actions of the Nazis to present goings-on in the Wisconsin state government.

They should be careful what they wish for.

And just maybe, they should study history before trying to point it out to the rest of us.

I think those Dem Senators watch too much of The View ... liberals are famous for walking away from the truth and then reinventing the situation to whitewash their tantrums.

SassyLady
02-19-2011, 06:09 AM
All the Democrat state Senators in the Wisconsin state government, have fled the state to disrupt any possible voting and bring the government of the state to a halt. Latest word is, they may stay out for weeks.

Is this just a trial run for the Democrats, in preparation for their shutting down the U.S. government nationwide if/when U.S. House leftists similarly don't get their way after the voters put Republicans into the majority to cut the national govt budget?

Does it seem to anyone else, other than me, that Obama is encouraging revolution worldwide ... including his own country?


Obama joins Wisconsin's budget battle, opposing Republican anti-union bill

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/17/AR2011021705494.html

SassyLady
02-19-2011, 06:11 AM
Looks like the Democrats in Wisconsin are even more desperate - and disingenuous - than usual.

Apparently somebody asked newly-elected Wisconsin governor Walker what he would do if state government employees walked off the job in protest of his attempts to get them to pay 12% of their own insurance premiums. In particular, the subject of prison staffing came up. What if union government employees guarding the prisons, left? Might the prisoners get out, or riot, or etc.?

Apparently the Governor said that in that case, he would ask the Wisconsin National Guard help fill in and staff the prison posts, until the regular employees came back.

From that, now it seems that Democrat fanatics have twisted his words into saying he would use the National Guard to crush protestors, fight demonstrators, and generally treat the Wisconsin citizens as criminals.

Has anyone heard such accusations? That the Governor would call out the National Guard against protestors in general... and that he promised to do that before any protests even started? Did the reports you heard, ever quote his actual words?

Got a link to those reports?

----------------------------------------

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_03b2b8f2-38a2-11e0-913e-001cc4c002e0.html

Misconceptions spread over National Guard's role in Walker budget proposal

Posted: Monday, February 14, 2011 7:17 pm

Gov. Scott Walker has been in communication with the Wisconsin National Guard to help run the state's prisons should correction officers stay home in protest over proposed changes to collective bargaining rules for public employees.

But since the governor announced the news last week, his political opponents — and some media outlets — have raised the alarm over the prospect that the Guard would be used to keep protestors in line.

"No Wisconsin Governor has deployed the military against public employees as far back as the 1930s, showing just how radical the steps are that Gov. Walker is taking to consolidate his power," said Scot Ross, executive director of the liberal group One Wisconsin Now.

On Monday, Walker spokesman Cullen Werwie reiterated that the governor has asked the guard to be prepared only to help out with running the prison system.

There is precedent for such a move. In 2003, after hundreds of prison guards called in sick to protest stalled contracts, then-Employment Relations Secretary Karen Timberlake said Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle might have to activate the Guard to staff the prisons. The measure was ultimately not taken.

I guess it's a good thing the National Guard isn't unionized. Wonder what those soldiers would do if called up who are members of a union. Would they be considered crossing the picket line?

SassyLady
02-19-2011, 06:21 AM
The Democrats in the Wisconsin state Senate, who fled the state in an attempt to reverse the outcome of the Nov. 2010 elections and prevent the majority from enacting legislation, are rapidly turning the farce they started into a full-blown circus. According to one of them, the truant Democrats are ready and willing to stay out for weeks if they don't get their way... regardless of the wants of the citizens of Wisconsin.

It just keeps getting better and better.

I have one question. If/when these Democrats return from their little excursion, will they be paid their normal salaries for the time they spent away from the WI Senate? ...and will they be filling out vouchers for per diem reimbursement?

Wisconsin has elections coming up in Nov. 2012, just as the Federal government does......

-----------------------------------

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110218/ap_on_re_us/us_wisconsin_budget_unions_59

Wisconsin Democrats could stay away for weeks

by Scott Bauer And Todd Richmond, Associated Press
Fri Feb 18, 2:37 pm ET

MADISON, Wis. – Democrats on the run in Wisconsin avoided state troopers Friday and threatened to stay in hiding for weeks, potentially paralyzing a state government they no longer control.

The party's stand against balancing the state's budget by cutting the pay, benefits and collective bargaining rights of public workers is the boldest action yet by Democrats to push back against last fall's GOP wave.

But the dramatic strategy that's clogged the Capitol with thousands of protesters clashes with one essential truth: Republicans told everyone unions would be a target, and the GOP has more than enough votes to pass its plans once the Legislature can convene.

The 14 Senate Democrats left the state Thursday, delaying action in that chamber on a sweeping anti-union bill. Sen. Jon Erpenbach, who was among those who fled, said Friday that the group was prepared to be away for weeks, although he would like the standoff to end as soon as possible.

"That really, truly is up to the governor," he told The Associated Press in an interview Friday at a downtown Chicago hotel. "It's his responsibility to bring the state together. The state is not unified. It is totally torn apart."

[Editor's Note: Senator Erpenbach, isn't it the responsibility of the people who tore it apart, to put it together again? That would be you, wouldn't it? -LA]

Talk about insubordination! If I didn't like an assignment given to me by my boss and decided to leave town until he withdrew the assignment .. I'D BE FIRED!!!

These people need to go.

SassyLady
02-19-2011, 06:22 AM
On another note ... I wish the Republicans had fled Washington when the whole Obamacare issue came up.

Kathianne
02-19-2011, 08:42 AM
This last line jumped out at me,
"That really, truly is up to the governor," he told The Associated Press in an interview Friday at a downtown Chicago hotel. "It's his responsibility to bring the state together. The state is not unified. It is totally torn apart."

Now that's a false premise if ever I saw one. It, the people of the state, voted in a clear way just a few months ago. No, what is happening in the state legislature is one party is determined to not go along with the vote, they believe they can thwart it by creating a crisis. That party incited segments of government workers effected to add to the imagined crisis atmosphere.

The real crisis is the attempt to overturn the results of the election and see how the voters feel at the next election. People should be furious and if someone is familiar with WI and know what some of the reactions are I'd love to hear them.

Kathianne
02-19-2011, 08:49 AM
Does it seem to anyone else, other than me, that Obama is encouraging revolution worldwide ... including his own country?

Obama and the DNC are behind much, if not instigating what is going on in WI:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0211/DNC_playing_role_in_Wisconsin_protests.html?showal l


The Democratic National Committee's Organizing for America arm -- the remnant of the 2008 Obama campaign -- is playing an active role in organizing protests against Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker's attempt to strip most public employees of collective bargaining rights.

OfA, as the campaign group is known, has been criticized at times for staying out of local issues like same-sex marriage, but it's riding to the aide of the public sector unions who hoping to persuade some Republican legislators to oppose Walker's plan. And while Obama may have his difference with teachers unions, OfA's engagement with the fight -- and Obama's own clear stance against Walker -- mean that he's remaining loyal to key Democratic Party allies at what is, for them, a very dangerous moment.

OfA Wisconsin's field efforts include filling buses and building turnout for the rallies this week in Madison, organizing 15 rapid response phone banks urging supporters to call their state legislators, and working on planning and producing rallies, a Democratic Party official in Washington said.

The @OFA_WI twitter account has published 54 tweets promoting the rallies, which the group has also plugged on its blog...

Kathianne
02-19-2011, 09:02 AM
Since it looks like this story is going to be around awhile, like threads merged.

Gaffer
02-19-2011, 09:30 AM
Which law, exactly?

Cite? Link?

Can't cite anything. It was just in an article I read among many, don't remember which one. Most likely someone blowing smoke that has no clue.

I would like to see some prosecution of these guys tho or removal from office. "We're not coming back until you do as we say", (paraphrased). That sounds like extortion to me.

Gaffer
02-19-2011, 09:41 AM
And it's all orchestrated at the white house.

Kathianne
02-19-2011, 09:59 AM
Right on time, comes AP leading the media with how enlightened these protests are:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110219/ap_on_re_us/us_wisconsin_budget_unions


Wis. rallies renew history of political activism
By DINESH RAMDE, Associated Press Dinesh Ramde, Associated Press 3 mins ago

MADISON, Wis. – A birthplace of the progressive movement is crackling with a fervor not seen in decades, as students from the famously liberal University of Wisconsin team up with unionized state workers for demonstrations against changes to collective bargaining rights pushed by the state's new Republican governor. The biggest rally yet is expected Saturday, along with an influx of conservative counter-protesters.

As many as 40,000 people swarmed the Capitol on Friday, raising the noise in its rotunda to earsplitting levels as they rallied to block Republican Gov. Scott Walker's efforts to ease Wisconsin's budget woes by cutting many government workers' pay, benefits and bargaining rights.

No stranger to political unrest, Madison has seen activists take to the streets to protest the Vietnam war, support civil rights and oppose cuts in social services. Riots ensued 15 years ago when police clamped down on an annual block party that began as an anti-war protest in 1969.

Some say this week's rallies are unmatched in their sustained, impassioned energy — bolstered by Senate Democrats who fled the state to delay action on Walker's proposal and threatened to stay in hiding for weeks if calls for negotiation go unheeded. State troopers were sent to retrieve the Democratic minority leader from his home Friday, but their knocks went unanswered.

"That's jaw-dropping. This is uncharted," said Mordecai Lee, a UW-Milwaukee political scientist and former state lawmaker who said he's been reminded this week of when motorcycle riders' protest of a helmet law in the late 1970s persuaded legislators to overturn the measure...

Kathianne
02-19-2011, 10:08 AM
John Fund nails the real elements in the WI brouhaha. It's not about the CHILDREN, but about the unions:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704900004576152172777557748.html?m od=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop


* FEBRUARY 19, 2011

What's at Stake in Wisconsin's Budget Battle
Who's in charge of our political system—voters or unions?

By JOHN FUND

This week President Obama was roundly criticized, even by many of his allies, for submitting a federal budget that actually increases our already crushing deficit. But that didn't stop him Thursday from jumping into Wisconsin's titanic budget battle. He accused the new Republican governor, Scott Walker, of launching an "assault" on unions with his emergency legislation aimed at cutting the state budget.

The real assault this week was led by Organizing for America, the successor to President's Obama's 2008 campaign organization. It helped fill buses of protesters who flooded the state capital of Madison and ran 15 phone banks urging people to call state legislators.

Mr. Walker's proposals are hardly revolutionary. Facing a $137 million budget deficit, he has decided to try to avoid laying off 5,500 state workers by proposing that they contribute 5.8% of their income towards their pensions and 12.6% towards health insurance. That's roughly the national average for public pension payments, and it is less than half the national average of what government workers contribute to health care. Mr. Walker also wants to limit the power of public-employee unions to negotiate contracts and work rules—something that 24 states already limit or ban...

... Labor historian Fred Siegel offers further reasons why unions are manning the barricades. Mr. Walker would require that public-employee unions be recertified annually by a majority vote of all their members, not merely by a majority of those that choose to cast ballots. In addition, he would end the government’s practice of automatically deducting union dues from employee paychecks. For Wisconsin teachers, union dues total between $700 and $1,000 a year.

...“Ending dues deductions breaks the political cycle in which government collects dues, gives them to the unions, who then use the dues to back their favorite candidates and also lobby for bigger government and more pay and benefits,” Mr. Siegel told me. After New York City’s Transport Workers Union lost the right to automatic dues collection in 2007 following an illegal strike, its income fell by more than 35% as many members stopped ponying up...



I've been wondering how those voters are feeling about all this, my guess now is not too happy:

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_a05349be-3be1-11e0-b0a1-001cc4c002e0.html


Unions offer concessions as Capitol stalemate, protests continue
DEE J. HALL, MARY SPICUZZA and CLAY BARBOUR | Wisconsin State Journal

...Top leaders of two of Wisconsin's largest public employee unions announced they are willing to accept the financial concessions called for in Walker's plan, but will not accept the loss of collective bargaining rights....

BoogyMan
02-19-2011, 12:21 PM
Since it looks like this story is going to be around awhile, like threads merged.

:rolleyes:

This whole situation is frought with interesting tidbits like teachers carrying signs that claim they are "doing this for the kids," etc.

Every teacher that doesn't show up for work Monday and doesn't have a doctors note proving that they are truly ill should be replaced.

Kathianne
02-19-2011, 01:01 PM
:rolleyes:

This whole situation is frought with interesting tidbits like teachers carrying signs that claim they are "doing this for the kids," etc.

Every teacher that doesn't show up for work Monday and doesn't have a doctors note proving that they are truly ill should be replaced.

I totally agree. Under the circumstances should have been done when the calls started coming in.

OldMercsRule
02-19-2011, 01:11 PM
Nope, he's looking way too much like a tinpot dictator

Hey Teach.... do ya know what a "tinpot dictater" even looooooooks like? :laugh2:



with what's going down in Wisconsin.

"What's goin' down in Wisconsin" jus' maybe the death of the modern union funded dim wit Democrat party. Let's all hope soooooooo..... Yip YIP YAHOOO.


He could be calling for the legislators to act like public servants, but that would mean calling all of them out:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0211/DNC_playing_role_in_Wisconsin_protests.html

Hmmmmmmmmm ya think?

BoogyMan
02-19-2011, 02:04 PM
I totally agree. Under the circumstances should have been done when the calls started coming in.

It appears that the Dr. Note aspect has been covered by the union crew.



Link (http://maciverinstitute.com/2011/02/fake-doctors-notes-being-handed-out-at-wisconsin-gov-union-rally/)

[Madison, WI] As tens of thousands of public employees skipped work this week to attend protest rallies outside the Wisconsin State Capitol, many wondered if they would face any disciplinary action for unexcused absences.

On Saturday, a group of men and women in lab coats purporting to be doctors were handing out medical excuse notes, without examining the ‘patients.’
...

Kathianne
02-19-2011, 02:26 PM
It appears that the Dr. Note aspect has been covered by the union crew.

A U of W MD professor. Hmmm, seems very unethical.

fj1200
02-19-2011, 05:28 PM
The TX Dems went AWOL a few years ago too, redistricting beef as I recall.

BoogyMan
02-19-2011, 07:20 PM
The TX Dems went AWOL a few years ago too, redistricting beef as I recall.

Yeah, our loons here in Texas ran off to New Mexico.

logroller
02-19-2011, 07:59 PM
The Nazi references quickly turn my interests sour. I believe thisis a political tactic that will backfire, but I suppose its upto them to pursue the tactics they feel necessary. In CA we have smilar collective bargaining issues at the county level I know. I have friends who are facing pay cuts they don't want,but when asked where else to make cuts-- silence. Alas, everybody seems perfectly content running the pension programs into the ground. Let the state bail everybody out, no need for personal responsibility-- just give me what I want or I'm leaving. Pussies!!!!

Beyond that in my state, as per WI; it sounds like a state issue; not my state, not my issue. Any posters on here living in Wisconson- please continue, if not butt out!

stephanie
02-21-2011, 10:57 AM
Does it seem to anyone else, other than me, that Obama is encouraging revolution worldwide ... including his own country?

It sure seems that way to me.
We better prepare ourselves, I see more of this like in Wisconsin coming. The Obama and the Democrats NEED THIS.

Little-Acorn
02-21-2011, 12:31 PM
The Nazi references quickly turn my interests sour.

In other words, they worked.

When the liberals know they are backing the losing side of an issue, they start screaming "Nazi", with "racist" coming in a close second.

This turns off enough people to make them throw up their hands and start ignoring the whole debate... which effectively hides the liberals' stupidity and classlessness from them.

The strategy in a battle where you are on the defensive, isn't to win. It's to avoid losing the PR battle. Driving away the audience, accomplishes that.

revelarts
02-21-2011, 12:41 PM
interesting line of commentary here.

Seems to me that this is a mixed bag issue. the unions should have certain rights that shouldn't be curtailed. Any group of employees should have the right to get to together to deal with their employer, be they gov or private.
However the Gov't shouldn't be forced to help the group collect there dues, or be strong armed into every positions though. And just like the dems are SO hypocritical in bringing up the nazi refs so are we if we are upset with some of the other tactics, it seems to me, even leaving the state, when some of us on the right are considering seceding from the Union. And are willing to shut down gov't by not funding it. Seems to me that's at least as drastic as not showing up for votes to get what they want. And not showing up at school "for the kids" . Though what they want has some flaws IMO. i don't see their actions as beyond the pale in general. i respect the effort. And If those on the constitutional/freedom side did similar I'd applaud them for their efforts to make drastic changes in the face of unconstitutional majority opposition. Might doesn't make right. When the Dems took of all of congress the Republicans didn't lay down (for what that's worth) not sure why we should expect the dems too. Even though they seem to only want for fight for more "national socialistic ... " stuff.

But the nazi thing is funny.
I pray nothing happens to anyone . But if it does it WON"T be the fault of demonstrators signs this time either. And Somehow I imagine that the Dems will be able to see that if it does happen, Strange. huh?

logroller
02-21-2011, 03:00 PM
In other words, they worked.

When the liberals know they are backing the losing side of an issue, they start screaming "Nazi", with "racist" coming in a close second.

This turns off enough people to make them throw up their hands and start ignoring the whole debate... which effectively hides the liberals' stupidity and classlessness from them.

The strategy in a battle where you are on the defensive, isn't to win. It's to avoid losing the PR battle. Driving away the audience, accomplishes that.

If these persons seek not to reason, but inflame, then yes their tactics worked. But for something to work, something must be done-- which by not showing up they have not, in my estimation, done any work. People, even their supporters, will seek someone who does do something-- even if its wrong. I believe the issue at hand is rather people can be required to unionize. Seems to me that so many unionied workers have no choice, and this is in itself hypocritical as unions originated as a protection for workers from the profiteering motives of large business. Now it would appear unions have supplanted the role of the oppressor. What's troubling beyond comparison is the spread of such forced participation into many aspects of our society(eg obamacare); invariably the solution of last resort is not to participate, which meets with even more criticism.
I quote Bocephus in our need for a "Coalition to ban coalitions, I ain't a politician, but I got views...Why can't everybody else leave everybody else alone?!"

Kathianne
02-21-2011, 06:59 PM
A U of W MD professor. Hmmm, seems very unethical.

SCORE!

http://www.uwhealth.org/news/statement-regarding-uw-health-physicians/30653


Statement Regarding UW Health Physicians

UW HealthThere are reports on both social media and news websites that a number of UW Health physicians were signing "medical excuse" notes for protesters at the Capitol on Feb. 19. This involves a few individuals out of the nearly 1,300 physicians at UW Health.

These UW Health physicians were acting on their own and without the knowledge or approval of UW Health. These charges are very serious and in response, University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health and University of Wisconsin Medical Foundation, the UW Health entities that employ the physicians, have immediately launched an investigation of the reported behavior.

The investigation will identify which UW Health physicians were involved and whether their behavior constituted violations of medical ethics or University of Wisconsin and UW Health policies and work rules. The investigation and any potential future action will follow the established procedures of the University of Wisconsin. Any future disciplinary action taken will be considered a personnel matter and will be treated with the confidentiality required by University of Wisconsin policies.

Date Published: 02/21/2011

Indy
02-21-2011, 10:21 PM
The Nazi references quickly turn my interests sour. I believe thisis a political tactic that will backfire, but I suppose its upto them to pursue the tactics they feel necessary. In CA we have smilar collective bargaining issues at the county level I know. I have friends who are facing pay cuts they don't want,but when asked where else to make cuts-- silence. Alas, everybody seems perfectly content running the pension programs into the ground. Let the state bail everybody out, no need for personal responsibility-- just give me what I want or I'm leaving. Pussies!!!!

Beyond that in my state, as per WI; it sounds like a state issue; not my state, not my issue. Any posters on here living in Wisconson- please continue, if not butt out!

Living in California doesn't get any easier my friend.San Diego is nearly broke because of the pension crisis. How crazy is it that the man responsible for much of the mess this state is in has been elected to Governor. Moonbeam Brown hasn't met a tax or fee he didn't like. Between the liberals, invirowhackos and CARB this state is financially destitute. Higher utilities gas and food are the results of liberal non-solutions.Not to worry though, Moonbeam is going to make sure the child of every illegal in the state gets a free college education. Nothing like Wisconson, will happen in this state, not with Moonbeam as Governor. We just had the head Librarian retire with almost twice her salary in her pension.http://www.votecarldemaio.com/newsdisplay.php?flag=readmore&vid=110

logroller
02-22-2011, 01:31 AM
Living in California doesn't get any easier my friend.San Diego is nearly broke because of the pension crisis. How crazy is it that the man responsible for much of the mess this state is in has been elected to Governor. Moonbeam Brown hasn't met a tax or fee he didn't like. Between the liberals, invirowhackos and CARB this state is financially destitute. Higher utilities gas and food are the results of liberal non-solutions.Not to worry though, Moonbeam is going to make sure the child of every illegal in the state gets a free college education. Nothing like Wisconson, will happen in this state, not with Moonbeam as Governor. We just had the head Librarian retire with almost twice her salary in her pension.http://www.votecarldemaio.com/newsdisplay.php?flag=readmore&vid=110

Indeed. Not sure why you villify "moonbeam" so. Seems to me he is committed to lowering govt spending significantly. Reagan was govnr after he was, why didn't the recently polled greatest prez fix all the f-ups brown inflicted? Truth is, Ca is a liberal state and is often the test bed for progressive policy. Many, if not most, are destined for failure- resting the laurels of Ca's depth of economy to provide buoyancy to such failures.

You wanna get rid of the migrant illegals-- eliminate their jobs, as soon as govt loses out on the unclaimed tax revenue they'll have reason to evict them. Illegal immigrants may well cheat the system, an unfortunate occurence, but the few illegals I know actually pay taxes and are more conservatively minded than most of my fellow citizens. I know theycame here illegally and that is a violation of our federal laws and we should treat them as criminals-- but the few I know have a better work ethic and contribute more to the economy than most of my friends of legal status; hell half of the people I know work for the govt, so they're on the dole to no uncertain extent. Furthermore, those who work for govt spend far less than I do on retiremnt funds, playing shill games just as you mentioned to maximize their returns on the backs of the taxpayer, bitchin all the way about 2% times years served of their already inflated income. Teachers truly do hold the key to our future gennerations, so I'm more critical of their pay scales. Why on earth do they rceive more pay purely based on time served, as opposed to their continued education to make them better at what they do-- this is the biggest travesty ever committed by unions, IMO.

Higher utility bills and food prices, not a problem for me. I turn off lights, utilize programmable thermostats, grow as much food as I can. The solutions are there, you just have to adopt fiscally conservative practices beyond shopping for the lowest price. What's your annual consumption of electricity? Have you contacted your utility provider about potential means of saving? Most of their services are no-cost to low-cost. Hell you're already paying for it, you might as well take advantage. So often I find myself placing the blame upon others, dodging the ready solutions I, myself, am able to implement. How's that saying go: we can't think our way out of a problem we acted ourselves into. Likewise, you vote with every dollar you spend. Unhappy with the price of something, find a way to bypass the market; it's not so difficult if you're determined. Talk to your friends and neighbors about a garden, sponsor a potluck style meal-- its more cost-effective, energy efficient and has social benefits as well. Attend a city hall meeting with these neighbors, talk about the issues before hand, send an email follow up to your local representatives and forward it the state rep; you'd be suprised what a response you get. I did this five years ago regarding the need for a commuter train and I still get feedback to which I lobby in turn, it hasn't happened yet, but I promised to buy bonds in support-- puttin my money where my mouth is. Its my state, born and raised, and I take responsibility for its future, fiscally or otherwise.:salute:

logroller
02-25-2011, 01:34 PM
Democrats launched a filibuster, throwing out dozens of amendments and delivering rambling speeches. Each time Republicans tried to speed up the proceedings, Democrats rose from their seats and wailed that the GOP was stifling them.

Debate had gone on for 60 hours and 15 Democrats were still waiting to speak when the vote started around 1 a.m. Friday. Speaker Pro Tem Bill Kramer, R-Waukesha, opened the roll and closed it within seconds.

Democrats looked around, bewildered. Only 13 of the 38 Democratic members managed to vote in time.

Breaking the filibuster may have consequences. What intirgues me most is rather the people of WI, as a majority, are against this bill. There is always opposition, but will the opposition affect the next elections. Hinging upon the passage of the legislation, of course, what percentage of voters will be affected by this bill? Even if this doesn't pass unamended, has their already been damage done to the repoire of the unionized factions and the democratic minority? No doubt unions, both local and nationwide, will throw massive amounts of money into fighting this; but will this bill's passage in the house alone be seen as failure of the union, delivering them less favorable support?


The governor has said that if the bill does not pass by Friday, the state will miss a deadline to refinance $165 million of debt and will be forced to start issuing layoff notices next week. However, the deadline may not as strict as he says.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/02/25/business/AP-US-Wisconsin-Budget-Unions.html?_r=2&hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1298631752-rTT7SZojtHVK+m2I6/BhzQ

What precedence is there for a governor seeking federal relief to a quorum-busting flight to another state? Understanding this presents a quandry for separate powers, but given the SCOTUS's liberal application of the commerce clause, couldn't the harboring of a state legislator ,akin to unlawful flight, be construed as interfering with interstate commerce?

Kathianne
02-25-2011, 03:11 PM
Breaking the filibuster may have consequences. What intirgues me most is rather the people of WI, as a majority, are against this bill. There is always opposition, but will the opposition affect the next elections. Hinging upon the passage of the legislation, of course, what percentage of voters will be affected by this bill? Even if this doesn't pass unamended, has their already been damage done to the repoire of the unionized factions and the democratic minority? No doubt unions, both local and nationwide, will throw massive amounts of money into fighting this; but will this bill's passage in the house alone be seen as failure of the union, delivering them less favorable support?


http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/02/25/business/AP-US-Wisconsin-Budget-Unions.html?_r=2&hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1298631752-rTT7SZojtHVK+m2I6/BhzQ

What precedence is there for a governor seeking federal relief to a quorum-busting flight to another state? Understanding this presents a quandry for separate powers, but given the SCOTUS's liberal application of the commerce clause, couldn't the harboring of a state legislator ,akin to unlawful flight, be construed as interfering with interstate commerce?

I've not seen anything that says the people of WI are against or for the bill. I've seen the protesters, but no polls, the NYT article doesn't make such an assertion.

Here's a compromise that seems fair for the teachers, other workers, and unions. The governor takes the offered payments for insurance and pensions. He leaves the unions in place for now, with the caveat that teachers and other workers may opt in or out. If they opt in, since so many want to, those members can pick up a form at the building they report to daily and fill it out if they want payroll deduction of dues or they can choose to pay their dues directly to the union. If they opt out, that should be their choice.

Palin Rider
02-26-2011, 02:47 PM
I've not seen anything that says the people of WI are against or for the bill.

And yet you bill the people of WI as enemies of the Democrats in the OP! :laugh:

I would think that only Burger King Kid would be unashamed of such an artless flipflop.

logroller
02-26-2011, 06:22 PM
And yet you bill the people of WI as enemies of the Democrats in the OP! :laugh:

I would think that only Burger King Kid would be unashamed of such an artless flipflop.

uhhhhhh...what exactly did you mean???? It makes no sense to me.


Otherwise-- Glad to see ur posting again-- been slow round here. U get banned or something:laugh:

Palin Rider
02-26-2011, 07:11 PM
uhhhhhh...what exactly did you mean???? It makes no sense to me.

I was talking about the title on the OP:


Wisconsin Democrat Legislative Minority V People of Wisconsin

followed by:


I've not seen anything that says the people of WI are against or for the bill.

Apparently she was for the idea of WI voters being for the bill, and now she's against the idea.



Otherwise-- Glad to see ur posting again-- been slow round here. U get banned or something:laugh:

Not that it would ever surprise me, but I just took a break. Glad to see that you're still here, too. Someone with sense has to hang around to control the local fucknuts. :happy0203:

jimnyc
02-26-2011, 07:27 PM
Someone with sense has to hang around to control the local fucknuts. :happy0203:

Are we supposed to be controlled with idiotic one liners, sarcasm and lack of knowledge? You should run for office, you would fit in perfectly with perhaps the lowest rated Dems ever to hold office.

Kathianne
02-26-2011, 07:52 PM
Are we supposed to be controlled with idiotic one liners, sarcasm and lack of knowledge? You should run for office, you would fit in perfectly with perhaps the lowest rated Dems ever to hold office.

One liners is all the troll is capable of, that's been obvious for a long time. He doesn't understand that the people of WI voted last November. That elections have consequences and the Democrat Senators of the state legislature abandoned their state for the unions.

The troll probably has a one liner for the unions being for the 'middle class.' Like hell, the reason the Democrats want de facto closed shop is that the money that the unions take in automatically from deductions is significantly transferred back to the Democratic candidates in the following election cycle. Win win for unions and Democrats, loss for the people of WI.

Palin Rider
02-26-2011, 09:53 PM
The troll probably has a one liner for the unions being for the 'middle class.' Like hell, the reason the Democrats want de facto closed shop is that the money that the unions take in automatically from deductions is significantly transferred back to the Democratic candidates in the following election cycle. Win win for unions and Democrats, loss for the people of WI.

Acutally, the harpy is wrong about that one. I'm all for union shops in the private sector, but I tend to agree with FDR that unionized government jobs do more harm than good.

Palin Rider
02-26-2011, 09:55 PM
Are we supposed to be controlled with idiotic one liners, sarcasm and lack of knowledge? You should run for office, you would fit in perfectly with perhaps the lowest rated Dems ever to hold office.

You realize you just grouped yourself in with the fucknuts...

red states rule
02-27-2011, 08:32 AM
and we see the union thugs doing what they do best

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dyA-IAkVAwE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Palin Rider
02-27-2011, 01:14 PM
and we see the union thugs doing what they do best

That's a different union in a different state, Burger King Kid. Another pathetic troll point for you.

red states rule
02-28-2011, 03:55 AM
It is fun to watch a liberal being taken to school on taxes. Libs usually show they do not have any idea what they are talking about

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Palin Rider
02-28-2011, 09:18 PM
It is fun to watch a liberal being taken to school on taxes. Libs usually show they do not have any idea what they are talking about

And this one's light years off topic. Two troll points for Burger King Kid.