View Full Version : Bad Mothering - Rights of the Unborn.
As I'm sure it's all too easy to imagine I find it somewhat hard to bite my tongue when certain situations arise. Earlier today there was one such event inwhich I bumped into one of my cousins while dandering to work. She was at a bus stop, smoking, and obviously pregnant. After saying hello and general pleasantries the convo went as follows.
Me: So how far on are you?
Cousin: *putting her hand with the cig on her exposed tummy and smiles* 6 Months, he's a boy.
Me: *Nodding at the cig* and I see you couldnt wait until he was born to start being a bad mother?
Cousin: *barrages me with swearing and tells me in no uncertain terms to go away*
This got me thinking of two things;
A) Why is it considered socially acceptable to publicly smoke while pregnant, no shame? (or maybe it's not in America, idk)
B) And more importantly, given the obvious Heath damage a smoker could be causing to their unborn (which may well be permanent) should it even be legal to do so?
I'm not generally in favor of legally scripting everything (especially things that I consider common sense) but with an issue like this surly something could be done to atleast stop it in public and add a stigma.
Your thoughts?
revelarts
09-17-2011, 10:30 AM
I had a similar experience at work.
For some reason people don't like being told that they are doing wrong. Especially while they are in the process of doing it.
I was told, after the baby was born "She JUST FINE!!!" in an a tone that was to put me in my place.
I'm against any laws but Public shaming needs to rise a couple of notches.
thanks for doing your part.:thumb:
chloe
09-17-2011, 10:33 AM
I quit smoking when I got pregnant. I don't know why people think its ok to do, I think it has gone to court when women have used drugs and alcohol in there pregnancy but it's not illegal to smoke.
I had a similar experience at work. For some reason people don't like being told that they are doing wrong. Especially while they are in the process of doing it.I was told, after the baby was born "She JUST FINE!!!" in an a tone that was to put me in my place.I'm against any laws but Public shaming needs to rise a couple of notches.thanks for doing your part.:thumb: Yeah I'm expecting a 'he's fine' message in a few months (or rather, hoping for one) as my parting sentence was "good luck living with yourself if he's born deformed" but we'll see.
Dilloduck
09-17-2011, 11:13 AM
Public shaming doesn't go over very well for religious zealots--I don't know why it should work any better for anyone else. Do you want to help this person or just make a scene ?
Public shaming doesn't go over very well for religious zealots--I don't know why it should work any better for anyone else. Do you want to help this person or just make a scene ?
Yeah but zelots are just that, zealots. The ordinary person in the street isn't.
And I don't care about helping her or not, she's an idiot, it's the unborn I'd rather help, having it forced upon her that she may be causing permanent damage to her child may be blunt, but it's a truth that I'm not gonna dance around
ConHog
09-17-2011, 12:27 PM
There is a bill pending in Arkansas to make it illegal to smoke while pregnant. It is already illegal in Arkansas to smoke in your vehicle if children are in the vehicle.
I believe that there already laws in place to deal with each of these instances, it's called child abuse, BUT due to the fact that some people don't believe unborns are in fact children, I can see why the need for clarification.
Shadow
09-17-2011, 01:09 PM
Public shaming doesn't go over very well for religious zealots--I don't know why it should work any better for anyone else. Do you want to help this person or just make a scene ?
Come on Dillo... you know darn well that most of the self righteous do gooder types like this think they have the "right" to shame you both in public and online for any infraction they dream you have committed. And if you get offended ..it's your own fault...never theirs for being a total a-hole. Annoying self centered nitwits.
Ps: Non smokers are almost as much of a pain in the ass as liberals. :rolleyes:
ConHog
09-17-2011, 02:02 PM
Come on Dillo... you know darn well that most of the self righteous do gooder types like this think they have the "right" to shame you both in public and online for any infraction they dream you have committed. And if you get offended ..it's your own fault...never theirs for being a total a-hole. Annoying self centered nitwits.
Ps: Non smokers are almost as much of a pain in the ass as liberals. :rolleyes:
Hate to tell, but we DO have the right so "shame you", and to be as annoying to you as we would like to be.
Shadow
09-17-2011, 02:15 PM
Hate to tell, but we DO have the right so "shame you", and to be as annoying to you as we would like to be.The fact that people think they are entitled to do so...and then actually act on it... makes them no better than the people they brow beat to death. Once upon a time people used to act better than that...guess those days are gone. Right along with personal responsibility,respect for others and the dreaded common decency.
ConHog
09-17-2011, 02:25 PM
The fact that people think they are entitled to do so...and then actually act on it... makes them no better than the people they brow beat to death. Once upon a time people used to act better than that...guess those days are gone. Right along with personal responsibility,respect for others and the dreaded common decency.
So you think people should remain silent when they see others endangering an unborn child?
Shadow
09-17-2011, 02:40 PM
So you think people should remain silent when they see others endangering an unborn child?
Remain silent? Depends. Are they going to be total judgemental assholes and cop an attitude being pushy and obnoxious because "they can"...or are they going to address the person as a human being out of real concern? If they plan on being aggressive and an in your face a-hole just because they feel like it...then,yes...they should mind their own damn business.
Edited to add: usually the people who are that obnoxious don't do it out of "concern". They just want to force their unwanted opinions on you...period.
ConHog
09-17-2011, 02:53 PM
Remain silent? Depends. Are they going to be total judgemental assholes and cop an attitude being pushy and obnoxious because "they can"...or are they going to address the person as a human being out of real concern? If they plan on being aggressive and an in your face a-hole just because they feel like it...then,yes...they should mind their own damn business.
Edited to add: usually the people who are that obnoxious don't do it out of "concern". They just want to force their unwanted opinions on you...period.
And people who smoke in public aren't being obnoxious assholes?
Shadow
09-17-2011, 03:01 PM
And people who smoke in public aren't being obnoxious assholes?
So...is this the stance you are going to take? The ol "I can be an obnoxious a-hole,but you can't" routine? How very Syrenn of you. :laugh:
People are allowed to smoke in some public places,if it bugs you non smokers move on to a smoke free zone. They have just as much right to "smoke" as you do to bitch and whine about it.
ConHog
09-17-2011, 03:18 PM
So...is this the stance you are going to take? The ol "I can be an obnoxious a-hole,but you can't" routine? How very Syrenn of you. :laugh:
People are allowed to smoke in some public places,if it bugs you non smokers move on to a smoke free zone. They have just as much right to "smoke" as you do to bitch and whine about it.
First of all, how dare you compare me to that pig.
Second of all, I am not the one who said a person doesn't have the right to be obnoxious, you are. That means I agree with your statement. Smokers have the right to be obnoxious. Just don't whine when someone calls you on it.
Now if you're suggesting that smoking while pregnant is merely obnoxious and not dangerous to the unborn child, I would have to disagree with you on that point.
Shadow
09-17-2011, 03:41 PM
First of all, how dare you compare me to that pig.
Second of all, I am not the one who said a person doesn't have the right to be obnoxious, you are. That means I agree with your statement. Smokers have the right to be obnoxious. Just don't whine when someone calls you on it.
Now if you're suggesting that smoking while pregnant is merely obnoxious and not dangerous to the unborn child, I would have to disagree with you on that point.
No, I didn't say they didn't have the "right"...but apparently it's too much to ask of people to use good judgement and some sort of common decency when talking to others... and not to act on every obnoxious assholy whim or thought you may have...huh?
Whether or not smoking is dangerous to this woman's baby...is between her and her doctor...not some smart assed do gooder off the street. That is where we disagree.
ConHog
09-17-2011, 03:43 PM
No, I didn't say they didn't have the "right"...but apparently it's too much to ask of people to use good judgement and some sort of common decency when talking to others... and not to act on every obnoxious assholy whim or thought you may have...huh?
Whether or not smoking is dangerous to this woman's baby...is between her and her doctor...not some smart assed do gooder off the street. That is where we disagree.
well, apparently it's too much to ask smokers to use good judgement and common decency when it comes to smoking in public to huh?
No , actually it isn't just between her and her doctor. For better or worse, the United States has a long standing tradition of protecting the rights of those who can't protect themselves.
Shadow
09-17-2011, 03:59 PM
well, apparently it's too much to ask smokers to use good judgement and common decency when it comes to smoking in public to huh?
No , actually it isn't just between her and her doctor. For better or worse, the United States has a long standing tradition of protecting the rights of those who can't protect themselves.
Not really...smokers are limited in where they are allowed to smoke because others want to force their own "morals" and "standards" on them. How about you avoid those areas out of "common decency" to them? You non smokers already fenced them in...don't stand outside the gate and bitch about it now.
The two main things about smoking that are harmful for babies in the womb are...low birth weight and premature birth. Both can be monitored by your doctor,who knows your history and can offer suggestions to help you quit that aren't harmful to the baby. Sorry...but I fail to see how some twit off the street forcing their nasty assed opinions on you do anything productive in this situation. Least of all "protecting the rights of those who can't protect themselves".
ConHog
09-17-2011, 04:05 PM
Not really...smokers are limited in where they are allowed to smoke because others want to force their own "morals" and "standards" on them. How about you avoid those areas out of "common decency" to them? You non smokers already fenced them in...don't stand outside the gate and bitch about it now.
The two main things about smoking that are harmful for babies in the womb are...low birth weight and premature birth. Both can be monitored by your doctor,who knows your history and can offer suggestions to help you quit that aren't harmful to the baby. Sorry...but I fail to see how some twit off the street forcing their nasty assed opinions on you do anything productive in this situation. Least of all "protecting the rights of those who can't protect themselves".
Someone just giving you their opinion isn't keeping anyone from doing anything.
I was speaking of laws when I was talking about the United States, as I noted Arkansas currently has a bill up for vote which would make it illegal to smoke while pregnant.
Personally I think if a person is stupid enough to smoke while pregnant they should be sterilized.
Shadow
09-17-2011, 04:40 PM
Someone just giving you their opinion isn't keeping anyone from doing anything.
I was speaking of laws when I was talking about the United States, as I noted Arkansas currently has a bill up for vote which would make it illegal to smoke while pregnant.
Personally I think if a person is stupid enough to smoke while pregnant they should be sterilized.
That was my whole point. Do people honestly think that forcing their unwanted opinions on a person (especially in an obnoxious and rude fashion) really make anyone change their mind or behavor? If anything...they just stiffen their resolve and do the opposite in spite of you. Do you like to be approached in such a fashion about anything you say or do? Most people don't. If you are really concerned...there is a better way to approach a subject or person.
Right...lets sterilize smokers now...cuz that's not extreme at all...:rolleyes:
ConHog
09-17-2011, 04:58 PM
That was my whole point. Do people honestly think that forcing their unwanted opinions on a person (especially in an obnoxious and rude fashion) really make anyone change their mind or behavor? If anything...they just stiffen their resolve and do the opposite in spite of you. Do you like to be approached in such a fashion about anything you say or do? Most people don't. If you are really concerned...there is a better way to approach a subject or person.
Right...lets sterilize smokers now...cuz that's not extreme at all...:rolleyes:
I didn't advocate sterilizing smokers, I advocate sterilizing stupid people.
Public shaming doesn't go over very well for religious zealots--I don't know why it should work any better for anyone else. Do you want to help this person or just make a scene ?
Do we care about her? Or do we care about the child?
There is a bill pending in Arkansas to make it illegal to smoke while pregnant. It is already illegal in Arkansas to smoke in your vehicle if children are in the vehicle.
I believe that there already laws in place to deal with each of these instances, it's called child abuse, BUT due to the fact that some people don't believe unborns are in fact children, I can see why the need for clarification.
Can they smoke until the end of the first trimester? I as because it'd be odd if you were allowed to kill them but not to expose them to nicotine.
ConHog
09-17-2011, 05:27 PM
Do we care about her? Or do we care about the child?
Can they smoke until the end of the first trimester? I as because it'd be odd if you were allowed to kill them but not to expose them to nicotine.
To be honest JT I don't know the details of the bill. I only heard a blurb about it on the radio the other day and haven't done any studying because frankly it doesn't affect me.
revelarts
09-17-2011, 06:39 PM
No, I didn't say they didn't have the "right"...but apparently it's too much to ask of people to use good judgement and some sort of common decency when talking to others... and not to act on every obnoxious assholy whim or thought you may have...huh?
Whether or not smoking is dangerous to this woman's baby...is between her and her doctor...not some smart assed do gooder off the street. That is where we disagree.
I'm not quite understanding your point, I mean i get some of it, no one like an arse, but Frankly I privately and quietly ask the women if she thought it was good idea to keep smoking while pregnant? A very mild "Shaming" in my opinion, but she took GREAT offense and stormed off puffing away.
As I mentioned NO ONE likes being told they are doing WRONG, but it doesn't mean your an arse if you say something. If you saw a mother putting a cigertte in a 2 month olds mouth wouldn't you say something? Or would you Be No Good Do GoodNik who should mind his own #%$^* Biz?
But the part i don't get is this,
the person who's looking out of the kid is an arse but the pregnant smoker who's damaging the unborn kid is NOT an arse, and needs to be treated with the utmost respect and deference. Seems Bass Akward to me.
As I mentioned I'm against anti smoking laws but public opinion/positive peer pressure/public shamming have kept people from doing plenty of STUPID things. And a consistent dose of it in this case seems more than reasonable response.
even if said in a way that's not sweet and kind, it's still true. And if woman has sense she might reconsider her actions even if the the person bearing the truth was an Arse.
Shadow
09-17-2011, 07:44 PM
I'm not quite understanding your point, I mean i get some of it, no one like an arse, but Frankly I privately and quietly ask the women if she thought it was good idea to keep smoking while pregnant? A very mild "Shaming" in my opinion, but she took GREAT offense and stormed off puffing away.
As I mentioned NO ONE likes being told they are doing WRONG, but it doesn't mean your an arse if you say something. If you saw a mother putting a cigertte in a 2 month olds mouth wouldn't you say something? Or would you Be No Good Do GoodNik who should mind his own #%$^* Biz?
But the part i don't get is this,
the person who's looking out of the kid is an arse but the pregnant smoker who's damaging the unborn kid is NOT an arse, and needs to be treated with the utmost respect and deference. Seems Bass Akward to me.
As I mentioned I'm against anti smoking laws but public opinion/positive peer pressure/public shamming have kept people from doing plenty of STUPID things. And a consistent dose of it in this case seems more than reasonable response.
even if said in a way that's not sweet and kind, it's still true. And if woman has sense she might reconsider her actions even if the the person bearing the truth was an Arse.
I was refering to the OP's opening convo. He got back exactly what he gave in terms of rudeness and accomplished absolutely nothing...yet somehow that is the mothers fault. I don't see it that way...he was an a-hole first... right out of the gate. Of course she was going to be defensive,anyone would be. I don't like people who "shame you in public" all in the name of being a do gooder...when really their intention is just to be an "opinionated ass".
Now...when you explain the approach you would take in the same situation...that sounds more reasonable to me (it's all in the approach and intent). And you are wrong...everyone deserves to be treated with a certain amount of respect.
Shadow
09-17-2011, 07:47 PM
Do we care about her? Or do we care about the child?
Can they smoke until the end of the first trimester? I as because it'd be odd if you were allowed to kill them but not to expose them to nicotine.
Yes,well nicotine is bad...but scissors in the base of the skull...no problemo. What a weird weird world we live in.
Dilloduck
09-17-2011, 08:11 PM
Do we care about her? Or do we care about the child?
Can they smoke until the end of the first trimester? I as because it'd be odd if you were allowed to kill them but not to expose them to nicotine.
Lord knows we can't tolerate odd. I'd have to walk right up to you and tell you "you're odd".
It makes me feel like I've done my bit to save the world.
I'd have to walk right up to you and tell you "you're odd".
I'd ask if you were slow, if it took you this long to figure that out :p
PostmodernProphet
09-20-2011, 07:17 AM
if it's okay to kill them, why balk at messing them up a little.....
LuvRPgrl
09-25-2011, 12:25 AM
I didn't advocate sterilizing smokers, I advocate sterilizing stupid people.
Im quite confident that someone considers you stupid.
Kathianne
09-25-2011, 12:55 AM
Im quite confident that someone considers you stupid.
Now that can be said for all of us, bar none.
ConHog
09-25-2011, 01:01 AM
Im quite confident that someone considers you stupid.
I'm sure that's true. There are lots of people out there who seemingly enjoy being wrong.
I'm sure that's true. There are lots of people out there who seemingly enjoy being wrong.
How many link to satirical articles thinking they're real studies?
LuvRPgrl
09-25-2011, 10:35 AM
Now that can be said for all of us, bar none.
absolutely correct. But how many of us advocate to sterilize stupid people? In fact, that was my point, everyone would qualify, hence.....
LuvRPgrl
09-25-2011, 10:38 AM
I'm sure that's true. There are lots of people out there who seemingly enjoy being wrong.
whereas you dont enjoy it.
ConHog
09-25-2011, 02:07 PM
whereas you dont enjoy it.
When (if) it happens, I will let you know how much I did or didn't enjoy it.
LuvRPgrl
09-25-2011, 04:16 PM
When (if) it happens, I will let you know how much I did or didn't enjoy it.
hahaha, I have to say one thing about ya.
Who was that, beanerboy whom I exposed with contradicting statements about history and economics, he just blathered out some excuse why he wasnt wrong....
But I have seen you on occasions, when a mistake you made was pointed out, you simply owned up to it. I do respect that about ya
There are no words.... FLAWLESS victory;http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j176/jonathan-mcc/e8bdba1a.jpg
ConHog
09-25-2011, 04:27 PM
hahaha, I have to say one thing about ya.
Who was that, beanerboy whom I exposed with contradicting statements about history and economics, he just blathered out some excuse why he wasnt wrong....
But I have seen you on occasions, when a mistake you made was pointed out, you simply owned up to it. I do respect that about ya
I've never understood that either. I mean holy cow , we're just humans on here of course we're going to get facts wrong occasionally or just post something that later on we think "what the fuck?" so why not just own up to it when you do and move on? Most won't though. I've seen people , and yes beanerboy is one of the worst, just make themselves look twice as stupid by arguing than they would have had they simply said "oops my bad" and moved on.
Of course, I make so few mistakes as compared to the average person, that I can afford to be magnanimous when it does happen.:laugh2:
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