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View Full Version : STOP AMNESTY NOW!! WE CAN DO IT!! - By a Legalized Latino



-Cp
05-19-2007, 11:20 AM
Many of you who know me from either my pings or past posts and FReeps may know that I do not post that often since I have been here. But recent events and what appears to be a penchant by the elites to ram changes in law and the constitution down our throats, regardless of the fact that most Americans oppose such changes has prompted me to write this about an issue I think is critical to the both the long term and short term future of this country. I am of course speaking of that farce in the senate under the guise of reform, but which is in reality a mass amnesty for people who are here illegally. Many who arguably mean to do harm to this country.

To begin with, I feel I must tell you a bit about myself and my credentials on this subject so that you understand why I urge you to act now.

I am a legal immigrant to this country who arrived here on my 10th birthday with my parents in April of 1962. I was born in Latin America and I am tri-lingual and fluent in all three languages I speak. Spanish is of course one of them. Things were different way back then, at least as far as immigration laws were concerned. My parents and I had to wait several years to be given permission to emigrate here. At that time I had both an Uncle and an Aunt living in the Unites States, a sister and a brother of my mother's. It was her wish to join them that convinced my father to move here although initially he was against it. Since there was no family reunification at the time he had to get someone else to vouch for him (so he wouldn't become a vagrant dependent on the state) and obtain employment before coming here before he would even be allowed to emigrate. My father should have had an edge due to the fact that he had served with US forces during World War II under the command of US officers in what were then known as "Slavonic" Divisions. None of that mattered, he had to stand in line like everyone else.

http://members.aol.com/frank413/FR/dadarmy_400.jpg
This picture was taken sometime in 1944, possibly on leave in London. My father is the guy on the right.

I could bore you with more details but I simply bring these things up as a reference point to what follows.

I am a political scientist by training a PhD Candidate at the CUNY graduate Center, otherwise known as an ABD. I have been involved in numerous political campaigns starting with Giuliani's first run for mayor (a race he lost to Dinkins). I have run assembly campaigns, a US Senate campaign and a US Congressional campaign. I have been active in politics for all of my adult life and have traveled the ideological road from being a committed Marxist and Stalinist in my College years to being a staunch conservative republican today. I think I know a thing or two about politics and what makes both people on the left and the right tick.

I am familiar with Latin culture not only from an academic perspective, but also from an interactive one, as I interact with all my fellow Latinos each and very day. I know what they think and I know what their attitudes are as they will tell me things they will not tell outsiders. a couple of years ago I posted a piece by Sam Huntington that I believe is a must read by all here.

Fast forward to the present and I currently live in a section in Brooklyn, New York that is by all accounts a major focus of illegal immigrants. Mostly from Mexico, Ecuador and San Salvador with a sprinkling of Dominicans and even Chinese illegals.

Very briefly I will tell you that if there is an amnesty in this country America as we know will cease to exist in less than a generation. I am totally dismayed that many countries in the West have opted to commit national suicide and we seem to have decided to join them.

The elites in Washington have decided that their short term interests trump the long term interests of the nation. The issue of immigration is NOT a democratic or republican issue. IT IS a national issue. The supporters of amnesty have narrow interests that are either economic or political short term interests without having given any thought whatsoever. The crowd in Washington goes to the same clubs, eats in the same restaurants, live in gated communities and socialize with other members of the financial and political elites. Any negative impacts on the society at large they tend to be immune from. It is clear there is a faction that is hell bent on depressing wages and attract cheap manual labor in order to compete with third world hellholes. At the same time the catholic church is salivating at the prospect of filling the pews and collection baskets in their churches. The activists in the democratic party are salivating at the prospect of another underclass they can control and exploit. All these forces have coalesced to bring about the present situation. Polls have been consistent in that over 68% of american voters oppose amnesty to illegal immigrants. Over 60% of union households oppose amnesty. Yet the elites are in total disconnect with this because they have decided the public can do nothing to stop them and will likely not do anything to penalize them later. What matters to them is the fact that corporate donors who fund their campaigns have made no bones about the fact that they want an amnesty, or more precisely they demand one.

A few myths
The excuses to support amnesty are many and varied. One is that most of these hispanics are family oriented and will become conservative. The real fact is that most illegals come from the poverty stricken lower classes. Many have relationships and children out of wedlock. The catholicism they practice is much closer to the "liberation theology" variant which is nothing more than Marxism with a God. They bring with them a deep class resentment of not only the wealthy but the middle classes and a racist resentment of whites. Latin American Christianity is also a heavy admixture of traditional pre-colombian gods and elements and would be totally unrecognizable to catholics here. The church pretends all these people are catholics so they can claim their numbers.

Democrats have a delusion that they will be able to manipulate them and garner their votes. Activists in their community are very much aware of this. Most latin american marxists are much closer to the stalinist type than the fashionista left in this country who is leftist because it's the fashion of their peers. Latinos who are marxists, are committed doctrinaire marxists much closer to the Cuban or North Korean model. They have little use for rich white kids who want to be weekend revolutionaries. They also understand that they have a greater chance of projecting power and influence if they keep their communities in control and separate. I had expected them to demand schools exclusively in spanish but they were beaten by the muslims by a hair here in brooklyn. The Madrasa in brooklyn may have been delayed but it is only a matter of time before the demands will surface again. Accusations of cultural imperialism and racism will be lodged against those that demand they assimilate. The "community leaders" know full well that any assimilation is a dilution of their power, therefore they will promote the opposite.

Any comparisons between immigrants of today and those of yesteryear are irrelevant. They were different times and the world was quite different. In 1900 an immigrant to America came on a one way trip, he knew he was not going back. Entire villages collected money for the trip to send one of their own. Passage meant at least a year's wages even in steerage. Today's immigrant is a cheap plane ticked and a few hours away from home. He arrives to a country where he can feel at home in an insular community where his language is spoken. There are radio and television stations available in his own language as well as newspapers and magazines. Mass communications means he is just a phone call away from speaking to his friends back home. The economies of scale make all of this possible in today's world. Today's immigrant is helped by modern technology to feel like he is home in any community of his compatriots abroad. And should he feel homesick it takes only a couple of week's wages and a plane ticket to return home for a visit. None of these things were available to the immigrant a century ago. Another difference is that the immigrant of a century ago came mostly from Western countries to another western country the main difference being the food and language from where he came from.

Latin America is nominally Western. The western portion resides in the main cities and among the educated. In most countries with the possible exception of Argentina and Brazil the indigenous cultures that were found by the conquistadores still exist in stark contrast to what one finds in the cities. It is those who are predominantly the "mojados" that one finds in this country, not the country club upper class that Bush hob nobs with.

Two things happened in Spain in 1492. One was the trip by Cristobal Colon. The other was the final conquest of Andalus. The inquisition was organized mainly to reconvert all those souls who were under islam for 700 years. The result is that many of the conquistadores who came here were a generation away from being muslims. They brought with them a world view much closer to islam than the view of a sophisticated catholic from Italy. The concepts of machismo, guerra sin cuarto, Caudillismo etc. are elements from the islamic period that remained a part of spanish culture in Latin America. There are a lot of parallels between Latin American culture in it's conservatism and what one would find in the middle east. This is something that needs to be kept in mind.

Assimilation is not a guaranteed phenomenon. We have currently numerous groups that have as yet not assimilated even though they have been here for over a century. I can think of the Hasidic jews for starters, or the Amish, or perhaps the Hutterites. The only difference is that their theology has nothing in it that compels them to try to conquer our lands and convert us.

Demographics
I don't think I need to write much on the birth rate factor. One can search all over the net to see the statistics. Muslims and illegals are the fastest reproducing segment of the population. As the population shifts and new groups become more numerous the power center will shift. The losers? Indigenous american indians, caucasians and blacks.

There is the lie that there are only 12 million illegals in this country. That number keeps getting thrown around as if is gospel. The fact is that we have no clue how many are here. If one takes the estimate that ten years ago there were 10,000 crossings a day at the border and extrapolates 3.5 million illegals a year then we can rest assured the 12 million figure is totally wrong. It could be as high as 35 million or even as high as 70 million. Do a search on the web and you will see that all the claims could be valid. remember the last amnesty in 1984? I do. We were promised that they would secure the borders, that the amnesty would mean that fewer people would come and that we would enforce immigration laws. Of course it was all naive and a pipe dream. Think this amnesty will stop more people coming? You haven't seen anything yet. Once people all over the world get wind of what a bunch of chumps we are they will come over in droves like we have never seen. You can't feed a crocodile and expect it to be satisfied with a morsel.

The losers
So who will lose if there's amnesty? Oddly enough most of the big losers are part of the grand democratic coalition. Union workers, their leaders only see more members, the rank and file will fall to depressed wages and downward pressures in their standard of living. Blacks will lose influence as a group and will be played off against the emerging mexican hispanic power block. Their population which reached a peak of 14% of the population is in decline and will continue to decline as illegals have more children. Women will find that the male dominated culture of machismo and the misogynist muslim outlook will make for interesting times in the future. Gays will find much less tolerance among Latinos and Muslims for their lifestyle, even from the left. They ought to get an idea at how gays are treated in Cuba to get a hint. The middle class as always will face increasing taxation to pay for all the programs and services that will be demanded by the new majorities. The elderly will find that most of the new workers brought in to prop up the welfare state will have little tolerance to pay for those on the retirement dole. That will have implications in the near future. Other hispanics, in particular Puerto Ricans and Dominicans who will find themselves elbowed out by the Mexicans. This phenomenon is already happening in the hispanic caucus and other national hispanic organizations where the divisions among hispanics are coming into the open. For many hispanics who are second and third generation americans the honeymoon is begriming to come to an end. Jews will find perhaps a rise in anti semitism. Latin America is home to a particularly virulent form that rears it's ugly head quite often. Ingrained in Spanish catholicism and fed by marxist solidarity for arabs it will always be there under the surface. Republicans and Conservatives we will be the biggest losers in this game. Most of the activists among the Mecha and Aztlan types are already forging alliances with radicals in the muslim community. We may get a few new republicans from these new immigrants, but the reality is that the class and race hatred that many of them bring with them will likely be passed on to new generations as they are in most groups.

The next stage
I could go on and write a dissertation on the subject, but that is not my purpose nor is there time for that. One side argues that we can;'t get rid of all illegals in this country. I believe they are wrong. They don't want to get rid of the illegals here. There was a time not long ago, about 15 years ago that New York was home to one of the largest communities of illegal Irish immigrants. It was estimated at the time there were upwards of half a million illegal irish immigrants in New York. An interesting thing happened though. It was the Irish miracle, the economy took a turn North and opportunities were everywhere. The result is that almost all of those half million illegals returned home. It was a matter of incentive. If you make it difficult for illegals to work in this country and punish those who hire them I guarantee you will see the phenomenon repeated again.

What is to be done?
In 1902 V.I. Lenin published a pamphlet entitled "What is To Be Done?" it was a blueprint for his political ideas on taking power. In a way, we need our own approach to this problem. The issue of immigration is an issue that affects all of us in a very likely negative way far beyond our political ideologies if we are Americans. We need to reach out and awaken all those groups that do not currently see the urgency but who will be adversely affected by the coming changes. We need a coalition of the unlikely.

We need to reach out to rank and file workers, both union and outside. This has to be a grassroots mobilization made up of individuals rather than a national organization. American Hispanics born here must understand that they are about to be elbowed out and will lose bug time. Gays must understand that if they think Jerry Falwell was bad for them, they haven't seen intolerance yet. Women must understand that any gains they may have had with regards to the workplace and society can be swept away just as easily as they have been put in place. Jews must understand that the rising anti semitism will get worse, not better.

A postage stamp an envelope and e-mail
In politics as in economics, perception is reality. The level of commitment by an opponent is gauged by his determination and how much he is willing to invest in opposing something. The anti-amnesty crowd has not been very successful because they have been disorganized and have been painted as racists and bigots as the Minutemen have. You cannot give them a target to latch onto. Responding to such attacks gives only credence to the attacker. This has to be totally a citizen to citizen uprising. If you know other Hispanics who oppose amnesty contact the. Have Black friends? Explain to them how they stand to lose out (they know already) start networking. Call all your acquaintances and friends and send them e-mails. Fear is a great motivator, it is the one thing that moves people to action and motivates them to show up at the polls.

DO NOT JUST SEND EMAILS TO YOUR CONGRESSMAN OR SENATOR. For the most part they get deleted as spam and don't have much impact. It also shows a lack of commitment and that you are lazy. INSTEAD INVEST IN POSTAGE STAMPS. There is nothing more impressive than postal service trucks showing up at congress with bags full of envelopes with paper mail.

USE THE PHONES, CALL AND CLOG THEIR LINES. ONA CELLPHONE A CALL TO WASHINGTON IS A LOCAL CALL. Faxes are a waste of time. There is a physical limit to how many faxes a fax machine can receive.

FReerepublic is the right place to start this. But we must reach out from beyond our narrow confines. Beyond conservatives, beyond republicans, beyond democrats.

Do this as if your future depends on it, because it does.

Do this as if your children's future depends on it, because it does.

Do this as if the nation's future depends on it, because it does.

SEND AN ENVELOPE WITH A PERSONAL LETTER TO YOUR CONGRESSMAN, YOUR SENATOR. CALL THE LOCAL COUNTY LEADERS. DON'T LIMIT IT TO WASHINGTON, CALL THE LOCAL POLITICIANS AS WELL. THE GOVERNOR OF YOUR STATE ETC.

YOU MUST RAISE HELL!! THE ONLY WAY TO BE HEARD IS TO YELL.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1834958/posts

loosecannon
05-19-2007, 11:31 AM
Many of you who know me from either my pings or past posts

Far too many salient points to even pick from. Excellent post and spot on. Amen.

nevadamedic
05-19-2007, 11:47 AM
Many of you who know me from either my pings or past posts and FReeps may know that I do not post that often since I have been here. But recent events and what appears to be a penchant by the elites to ram changes in law and the constitution down our throats, regardless of the fact that most Americans oppose such changes has prompted me to write this about an issue I think is critical to the both the long term and short term future of this country. I am of course speaking of that farce in the senate under the guise of reform, but which is in reality a mass amnesty for people who are here illegally. Many who arguably mean to do harm to this country.

To begin with, I feel I must tell you a bit about myself and my credentials on this subject so that you understand why I urge you to act now.

I am a legal immigrant to this country who arrived here on my 10th birthday with my parents in April of 1962. I was born in Latin America and I am tri-lingual and fluent in all three languages I speak. Spanish is of course one of them. Things were different way back then, at least as far as immigration laws were concerned. My parents and I had to wait several years to be given permission to emigrate here. At that time I had both an Uncle and an Aunt living in the Unites States, a sister and a brother of my mother's. It was her wish to join them that convinced my father to move here although initially he was against it. Since there was no family reunification at the time he had to get someone else to vouch for him (so he wouldn't become a vagrant dependent on the state) and obtain employment before coming here before he would even be allowed to emigrate. My father should have had an edge due to the fact that he had served with US forces during World War II under the command of US officers in what were then known as "Slavonic" Divisions. None of that mattered, he had to stand in line like everyone else.

http://members.aol.com/frank413/FR/dadarmy_400.jpg
This picture was taken sometime in 1944, possibly on leave in London. My father is the guy on the right.

I could bore you with more details but I simply bring these things up as a reference point to what follows.

I am a political scientist by training a PhD Candidate at the CUNY graduate Center, otherwise known as an ABD. I have been involved in numerous political campaigns starting with Giuliani's first run for mayor (a race he lost to Dinkins). I have run assembly campaigns, a US Senate campaign and a US Congressional campaign. I have been active in politics for all of my adult life and have traveled the ideological road from being a committed Marxist and Stalinist in my College years to being a staunch conservative republican today. I think I know a thing or two about politics and what makes both people on the left and the right tick.

I am familiar with Latin culture not only from an academic perspective, but also from an interactive one, as I interact with all my fellow Latinos each and very day. I know what they think and I know what their attitudes are as they will tell me things they will not tell outsiders. a couple of years ago I posted a piece by Sam Huntington that I believe is a must read by all here.

Fast forward to the present and I currently live in a section in Brooklyn, New York that is by all accounts a major focus of illegal immigrants. Mostly from Mexico, Ecuador and San Salvador with a sprinkling of Dominicans and even Chinese illegals.

Very briefly I will tell you that if there is an amnesty in this country America as we know will cease to exist in less than a generation. I am totally dismayed that many countries in the West have opted to commit national suicide and we seem to have decided to join them.

The elites in Washington have decided that their short term interests trump the long term interests of the nation. The issue of immigration is NOT a democratic or republican issue. IT IS a national issue. The supporters of amnesty have narrow interests that are either economic or political short term interests without having given any thought whatsoever. The crowd in Washington goes to the same clubs, eats in the same restaurants, live in gated communities and socialize with other members of the financial and political elites. Any negative impacts on the society at large they tend to be immune from. It is clear there is a faction that is hell bent on depressing wages and attract cheap manual labor in order to compete with third world hellholes. At the same time the catholic church is salivating at the prospect of filling the pews and collection baskets in their churches. The activists in the democratic party are salivating at the prospect of another underclass they can control and exploit. All these forces have coalesced to bring about the present situation. Polls have been consistent in that over 68% of american voters oppose amnesty to illegal immigrants. Over 60% of union households oppose amnesty. Yet the elites are in total disconnect with this because they have decided the public can do nothing to stop them and will likely not do anything to penalize them later. What matters to them is the fact that corporate donors who fund their campaigns have made no bones about the fact that they want an amnesty, or more precisely they demand one.

A few myths
The excuses to support amnesty are many and varied. One is that most of these hispanics are family oriented and will become conservative. The real fact is that most illegals come from the poverty stricken lower classes. Many have relationships and children out of wedlock. The catholicism they practice is much closer to the "liberation theology" variant which is nothing more than Marxism with a God. They bring with them a deep class resentment of not only the wealthy but the middle classes and a racist resentment of whites. Latin American Christianity is also a heavy admixture of traditional pre-colombian gods and elements and would be totally unrecognizable to catholics here. The church pretends all these people are catholics so they can claim their numbers.

Democrats have a delusion that they will be able to manipulate them and garner their votes. Activists in their community are very much aware of this. Most latin american marxists are much closer to the stalinist type than the fashionista left in this country who is leftist because it's the fashion of their peers. Latinos who are marxists, are committed doctrinaire marxists much closer to the Cuban or North Korean model. They have little use for rich white kids who want to be weekend revolutionaries. They also understand that they have a greater chance of projecting power and influence if they keep their communities in control and separate. I had expected them to demand schools exclusively in spanish but they were beaten by the muslims by a hair here in brooklyn. The Madrasa in brooklyn may have been delayed but it is only a matter of time before the demands will surface again. Accusations of cultural imperialism and racism will be lodged against those that demand they assimilate. The "community leaders" know full well that any assimilation is a dilution of their power, therefore they will promote the opposite.

Any comparisons between immigrants of today and those of yesteryear are irrelevant. They were different times and the world was quite different. In 1900 an immigrant to America came on a one way trip, he knew he was not going back. Entire villages collected money for the trip to send one of their own. Passage meant at least a year's wages even in steerage. Today's immigrant is a cheap plane ticked and a few hours away from home. He arrives to a country where he can feel at home in an insular community where his language is spoken. There are radio and television stations available in his own language as well as newspapers and magazines. Mass communications means he is just a phone call away from speaking to his friends back home. The economies of scale make all of this possible in today's world. Today's immigrant is helped by modern technology to feel like he is home in any community of his compatriots abroad. And should he feel homesick it takes only a couple of week's wages and a plane ticket to return home for a visit. None of these things were available to the immigrant a century ago. Another difference is that the immigrant of a century ago came mostly from Western countries to another western country the main difference being the food and language from where he came from.

Latin America is nominally Western. The western portion resides in the main cities and among the educated. In most countries with the possible exception of Argentina and Brazil the indigenous cultures that were found by the conquistadores still exist in stark contrast to what one finds in the cities. It is those who are predominantly the "mojados" that one finds in this country, not the country club upper class that Bush hob nobs with.

Two things happened in Spain in 1492. One was the trip by Cristobal Colon. The other was the final conquest of Andalus. The inquisition was organized mainly to reconvert all those souls who were under islam for 700 years. The result is that many of the conquistadores who came here were a generation away from being muslims. They brought with them a world view much closer to islam than the view of a sophisticated catholic from Italy. The concepts of machismo, guerra sin cuarto, Caudillismo etc. are elements from the islamic period that remained a part of spanish culture in Latin America. There are a lot of parallels between Latin American culture in it's conservatism and what one would find in the middle east. This is something that needs to be kept in mind.

Assimilation is not a guaranteed phenomenon. We have currently numerous groups that have as yet not assimilated even though they have been here for over a century. I can think of the Hasidic jews for starters, or the Amish, or perhaps the Hutterites. The only difference is that their theology has nothing in it that compels them to try to conquer our lands and convert us.

Demographics
I don't think I need to write much on the birth rate factor. One can search all over the net to see the statistics. Muslims and illegals are the fastest reproducing segment of the population. As the population shifts and new groups become more numerous the power center will shift. The losers? Indigenous american indians, caucasians and blacks.

There is the lie that there are only 12 million illegals in this country. That number keeps getting thrown around as if is gospel. The fact is that we have no clue how many are here. If one takes the estimate that ten years ago there were 10,000 crossings a day at the border and extrapolates 3.5 million illegals a year then we can rest assured the 12 million figure is totally wrong. It could be as high as 35 million or even as high as 70 million. Do a search on the web and you will see that all the claims could be valid. remember the last amnesty in 1984? I do. We were promised that they would secure the borders, that the amnesty would mean that fewer people would come and that we would enforce immigration laws. Of course it was all naive and a pipe dream. Think this amnesty will stop more people coming? You haven't seen anything yet. Once people all over the world get wind of what a bunch of chumps we are they will come over in droves like we have never seen. You can't feed a crocodile and expect it to be satisfied with a morsel.

The losers
So who will lose if there's amnesty? Oddly enough most of the big losers are part of the grand democratic coalition. Union workers, their leaders only see more members, the rank and file will fall to depressed wages and downward pressures in their standard of living. Blacks will lose influence as a group and will be played off against the emerging mexican hispanic power block. Their population which reached a peak of 14% of the population is in decline and will continue to decline as illegals have more children. Women will find that the male dominated culture of machismo and the misogynist muslim outlook will make for interesting times in the future. Gays will find much less tolerance among Latinos and Muslims for their lifestyle, even from the left. They ought to get an idea at how gays are treated in Cuba to get a hint. The middle class as always will face increasing taxation to pay for all the programs and services that will be demanded by the new majorities. The elderly will find that most of the new workers brought in to prop up the welfare state will have little tolerance to pay for those on the retirement dole. That will have implications in the near future. Other hispanics, in particular Puerto Ricans and Dominicans who will find themselves elbowed out by the Mexicans. This phenomenon is already happening in the hispanic caucus and other national hispanic organizations where the divisions among hispanics are coming into the open. For many hispanics who are second and third generation americans the honeymoon is begriming to come to an end. Jews will find perhaps a rise in anti semitism. Latin America is home to a particularly virulent form that rears it's ugly head quite often. Ingrained in Spanish catholicism and fed by marxist solidarity for arabs it will always be there under the surface. Republicans and Conservatives we will be the biggest losers in this game. Most of the activists among the Mecha and Aztlan types are already forging alliances with radicals in the muslim community. We may get a few new republicans from these new immigrants, but the reality is that the class and race hatred that many of them bring with them will likely be passed on to new generations as they are in most groups.

The next stage
I could go on and write a dissertation on the subject, but that is not my purpose nor is there time for that. One side argues that we can;'t get rid of all illegals in this country. I believe they are wrong. They don't want to get rid of the illegals here. There was a time not long ago, about 15 years ago that New York was home to one of the largest communities of illegal Irish immigrants. It was estimated at the time there were upwards of half a million illegal irish immigrants in New York. An interesting thing happened though. It was the Irish miracle, the economy took a turn North and opportunities were everywhere. The result is that almost all of those half million illegals returned home. It was a matter of incentive. If you make it difficult for illegals to work in this country and punish those who hire them I guarantee you will see the phenomenon repeated again.

What is to be done?
In 1902 V.I. Lenin published a pamphlet entitled "What is To Be Done?" it was a blueprint for his political ideas on taking power. In a way, we need our own approach to this problem. The issue of immigration is an issue that affects all of us in a very likely negative way far beyond our political ideologies if we are Americans. We need to reach out and awaken all those groups that do not currently see the urgency but who will be adversely affected by the coming changes. We need a coalition of the unlikely.

We need to reach out to rank and file workers, both union and outside. This has to be a grassroots mobilization made up of individuals rather than a national organization. American Hispanics born here must understand that they are about to be elbowed out and will lose bug time. Gays must understand that if they think Jerry Falwell was bad for them, they haven't seen intolerance yet. Women must understand that any gains they may have had with regards to the workplace and society can be swept away just as easily as they have been put in place. Jews must understand that the rising anti semitism will get worse, not better.

A postage stamp an envelope and e-mail
In politics as in economics, perception is reality. The level of commitment by an opponent is gauged by his determination and how much he is willing to invest in opposing something. The anti-amnesty crowd has not been very successful because they have been disorganized and have been painted as racists and bigots as the Minutemen have. You cannot give them a target to latch onto. Responding to such attacks gives only credence to the attacker. This has to be totally a citizen to citizen uprising. If you know other Hispanics who oppose amnesty contact the. Have Black friends? Explain to them how they stand to lose out (they know already) start networking. Call all your acquaintances and friends and send them e-mails. Fear is a great motivator, it is the one thing that moves people to action and motivates them to show up at the polls.

DO NOT JUST SEND EMAILS TO YOUR CONGRESSMAN OR SENATOR. For the most part they get deleted as spam and don't have much impact. It also shows a lack of commitment and that you are lazy. INSTEAD INVEST IN POSTAGE STAMPS. There is nothing more impressive than postal service trucks showing up at congress with bags full of envelopes with paper mail.

USE THE PHONES, CALL AND CLOG THEIR LINES. ONA CELLPHONE A CALL TO WASHINGTON IS A LOCAL CALL. Faxes are a waste of time. There is a physical limit to how many faxes a fax machine can receive.

FReerepublic is the right place to start this. But we must reach out from beyond our narrow confines. Beyond conservatives, beyond republicans, beyond democrats.

Do this as if your future depends on it, because it does.

Do this as if your children's future depends on it, because it does.

Do this as if the nation's future depends on it, because it does.

SEND AN ENVELOPE WITH A PERSONAL LETTER TO YOUR CONGRESSMAN, YOUR SENATOR. CALL THE LOCAL COUNTY LEADERS. DON'T LIMIT IT TO WASHINGTON, CALL THE LOCAL POLITICIANS AS WELL. THE GOVERNOR OF YOUR STATE ETC.

YOU MUST RAISE HELL!! THE ONLY WAY TO BE HEARD IS TO YELL.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1834958/posts

:clap:

Doniston
05-19-2007, 12:10 PM
Do this as if your future depends on it, because it does.

Do this as if your children's future depends on it, because it does.

Do this as if the nation's future depends on it, because it does.

SEND AN ENVELOPE WITH A PERSONAL LETTER TO YOUR CONGRESSMAN, YOUR SENATOR. CALL THE LOCAL COUNTY LEADERS. DON'T LIMIT IT TO WASHINGTON, CALL THE LOCAL POLITICIANS AS WELL. THE GOVERNOR OF YOUR STATE ETC.

YOU MUST RAISE HELL!! THE ONLY WAY TO BE HEARD IS TO YELL.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1834958/posts Not only NO, but HELL NO It is the only part of Bush's side I agree with. WE HAVE NO CHOICE. it is too late to do anything but grant them amnesty "IF" they follow simple instructions.

I will do precisely the oposite to your desires.

Roomy
05-19-2007, 12:19 PM
Can't be bothered to read all of that, and , I haven't heard of you.:cool:

loosecannon
05-19-2007, 12:20 PM
Not only NO, but HELL NO It is the only part of Bush's side I agree with. WE HAVE NO CHOICE. it is too late to do anything but grant them amnesty "IF" they follow simple instructions.



were they following simple instructions when they entered the US?

We do have a choice. It is never too late.

We either believe in nationalities and national borders or not. It can not happen both ways.

It would be as absurd as mailing Canadians IRS forms as it is to grant amnesty to 12-? million aliens at once.

Economically we will destroy our standard of living and create a much more stratified class system if we allow our borders to remain porous.

This IS the race to the bottom that globalists seek to cripple us with.

Doniston
05-19-2007, 12:31 PM
were they following simple instructions when they entered the US?

We do have a choice. It is never too late.

We either believe in nationalities and national borders or not. It can not happen both ways.

It would be as absurd as mailing Canadians IRS forms as it is to grant amnesty to 12-? million aliens at once.

Economically we will destroy our standard of living and create a much more stratified class system if we allow our borders to remain porous.

This IS the race to the bottom that globalists seek to cripple us with. What else can I say. I agree with you except that it is too little to late to do anything else.

-Cp
05-19-2007, 12:38 PM
What else can I say. I agree with you except that it is too little to late to do anything else.

No... it's NOT too late... every May 1st these Illegals gather in our streets for "May Day" - what a PERFECT opportunity to greet them with INS agents who can round them up and safely bus them back to Mexico....

Hobbit
05-19-2007, 01:16 PM
Better yet, have a huge crackdown on anybody who hires, rents, or otherwise facilitates the invasion. Find ways to cut off ALL welfare to these clowns, and get rid of the ridiculous rule that says an ER has to treat EVERYONE. If the injury isn't life-threatening, make them prove citizenship before they get treated on the taxpayer's dime. With no jobs and no welfare, they'll deport themselves.

In the meantime, we can just copy a direct, literal translation of the Mexican immigration laws directly onto our books and watch them try to call it racist and unfair.

Doniston
05-19-2007, 01:57 PM
No... it's NOT too late... every May 1st these Illegals gather in our streets for "May Day" - what a PERFECT opportunity to greet them with INS agents who can round them up and safely bus them back to Mexico.... Twelve million of them? not possible. for one million it would take 5000 buses

manu1959
05-19-2007, 01:59 PM
if we do this .... we will simply be purchasing a lower class

Doniston
05-19-2007, 02:00 PM
Better yet, have a huge crackdown on anybody who hires, rents, or otherwise facilitates the invasion. Find ways to cut off ALL welfare to these clowns, and get rid of the ridiculous rule that says an ER has to treat EVERYONE. If the injury isn't life-threatening, make them prove citizenship before they get treated on the taxpayer's dime. With no jobs and no welfare, they'll deport themselves.

In the meantime, we can just copy a direct, literal translation of the Mexican immigration laws directly onto our books and watch them try to call it racist and unfair. It would have helped, but the US would NEVER do that

loosecannon
05-19-2007, 02:12 PM
if we do this .... we will simply be purchasing a lower class

Exactly. Very Astute.

Pale Rider
05-19-2007, 02:50 PM
What else can I say. I agree with you except that it is too little to late to do anything else.

You really shouldn't say anything else, because it is NOT too late. America can do whatever it has the will to do. Kicking out the illegals is something we really NEED to do. If we give them amnesty, kiss America goodbye as you know it.

nevadamedic
05-19-2007, 02:55 PM
You really shouldn't say anything else, because it is NOT too late. America can do whatever it has the will to do. Kicking out the illegals is something we really NEED to do. If we give them amnesty, kiss America goodbye as you know it.

But if the Government does anything other then make them citizens they will be called racists and get protested with Mexican flags. IThats what I don't get. The come here to get away from Mexcio because it is such a horrible place and they would never go back, but the wave the flag of Mexico like it was the new American Flag........... Oh yea and bump that circus music.
:mad:

Doniston
05-19-2007, 03:56 PM
You really shouldn't say anything else, because it is NOT too late. America can do whatever it has the will to do. Kicking out the illegals is something we really NEED to do. If we give them amnesty, kiss America goodbye as you know it.Poor little tyke. You can't get away with insulting attitudes on the open board so you have to resort to Neg Reps. Just so you know. I don't give a rat's patooty what you think, and your attitude on the Cage, shows be just what sort of a person you are. You don't need to continue. you have already proved your ilk.

But I will still continue responding to you where you are civil in your posts. (sometimes I even agree with you.- and That's when I REALLY have to question whether I am right.)

nevadamedic
05-19-2007, 03:58 PM
Poorelittle tyke. You can't get away with insulting attitudes on the open board so you have to resirt to Neg Reps. Just so you know. I don't give a rat's patiity what you think, and your attitude on the Cage, shows be just what sort of a person you are. You don't need to continue. you have already proved your ilk.

But I will still continue responding to you where you are civil in your posts. (sometimes I even agree with you.- and That's when I REALLY have to question whether I am right.)

:pee:

Guernicaa
05-19-2007, 04:07 PM
No human being is illegal.

nevadamedic
05-19-2007, 04:10 PM
No human being is illegal.

Finally the peanut gallery chimes in.

CockySOB
05-19-2007, 04:11 PM
No human being is illegal.

But their residency in a particular locale certainly may be.

5stringJeff
05-19-2007, 04:35 PM
No human being is illegal.

Their existence on earth is not illegal. Their existence in America without citizenship or permission from the government is illegal.

-Cp
05-19-2007, 06:01 PM
Twelve million of them? not possible. for one million it would take 5000 buses

I'm pretty sure this country has more than 5000 busses in it...

Gaffer
05-19-2007, 06:58 PM
If we just enforce the laws against hiring them the jobs would dry up and they would go home on their own. The welfare crowd can be cut off as well and they will go home too.They could be cleared out easily in two years.

Dilloduck
05-19-2007, 07:04 PM
If we just enforce the laws against hiring them the jobs would dry up and they would go home on their own. The welfare crowd can be cut off as well and they will go home too.They could be cleared out easily in two years.

Here's the kicker I think. There are American who would go ballistic if they were asked to prove their citizenship or obtain any kind of ID that certified them. That's what we're up against.

Guernicaa
05-19-2007, 07:11 PM
I hope all of you realize that the majority of people picking Americas produce within 300 miles from the Mexican border are illegal immigrants...

Deporting all of them (like some idiots think we should do) would do more damage to America than letting them work here.

Farmers across the south west would be forced to shut down their farms as their entire labor force is shipped away. Millions of crops would rot and prices for food would sky rocket.

Conservatives believe that illegal’s are "hurting the economy" by being here. The truth of the matter is that our economy is an economy that as of right now depends on illegal immigrants. They are a group of cheap laborers filling the back breaking jobs that typical Americans (even the poor ones) won't do.

Dilloduck
05-19-2007, 07:22 PM
I hope all of you realize that the majority of people picking Americas produce within 300 miles from the Mexican border are illegal immigrants...

Deporting all of them (like some idiots think we should do) would do more damage to America than letting them work here.

Farmers across the south west would be forced to shut down their farms as their entire labor force is shipped away. Millions of crops would rot and prices for food would sky rocket.

Conservatives believe that illegal’s are "hurting the economy" by being here. The truth of the matter is that our economy is an economy that as of right now depends on illegal immigrants. They are a group of cheap laborers filling the back breaking jobs that typical Americans (even the poor ones) won't do.

Don't be a dumb ass-----It's a BI-partisan bill.

CockySOB
05-19-2007, 07:30 PM
I hope all of you realize that the majority of people picking Americas produce within 300 miles from the Mexican border are illegal immigrants...

Deporting all of them (like some idiots think we should do) would do more damage to America than letting them work here.

Farmers across the south west would be forced to shut down their farms as their entire labor force is shipped away. Millions of crops would rot and prices for food would sky rocket.

Conservatives believe that illegal’s are "hurting the economy" by being here. The truth of the matter is that our economy is an economy that as of right now depends on illegal immigrants. They are a group of cheap laborers filling the back breaking jobs that typical Americans (even the poor ones) won't do.

I disagree. Our economy would be just as fine, if not stronger, without the illegals at the lowest levels. Yes, Americans would do the jobs. Yes, the American workers would demand higher pay and possibly some benefits. And yes, the cost would be passed on to the consumer. And that is acceptable to me.

The idea that there are jobs Americans "won't" do is a myth. Most Americans might not WANT to do the kind of hard, physical labor associated with farming/harvesting, but that's because most have grown up with plenty. Opulence is not a right, although to listen to popular American culture today, you'd not know it.

Kathianne
05-19-2007, 07:34 PM
I hope all of you realize that the majority of people picking Americas produce within 300 miles from the Mexican border are illegal immigrants...

Deporting all of them (like some idiots think we should do) would do more damage to America than letting them work here.

Farmers across the south west would be forced to shut down their farms as their entire labor force is shipped away. Millions of crops would rot and prices for food would sky rocket.

Conservatives believe that illegal’s are "hurting the economy" by being here. The truth of the matter is that our economy is an economy that as of right now depends on illegal immigrants. They are a group of cheap laborers filling the back breaking jobs that typical Americans (even the poor ones) won't do.

How many is 'some'? Not many. Actually those against amnesty in general are asking only that the laws on the books be enforced. Unfortunately both parties do not want to do so, including the executives charged by the constitution with that duty.

Guernicaa
05-19-2007, 07:57 PM
Don't be a dumb ass-----It's a BI-partisan bill.
Thats cool...
Lots of things are bi...

Guernicaa
05-19-2007, 08:01 PM
I disagree. Our economy would be just as fine, if not stronger, without the illegals at the lowest levels. Yes, Americans would do the jobs. Yes, the American workers would demand higher pay and possibly some benefits. And yes, the cost would be passed on to the consumer. And that is acceptable to me.

The idea that there are jobs Americans "won't" do is a myth. Most Americans might not WANT to do the kind of hard, physical labor associated with farming/harvesting, but that's because most have grown up with plenty. Opulence is not a right, although to listen to popular American culture today, you'd not know it.

No, Americans would not do the jobs.
If Americans would do the jobs than produce farmers near the border wouldnt have to depend on illegals to do the work. Also, many towns and cities near the border don't have "Americans" in them...the percentages of illegals out numbers the amount of "Americans".

The cost that would go on to the consumer would be outrageous. Far too many Americans wouldn't be able to afford basic produce at the prices they would hike to if we deport a huge majority of the labor force back to Mexico.

Kathianne
05-19-2007, 08:02 PM
No, Americans would not do the jobs.
If Americans would do the jobs than produce farmers near the border wouldnt have to depend on illegals to do the work. Also, many towns and cities near the border don't have "Americans" in them...the percentages of illegals out numbers the amount of "Americans".

The cost that would go on to the consumer would be outrageous. Far too many Americans wouldn't be able to afford basic produce at the prices they would hike to if we deport a huge majority of the labor force back to Mexico.

Right, just like we've stopped unnecessary driving when it went about $3 a gallon. NOT.

Guernicaa
05-19-2007, 08:03 PM
How many is 'some'? Not many. Actually those against amnesty in general are asking only that the laws on the books be enforced. Unfortunately both parties do not want to do so, including the executives charged by the constitution with that duty.
The president did take some amount of action...and the problem has been slightly reduced. It is not as out of hand as it was, say, in 2004. There has been tighter control lately, and were cracking down harder on illegals now than we did during the Reagan era.

avatar4321
05-19-2007, 08:03 PM
No, Americans would not do the jobs.
If Americans would do the jobs than produce farmers near the border wouldnt have to depend on illegals to do the work. Also, many towns and cities near the border don't have "Americans" in them...the percentages of illegals out numbers the amount of "Americans".

The cost that would go on to the consumer would be outrageous. Far too many Americans wouldn't be able to afford basic produce at the prices they would hike to if we deport a huge majority of the labor force back to Mexico.

That's what you get for creating an artificial floor called the minimum wage and continually raising it.

Guernicaa
05-19-2007, 08:06 PM
Right, just like we've stopped unnecessary driving when it went about $3 a gallon. NOT.
lol...Um actually a lot people did.

I specifically remember all of my friends and family cutting out unnecessary driving last summer when gas prices were horrible.

And it depends on what you mean by "unnecessary"...
I wouldn't go on any summer drives in the country like I use too...and I rarely went all the way to the opposite end of the city unless I had to for a good reason.

Kathianne
05-19-2007, 08:07 PM
The president did take some amount of action...and the problem has been slightly reduced. It is not as out of hand as it was, say, in 2004. There has been tighter control lately, and were cracking down harder on illegals now than we did during the Reagan era.

You are a fuktard. You refuse to use the quote feature properly, so that others can understand who and what you are referring to. The only thing Bush did was celebrate the Democratic victory so he could force his amnesty plan through.

The only bow to the GOP is the enforcement in the past year or two, but I'm really unsure that is to the GOP or the on the ground, Minutemen Project.

-Cp
05-19-2007, 08:09 PM
No, Americans would not do the jobs..

:link: :link: :link:


If Americans would do the jobs than produce farmers near the border wouldnt have to depend on illegals to do the work. Also, many towns and cities near the border don't have "Americans" in them...the percentages of illegals out numbers the amount of "Americans"..

:link: :link: :link:

A core element of the American creed has always been a belief in the dignity of labor — at least until now. Supporters of a guest-worker program for Mexican laborers say that "there are jobs that no Americans will do." This is an argument that is a step away from suggesting that there are jobs that Americans shouldn't do.

President George Bush, a strong supporter of the guest-worker program, has long said that "family values don't stop at the Rio Grande." We are supposed to believe, however, that the work ethic does stop there — it is only south of it that people can be found who are willing to work in construction, landscaping and agricultural jobs. So, without importing those people into our labor market, these jobs would go unfilled, disrupting the economy (and creating an epidemic of unkempt lawns in Southern California).

This is sheer nonsense. According to a new survey by the Pew Hispanic Center, illegals make up 24 percent of workers in agriculture, 17 percent in cleaning, 14 percent in construction, and 12 percent in food production. So 86 percent of construction workers, for instance, are either legal immigrants or Americans, despite the fact that this is one of the alleged categories of untouchable jobs.

Oddly, the people who warn that without millions of cheap, unskilled Mexican laborers, this country would face economic disaster are pro-business libertarians. They believe in the power of the market to handle anything — except a slightly tighter labor market for unskilled workers. But the free market would inevitably adjust, with higher wages or technological innovation.

Take agriculture. Phillip Martin, an economist at the University of California, Davis, has demolished the argument that a crackdown on illegals would ruin it, or be a hardship to consumers. Most farming — livestock, grains, etc. — doesn't heavily rely on hired workers. Only about 20 percent of the farm sector does, chiefly those areas involving fresh fruit and vegetables.

The average "consumer unit" in the U.S. spends $7 a week on fresh fruit and vegetables, less than is spent on alcohol, according to Martin. On a $1 head of lettuce, the farm worker gets about 6 or 7 cents, roughly 1/15th of the retail price. Even a big run-up in the cost of labor can't hit the consumer very hard.

Martin recalls that the end of the bracero guest-worker program in the mid-1960s caused a one-year 40 percent wage increase for the United Farm Workers Union. A similar wage increase for legal farm workers today would work out to about a 10-dollar-a-year increase in the average family's bill for fruit and vegetables. Another thing happened with the end of the bracero program: The processed-tomato industry, which was heavily dependent on guest workers and was supposed to be devastated by their absence, learned how to mechanize and became more productive.

So the market will manage with fewer illegal aliens. In agriculture, Martin speculates that will mean technological innovation in some sectors (peaches), and perhaps a shifting to production abroad in others (strawberries). There is indeed a niche for low-skill labor in America. The question is simply whether it should be filled by illegal or temporary Mexicans workers, or instead by legal immigrants and Americans, who can command slightly higher wages. The guest-worker lobby prefers the former option.

If this debate is presented clearly, there is little doubt what most conservatives — and the public — would prefer. In his second term, President Bush has become a master of the reverse-wedge issue — hot-button issues that divide his political base and get it to feast on itself with charges of sexism, xenophobia and racism. The first was Harriet Miers; then there was the Dubai ports deal; and now comes his guest-worker proposal, making for a trifecta of political self-immolation.

There is still time for Bush to make an escape from this latest budding political disaster, but it has to begin with the affirmation that there are no jobs Americans won't do.

http://www.nationalreview.com/lowry/lowry200603140822.asp



The cost that would go on to the consumer would be outrageous. Far too many Americans wouldn't be able to afford basic produce at the prices they would hike to if we deport a huge majority of the labor force back to Mexico.

I'm pretty sure the money they'd save on Health Care - due to the fact that the illegals are BANKRUPTING the Medical Industry in effected areas - would more than help them buy produce..

Additionally, if you're so poor you can't afford produce you're most likely sucking off the teat of America called Welfare and Food Stamps would buy that produce...

Stop subjecting us to your Kool-aid and back up what you say with references...

5stringJeff
05-19-2007, 10:10 PM
I hope all of you realize that the majority of people picking Americas produce within 300 miles from the Mexican border are illegal immigrants...

Deporting all of them (like some idiots think we should do) would do more damage to America than letting them work here.

Farmers across the south west would be forced to shut down their farms as their entire labor force is shipped away. Millions of crops would rot and prices for food would sky rocket.

Conservatives believe that illegal’s are "hurting the economy" by being here. The truth of the matter is that our economy is an economy that as of right now depends on illegal immigrants. They are a group of cheap laborers filling the back breaking jobs that typical Americans (even the poor ones) won't do.

Since we would be able to deport all the illegals at once, this sudden loss of labor would never happen. And food in America is dirt cheap, if you didn't notice. How else do you explain all the fatasses running around?

loosecannon
05-19-2007, 10:23 PM
There is indeed a niche for low-skill labor in America. The question is simply whether it should be filled by illegal or temporary Mexicans workers, or instead by legal immigrants and Americans, who can command slightly higher wages. The guest-worker lobby prefers the former option.



An outstanding post

shattered
05-19-2007, 10:29 PM
Since we would be able to deport all the illegals at once, this sudden loss of labor would never happen. And food in America is dirt cheap, if you didn't notice. How else do you explain all the fatasses running around?

*Actual* food isn't dirt cheap. Junk food is dirt cheap. That's how I explain all the fatasses running around. :)

loosecannon
05-19-2007, 11:04 PM
*Actual* food isn't dirt cheap. Junk food is dirt cheap. That's how I explain all the fatasses running around. :)

Actual food IS dirt cheap, while actual junk food is waaaay expensive.

A pound of oats is what 50 cents. A pound of oat cereal is $2.00-$7.00.

A pound of potatoes is $59 cents, a pound of potato chips is $4.

A great freind of mine thinks we should give away raw food instead of food stamps.

It would cost a fraction the price and be far more nutritious.

nevadamedic
05-19-2007, 11:59 PM
If we just enforce the laws against hiring them the jobs would dry up and they would go home on their own. The welfare crowd can be cut off as well and they will go home too.They could be cleared out easily in two years.

They should be required to show citizenship to get on welfare or scholarships and if they dont have it, then they dont get them.

nevadamedic
05-20-2007, 12:00 AM
*Actual* food isn't dirt cheap. Junk food is dirt cheap. That's how I explain all the fatasses running around. :)

:laugh2:

CockySOB
05-20-2007, 07:51 AM
Actual food IS dirt cheap, while actual junk food is waaaay expensive.

A pound of oats is what 50 cents. A pound of oat cereal is $2.00-$7.00.

A pound of potatoes is $59 cents, a pound of potato chips is $4.

A great freind of mine thinks we should give away raw food instead of food stamps.

It would cost a fraction the price and be far more nutritious.

I gotta spread the rep around... yadda. yadda, yadda....

BTW, smart friend!

Doniston
05-20-2007, 11:40 AM
Actual food IS dirt cheap, while actual junk food is waaaay expensive.

A pound of oats is what 50 cents. A pound of oat cereal is $2.00-$7.00.

A pound of potatoes is $59 cents, a pound of potato chips is $4.

A great freind of mine thinks we should give away raw food instead of food stamps.

It would cost a fraction the price and be far more nutritious. Very much in agreement with this.