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View Full Version : Mandatory Military - Should we have it?



shattered
05-17-2007, 04:01 PM
Stripey and I are having a ...disagreement about starting a Mandatory Military, wherein *everyone* is required to join, and serve - front lines included. Male, female.. Everyone. Do you agree, or disagree? Why?

I disagree. I don't want someone that was forced to join responsible for protecting my ass in a critical situation. Would you want someone that was forced to join responsible for protecting the back of you, or your child that *chose* to join?

darin
05-17-2007, 04:03 PM
Yup - Males from HS Graduation, for a period of 30 months, should be obligated to serve in the armed forces.

shattered
05-17-2007, 04:13 PM
Yup - Males from HS Graduation, for a period of 30 months, should be obligated to serve in the armed forces.

Mandatory means everyone, D.. Male, female.. Front lines and all.. Still for it?

darin
05-17-2007, 04:19 PM
Mandatory means everyone, D.. Male, female.. Front lines and all.. Still for it?

Only Males. Front lines and all. :)

shattered
05-17-2007, 04:20 PM
Only Males. Front lines and all. :)

So..you're not 100% for it. :D

darin
05-17-2007, 04:40 PM
So..you're not 100% for it. :D

For Males. I'll amend that comment by saying:

"For Males or people raised by Liberals."

:)

LiberalNation
05-17-2007, 04:44 PM
No way. Not unless our country is being invaded. You don't get good quality from people forced against their will to do a job anyway.

darin
05-17-2007, 04:49 PM
No way. Not unless our country is being invaded. You don't get good quality from people forced against their will to do a job anyway.

Says who? MANY good soldiers in 'Nam were drafted. I've worked with MANY VERY VERY VERY Good soldiers from Conscript-Army nations (Germany and Korea to name two).

You're afraid. It's normal.

shattered
05-17-2007, 04:56 PM
Says who? MANY good soldiers in 'Nam were drafted. I've worked with MANY VERY VERY VERY Good soldiers from Conscript-Army nations (Germany and Korea to name two).

You're afraid. It's normal.

Morals and a sense of responsibility aren't what they were even 10 years ago... To institute a draft today would bring a world of headache, I'm betting..

Monkeybone
05-17-2007, 05:07 PM
i see nothing against having to serve 2 years right after HS. i don't think it should be mandatory front lines, just keep the normal rules now, where you can be disqualified for sex. will give ppl jobs, and some college. those that like it can stay and those that don't can not re-up and then they leave with some schooling in something they wanna do or keep using the GI Bill

Dilloduck
05-17-2007, 05:09 PM
Morals and a sense of responsibility aren't what they were even 10 years ago... To institute a draft today would bring a world of headache, I'm betting..

Agreed---the last thing I want to hear from a soldier is him whining that he didn't want to go to war and doesn't believe in the cause. Nip all that shit in the bud.

shattered
05-17-2007, 05:14 PM
I'm curious as to why everyone is voting FOR Mandatory Military, yet putting conditions on it.. The "conditions" were clearly outlined in the OP.. I'll reiterate.

Mandatory for both male and female alike.
Mandatory front lines for both male and female alike.

Not mandatory, with the exception of ....

Mandatory.

Seems to me, you're not for it, but voted that you are..

CockySOB
05-17-2007, 05:17 PM
I'm not for mandatory military service, but I would be all for mandatory civil service terms of 4-6 years, and military service could be an option for those who preferred it.

Dilloduck
05-17-2007, 05:20 PM
I'm curious as to why everyone is voting FOR Mandatory Military, yet putting conditions on it.. The "conditions" were clearly outlined in the OP.. I'll reiterate.

Mandatory for both male and female alike.
Mandatory front lines for both male and female alike.

Not mandatory, with the exception of ....

Mandatory.

Seems to me, you're not for it, but voted that you are..

ooooops--can I have a "do over" ? Don't want ya to lose you 50 cents on account of me ! :laugh2:

shattered
05-17-2007, 05:24 PM
ooooops--can I have a "do over" ? Don't want ya to lose you 50 cents on account of me ! :laugh2:

I'm confused. 4 people voted FOR it, 2 haven't posted their reasons yet.. The other two placed "other" conditions on it, when the conditions were clearly outlined. Obviously, if they don't agree with it as stated, then they don't agree with it, and should have selected such. :death: Bad children.

Monkeybone
05-17-2007, 05:26 PM
i think the thought of mandatory front lines is a ridiculous idea, not everyone was meant for it. the 100 lbs girl will have trouble keeping up with that 200 lbs guy lugging all their gear and weapons.there are plenty of jobs without beig on the front line

i think that serving in the military would do alot of ppl good, specially the ones that think they deserve everything, had stuff handed to them, and basically don't know how to fend for themselves. instead of sending them away where they will learn the hard way and either cope, suceed, or fail...you put them some where that they will teach them.

shattered
05-17-2007, 05:27 PM
i think the thought of mandatory front lines is a ridiculous idea, not everyone was meant for it. the 100 lbs girl will have trouble keeping up with that 200 lbs guy lugging all their gear and weapons.there are plenty of jobs without beig on the front line

i think that serving in the military would do alot of ppl good, specially the ones that think they deserve everything, had stuff handed to them, and basically don't know how to fend for themselves. instead of sending them away where they will learn the hard way and either cope, suceed, or fail...you put them some where that they will teach them.

So is that the type of person you want responsible for guardiing your back? Someone that doesn't want to be there? Someone that's got a bit of resentment built up because he's forced to be there? Or, would you rather it be someone that has their own sense of honor, WANTS to be there, and wants to giive it their all?

Monkeybone
05-17-2007, 05:30 PM
i agree with you there. one volunteer is worth ten forced ppl...or something like that.

Mr. P
05-17-2007, 05:34 PM
Stripey and I are having a ...disagreement about starting a Mandatory Military, wherein *everyone* is required to join, and serve - front lines included. Male, female.. Everyone. Do you agree, or disagree? Why?

I disagree. I don't want someone that was forced to join responsible for protecting my ass in a critical situation. Would you want someone that was forced to join responsible for protecting the back of you, or your child that *chose* to join?

I am not for any Mandatory service, be it Military or Peace corp.

The second we have "Mandatory" for any service we become indentured an therefore not free.

I think I know Stripeys angle. If it's mandatory more of the public will be vocal about what actions we take outside of the USA. If we were isolationist that works, fact is we are not. The people don't call the shots on a daily basis the 'elected' office holders do. The option is to vote for those who run things to your liking instead of giving the Government the power to force you to server them. That's My 2 cents.

typomaniac
05-17-2007, 05:50 PM
Mandatory means everyone, ... Male, female.. Front lines and all.. Still for it?I'm assuming you mean that the military keeps its existing rules about what combat-related jobs men and women are allowed to do. I'm also assuming you mean that the military keeps its existing rules about who gets disqualified under the 4-F classification. If you don't try to weasel out of those, I'd say thumbs-up to the idea. Nothing at all wrong with a year or two in the service before college.

Missileman
05-17-2007, 06:01 PM
Stripey and I are having a ...disagreement about starting a Mandatory Military, wherein *everyone* is required to join, and serve - front lines included. Male, female.. Everyone. Do you agree, or disagree? Why?

I disagree. I don't want someone that was forced to join responsible for protecting my ass in a critical situation. Would you want someone that was forced to join responsible for protecting the back of you, or your child that *chose* to join?

Disagree! Making everyone serve would only lower the overall quality of the force.

nevadamedic
05-17-2007, 06:19 PM
Disagree! Making everyone serve would only lower the overall quality of the force.

Not true, since they dont want to be there they would do everything in their power to make it back home, that is strong motivation in a war.

nevadamedic
05-17-2007, 06:21 PM
I would have gone directly in right after High School but medical reasons kept me out.

Missileman
05-17-2007, 06:27 PM
Not true, since they dont want to be there they would do everything in their power to make it back home, that is strong motivation in a war.

They would do everything in their power to avoid doing what needed to be done. A massive influx of poorly-motivated, illiterate, and unscrupulous idiots is the LAST thing I'd wish on our honorable military members.

typomaniac
05-17-2007, 06:29 PM
I would have gone directly in right after High School but medical reasons kept me out.Physical or mental problems? :poke:

Guernicaa
05-17-2007, 07:49 PM
Mandatory millitary does not fit in a "free society"...

nevadamedic
05-17-2007, 07:53 PM
Physical or mental problems? :poke:

Not that it is any of your business but I walked in on my best friend of 18 years after he shot himself in the head. Seeing your best friends brain matter all over a wall really fucks someone up.

Nukeman
05-17-2007, 08:43 PM
Mandatory millitary does not fit in a "free society"...But it might just give all a better idea of what is involved with keeping a society FREE.:salute:

Maybe than some wouldnt be so quick to dismiss the military out of hand and do nothing to support them. I have seen a lot of people post on this board and others, and all they do is belittle the military and our troops. They have nothing good to say, Gabs, for one on this board. I think all of them could do with a good dose of mandatory military experience just to understand what they hate so much.

shattered
05-17-2007, 08:44 PM
But it might just give all a better idea of what is involved with keeping a society FREE.:salute:

Maybe than some wouldnt be so quick to dismiss the military out of hand and do nothing to support them. I have seen a lot of people pos ton this board and others and all they do is belittle the military and our troops. They have nothing good to say, Gabs for one on this board. I think all of them could do with a good dose of mandatory military experience just to understand what they hate so much.

You're failing to keep in mind just what kind of "service" you'd get out of someone LIKE Gabo.. It bears repeating.. Do you *really* want her guarding your back in tense situations?

Nukeman
05-17-2007, 08:46 PM
You're failing to keep in mind just what kind of "service" you'd get out of someone LIKE Gabo.. It bears repeating.. Do you *really* want her guarding your back in tense situations?With her big ass mouth she would be one of the first getting a bullet. (one less for me):laugh2:

shattered
05-17-2007, 08:48 PM
With her big ass mouth she would be one of the first getting a bullet. (one less for me):laugh2:

My guess is you'd want someone willing to shoot *first* - not stand there flapping their gums.

Nukeman
05-17-2007, 08:49 PM
You're failing to keep in mind just what kind of "service" you'd get out of someone LIKE Gabo.. It bears repeating.. Do you *really* want her guarding your back in tense situations?
You are also failing to realize the type of service that would be EXPECTED of them as well. They would not be put on the front lines untill they proved themselves capable. We have millions of military personal in the brancehs of the military most are not in open combat situations so the choice of wether or not to place them on the front lines would still be made those who want or dont want them.

Loud mouths make great targets for the enemy....:poke:

shattered
05-17-2007, 09:02 PM
You are also failing to realize the type of service that would be EXPECTED of them as well. They would not be put on the front lines untill they proved themselves capable. We have millions of military personal in the brancehs of the military most are not in open combat situations so the choice of wether or not to place them on the front lines would still be made those who want or dont want them.

Loud mouths make great targets for the enemy....:poke:

Eh, maybe, but.. I'd still be too worried about what they're going to screw up next.. Best to just keep them far, far away.

gabosaurus
05-18-2007, 01:37 AM
I know a lot of you have a military fetish, but to impose mandatory service is beyond ridiculous. Mandatory service would allow future Bush-inspired war criminals to start their own conflicts and reap the benefits from such.
Not to mention the fact that, as in Vietnam, the rich and well-connected would still find a way to avoid service.

The U.S. military is fine as it is. If there was ever another genuine war, once which the country was actually threatened (as opposed to us doing the threatening), there would be no shortage of volunteers.
The current threat to the military is the continued lies and deception of the current military brass. "Come see the world! Get an education! Become a man! ..well, maybe, after we send you to fight a war in which we started."

There is no reason for the U.S. to have mandatory military service. Except perhaps to appease those who enjoyed their time, and want to see everyone have to do the same.

stephanie
05-18-2007, 01:46 AM
I know a lot of you have a military fetish, but to impose mandatory service is beyond ridiculous. Mandatory service would allow future Bush-inspired war criminals to start their own conflicts and reap the benefits from such.
Not to mention the fact that, as in Vietnam, the rich and well-connected would still find a way to avoid service.

The U.S. military is fine as it is. If there was ever another genuine war, once which the country was actually threatened (as opposed to us doing the threatening), there would be no shortage of volunteers.
The current threat to the military is the continued lies and deception of the current military brass. "Come see the world! Get an education! Become a man! ..well, maybe, after we send you to fight a war in which we started."

There is no reason for the U.S. to have mandatory military service. Except perhaps to appease those who enjoyed their time, and want to see everyone have to do the same.

Gabs...if you really believe that the military of today, feels they are being lied to......Why are they still enlisting in record numbers...
Why aren't they defecting their duty???

And a lot of them... probably have as much education as you do..

Another thing....I think some military service....would be good for you...Just so you get a better idea, of what they actually have to go through...:coffee:

chum43
05-18-2007, 02:08 AM
I'm with shattered on this one. You really don't want people who don't want to be there. It's the epitome of a situation where you can't go half way, it doesn't matter what capacity they are in, if they don't want to be there or hold a grudge against the government for forcing them to be there it's a bad thing. It's risky enough with all the people that go in just for the money or because they have no other real option, but at least then they know what they are in for and decide to go for it. On the other hand I really can't understand why the military turns anyone down. This "well stick 'em somewhere, even if it's not combative" attitude should be shifted to the people the military turn away. Mandatory, bad idea... anyone can sign up, good idea. That would at least partially help whatever problem it is that mandatory service is supposed to solve. I'm not sure what those are but it's a better step.

manu1959
05-18-2007, 02:14 AM
I know a lot of you have a military fetish, but to impose mandatory service is beyond ridiculous. Mandatory service would allow future Bush-inspired war criminals to start their own conflicts and reap the benefits from such.
Not to mention the fact that, as in Vietnam, the rich and well-connected would still find a way to avoid service.

The U.S. military is fine as it is. If there was ever another genuine war, once which the country was actually threatened (as opposed to us doing the threatening), there would be no shortage of volunteers.
The current threat to the military is the continued lies and deception of the current military brass. "Come see the world! Get an education! Become a man! ..well, maybe, after we send you to fight a war in which we started."

There is no reason for the U.S. to have mandatory military service. Except perhaps to appease those who enjoyed their time, and want to see everyone have to do the same.

do you know which countries in the world have mandatory military service?

http://www.c3.hu/~farkashe/english/countries.htm

do you know which ones are by draft and which ones are at the point of a gun?

5stringJeff
05-18-2007, 11:41 AM
I am not for any Mandatory service, be it Military or Peace corp.

The second we have "Mandatory" for any service we become indentured an therefore not free.

I think I know Stripeys angle. If it's mandatory more of the public will be vocal about what actions we take outside of the USA. If we were isolationist that works, fact is we are not. The people don't call the shots on a daily basis the 'elected' office holders do. The option is to vote for those who run things to your liking instead of giving the Government the power to force you to server them. That's My 2 cents.

This is my opinion exactly. We are a free people, who can choose to serve in the military. Service without choice is slavery.

gabosaurus
05-18-2007, 11:55 AM
I'm not interested in how other countries do it. I am interested how the U.S. does it. What else should we make "mandatory" for each person? Perhaps work on roads, or do community service? How about we take all the wealthy, pampered children away from their ipods and video games and make them clean the roadsides for a certain number of hours?
Those who did not learn the lessons of Viet Nam are doomed to repeat them.

Doniston
05-18-2007, 12:34 PM
No way. Not unless our country is being invaded. You don't get good quality from people forced against their will to do a job anyway. I voted FOR mandatory service, but not necessarily Military service. Rather service to their country. With deferrment until after graduation, where resonable.

Doniston
05-18-2007, 12:39 PM
I'm confused. 4 people voted FOR it, 2 haven't posted their reasons yet.. The other two placed "other" conditions on it, when the conditions were clearly outlined. Obviously, if they don't agree with it as stated, then they don't agree with it, and should have selected such. :death: Bad children. People don't Always follow your ORDERS. They have minds of their own, and are not necessarily subject to manipulation or unreasonable limitations.

Hagbard Celine
05-18-2007, 12:44 PM
I voted for mandatory service. A hired service is a mercenary service. If service were mandatory, our leaders would think a lot harder about sending their sons and daughters into harm's way.

*Not to mention the good that military discipline would do for this country if all citizens had to go through it.

Mr. P
05-18-2007, 12:48 PM
I voted for mandatory service. A hired service is a mercenary service. If service were mandatory, our leaders would think a lot harder about sending their sons and daughters into harm's way.

*Not to mention the good that military discipline would do for this country if all citizens had to go through it.

Well then if that's how you feel you're ready to enlist, great! I'll drive you to the nearest recruiter. :salute:

chum43
05-18-2007, 12:53 PM
I voted for mandatory service. A hired service is a mercenary service. If service were mandatory, our leaders would think a lot harder about sending their sons and daughters into harm's way.

*Not to mention the good that military discipline would do for this country if all citizens had to go through it.

you must be joking... you believe they would think harder? don't you understand that important people have ways around anything. If nothing else an almost infinite amount of resources would bring our leaders to be more careless, not more careful.

As for it being a good thing for our citizens to go through, I agree, but only to a certain point. There are many strong willed people out there who thrive in such a situation and many of them do so voluntarily, but there are also a lot of pushovers out there that would only succumb to the minor brainwashing that goes on in the military. Haven't you ever met a soldier and thought, this walking robot shouldn't be allowed back into society until he's deprogrammed... well luckily the way it is now that's the minority of people who serve, another fear of mine would be that would become the majority if it were mandatory.

Mr. P
05-18-2007, 12:58 PM
you must be joking... you believe they would think harder? don't you understand that important people have ways around anything. If nothing else an almost infinite amount of resources would bring our leaders to be more careless, not more careful.

As for it being a good thing for our citizens to go through, I agree, but only to a certain point. There are many strong willed people out there who thrive in such a situation and many of them do so voluntarily, but there are also a lot of pushovers out there that would only succumb to the minor brainwashing that goes on in the military. Haven't you ever met a soldier and thought, this walking robot shouldn't be allowed back into society until he's deprogrammed... well luckily the way it is now that's the minority of people who serve, another fear of mine would be that would become the majority if it were mandatory.

How long did you serve, Chum?

chum43
05-18-2007, 01:13 PM
2 and a half years... needless to say I was essentially kicked out.

Hagbard Celine
05-18-2007, 01:16 PM
you must be joking... you believe they would think harder? don't you understand that important people have ways around anything. If nothing else an almost infinite amount of resources would bring our leaders to be more careless, not more careful.

As for it being a good thing for our citizens to go through, I agree, but only to a certain point. There are many strong willed people out there who thrive in such a situation and many of them do so voluntarily, but there are also a lot of pushovers out there that would only succumb to the minor brainwashing that goes on in the military. Haven't you ever met a soldier and thought, this walking robot shouldn't be allowed back into society until he's deprogrammed... well luckily the way it is now that's the minority of people who serve, another fear of mine would be that would become the majority if it were mandatory.

The Swiss do it. They seem ok to me :dunno:

chum43
05-18-2007, 01:21 PM
I'm not arguing that it can't work... under the right circumstances it can work, but i'd probably still be against... the point is it won't simply solve a problem because it includes everyone.

Mr. P
05-18-2007, 01:29 PM
I'm not arguing that it can't work... under the right circumstances it can work, but i'd probably still be against... the point is it won't simply solve a problem because it includes everyone.

Exactly. The US military is as good as it is because they do have selection/enlistment standards. To eliminate the standards by accepting everyone would degrade the overall quality of forces. IMO.

glockmail
05-18-2007, 02:24 PM
We should have mandatory 2 year service. It would boost the number of those that pass muster and volunteer for active duty. Those that don't want active duty would work supply lines like many private contractors now do. Others would enforce the border and build/ maintain domestic infrastruture. The low life would sweep floors and maybe not be such fat slobs. Those that refuse to work can pick up trask or go to prison- their choice.

Hagbard Celine
05-18-2007, 03:13 PM
The low life would sweep floors and maybe not be such fat slobs. Those that refuse to work can pick up trask or go to prison- their choice.
Or not be allowed to vote, use government services, etc.

nevadamedic
05-18-2007, 03:18 PM
But it might just give all a better idea of what is involved with keeping a society FREE.:salute:

Maybe than some wouldnt be so quick to dismiss the military out of hand and do nothing to support them. I have seen a lot of people post on this board and others, and all they do is belittle the military and our troops. They have nothing good to say, Gabs, for one on this board. I think all of them could do with a good dose of mandatory military experience just to understand what they hate so much.

:clap:

glockmail
05-18-2007, 03:19 PM
Or not be allowed to vote, use government services, etc. Don't think that would be constitutional. Lets just get rid of ALL government entitlements.

chum43
05-18-2007, 03:27 PM
I'm all for military service, but just because it's a good thing doesn't mean it's a good thing to force people to do it. Besides all the other points about quality and such how the hell is taking away someones freedom giving them a good idea of how a society stays free?... sounds more like you want to show them who is boss.

Nienna
05-18-2007, 03:31 PM
Who posted the idea of mandatory civil service, but not necessarily military? That seems like a good idea; maybe would teach people to invest themselves in this country.

I don't think military service should be mandatory, as long as we have the manpower to defend the nation with volunteers. However, I think all young men should volunteer out of high school. I think women should be allowed to volunteer in auxiliary units, but not on the front lines. Women are physically weaker than men, provide sexual distraction, and have the added risk of being raped if captured. However, there are a lot of technical or desk jobs in the military, as well as medical units, etc, that would be appropriate for women.

glockmail
05-18-2007, 03:33 PM
I'm all for military service, but just because it's a good thing doesn't mean it's a good thing to force people to do it. Besides all the other points about quality and such how the hell is taking away someones freedom giving them a good idea of how a society stays free?... sounds more like you want to show them who is boss.

Yes, you are right. Make it mandatory government service then. Only the finest will be given the opportunity to serve our great military. Others can serve in the Peace Corps, or other duties that I have noted previously. Perhaps we can instill the love of counrtry and hatred of government that our founding fathers had in some of our youth.

chum43
05-18-2007, 03:45 PM
mandatory government service isn't a bad idea, but personally, if i'm still paying these hefty taxes year in and year out, there is no way in hell i'm adding free service to the things I give the government... as it stands now, all the ridiculous taxes we pay now is the de facto mandatory service... sure it's a little of topic, but for me if the government gave me the option to work off some taxes or replaced some taxes with mandatory service you might be on to something. The problem is that wouldn't happen, they'd just throw it on top.

glockmail
05-18-2007, 04:03 PM
mandatory government service isn't a bad idea, but personally, if i'm still paying these hefty taxes year in and year out, there is no way in hell i'm adding free service to the things I give the government... as it stands now, all the ridiculous taxes we pay now is the de facto mandatory service... sure it's a little of topic, but for me if the government gave me the option to work off some taxes or replaced some taxes with mandatory service you might be on to something. The problem is that wouldn't happen, they'd just throw it on top.

If we cut out all entitlements we cold easily pay salaries for all these mandatory servants.

Doniston
05-18-2007, 04:16 PM
Who posted the idea of mandatory civil service, but not necessarily military? That seems like a good idea; maybe would teach people to invest themselves in this country.

I don't think military service should be mandatory, as long as we have the manpower to defend the nation with volunteers. However, I think all young men should volunteer out of high school. I think women should be allowed to volunteer in auxiliary units, but not on the front lines. Women are physically weaker than men, provide sexual distraction, and have the added risk of being raped if captured. However, there are a lot of technical or desk jobs in the military, as well as medical units, etc, that would be appropriate for women. I don't know if you meant me, But I did suggest it. It seems to me it is the least a good citizen could do. and as I stated. it could be either before or after final education takes place.

Hagbard Celine
05-18-2007, 04:20 PM
mandatory government service isn't a bad idea, but personally, if i'm still paying these hefty taxes year in and year out, there is no way in hell i'm adding free service to the things I give the government... as it stands now, all the ridiculous taxes we pay now is the de facto mandatory service... sure it's a little of topic, but for me if the government gave me the option to work off some taxes or replaced some taxes with mandatory service you might be on to something. The problem is that wouldn't happen, they'd just throw it on top.

Who's talking about "free service?" I was under the impression that mandatory service would still be paid service :dunno:

5stringJeff
05-18-2007, 04:20 PM
Mandatory government service... good for the Soviets, good for you!!!

avatar4321
05-18-2007, 04:48 PM
Im indifferent, atleast when it comes to the men. I think alot of men would benefit from it. I think requiring the women to be a part of the military is a bad idea. Maybe im just an old fashion type of guy but i dont like the fact that our men have to go out and fight let alone making our women fight too.

Gaffer
05-18-2007, 04:52 PM
I'm against mandatory military service. Conscripts do not make great soldiers. They will do what they have to but they are just putting in the time they are required to do.

The only time a draft should be needed is when there are more troops needed for a war situation than they can posibly get in volunteers. In todays world quanity is not needed. Quality is. You get quality with an all volunteer force and high standards.

People like stripy want manditory service so that there is then a class in the military that can be used as victims of the government. That would be the only purpose for such a program. An all volunteer force eliminates the victim class so they cannot be used.

No draft should ever be enacted unless congress declares war. Not just funding a presidents war, but actually having the balls to declare it. If they can't do that then a draft isn't necessary.

chum43
05-18-2007, 05:44 PM
I don't know, that was just me assuming that if something was mandatory they wouldn't go ahead and pay you too... even paid I don't like the idea of it as an addon to taxes, there would have to be a trade off for me to be behind it... and if it's mandatory military service I still say no way.

Yurt
05-18-2007, 06:14 PM
A mandatory military service just doesn't pass the test. It is too "big brother" for me. The military indoctrinates you to think a certain way. Nothing wrong with that, soldiers/officers need to be trained to be militarily proficient. In many graduate programs they often break down your way of thinking, so that you may think like the "graduate" is supposed to. One perfect example is lawschool.

I have a problem with anyone forcing me to change my thinking, unless I consent. The military will inevitably do just that. I want to say, the military is not bad, just the opposite, but forced servitude for any amount of time will have drastice repercussions accross this country that thrives on following your "own" dream...

IMHO

Yurt
05-18-2007, 06:16 PM
Im indifferent, atleast when it comes to the men. I think alot of men would benefit from it. I think requiring the women to be a part of the military is a bad idea. Maybe im just an old fashion type of guy but i dont like the fact that our men have to go out and fight let alone making our women fight too.

I don't think you are indifferent then.

shattered
05-18-2007, 09:49 PM
People don't Always follow your ORDERS. They have minds of their own, and are not necessarily subject to manipulation or unreasonable limitations.

Then WTF did you vote in the poll for, if the options weren't "acceptable" to you?

I can't believe your level of stupidity manages to increase every day..

On the other hand, I can't believe this surprises me.

Pale Rider
05-19-2007, 12:26 AM
I'm all for it. Two years, right after high school. The military makes men out of boys, and would make women out of little girls, like LN. It builds character, and teaches you to stand on your own two feet. Maybe if we had mandatory military, we wouldn't have so many damn whinny anti-American liberals.

badger
05-19-2007, 02:55 AM
I would support mandatory civil service (with the military being an option) for both men and women. The civil service option could include Vista, Katrina cleanup, etc. Not sure about the mandatory timeframe...maybe 18 months (although the military option should probably be longer). There should be some exemptions; especially for women with children.

nevadamedic
05-19-2007, 03:02 AM
Then WTF did you vote in the poll for, if the options weren't "acceptable" to you?

I can't believe your level of stupidity manages to increase every day..

On the other hand, I can't believe this surprises me.

Umm how old are you? Shouldn't you respect your elders?:poke:

shattered
05-19-2007, 05:41 AM
Umm how old are you? Shouldn't you respect your elders?:poke:

:smoke:

Doniston
05-19-2007, 11:57 AM
Then WTF did you vote in the poll for, if the options weren't "acceptable" to you?

I can't believe your level of stupidity manages to increase every day..

On the other hand, I can't believe this surprises me.

1. Because it is a "public" forum, and I like others (as shown by the results) o not follow your orders, and we are "ENTITLED" to respond

2. Then don't -- your comments aren't valid anyway, In spite of the bad reps you send.

3. That's funny, considering the stupidity you post as a Sig, Do you really think that would Bug me? I have a similar one, but mine is political Your's is simply spitful and shows me just what kind of a person you really are.

EDITED: Yes, I see that you have finally removed that Sig line. But you continue the attack in the body of your post. "Big dif" Not.

shattered
05-19-2007, 08:45 PM
1. Because it is a "public" forum, and I like others (as shown by the results) o not follow your orders, and we are "ENTITLED" to respond

2. Then don't -- your comments aren't valid anyway, In spite of the bad reps you send.

3. That's funny, considering the stupidity you post as a Sig, Do you really think that would Bug me? I have a similar one, but mine is political Your's is simply spitful and shows me just what kind of a person you really are.

EDITED: Yes, I see that you have finally removed that Sig line. But you continue the attack in the body of your post. "Big dif" Not.

I removed the sig long before you opened your trap about it, in favor of one far more interesting and humorous.

Please smarten up.

Doniston
05-22-2007, 01:45 PM
I removed the sig long before you opened your trap about it, in favor of one far more interesting and humorous.

Please smarten up. To a female who has the mouth of a drunken barbary salior, I am sure it is interesting and humorous . I wonder how the rest of th forum feels about it.

and I wasn't about to speak of that particular idiocy until you HAD removed it.

TheStripey1
05-23-2007, 07:58 PM
Stripey and I are having a ...disagreement about starting a Mandatory Military, wherein *everyone* is required to join, and serve - front lines included. Male, female.. Everyone. Do you agree, or disagree? Why?

I disagree. I don't want someone that was forced to join responsible for protecting my ass in a critical situation. Would you want someone that was forced to join responsible for protecting the back of you, or your child that *chose* to join?

That's not quite what I said... I'm in favor of establishing a Mandatory Military Service for ALL, that's true. With the stipulation that the children of the executive branch, the legislative branches serving in front line units. So when president and congress sends everyone elses' children off to war with the chance that they might not return in the same condition that they went, they will know what it feels like. When their child comes home in a box, they will know what it feels like.

Personally, I long for the days when the leaders of a country actually led his military into battle. hasn't been that way for years... nay decades... centuries perhaps...

In my MMSfA, those that had only the worst of physical disabilities would be exempt. Everyone else could serve. You would serve between the ages of 18 and 25... yes, that's eight years... Four of those would be spent in the military and four with civilian service to prepare you for life among civilians.

In my MMSfA, if you did not serve in the military, you would receive NO citizen privileges... like a driver's license... or a bank loan... or sign a contract of any kind... or get a job... nope... you could live off your parents forever for all I care except, you do know, that your parents would lose you as a tax deduction once you turned 18 or graduated from high school which ever was earlier...

with MMSfA there would be no chickenhawks... none... and the peace movement would be enormous...

yeah, I know... there is no chance that any of this could come to pass... but I can dream, can't I?


*note... all YOUs are generalized yous... not specific you yous...

Dilloduck
05-23-2007, 08:07 PM
That's not quite what I said... I'm in favor of establishing a Mandatory Military Service for ALL, that's true. With the stipulation that the children of the executive branch, the legislative branches serving in front line units. So when president and congress sends everyone elses' children off to war with the chance that they might not return in the same condition that they went, they will know what it feels like. When their child comes home in a box, they will know what it feels like.

Personally, I long for the days when the leaders of a country actually led his military into battle. hasn't been that way for years... nay decades... centuries perhaps...

In my MMSfA, those that had only the worst of physical disabilities would be exempt. Everyone else could serve. You would serve between the ages of 18 and 25... yes, that's eight years... Four of those would be spent in the military and four with civilian service to prepare you for life among civilians.

In my MMSfA, if you did not serve in the military, you would receive NO citizen privileges... like a driver's license... or a bank loan... or sign a contract of any kind... or get a job... nope... you could live off your parents forever for all I care except, you do know, that your parents would lose you as a tax deduction once you turned 18 or graduated from high school which ever was earlier...

with MMSfA there would be no chickenhawks... none... and the peace movement would be enormous...

yeah, I know... there is no chance that any of this could come to pass... but I can dream, can't I?


*note... all YOUs are generalized yous... not specific you yous...

:laugh2: mercy---what a load of BS. Face it----you don't think ANYTHING is worth fighting for. What do you call that a "chicken dove" ? :laugh2:

Kathianne
05-23-2007, 08:10 PM
That's not quite what I said... I'm in favor of establishing a Mandatory Military Service for ALL, that's true. With the stipulation that the children of the executive branch, the legislative branches serving in front line units. So when president and congress sends everyone elses' children off to war with the chance that they might not return in the same condition that they went, they will know what it feels like. When their child comes home in a box, they will know what it feels like.

Personally, I long for the days when the leaders of a country actually led his military into battle. hasn't been that way for years... nay decades... centuries perhaps...

In my MMSfA, those that had only the worst of physical disabilities would be exempt. Everyone else could serve. You would serve between the ages of 18 and 25... yes, that's eight years... Four of those would be spent in the military and four with civilian service to prepare you for life among civilians.

In my MMSfA, if you did not serve in the military, you would receive NO citizen privileges... like a driver's license... or a bank loan... or sign a contract of any kind... or get a job... nope... you could live off your parents forever for all I care except, you do know, that your parents would lose you as a tax deduction once you turned 18 or graduated from high school which ever was earlier...

with MMSfA there would be no chickenhawks... none... and the peace movement would be enormous...

yeah, I know... there is no chance that any of this could come to pass... but I can dream, can't I?


*note... all YOUs are generalized yous... not specific you yous...

What a crock. Even if taken seriously, you are arguing that the fathers determine the fate of the sons. (In these pc times, allow for mothers/daughters and other configurations).

Dilloduck
05-23-2007, 08:14 PM
What a crock. Even if taken seriously, you are arguing that the fathers determine the fate of the sons. (In these pc times, allow for mothers/daughters and other configurations).

:laugh2: and everytime a congressman voted for a tax hike, he had to put his first born in escrow. :laugh2:

Gaffer
05-23-2007, 08:14 PM
stripy you been reading Heinlein recently? Your dream isn't feasible because there is no way to pay for it. You can't have everyone working for the government. It's a socialist dream you have there.

Psychoblues
05-28-2007, 04:29 AM
Front line Army and no disqualification due to gender, medical, hardship or political connection. If this country decides it is time to "get it on" then no holds barred. GET IT ON!!!!!! Given this, there would never have been the wars in Viet Nam or Iraq not to mention several other more insignificant skirmishes.

You want to talk about the unfairness of the draft? Talk to me. I'll tell you about it.