Religious Fanaticism: Adolph Hitler

[Wind Song]

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)


How can people of faith help the fanatics in their ranks? Discuss. How could Hitler have been stopped sooner?



Why did the 19 people mostly of Saudi Arabian origin sacrifice their own lives for the purpose of killing thousands of innocent people on September 11?

Answer: They were fanatics.

[KarlMarx]

First, Hitler was a liar and a good one. If you believe that Hitler did the things he did because he was being a Christian then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. Second, Hitler was a master at manipulating the public. He often invoked religion in order to sway people to his way of thinking.

His close circle of followers were pagans. Rudolph Hess, his deputy, was involved in the occult. Heinrich Himmler the head of the SS, which was responsible for the Holocaust, was also a pagan. Contrary to popular belief, The "SS" insigna that SS officers wore on their uniforms were not two "S"s but runes. Himmler believed that the runes carried some sort of mystical power. The SS held pagan rituals as part of their iniitiation rites. The swastika, the symbol of the Nazis, was originally a pagan symbol.

I can also tell you that more atrocities were suffered by innocents at the hands of non-religious people, e.g. Communists, than at the hands of religious fanatics. One only has to look at the number of deaths inflicted on the masses because of the Soviets and by Mao Tse Tung and his followers.

[Wind Song]

I don't believe any such thing.

[KarlMarx]

I don't believe any such thing.
If you don't believe it, then what was the point of starting the thread?

[Gaffer]

Why did the 19 people mostly of Saudi Arabian origin sacrifice their own lives for the purpose of killing thousands of innocent people on September 11?

Answer: They were fanatics.

Shall we compare fanaticism. Let's start with christian fanatics. They tend to be judgmental and pray a lot and want the lord to rein down death and destruction on the non-believers. They look down their noses and dream of the day they can sit in heaven and look down in hell on all those that don't believe as they do. The real serious ones will preach to you incessantly.

Now muslim fanatics. They are judgmental and believe they are the executioner of their gods will. They will kill and maim at the slightest affront, even to the point of killing themselves. They don't preach, they threaten.

Now we can look at Bushido and emperor worship as practiced in Japan. It's similar to islam in that dying for the emperor was a free ticket to heaven.

We can go back to the 1800's and the Thugs of India which was a combination of muslim and hindu worshiping kali. They believed you had to commit murder to get into heaven. Strangulation was the preferred method.

Christian fanatics don't worry me at all. They are annoying but harmless. It's the other fanatics you need to be concerned about.

[gabosaurus]

Christian fanatics don't worry me at all. They are annoying but harmless. It's the other fanatics you need to be concerned about.

Those who have come into contact with Andrea Yates, David Korresh and Timothy McVeigh might disagree with you.

[revelarts]

Wind Song, sooo those extremist Christians want to kill the Jews, gays and cripples. Like the christian leader Hitler. And start eugenics programs on other people to. you'll clue me in I'm sure.
So what should we do about those xtremist Christians Wind Song?
You've got me worried. Jesus should have been stopped from coming back from the dead. Christianity is so evil. It's amazing ANYONE is still alive in this country. There's a Church on almost every corner in some cities. Every president has been a Christian, that's why the U.S. is so evil. Stalin was a Christian, Mao was Christian. I think the earthquake in Haiti said it was a Christian.

Wind Song how do we to Fix this? the Bible is narrow book of no gay sex, hate, rape and Genocide ONLY EVER. That's all it means, If it means Anything. JT agrees.
It's the cause of all the problems in the world.

I mean, Should we ban it? or what? How can we get these Xtremist in LINE?
Do we need to gently convert them to New Age thinking? Shun them. Take their children so they don't breed. Put gold stars on the clothes.

Seriously What's your final solution to this horrible Christian problem you keep talking about?

[darin]

Fanaticism is a great thing and has no impact on why people do stupid shit. I'm a football fanatic, yet nobody I've read about ever killed anyone because of the travesty that was Superbowl XL.

[Gunny]

Those who have come into contact with Andrea Yates, David Korresh and Timothy McVeigh might disagree with you.

Want to try naming someone who was actually Christian practicing Christianity instead of just grabbing up 3 names of people who claimed they were doing so?

You claim to be intelligent. The truth belies your claim.


Fanaticism is a great thing and has no impact on why people do stupid shit. I'm a football fanatic, yet nobody I've read about ever killed anyone because of the travesty that was Superbowl XL.

The better team won that game. I can come up with a quick list of far worse travesties in pro football. New England's playoff wins in the 2001 season come to mind right off the bat.

:gs:

[KarlMarx]

Those who have come into contact with Andrea Yates, David Korresh and Timothy McVeigh might disagree with you.

People like this really kill me. Christian fanatics? Somebody bombs an abortion clinic and you're ready to paint with a broad brush. How about people like Ted Kaczynski, the Uni-Bomber? There was a left wing terrorist for you. Or how about the Environmentalist and Animal Rights whackos that have bombed building, damaged property, and so on? Let's not forget that 32 million plus unborn children also have been wiped out and it was considered their mothers' right to choose.


Fanaticism is a great thing and has no impact on why people do stupid shit. I'm a football fanatic, yet nobody I've read about ever killed anyone because of the travesty that was Superbowl XL.
Yes, but baseball fanatics have hurt and killed ! So by the liberals' logic we should ban baseball.

[Gunny]

Yes, but baseball fanatics have hurt and killed ! So by the liberals' logic we should ban baseball.

Ban those lawn darts! Oh wait ....

[darin]

The better team won that game. I can come up with a quick list of far worse travesties in pro football. New England's playoff wins in the 2001 season come to mind right off the bat.

:gs:

Better how? (sigh). NFL Top 10 Botched Calls of all time: #8 Super Bowl XL. You can google it. So, sure, there may be 7 worse botched calls in the history of the league, but no Championship Game in the history of ANY recorded organized sports was a bigger goat-screw than the "officiating" of that game.

;)

[Gunny]

Better how? (sigh). NFL Top 10 Botched Calls of all time: #8 Super Bowl XL. You can google it. So, sure, there may be 7 worse botched calls in the history of the league, but no Championship Game in the history of ANY recorded organized sports was a bigger goat-screw than the "officiating" of that game.

;)

I disagree. For one, I've noticed any " ... of All Time" list always gets younger and younger. Older people die off, and or the younger ones don't know their history. It comes down the same as one of those "Could the 1966 Packers beat the 1976 Steelers?" kind of threads.

The biggest goat screw in officiating history is a matter of conjecture. I'd say the no-call in the Ice Bowl where Forrest Gregg left early and Starr went behind him into the end zone to screw Dallas out of the NFL Championship was.

Or the officials carrying the Patriots through 2 playoff games in 2001.

Or you could just go with the fact there are calls and no calls in every game, and some people only see them one-sided.

[darin]

Did you watch the game? Did you read the Ref's comments last year, admitting his incompetence during those four quarters? (sigh)...be impartial here - the game was chock-full of TERRIBLE and game-changing calls.

[Abbey Marie]

Yes, Jesus & Hitler, can barely tell them apart. :rolleyes:

[revelarts]

Funny thing about Jesus he was A Jew. Peter was Jew, John, um all the disiples Jews. Paul a Jew. Moses may have been a Jew I understand.

Bible talks about God Loving Jews kinda hard for a person to say they're a GOOD christain and Hate Jews. Kinda hard for Christains to say they HATE anyone with Jesus and all that LOVE your Enemy stuff. But many who claimed to be Christan have so.

Wind Song the fact is Hilter was cult leader who mixed various occultisms, christianity, science and state craft themes into witches brew.


<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vO3RpYEs0hI?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" height="390" width="640"></object>

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ksnXDjx50pc?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" height="390" width="640"></object>


<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px;">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6QdNm5RQeWo?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" height="390" width="640">


At the 8:45 mark in this last one you see Germany School Children being led to sing a lil hymn to Hitler.

</object>"Adolf Hitler is our savior our hero.
He's the noblest being in the whole wide world.
For Hitler we live.
For Hitler we die
Hitler is our Lord.<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px">"


Not excatly what i learned in Sunday school but you can Insist Hitler was Christian if it makes you feel better.
</object>

[Wind Song]

If you don't believe it, then what was the point of starting the thread?

I'm interested in what makes people fanatics, and where do you draw the line?

Hitler obviously was a fanatic. The genocide of six million Jews proves it. I didn't know he justified his prejudice of the Jews with bible passages. It got me to thinking about the whole issue of fanaticism and the role religion plays in it. Hitler considered himself a Christian.

Bin Laden is a Muslim fanatic.

Problem is the fanatics make others afraid of the religion. Many people fear Muslims because of the Bin Laden types.

At least, we can see fanaticism for what it is, and begin to separate out what isn't fanaticism.

Take the case of Tim LaHaye, author of the Left Behind series, apocalyptic fiction. He believes the Illuminati is secretly engineering world affairs.

[darin]

...and Liberals are 'Fascism' Fanatics. They are 'Tyranny' fanatics. What makes them lose common sense? What makes them destructive and deplorable to society?

[Dilloduck]

There are all sorts of fanatics. Are you curious about Trekkies too ?

[KarlMarx]

I'm interested in what makes people fanatics, and where do you draw the line?

Hitler obviously was a fanatic. The genocide of six million Jews proves it. I didn't know he justified his prejudice of the Jews with bible passages. It got me to thinking about the whole issue of fanaticism and the role religion plays in it. Hitler considered himself a Christian.

Bin Laden is a Muslim fanatic.

Problem is the fanatics make others afraid of the religion. Many people fear Muslims because of the Bin Laden types.

At least, we can see fanaticism for what it is, and begin to separate out what isn't fanaticism.

It's hard for you to look at the fanaticism that is on the Left, since you're a part of it. Since I'm on the Right, I see a lot of it. For instance, abortionists who cannot bear to see Roe vs. Wade changed one iota, even to the point of advocating partial birth abortions, which is nothing more than infanticide. I see Left Wingers who are more concerned with saving the planet rather than helping their fellow man. I can go on, but I think you see the point I'm trying to make....

[Wind Song]

I have no problem looking at fanaticism on the left. The animal right's activists come to mind. I haven't heard that they are religiously motivated though. I'm examining religious fanaticism. The Heaven's Gate cult, the Jim Jones cult, Waco.

Here's an example of religious fanaticism in Grayson County, AV. A woman named Laura George wanted to set up an interfaith retreat center in Independence, VA. The motto of the center, "In God, We Grow." Christian fundamentalists flooded the Board of Supervisors to protest the retreat center saying the center was "anti-Christian, a cult, and a threat to their community". The board killed it. The woman is suing. Clearly, this was a violation of her First Amendment Rights as well as the state of Virginia's constitutional guarantees of freedom of speech and religion.

[Dilloduck]

Do you see a difference between devout and fanatic or are they two subject terms for the same behavior ?

[Abbey Marie]

Oh, and... Giants in '11!

[Wind Song]

Do you see a difference between devout and fanatic or are they two subject terms for the same behavior ?

Devout and fanatic are different behaviors.

Heres another example of fanaticism.

Rajaneesh Puram in Eastern Oregon. The townspeople were up in arms in Antelope, Oregon when this group moved into town. With good reason, too. The Rajaneeshees trucked in homeless people to vote in the elections giving the Rajaneeshees more power than was warranted.

Eventually, Ma Anand Sheila was convicted of poisoning the water in Antelope in order to kill local politicians.

[fj1200]

Tolle writes in the introduction to his second book, Stillness Speaks, that "A true spiritual teacher does not have anything to teach in the conventional sense of the word, does not have anything to give or add to you, such as new information, beliefs, or rules of conduct. The only function of such a teacher is to help you remove that which separates you from the truth ... The words are no more than signposts."[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle#cite_note-StillnessSpeaks-17)Tolle says that his book, The Power of Now, is "a restatement for our time of that one timeless spiritual teaching, the essence of all religions".[31] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle#cite_note-PoN6-30) He writes that religions "have become so overlaid with extraneous matter that their spiritual substance has become almost completely obscured",[31] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle#cite_note-PoN6-30) that they have become "to a large extent ... divisive rather than unifying forces" and become "themselves part of the insanity".[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle#cite_note-31)
Tolle writes that "the most significant thing that can happen to a human being the separation process of thinking and awareness" and that awareness is "the space in which thoughts exist".[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle#cite_note-32) Tolle says that "the primary cause of unhappiness is never the situation but your thoughts about it".[34] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle#cite_note-33)
According to Tolle's official website, "at the core of Tolle's teachings lies the transformation of consciousness, a spiritual awakening that he sees as the next step in human evolution. An essential aspect of this awakening consists in transcending our ego-based state of consciousness. This is a prerequisite not only for personal happiness but also for the ending of violent conflict endemic on our planet".[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle#cite_note-bioOW-13)
In his book [I]A New Earth, Tolle describes a major aspect of the human dysfunction as "ego" or an "illusory sense of self"[35] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle#cite_note-34) based on one's memories and thoughts,[36] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle#cite_note-35) and another major aspect he calls "pain-body"[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle#cite_note-NY-6) or "an accumulation of old emotional pain".[37] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle#cite_note-36)
Tolle often talks about the relevance of figures in intellectual or popular culture. In A New Earth, he quotes Descartes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descartes), Sartre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sartre), Nietzsche (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nietzsche), Shakespeare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakespeare) andAlbert Einstein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle#cite_note-NYT-wisdom-1)[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle#cite_note-USAtoday-11)[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle#cite_note-NewEarth-19) He has spoken of movies such as Groundhog Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundhog_Day_(film)), American Beauty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Beauty_(film)), The Horse Whisperer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Horse_Whisperer), Titanic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanic_(1997_film)), Avatar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_(2009_film)), Being There (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being_There), andForrest Gump (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forrest_Gump),[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle#cite_note-USAtoday-11)[27] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle#cite_note-Rainey-26)[38] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle#cite_note-37) and musicians such as Mozart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozart), The Beatles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles) and The Rolling Stones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rolling_Stones). He arranged an album of music in 2008 entitled Music to Quiet the Mind including work composed by Eric Satie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Satie), Claude Debussy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Debussy) and The Beatles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles), and music by contemporary artists such as Deva Premal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deva_Premal), Jeff Johnson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Johnson_(musician))and Steve Roach (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Roach_(musician)).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle#cite_note-marketwire-0)

[Gaffer]

Devout and fanatic are different behaviors.

Heres another example of fanaticism.

Rajaneesh Puram in Eastern Oregon. The townspeople were up in arms in Antelope, Oregon when this group moved into town. With good reason, too. The Rajaneeshees trucked in homeless people to vote in the elections giving the Rajaneeshees more power than was warranted.

Eventually, Ma Anand Sheila was convicted of poisoning the water in Antelope in order to kill local politicians.

That's an example of political fanaticism not religious. My bet is they were democrats.

[fj1200]

That's an example of political fanaticism not religious. My bet is they were democrats.

Yup, and those who hate Bush, Palin, tax cuts, etc. are extremely fanatical.

[Wind Song]

That's an example of political fanaticism not religious. My bet is they were democrats.

You don't know the Rajaneeshees, do you?

Anytime religion is used to justify evil that constitutes religious fanaticism.

Historical truth is that Hitler spoke to the Germans, proclaiming himself a Christian, and making Bible references to justify his lethal form of anti-semitism. Like it or not, religion is a factor in political violence.

[revelarts]

Mao Tse-Dung was an communist atheist. He tried to eradicate all competing ideologies, religious, political and historical. He killed more than 50 million of his own people, what kind of Fanaticism would you call that?

[Wind Song]

Mao Tse-Dung was an communist atheist. He tried to eradicate all completing ideologies religious and political and historical. He killed more than 50 million of his own people, what kind of Fanaticism would you call that?

Atheist fanaticism.

Warren Jeffs is another example of a religious fanatic.

[J.T]

I can also tell you that more atrocities were suffered by innocents at the hands of non-religious people, e.g. Communists, than at the hands of religious fanatics. One only has to look at the number of deaths inflicted on the masses because of the Soviets and by Mao Tse Tung and his followers.

:lol:

Non-religious? :slap:


The answers are to be scattered through the pages which follow. For the intellectual, material comforts are relatively unimportant; what he cares mostly about is spiritual freedom. The strength of the Catholic Church has always been that it demands the sacrifice of that freedom uncompromisingly, and condemns spiritual pride as a deadly sin. The Communist novice, subjecting his soul to the canon law of the Kremlin, felt felt something of the release which Catholicism also brings to the intellectual, wearied and worried by the privilege of freedom.

Here, indeed, is the explanation of a phenomenon which has puzzled many observers. How could the intellectuals accept [this dogma]? ... The [dogmatic] novice, subjecting his soul to the canon law of [their leaders], felt something of the release which Catholicism also brings... Once the renunciation has been made, the mind, instead of operating freely, becomes the servant of a higher and unquestioned purpose. To deny the truth is an act of service. This, of course, is why it is useless to discuss any particular aspect of politics with [an adherent of dogma]. Any genuine intellectual contact which you have with him involves a challenge to his fundamental faith, a struggle for his soul. For it is very much easier to lay the oblation of spiritual pride on the alter of [political vision] than to snatch it back again
http://www.amazon.com/God-That-Failed-Arthur-Koestler/dp/0231123957

[J.T]

In the years 1913 and 1914 I expressed my opinion for the first time in various circles, some of which are now members of the National Socialist Movement, that the problem of how the future of the German nation can be secured is the problem of how Marxism can be exterminated.
-Adolf Hitler

[J.T]

Christian fanatics don't worry me at all. They are annoying but harmless.

Bombings are harmless annoyances?


The Army of God is an underground network of domestic terrorists who believe that the use of violence is appropriate and acceptable as a means to end abortion.
An excerpt from the Army of God Manual says that the Army of God "...is a real Army, and God is the General and Commander-in-Chief.http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/violence/army_god.html

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Hutaree

[J.T]

People like this really kill me. Christian fanatics? Somebody bombs an abortion clinic and you're ready to paint with a broad brush.

Kinda like the islamapohobes who want to kill every muzzie on earth and demand that mosques be banned in the U.S. because a politically motivated bastard used religion as the tool of mass control it has always been and got a bunch of followers to kill some people?

[Wind Song]

What concerns me, is how Christian fundamentalist in VA were able to stop another Christian group from having an interfaith retreat center in their community. When Christian turns on Christian, it's really getting out there.

[J.T]

What concerns me, is how Christian fundamentalist in VA were able to stop another Christian group from having an interfaith retreat center in their community. When Christian turns on Christian, it's really getting out there.

No, you don't get it. We're the only true church, They're the false prophets and doctrines Jesus warns about in Revelation. They are deceivers and tools of satan. They must be destroyed so they cannot mislead so that the souls of countless persons may be saved. We are the righteous army of God himself... DEUS VOLT!

:rolleyes:

[Wind Song]

No, you don't get it. We're the only true church, They're the false prophets and doctrines Jesus warns about in Revelation. They are deceivers and tools of satan. They must be destroyed so they cannot mislead so that the souls of countless persons may be saved. We are the righteous army of God himself... DEUS VOLT!

:rolleyes:

Good thing I can recognize hyperbole. It worries me that fanatics can become mainstream.
Among the values shared implicitly by most Americans are:

1) that persons ought to be free to do as they please so long as they do no harm to others, and

2) that every person is entitled to hold an opinion, and that no person's opinion is necessarily or intrinsically more valid than any other's.

The radical religious right does not play by those rules at all.

[Abbey Marie]

I must have missed where our board's name was changed to "Christianphobics Debate Policy". You folks are always looking to spread the anti-faith. In fact, pretty fanatical yourselves.


(Here's a little secret: We don't care what you think, and generally just feel sorry for you)

[Wind Song]

Is this a Christian only board? I didn't see that it was required.

[Abbey Marie]

Is this a Christian only board? I didn't see that it was required.


You are joking, right?

[Wind Song]

Yes, I'm joking.

So far, from what I can tell, most of the members who post here are Christian though.

[gabosaurus]

I am a Christian. I am also a liberal. I think everyone should be allowed to believe what they want to believe. Which alone tells you how liberal I am.

[Wind Song]

Case in point.

[darin]

Christianity is largely incompatible with modern liberalism because Christianity is about freedom and love for others. Liberals love only power and creating dependency. They tend Hate liberty, self-reliance, personal responsibility, babies, white males, christians, and successful folk.

[J.T]

Liberals love only power and creating dependency. They tend Hate liberty

Christians dream of a theocratic dictatorship. Their heaven knows no freedom of thought, let alone any other liberties.



, self-reliance,

Jesus was a bum who crashed on people's floors and begged for money.


personal responsibility

Christianity knows no responsibility. You can do anything and be 'saved' before death and all is forgotten.

[revelarts]

Christians dream of a theocratic dictatorship.
By the one who created the whole show (seems about right), not by Christians over non-Christians.



Their heaven knows no freedom of thought, let alone any other liberties.

Well at that point there won't be any question as to whos in Charge and whether there is a GOD or who made us or how were built to act. since the creator will be there. Sure your free to make up things like a child who tells the parent that fire isn't hot. but whats the point?



Jesus was a bum who crashed on people's floors and begged for money.
He worked till he was about 30 And then spent 3.5 years pointing people to peace and God. Then threw himself on the grenade of hell for the world. but that's not work some folks appreciate. OH and he came back from the dead, partly to show that it could be done.
And as far as others work goes there's something in the old testament some where OYEAH the book of Genesis the 3rd chapter and the 10 commandments. about working 6 days and resting 1.
And in the new testament something about, If an able bodied christian didn't work then he shouldn't eat.

But JT please Don't let facts get in your way.



Christianity knows no responsibility. You can do anything and be 'saved' before death and all is forgotten.
Well JT you start to soon here. you have to do the sinning 1st. Which you or Someone has to pay for. So the sinner is responsible for the greif of God and the Death of Christ. And only an ungrateful person would forget that gift. And at that point the Christian is responsible to tell others... and take abuse, of the light kind expressed here by yourself and Wind Song, but some sacrifice and suffer terribly to get the message to the whole world.

[darin]

Christians dream of a theocratic dictatorship. Their heaven knows no freedom of thought, let alone any other liberties.



Christophobes say that shit all the time.



Jesus was a bum who crashed on people's floors and begged for money.


and you're a retard with a keyboard. Nice.


Christianity knows no responsibility. You can do anything and be 'saved' before death and all is forgotten.

That's called Grace, dumbass.

[J.T]

how were built to act.

Built to act? What about free will? You're starting to sound like a caricature of an evolutionist.


not by Christians over non-Christians

Do you not know that we will judge angels? (http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/6-3.htm)


He worked till he was about 30

Source? Nowhere does the bible say that. He goes from being a child to being an adult mooching off his neighbors. They edited out whatever happened in between without so much as a single sentence mentioning where he was or what he was doing.


you have to do the sinning 1st.

No, you don't. You're born with the stain of sin. No man can ever be clean and free of sin. That's kind of an important part of the entire premise.


Christophobes say that shit all the time.



So does the bible. Go figure.


and you're a retard with a keyboard. Nice.

A bit defensive, eh? Why follow a communist if you're going to get so upset when the bible says his followers were a bunch of commies?

[revelarts]

Built to act? What about free will? You're starting to sound like a caricature of an evolutionist.
Who said you had free will? BUT assuming that you do, It's my understanding, at this point , that those that want to exercise a free will that's going to bring harm to others or themselves by the creators prefect standards will have opted out anyway.
But JT I'm not sure what your trying to complain about, do you want free netflixs or to get tats or drive faster than speed limit? what do think you'll want to do that will be so horribly denied.



Do you not know that we will judge angels? (http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/6-3.htm)

I should have qualified it by saying Other HUMANS on earth in faux Christian theocracy before Christ returns.




Source? Nowhere does the bible say that. He goes from being a child to being an adult mooching off his neighbors. They edited out whatever happened in between without so much as a single sentence mentioning where he was or what he was doing.
It was custom for sons to follow in the family trade, the 1st born even more so, without evidence to the contrary I'd say that's a fair assumption.



No, you don't. You're born with the stain of sin. No man can ever be clean and free of sin. That's kind of an important part of the entire premise. Some would dispute that but not me. It is important however to acknowledge that we do commit real time sin as well. That's not counting on the plus side of the ledger for us. Like the national debt were born into. we've started in a hole and we keep digging.

[J.T]

Who said you had free will?
If you don't, then you can't sin. The Christian premise falls apart, rendering your entire argument null.


It was custom for sons to follow in the family trade, the 1st born even more so, without evidence to the contrary I'd say that's a fair assumption.

I say it's safe to assume he was a child molester and a murderer for hire and that's why they didn't want to mention the missing 30 years.

But we can't really know either way, now can we? Whatever it was, it got left out of all existing versions of the story

[revelarts]

I say it's safe to assume he was a child molester and a murderer for hire and that's why they didn't want to mention the missing 30 years.

But we can't really know either way, now can we? Whatever it was, it got left out of all existing versions of the story

As you have so often pointed out the old testament was pretty harsh in some areas. the crimes you mentioned would have got him Stoned pretty Dang good. And he was held in some moderate esteem at home and his religious enemies of the day who were looking for faults never seemed to have anything to accuse him of even close to that so ummm Nope, I think we can logically rule those out.
With zero direct evidence, the general culture and customs would seems to be the best bet IMHO. Espesially since the childhood account and other accounts seems to portray him generally as a fairly provencal Jewish man.

[J.T]

As you have so often pointed out the old testament was pretty harsh in some areas. the crimes you mentioned would have got him Stoned pretty Dang good.

Nah. Remember, it said he could summon a legion of angels at will. He was quite a powerful warlock, too. Not so hard to imagine people being too scared to talk after Michael comes down and kills everyone holding rocks, is it?


And he was held in some moderate esteem at home and his religious enemies of the day who were looking for faults never seemed to have anything to accuse him of even close to that

How many would really know? I mean, even today neighbors are oft surprised when they find out what the odd folk down the street were doing.


so ummm Nope, I think we can logically rule those out.

No, we can't. There's no evidence either way. Whatever it was, it was worth removing from the record, though.


Espesially since the childhood account and other accounts seems to portray him generally as a fairly provencal Jewish man.

And where would that take us? Keep in mind that the rape of young virgin girls is not exactly an unforgivable offense under Jewish law. It just costs some silver coins and then your new wife has to die an 'accidental' death when she's too old to be any fun any more. So Jesus being a fan of raping young girls (quite young indeed, to ensure they were virgins) would not only have not led to his stoning, but wouldn't have even been all that big a deal. We already know he had a fondness for travel, as well, so there's no reason to assume he couldn't have been a traveling serial rapist- hell, it'd help explain why his neighbors didn't know any better. Of course, he demonstrated no great love or respect for social norms later on and he seems to have felt at home among the thieves and harlots, so maybe he just spent 30 years drinking, sleeping with whores, and enjoying all the carnal world had to offer before being called to his higher purpose. Maybe it was his way of dealing with the stress of time-traveling as a baby to be persecuted by a man who died before he was born- one hundred years before he was born, since many in the early church thought Jesus lived a century earlier. Or maybe they just didn't feel like making up that part of the myth- after all, Paul seems to think Jesus never set foot on Earth ('If Jesus had been on Earth...', he writes in Hebrews) and always set the Jesus story in some other, mythical universe.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73_IjNPmIEI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUBqgucLXzk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqvrZ8MicmM

[PostmodernProphet]

Those who have come into contact with Andrea Yates, David Korresh and Timothy McVeigh might disagree with you.

actually, it would have to be folks with no actual knowledge of Andrea Yates, David Korresh and Timothy McVeigh.........

[SassyLady]

I am a Christian. I am also a liberal. I think everyone should be allowed to believe what they want to believe. Which alone tells you how liberal I am.

I am not religious, nor am I an atheist.

I am a centrist......but the radical, fanatical, progressive liberals are moving the center (Overton Window) by enacting cultural changes that are damaging our society, therefore, my beliefs are aligning more on the right side of center as time moves on.

[J.T]

I am not religious, nor am I an atheist.

So you're a deist, then?

[Gunny]

So you're a deist, then?

Do feel free to skip the blather leaking out of your lips and get to the part where Hitler has nothing on you where religion is concerned. You BOTH bastardize it and use it to your own foul ends.

[SassyLady]

So you're a deist, then?

I don't classify myself ... it has a tendency to stereotype....I really don't fit any category. For example, I believe in a creator, but don't believe there is a set plan in motion that doesn't change. I believe in some prophecies and miracles. I just don't have a "religion" that tells me what to believe.