Writing Is On The Wall

[Kathianne]

It will be interesting to see how the public empathizes with the union workers that abandoned them during a crisis. While HA is luckier than most of the US in their winter weather, it's still more than an inconvenience:

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110305_heco_strike_1300_workers_walk_off_the_job _amid_outages.html


HECO strike: 1,300 workers walk off the job amid outages

By Alan Yonan Jr. and Rob Shikina

POSTED: 01:30 a.m. HST, Mar 05, 2011

Hawaiian Electric Co. used managers and outside contractors to repair storm-damaged power lines yesterday after its unionized work force walked off the job over a contract dispute.

HECO executives said the strike would slow efforts to restore service to about 8,000 Oahu homes and businesses, mostly in the Ewa Beach area, that were without power last night.

"We do have management crews out there to see what we can do about the Ewa Beach situation in particular this evening, and we will do our best to restore as much of that service as possible," said Robbie Alm, HECO executive vice president. "I don't want to guarantee that, obviously, we don't have our normal full crews out there."

About 1,300 HECO workers who are members of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 1260 went on strike at 3:30 p.m. yesterday and began walking picket lines on Oahu, the Big Island and in Maui County.

The workers rejected last month a tentative contract agreement reached between union leaders and management, setting the stage for the strike...

Gov. Neil Abercrombie urged HECO workers to make restoring power to all customers their priority.

"I have spoken with leaders of Hawaiian Electric Co. and the union. My thought is that they can set aside their respective positions during this emergency situation until the public's safety is taken care of," the governor said. "The most important thing right now is restoring electric services for residents and ensuring their health and security, then resume negotiations."...

[NightTrain]

IBEW is the union I belong to, mine is a different chapter of course.

I'm surprised that they'd strike when there's power out like that, while it does leverage their position better with management I think it was a very bad move because now you've got safety issues and the end user is now swinging anti-union if they weren't already before.

Someone made a bad call here, probably called a bluff and now they're stuck at the worst of times.

[Kathianne]

IBEW is the union I belong to, mine is a different chapter of course.

I'm surprised that they'd strike when there's power out like that, while it does leverage their position better with management I think it was a very bad move because now you've got safety issues and the end user is now swinging anti-union if they weren't already before.

Someone made a bad call here, probably called a bluff and now they're stuck at the worst of times.

I belonged to IBEW back in the 70's. Commercial service rep for Bell System. Never had a strike and was in management by second contract. In general the relationship at the time between mgmnt and labor was good, which was not the best of times as it was huge inflation regarding energy and the Iranian hostage crisis. Weird times, I was just out of college.

[NightTrain]

The relationship here in AK is healthy between the two factions, we've never even come close to a strike since I've been in IBEW.

Of course, pulling a stunt like what's going on in HI would be a LOT more dangerous here because of the climate, and the public relations ramifications would be hideous to behold afterwards. The last thing you want is a black eye due to the general public being out of service while differences are being settled.

I have a different take on unions than most of you here, and that probably is because there seems to be a completely different outlook & work ethic between AK and the rest of the country - the bullshit you hear about with the Auto Unions would never fly here and IMO that's a case of unions getting too powerful combined with shitty attitudes from the members.

We perform better than the non-union shops, and I can't tell you how many times I've gone in to fix slipshod work done by some guy in a non-union outfit who just didn't give a damn and probably didn't know any better due to zero-to-none training. But he/she definitely didn't care.

There's a big difference between something that looks beautiful & doesn't work and something that looks like hell & doesn't work - there's too many people that don't understand that simple concept and I had that drilled into me by every one of my Journeymen as an apprentice.

The good ones are going to go where the money is. That's a universal truth no matter if you're talking about Healthcare Industry or the Electrical Industry. Brand X here in AK pays their guys a third of IBEW scale with crappy benefits, and with a couple of exceptions they don't deserve even that - I've seen remote villages lose communications because some knucklehead floated fibers 3 feet out from the panel. Repair jobs like that are nice because the locals truly appreciate quality workmanship that is as solid as we can make it, and it's damn pretty to look at when it's done.

Anyway, I guess the point I'm trying to make here in my ramblings is that not all unions are bad despite the shenanigans going on in WI, HI and other places. We work our asses off and do the best job we can. When it's 30 below in the middle of a blizzard at 3 AM and the lights go out, it's an IBEW guy up on top that pole fixing the problem in Alaska.

[Kathianne]

The relationship here in AK is healthy between the two factions, we've never even come close to a strike since I've been in IBEW.

Of course, pulling a stunt like what's going on in HI would be a LOT more dangerous here because of the climate, and the public relations ramifications would be hideous to behold afterwards. The last thing you want is a black eye due to the general public being out of service while differences are being settled.

I have a different take on unions than most of you here, and that probably is because there seems to be a completely different outlook & work ethic between AK and the rest of the country - the bullshit you hear about with the Auto Unions would never fly here and IMO that's a case of unions getting too powerful combined with shitty attitudes from the members.

We perform better than the non-union shops, and I can't tell you how many times I've gone in to fix slipshod work done by some guy in a non-union outfit who just didn't give a damn and probably didn't know any better due to zero-to-none training. But he/she definitely didn't care.

There's a big difference between something that looks beautiful & doesn't work and something that looks like hell & doesn't work - there's too many people that don't understand that simple concept and I had that drilled into me by every one of my Journeymen as an apprentice.

The good ones are going to go where the money is. That's a universal truth no matter if you're talking about Healthcare Industry or the Electrical Industry. Brand X here in AK pays their guys a third of IBEW scale with crappy benefits, and with a couple of exceptions they don't deserve even that - I've seen remote villages lose communications because some knucklehead floated fibers 3 feet out from the panel. Repair jobs like that are nice because the locals truly appreciate quality workmanship that is as solid as we can make it, and it's damn pretty to look at when it's done.

Anyway, I guess the point I'm trying to make here in my ramblings is that not all unions are bad despite the shenanigans going on in WI, HI and other places. We work our asses off and do the best job we can. When it's 30 below in the middle of a blizzard at 3 AM and the lights go out, it's an IBEW guy up on top that pole fixing the problem in Alaska.

I think that's probably true of most 'skilled' labor unions. Electricians, carpenters, plumbers, etc. When the relationship between those unions and say AFL-CIO such as electricians here in IL, problems can arise.

AK does seem different. At the job fair I was at last Monday, there was a school district from LKSD, (Lower Kuskokwim). I'm thinking of sending the application, though I think I'd have to wait a year, my daughter is getting married at the beginning of October.

While the salaries are high, the commitment is too. You literally live at the school when necessary. That's much different than the lower 48. ;)

[NightTrain]

I think that's probably true of most 'skilled' labor unions. Electricians, carpenters, plumbers, etc. When the relationship between those unions and say AFL-CIO such as electricians here in IL, problems can arise.

AK does seem different. At the job fair I was at last Monday, there was a school district from LKSD, (Lower Kuskokwim). I'm thinking of sending the application, though I think I'd have to wait a year, my daughter is getting married at the beginning of October.

While the salaries are high, the commitment is too. You literally live at the school when necessary. That's much different than the lower 48. ;)


Usually there is a "Teacher's House" provided, at least that's how it used to work. That house was modest, but it was akin to the Mansion On The Hill for the locals. Teachers out there get paid handsomely, too.

Go for it, Kath! It'd be a great adventure for you. I'll be out in Bethel doing some work here this summer. Bethel is HQ for LKSD.

[Kathianne]

Usually there is a "Teacher's House" provided, at least that's how it used to work. That house was modest, but it was akin to the Mansion On The Hill for the locals. Teachers out there get paid handsomely, too.

Go for it, Kath! It'd be a great adventure for you. I'll be out in Bethel doing some work here this summer. Bethel is HQ for LKSD.

Yep, that is the town. Yes, there is housing, then they talk about the weather in winter and reassure the applicant that the school itself has showers, laundry, and kitchen. ;) Some of the housing doesn't have running water, that might be a problem for me. LOL!

I think if I got it, I'd enjoy it. However, like I said, with the daughter getting married Oct. 2, probably wouldn't work for this year. Got to find something, but I am going to contact them.

[Psychoblues]

The relationship here in AK is healthy between the two factions, we've never even come close to a strike since I've been in IBEW.

Of course, pulling a stunt like what's going on in HI would be a LOT more dangerous here because of the climate, and the public relations ramifications would be hideous to behold afterwards. The last thing you want is a black eye due to the general public being out of service while differences are being settled.

I have a different take on unions than most of you here, and that probably is because there seems to be a completely different outlook & work ethic between AK and the rest of the country - the bullshit you hear about with the Auto Unions would never fly here and IMO that's a case of unions getting too powerful combined with shitty attitudes from the members.

We perform better than the non-union shops, and I can't tell you how many times I've gone in to fix slipshod work done by some guy in a non-union outfit who just didn't give a damn and probably didn't know any better due to zero-to-none training. But he/she definitely didn't care.

There's a big difference between something that looks beautiful & doesn't work and something that looks like hell & doesn't work - there's too many people that don't understand that simple concept and I had that drilled into me by every one of my Journeymen as an apprentice.

The good ones are going to go where the money is. That's a universal truth no matter if you're talking about Healthcare Industry or the Electrical Industry. Brand X here in AK pays their guys a third of IBEW scale with crappy benefits, and with a couple of exceptions they don't deserve even that - I've seen remote villages lose communications because some knucklehead floated fibers 3 feet out from the panel. Repair jobs like that are nice because the locals truly appreciate quality workmanship that is as solid as we can make it, and it's damn pretty to look at when it's done.

Anyway, I guess the point I'm trying to make here in my ramblings is that not all unions are bad despite the shenanigans going on in WI, HI and other places. We work our asses off and do the best job we can. When it's 30 below in the middle of a blizzard at 3 AM and the lights go out, it's an IBEW guy up on top that pole fixing the problem in Alaska.

NightTrain, this is where you and I agree 1000%. My father was a Union plumber and 2 of my brothers were Union plumbers. I have several cousins that are/were electricians/IBEW and plumbers and I still carry an International Association Of Machinists and Aerospace Workers card. We all get together, not so much as before as I don't drink anymore, but we talk about the quality of our work, the amount of work we could put out in a day and how our stories compared to those of our non-Union counterparts. Like you say, the difference is beyond credible description.

Thanks for sharing your IBEW experience with us.

Psychochoblues

[Psychoblues]

It will be interesting to see how the public empathizes with the union workers that abandoned them during a crisis. While HA is luckier than most of the US in their winter weather, it's still more than an inconvenience:

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110305_heco_strike_1300_workers_walk_off_the_job _amid_outages.html

Later in the article, Kath, it states that it was management, not labor, that had left the bargaining table and left the IBEW with little recourse. The Union says that this emergency is coincidental rather than by any plan. The contract negotiations breakdown is not a wage issue as those have already been settled. The HECO management had already hired scabs and activated managers to do the work of the striking electrical workers so that indicates to me their intention to create the havoc and atmosphere conducive to nothing but a strike to settle problems that the Union wanted to settle without the strike.

I would like to point out and agree with what NightTrain said. I have NEVER found a Union that WANTED to strike. NEVER. Management places them into positions where there is no choice but Unions NEVER want to just give up their jobs and walk picket lines. Another thing but that I don't agree with NightTrain about is the UAW. The auto industries played them like violins. Every year the companies needed to shut down to re-tool and re-design their plants. They spent years paying exorbitant unemployment insurance premiums because their shut downs caused so much unemployment. They timed everything to create strike conditions during re-hab time to prevent the ability to draw unemployment. It worked perfectly for a while. Many of the auto workers come from Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama and Tennessee. I personally know literally hundreds of them as I went to school with them, know their families and see them almost every year when they vacation back down here in the homeland. They all speak very well about the industries and the future of the industries. As is true in any assembly line work they complain about the speed of the line and how after about 20 years or age 50 whichever comes first you are just worn out. Retirement is not an option. It is a necessity. I've seen that a thousand times, too.

Psychochoblues

[NightTrain]

Do me a favor, Pyscho, and don't take my side.

[Psychoblues]

Do me a favor, Pyscho, and don't take my side.

And so the little short stubby stinky turd side of you gets angry?

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Psychochoblues

[trobinett]

Do me a favor, Pyscho, and don't take my side.

What an absolutely dick head thing to say!

[NightTrain]

What an absolutely dick head thing to say!

I know. I planned it that way. :happy0203:

[trobinett]

I know. I planned it that way. :happy0203:

Oh.:smoke: