Contact lost with hypersonic glider after launch

[chloe]

An unmanned hypersonic glider developed for U.S. defense research into super-fast global strike capability was launched atop a rocket early Thursday but contact was lost after the experimental craft began flying on its own, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency said.The problem occurred during the critical point of transition to aerodynamic flight, DARPA said in a statement that described the mission as an attempt to fly the fastest aircraft ever built.

"More than nine minutes of data was collected before an anomaly caused loss of signal," it said. "Initial indications are that the aircraft impacted the Pacific Ocean along the planned flight path."

The 7:45 a.m. launch from Vandenberg Air Force Base, 130 miles northwest of Los Angeles, was the second of two planned flights of a Falcon Hypersonic Technology Vehicle-2. Contact was also lost during the first mission.
Shaped like the tip of a spear, the small craft is part of a U.S. military initiative to develop technology to respond to threats at 20 times the speed of sound or greater, reaching any part of the globe in an hour.

The HTV-2 is designed to be launched to the edge of space, separate from its booster and maneuver through the atmosphere at 13,000 mph before intentionally crashing into the ocean.

Defense analyst John Pike of Globalsecurity.org wasn't surprised with the latest failure because the hypersonic test flight program is still in its infancy.
"At this early stage of the game, if they did not experience failures, it's because they're not trying very hard," he said.
Pike said it's possible for engineers to still glean useful information about what worked and what didn't, despite the flight ending prematurely. The key is to analyze what happened in the final five seconds before contact was lost.

DARPA used Twitter to announce the launch and status of the flight.
The agency said the launch of the Minotaur 4 rocket was successful and separation was confirmed via a camera. Communication was then lost.
DARPA's statement quoted Air Force Maj. Chris Schulz, the HTV-2 program manager, on the challenge of flight in "virtually uncharted territory."
"We know how to boost the aircraft to near space," he said. "We know how to insert the aircraft into atmospheric hypersonic flight. We do not yet know how to achieve the desired control during the aerodynamic phase of flight. It's vexing; I'm confident there is a solution. We have to find it."

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=16760429&nid=1014

[SassyLady]

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=16760429&nid=1014

Heard a military guy talking on the radio about it this morning and he basically said it is a total failure as a weapon because it needs to be so precise...that it is about kinetic energy and therefore meets the criteria that it is not a nuke....or something along those lines

If we truly did have something like this wouldn't you want the world to think it is a failure rather than them thinking we have a weapon and they need to duplicate it?

Also, does anyone here think this is where that strange contrail came from a few months ago?

[chloe]

I can't imagine that all the money, research and preparation would just result in some houdini act:laugh2:

[SassyLady]

I can't imagine that all the money, research and preparation would just result in some houdini act:laugh2:

Long term strategic thinking .... like keeping guns in the locked in the cellar when everyone else has to turn them in.

[SassyLady]

If you have visions of this thing headed back to your house, DARPA sent out another tweet (http://twitter.com/#!/DARPA_News/status/101690682204372993) with the reassurance that the Falcon "has an autonomous flight termination capability," which likely means it ditched itself into the Pacific.

I should have faith in the "autonomous flight termination" capability when they can't find it? Why wouldn't they have some type of tracking device ... oh, that's right ... it's a stealth vehicle....perhaps it is working absolutely perfect.

[KarlMarx]

I heard about this plane. Unmanned, stealthy, capable of traveling 13,000 MPH (about 20 times the speed of sound). It will probably be used to deliver bombs. Seems like an ICBM but smarter and with stealth.

Last week, another program had a set back. This one was a dirigible that would be used to gather surveillance at high altitude for days or weeks at a time (High Altitude Long Endurance Demonstrator or HALE-D) plus it ran on solar power. It had to be brought down during a demonstration and didn't make its operational altitude.

There are other programs in the works, too, e.g. an unmanned replacement to the aging U-2 spy plane. The U-2 has been used since the 1950s and is notoriously difficult to fly. This replacement would not only give us the surveillance we need, but keep people out of harm's way.

[revelarts]

Like Sassy Says , or more implies. we are only getting the story form the gov't source, They could tell us that it went to moon and back we'd have no way of confirming or denying it.
But it seems weird that they would "loose contact " and not know where it went down. Wouldn't they have eyes on it as well. By Ships observing and or satellites. Sounds like a piss poor "test" if the only way your tracking it is by it's controlling devices. Could they be that dumb? sure, but I doubt it. Here's another option, less likey but not completely impossible. someone else took over controls and stole it. There's a movie waiting to happen. Red October American style?

[Gaffer]

Nothing in my hand. Nothing up my sleeve. Presto! It disappearded.

We are talking military, CIA and other govt agencies. None will coordinate their stories so there will be mass confusion as to what happened with a perfectly ordinary experiment.

[SassyLady]

Precisely my point! Whoever believes this just "fell" into the ocean needs to buy some of my waterfront property. No one spends that kind of money on a toy for a 9 minute playtime. I still believe they want our enemies to think it didn't work.

[Gaffer]

Precisely my point! Whoever believes this just "fell" into the ocean needs to buy some of my waterfront property. No one spends that kind of money on a toy for a 9 minute playtime. I still believe they want our enemies to think it didn't work.

I think so too, and at the same time they want them to know we have a nuke with stealth capability that can strike any where in the world within one hour. I'll bet the russians and chinese are taking note.

[logroller]

I'm guessing this project is similar to/in conjunction with the scramjet; test flights of the vehicle result in its destruction by design, as the costs of creating a recoverable craft would be far more expensive than the vehicle is worth as a consumable and, more importantly, wouldn't be a more cost-effective way to satisfy the goal of any experiment, the collection of data. The problem is that it didn't meet its hypothetical design criteria, controlled aerodynamic flight. It's demise into the pacific ocean, into so many pieces you'd need a mosquito net the size of a small city(OR LARGER) to collect, is a non-issue. Which is why those associated with the project talk about the data collected shortly before it was lost, because that's where they expect to make improvements for the next test, not in the pieces. Sure, I can find out what I ate by analyzing my stool, but I would begin with recording what I'm eating as I do it for a variety of reasons.:thumb:

I'm not naive enough to believe we are privy to all the projects and their purpose, but I don't think its a grand conspiracy either-- just a case of not needing to know. I'm sure if one had expertise or information, as to how to make this endeavor more fruitful, they would welcome assistance and make more details available, but again, on a need to know basis. That's not a conspiracy, that's just practicality.

[SassyLady]

I'm guessing this project is similar to/in conjunction with the scramjet; test flights of the vehicle result in its destruction by design, as the costs of creating a recoverable craft would be far more expensive than the vehicle is worth as a consumable and, more importantly, wouldn't be a more cost-effective way to satisfy the goal of any experiment, the collection of data. The problem is that it didn't meet its hypothetical design criteria, controlled aerodynamic flight. It's demise into the pacific ocean, into so many pieces you'd need a mosquito net the size of a small city(OR LARGER) to collect, is a non-issue. Which is why those associated with the project talk about the data collected shortly before it was lost, because that's where they expect to make improvements for the next test, not in the pieces. Sure, I can find out what I ate by analyzing my stool, but I would begin with recording what I'm eating as I do it for a variety of reasons.:thumb:

I'm not naive enough to believe we are privy to all the projects and their purpose, but I don't think its a grand conspiracy either-- just a case of not needing to know. I'm sure if one had expertise or information, as to how to make this endeavor more fruitful, they would welcome assistance and make more details available, but again, on a need to know basis. That's not a conspiracy, that's just practicality.

How is not broadcasting to the world the truth about a situation like this considered a conspiracy? So what if they lied about whether the project was a success or failure. I was just theorizing that it would be in our best interests to not publicly celebrate that the weapon was a success.

[logroller]

How is not broadcasting to the world the truth about a situation like this considered a conspiracy? So what if they lied about whether the project was a success or failure. I was just theorizing that it would be in our best interests to not publicly celebrate that the weapon was a success.

PR rules the day you say? No arguments there. Considering DoD project history, whatever we are publicly aware of is 10 years(or more) further along than they comment on. Maybe you're right; for all we know this is a partial truth; but then again, it's equally plausible the glider is a cover story, and the real mission is completely unreported. I don't see the value in doing either. Why say we're developing anything at all? Given the domestic political and economic climate, experimental flight testing doesn't garner a lot of public or political support and I believe a success would be welcomed more generally as money well-spent, earn some political capital, and it wouldn't behoove them to lie about it.

[KartRacerBoy]

I don't necessarily disagree with Sassylady, but didn't we lose radio/telemetry with both capsules and the shuttle for a certain stage of reentry? IIRC, it was a window of time that lasted for a few minutes, and it may be this vehicle failed at that point of reentry. But I wonder how besides radio they would track it if it's stealthy to radar?

As to a stealthy nuke as a weapon, as long as it has a rocket as a launch vehicle, it ain't stealthy. Somebody will track it's launch and surmise what it is when they can't track the vehicle.

[logroller]

I don't necessarily disagree with Sassylady, but didn't we lose radio/telemetry with both capsules and the shuttle for a certain stage of reentry? IIRC, it was a window of time that lasted for a few minutes, and it may be this vehicle failed at that point of reentry. But I wonder how besides radio they would track it if it's stealthy to radar?

As to a stealthy nuke as a weapon, as long as it has a rocket as a launch vehicle, it ain't stealthy. Somebody will track it's launch and surmise what it is when they can't track the vehicle.

Good point. Again though, how much of the details are undisclosed? I'm guessing the problem is that instead of gliding, it just fell like a rock. the reason communications were lost were more directly attributed to the vehicle's destruction, as I highly doubt they were unaware of the blackout phenomena. Which is characterized by ionizing gas around the vehicle. But radio communications and radar attenuation are different. Radar has functional and practical limitations. Because the vehicle is designed to operate within layers of natural radar anomaly, attenuation is obscured, ergo, they are stealthy. It's not that it doesn't show up, its just that at the speeds this thing would travel, positively identifying it as something other than some other anomaly is near impossible. Just like our other stealth aircraft, where it appears as a something as benign as a bird. Tracking a rocket launch is relatively easy, as their trajectory is simple; like throwing a ball, its accelerated path alone determines where it lands. Which makes things simple from a design point of view, once launched it just goes where you pointed it. Where this glider makes things different is in the ability to control the glide path beyond its accelerated trajectory. Alas, easier said than done. Or perhaps, as sassy has suggested, easier done than said.

[SassyLady]

Update


A superfast unmanned military plane traveled at 20 times the speed of sound and managed to control itself for three minutes before crashing into the Pacific Ocean in a recent test, military officials said.
The prototype Falcon Hypersonic Technology Vehicle 2 (HTV-2), billed as the fastest aircraft (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/08/19/military-aircraft-travels-at-20-times-speed-sound-before-crashing-in-ocean/?test=faces#) ever built, splashed down in the Pacific earlier than planned on Aug. 11 shortly after launching from California's Vandenberg Air Force Base on its second-ever test flight.
Related Video

http://a57.foxnews.com/video.foxnews.com/thumbnails/081211/640/360/156/88/edgelaunch081211_640.jpghttp://www.foxnews.com/static/all/img/article/video_190x107.png (http://video.foxnews.com/v/1107425750001/darpa-launches-hypersonic-jet)
DARPA Launches Hypersonic Jet (http://video.foxnews.com/v/1107425750001/darpa-launches-hypersonic-jet)
Vehicle goes from $320 million to zero in 2,700 seconds (US Air Force video)


http://a57.foxnews.com/static/managed/img/Scitech/156/88/HTV-2 image 2.jpghttp://www.foxnews.com/static/all/img/article/slideshow_190x107.png (http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/scitech/2011/08/10/experimental-military-plane-goes-mach-20/)
Inside the Air Force's 13,000-MPH Hypersonic Plane
(http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/scitech/2011/08/10/experimental-military-plane-goes-mach-20/)

An unmanned aircraft that can travel at a breakneck pace 20 times the speed of sound will take off Wednesday from an Air Force base in California for a test flight. The HTV-2 experienced some sort of anomaly, prompting the vehicle's autonomous flight (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/08/19/military-aircraft-travels-at-20-times-speed-sound-before-crashing-in-ocean/?test=faces#) safety system to guide it to a controlled splashdown, according to the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), which oversaw the flight.
Despite the problem, the aircraft reached speeds around Mach 20 (about 13,000 mph) and was able to control its flight for several minutes, officials said. [Photos: DARPA Hypersonic Glider's Mach 20 Test]
"HTV-2 demonstrated stable, aerodynamically controlled Mach 20 hypersonic flight for approximately three minutes," said DARPA director Regina Dugan in an Aug. 14 statement. "We do not yet know the cause of the anomaly for Flight 2."
The HTV-2 is part of an advanced weapons program (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/08/19/military-aircraft-travels-at-20-times-speed-sound-before-crashing-in-ocean/?test=faces#) called Conventional Prompt Global Strike, which is working to develop systems to reach an enemy target anywhere in the world within one hour. It launches on a rocket, then comes streaking back to Earth at enormous speeds, at times heating up to temperatures of nearly 3,500 degrees Fahrenheit.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/08/19/military-aircraft-travels-at-20-times-speed-sound-before-crashing-in-ocean/#ixzz1Ve0XQBLz

[logroller]

Update

Did you notice the video's title. Remember what I said about such projects not garnering public support and being seen as a waste of money?