Cut out the middleman... [Archive] - Debate Policy

Noir

10-17-2011, 08:38 AM

..milk is made for COWS. (shrug). Pigs are made for coyotes and wolves, but we still eat them, because they are delicious.

When Wolves, bears, lions, tigers, dolphins, whales, and other mammals decide to be vegans, I will too.

And when other animals stop raping are you gonna stop raping too? Silly argument is silly.

darin

10-17-2011, 10:15 AM

And when other animals stop raping are you gonna stop raping too? Silly argument is silly.

If I raped, sure...whatever. Can you be sure animals are NOT raping? You're speculating.

Eating meat (no homo jokes, please) is natural. It's taught by example by other "animals" throughout nature. Only man assigns morality to the practice. It's hilarious to me, reading about folks decrying a practice to protect those who DO the very thing; the very subject of their rants and protests.

Noir

10-17-2011, 11:08 AM

If I raped, sure...whatever. Can you be sure animals are NOT raping? You're speculating.

Eating meat (no homo jokes, please) is natural. It's taught by example by other "animals" throughout nature. Only man assigns morality to the practice. It's hilarious to me, reading about folks decrying a practice to protect those who DO the very thing; the very subject of their rants and protests.

Why are you tangenting to meat eating? When the topic is about the unnatural act of drinking cows milk?

darin

10-17-2011, 11:54 AM

Why are you tangenting to meat eating? When the topic is about the unnatural act of drinking cows milk?

Why are you being defensive?

cross-species milk drinking happens elsewhere in nature.

Noir

10-17-2011, 12:06 PM

Why are you being defensive?

cross-species milk drinking happens elsewhere in nature.

Not defensive, just trying to keep on topic. I've had plenty of talks abou meat eating on this board so rather than have another topic on that I'd rather focus on cows milk.

And I'd love some examples to back-up that statement (:

darin

10-17-2011, 12:19 PM

And I'd love some examples to back-up that statement (:

Examples.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/video/dog-nurses-rare-tiger-cubs-13677935?section=1206833&tab=9482931

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTkZ6RhL6i8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F8Ktma5nL4

Noir

10-17-2011, 01:05 PM

Examples.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/video/dog-nurses-rare-tiger-cubs-13677935?section=1206833&tab=9482931

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTkZ6RhL6i8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F8Ktma5nL4

Ofcourse, kittens and cubs etc. they have once choice, suckle or die, no matter how bad the source may be, it's better than death. But that is not to say adults suckling from other animals teets is natural.

Infact the vast majority of animals (including cats, dogs etc) become lactose intolerant after infancy because it is unnatural.

darin

10-17-2011, 01:12 PM

Noir

10-17-2011, 01:24 PM

Having a soul - having the ability to think above our condition - and enjoy the benefits of cow's milk and products, highlights our differences from mere animals. :)

Isn't it great we have the intellect and ability to decide?

This coming from the same man who said not a dozen posts ago..."When Wolves, bears, lions, tigers, dolphins, whales, and other mammals decide to be vegans, I will too."

^,^

darin

10-17-2011, 01:52 PM

This coming from the same man who said not a dozen posts ago..."When Wolves, bears, lions, tigers, dolphins, whales, and other mammals decide to be vegans, I will too."

^,^

absolutely. Am trying to make a point. We are free to choose our meals. When somebody tries to demonize another's choice, it's silly and flies in the face of what makes us human.

When vegans try to point to how un-natural it is to eat meat, I like to bring up the OTHER carnivores.

ConHog

10-17-2011, 01:52 PM

stupid thread is stupid.

But that ad made me laugh. Imagine when that cow shits on that dude's head.

Noir

10-17-2011, 01:57 PM

absolutely. Am trying to make a point. We are free to choose our meals. When somebody tries to demonize another's choice, it's silly and flies in the face of what makes us human.

When vegans try to point to how un-natural it is to eat meat, I like to bring up the OTHER carnivores.

You seem to be failing to see the disconnect, by sayin 'other animals do x so it's natural' is a silly arguemwnt. Not all things in nature are natural for humans. Cows milk is a prime example, indeed it can be very bad for the health of adults.

Noir

10-17-2011, 02:09 PM

stupid thread is stupid.

But that ad made me laugh. Imagine when that cow shits on that dude's head.

Ah, sir, you spoil me with your timeless humour and wit ^,^

darin

10-17-2011, 02:19 PM

You seem to be failing to see the disconnect, by sayin 'other animals do x so it's natural' is a silly arguemwnt. Not all things in nature are natural for humans. Cows milk is a prime example, indeed it can be very bad for the health of adults.

I'm saying VEGANS saying "Animal-eating is MURDER" is silly as saying a WOLF is guilty of MURDER for killing and eating. Cow's milk is also very GOOD for the health of adults.

Noir

10-17-2011, 02:40 PM

I'm saying VEGANS saying "Animal-eating is MURDER" is silly as saying a WOLF is guilty of MURDER for killing and eating. Cow's milk is also very GOOD for the health of adults.

Sticking with the milk issue rather than going down the murder lane again : how on earth can you say it's good for us let alone 'very' good? Cows milk is packed with hormones, growth proteins, pus spores etc. the more research that is being carried out the mor links are being found between it and a range of cancers (specificity bowel cancer) not to mention the only thing that milk is known for being 'good' for is calcium, however, the human body has a much easier job extracting calcium for light green veggies (like broccoli) than it does milk.

Humans, like most mammals, only need milk in their infancy, at that should be coming from the breast of its mother

revelarts

10-17-2011, 04:10 PM

...Cows milk is a prime example, indeed it can be very bad for the health of adults.
It can be and so can some grains for some adults and some legume, some berrys, some mushrooms, some herbs.

Some people can thrive on the same foods, meat has been eaten and MILK DRUNK for multiple 1000s of years by humans it is the primary source of protien for some people gruops,

As Bloody mess as the below is(blech)...
sarcasm Alert But mr Noir just WHO ARE YOU to bring you ATHEISTIC MORALIZING TO THESE Ancient PEOPLES CUSTOMS... HOW DARE YOU TRY TO IMPOSE YOUR MORALITY ON OTHERS... sarcasm Alert
<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yGVdYiM5IXw?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" height="360" width="640"></object>

I'd say that Eating the blood is Forbotten, but other than that , hey it's their meal. If I remember correctly if they didn't eat seal and whale they would have much of anything else up there, not much farmland in the ice caps.
HIGH FAT HIGH PROTEIN, 70-90% and they are relatively long lived and mostly don't have diseases , until they start eating the western way.

revelarts

10-18-2011, 10:50 AM

Nior what's your take on Honey?

Noir

10-18-2011, 10:54 AM

Nior what's your take on Honey?

I hate the taste so i never ate it before i was vegan anyways.

revelarts

10-18-2011, 11:09 AM

I hate the taste so i never ate it before i was vegan anyways.
What took you vegan, was it more your perceived moral issues or more the health issues?

darin

10-18-2011, 11:21 AM

how on earth can you say it's good for us let alone 'very' good?

Benefits of Milk:

Good source of calcium, Vitamin K, Vitamin D, B12, Iodine, Vitamin A, Potassium, conjugated linoleic acid, and protein and Omega 3's. That's how.

It's also GREAT on Golden Grahams cereal and as the centerpiece in hot Cocoa. Both have added benefits of emotional wellness and mood.

Noir

10-18-2011, 11:29 AM

What took you vegan, was it more your perceived moral issues or more the health issues?

Kinda both; i was in work, eating some chocolate and crisps (chips) and decided i wasn't liking the taste of it so much and thought i'd go a month without choc or crisps (as i do from time to time) and over the next 10 mins i thought a bit and decided to go without any sweets at all, that lead me to thinking what i'd cook for dinner and i since allot of the meals i had included cheese (no so healthy), i decided to cut that out to make dinner more healthy and force me to be more innovative with cooking. After that i decided i'd basically gone vegan so i may aswell totally go vegan for a month.

I joined vegan cooking websites and from there got chatting to others and looked more in-depth into the moral aspects of animal products and so forth and decided it would be immoral knowing what i knew to start using them again.

Noir

10-18-2011, 11:31 AM

Benefits of Milk:

Good source of calcium, Vitamin K, Vitamin D, B12, Iodine, Vitamin A, Potassium, conjugated linoleic acid, and protein and Omega 3's. That's how.

It's also GREAT on Golden Grahams cereal and as the centerpiece in hot Cocoa. Both have added benefits of emotional wellness and mood.

All of which can be found in other foods with are not packed with growth hormones and puss cells,

Not to mention that the body finds it much easier to extract calcium from sources like green veggies that it can from milk.

Gunny

10-18-2011, 11:32 AM

Kinda both; i was in work, eating some chocolate and crisps (chips) and decided i wasn't liking the taste of it so much and thought i'd go a month without choc or crisps (as i do from time to time) and over the next 10 mins i thought a bit and decided to go without any sweets at all, that lead me to thinking what i'd cook for dinner and i since allot of the meals i had included cheese (no so healthy), i decided to cut that out to make dinner more healthy and force me to be more innovative with cooking. After that i decided i'd basically gone vegan so i may aswell totally go vegan for a month.

I joined vegan cooking websites and from there got chatting to others and looked more in-depth into the moral aspects of animal products and so forth and decided it would be immoral knowing what i knew to start using them again.

Dude, you've been owned. End of story. You're blabbing your butt off and D put a logical response to your every utterance. Give your face a rest.

darin

10-18-2011, 11:33 AM

All of which can be found in other foods with are not packed with growth hormones and puss cells,

Not to mention that the body finds it much easier to extract calcium from sources like green veggies that it can from milk.

What does that have to do with the benefits of milk? Milk, by your admission IS beneficial. Sure other sources exist - doesn't change anything, does it? Thus, I've answered your question: Milk is GOOD for adult humans.

Noir

10-18-2011, 11:41 AM

What does that have to do with the benefits of milk? Milk, by your admission IS beneficial. Sure other sources exist - doesn't change anything, does it? Thus, I've answered your question: Milk is GOOD for adult humans.

Okay, so milk increases you're risk of bowel cancer, high cholesterol, asthma etc (which broccoli does not) but hey at least its full of calcium (which broccoli is not, right? oh, wait...)

The dairy industry has one of the best possible PR machines going, and that will likely never be broken, but hey, thats life.

darin

10-18-2011, 11:55 AM

Okay, so milk increases you're risk of bowel cancer, high cholesterol, asthma etc (which broccoli does not) but hey at least its full of calcium (which broccoli is not, right? oh, wait...)

The dairy industry has one of the best possible PR machines going, and that will likely never be broken, but hey, thats life.

So - you admit Milk has specific health benefits - yes or no? Your made-up "risks" don't persuade me. How has Milk harmed you, or anyone you know?

Noir

10-18-2011, 12:04 PM

So - you admit Milk has specific health benefits - yes or no? Your made-up "risks" don't persuade me. How has Milk harmed you, or anyone you know?

Well, i was lactose intolerent when i was young and had a pretty bad reaction lol, but i'm not interested in personal anecdotes. Medical studies that show the links are *much* more interesting IMO

ConHog

10-18-2011, 06:10 PM

I would NEVER trust a man who wouldn't have a burger and beer with me.

Noir

10-18-2011, 06:34 PM

I would NEVER trust a man who wouldn't have a burger and beer with me.

I've heard that often enough and I don't know why. I once had a gfs dad who said straight to my face "no offence but I don't trust anyone who doesn't drink, so I don't trust you" what the hell are you meant to say to that? XD

Gunny

10-18-2011, 06:38 PM

I've heard that often enough and I don't know why. I once had a gfs dad who said straight to my face "no offence but I don't trust anyone who doesn't drink, so I don't trust you" what the hell are you meant to say to that? XD

Fuck off, pissant sounds good.

Noir

10-18-2011, 06:46 PM

Fuck off, pissant sounds good.

Yeah but that's not really a me thing to say, so y'know

darin

10-18-2011, 06:55 PM

Well, i was lactose intolerent when i was young and had a pretty bad reaction lol, but i'm not interested in personal anecdotes. Medical studies that show the links are *much* more interesting IMO

so....in your words, paraphrased "Milk has similar benefits to OTHER foods, but we shouldn't drink Milk".

(shrug).

:)

Noir

10-18-2011, 06:59 PM

so....in your words, paraphrased "Milk has similar benefits to OTHER foods, but we shouldn't drink Milk".

(shrug).

:)

Milk has benifits you can find in foods like broccoli. Milk also has drawbacks that you can't find in other foods like broccoli. Simples.

ConHog

10-18-2011, 07:02 PM

Milk has benifits you can find in foods like broccoli. Milk also has drawbacks that you can't find in other foods like broccoli. Simples.

Just as many brocoli have complained about being ate as have cows. So you don't really have an argument.

Noir

10-18-2011, 07:05 PM

Just as many brocoli have complained about being ate as have cows. So you don't really have an argument.

Indeed, my arguement lies in pieces in the face of such a point.

ConHog

10-18-2011, 07:09 PM

Indeed, my arguement lies in pieces in the face of such a point.

Well, then why is it immoral to eat a cow but not a broccoli? That makes a lot of sense.

darin

10-18-2011, 07:12 PM

Indeed, my arguement lies in pieces in the face of such a point.

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2009/349/e/7/LOL_My_Hair_is_a_Bird_by_The_Silver_Fox_Inari.jpg

DragonStryk72

10-18-2011, 07:19 PM

1) We are omnivores.

This is sort of a central tenant of being human, is that we are, by our nature, drawn to eat both plant and animal for sustenance. We are different than most any animal on the planet in that we are no longer acquiring food for simple sustenance, we eat for taste, comfort, etc..

2) Natural does not equal good

This is a mistake a lot of people make. defibrillators are unnatural, but they save lives. coca is natural and can be easily made into a drug that can kill you. Medical studies as to "good" foods and "bad" foods are almost always biased. Several years back, Doctors over her jumped up and down about how eggs weren't "good" for us. it was several years later when the same docs came back to tell us that indeed, eggs are good for us, but are high in cholesterol. Beer is unnatural, but I don't see us giving that up any time soon.

3) Milk has health benefits

As has been pointed out, Milk has many health benefits, but what was skipped is that it can aid in healthy weight loss as well.

4) Everything has risks.

I can get cancer from my cell phone, laptop, smoking, being around smokers, and a slew of other activities. Unless you can prove an adverse degree of risk, then really, it's right up there with all the other "risks".