Republicans want to dismantle Medicare

[Wind Song]

House Republicans passed a version of Rep. Paul Ryan’s “Roadmap” as their budget for 2011. In addition to its draconian cuts to a constellation of different social services, the GOP budget added a series of “reforms” to Medicare, which were presented as a means to “save” the program.

In reality, Republicans had crafted a voucher program whose value was so low that, seniors would have to pay the bulk of their medical costs out of pocket. And while Republicans could credibly claim to have reduced Medicare spending with their reforms, it wasn’t through any mechanism that reduced the overall rate of health care spending in the economy. Rather, Republicans would “save” universal health insurance for seniors by dismantling it.

The simple fact is that Medicare—regardless of your thoughts on the value of the program—is a system of comprehensive universal health insurance for seniors.
To keep Medicare, Medicare, you have to maintain that basic principle. The program passed by House Republicans was designed to end the universality of Medicare by sharply reducing its benefits to seniors, and leaving them to fend for themselves.

[Kathianne]

Got a link there?

[fj1200]

WS, do you understand the unfunded mandates inherent to Medicare and that it is completely unsustainable in its current form?

[darin]

in related news - the Biggest Lie of 2011: "Republicans voted to End Medicare"

http://brianekoenig.com/2011/12/politifact-biggest-lie-of-2011-republicans-voted-to-end-medicare/

[Wind Song]

Nice spin but Republicans plan to kill Medicare with a voucher system.

[Little-Acorn]

From the above link:

The Pulitzer Prize-winning factcheck website PolitiFact has voted on the biggest lie of 2011, and the winner is – “Republicans voted to end Medicare.”

Specifically honing in on House Budget Committee Chairman Rep. Paul Ryan, Democrats and liberal media types spewed erroneous claims over House Republicans’ budget plan, which essentially resulted in wacky leftist claims like, “Republicans want to leave frail old 90-year-old grandma to die on her kitchen floor.”

In reality, Ryan’s plan would purportedly deflate the tumultuous debt mountain - that is, the feds’ spendthrift hell hole - by dispersing government subsidies for, and privatizing, Medicare for those under 55.

But of course, after Democrats shot down the budget, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee unveiled a web ad that said seniors will have to pay $12,500 more for healthcare “because Republicans voted to end Medicare.” However, PolitiFact writes:

After two years of being pounded by Republicans with often false charges about the 2010 health care law, the Democrats were turning the tables.

PolitiFact debunked the Medicare charge in nine separate fact-checks rated False or Pants on Fire, most often in attacks leveled against Republican House members.

Now, PolitiFact has chosen the Democrats’ claim as the 2011 Lie of the Year.

[Wind Song]

Republicans vote for more oil subsidies, and more tax breaks for the top 1%, and refuse to cut military spending.

Read the Ryan plan for medicare in detail. His plan doubles the amount seniors pay for it.

Republicans are sounding more like traditional Eskimos. Let's send all those old people out on ice floes to die.

[fj1200]

Nice spin but Republicans plan to kill Medicare with a voucher system.

Why do you think seniors are not intelligent enough to make their own health plan decisions?

[fj1200]

Republicans vote for more oil subsidies, and more tax breaks for the top 1%, and refuse to cut military spending.

Read the Ryan plan for medicare in detail. His plan doubles the amount seniors pay for it.

You do understand the unfunded mandates built into Medicare as it stands now don't you? Why shouldn't seniors pay for the HC that they receive?

[Wind Song]

Why do you think seniors are not intelligent enough to make their own health plan decisions?

Yes, I think they're smart enough to know when they're getting screwed.

[fj1200]

Republicans are sounding more like traditional Eskimos. Let's send all those old people out on ice floes to die.

Why don't you think that your position is strong enough to stand on its own that you feel the need to engage in harmful rhetoric like that? If you think your position has merit defend it.

[Wind Song]

You do understand the unfunded mandates built into Medicare as it stands now don't you? Why shouldn't seniors pay for the HC that they receive?

You do understand that Congress has been ripping off the SS trust fund for decades, don't you? Do you understand that Bush tax cuts have contributed to the precarious state of our economy.

[fj1200]

Yes, I think they're smart enough to know when they're getting screwed.

But not smart enough to make intelligent HC decisions? Why should tax rates be continually raised on the working class to subsidize the leisure of our seniors?

[Wind Song]

But not smart enough to make intelligent HC decisions? Why should tax rates be continually raised on the working class to subsidize the leisure of our seniors?

Why should the SS trust fund be ripped off to pay for other programs? Want old people to die sooner? Is that it?

[fj1200]

You do understand that Congress has been ripping off the SS trust fund for decades, don't you? Do you understand that Bush tax cuts have contributed to the precarious state of our economy.

Sure, throwing SS premiums into general revenue happened under LBJ, Medicare at the same time... coincidence? That's really not the issue you brought up now is it? How did the Bush cuts do that?

[fj1200]

Why should the SS trust fund be ripped off to pay for other programs? Want old people to die sooner? Is that it?

It shouldn't. Why do you feel the need to demonize the position that you create for me? Have I said that they should die sooner?

[DragonStryk72]

Nice spin but Republicans plan to kill Medicare with a voucher system.

Okay, here's some non-spin: Medicare doesn't work. It hasn't worked for years, and since any time anyone so much as touches it to try and make it workable again they get crucified for "wanting to kill Granny", nothing gets done, screwing over tons of seniors.

My mom was a home health aid, I've seen what the end of the line looks like, and you would not believe the sheer degree of insanity that goes on in Medicare. People who are not supposed to be getting covered do, and people who are supposed to be get denied.

So, do you have a plan to save Medicare?

[DragonStryk72]

Republicans vote for more oil subsidies, and more tax breaks for the top 1%, and refuse to cut military spending.

You mean while we have two large scale military conflicts, the Republicans think it might be a good idea to sustain funding to the people fighting that war? Oh yeah, and it's not military spending you're complaining, it defense spending which is a much bigger umbrella and where a lot of abuses are occurring right now.

Read the Ryan plan for medicare in detail. His plan doubles the amount seniors pay for it.

Because the current model of what they're paying is not sustainable. Medicare's been broke for a long time, and no one is allowed to fix it, so what precisely do you expect?

Republicans are sounding more like traditional Eskimos. Let's send all those old people out on ice floes to die.

Thank you for destroying your own credibility with the last sentence there. Yes, clearly the republicans, the majority of which are old, want to kill all the old people. I'm certain you are 100% correct that the old folks of the republican party want to kill all the old people. I get beyond sick of this sort of Bullshit that gets tossed around.

[fj1200]

Okay, here's some non-spin: Medicare doesn't work.

It's riddled with fraud which has its roots in bad legislation which mandates payment with little regard to validating whether the procedures/devices are even medically necessary. The worst aspect of it however, from a market based perspective, is that it completely divorces the users of Medicare from those who pay for it. When you have no regard to the cost then you have no regard in using its resources efficiently. That in a nutshell is the worst case scenario for any "socialist" based system and why they are ultimately doomed to fail.

[logroller]

Why do you think seniors are not intelligent enough to make their own health plan decisions?

Because she, like many, choose to take the blue pill FJ. People are scared of what lies in the depths of the rabbit hole, the Wonderland of freedom; preferring instead the comforts of mediocrity and the bliss of ignorance.

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/01/61/30/1613069_36a2c5fb.jpg

[logroller]

So, do you have a plan to save Medicare?
Policitally or fiscally?

Politically, it goes like this. First, you have to create a medical care system which is so heavily regulated that inefficient public providers can compete with private providers. Check.

Second, reduce people's ability to pay healthcare on their own, structurally, through increased unemployment and undermined investment returns. Check.

Third, pass legislation which would make private non-participation in the funding of healthcare punishable. Check.

Fourth, and most importantly, convince the public that the free markets fail because government involvement wasn't enough before, and enlargement of govt provided healthcare is the only viable solution. Chec....almost.

Fiscally, just print more money, repeat.

[ConHog]

House Republicans passed a version of Rep. Paul Ryan’s “Roadmap” as their budget for 2011. In addition to its draconian cuts to a constellation of different social services, the GOP budget added a series of “reforms” to Medicare, which were presented as a means to “save” the program.

In reality, Republicans had crafted a voucher program whose value was so low that, seniors would have to pay the bulk of their medical costs out of pocket. And while Republicans could credibly claim to have reduced Medicare spending with their reforms, it wasn’t through any mechanism that reduced the overall rate of health care spending in the economy. Rather, Republicans would “save” universal health insurance for seniors by dismantling it.

The simple fact is that Medicare—regardless of your thoughts on the value of the program—is a system of comprehensive universal health insurance for seniors.
To keep Medicare, Medicare, you have to maintain that basic principle. The program passed by House Republicans was designed to end the universality of Medicare by sharply reducing its benefits to seniors, and leaving them to fend for themselves.

Question.

If EVERYONE is covered by Obamacare, as has been told us several times, then why do the elderly need their own program?

[jimnyc]

Why should the SS trust fund be ripped off to pay for other programs? Want old people to die sooner? Is that it?

Why do liberals live off of rhetoric and emotion? I see no links from you in this thread and ZERO facts, nothing more than rhetoric, lies, distortion and claims made out of emotion that have no basis in fact.

[MtnBiker]

Well, republicans also want dirty air.

and;

They want childern to go hungry and have no school lunch program.

They want the earth to warm to extreme temperatures.

Republicans want old people to eat Alpo.

Republicans want hate crimes to be committed against minorities.

Republicans want to increase logging and deforrest our national parks.

They want to make the voting poll a place of discrimination and disenfranchment.

Republicans want big oil to pollute fresh water aquifiers.

Republicans want rich people to take money from poor people.

Republicans want our military to take other nations resources.

They want hurricanes to increase in frequency and magnatude.

That includes some of the propaganda that liberals would like to be repeated long enough that hopefully everybody will believe.


yummmm, dirty air

[fj1200]

Why do liberals live off of rhetoric and emotion? I see no links from you in this thread and ZERO facts, nothing more than rhetoric, lies, distortion and claims made out of emotion that have no basis in fact.

Call me cynical but are you paying WS to flame and run? :poke:

[ConHog]

Call me cynical but are you paying WS to flame and run? :poke:



Hell no, this is just her hobby that she does for free, her job is militant lesbian.:laugh2:

[jimnyc]

Call me cynical but are you paying WS to flame and run? :poke:

Hmmmmm... getting paid to troll? If such a position exists, I will find it, master it, and get rich! :coffee:

I just wish the libs would debate with articles, facts and THEN off their opinions on that. Too many just listen to the loonies and run with the information. If it were based on facts, it would be here in black and white for all to see and no one would be able to argue with WS. But she just says shit like republicans want people to die, because it's easier than actually proving a point. I'm sure she also believes what she writes, which is even scarier.

[ConHog]

Hmmmmm... getting paid to troll? If such a position exists, I will find it, master it, and get rich! :coffee:

I just wish the libs would debate with articles, facts and THEN off their opinions on that. Too many just listen to the loonies and run with the information. If it were based on facts, it would be here in black and white for all to see and no one would be able to argue with WS. But she just says shit like republicans want people to die, because it's easier than actually proving a point. I'm sure she also believes what she writes, which is even scarier.

When I was over at the other board, it was pretty well accepted as gospel that TM and RDean and a few other poster of that ilk were paid posters. Who knows for sure.