View Full Version : Don't ask, don't tell
cadet
11-10-2011, 09:44 AM
In ROTC they've just given us the briefing on how the "Don't ask, don't tell policy" was repealed.
Many of the classmates made fun of this, and seemed inspired...
I personally don't like this one bit. What if I'm assaulted by one of my fellow men? Sorry, but those flamers freak me out. :poke:
The last thing I want is to be checked out by another guy.
So far as I know, I can't even request to not be bunked with one of them.
fj1200
11-10-2011, 09:49 AM
What if I'm assaulted by one of my fellow men? Sorry, but those flamers freak me out. :poke:
Apparently that happens regardless of DADT.
Lol,
reminds me of a guy (craig) who was a few years older than me in school. He came out as gay and the guy who sat beside him for History and Politics classes made a big fuss about it and said he wanted to be moved because he didn't want 'Craig's eyes to be on him during class' to which craig readily quipped "please, have you looked at yourself? I wouldn't put an eye on you if we were the last men on earth' :laugh:
Gunny
11-10-2011, 08:15 PM
In ROTC they've just given us the briefing on how the "Don't ask, don't tell policy" was repealed.
Many of the classmates made fun of this, and seemed inspired...
I personally don't like this one bit. What if I'm assaulted by one of my fellow men? Sorry, but those flamers freak me out. :poke:
The last thing I want is to be checked out by another guy.
So far as I know, I can't even request to not be bunked with one of them.
It's stupid to repeal it. It now means they can go back to pre-Clinton ways of just kicking them out, only they can put the question back into the contract. "Have you ever engaged in any homosexual acts or any other sexually deviant behavior?"
No one who serves in the military wants any of the flamers around. Gays have always served. Their service came first. These flamers want to be called gay. Their sexually deviant behavior comes first. Any such f*ck would serve his entire deployment in the pot shack in the ship's galley if I couldn't just get rid of his ass.
I wanted Marines. Period. If you're not there to serve and be part of a cohesive unit without proclaiming you're a retard ... bye. Mess duty or Ship's Platoon for you. You aren't disembarking with me.
It's stupid to repeal it. It now means they can go back to pre-Clinton ways of just kicking them out, only they can put the question back into the contract. "Have you ever engaged in any homosexual acts or any other sexually deviant behavior?"
No one who serves in the military wants any of the flamers around. Gays have always served. Their service came first. These flamers want to be called gay. Their sexually deviant behavior comes first. Any such f*ck would serve his entire deployment in the pot shack in the ship's galley if I couldn't just get rid of his ass.
I wanted Marines. Period. If you're not there to serve and be part of a cohesive unit without proclaiming you're a retard ... bye. Mess duty or Ship's Platoon for you. You aren't disembarking with me.
Why would an employer need to know the answer to that question, and what counts as 'deviant behaviour' anyways?
Gunny
11-10-2011, 08:41 PM
Why would an employer need to know the answer to that question, and what counts as 'deviant behaviour' anyways?
Dumbass. If the employer doesn't need to know, then why repeal "Don't ask, don't tell"? THAT accomplishes just what your PC ass is wanting.
Gunny
11-10-2011, 08:48 PM
When you weaklings quit expecting the strong to cater to your minority perversions we might be strong again. But then we know the fall of the Roman Empire came at the hands of the weak and perverted forcing their laws and rules on the strong by voting them out.
We're not first. We're just next.
Dumbass. If the employer doesn't need to know, then why repeal "Don't ask, don't tell"? THAT accomplishes just what your PC ass is wanting.
Because don't ask don't tell was stupid.
Like where i work, we sure as heck don't have 'don't ask don't tell' but that doesn't mean when being hired my boss needs to ask me who i do what with and whatnot.
Gunny
11-10-2011, 09:06 PM
Because don't ask don't tell was stupid.
Like where i work, we sure as heck don't have 'don't ask don't tell' but that doesn't mean when being hired my boss needs to ask me who i do what with and whatnot.
Where you work isn't the damned British Royal Marines, I bet. They'd tolerate a poofer about as long as they'd tolerate your candy ass. You dumbass civilians go to work and go hame every day. You aren't stuck on a tin can in the middle of the ocean for weeks/months at a time with 2000 other males.
The entire persona of the American fighting man is an alpha male and/or someone who wants to serve the country. All these flamers you defend want to do is serve their aberrant sexual behavior.
Laws that cater to aberrant minorities are laws that cater to the tyranny of the minority. The exact opposite of a democracy. You want to smoke pole? Do it on your own time. If that is more important than the Corps' mission, fuck off and die.
Where you work isn't the damned British Royal Marines, I bet. They'd tolerate a poofer about as long as they'd tolerate your candy ass. You dumbass civilians go to work and go hame every day. You aren't stuck on a tin can in the middle of the ocean for weeks/months at a time with 2000 other males.
The entire persona of the American fighting man is an alpha male and/or someone who wants to serve the country. All these flamers you defend want to do is serve their aberrant sexual behavior.
Laws that cater to aberrant minorities are laws that cater to the tyranny of the minority. The exact opposite of a democracy. You want to smoke pole? Do it on your own time. If that is more important than the Corps' mission, fuck off and die.
And what if someone is both gay and wants to serve their country?
Gunny
11-10-2011, 09:21 PM
And what if someone is both gay and wants to serve their country?
Gay people have always served this country. They don't have to be gay. They serve. That's all that matters.
A complete 180 degrees from those that demand to be recognized as "gay" first. Gay first isn't good enough and you sure as Hell won't be trusted by me.
Gay people have always served this country. They don't have to be gay. They serve. That's all that matters.
A complete 180 degrees from those that demand to be recognized as "gay" first. Gay first isn't good enough and you sure as Hell won't be trusted by me.
And what would happen under 'don't ask don't tell' if one of those gays who served the country was discovered to be gay?
Gunny
11-10-2011, 09:31 PM
And what would happen under 'don't ask don't tell' if one of those gays who served the country was discovered to be gay?
Legally? Admitting one is gay is not illegal, nor is it grounds for dismissal. Committing homosexual ACTS is punishable under the UCMJ. Too bad. No different than fucking a goat is punishable under the UCMJ.
Realistically? In the US Marine Corps? You'd get your ass beat.
Too bad if you don't like that. YOU, who are so quick to quote Darwin, don't want to accept the simple rule of "survival of the fittest".
Fact is, you weaklings only exist because the strong protect you.
DragonStryk72
11-10-2011, 09:35 PM
I don't get this idea that somehow being gay means they will rape every straight male they come across. If this was an occurrence, I think we would have heard about it by now. If you are a straight male, a gay man has the same chance of having sex with you as you do of having sex with a lesbian. All this bullshit is the problem of those who are afraid they're being checked out by gay men, and that's on them.
Let's settle it this way: Military or not, you are being checked out slightly by gay men every day if you are at least moderately attractive, period, just like every female is being checked out by straight men everyday. Most military showers these days are private, meaning there's pretty much no reason they would see your man-tackle in any case. And you know what? Getting pissy about that means that you believe that men and women should be kept separate at all times, because we had a whole discussion thread about men checking out women's assets casually. Strictly speaking, I'd be a bit more insulted if I wasn't getting checked out a bit, cause about the type of women you wouldn't check out, and that's what you're like to gay men. Just sayin'.
I think its time we put our big boy pants on and got on with the important stuff, like defending our country. Just seems like that should be more important in the overall.
If you are willing to fight and die honorably for your country, then you've got automatic points with me, and no, I don't frankly give a shit who you're fucking as long as it's not me or someone I care about, and it has no effect on my job.
DragonStryk72
11-10-2011, 09:39 PM
Legally? Admitting one is gay is not illegal, nor is it grounds for dismissal. Committing homosexual ACTS is punishable under the UCMJ. Too bad. No different than fucking a goat is punishable under the UCMJ.
Realistically? In the US Marine Corps? You'd get your ass beat.
Too bad if you don't like that. YOU, who are so quick to quote Darwin, don't want to accept the simple rule of "survival of the fittest".
Fact is, you weaklings only exist because the strong protect you.
And somehow my dad managed to not get his ass beat, despite being in the Marines. The thing is, the stereotypical gay that you are portraying here does exist (stereotypes exist for a reason), but they don't join the military, Gunny. I would die of laughter if my buddy Hector said he was going into the Marines, hell, if he said he was going Chair Force.
Legally? Admitting one is gay is not illegal, nor is it grounds for dismissal. Committing homosexual ACTS is punishable under the UCMJ. Too bad. No different than fucking a goat is punishable under the UCMJ.
Realistically? In the US Marine Corps? You'd get your ass beat.
Too bad if you don't like that. YOU, who are so quick to quote Darwin, don't want to accept the simple rule of "survival of the fittest".
Fact is, you weaklings only exist because the strong protect you.
And yet in twenty odd years 13,000 troops were dismissed because of 'don't ask don't tell'. Funny that, no?
Gunny
11-10-2011, 09:43 PM
And somehow my dad managed to not get his ass beat, despite being in the Marines. The thing is, the stereotypical gay that you are portraying here does exist (stereotypes exist for a reason), but they don't join the military, Gunny. I would die of laughter if my buddy Hector said he was going into the Marines, hell, if he said he was going Chair Force.
Try again. I already said gays have always existed in the military.
Completely different than flamers who want to be gay first, military second.
If you aren't military first, I don't want you. That isn't what the flamers want and you know it.
Try again. I already said gays have always existed in the military.
Completely different than flamers who want to be gay first, military second.
If you aren't military first, I don't want you. That isn't what the flamers want and you know it.
So is this man 'military first' enough for you?
Air Force Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach has flown on dozens of combat missions (http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=79714&page=1) over Iraq, Afghanistan and Kosovo as an F-15E Strike Eagle (http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/martha-raddatz-top-gun-10755762)weapons officer. His commanders have called him a "war hero," "superstar" and "#1 officer/aviator."
But now Fehrenbach is flying into the fight of his career – this time in a federal courtroom and under fire from the military he's spent 19 years serving.
A U.S. Air Force panel has recommended Fehrenbach be discharged (http://abcnews.go.com/US/lesbian-west-point-cadet-resigns/story?id=11395858)immediately under the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy that bars openly gay and lesbian service members from the force. His attorneys are asking a federal judge to find the policy unconstitutional.
Fehrenbach is one of the highest-ranking military officers investigated for homosexual conduct. A discharge before September 2011 would cost him valuable military retirement benefits awarded to those who serve at least 20 years.
The military investigation into Fehrenbach's sexuality was triggered in May 2008 when a civilian from Idaho accused Fehrenbach of sexually assaulting him. Police investigated the matter and later dismissed the charge as unfounded, acknowledging the accuser had a history of making false allegations.
Fehrenbach told police during an interrogation that he did have consensual sex with the man in the privacy of his home, 60 miles from the base. He did not know that military investigators were listening to his confession and obtained a recording of it.
the Pentagon has made clear the "don't ask, don't tell" policy is still in effect and if someone outs themselves proceedings will continue.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gay-air-force-officer-fights-discharge-court/story?id=11410732#.TryLhWBpcys
hm...
Gunny
11-10-2011, 09:51 PM
So is this man 'military first' enough for you?
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gay-air-force-officer-fights-discharge-court/story?id=11410732#.TryLhWBpcys
hm...
*yawn*
Your exception to rule as a typical leftiwingnut doesn't alter my argument all. Try again. loser.
*yawn*
Your exception to rule as a typical leftiwingnut doesn't alter my argument all. Try again. loser.
You said "Legally? Admitting one is gay is not illegal, nor is it grounds for dismissal."
That is clearly wrong, no?
Gunny
11-10-2011, 09:59 PM
You said "Legally? Admitting one is gay is not illegal, nor is it grounds for dismissal."
That is clearly wrong, no?
Did you read what I said? Admitting one is gay legally cannot get shit done to you. I had the misfortune of sitting on this board and I KNOW the law. Committing homosexuals acts is illegal.
Did they send your dumb, mediocre Brit ass to fuck up the Marine Corps's 236nd Birthday for me or what? How much does Obama pay?
Did you read what I said? Admitting one is gay legally cannot get shit done to you. I had the misfortune of sitting on this board and I KNOW the law. Committing homosexuals acts is illegal.
Did they send your dumb, mediocre Brit ass to fuck up the Marine Corps's 236nd Birthday for me or what? How much does Obama pay?
Admitting you are gay (or being outed) starts the investigation.
Wouldn't ya know i know the law too!
Publicly available documents and all that -
<tbody>
A member of the armed forces shall be separated [discharged] from the armed forces under regulations prescribed by the Secretary of Defense if one or more of the following findings is made and approved in accordance with procedures set forth in such regulations
</tbody>
<tbody>
(2) That the member has stated that he or she is a homosexual or bisexual, or words to that effect, unless there is a further finding, made and approved in accordance with procedures set forth in the regulations, that the member has demonstrated that he or she is not a person who engages in, attempts to engage in, has a propensity to engage in, or intends to engage in homosexual acts.
</tbody>
So you can be gay and serve, aslong as you never attempt to be in a relationship with a person of the same sex...
Quite why that makes a difference i don't know, i mean, if a hetrosexual man can put his country before his partner, you'd wonder it wasn't thought that gays could do the same.
Gunny
11-10-2011, 10:20 PM
Admitting you are gay (or being outed) starts the investigation.
Wouldn't ya know i know the law too!
Publicly available documents and all that -
So you can be gay and serve, aslong as you never attempt to be in a relationship with a person of the same sex...
Quite why that makes a difference i don't know, i mean, if a hetrosexual man can put his country before his partner, you'd wonder it wasn't thought that gays could do the same.
You don't know shit. You only know misuse of the law. The law itself doesn't support your argument.
DragonStryk72
11-10-2011, 10:23 PM
So is this man 'military first' enough for you?
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gay-air-force-officer-fights-discharge-court/story?id=11410732#.TryLhWBpcys
hm...
Um, gunny, that's not an exception, so to answer for ye- Yes, that's military first enough, according to Gunny. This guy served as an officer for 19 years, and trust me, if you don't love being military, and you can't handle putting it first in your life, you don't make officer, let alone make it near on two decades. that's one year before he could legally retire and collect pension on his officer's pay.
Now, that said, Obama can legally overturn the decision anyway, and not a single soul can gainsay him, why? Because he's Commander-in-Chief, he literally can just go ahead, look at the Fleet Admiral of the Navy, and be like, "Nope, he stays. that's an order, and no, I don't care to clarify why I'm giving that order,sir."
Wind Song
11-10-2011, 10:25 PM
What's the debate? Gays and lesbians can now serve openly in the military. Hurrah!
You don't know shit. You only know misuse of the law. The law itself doesn't support your argument.
Dear blesses, it is genuinely impossible to have a sensible discussion with you. There is something remarkable going on in your brainbox when i am quoting the text of the code saying 'if A then B unless C' and you are disputing it.
I have the ability to read, and when the code says "A member of the armed forces shall be separated [if]...that the member has stated that he or she is a homosexual... [unless] the member has demonstrated that he or she is not a person who engages in, attempts to engage in, has a propensity to engage in, or intends to engage in homosexual acts."
The i take it to mean that a member of the armed forces shall be separated [if]...that the member has stated that he or she is a homosexual... [unless] the member has demonstrated that he or she is not a person who engages in, attempts to engage in, has a propensity to engage in, or intends to engage in homosexual acts.
Wind Song
11-10-2011, 10:35 PM
:salute:
logroller
11-11-2011, 12:30 AM
Admitting you are gay (or being outed) starts the investigation.
Wouldn't ya know i know the law too!
Publicly available documents and all that -
So you can be gay and serve, aslong as you never attempt to be in a relationship with a person of the same sex...
Quite why that makes a difference i don't know, i mean, if a hetrosexual man can put his country before his partner, you'd wonder it wasn't thought that gays could do the same.
What are the military laws about fraternization and other behaviors?...might shed a little light on the 'no sex acts' stuff. It's not like the Marines are all about gaybashing-- they kick everybody's ass-- that's their job. I'd imagine if a member of the military engaged in any activity deemed inappropriate-- gee, I don't know, like fucking some random who has a history of filing false reports. Regardless of what's true, it still a great big fucking egg in the face-- look at Clinton getting BJs and Cain feeling up some hot blond-- no charges stick or anything, everybody just pokes fun at it because they know its bullshit-- but the military, comprised of members who stand ready to kill and be killed-- can't afford to be distracted by comedic relief. I'm not saying I agree with DADT, but I can understand the reasoning.
cadet
11-15-2011, 10:23 AM
alright, lets get this strait, you can't commit sexual acts, regardless of who its with. In the air force academy they are very strict on this. you have a child/get pregnant/get caught shagging, your out.
The fact of the matter is, is durring the don't ask don't tell, you were for your country first, and you kept it hidden. Thus, there was little to none of this treason against what you swear to do.
With the repeal of this, your stuck with the fact that sex comes first, making it easier for the flamers to go out and f*ck each other. Strait couples can't do it on base, hell, you can't do it with your wife on base either!
ConHog
11-15-2011, 12:07 PM
alright, lets get this strait, you can't commit sexual acts, regardless of who its with. In the air force academy they are very strict on this. you have a child/get pregnant/get caught shagging, your out.
The fact of the matter is, is durring the don't ask don't tell, you were for your country first, and you kept it hidden. Thus, there was little to none of this treason against what you swear to do.
With the repeal of this, your stuck with the fact that sex comes first, making it easier for the flamers to go out and f*ck each other. Strait couples can't do it on base, hell, you can't do it with your wife on base either!
Umm what? I believe you're a future cadet correct? Well, here's a hint. Soldiers fuck A LOT, and nothing is said unless it's WAY out of bounds.
Oh here's another hint, gays have been serving all along and the number of flamers has been pretty low and will probably stay pretty low because of teh caliber of person the military takes as a general rule.
This don't ask don't tell was a failure from the jump. Better to just say none of your business and go on about your life.
Love Monkey
11-15-2011, 02:15 PM
Seems like a pretty queer thread to me.
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