Loosechange debunked

[Yurt]

I know 9/11 stuff has been hashed over, however, I just saw this debate and I think it is pretty good. Seven minutes, so somewhat long, but very telling on the different postures of people with the truth (Popular Mechanics editors) versus people who are spreading lies.

This video clearly shows that these 9/11 theories are ridiculous. I also bring this, because I don't think it has been discussed on DP. I really feel we have a great membership and would be interested in a "fresh" discussion. Besides, I personally have a family member who still believes loosechange is right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBaMfwUL_-w

[Hagbard Celine]

In my opinion, the points raised in loosechange are valid enough to make me question the official story of the pentagon attack. I'd appreciate it if posters would not jump to the conclusion that I "believe in" loosechange. They raise interesting questions is all I'm saying.

[Yurt]

In my opinion, the points raised in loosechange are valid enough to make me question the official story of the pentagon attack. I'd appreciate it if posters would not jump to the conclusion that I "believe in" loosechange. They raise interesting questions is all I'm saying.

Fair enough. With that section of the interview, do you feel that some of their points were addressed adequately?

Would love to find the whole interview.

[Hagbard Celine]

Fair enough. With that section of the interview, do you feel that some of their points were addressed adequately?

Would love to find the whole interview.

Not really. The loosechange guys countered their responses every time. When told you could technically use a cell phone at cruising altitude, they countered with "well why did AA spend a fortune to do just that if you could already do it before?" That's a good point. When told the coroner found body fragments they countered "to our knowledge the coroner has never found a drop of blood and at the time of and immediately around the attack he hadn't either." That's a good point. Not to mention the fact that the coroner won't talk to them. They also make a really good point about there not being any actual plane parts at the site of the crash. Also, the Pentagon never has released any of the videos of the crash. Why not? If you've ever seen loosechange, they also explain that it would've been near impossible to physically fly the size of plane they say crashed that low to the ground for as long as they say they did and hit the pentagon without tearing up the ground in front of the building. In my opinion these are all valid points that make me sceptical of the official version of the story.

[Yurt]

Hagbard Celine;58296]Not really. The loosechange guys countered their responses every time. When told you could technically use a cell phone at cruising altitude, they countered with "well why did AA spend a fortune to do just that if you could already do it before?" That's a good point.


I believe they spent the money to "improve" the signal. As the PM guy said, the capability was there, they are only improving it. And what is this "fortune" we are talking about? Again, they simply spout words.




When told the coroner found body fragments they countered "to our knowledge the coroner has never found a drop of blood and at the time of and immediately around the attack he hadn't either." That's a good point. Not to mention the fact that the coroner won't talk to them.

Agreed, I thought the PM guys answered this, but there is no conclusive answer in the video. However, simpy because the Coroner won't talk to them, does not mean they have proof. On this one, I will side with the PM guy's explanation.




They also make a really good point about there not being any actual plane parts at the site of the crash. Also, the Pentagon never has released any of the videos of the crash. Why not? If you've ever seen loosechange, they also explain that it would've been near impossible to physically fly the size of plane they say crashed that low to the ground for as long as they say they did and hit the pentagon without tearing up the ground in front of the building. In my opinion these are all valid points that make me sceptical of the official version of the story.

Would you agree that there are also eye witnesses thought saw "something like a plane?" Would also agree, that the PM guys actually said there were parts. Or are they lying?

[glockmail]

The video is no longer available.

So if it wasn't a plane, what was it? :poke:

[Dilloduck]

The video is no longer available.

So if it wasn't a plane, what was it? :poke:

It would suck if we had to admit it was a hijacked cruise missle or one we just decided to aim at the Pentagon.

[Hagbard Celine]

The video is no longer available.

So if it wasn't a plane, what was it? :poke:

The three to five frames the Pentagon did release show something much smaller than a huge passenger plane. The small, consecutive holes in each of the pentagon walls would point toward a cruise missile. And there are other videos. A hotel camera and a gas station camera adjacent to the Pentagon caught the whole thing on video but the Pentagon confiscated the video before anyone in the outside world could see it. I imagine that they still have the video. Wouldn't showing the video put all these conspiracy theories to rest? Why are they keeping it hidden?

[Dilloduck]

The three to five frames the Pentagon did release show something much smaller than a huge passenger plane. The small, consecutive holes in each of the pentagon walls would point toward a cruise missile. And there are other videos. A hotel camera and a gas station camera adjacent to the Pentagon caught the whole thing on video but the Pentagon confiscated the video before anyone in the outside world could see it. I imagine that they still have the video. Wouldn't showing the video put all these conspiracy theories to rest? Why are they keeping it hidden?

Maybe Hillary launched it and they don't want to screw up her image. Maybe Bill sold it to some California peacenik for a some extra cash. The possiblities are endless. (Michael Jackson got pissed off?)

[glockmail]

It would suck if we had to admit it was a hijacked cruise missle or one we just decided to aim at the Pentagon. If it where a missle where was the crater from the explosion? Those things carry something like 1000 pounds of high explosives.

[Yurt]

The video is no longer available.

So if it wasn't a plane, what was it? :poke:

Obviously loosechange is trying to shut this information down....:laugh2:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stVmEmJ666M

[Yurt]

The three to five frames the Pentagon did release show something much smaller than a huge passenger plane. The small, consecutive holes in each of the pentagon walls would point toward a cruise missile. And there are other videos. A hotel camera and a gas station camera adjacent to the Pentagon caught the whole thing on video but the Pentagon confiscated the video before anyone in the outside world could see it. I imagine that they still have the video. Wouldn't showing the video put all these conspiracy theories to rest? Why are they keeping it hidden?

So people like you continue to look like fools. They don't have to produce anything. You say it "looked" smaller. If it was a missile at that speed, you would have seen nothing.

[Dilloduck]

If it where a missle where was the crater from the explosion? Those things carry something like 1000 pounds of high explosives.

it was one of them alien one-sided missles :laugh2:

[Hagbard Celine]

If it where a missle where was the crater from the explosion? Those things carry something like 1000 pounds of high explosives.

Look up "cruise missile building" in your google images bar. They don't always blow a crater in the ground--especially when they hit buildings. The thing about plane crashes though, is that they ALWAYS leave debris behind. :dunno:

[glockmail]

The three to five frames the Pentagon did release show something much smaller than a huge passenger plane. The small, consecutive holes in each of the pentagon walls would point toward a cruise missile. And there are other videos. A hotel camera and a gas station camera adjacent to the Pentagon caught the whole thing on video but the Pentagon confiscated the video before anyone in the outside world could see it. I imagine that they still have the video. Wouldn't showing the video put all these conspiracy theories to rest? Why are they keeping it hidden? I saw the video from the penatgon security camera withinn days of 9/11 and it looked just like a passenger plane. A cruise missle not rigged to blow up would not have the mass and momentum to go through several layers of walls, but a passenger plane would. Maybe the hotel and gas station camera never existied in the first place.

[theHawk]

More importantly, where did AA Flight 77 go if it wasn't Flt 77 that crashed into the Pentagon?

[Hagbard Celine]

So people like you continue to look like fools. They don't have to produce anything. You say it "looked" smaller. If it was a missile at that speed, you would have seen nothing.

You can see anything if you break video down to frames genius. And yes, it "looks" smaller than a plane. You can see the supposed "plane" in the first frame of the 5-frame series the Pentagon released. The object in question is shown directly above the far-right orange cone in the first frame.

BTW, I'm glad the Pentagon has the time to purposely make me look like a fool. That makes me feel real secure. :rolleyes:

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/videos/uncropped.html

[glockmail]

Look up "cruise missile building" in your google images bar. They don't always blow a crater in the ground--especially when they hit buildings. The thing about plane crashes though, is that they ALWAYS leave debris behind. :dunno:

There was debris all throughout the building. It was disposed of along with the building debris. The black box confirms the crash.

So where were all the people who were on the missing plane? Where is the missing plane?

[glockmail]

.....

BTW, I'm glad the Pentagon has the time to purposely make me look like a fool. That makes me feel real secure. :rolleyes:

....

It appears that the responsibilty for making you look like a fool is soley yours.

[Hagbard Celine]

There was debris all throughout the building. It was disposed of along with the building debris. The black box confirms the crash.

So where were all the people who were on the missing plane? Where is the missing plane?

I don't know. If something like this were true it would mean the US government is capable of attacking its own people. That would easily make them capable of making a passenger airliner--and all the people on it--disappear. :tinfoil:

[theHawk]

There was debris all throughout the building. It was disposed of along with the building debris. The black box confirms the crash.

So where were all the people who were on the missing plane? Where is the missing plane?


They're being held in a secret CIA prison by Bush goons.

[glockmail]

You can see anything if you break video down to frames genius. And yes, it "looks" smaller than a plane. You can see the supposed "plane" in the first frame of the 5-frame series the Pentagon released......

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/videos/uncropped.html


I see nothing in the first frame. An object traveling 500mph was not caught in this slow frame security camera.

[glockmail]

They're being held in a secret CIA prison by Bush goons. Gitmo? Are they all muzzies?

[Hagbard Celine]

I see nothing in the first frame. An object traveling 500mph was not caught in this slow frame security camera.

That white squiggle above the far-right orange cone is in the first frame and it isn't in the second. That's the object that hit the pentagon.

[glockmail]

I don't know. If something like this were true it would mean the US government is capable of attacking its own people. That would easily make them capable of making a passenger airliner--and all the people on it--disappear. :tinfoil: So if it were true then it must be true? What logic is that?

[glockmail]

That white squiggle above the far-right orange cone is in the first frame and it isn't in the second. That's the object that hit the pentagon. I see a squiggle- it could be anything.

I remember seeing the video on FNC shortly after 9-11 and seeing the plane. There are frames missing in this presentation.

[Yurt]

You can see anything if you break video down to frames genius. And yes, it "looks" smaller than a plane. You can see the supposed "plane" in the first frame of the 5-frame series the Pentagon released. The object in question is shown directly above the far-right orange cone in the first frame.

BTW, I'm glad the Pentagon has the time to purposely make me look like a fool. That makes me feel real secure. :rolleyes:

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/videos/uncropped.html

They don't have the time. Nor did they purposefully make look like a fool. Personally, I don't think you are a fool. But to believe this stuff is utter rubbish.

I clicked your link and I must say, it clearly shows a large object (fuzzy in the 1,2 frame) exploding into a building. The "fuzzy" object in frame 1 & 2 is not seen in the remainder frames. Look to the right of the screen.

What do you think that is?

[Hagbard Celine]

They don't have the time. Nor did they purposefully make look like a fool. Personally, I don't think you are a fool. But to believe this stuff is utter rubbish.

I clicked your link and I must say, it clearly shows a large object (fuzzy in the 1,2 frame) exploding into a building. The "fuzzy" object in frame 1 & 2 is not seen in the remainder frames. Look to the right of the screen.

What do you think that is?

That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying the loosechange boys are right or wrong. I'm saying they ask valid questions that make me question the official story. I don't know what the squiggle is, but I think it's what hit the pentagon and it doesn't look big enough to be a plane to me.:dunno:

[Yurt]

That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying the loosechange boys are right or wrong. I'm saying they ask valid questions that make me question the official story. I don't know what the squiggle is, but I think it's what hit the pentagon and it doesn't look big enough to be a plane to me.:dunno:

Have anything to compare?

[Hagbard Celine]

So if it were true then it must be true? What logic is that?

I didn't say that at all. I gave a simple "if this, then this" hypothetical scenario.

[Hagbard Celine]

Have anything to compare?

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/videos/docs/pcamf1.jpg
http://www.purdue.edu/UNS/images/sozen.pentagon.jpg

This artist rendering is all I can find at the moment.

[Mr. P]

These loosechange kids are idiots.

A cell phone won't work at altitude? BS I've used one in flight.

No aircraft parts seen at a crash site? I've seen crash sites where it was almost impossible to tell if it was and aircraft, unless you know what to look for.

Oh yeah, what the heck did they do with all those passengers?

Idiots, just plain Idiots.

[darin]

It's sickening to an extent, to see those loosechange idiots getting all worked up - and buying-into COMPLETE bullshit. Good lord - how could people be so blind?

[Mr. P]

I see a squiggle- it could be anything.

I remember seeing the video on FNC shortly after 9-11 and seeing the plane. There are frames missing in this presentation.

I remember seeing a plane also. Not only that, during the coverage I was looking for identifiable airplane parts..can't say why, because it was such a mess I guess. Anyway I did see parts in the Pentagon coverage. Seats, main gear and part of the tail section.

[manu1959]

if it wasn't the plane.....where did the plane and all the passengers go?

[glockmail]

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/videos/docs/pcamf1.jpg
http://www.purdue.edu/UNS/images/sozen.pentagon.jpg

This artist rendering is all I can find at the moment.

That's about right. Now let's compare the two elements:

In this corner is the world's largest office building, buit in the 1940's out of reinforced concrete to be a defensible location for the world's most powerful military.

And in the opposite corner you have a Boeing 737, made from lightweight aluminium sheet, and flying near ground level at 500 mph....

1. Most of the plane parts left would have been tiny after hitting that building- not recognizable.
2. The cause of the crash was known- crazed muzzies- so now crash investigation is necessary (same as WTC1, WTC2, and PA field).
3. The Pentagon is a classified area and CNN ain't allowed in there to take pictures.

[Yurt]

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/videos/docs/pcamf1.jpg
http://www.purdue.edu/UNS/images/sozen.pentagon.jpg

This artist rendering is all I can find at the moment.

Ok. So you have found lies for me. I asked you for proof, not "art."


If you like I can probably pull up a great mug shot of a "smug" guy with a "stogie" in his mouth....

Is that really you? All the time? The real you? But you changed your avi................

[glockmail]

I remember seeing a plane also. Not only that, during the coverage I was looking for identifiable airplane parts..can't say why, because it was such a mess I guess. Anyway I did see parts in the Pentagon coverage. Seats, main gear and part of the tail section. I remember seeing the main gear and crap too.

[Yurt]

if it wasn't the plane.....where did the plane and all the passengers go?

Ok, I admit it, they are in my back yard...............

[glockmail]

Ok, I admit it, they are in my back yard............... Make sure they have waterless urinals to use. :laugh2:

[Hagbard Celine]

Ok. So you have found lies for me. I asked you for proof, not "art."


If you like I can probably pull up a great mug shot of a "smug" guy with a "stogie" in his mouth....

Is that really you? All the time? The real you? But you changed your avi................

:laugh: "lies?" You're beyond over the top. The art I posted is a representation for you to compare the real image to. That's exactly what you asked for.

[Gaffer]

There was not much left of the plane in PA either.

The only questions loosechange raises is stupid questions. And the number of people buying into this stupidty just shows how many really stupid people live in this country. Anyone that buys into it even a little bit is one of those stupid people.

[Abbey Marie]

There was not much left of the plane in PA either.

The only questions loosechange raises is stupid questions. And the number of people buying into this stupidty just shows how many really stupid people live in this country. Anyone that buys into it even a little bit is one of those stupid people.

And the scary part is they all get an equal vote to us.

[glockmail]

And the scary part is they all get an equal vote to us. They all have a name for that group: Democrats. :laugh2:

[Hagbard Celine]

They all have a name for that group: Democrats. :laugh2:

Ya'll's material is LAME. :rolleyes:

[Gaffer]

Ya'll's material is LAME. :rolleyes:

Not that lame. If you did a check on how many are dems I think you would come up with at least 90%. The 9/11 conspiracy shit is all about Bush hating, no logic or reasoning behind any of it.