Quote on Socialsim -

[darin]

“Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain.”

― Frédéric Bastiat, The Law
PERFECTLY said.

[Noir]

i don't get the 'religion' bit of the quote =/

[darin]

...okay, but do you get the point of the quote?

[Noir]

...okay, but do you get the point of the quote?

In general, but one of the three examples makes no sense.

[darin]

In general, but one of the three examples makes no sense.

I'll break it down for you:

When Free-Market types say "Reduce Spending on Social services" Today's liberals/socialists scream "You don't care about the needy!"

We Care - we believe the best way; most-efficent way of caring for our needy is through existing charities. We see "government program" and we immediately see "Inefficiency, corruption, sustainable-poverty-in-its-recipients"

If the three examples bother you, skip those and go straight to the point of the speaker.

[Wind Song]

Interesting. One right wing statement about socialism, (and you couldn't spell socialism correctly in the title), and we're supposed to do what with it?

Which tax funded social programs would you eliminate first? Libraries, schools, probation and parole, prisons, law enforcement, military, roads, bridges, social security, medicare, food stamps, WIC, school lunches?

Which government program is the most wasteful?

What programs and policies do you want our country to engage in?

[darin]

Interesting. One right wing statement about socialism, (and you couldn't spell socialism correctly in the title), and we're supposed to do what with it?

A right-wing statement from a French classical liberal theorist, from the 19th century?

You can't debate his comment - so you try to change the subject. You're an absolute WORTHLESS debater. Now, I'm not commenting on your PERSONHOOD; who you are, as a person. You have value and love and are loved I'm sure. But when you open your cake-hole and try to put-together a rational thought...wow. If you were a man-made machined you'd be a fail-bot.


Which tax funded social programs would you eliminate first? Libraries, schools, probation and parole, prisons, law enforcement, military, roads, bridges, social security, medicare, food stamps, WIC, school lunches?

Prisons, LE, Military, and infrastructure are not social programs.

I'd eliminate NEA, End social security (I'd tell people: "I know you've paid money into this system, but you won't have it. We'll end it now, and use current funds and other sources to pay for those currently ON SS; but from now on, you're on your own. Be responsible for your OWN retirement/future."), I'd end most public funding for schools; that is to say folks would pay to send their kids to school - or they wouldn't pay and their kids would stay home. Parents-Choice. I'd reform medicare, and privatize oversight.

Off the top of my head...

[Wind Song]

A right-wing statement from a French classical liberal theorist, from the 19th century?

You can't debate his comment - so you try to change the subject. You're an absolute WORTHLESS debater. Now, I'm not commenting on your PERSONHOOD; who you are, as a person. You have value and love and are loved I'm sure. But when you open your cake-hole and try to put-together a rational thought...wow. If you were a man-made machined you'd be a fail-bot.


Your language is disgusting.

[darin]

Your language is disgusting.

Even this part?
Now, I'm not commenting on your PERSONHOOD; who you are, as a person. You have value and love and are loved I'm sure.

You have NO debate skills. None. Whatsoever. I can HELP you, if you want. Thing is, I suspect you don't allow yourself FREE thought, either. The first one I can 'prove' by your posts here. The second one, I suspect, based on what you post.

[Wind Song]

Even this part?

You have NO debate skills. None. Whatsoever. I can HELP you, if you want. Thing is, I suspect you don't allow yourself FREE thought, either. The first one I can 'prove' by your posts here. The second one, I suspect, based on what you post.

Look, if you don't want to talk to me, then don't. I do not claim to be a good debater. I like to discuss politics. Am I welcome to do so at this forum or not?


Even this part?

You have NO debate skills. None. Whatsoever. I can HELP you, if you want. Thing is, I suspect you don't allow yourself FREE thought, either. The first one I can 'prove' by your posts here. The second one, I suspect, based on what you post.


I won't respond to your post when you use disgusting language.

[darin]

Yet...you...DID...reply.

I'm sorry the words:


You have value and love and are loved I'm sure.

are disgusting to you. Most libs ARE full of hate, so I understand it. Just sad.

[Wind Song]

Yet...you...DID...reply.

I'm sorry the words:



are disgusting to you. Most libs ARE full of hate, so I understand it. Just sad.

Those aren't the words that I found disgusting. Go back and read your own post.

If the post has disgusting words in it, I won't respond to it. I won't repeat the disgusting words either.

[darin]

Those aren't the words that I found disgusting. Go back and read your own post.

If the post has disgusting words in it, I won't respond to it. I won't repeat the disgusting words either.

aww...maybe next time you wear your BIG-GIRL panties? Poor kid. :(

This thread is EXACTLY in line with your modus operandi: You spout off, then play the victim and holier-than-thou when called on your crap. You are VERY good at one thing - topic drift.

Read this part: Next time I, or another staff determine you've derailed or trying to derail a thread you'll be removed from that thread immediately. If you can't go back to a certain thread, it'll be due to your efforts to change the f'ing topic.

[Wind Song]

The OP quote is full of erroneous generalizations. I don't see the point, since we don't have any socialists who post here on this forum.

You can take your contempt dump back. I'm not having it.

[darin]

The OP quote is full of erroneous generalizations. I don't see the point, since we don't have any socialists who post here on this forum.

You can take your contempt dump back. I'm not having it.

You're a socialist. Every modern liberal is a socialist. You and others trust the government to fix things. You hate folks who have things, or money - and wish to steal that money to put in a BIG pot where people like you can use that single-source of money to CONTROL the population. Others, like me, want the government to stop trying to:

"...make men virtuous or religious, or to preserve the fool from the consequences of his own folly. Government should be repressive no further than is necessary to secure liberty by protecting the equal rights of each from aggression on the part of others, and the moment governmental prohibitions extend beyond this line they are in danger of defeating the very ends they are intended to serve."

[Wind Song]

You're a socialist. Every modern liberal is a socialist. You and others trust the government to fix things. You hate folks who have things, or money - and wish to steal that money to put in a BIG pot where people like you can use that single-source of money to CONTROL the population. Others, like me, want the government to stop trying to:

"...make men virtuous or religious, or to preserve the fool from the consequences of his own folly. Government should be repressive no further than is necessary to secure liberty by protecting the equal rights of each from aggression on the part of others, and the moment governmental prohibitions extend beyond this line they are in danger of defeating the very ends they are intended to serve."


No. I'm NOT a socialist. I don't trust the government to fix every problem. I don't like government waste. I don't lust after other people's money. Your entire post is a lie. Not one bit of it represents my political position on government spending.

I'm not in the slightest bit interested in government limiting my freedom.

Your whole post is wrong, and it's a lie. It's not my view at all.

Hint: Try taking one of my actual statements and challenging that.

[tailfins]

No. I'm NOT a socialist. ......

Then why in Sam Hill (or Gus Hall as the case may be) are you using Communist Party USA sources to start a thread?

[Wind Song]

Then why in Sam Hill (or Gus Hall as the case may be) are you using Communist Party USA sources to start a thread?


I'm using an article written by a scholar.

[darin]

No. I'm NOT a socialist. I don't trust the government to fix every problem. I don't like government waste. I don't lust after other people's money. Your entire post is a lie. Not one bit of it represents my political position on government spending.

I'm not in the slightest bit interested in government limiting my freedom.

Your whole post is wrong, and it's a lie. It's not my view at all.

Hint: Try taking one of my actual statements and challenging that.

I posted a counter to your claims; you avoided mine and another before mine.

Your posts betray you as a socialist. I'm sorry if the term bothers you - YOU define yourself. You wanna go one-on-one debate about ANYTHING? I'm your huckleberry.

[Wind Song]

I posted a counter to your claims; you avoided mine and another before mine.

Your posts betray you as a socialist. I'm sorry if the term bothers you - YOU define yourself. You wanna go one-on-one debate about ANYTHING? I'm your huckleberry.


I'm not a socialist. That's just a label you want to lob on me. It's a lie. Why would I go one on one with a fucking liar who threatens to ban me over my views?

[darin]

I'm not a socialist. That's just a label you want to lob on me. It's a lie. Why would I go one on one with a fucking liar who threatens to ban me over my views?

Again, you're a lying piece of shit now. I never threatened to ban you over your views. I said I WANTED to ban you because you're anti-american, anti-freedom and anti-everything regarding Truth, Honor, and Liberty. I said, further, I would NOT do that.

That is NOT a threat - stop it. Here's a threat: If you DONT stop lying, you'll start racking up bans. I wont tolerate people lying about the staff here; myself included.

[Wind Song]

Again, you're a lying piece of shit now. I never threatened to ban you over your views. I said I WANTED to ban you because you're anti-american, anti-freedom and anti-everything regarding Truth, Honor, and Liberty. I said, further, I would NOT do that.

That is NOT a threat - stop it. Here's a threat: If you DONT stop lying, you'll start racking up bans. I wont tolerate people lying about the staff here; myself included.

You said you WANTED to ban me. Sounds like a threat to me. YOU are always throwing your mod weight around. You have a bad temper. You misuse your admin power when you're angry.

You called me a socialist. That's a fucking lie.

I'm not anti-american, anti-freedom or anti- truth honor or liberty. YOU ARE LYING.

You are a lousy debater. All you ever do is use ad hominem.

[darin]

You said you WANTED to ban me. Sounds like a threat to me. YOU are always throwing your mod weight around. You have a bad temper. You misuse your admin power when you're angry.

You called me a socialist. That's a fucking lie.

I'm not anti-american, anti-freedom or anti- truth honor or liberty.

You are a lousy debater. All you ever do is use ad hominem.

Lets go then, liar. One on One. NO links. NO quoting "experts" just debate. Pick a topic, loser.


Point to ONE instance of me 'throwing around my mod power' and I'll give you 5 straight rep Pluses.

You're a socialist, Miss "NiceSpeak".

[Thunderknuckles]

The only thing that seems to have changed since the 19 century is the level of hyperbole used in counterattacks.
Have a problem with the unsustainability of Medicare? You want to throw grandma over the cliff.
Don't like Obama's policies? You're a racist. Don't want to pay for another woman's birth control? You're engaged in a war in women's reproductive rights
On an on....

[Kathianne]

Lets go then, liar. One on One. NO links. NO quoting "experts" just debate. Pick a topic, loser.


Point to ONE instance of me 'throwing around my mod power' and I'll give you 5 straight rep Pluses.

You're a socialist, Miss "NiceSpeak".

Hmm, Sky 'leaves' again. Blames me. Now I find THIS! :laugh: No way was she going to play!

[Kathianne]

Speaking of topic related links:

http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2012/05/01/obamas-new-nomenklatura/?singlepage=true


Obama’s New Nomenklatura
Posted By Roger L Simon On May 1, 2012

Socialism is a rich man’s game.


Oh, sure, random overheated (sometimes impoverished) Occupiers agitate for their version of economic equality, possibly gumming up the works at the Lincoln Tunnel (http://cnsnews.com/blog/dan-gainor/occupy-promises-biggest-shut-down-city-new-york-has-ever-seen-blockade-san-fran) [2], but the real financial justice action comes from the wealthy – or so it would seem.


And I’m not just talking about Hollywood, where George Clooney is full steam ahead on a putative record-breaking (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303990604577369924085392742.html) [3] ten million dollar fundraiser for Barack Obama, or the laughably meretricious theatrics of the “Buffett Tax” that no one would pay anyway, but across the nation.


According to a book about to be released, The Rise of the President’s Permanent Campaign (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0700618600/pjmedia-20) [4] by Brendan J. Doherty, Obama has held more fundraisers than all presidents since Nixon combined. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2136851/Obama-held-fundraisers-previous-Presidents-combined-visits-key-swing-states-permanent-campaign.html?ito=feeds-newsxml) [5]
What does this have to do with socialism? A lot, really, because what Obama promises – especially in his second term — is a socialism of permanent elites, a kind of new, very American, version of the old Soviet-style nomenklatura. And those who are in it will get to stay in it (via government support) as social mobility, aka the American Dream, diminishes or disappears.


This was what socialism ultimately was all about, indeed is all about, the preservation of nomenklaturas, whether of Hollywood, the media, union, and bureaucratic leadership or what remains of selected industry. Keep hoi polloi out.


All those fundraisers and bundlers, from Clooney to the considerably more anonymous, know this on one level or another. It’s certainly not subtle and those too clueless to understand were reminded by the recent quasi-blacklisting of potential Romney supporters (http://times247.com/articles/team-obama-names-private-citizens-who-donated-to-romney-camp) [6]. A warning shot was fired. No elite status for them.


Being part of this new nomenklatura is particularly crucial in hard times and even more so in hard times that look to be long-lasting and possibly permanent (http://m.cnbc.com/id/47200513)..

[Wind Song]

Lets go then, liar. One on One. NO links. NO quoting "experts" just debate. Pick a topic, loser.


Point to ONE instance of me 'throwing around my mod power' and I'll give you 5 straight rep Pluses.

You're a socialist, Miss "NiceSpeak".

I'm not a socialist. Pick one socialist regime I've ever supported. I'm waiting.

[darin]

I'm not a socialist. Pick one socialist regime I've ever supported. I'm waiting.

The current regime.


You want me. I can tell.

[Wind Song]

The current regime.


You want me. I can tell.
We live a republic, a democracy with three working branches of government. This isn't socialism.

I want you? Hahahaha I want you to get the fuck lost!

[darin]

We live a republic, a democracy with three working branches of government. This isn't socialism.

Okay - but we have a Administrator in Chief who espouses to Socialist views. You support him; and his regime.


...I want you to...fuck

I knew it. :) I took out the fluff words, to help you get to the truth.

[jimnyc]

You want me. I can tell.


I want you? Hahahaha I want you to get the fuck lost!

I love it when people at odds start to get along with one another! I see a relationship flourishing here for sure! :lol::coffee:

[Kathianne]

Okay - but we have a Administrator in Chief who espouses to Socialist views. You support him; and his regime.



I knew it. :) I took out the fluff words, to help you get to the truth.

LOL! Stop that! :beer:

[Wind Song]

Okay - but we have a Administrator in Chief who espouses to Socialist views. You support him; and his regime.



I knew it. :) I took out the fluff words, to help you get to the truth.

President Obama isn't a socialist. He's a moderate Democrat. You're a liar. You call everyone whose views you don't like a socialist.

[darin]

President Obama isn't a socialist. He's a moderate Democrat. You're a liar. You call everyone whose views you don't like a socialist.

Is Jim a socialist? have I EVER called jimnyc a socialist? If not, there goes your statement. Cuz...he doesn't share my view on Football.


M-W defines socialism as "any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods."


(shrug) - in my view the evidence is OVERWHELMING; our CinC espouses socialism as a proper method of control/governance.

I know you want me bad. I know you're carrying a torch for me. I get it. I'm pretty sexy. I understand.

[Wind Song]

Is Jim a socialist? have I EVER called jimnyc a socialist? If not, there goes your statement. Cuz...he doesn't share my view on Football.




(shrug) - in my view the evidence is OVERWHELMING; our CinC espouses socialism as a proper method of control/governance.

I know you want me bad. I know you're carrying a torch for me. I get it. I'm pretty sexy. I understand.

Nope. No socialism going on in American government.

I'm carrying a torch for your puppy. She's very cute.

[darin]

Nope. No socialism going on in American government.

http://britegirl1.squarespace.com/storage/ostrich-burying-head.jpg


Not even Socialized Medicine? Buying GM and telling them how much they can pay their leaders, AND giving control to the Auto Unions? None of that sounds familiar?

And look, STOP flirting. I know you want my bod.

[Kathianne]

http://britegirl1.squarespace.com/storage/ostrich-burying-head.jpg


Not even Socialized Medicine? Buying GM and telling them how much they can pay their leaders, AND giving control to the Auto Unions? None of that sounds familiar?

And look, STOP flirting. I know you want my bod.


http://youtu.be/cWi182CMJY8

[Wind Song]

We don't need socialized medicine but we do need to reform our system. Most of my friends without health insurance go out of the country for health care. Even with the travel costs it's cheaper.

If you can't understand what's fucked up about that I can't help you.

We could use a more robust public health service. Prevention rather than the drain on the ER, would help.

[fj1200]

We don't need socialized medicine but we do need to reform our system. Most of my friends without health insurance go out of the country for health care. Even with the travel costs it's cheaper.

If you can't understand what's fucked up about that I can't help you.

We could use a more robust public health service. Prevention rather than the drain on the ER, would help.

If by reform you mean massive deregulation then you'd be right because that's why it's cheaper overseas. You can understand THAT can't you?

[fj1200]

I knew it. :) I took out the fluff words, to help you get to the truth.

:laugh: That's not right. Funny, but not right.

[Wind Song]

If by reform you mean massive deregulation then you'd be right because that's why it's cheaper overseas. You can understand THAT can't you?


Yes, I understand that. Most of my friends go to Asia or Mexico for health care. It's a booming industry in the third world.

[SassyLady]

We don't need socialized medicine but we do need to reform our system. Most of my friends without health insurance go out of the country for health care. Even with the travel costs it's cheaper.

If you can't understand what's fucked up about that I can't help you.

We could use a more robust public health service. Prevention rather than the drain on the ER, would help.

I agree with you that we don't need socialized medicine and that we need to reform our current system. And, I also agree that we should focus on preventative rather than reactive health care.

However, if this is what you believe, why do you think Obamacare is the answer?