Liberal Civility Comes to Medicare Debate

[red states rule]

Don't wait for any leaders in the Dem party to condem this ad. Yet they were asking for civility after the AZ shootings


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[sundaydriver]

Is that a Gingrich ad? :laugh:

[fj1200]

Classy ad. Easier to ignore the unsustainable facts of Medicare that way.

[Monkeybone]

maybe they should also show the people that are younger than me (26)driving up to the edge in their Escalades that are also on it.

[DragonStryk72]

Wow, that's just... that's just a really shitty ad. Isn't the whole point of these sorts of ads to try and win over the fence-riders? The people who aren't entirely convinced about either side?

Now, I would like to address one point that was in the video. It stated that over half of Medicare recipients make less than $28k a year. Um, Why are there people making almost 30k a year on Medicare? I mean, any job I've ever seen that has a salary of at least $25k has a health plan attached to it, so who are all these other people who are making that much money, that are taking Medicare, and why are they being approved?

[red states rule]

Libs must think so what if the program is going broke? That does not mean we need to reform the program




Two of the government's most popular programs for the elderly, Medicare and Social Security, will run out of money sooner than thought earlier as a slow-growing economy saps revenues, a report Friday said.

Trustees for the two funds said the Medicare trust fund is projected to exhaust its funds in 2024, not 2029 as estimated last year, and that the Social Security retirement program will run out of money in 2036, not 2037 as previously thought.

The latest projections hit in the middle of an intense debate between the Obama administration and opposition Republicans about how to rein in the nation's runaway debt, set to hit the legal limit of $14.3 trillion on Monday.

Whether the two costly entitlement programs should be on the table has been an intense subject of debate.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43023780

[Gaffer]

The video makes me think of obamacare and how they plan to take care of seniors. It's just another scare the shit out of stupid old people ad. The problem they have is most of us old people don't buy it.

[red states rule]

The video makes me think of obamacare and how they plan to take care of seniors. It's just another scare the shit out of stupid old people ad. The problem they have is most of us old people don't buy it.

I saw Frank Luntz on Fox News and he said poll after poll shows these type of ads backfire because most people find them offensive

I have yet to see anyone on the left even admit Medicare is going broke. They think all is needed is - shock - higher taxes on the "rich"

[Gaffer]

I saw Frank Luntz on Fox News and he said poll after poll shows these type of ads backfire because most people find them offensive

I have yet to see anyone on the left even admit Medicare is going broke. They think all is needed is - shock - higher taxes on the "rich"

Since I moved into my apartment a few weeks ago my TV has yet to be plugged in. I told cable to stuff it. I get all my news and entertainment from the internet. So I only see these ads on here. They don't impress me or scare me because unlike liberals I think for myself.

liberals don't grasp it that higher taxes on the rich means higher taxes on them.

[red states rule]

Since I moved into my apartment a few weeks ago my TV has yet to be plugged in. I told cable to stuff it. I get all my news and entertainment from the internet. So I only see these ads on here. They don't impress me or scare me because unlike liberals I think for myself.

liberals don't grasp it that higher taxes on the rich means higher taxes on them.

and the rich George Soros is funding this ad

Liberalism is a religion of cowards

[Gaffer]

and the rich George Soros is funding this ad

Liberalism is a religion of cowards

soros is behind absolutely everything the left does. Gee I wonder why his name doesn't come up when they talk about taxing the rich. Most of these uber rich keep their money in offshore accounts and it can't be touched. Same goes for the so called congress critters.

[sundaydriver]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHHJsXH3BiU&feature=player_detailpage#t=183s

This is how it's done. Saves a drive to the country!

[DragonStryk72]

soros is behind absolutely everything the left does. Gee I wonder why his name doesn't come up when they talk about taxing the rich. Most of these uber rich keep their money in offshore accounts and it can't be touched. Same goes for the so called congress critters.

And see, that's why I'm pro-Fair Tax. We stop punishing people for working hard and being successful, and everyone pays in, the rich, the illegals, all of them.

[red states rule]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHHJsXH3BiU&feature=player_detailpage#t=183s

This is how it's done. Saves a drive to the country!

Typical leftie. Why do you continue to ignore the fact Medicare is going broke and needs to be reformed?

Perhaps you really do not care about seniors and only care about political power for your party?

[Gaffer]

Typical leftie. Why do you continue to ignore the fact Medicare is going broke and needs to be reformed?

Perhaps you really do not care about seniors and only care about political power for your party?

He the one pushing the wheel chair in the video.

[red states rule]

He the one pushing the wheel chair in the video.

and then blames a Republican

[sundaydriver]

Typical leftie. Why do you continue to ignore the fact Medicare is going broke and needs to be reformed?

Perhaps you really do not care about seniors and only care about political power for your party?

I see you like to get up early to dredge up all the worst of the news that you can apparently for pleasure. I got up early today and took a nice walk thru the woods with the dog, walked 10 miles for the Relay for Life at the local park earning $170 bucks towards cancer research & treatment, then went to work for an hour & a half to grow some seed in my lab that will generate ~$15 mil in sales and green jobs for one hundred people or so for the next 3 months.

I guess I'm just wasting my time and will never become the patriotic super caring American that you pretend to be. :2up:

[sundaydriver]

He the one pushing the wheel chair in the video.

No, that's Richard Widmark in a great scene from a great movie.

[red states rule]

I see you like to get up early to dredge up all the worst of the news that you can apparently for pleasure. I got up early today and took a nice walk thru the woods with the dog, walked 10 miles for the Relay for Life at the local park earning $170 bucks towards cancer research & treatment, then went to work for an hour & a half to grow some seed in my lab that will generate ~$15 mil in sales and green jobs for one hundred people or so for the next 3 months.

I guess I'm just wasting my time and will never become the patriotic super caring American that you pretend to be. :2up:

and I see you are still doing what libs do best - ignore the fcts. Medicare is going broke sooner then anyone thought. How does the left respond to a valid ide to reform the program? Republicans want to kill seniors

Yes you are wsting your time here. Most people here want to have civil discussion while you want to make jokes and keep your hed stuck in the sand

Please, dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out

[sundaydriver]

and I see you are still doing what libs do best - ignore the fcts. Medicare is going broke sooner then anyone thought. How does the left respond to a valid ide to reform the program? Republicans want to kill seniors

Yes you are wsting your time here. Most people here want to have civil discussion while you want to make jokes and keep your hed stuck in the sand

Please, dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out

Just what is it that you contribute to your community or country?

[red states rule]

Just what is it that you contribute to your community or country?

So now when you have no respose to the thread topic you try to make me the topic

You remind me of a former poster here named manfrommaine. You would get along great with him. Both of you have the same lack of debate skills, and run from the truth like a track star

[sundaydriver]

So now when you have no respose to the thread topic you try to make me the topic

You remind me of a former poster here named manfrommaine. You would get along great with him. Both of you have the same lack of debate skills, and run from the truth like a track star

I didn't think you could answer that one!

[red states rule]

I didn't think you could answer that one!

No need to. 2 pages and you have yet to answer why reforming a program that is going broke is a bad idea and is the same as killing seniors

Again, I thought you were heading for the exit

[sundaydriver]

No need to. 2 pages and you have yet to answer why reforming a program that is going broke is a bad idea and is the same as killing seniors

Again, I thought you were heading for the exit

Your reading comprehension isn't the best, or wishful thinking?

[red states rule]

Your reading comprehension isn't the best, or wishful thinking?

Please point out the post number where you offered anything to counter Ryan's plan besides your usual snide comments

While you joke and laugh, Medicare is going broke and Dems are offering their usual scare tactics

Did you have trouble finding the exit SD?

[SpidermanTUba]

Classy ad. Easier to ignore the unsustainable facts of Medicare that way.

Wow. So we can't afford to take care of seniors anymore. Had no idea. How shall we dispose of them?

[DragonStryk72]

Wow. So we can't afford to take care of seniors anymore. Had no idea. How shall we dispose of them?

Okay... are you secretly a conservative trying to make libs look bad? I mean, are you even looking at what you post? Or at least what thread you're posting in? You just confirmed the OP by RSR. Do you get that? You made RSR right.

Give that a moment, let it sink in. You just posted that the only two options in the entire world are either that we agree with Medicare as is, without question or reservation, or that we want to kill seniors. That's it, you just confirmed the worst thinking of how your party feels.

Not one person on here advocated killing old people, not one. In fact, even RSR, of all people, RSR did not propose ending Medicare, only reforming a clearly broken system.

[red states rule]

Wow. So we can't afford to take care of seniors anymore. Had no idea. How shall we dispose of them?

Spoken like a true left wing tool. You, like SD, have clearly shown you do not give a damn about the seniors, about the taxpayers, and about the pending implosion of the Federal budget

What both of you DO care about is taking cheap political shots, and trying to smear the political opposition

Ryan's plan offers a solution to a massive federal program that the CBO is going broke faster then anyone thought. He gives people a choice (I thought libs supported choice or is tht only when a women wants to murder her unborn child?)

So far al you, SD, and your party leaders have offered is the usual BS that Republicans want to kill people

And these comments come from the same people who were "outraged" over Sarah Palin "crosshairs" ad and demanded an end to the over the top rhetoric

But alas, I learned early in life civility with a liberal is a one way street. The liberal can say and do anything in an attempt to further their agenda, while being offended simply by knowing the politicfal opposition will soon speak and give their opinion

[red states rule]

Ryan take Mr Gregory to school on the Medicade issue

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[sundaydriver]

Geez, I don't think anyone came come to more conclusions without any facts than you red!
My party bosses. That's a good one! I just voted last Tuesday and as always voted for a person and ideas as well as past actions. What does party have to do with Scool Board or District Judge? As far as National I prefer a balance between the 3 branches not control of all 3 by any one party.
Sure I care about Medicare, SS, and everything else but I am about as powerless as you or any single person about changing things. I vote, write my congressman, been to a couple of "town halls", but what has that really accomplished? So I do what I can on the local level like a lot of us do to fix the smaller things that we can.
Since I am a senior and have parents really senior to me, my siblings and I have had our real life introduction to the Medicare systems good & bad. Well aware of the 20% fraud rate up untill 2009 and what was instituted to combat it, how money is running out, funding problems, etc..
But enough of this cause I'm tired. As a local Lions Club member we prepared and served ~300 all you can eat sausage & pancake breakfasts this morning to raise money for our community projects. Seems to accomplish more to change things than "chest banging" on a forum. :thumb:

[red states rule]

Geez, I don't think anyone came come to more conclusions without any facts than you red!
My party bosses. That's a good one! I just voted last Tuesday and as always voted for a person and ideas as well as past actions. What does party have to do with Scool Board or District Judge? As far as National I prefer a balance between the 3 branches not control of all 3 by any one party.
Sure I care about Medicare, SS, and everything else but I am about as powerless as you or any single person about changing things. I vote, write my congressman, been to a couple of "town halls", but what has that really accomplished? So I do what I can on the local level like a lot of us do to fix the smaller things that we can.
Since I am a senior and have parents really senior to me, my siblings and I have had our real life introduction to the Medicare systems good & bad. Well aware of the 20% fraud rate up untill 2009 and what was instituted to combat it, how money is running out, funding problems, etc..
But enough of this cause I'm tired. As a local Lions Club member we prepared and served ~300 all you can eat sausage & pancake breakfasts this morning to raise money for our community projects. Seems to accomplish more to change things than "chest banging" on a forum. :thumb:

What has that really accomplished? Remember after Obama was elected how the liberal media proclaimed Reagan conservatism dead? Dems were going to run Congress for the next 40 years? America has become a left wing country?

People spoke up, joined forces, and stood up against the arrogance of power and handed Dems and Obama the worst loss at the ballot box since the 1930;'s

I laugh when Dems take about "waste, fraud, and abuse" If thhey know about it why are they waiting to stop it?

So far you have laughed about the Ryan plan - but where is the Dems/Obama plan to save Medicare and SS? I mean besides raising taxes

[sundaydriver]

What has that really accomplished? Remember after Obama was elected how the liberal media proclaimed Reagan conservatism dead? Dems were going to run Congress for the next 40 years? America has become a left wing country?

People spoke up, joined forces, and stood up against the arrogance of power and handed Dems and Obama the worst loss at the ballot box since the 1930;'s

I laugh when Dems take about "waste, fraud, and abuse" If thhey know about it why are they waiting to stop it?

So far you have laughed about the Ryan plan - but where is the Dems/Obama plan to save Medicare and SS? I mean besides raising taxes

And you call this debating? Where do you keep this Gaffer guy...on your lap? :laugh2:

[red states rule]

And you call this debating? Where do you keep this Gaffer guy...on your lap? :laugh2:

I am sorry if reminding you what speaking out can accomplish SD? I understand being a liberal how watching your guy Obama tank so much and so quickly is something you would rather not dicsuss

It is clear you do not want to dicsuss solutions to the lefts two massive entitlement programs, They want to ignore that their massive ripoff of the public is finally running out of money and is ready to go broke




The Social Security and Medicare Board of Trustees issued a report giving the grim news that both programs will go broke five years earlier than previously projected. Medicare will be tapped out by 2024 and Social Security by 2036. In fiscal year 2010, Social Security had a $49 billion dollar deficit, the first deficit since 1983, and is expected to have at least a $46 billion dollar deficit in the current 2011 fiscal year. They predict that the deficits will decline to about $20 billion annually, should the economy rebound. But by 2014, the deficits will rise again, recovery or no recovery, due to the increase in the numbers of new beneficiaries. Through 2022, these deficits will have to be made up for by redeeming trust fund assets with the Treasury, but after 2022, even that source will dry up.

Medicare is in even worse shape. Medicare has been running deficits already since 2008. This year the program will have a shortfall of about $48 billion dollars. Now, the Obama administration likes to tell us that once their Affordable Health Care Act is fully implemented, that Medicare costs will decline by as much as 30% of projected estimates. Given that not one single budgetary prediction from the Obama administration has yet to be true, such as how the Stimulus program of 2009 would prevent unemployment from exceeding 8%, I would call such optimism dubious at best.

http://www.rightpundits.com/?p=8666




It is clear Dems would rather attack Ryan then attack the problem of the programs going bust.

[red states rule]

BTW SD, hell you even have "conservatives" at PBS doing your dirty work for you





When PBS and NPR "conservative" commentator David Brooks appears on both networks on Fridays, he often repeats his lines. On Friday, on both networks, he repeated his trashing of Newt Gingrich as unqualified to run a 7-Eleven. But he also insisted that conservative talk-radio hosts (which ones?) don't want to touch Medicare and hate the Paul Ryan budget. He named no names. Here's how it came out on the PBS NewsHour:

I happen to think one of the important things Ryan did was, he said, if we're going to be serious, we have to be serious about entitlements. We can't just be for expanding Medicare coverage forever. But there are people in the party on talk radio and also people like Gingrich who have said, we should never, never touch this.

Here's how Brooks said in on NPR's All Things Considered:

This is actually a real debate on the Republican Party. A lot of people are saying that politically it's insane to do what Ryan's doing. I happen to think it's semi-insane but also semi-necessary. But Gingrich didn't come out of nowhere. There's a large talk radio segment saying we should never cut Medicare, we should never cut Medicare, and he was really speaking for that. It's got to be heard in the Republican Party.

That sounds more like his NPR partner, liberal Washington Post columnist E.J. Dionne, than it sounds like conservative talk radio. Brooks sounded his usual centrist tones on NPR when they discussed Sen. Tom Coburn dropping out of the "Gang of Six" senate budget negotiators: "You know, we have to raise taxes, we have to cut Medicare - or at least tax revenues - and this Gang of Six was the best way to do that. Now, it's hopeless. There's a possibility we'll have a complete meltdown with the debt ceiling this summer. "

Read more: http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2011/05/22/earth-david-brooks-where-conservative-talk-radio-do-they-oppose-any-chan#ixzz1N7HTyfeL

[Gaffer]

And you call this debating? Where do you keep this Gaffer guy...on your lap? :laugh2:

I'm still waiting for you to debate someone. All I have seen from you is name calling, insinuations and strawmen. What is the liberal plan for medicare? None of your new lords and ladies of the liberal elite seem to be able to answer the question, maybe you can. Or maybe you just haven't been given the talking points yet.

[red states rule]

I'm still waiting for you to debate someone. All I have seen from you is name calling, insinuations and strawmen. What is the liberal plan for medicare? None of your new lords and ladies of the liberal elite seem to be able to answer the question, maybe you can. Or maybe you just haven't been given the talking points yet.

SD is letting the liberal media dohis talking on Ryan's plan





On Friday’s Political Capital show on Bloomberg News, as host Al Hunt turned the discussion to Newt Gingrich’s presidential campaign, Bloomberg’s Margaret Carlson attacked Republican Congressman Paul Ryan’s plan for Medicare reform as she voiced supposed agreement with Gingrich that "it is right-wing social engineering to destroy Medicare as we know it."

She then went on to suggest that Gingrich plays "skinhead politics."

Read more: http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2011/05/22/margaret-carlson-gingrich-plays-skinhead-politics-paul-ryan-would-des#ixzz1N7X56GeV

[fj1200]

Wow. So we can't afford to take care of seniors anymore. Had no idea. How shall we dispose of them?

Who said that? We certainly can't afford to take care of them in the ways that we've been taking care of them so far but that doesn't mean that they can't be taken care of. In fact the new proposals are not an exercise in disposing of them they are a way to let them take care of themselves; just because a government program doesn't exist doesn't mean that the goals are not achieved. That is something many who believe in ever expanding programs are not in a position to admit; it destroys the very premise from which they are working.

[fj1200]

Since I am a senior and have parents really senior to me, my siblings and I have had our real life introduction to the Medicare systems good & bad. Well aware of the 20% fraud rate up untill 2009 and what was instituted to combat it, how money is running out, funding problems, etc.

It's always best to be one of the first recipients of any government program; get in before the failures present themselves and unsustainability reigns.

[red states rule]

Who said that? We certainly can't afford to take care of them in the ways that we've been taking care of them so far but that doesn't mean that they can't be taken care of. In fact the new proposals are not an exercise in disposing of them they are a way to let them take care of themselves; just because a government program doesn't exist doesn't mean that the goals are not achieved. That is something many who believe in ever expanding programs are not in a position to admit; it destroys the very premise from which they are working.

and what have the Dems proposed besides their usual scare tacitcs and raising taxes?

[red states rule]

It's always best to be one of the first recipients of any government program; get in before the failures present themselves and unsustainability reigns.

SD got his share out before the roof fell in so I guess he does not care what happens now

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[red states rule]

Wasn't Chris Matthwews one of the liberal medias biggest attackers of Gov Palin over her "death panel" comment?

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[sundaydriver]

Wow, an awful lot of "bait" thrown out while I was gone. Unfortunately your fishing with a too short a line as I have traveled far and wide since I last checked in here.

As usual thanks for the false assumptions, trying to put your words into someone else's mouth to make yourself right, and for the thoughts in general.

I don't see where I have laughed at Ryan's plan as you like to falsely point out, nor do I have lords & ladies, or people that do my talking for me. I do like a lot of Ryan's thinking but not so much on the Medicare issue. I strongly disagree with the vouchers going to private insurers which does give pricing options but will see less coverage yearly and make for a larger "prescription doughnut" than presently exists. I think this plan just would force seniors to try to fix the system as a group themselves down the road. The last time private managed care was tried the cost was 120% of Medicares cost.

We pay more than any industrial country in the world by far for health care. More than "single payer" plan countries. More than socialized medicine countries. I believe it is past the time to start paying for quality rather than volume, repair the prescription plan D that has let drug costs skyrocket, that is what generic drugs are for. As for the rest of it I don't have all the answers as some do. Maybe it's time to adopt some of the policies that do work in other countries instead of plodding along with what we have.

By the way, I am not yet collecting on "entitlements". In two years I will be after paying into them for 43 years for the generations ahead of me. Although I have been preparing for retirment and my finances are assured, SS will still come in handy for traveling money and home upkeep. Medicare I will count on as well as my other insurance policys. So please keep paying those taxes.

[red states rule]

Wow, an awful lot of "bait" thrown out while I was gone. Unfortunately your fishing with a too short a line as I have traveled far and wide since I last checked in here.

As usual thanks for the false assumptions, trying to put your words into someone else's mouth to make yourself right, and for the thoughts in general.

I don't see where I have laughed at Ryan's plan as you like to falsely point out, nor do I have lords & ladies, or people that do my talking for me. I do like a lot of Ryan's thinking but not so much on the Medicare issue. I strongly disagree with the vouchers going to private insurers which does give pricing options but will see less coverage yearly and make for a larger "prescription doughnut" than presently exists. I think this plan just would force seniors to try to fix the system as a group themselves down the road. The last time private managed care was tried the cost was 120% of Medicares cost.

We pay more than any industrial country in the world by far for health care. More than "single payer" plan countries. More than socialized medicine countries. I believe it is past the time to start paying for quality rather than volume, repair the prescription plan D that has let drug costs skyrocket, that is what generic drugs are for. As for the rest of it I don't have all the answers as some do. Maybe it's time to adopt some of the policies that do work in other countries instead of plodding along with what we have.

By the way, I am not yet collecting on "entitlements". In two years I will be after paying into them for 43 years for the generations ahead of me. Although I have been preparing for retirment and my finances are assured, SS will still come in handy for traveling money and home upkeep. Medicare I will count on as well as my other insurance policys. So please keep paying those taxes.

No "bait" just the facts SD. Like Obama and the Dems you ignore the fact the current system is going to implode. We can continue to pay the taxes but it is like flushing the money down the drain

Where is the Dems plan to counter Ryan's? What have they offered besides doing nothing? Your post imply you simply want more government spending but you fail to tell us where the money will come from

Even if you tax the "rich" at a 100% tax rate you still will not take in the money needed to cover the costs

As far as your "single payer system" look at the latest news from the UK and how their government run system is doing. Is that what you want to bring to America?




Doctors are blaming financial pressures on the NHS for an increase in the number of patients who are not being treated within the 18 weeks that the government recommends.

New NHS performance data reveal that the number of people in England who are being forced to wait more than 18 weeks has risen by 26% in the last year, while the number who had to wait longer than six months has shot up by 43%.

In March this year, 34,639 people, or 11% of the total, waited more than that time to receive inpatient treatment, compared with 27,534, or 8.3%, in March 2010 – an increase of 26% – Department of Health statistics show.

Similarly, in March this year some 11,243 patients who underwent treatment had waited for more than six months, compared with 7,841 in the same month in 2010 – a 43% rise.

Despite rising demand for healthcare caused by the increasingly elderly population and growing numbers of people with long-term conditions, the NHS treated 16,201 fewer people as inpatients in March 2011 compared to March 2010, the latest Referral To Treatment data disclose.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/may/19/nhs-hospital-waiting-times-longer

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/may/19/nhs-hospital-waiting-times-longer

[fj1200]

As usual thanks for the false assumptions, now I will make my own false assumptions...

Fixed for truth.

[red states rule]

But remember, Dems are saying there is no problem with SS and Medicare. They are the ones who want keep the program as is

But the real story is what the liberal media and Dems are ignoring





Chuck Blahous and Robert Reischauer, the two independent trustees of the Social Security and Medicare Trust Fund, had a sober warning Friday: act quickly or the nation's two most popular entitlements are in serious danger.

“The earlier we act to deal with these problems, the better off we're gonna be, certainly better off the vulnerable populations are gonna be,” said Blahous, referring to low-income seniors and those already receiving benefits.

The Medicare hospital trust fund will be unable to pay promised benefits in 2024, five years earlier than previously thought.

“The fact that we are now looking at the future that involves nothing but years in which the program costs more than the income flowing into it is a new development,” Reischauer says.

Additionally, the Social Security trust fund will be exhausted in 2036 and under current law, seniors will face a 23 percent across-the-board cut in benefits. If lawmakers wait until then, the magnitude of the problem is exponentially bigger.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/10/social-security-and-medicare-need-reform-now-say-trustees/#ixzz1OwzKaJo5

[red states rule]

Wow, an awful lot of "bait" thrown out while I was gone. Unfortunately your fishing with a too short a line as I have traveled far and wide since I last checked in here.

As usual thanks for the false assumptions, trying to put your words into someone else's mouth to make yourself right, and for the thoughts in general.

I don't see where I have laughed at Ryan's plan as you like to falsely point out, nor do I have lords & ladies, or people that do my talking for me. I do like a lot of Ryan's thinking but not so much on the Medicare issue. I strongly disagree with the vouchers going to private insurers which does give pricing options but will see less coverage yearly and make for a larger "prescription doughnut" than presently exists. I think this plan just would force seniors to try to fix the system as a group themselves down the road. The last time private managed care was tried the cost was 120% of Medicares cost.

We pay more than any industrial country in the world by far for health care. More than "single payer" plan countries. More than socialized medicine countries. I believe it is past the time to start paying for quality rather than volume, repair the prescription plan D that has let drug costs skyrocket, that is what generic drugs are for. As for the rest of it I don't have all the answers as some do. Maybe it's time to adopt some of the policies that do work in other countries instead of plodding along with what we have.

By the way, I am not yet collecting on "entitlements". In two years I will be after paying into them for 43 years for the generations ahead of me. Although I have been preparing for retirment and my finances are assured, SS will still come in handy for traveling money and home upkeep. Medicare I will count on as well as my other insurance policys. So please keep paying those taxes.

Here is another example of how well government run healthcare is working




The ultimate NHS indignity: Body of hospital patient left to die in corridor is ignored for hours... before staff simply drag him away

Nurses casually stepped over a patient as he lay dying on a hospital floor.

Peter Thompson, 41, was left in a corridor for ten hours before someone noticed he had passed away.

In a final act of indignity, hospital auxiliaries pulled his lifeless body across the floor in a manner his family described as like ‘dragging a dead animal’.

The scenes which shame the NHS were all captured on CCTV. Staff thought Mr Thompson was merely drunk and left him to ‘sleep it off’.

Yesterday a coroner condemned the death as ‘wholly preventable’.

An inquest heard that the father-of-one, who had consumed a cocktail of drink and drugs, could have been saved had he received emergency treatment.

The hospital’s accident and emergency department was just 200 yards away.

Last night it emerged that three nurses face a disciplinary inquiry over their inaction.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2000824/NHS-indignity-Peter-Thompsons-body-ignored-hours-corridor-Edale-House-unit.html#ixzz1OxFL0tvo

[sundaydriver]

Here is another example of how well government run healthcare is working


The ultimate NHS indignity: Body of hospital patient left to die in corridor is ignored for hours... before staff simply drag him away

Nurses casually stepped over a patient as he lay dying on a hospital floor.

Peter Thompson, 41, was left in a corridor for ten hours before someone noticed he had passed away.

In a final act of indignity, hospital auxiliaries pulled his lifeless body across the floor in a manner his family described as like ‘dragging a dead animal’.

The scenes which shame the NHS were all captured on CCTV. Staff thought Mr Thompson was merely drunk and left him to ‘sleep it off’.

Yesterday a coroner condemned the death as ‘wholly preventable’.

An inquest heard that the father-of-one, who had consumed a cocktail of drink and drugs, could have been saved had he received emergency treatment.

The hospital’s accident and emergency department was just 200 yards away.

Last night it emerged that three nurses face a disciplinary inquiry over their inaction.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1OxFL0tvo

Red you can always be trusted to find & use the worse case scenario's to validate your views.

I am full agreement with you about the UK health care system though. Apparently so are many others due to it's ranking of 20Th or thereabouts amongst industrial countries although such as this case of neglect as you posted can be and are found every where.

As for me expecting us to just throw more money at our Medicare problem are also wrong. We already spend 30% to 50% more than some other countries with health care quality equal to our own.

Recently while working in the Netherlands my Dutch colleges started talking about an ailing coworker who was convalescing at home so I asked some questions about how their system works.

It turns out that they have a private health care system that they must buy insurance for at ~$140 a month, people are not effected by pre existing health issues, hospitals are non profit although some new ones are for profit, and those that cannot afford all or part of the insurance premiums are subsidized by taxes.

The people seem pretty happy with their system and it is ranked as the best in Europe and equal to our quality even with some flaws. Ohh my Gosh...Obama Care!

So I beleive it is pudent to look and see what others have that is good as well as seeing what isn't working instead of just looking at the worst and saying; see it dosn't work!

[red states rule]

The ultimate NHS indignity: Body of hospital patient left to die in corridor is ignored for hours... before staff simply drag him away

Nurses casually stepped over a patient as he lay dying on a hospital floor.

Peter Thompson, 41, was left in a corridor for ten hours before someone noticed he had passed away.

In a final act of indignity, hospital auxiliaries pulled his lifeless body across the floor in a manner his family described as like ‘dragging a dead animal’.

The scenes which shame the NHS were all captured on CCTV. Staff thought Mr Thompson was merely drunk and left him to ‘sleep it off’.

Yesterday a coroner condemned the death as ‘wholly preventable’.

An inquest heard that the father-of-one, who had consumed a cocktail of drink and drugs, could have been saved had he received emergency treatment.

The hospital’s accident and emergency department was just 200 yards away.

Last night it emerged that three nurses face a disciplinary inquiry over their inaction.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1OxFL0tvo

Red you can always be trusted to find & use the worse case scenario's to validate your views.

I am full agreement with you about the UK health care system though. Apparently so are many others due to it's ranking of 20Th or thereabouts amongst industrial countries although such as this case of neglect as you posted can be and are found every where.

As for me expecting us to just throw more money at our Medicare problem are also wrong. We already spend 30% to 50% more than some other countries with health care quality equal to our own.

Recently while working in the Netherlands my Dutch colleges started talking about an ailing coworker who was convalescing at home so I asked some questions about how their system works.

It turns out that they have a private health care system that they must buy insurance for at ~$140 a month, people are not effected by pre existing health issues, hospitals are non profit although some new ones are for profit, and those that cannot afford all or part of the insurance premiums are subsidized by taxes.

The people seem pretty happy with their system and it is ranked as the best in Europe and equal to our quality even with some flaws. Ohh my Gosh...Obama Care!

So I beleive it is pudent to look and see what others have that is good as well as seeing what isn't working instead of just looking at the worst and saying; see it dosn't work!

Dems and the liberal media are always telling us how great the UK's health system is. After all it is a single payer and government run - so it HAS to be great

If our healthcare system is so bad SD why the hell do so many come here for treatment? Look at Canada - they are talking baout allowing private insurance since they are going broke as well

AQnd we all know how efficient government is SD. The government can run the nations healthcare system much better then the private sector. Right? Yes Obama said he would transform America and damn that is one promise he is keeping

[sundaydriver]

Dems and the liberal media are always telling us how great the UK's health system is. After all it is a single payer and government run - so it HAS to be great

If our healthcare system is so bad SD why the hell do so many come here for treatment? Look at Canada - they are talking baout allowing private insurance since they are going broke as well

AQnd we all know how efficient government is SD. The government can run the nations healthcare system much better then the private sector. Right? Yes Obama said he would transform America and damn that is one promise he is keeping

Whatever health care system you want, but get some quick because you are DEAF, DUMD, AND BLIND!

[red states rule]

Whatever health care system you want, but get some quick because you are DEAF, DUMD, AND BLIND!

Once again, the civil liberal can't counter the facts so he goes to the usual fall back plan - personal attacks

OK SD I accept your unconditional surrender.

Dismissed

[sundaydriver]

Once again, the civil liberal can't counter the facts so he goes to the usual fall back plan - personal attacks

OK SD I accept your unconditional surrender.

Dismissed

33k posts and you still offer no better options, no enlightenment, or debate. It is obvious who the quitter is. :laugh2:

[red states rule]

33k posts and you still offer no better options, no enlightenment, or debate. It is obvious who the quitter is. :laugh2:

I have given you plenty but like Virgil you seem to have a phobia about a back and forth exchange of the facts

A majority want Obamacare repleaed, and Dems are doing zip on trying to keep Medicare and SS from going broke

The REAL national debt is about $60 TRILLION and yet libs could not care less. they are more interested in keeping their politcal power and so far you have offered NO solutions - only the usual snarky replies libs are known for

[sundaydriver]

I have given you plenty but like Virgil you seem to have a phobia about a back and forth exchange of the facts

A majority want Obamacare repleaed, and Dems are doing zip on trying to keep Medicare and SS from going broke

The REAL national debt is about $60 TRILLION and yet libs could not care less. they are more interested in keeping their politcal power and so far you have offered NO solutions - only the usual snarky replies libs are known for

Here you go with more baseless assumptions again. All you do is twist what dosn't agree with your narrow viewpoints and try to turn it on the poster and then whine when you get pushback!

Please explain what YOU think can be done on Medicare rather than "copy & paste" someone else's writing.

Ohh, I can handle SNARKY. The only thing about it that I don't like is the type of person that throws it out but can't take it themselves!