Law enforcement funding

[ConHog]

Dorothy , in THIS post

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?34893-America-s-True-History-of-Religious-Tolerance&p=539982#post539982

in another thread, you stated that you wanted your tax money to go to law enforcement, but not to prisons. Could you please explain the disparity in those statements?

Oh and you little children who would destroy yet another thread simply because you don't like Dorothy , please stay out; but I'd love to hear the take of others on this TOPIC.

[jimnyc]

*admittedly off topic 2nd post*

Dude, did you really just accuse others of being the reason threads get ruined? LOL :lol:

*Ok, have your fun with WS*

[ConHog]

*admittedly off topic 2nd post*

Dude, did you really just accuse others of being the reason threads get ruined? LOL :lol:

*Ok, have your fun with WS*



damn right I did. And you also know I say something when SHE is the reason a thread gets derailed . Oh and I know I'm guilty of it myself from time to time as well, so don't even try to play that game. :D

[jimnyc]

damn right I did. And you also know I say something when SHE is the reason a thread gets derailed . Oh and I know I'm guilty of it myself from time to time as well, so don't even try to play that game. :D

Btw - last time I called her out like this she ignored me, do don't hold your breath.

To be on topic - funding for both LE and prisons is necessary, and those who refuse to be a part of it should be forced to live amongst the prisoners let go due to lack of funding. :laugh:

[ConHog]

Btw - last time I called her out like this she ignored me, do don't hold your breath.

To be on topic - funding for both LE and prisons is necessary, and those who refuse to be a part of it should be forced to live amongst the prisoners let go due to lack of funding. :laugh:

I wouldn't go that far lol but I do agree with you that they go together . It just seems obvious that if you give LE more funding to catch criminals you are going to have more caught criminals.. Otherwise you need to reevaluate your funding altogether.

[DragonStryk72]

It's a question of values, isn't it? I don't want my taxes funding more and more prisons, wars that are unnecessary, pork barrel projects. I'd rather see my taxes go the the elderly, to the disabled, to poor families and schools to libraries, museums, roads and bridges, law enforcement.

Okay, so I snagged this from her post, which is the relevant point of the OP. Guess I'll tackle these one by one.

Prisons: Believe it or not, conservatives don't want these either. This is why we want more limited government, so that things that do not impede the personal liberties of another are not chucking people in jail who have no real reason to be there. However, reactionary mandatory minimums sentencing have tied the hands of judges, who many times are being forced to render a particular sentencing. I also believe that prisons need to change in a fundamental way, with more a focus on creating a community, as opposed to simply dumping people in cells. They could somewhat easily be made self-sustaining by putting the prisoners to work to aid their own prison, giving them an additional sense of personal accomplishment.

However, in defense of prisons, a lot of money now goes into things such as the library, getting healthier food and gym equipment, as well as rehabilitation programs for inmates, so that when they finish their time, they have a trade or craft they can use in the workforce.

Wars that are unnecessary: I'll definitely agree that Iraq was unnecessary, but Afghanistan had to happen, and because of us. There is no justifiable reason to whole-heartedly allow the abuse and rape of women in your country, nor to fund terror groups to attack the US. They had to go

Pork Barrel Projects: Again, conservatives don't want these, either. In truth, both sides are equally as guilty on this front, and they built the rules so that they never have to suffer for these things.

The elderly: We already have numerous projects for the elderly that are fund on taxes, both state and federal.

The disabled: Again, we have numerous programs and projects for the disabled on the state and federal levels.

Poor families: Being poor myself, i'm all for improving the lot of the poor in this country. However, the government is not the answer. The government, by and large, controls the value of the dollar, along with the cost of living, so when they spend extra money on the poor, it ends up devaluing the dollar. As an example, let's say we raise the minimum wage, here's what happens: Sure there's an initial bump in pay, but a month or two down the line, you get lay offs and cutbacks in hours. You also get a raise in the cost of living, which can leave the poor in an even worse state than they were before.

Schools: What schools need isn't tax money, really. We're pretty good about that, actually, although I would note we sort of punish efficiency in schools. If the school busts it out, and they come in under budget for a year, their budget gets cut, so we basically punishment for something that any company would reward an employee for. What we really need to do, IMO, is step off our administrators' and teachers' nuts and let them do what they spent years training to do. We also need to somewhat limit the power of the Teachers' Union, as that is starting to get out of control. Just somewhat, I'm all in favor of collective bargaining, but not when it becomes a billy club to use to gain unfair advantage, or keep bad teachers in their jobs.

Libraries: I admit, Libraries could use more help, but would be far better off with private donations than they would be with government assistance, which always ends up wasting a lot, and doesn't always put the money where it's needed. I, for instance, volunteer at my local branch of the Albany Public Library system. I took over cataloging and entering the various dvds, books, and music that people would drop off, since they didn't have the budget to retain someone for that purpose on staff.

Museums: Again, this seems to be an area that would benefit more from private donation than government help, since private donations can be targeted to specific purpose, as opposed to the strictures that government puts on the money. For instance, your average government owned computer, nothing special, costs about $3000. For the same money, I could walk into a best buy, and build a top of the line computer, and have the Geek Squad assemble it for me, but we have government contracts, so there's no real way around it.

Roads and Bridges: We do pretty well here, honestly. Not much more to say on that.

Law enforcement: Law Enforcement is doing well, but people really don't understand how law enforcement works. A cop stopping you while you're doing seriously outlandish things in their jurisdiction is just doing their job. If you're getting pulled over on a major drinking holiday, it's because they're trying to prevent deaths from drunk drivers. Going up and harassing the cops just to prove a point does nothing but slow down their response to actual crimes while they're dealing with your dumb ass.

Cops have minimums just as much as judges have them, and rules them must abide by in how they approach things. People seem to forget "Innocent until prove guilty" on a fairly convenient basis. In the instance of Zimmerman, there simply was not enough evidence to hold him at the time, and so they let him go. It's not up to them, they can't hold a guy that they don't have the evidence to hold, period. They can lose their place on the force. Cops also just don't like putting innocent people in jail, and generally do try to avoid doing it.

[Gaffer]

Only point I would make with Dragon is that prisons are self sufficient. In most states they have prison farms. Minimum security prisons where the inmates work the farm and supply the food needs of all the other prisons.

[ConHog]

Only point I would make with Dragon is that prisons are self sufficient. In most states they have prison farms. Minimum security prisons where the inmates work the farm and supply the food needs of all the other prisons.

I think we could both agree however that prison is too cushy as well. When did a library and color satelite tv, or even air conditioning become a "right?"

[Gaffer]

I think we could both agree however that prison is too cushy as well. When did a library and color satelite tv, or even air conditioning become a "right?"

In many cases the AC is necessary because of how the buildings are made. I don't think satellite tv is necessary, though libraries are a good thing. At least for those that can be rehabilitated. I don't think they should have excersize equipment either.

[ConHog]

In many cases the AC is necessary because of how the buildings are made. I don't think satellite tv is necessary, though libraries are a good thing. At least for those that can be rehabilitated. I don't think they should have excersize equipment either.

Why is AC necessary? We didn't have any AC in our house when I was growing up and let me tell you August in the Ozarks can be a bitch. And rehabilitation is a feel good fantasy. Either you want to follow the law or you don't.

[Gaffer]

Why is AC necessary? We didn't have any AC in our house when I was growing up and let me tell you August in the Ozarks can be a bitch. And rehabilitation is a feel good fantasy. Either you want to follow the law or you don't.

Because most of the prisons now days are enclosed with little or no ventilation. Like most office buildings. Windows in a prison are not practical. Rehab only works on those that are not hardcore criminals. Minimum and medium security types. Those that can be taught a trade and are not gang members. I've known a few.

[ConHog]

Because most of the prisons now days are enclosed with little or no ventilation. Like most office buildings. Windows in a prison are not practical. Rehab only works on those that are not hardcore criminals. Minimum and medium security types. Those that can be taught a trade and are not gang members. I've known a few.

Well I get both of your points and have solutions for both. BARRED windows are feasible. As for the ones who could be saved from a life of crime rather than those who we are merely punishing for a length of time until we release them to commit more crime create separate facilities. I for one think violent offenders should NEVER be allowed to mix with non violent offenders. It's just stupid.

[SassyLady]

Because most of the prisons now days are enclosed with little or no ventilation. Like most office buildings. Windows in a prison are not practical. Rehab only works on those that are not hardcore criminals. Minimum and medium security types. Those that can be taught a trade and are not gang members. I've known a few.

Put them outside like Sheriff Joe.

Tent City Jail, no A/C, no TV, Chain Gangs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1tfIKUZ0fY

[DragonStryk72]

I think we could both agree however that prison is too cushy as well. When did a library and color satelite tv, or even air conditioning become a "right?"

I don't think they should be rights, per se, but I do think that they could be earned by good behavior, and adding to the prison community. Some prisons are self-sustaining, but many are not, or they do some industry that is shipped off, instead of really working on true self-sufficiency.