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Little-Acorn
07-08-2011, 02:09 PM
I was fiddling with Excel and playing with charts today (OK, so I'm a geek, so sue me! :-p )

And I found I could get a whole bunch of numbers from the U.S. Govt website http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np . You can plug in any two dates, and it will tell you the official U.S. Govenment dollar amount for the National Debt, for every weekday from the one date to the other.

It fluctuates day to day, obviously. Almost every day, the Fed Govt borrows a lot of money by issuing new bonds. Then the next day, it uses that money to pay off last month's (or last year's) bonds. So the daily total-debt rate bounces up and down every day.

But it's the long-term trends that are interesting.

First I made a chart for the National Debt from the beginning of George W. Bush's administration, to today. As it shows, Bush spent like a drunken sailor, almost from the beginning of his admin. Then Obama got elected, with Dem majorities in both Houses, and started a spending spree that put Bush to shame. Here's the chart, from pure government figures:

http://www.Little-Acorn.com/pics/NatlDebtDaily02Jan2001-06Jul2011.jpg

.

The big bump just to the right of center, was the "stimulus", where we borrowed an extra $trillion and blew it, to no apparent effect.

But something interesting seems to be happening at the upper right corner. Let's look at a chart of just the last six months (Jan 1, 2011 to today):

http://www.Little-Acorn.com/pics/NatlDebtDaily03Jan2011-06Jul2011.jpg

You can see the bouncing up and down from day to day as I mentioned. But what's happening in the upper right portion, from about mid-May till today?

Now THAT'S a debt ceiling!

This chart says that, for about the last two months, WE HAVE HAD A BALANCED BUDGET.

An even closer look, from May 1 through today:

http://www.Little-Acorn.com/pics/NatlDebtDaily02May2011-06Jul2011.jpg

This has not happened in my lifetime. For nearly two months, the U.S. Government has not spent any more than it has taken in.

In fact, we have actually been PAYING OFF PART OF THE TOTAL NATIONAL DEBT, slowly but steadily, for that period!

Again, this is something that has not happened in most of our lifetimes.

What a difference an election makes, eh?

Of course, this is not for an entire one-year period. It is for slightly less than two months, and the Natl Debt WAS rising before then. So we have a long way to go before having something that we can really point to.

But... if Democrats had not lost their majority in the House, and lost their filibuster-proof majority in the Senate (when only 1/3 of it was up for election!) in 2010... does anyone think that this sudden flattening out of the Natl Debt, and even its very slight DECREASE, would ever have happened? Or would Congress have gone on merrily hiking the Debt Limit, and spending like there was no tomorrow?

Republicans, as I pointed out, spent like drunken sailors from 2001-2008. But now it's starting to look like they just might have "got religion", especially after seeing what happened in 2010 to Democrats that spent even more.

Those Republicans now have their principle campaign issue for the 2012 election. They can hold up charts similar to these, point to the flat area (which hopefully will be much longer by then) and say, "Do you want more of this? Then vote for us." And they can also point to the super-steep area that came before, and say, "Or do you prefer this? If you do, then vote for the Democrats that gave it to you."

Gaffer
07-08-2011, 04:10 PM
Fascinating stuff. And your not even a high paid govt official. Or a media pundit. But this might all be too complicated for those in elected office.

Little-Acorn
07-19-2011, 02:03 PM
http://www.little-acorn.com/pics/NatlDebtDaily16May2011-15July2011.jpg

Unprecedented.

Course, the actual decrease in the Natl Debt, is a tiny fraction of 1% of its total amount. But it hasn't gone up in two months!!!

How much of that is due to the govt stopping payments into various Federal pension funds, etc., that they intend to pay fully once the debt ceiling gets raised?

And the $64,000 question: Will Barack Obama now run for re-election in 2012, on the theme "I balanced the budget!" ?

Little-Acorn
07-28-2011, 12:26 PM
http://www.little-acorn.com/pics/NatlDebtDaily_16May2011_27July2011.jpg

red states rule
07-28-2011, 04:29 PM
and libs still want to keeping spending, keep runing up the balance on the nations credit card, and how dare anyone who wants to stop them.

The civility is now flowing like a river from the Dems





At what point did Democrats authorize their entire party leadership to unleash shark-jumpingly insane (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2011/07/28/democrats_adult_debt_rhetoric_a_brief_retrospectiv e) rhetoric upon the debt ceiling debate? Among the comments we've heard over the last 24 hours: An allegation that the GOP is trying to establish a "dictatorship (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2011/07/28/democrats_adult_debt_rhetoric_a_brief_retrospectiv e)" in America, a remark that Republicans want to shoot the president (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIRwsrGPu7k&feature=player_embedded), an assurance that Democrats are trying to "save life on this planet (http://twitter.com/#!/ChadPergram/statuses/96606972421488640)" by stopping Boehner's plan, and now this (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/07/obama-aides-boehner-bill-threatens-christmas/1):

The Obama White House is now casting House Speaker John Boehner's proposed debt ceiling plan as a Grinch that could steal Christmas. Spokesman Jay Carney and other aides said Boehner's short-term extension of the $14.3 trillion debt ceiling sets up a replay of the ongoing political fight in December, the middle of the holiday shopping season.
The Boehner plan would require "all of us to go through this again before the end of the year, in the most important economic season in the country," Carney said. "At a time when people don't want to worry about whether or not their interest rates are going to go up, their <NOBR>mortgage payments (http://www.debatepolicy.com/#)</NOBR> and their car payments and their <NOBR>student loan (http://www.debatepolicy.com/#)</NOBR> bills, and their credit card payments, especially as they're buying gifts for the holidays."


http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2011/07/28/new_democrat_talking_point_boehners_plan_steals_ch ristmas,_or_something!

red states rule
07-28-2011, 04:34 PM
Fascinating stuff. And your not even a high paid govt official. Or a media pundit. But this might all be too complicated for those in elected office.


http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/mrz072811dAPR20110728014519.jpg

Trigg
07-28-2011, 05:56 PM
ok, so I'm confused. Here is the national debt

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

still chugging right along

Acorn shows that it has stopped rising??????

fj1200
07-28-2011, 06:12 PM
ok, so I'm confused. Here is the national debt

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

still chugging right along

Acorn shows that it has stopped rising??????

I think Treasury is just moving money around to keep us below the limit. Some temporary tricks that will have to be paid for.

Dilloduck
07-28-2011, 07:34 PM
sorta like the Fed making money out of thin air and charging us for it.

logroller
07-29-2011, 12:48 AM
I think Treasury is just moving money around to keep us below the limit. Some temporary tricks that will have to be paid for.

A shill game you say, most likely. Also not all debts are subject to the debt limit, http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/govt.htm

It appears the debt reduction reflects changes in "intragovernmental holdings". Not quite sure exactly what that includes, but it appears to be securities exchanged through FFB (among others) to finance other govt agencies (post office, DoD, Dept of Energy, education and many other smaller depts).

http://www.treasury.gov/ffb/press_releases/2011/06-2011.shtml

I can't find much detail of activity, beyond the treasury's breakdown here: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

Curious if anybody knows where to find the info.

logroller
07-29-2011, 01:01 AM
Didn't we have a balanced budget from 98-01? Yet, the public debt still went up. How exactly does that work?

red states rule
07-29-2011, 03:00 AM
In 2006, the liberal media was worried about raising the debt lmit and told the folks what their share of the debt is

Here is one example






BRIAN WILLIAMS: And one more note on all this from Capitol Hill in Washington tonight where the Senate agreed to let the <NOBR>federal government (http://www.debatepolicy.com/#)</NOBR> borrow another $781 billion, and the House then promptly passed $91 billion in new spending for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and for hurricane relief. The 52-to-48 vote in the Senate on that debt was along party lines, with three Republicans joining all the Democrats in opposing the bill that raised the ceiling on our national debt to nearly $9 trillion. That level, by the way, that level of debt, represents $30,000 for every man, woman and child in the United States.


Read more: http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/ken-shepherd/2011/07/28/flashback-march-2006-debt-ceiling-hike-nbc-cbs-noted-30000person-price#ixzz1TTlbbbzH






Has anyone seen Brian telling us what the updated number is, and would be, if Obama gets his way?

fj1200
07-29-2011, 08:02 AM
Didn't we have a balanced budget from 98-01? Yet, the public debt still went up. How exactly does that work?

The budget was only in surplus when accounting for the SS Trust Fund contributions. I think public debt went down while intergovernmental debt went up.

logroller
07-29-2011, 12:03 PM
The budget was only in surplus when accounting for the SS Trust Fund contributions. I think public debt went down while intergovernmental debt went up.

It sounds like Bear Stearns is doing our accounting now! I wonder how many investors I'd get into a hedge fund for the US National Debt. :beer:

red states rule
08-01-2011, 03:34 PM
Here is what our debt looks like

http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/177370.jpg