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View Full Version : Why is the US marriage rate falling sharply?



Shadow
01-09-2012, 10:35 AM
For the first time in memory, unmarried Americans will soon outnumber those who are married, according to the latest research. So is this a watershed moment?
At first glance it would appear that, in common with many Western countries, marriage is in terminal decline in the United States.
In 1960, 72% of all American adults were married; in 2010 just 51% were, according to the Pew Centre. (http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2011/12/14/barely-half-of-u-s-adults-are-married-a-record-low/?src=prc-headline) The number dropped sharply by 5% in the most recent year, 2009-10.
"I think we are on the cusp of seeing marriage becoming less central to our life course and in framing the lives of our nation's children. So I think it is a major moment in that regard," says Bradford Wilcox, director of the National Marriage Project and a sociology professor at the University of Virginia.

Americans are certainly waiting longer before they tie the knot - the average age for a first marriage is at an all-time high of 26.5 years for women and 28.7 for men - or else opting to cohabit, live alone or not re-marry when they get divorced.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16274740

chloe
01-09-2012, 11:12 AM
I liked being married, but my husband didn't:laugh2:

Shadow
01-09-2012, 10:22 PM
I liked being married, but my husband didn't:laugh2:

I waited a long time before getting married...I was 28. I think the average age for women is 24 or 25. I assumed it was the next step after living together,but once the ring was on my finger.. it seemed like the relationship just went to hell. Can't say I enjoyed it...but, I learned a lot from that experience at least. Don't know if I would want to get married again though. Which was one of the comments made in the article,a lot of divorced folks are not doing it a second time.

Jess
01-09-2012, 10:29 PM
My immediate opinion would be that there is less marriage in general because women can fend for themselves financially and men have learned that they can do stuff for themselves if they have to. Both have learned that they can have a relationship with somebody and not have to give up half of their stuff if it doesn't work out.

Is that right? Dunno. Right now it fits into my mind-set.

As I told my father - marriage is a crap-shoot any way you look at it. It doesn't matter whether you meet somebody through friends, at a bar, at church, on the internet or anywhere else.

chloe
01-09-2012, 10:42 PM
I guess I am just tradtional I like marriage vows and all that romantic commitment stuff :laugh2:

I know you can say it and mean it without getting married but I like the idea of marriage, I never got anything financially from the divorce

my ex husband is a divorce attorney he wrote our divorce contract and I signed it we agreed on everything.

I just think that marriage seems more secure a commitment then living together, as it is much easier to move out then divorce.

But that said I won't marry again.

Jess
01-09-2012, 10:44 PM
I guess I am just tradtional I like marriage vows and all that romantic commitment stuff :laugh2:

I know you can say it and mean it without getting married but I like the idea of marriage, I never got anything financially from the divorce

my ex husband is a divorce attorney he wrote our divorce contract and I signed it we agreed on everything.

I just think that marriage seems more secure a commitment then living together, as it is much easier to move out then divorce.

But that said I won't marry again.

If that works for you - then go for it, Chloe. We all gotta do what works for us. ;)

ConHog
01-09-2012, 10:48 PM
I had been divorced for almost as long as my current wife had been alive when we met, and I swore I wouldn't get married again, but she wanted a ring and so she got a ring, best decision I ever made was to let her convince me to propose.

btw not really on the time, she was 19 when we met, I'd been divorced for 11 years.

chloe
01-09-2012, 10:48 PM
If that works for you - then go for it, Chloe. We all gotta do what works for us. ;)



Sure, everyone is individual in that, and my way isn't the only right way it's just my preference.;)

Jess
01-09-2012, 10:50 PM
Sure, everyone is individual in that, and my way isn't the only right way it's just my preference.;)

My opinion may change. One never knows.


I had been divorced for almost as long as my current wife had been alive when we met, and I swore I wouldn't get married again, but she wanted a ring and so she got a ring, best decision I ever made was to let her convince me to propose.

btw not really on the time, she was 19 when we met, I'd been divorced for 11 years.

Yeah, you guys go for us younger women. :rolleyes:

ConHog
01-09-2012, 10:53 PM
Yeah, you guys go for us younger women. :rolleyes:

I wasn't looking for any woman, let alone a younger woman. Not my fault she got me in her husband crosshairs and worked some voodoo, I was helpless. :laugh:

Shadow
01-09-2012, 10:56 PM
I guess I am just tradtional I like marriage vows and all that romantic commitment stuff :laugh2:

I know you can say it and mean it without getting married but I like the idea of marriage, I never got anything financially from the divorce

my ex husband is a divorce attorney he wrote our divorce contract and I signed it we agreed on everything.

I just think that marriage seems more secure a commitment then living together, as it is much easier to move out then divorce.

But that said I won't marry again.

Being married has both pros and cons. Financially it was pretty good..that is when the ex was actually working...when he wasn't it was very stressfull wondering how the bills were going to get paid and if the utilities were going to get shut off. It was nice to have someone around to share time with and talk to about everyday issues at first too....when he was actually invested in the relationship. Once it went south though...it was a nightmare.

I have been pretty independant for a very long time,and am now kind of set in my ways ( and have both good and bad habits). Trying to live with someone again, I would have to learn to compromise and be a team player all over again. You never know though could be just like riding a bike ;)

Jess
01-09-2012, 10:58 PM
Being married has both pros and cons. Financially it was pretty good (that is when the ex was actually working)...when he wasn't it was very stressfull wondering how the bills were going to get paid and if the utilities were going to get shut off. It was nice to have someone around to share time with and talk to about everyday issues at first too....when he was actually invested in the relationship. Once it went south though...it was a nightmare.

I have been pretty independant for a very long time,and am now kind of set in my ways ( and have both good and bad habits). Trying to live with someone again, I would have to learn to compromise and be a team player all over again. You never know though could be just like riding a bike ;)

I was married for 13 years, then on my own for a year and a half. There are some adjustments to make but having companionship that doesn't try to control everything you do it pretty nice. If you know the person well it helps.

chloe
01-09-2012, 11:12 PM
Being married has both pros and cons. Financially it was pretty good (that is when the ex was actually working)...when he wasn't it was very stressfull wondering how the bills were going to get paid and if the utilities were going to get shut off. It was nice to have someone around to share time with and talk to about everyday issues at first too....when he was actually invested in the relationship. Once it went south though...it was a nightmare.

I have been pretty independant for a very long time,and am now kind of set in my ways ( and have both good and bad habits). Trying to live with someone again, I would have to learn to compromise and be a team player all over again. You never know though could be just like riding a bike ;)

I have not been in a relationship offline for many years.

But I have lived with teenage girls (very trying times lol) :rolleyes:

I am set in my ways on a lot of things too and that is why I can't imagine a scenario where I would ever marry again, still it is my preferred method of commitment when all is said and done it just seems more romantic to me.

Shadow
01-09-2012, 11:22 PM
I have not been in a relationship offline for many years.

But I have lived with teenage girls (very trying times lol) :rolleyes:

I am set in my ways on a lot of things too and that is why I can't imagine a scenario where I would ever marry again, still it is my preferred method of commitment when all is said and done it just seems more romantic to me.

I live with two teenage girls too. Great kids...but, I can't wait until the day they decide they need/want to live on their own. I have a feeling I'm going to REALLY need a break by then (if I survive that long). :)

logroller
01-10-2012, 03:38 AM
I guess I am just tradtional I like marriage vows and all that romantic commitment stuff :laugh2:

I know you can say it and mean it without getting married but I like the idea of marriage, I never got anything financially from the divorce

my ex husband is a divorce attorney he wrote our divorce contract and I signed it we agreed on everything.

I just think that marriage seems more secure a commitment then living together, as it is much easier to move out then divorce.

But that said I won't marry again.

I've heard high stress occupations, cops, firefighters, lawyers and doctors, have higher divorce rates and certain medical specialties are higher than others-- I wonder what the divorce rate is for divorce attorneys compared to other legal specialties?

Interestingly, I remember reading somewhere that marriages where the wife makes more money than the husband have higher rates of divorce too.

SassyLady
01-10-2012, 03:48 AM
I've heard high stress occupations, cops, firefighters, lawyers and doctors, have higher divorce rates and certain medical specialties are higher than others-- I wonder what the divorce rate is for divorce attorneys compared to other legal specialties?

Interestingly, I remember reading somewhere that marriages where the wife makes more money than the husband have higher rates of divorce too.

How about divorce rate among military during times of war vs. peace?

DragonStryk72
01-10-2012, 08:15 AM
I don't know, the problem with just looking at a bare statistics is that it doesn't really take into account outside factors. Our economy has been in the crapper for several years now, and that's certainly going to effect the marriage rate. I don't think that marriage is going away insomuch as its changing. It used to be that getting married was just expected, and divorce was a rarity. There's some good in the holding off, such as people being in far better financial shape or waiting to meet the right person, along with those who shouldn't get married staying single, but on the other hand, you have people who have a very incorrect view of what marriage is.

Shadow
01-11-2012, 12:42 AM
I've heard high stress occupations, cops, firefighters, lawyers and doctors, have higher divorce rates and certain medical specialties are higher than others-- I wonder what the divorce rate is for divorce attorneys compared to other legal specialties?

Interestingly, I remember reading somewhere that marriages where the wife makes more money than the husband have higher rates of divorce too.

I read an article awhile back that pretty much said the same...high stress fields. Another thing they listed was any jobs that offers comfort, night time hours or temptations (such as women,gambling,alcohol).

Some professions included:

Dancers
MassageTherapists
Casinos/Gaming
Bars/nightclubs
Hotels

I also remember a lack of financial security being very high on the list of reasons people divorce.

katarina welsch
01-11-2012, 03:06 AM
The Pew Centre research, which suggests marriage is falling out of favour far less quickly among college graduates than less educated groups, would appear to bear this argument out.
Nearly two-thirds of American adults with college degrees (64%) are married, compared with just 47% among those with a high school education. That is in sharp contrast to 1960, when the most educated and the least educated were about equally likely to be married.

"There has been a realisation among college-educated Americans that marriage is actually a pretty good idea, even if they don't like to talk about it in public," argues Bradford Wilcox.

"On things like abortion, on hot-button global social issues, Americans who are college educated are more liberal.

"But when it comes to thinking about how they are going to govern their own lives, their own family lives, our sense from the data is that they are more marriage-minded, they are more conventional about family life."

is concerned that marriage is "withering" among middle and lower income groups, with potentially disastrous effects on American society and the economy.

"I think we are moving more towards a classically Latin model, where the powerful and the privileged have strong, stable families and access to decent income and decent assets. And everyone who is not in that upper third is worse and worse off."

The traditional nuclear family is still held up as an ideal in American politics and society, certainly more so than in many other Western democracies such as the UK.

Mr Wilcox argues that it has been the key to America's prosperity over the years.

He believes the decline in marriage is largely down to a sharp fall in the earning power and job prospects of non-college educated American men, many of whom now lack the means to get married, leaving their offspring "doubly disadvantaged" - lacking both assets and a stable home.

But perhaps it is a little premature to write the obituary for the American marriage just yet.

The sharp 5% decline in the number of new marriages in the US between 2009 and 2010, revealed by the Pew research, may simply be down to short-term economic factors.

With the cost of the average wedding running at about $20,000 (12,946) many couples are opting for a longer engagement to give them more time to save up, according to Kyle Brown, of the American Bridal Association, which represents America's multi-billion dollar wedding industry.

But, he adds, his members have noticed "an increase in the beginning process of wedding planning, on items such as gowns, in the past three months".

"I would expect to see an uptick in the number of weddings in 2012 and 2013," he says. "It is purely down to economics."

Jess
01-13-2012, 06:19 PM
The Pew Centre research, which suggests marriage is falling out of favour far less quickly among college graduates than less educated groups, would appear to bear this argument out.
Nearly two-thirds of American adults with college degrees (64%) are married, compared with just 47% among those with a high school education. That is in sharp contrast to 1960, when the most educated and the least educated were about equally likely to be married.

"There has been a realisation among college-educated Americans that marriage is actually a pretty good idea, even if they don't like to talk about it in public," argues Bradford Wilcox.

"On things like abortion, on hot-button global social issues, Americans who are college educated are more liberal.

"But when it comes to thinking about how they are going to govern their own lives, their own family lives, our sense from the data is that they are more marriage-minded, they are more conventional about family life."

is concerned that marriage is "withering" among middle and lower income groups, with potentially disastrous effects on American society and the economy.

"I think we are moving more towards a classically Latin model, where the powerful and the privileged have strong, stable families and access to decent income and decent assets. And everyone who is not in that upper third is worse and worse off."

The traditional nuclear family is still held up as an ideal in American politics and society, certainly more so than in many other Western democracies such as the UK.

Mr Wilcox argues that it has been the key to America's prosperity over the years.

He believes the decline in marriage is largely down to a sharp fall in the earning power and job prospects of non-college educated American men, many of whom now lack the means to get married, leaving their offspring "doubly disadvantaged" - lacking both assets and a stable home.

But perhaps it is a little premature to write the obituary for the American marriage just yet.

The sharp 5% decline in the number of new marriages in the US between 2009 and 2010, revealed by the Pew research, may simply be down to short-term economic factors.

With the cost of the average wedding running at about $20,000 (12,946) many couples are opting for a longer engagement to give them more time to save up, according to Kyle Brown, of the American Bridal Association, which represents America's multi-billion dollar wedding industry.

But, he adds, his members have noticed "an increase in the beginning process of wedding planning, on items such as gowns, in the past three months".

"I would expect to see an uptick in the number of weddings in 2012 and 2013," he says. "It is purely down to economics."

For real?!?!?

That's ridiculous.

Maybe that's why the marriages fail - they start out broke, he's peeved that they spent $20K on "the day" and they could have done something constructive with it.

Thunderknuckles
01-13-2012, 07:16 PM
The problem with marriage in the U.S. is that is viewed as a financial contract by government.
Considering what others have posted let's toss in the cost of a divorce as well as consider that married people earn roughly 10%-20% more than unmarried people.

So your financial investment opportunity in marriage breaks down as such:
You have a 50% chance of getting about a 15% return. If the investment goes south, you lose half of everything you own, will be responsible for additional payments if children are involved for about another decade, and will be responsible for additional monthly sums to your "investment partner" till you die (depending on which state you live in).

This is why God made vaginas. It is the only thing in the universe with the power to compel a man to make such an investment.
:waltz:

Jess
01-13-2012, 07:22 PM
The problem with marriage in the U.S. is that is viewed as a financial contract by government.
Considering what others have posted let's toss in the cost of a divorce as well as consider that married people earn roughly 10%-20% more than unmarried people.

So your financial investment opportunity in marriage breaks down as such:
You have a 50% chance of getting about a 15% return. If the investment goes south, you lose half of everything you own, will be responsible for additional payments if children are involved for about another decade, and will be responsible for additional monthly sums to your "investment partner" till you die (depending on which state you live in).

This is why God made vaginas. It is the only thing in the universe with the power to compel a man to make such an investment.
:waltz:

No. That's what man made alcohol for. To get women drunk enough to throw her lot in with some guy who is going to bitch about her while she takes care of him, the house, the kids and she'll end up on the short end of the stick because she was "a good wife" instead of getting her fair share. ;)

Thunderknuckles
01-13-2012, 10:51 PM
No. That's what man made alcohol for. To get women drunk enough to throw her lot in with some guy who is going to bitch about her while she takes care of him, the house, the kids and she'll end up on the short end of the stick because she was "a good wife" instead of getting her fair share. ;)
I think she's referring to you Gunny :p

Jess
01-13-2012, 10:55 PM
I think she's referring to you Gunny :p

Nope. His predecessor.

Gunny's a peach. :cool:

Shadow
01-14-2012, 05:57 PM
No. That's what man made alcohol for. To get women drunk enough to throw her lot in with some guy who is going to bitch about her while she takes care of him, the house, the kids and she'll end up on the short end of the stick because she was "a good wife" instead of getting her fair share. ;)

Yeah...and bitch and moan about what an abusive deadbeat his own father was everytime the subject was brought up...only to turn around and later write off his own kids without a second thought or dime spent on making sure that their needs are being met.

That's some pretty good alcohol...I think mine was laced with crack actually.

Jess
01-14-2012, 06:07 PM
Yeah...and bitch and moan about what an abusive deadbeat his own father was everytime the subject was brought up...only to turn around and later write off his own kids without a second thought or dime spent on making sure that their needs are being met.

That's some pretty good alcohol...I think mine was laced with crack actually.

Wait - how did you marry and have kids with my ex? This is strange. :wtf:

Shadow
01-14-2012, 06:12 PM
For real?!?!?

That's ridiculous.

Maybe that's why the marriages fail - they start out broke, he's peeved that they spent $20K on "the day" and they could have done something constructive with it.

It's crazy,huh. I was watching a snippet from one of those wedding shows on TLC this morning. Some girl went to a bridal shop wanting dresses....and goes " I want to only spend 2-5 thousand dollars...if possible". The wedding planner then has this look on her face like..."good luck with that".

I spent $120.00 on mine...and I think maybe $800.00 for the preacher,church,flowers,food etc...(this was in 1994).

Probably unheard of now.

cadet
01-14-2012, 06:20 PM
Whatever happened to "Till death due us part."?

Guess promises aren't as important anymore. What do you have if not your word? :(

ConHog
01-14-2012, 06:29 PM
It's crazy,huh. I was watching a snippet from one of those wedding shows on TLC this morning. Some girl went to a bridal shop wanting dresses....and goes " I want to only spend 2-5 thousand dollars...if possible". The wedding planner then has this look on her face like..."good luck with that".

I spent $120.00 on mine...and I think maybe $800.00 for the preacher,church,flowers,food etc...(this was in 1994).

Probably unheard of now.

got married in 2005 at Disney World, the wife wanted to be married at Cindarella's castle. Cost a little over $30K even then.

But for her, it will be the only wedding.

jimnyc
01-14-2012, 06:32 PM
I blame it on the queers. They've invaded the institution. :coffee:

ConHog
01-14-2012, 06:33 PM
I blame it on the queers. They've invaded the institution. :coffee:

and they call me a dick . :laugh2:

jimnyc
01-14-2012, 06:36 PM
got married in 2005 at Disney World, the wife wanted to be married at Cindarella's castle. Cost a little over $30K even then.

But for her, it will be the only wedding.

Did you wear pink? LOL j/k

We got married right next to the beach in St. Lucia, over 17yrs ago now. I suggested 3 Rivers Stadium, she opted to elope and took me along for the ride. She's regretted it ever since! :hyper:

Still can't get enough of that bouncy little hyper bastard, and Ali concurs! :ali:

jimnyc
01-14-2012, 06:39 PM
and they call me a dick . :laugh2:

They call you worse than that!

ConHog
01-14-2012, 06:40 PM
Did you wear pink? LOL j/k

We got married right next to the beach in St. Lucia, over 17yrs ago now. I suggested 3 Rivers Stadium, she opted to elope and took me along for the ride. She's regretted it ever since! :hyper:

Still can't get enough of that bouncy little hyper bastard, and Ali concurs! :ali:

It was cheesy as fuck, I dressed up as Prince Charming, she Cindarella. After the ceremony we rode to our hotel in a pumpkin carriage.

The wife loved it, and it made her happy and ultimately nothing else matters, because if she aint happy, I aint happy.

Thunderknuckles
01-14-2012, 07:57 PM
As far as weddings go, my wife and I had an awesome "cheap" wedding. We spent about 6K. I didn't have to buy a ring. My wife's grandparents passed their ring to me to give to her. It's been passed down in her family for a little over 100 years and they gave it to me!. Aside from the Hope diamond, there isn't a ring in the world I could ever have purchased to match that. My wife's other grandfather is an ordained minister and presided over our wedding. My wife had a custom made dress by her friend's dress shop and one of my wife's rich uncles let us use his ginormous home to hold the wedding at. All I had to do was buy all the booze everyone could drink and show up!!
It will always go down as the greatest party I ever had :D

Shadow
01-15-2012, 11:26 AM
As far as weddings go, my wife and I had an awesome "cheap" wedding. We spent about 6K. I didn't have to buy a ring. My wife's grandparents passed their ring to me to give to her. It's been passed down in her family for a little over 100 years and they gave it to me!. Aside from the Hope diamond, there isn't a ring in the world I could ever have purchased to match that. My wife's other grandfather is an ordained minister and presided over our wedding. My wife had a custom made dress by her friend's dress shop and one of my wife's rich uncles let us use his ginormous home to hold the wedding at. All I had to do was buy all the booze everyone could drink and show up!!
It will always go down as the greatest party I ever had :D

I think it is awesome that you got to give your wife an heirloom for her wedding ring (so cool).

The one memory I have about the wedding ring I gave to my spouse is that is didn't mean diddly squat to him. Infact...the week after our wedding he was helping a friend fix his car. Took his ring off...put it on the bumper and left it there. Took the car for a test drive and there went the ring. When I got upset...he shrugged it off....said he would replace it...and he did...with one that represented me more in his view I'm sure. Bought a cheap $8.00 ring from Walmart (used to turn his finger green)...I stopped wearing mine shortly after that. Probably a good early sign that the relationship would never go anywhere.

Jess
01-15-2012, 11:29 AM
It was cheesy as fuck, I dressed up as Prince Charming, she Cindarella. After the ceremony we rode to our hotel in a pumpkin carriage.

The wife loved it, and it made her happy and ultimately nothing else matters, because if she aint happy, I aint happy.

You made her happy - that IS what is important.

Jess
01-15-2012, 11:35 AM
As far as weddings go, my wife and I had an awesome "cheap" wedding. We spent about 6K. I didn't have to buy a ring. My wife's grandparents passed their ring to me to give to her. It's been passed down in her family for a little over 100 years and they gave it to me!. Aside from the Hope diamond, there isn't a ring in the world I could ever have purchased to match that. My wife's other grandfather is an ordained minister and presided over our wedding. My wife had a custom made dress by her friend's dress shop and one of my wife's rich uncles let us use his ginormous home to hold the wedding at. All I had to do was buy all the booze everyone could drink and show up!!
It will always go down as the greatest party I ever had :D
I think my whole wedding cost about $2k - including my parents putting some of the out-of-state relatives up in a hotel.

I used my best friends' wedding dress, with alterations done by my aunt, stuff was pretty simple, we got married in the church I grew up in (I think it was 175 yrs old at the time -true little country church). Since the ex fancied himself a bull rider at the time all the groomsmen wore black Wranglers, boots, hats, tux shirts and black vests. They all decided to wear spurs too. It was pretty cool.

One of the best things is that some of my (honorary) aunts and uncles were there and they've since passed. Uncle Jerry (country boy) said it was the best wedding he'd ever been to because he got to wear jeans, boots, western shirt and a vest. All the music was country music - Chris LeDoux, George Strait, etc. He passed away within 18 months or so, I believe.

One of the worst things (that is now much more humorous) is that my dad was walking me up the steps to the church and told me that he had a tank full of gas in the car and I could still back out of it. He saw trouble ahead and was willing to give me a way out. My wedding is the first time I ever saw my dad cry. Bittersweet memories.

ConHog
01-15-2012, 02:00 PM
I think my whole wedding cost about $2k - including my parents putting some of the out-of-state relatives up in a hotel.

I used my best friends' wedding dress, with alterations done by my aunt, stuff was pretty simple, we got married in the church I grew up in (I think it was 175 yrs old at the time -true little country church). Since the ex fancied himself a bull rider at the time all the groomsmen wore black Wranglers, boots, hats, tux shirts and black vests. They all decided to wear spurs too. It was pretty cool.

One of the best things is that some of my (honorary) aunts and uncles were there and they've since passed. Uncle Jerry (country boy) said it was the best wedding he'd ever been to because he got to wear jeans, boots, western shirt and a vest. All the music was country music - Chris LeDoux, George Strait, etc. He passed away within 18 months or so, I believe.

One of the worst things (that is now much more humorous) is that my dad was walking me up the steps to the church and told me that he had a tank full of gas in the car and I could still back out of it. He saw trouble ahead and was willing to give me a way out. My wedding is the first time I ever saw my dad cry. Bittersweet memories.

My sister got married the first time when she was 19. As dad started to walk her down the aisle he offered to send her and her best friend to Hawaii for two weeks if she'd call it off. The funniest part is that shit was caught on the official wedding video. :laugh2:

Marriage lasted about 2 years.

Abbey
01-15-2012, 02:13 PM
If we weren't such know-it-alls, and listened to our parents more. :cool:

ConHog
01-15-2012, 02:16 PM
If we weren't such know-it-alls, and listened to our parents more. :cool:

Amazing that my dad gets smarter as I get older. I swear when I was 16 he was a dumb motherfucker. :laugh2:

Seriously, he was totally against me joining the military, so I forever have that to hold over him, I made the right decision at 16. yay for me.

I'm sure that was the ONLY good choice I made then.

Jess
01-15-2012, 03:31 PM
If we weren't such know-it-alls, and listened to our parents more. :cool:

That's what my dad says.

On the other hand, if I had listened to him I wouldn't have the amazing kids that I have and wouldn't be in this place at this time, knowing the people I know, doing the things I do.

Would I trade that? Maybe my life would be better but there's an even chance that my life would be worse. The whole butterfly effect thing.

Life is a learning experience. Not all of my experiences have been fun but I've learned something from each one. *shrugs philosophically*