Lee Marvin and Captain Kangaroo [Archive] - Debate Policy

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jimnyc

06-05-2012, 08:01 PM

Damn, I was tricked! Just got this in an email, only to find out that some of it is fake. Will add more at the bottom:

WHY DID MR. ROGERS WEAR A SWEATER?

Captain Kangaroo passed away on January 23, 2004 at age 76,
which is odd, because he always looked to be 76. (DOB: 6/27/27 )

His death reminded me of the following story.

Some people have been a bit offended that the actor, Lee Marvin,
is buried in a grave alongside 3 and 4-star generals at Arlington National Cemetery .
His marker gives his name, rank (PVT) and service (USMC).
Nothing else.

Here's a guy who was only a famous movie star who served his time,
why the heck does he rate burial with these guys?
Well, following is the amazing answer:

I always liked Lee Marvin, but didn't know the extent
of his Corps experiences.

In a time when many Hollywood stars served their country in the armed forces
often in rear echelon posts where they were carefully protected,
only to be trotted out to perform for the cameras in war bond promotions,
Lee Marvin was a genuine hero.
He won the Navy Cross at Iwo Jima .
There is only one higher Naval award... the Medal Of Honor!

If that is a surprising comment on the true character of the man,
he credits his sergeant with an even greater show of bravery.

Dialog from "The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson":
His guest was Lee Marvin...

Johnny said,"Lee, I'll bet a lot of people are unaware
that you were a Marine in the initial landing at Iwo Jima ..
and that during the course of that action you earned
the Navy Cross and were severely wounded."

"Yeah, yeah... I got shot square in the bottom and they gave me
the Cross for securing a hot spot about halfway up Suribachi.
Bad thing about getting shot up on a mountain is guys getting
shot hauling you down. But, Johnny, at Iwo , I served under
the bravest man I ever knew...
We both got the Cross the same day,
but what he did for his Cross made mine look cheap in comparison.

That dumb guy actually stood up on Red beach and directed his
troops to move forward and get the hell off the beach..
Bullets flying by, with mortar rounds landing everywhere and he
stood there as the main target of gunfire so that he could get his
men to safety.
He did this on more than one occasion because
his men's safety was more important than his own life.

That Sergeant and I have been lifelong friends.
When they brought me off Suribachi we passed the Sergeant and
he lit a smoke and passed it to me, lying on my belly on the litter and said,
"Where'd they get you Lee?"
"Well Bob....
if you make it home before me, tell Mom to sell the outhouse!"

Johnny, I'm not lying, Sergeant Keeshan was the bravest man
I ever knew.
The Sergeant's name is Bob Keeshan.
You and the world know him as Captain Kangaroo."

Lee Marvin

Marvin left school to join the United States Marine Corps, serving as a Scout Sniper in the 4th Marine Division.[8] He was wounded in action during the WWII Battle of Saipan, in the assault on Mount Tapochau, during which most of his company ("I" Company, 24th Marines, 4th Marine Division) were killed.[9] Marvin's wound (in the buttocks) was from machine gun fire, which severed his sciatic nerve.[10] He was awarded the Purple Heart and was given a medical discharge with the rank of Private First Class.[11] Contrary to rumors, Marvin did not serve with producer and actor Bob Keeshan during World War II.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Marvin

Bob Keeshan

After early graduation from Forest Hills High School in Queens, NY in 1945, during World War II, he enlisted in the United States Marine Corps Reserve, but was still in the United States when Japan surrendered. He attended Fordham University on the GI Bill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Keeshan

And another article I found:

The message says that Lee Marvin appeared on the Tonight Show in the 70's when host Johnny Carson brought up Marvin's record in the Marines. Carson said people may not have known that Marvin fought in Iwo Jima, one of the best known battles of World War II, and was awarded the Navy Cross. Marvin then tells a story of heroism in battle about the bravest man he ever knew who was also awarded the Navy Cross ... Bob Keeshan who later became best known as Captain Kangaroo.

We can't say for sure whether actor Lee Marvin ever related something like the story described to Johnny Carson on the Tonight Show (Marvin was a guest on the show seven times during Carson's tenure as host), but the details of the anecdote are undeniably false.

Lee Marvin did enlist in the U.S. Marines, saw action as Private First Class in the Pacific during World War II, and was wounded (in the buttocks) by fire which severed his sciatic nerve. However, this injury occurred during the battle for Saipan in June 1944, not the battle for Iwo Jima, which took place several months later, in February 1945. (Marvin also did receive a Purple Heart, and he is indeed buried at Arlington National Cemetery.)

Bob Keeshan, later famous as television's "Captain Kangaroo," also enlisted in the U.S. Marines, but too late to see any action during World War II. Keeshan was born on 27 June 1927 and enlisted two weeks before his 18th birthday, months too late to have taken part in the fighting at Iwo Jima. A 1997 interview with Keeshan noted that he "later enlisted in the U.S. Marines but saw no combat" because, as Keeshan said, he signed up "just before we dropped the atom bomb."

Finally, neither of these men served together and certainly neither of them earned the Navy Cross for bravery while serving in the Marine Corps.

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/lmarvin.htm

STILL a USMC Hero in my book!!!!

http://i46.tinypic.com/e9f7cw.jpg

jimnyc

06-05-2012, 08:03 PM

And don't ask me why one part references Captain Kangaroo and the other Mr. Rogers. I suppose the one who took some liberties with the facts also rushed and screwed up the names!

jimnyc

06-05-2012, 08:13 PM

And if interested, more from Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/military/celebrities/leemarvin.asp

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

06-05-2012, 09:19 PM

And if interested, more from Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/military/celebrities/leemarvin.asp

Lee Marvin was one of my favorite actors along with Glenn Ford, Robert Tayler, Steve McQueen , Paul Newman, Kirk Douglas, Charles Bronson, John Wayne, Gary Cooper , Randolph Scott, James Coburn , Audie Murphy(another war hero) Clayton Moore, Roy Rogers. All fine men but Roy Rogers takes it for best and most honorable man in that group. The guy was pure solid gold ...-Tyr

PostmodernProphet

06-05-2012, 10:40 PM

do generals get a spot with a better view?.......

gabosaurus

06-05-2012, 11:46 PM

Interesting how conservative Republicans profess their adulation for John Wayne in spite of the fact that he was gay.

jimnyc

06-06-2012, 10:02 AM

Interesting how conservative Republicans profess their adulation for John Wayne in spite of the fact that he was gay.

fact? How about posting some proof? The man was married like 3-4 times and had like 7 or more kids. He was known for fooling around with quite a few women as well. Or will this be another thread where you toss out absolute crap without bonafide facts and then just disappear?

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

06-06-2012, 10:12 AM

Interesting how conservative Republicans profess their adulation for John Wayne in spite of the fact that he was gay.

Got any more shat to spit out?
Go ahead so I can correct your foolishness in one long post rather than many small ones.
Yes, I listed John Wayne in my list of favorite actors. I liked the roles he played and how he played them.
He was about as gay as a three dollar bill is legal..
Now I did also list Randolph Scott which actually was gay.
Try to keep up ,ok?
You missed one and spat on an innocent man.. -Tyr

jimnyc

06-06-2012, 10:14 AM

Got any more shat to spit out?
Go ahead so I can correct your foolishness in one long post rather than many small ones.
Yes, I listed John Wayne in my list of favorite actors. I liked the roles he played and how he played them.
He was about as gay as a three dollar bill is legal..
Now I did also list Randolph Scott which actually was gay.
Try to keep up ,ok?
You missed one and spat on an innocent man.. -Tyr

Gabs can be cool at times, and other times she just tosses absolute shit out there and hopes it sticks. I have no clue where she gets some of this 'shit' from, but considering she is a Californian Liberal, and her history of tossing shit around, I generally want iron clad links coming from her.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

06-06-2012, 10:19 AM

jimnyc

06-21-2012, 12:42 PM

I thought for sure I would come back in here and find Gabby backing up one of her inane comments with absolute proof. I'm so very disappointed and surprised.

ConHog

06-21-2012, 12:49 PM

Got any more shat to spit out?
Go ahead so I can correct your foolishness in one long post rather than many small ones.
Yes, I listed John Wayne in my list of favorite actors. I liked the roles he played and how he played them.
He was about as gay as a three dollar bill is legal..
Now I did also list Randolph Scott which actually was gay.
Try to keep up ,ok?
You missed one and spat on an innocent man.. -Tyr

I'm confused as to what shit Gabby spat out here.

John Wayne gay? Check
You conservative? Check
You listed him as one of your favorites even though he's gay? Check

jimnyc

06-21-2012, 12:50 PM

John Wayne gay? Check

Proof?

ConHog

06-21-2012, 12:56 PM

Proof?

Marion's real life motto was "never leave your buddy's behind"

:lol:

He was gay and who cares? Doogie Howser is gay to, he's pretty solid in How I Met Your Mother though. Has nothing to do with his abilities, and THAT I think is where Gabby missed the point. Most folks who are "anti gay" don't have lists made of people they will never be entertained by because they are gay.

Truth we have no "proof" that he was gay, but it's a pretty widely accepted theory at minimum.

jimnyc

06-21-2012, 12:59 PM

Marion's real life motto was "never leave your buddy's behind"

:lol:

He was gay and who cares? Doogie Howser is gay to, he's pretty solid in How I Met Your Mother though. Has nothing to do with his abilities, and THAT I think is where Gabby missed the point. Most folks who are "anti gay" don't have lists made of people they will never be entertained by because they are gay.

Truth we have no "proof" that he was gay, but it's a pretty widely accepted theory at minimum.

No it's not, and he wasn't gay. He was married quite a few times and had 7 kids. If it's a theory, it's a "conspiracy theory", as there is absolutely no truth whatsoever to it and zero proof. And you pushing the rumor, with no proof at all of your own, is wrong, and in Gabby's department.

At minimum - NO PROOF at all, just people who like to start stupid rumors.

Kathianne

06-21-2012, 01:03 PM

No it's not, and he wasn't gay. He was married quite a few times and had 7 kids. If it's a theory, it's a "conspiracy theory", as there is absolutely no truth whatsoever to it and zero proof. And you pushing the rumor, with no proof at all of your own, is wrong, and in Gabby's department.

At minimum - NO PROOF at all, just people who like to start stupid rumors.

I have to agree. When this started I went looking for some 'proof' that JW was gay, couldn't find anything other than from pro-LBTG sites. Seems they needed someone like John Wayne.

jimnyc

06-21-2012, 01:05 PM

I have to agree. When this started I went looking for some 'proof' that JW was gay, couldn't find anything other than from pro-LBTG sites. Seems they needed someone like John Wayne.

I know people who lived and breathed JW and they never heard of it. Not a single person he was ever with came forward. Not a single person witnessed anything. In fact, other than people speaking about "rumors" of it, there is nothing. Just people who want to talk smack about someone who was revered by many, for his acting skills and persona.

ConHog

06-21-2012, 01:15 PM

No it's not, and he wasn't gay. He was married quite a few times and had 7 kids. If it's a theory, it's a "conspiracy theory", as there is absolutely no truth whatsoever to it and zero proof. And you pushing the rumor, with no proof at all of your own, is wrong, and in Gabby's department.

At minimum - NO PROOF at all, just people who like to start stupid rumors.

Yep, me and gabby invented a time machine so that we could travel back and start rumors that John Wayne was gay. :rolleyes:

ConHog

06-21-2012, 01:18 PM

fj1200

06-21-2012, 02:04 PM

I know people who lived and breathed JW and they never heard of it. Not a single person he was ever with came forward. Not a single person witnessed anything. In fact, other than people speaking about "rumors" of it, there is nothing. Just people who want to talk smack about someone who was revered by many, for his acting skills and persona.

I mean come on, who's next? John Travolta??? :rolleyes:

ConHog

06-21-2012, 02:08 PM

I know people who lived and breathed JW and they never heard of it. Not a single person he was ever with came forward. Not a single person witnessed anything. In fact, other than people speaking about "rumors" of it, there is nothing. Just people who want to talk smack about someone who was revered by many, for his acting skills and persona.

Oh come on, I love the Duke as much as anyone, but saying he had acting skills is a bit much. :laugh2:

What's next? Chuck Norris for an Oscar?

jimnyc

06-21-2012, 02:14 PM

ConHog

06-21-2012, 02:17 PM

So you jumped on ridiculous and false claims, Con, and now you're going to stick with them in the absence of any proof at all? Sorry, I'll deal in facts and you can play with theories and lies if you like.

So prove he was straight..............

Oh and if you come with links to women he slept with you KNOW I'm going to come back with links to men that the affirmed lesbian WS slept with, among others so careful what you wish for. :laugh:

Seriously, I've heard that rumor as long as I can remember and there is a lot of circumstantial evidence out there.

In the end though, I don't care. He didn't burn daylight, so I enjoyed his movies. :salute:

jimnyc

06-21-2012, 02:19 PM

So prove he was straight..............

Oh and if you come with links to women he slept with you KNOW I'm going to come back with links to men that the affirmed lesbian WS slept with, among others so careful what you wish for. :laugh:

Seriously, I've heard that rumor as long as I can remember and there is a lot of circumstantial evidence out there.

In the end though, I don't care. He didn't burn daylight, so I enjoyed his movies. :salute:

Prove he was straight when YOU claimed he was gay? Sorry, doesn't work that way. But perpetuating a baseless lie with no proof and getting caught, I suppose I would wander into fantasy land as well.

Shadow

06-21-2012, 02:30 PM

Thanks. A Cali-lib, say no more. I know exactly what you are speaking about.
Will take everything with a large grain of salt..
I have a great friend that is much the same and he lives in Cali too...--Tyr

Me too. Lived there. My ex step mother in law was a HUGE gay activist (her son (husbands step brother) played Cher in drag shows). Very interesting crew. Also interestingly enough... John Wayne had a house on the water in San Dimas (it was even part of boat tours of the area). My mother in law showed that house many times when it was on the market (being a realtor). Not once did she ever mention him being gay. First I've heard of that one...must be because I don't read lesbian blogs in my free time like Gabby does. :laugh:

jimnyc

06-21-2012, 02:31 PM

Seriously, I've heard that rumor as long as I can remember and there is a lot of circumstantial evidence out there.

Can you please post this evidence with links?

ConHog

06-21-2012, 02:34 PM

Prove he was straight when YOU claimed he was gay? Sorry, doesn't work that way. But perpetuating a baseless lie with no proof and getting caught, I suppose I would wander into fantasy land as well.

wait a minute here Jim.

So when someone says they are were born gay, you scream prove it, but when you claim someone was straight, you don't want to prove they are? Either we demand proof of every little claim or we don't harp on a few cases.

Truth is, you have no IDEA if he was gay or not, and neither do I, and it doesn't even matter. Except that for some odd reason you are frightened by the image of John Wayne making the sex with a dude.

jimnyc

06-21-2012, 02:37 PM

wait a minute here Jim.

So when someone says they are were born gay, you scream prove it, but when you claim someone was straight, you don't want to prove they are? Either we demand proof of every little claim or we don't harp on a few cases.

Truth is, you have no IDEA if he was gay or not, and neither do I, and it doesn't even matter. Except that for some odd reason you are frightened by the image of John Wayne making the sex with a dude.

Yes, someone makes a claim of being born gay, they should backup their claim. Someone claims JW was gay, they should backup what they claim. JW being gay wouldn't be a guess, NO ONE can make that claim without him admitting as much, or there being proof. You claim there is evidence. Post it.

jimnyc

06-21-2012, 02:38 PM

Except that for some odd reason you are frightened by the image of John Wayne making the sex with a dude.

And no, that doesn't bother me in the slightest. Someone making shit up, lying & perpetuating rumors without fact is what gets me.

ConHog

06-21-2012, 02:39 PM

Yes, someone makes a claim of being born gay, they should backup their claim. Someone claims JW was gay, they should backup what they claim. JW being gay wouldn't be a guess, NO ONE can make that claim without him admitting as much, or there being proof. You claim there is evidence. Post it.

Actually I said we had no proof. just some circumstantial evidence. You have threads where you're okay with believing circumstantial evidence, I have mine. This is one of mine. :lol:

jimnyc

06-21-2012, 02:43 PM

Actually I said we had no proof. just some circumstantial evidence. You have threads where you're okay with believing circumstantial evidence, I have mine. This is one of mine. :lol:

I hope you understand what circumstantial evidence is - please post it with links?

Kathianne

06-21-2012, 02:43 PM

Actually I said we had no proof. just some circumstantial evidence. You have threads where you're okay with believing circumstantial evidence, I have mine. This is one of mine. :lol:

Other than Gabby's saying it was so and links to pro-LGBT sites, what circumstantial evidence-I think previous you implied or said, 'lots' of circumstantial evidence?

jimnyc

06-21-2012, 02:44 PM

Other than Gabby's saying it was so and links to pro-LGBT sites, what circumstantial evidence-I think previous you implied or said, 'lots' of circumstantial evidence?

Same here, I'll be waiting for this LOTS of circumstantial evidence. I've read a TON on this and haven't found a single fact yet, and no evidence whatsoever that can be counted as circumstantial, just pure gossip crap from people that never knew him.

ConHog

06-21-2012, 02:47 PM

Same here, I'll be waiting for this LOTS of circumstantial evidence. I've read a TON on this and haven't found a single fact yet, and no evidence whatsoever that can be counted as circumstantial, just pure gossip crap from people that never knew him.

alright, look, I can't be ending every thread on this board by posting actual facts that those who disagree with me run from, but if you insist I'll find some research into the gay Marion later this evening.

jimnyc

06-21-2012, 02:49 PM

alright, look, I can't be ending every thread on this board by posting actual facts that those who disagree with me run from, but if you insist I'll find some research into the gay Marion later this evening.

Why is it always later? If there is TONS of circumstantial evidence, then surely you can post some of it now?

ConHog

06-21-2012, 02:50 PM

Why is it always later? If there is TONS of circumstantial evidence, then surely you can post some of it now?

Umm because I'm with my daughter right now and don't have time to do serious fact checking? Is that okay with you, or should I send her to her room so that daddy can prove a guy who's dead was gay to some people she doesn't even know? I mean seriously Jim.

Kathianne

06-21-2012, 02:51 PM

Why is it always later? If there is TONS of circumstantial evidence, then surely you can post some of it now?

LOL! We should call him, 'master of the facts, just later.'

Shadow

06-21-2012, 02:52 PM

LOL! We should call him, 'master of the facts, just later.'

He is on here all damn day and night...you would think it wouldn't be that hard. :rolleyes:

Kathianne

06-21-2012, 02:54 PM

He is on here all damn day and night...you would think it wouldn't be that hard. :rolleyes:

:laugh2: I'm at tle library, leaving here to go to work in a few minutes.

Shadow

06-21-2012, 02:56 PM

:laugh2: I'm at tle library, leaving here to go to work in a few minutes.

Well...have a good evening :)

Kathianne

06-21-2012, 02:57 PM

Well...have a good evening :)

I will. I'll try to get on after 11pm or so. Keep up the good fight.

jimnyc

06-21-2012, 03:00 PM

Umm because I'm with my daughter right now and don't have time to do serious fact checking? Is that okay with you, or should I send her to her room so that daddy can prove a guy who's dead was gay to some people she doesn't even know? I mean seriously Jim.

All this time in this thread, and others, but not enough time? Whatever. More like you don't have proof and you know it. Zilch. Nada. Nothing. You spoke out on something you know nothing about, and were questioned, and busted for tossing out things as fact when they weren't. :lol::coffee:

ConHog

06-21-2012, 03:02 PM

All this time in this thread, and others, but not enough time? Whatever. More like you don't have proof and you know it. Zilch. Nada. Nothing. You spoke out on something you know nothing about, and were questioned, and busted for tossing out things as fact when they weren't. :lol::coffee:

Jim, how many times do I have to type " I posted that we do not know for a fact" before you stop lying about what I said? I NEVER said we knew for a fact. The first time or two you say it, okay you just misread, but after being corrected 2 or 3 times, you're just flat lying about what I said.

Oh, and in fact no, I haven't googled "Proof that john wayne was gay" yet, but I will when I get a chance , rest assured lol

jimnyc

06-21-2012, 03:05 PM

Jim, how many times do I have to type " I posted that we do not know for a fact" before you stop lying about what I said? I NEVER said we knew for a fact. The first time or two you say it, okay you just misread, but after being corrected 2 or 3 times, you're just flat lying about what I said.

Oh, and in fact no, I haven't googled "Proof that john wayne was gay" yet, but I will when I get a chance , rest assured lol

You stated it as if it were a fact - "John Wayne was gay" is not stated as opinion. You further followed up those words with "Lots of circumstantial evidence". That's NOT lies. You're getting pissy because I'm calling you out on statements that you simply cannot backup.

ConHog

06-21-2012, 03:17 PM

You stated it as if it were a fact - "John Wayne was gay" is not stated as opinion. You further followed up those words with "Lots of circumstantial evidence". That's NOT lies. You're getting pissy because I'm calling you out on statements that you simply cannot backup.

I'm getting pissy ? Please. I'm just getting tired of stupidity. As if I'm the only one around here who posts stuff like "John wayne is gay" as an opinion without actually writing "in my opinion" yet once again you are picking and choosing to only make issue when certain people say it. We each and every fucking one of us do it Jim and it's getting old seeing some getting piled on and some nothing being said.

I stated NOTHING as fact. If I have a fact to post. I will post it and cite it, like I have in many other threads where facts were posted, sources were quoted and cited. Add to that the fact that I have multiple times posted "we don't know for a fact" in regards to this thread and that leaves to possible reasons why you are still claiming I claimed anything was a fact.

A) You're illiterate
B) You're being dishonest

Now based on our history together (short as it is) I believe you are literate. I also believe (and just for you this is my OPINION but one I'm willing to cite examples of you insist) is that you will intentionally misinterpret people's posts in order to keep from having to cede even one simple goddamned point in a debate.

You don't believe J Wayne was gay, I believe he was. Big god damned deal, who gives a shit if we agree on that or not. But to go on and on about how I'm claiming something is a fucking fact when I've wrote in the fucking thread that we don't fucking know the fucking facts is fucking childish.

jimnyc

06-21-2012, 03:25 PM

I'm getting pissy ? Please. I'm just getting tired of stupidity. As if I'm the only one around here who posts stuff like "John wayne is gay" as an opinion without actually writing "in my opinion" yet once again you are picking and choosing to only make issue when certain people say it. We each and every fucking one of us do it Jim and it's getting old seeing some getting piled on and some nothing being said.

I called out Gabby when she did the same. I simply asked you "proof?". I piled on when you refused to backup your claims or admit you were wrong.

I stated NOTHING as fact. If I have a fact to post. I will post it and cite it, like I have in many other threads where facts were posted, sources were quoted and cited. Add to that the fact that I have multiple times posted "we don't know for a fact" in regards to this thread and that leaves to possible reasons why you are still claiming I claimed anything was a fact.

You said JW was gay to try and make fun of Tyr. Even followed it up with "Check". Most people will generally clarify if they're posting an opinion, you simply stated JW was gay. And if only your opinion, odd that you followed up those comments with "there is lots of circumstantial evidence"

A) You're illiterate
B) You're being dishonest

Neither, just someone calling you out on your words, happens every day since I started USMB then DP.

Now based on our history together (short as it is) I believe you are literate. I also believe (and just for you this is my OPINION but one I'm willing to cite examples of you insist) is that you will intentionally misinterpret people's posts in order to keep from having to cede even one simple goddamned point in a debate.

I misinterpreted nothing. You said he was gay. Then you followed it up with "he was gay and who cares". Then you said there was evidence. Sorry, I misinterpreted nothing at all. It was quite clear what you were saying.

You don't believe J Wayne was gay, I believe he was. Big god damned deal, who gives a shit if we agree on that or not. But to go on and on about how I'm claiming something is a fucking fact when I've wrote in the fucking thread that we don't fucking know the fucking facts is fucking childish.

Childish? Then don't make claims that you have evidence. This is a DEBATE board, if you make outlandish claims, people WILL call you out on them. You're the only one being childish and acting like a victim of sorts, simply because I have asked you for proof of your comments. Kinda WS like to pull the victim routine instead of just debating or posting said facts.

ConHog

06-21-2012, 03:28 PM

I called out Gabby when she did the same. I simply asked you "proof?". I piled on when you refused to backup your claims or admit you were wrong.

You said JW was gay to try and make fun of Tyr. Even followed it up with "Check". Most people will generally clarify if they're posting an opinion, you simply stated JW was gay. And if only your opinion, odd that you followed up those comments with "there is lots of circumstantial evidence"

Neither, just someone calling you out on your words, happens every day since I started USMB then DP.

I misinterpreted nothing. You said he was gay. Then you followed it up with "he was gay and who cares". Then you said there was evidence. Sorry, I misinterpreted nothing at all. It was quite clear what you were saying.

Childish? Then don't make claims that you have evidence. This is a DEBATE board, if you make outlandish claims, people WILL call you out on them. You're the only one being childish and acting like a victim of sorts, simply because I have asked you for proof of your comments. Kinda WS like to pull the victim routine instead of just debating or posting said facts.

Jim and Kathy, may I go out and go swimming with my children? Is it okay with you if I post facts later? NO? tough shit.

You guys can have this thread.

jimnyc

06-21-2012, 03:30 PM

Jim and Kathy, may I go out and go swimming with my children? Is it okay with you if I post facts later? NO? tough shit.

You guys can have this thread.

In other words:

"I'm going to gracefully bow out so I don't have to backup my statements, even though I had ample time to post the circumstantial evidence".

logroller

06-21-2012, 03:34 PM

John Wayne smoked like 60 fags a day, one right after another. :laugh2:

ConHog

06-21-2012, 04:58 PM

aboutime

06-21-2012, 06:21 PM

Gabs can be cool at times, and other times she just tosses absolute shit out there and hopes it sticks. I have no clue where she gets some of this 'shit' from, but considering she is a Californian Liberal, and her history of tossing shit around, I generally want iron clad links coming from her.

As a 30 year veteran of the U.S. Navy. ANYONE....That is...ANYONE who served in Any Military branch for the United States is eligible to be buried in Arlington Cemetery.
The problem is. There is now LESS available space in Arlington for the burials to take place.
Family, and the Veteran's may request burial there. Not something many UNINFORMED civilians know. Which explains the complaints, and the BS we have just read above.
As for John Wayne being Gay.
Sounds like somebody is Jealous. Otherwise. Why would such a stupid thing be said in the first place.
On the other hand. Let's see the person who said it...provide proof if there is a desire to have any credibility here.

For your information:

<tbody>
<small style="font-size: 13px; ">Who can be buried in Arlington National Cemetery?</small>

<small style="font-size: 13px; ">Veteran
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<small style="font-size: 13px; ">Dear Veteran:</small>

<small style="font-size: 13px; ">With over 260,000 people interred there and over 5,400 new burials every year, Arlington (http://dir.yahoo.com/Regional/U_S__States/Virginia/Cities/Arlington/Travel_and_Transportation/Points_of_Interest/) is the second most-populated national cemetery in the United States and features one of the country's largest columbariums to house cremated remains. In each of the columbarium's four sections, there are 5,000 niches for remains, and the columbarium is expanding to house a total of 100,000 remains.According to the official Arlington National Cemetery (http://www.arlingtoncemetery.org/) site, any active-duty member of the U.S. armed forces or American veteran retired from active service is eligible for burial (http://www.arlingtoncemetery.org/funeral_information/guide.interment.html) there. Veterans who are retired from the reserves are eligible for burial in Arlington if they served in active duty, reached the age of 60, and drew retired pay.
Also, any former member of the armed forces who was discharged honorably for medical reasons and rated 30% disabled or more prior to October 1, 1949, can be buried in Arlington. Any former member of the armed forces who received one of these decorations is eligible: Medal of Honor, Distinguished Service Cross, Distinguished Service Medal, Silver Star, or Purple Heart. In addition, all former presidents of the U.S. are allowed an Arlington burial (only two are currently buried there -- William Taft and John F. Kennedy).
The spouses, minor children, and certain adult children of all those eligible may be buried at Arlington. Spouses of members of the armed forces who were buried at sea or missing in action are also eligible, along with those whose military spouse was buried in an U.S. military cemetery overseas.
The requirements for inurnment in the columbarium (http://www.arlingtoncemetery.org/funeral_information/guide.inurnment.html) at Arlington are slightly different. In addition to active duty service members and veterans, armed forces reservists and members of the Reserve Officers' Training Corps may be entombed in the columbarium if their death occurred under certain conditions. The columbarium is also open to U.S. citizens who served in the armed forces of an American ally during a war in which the U.S. took part. Certain commissioned officers of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and U.S. Public Health Service can be inurned in the columbarium.
Arlington does not make interment arrangements before death -- the next of kin must make arrangements at the time of need. Proof of eligibility (http://www.arlingtoncemetery.org/funeral_information/guide.eligibility.html#burden) is required, such as a discharge certificate. The cemetery recommends the next of kin contact the Department of Veterans Affairs (http://www.va.gov/) to secure necessary documents. A casualty assistance officer will usually help take care of the arrangements for active duty military personnel.
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Kathianne

06-21-2012, 11:11 PM

ConHog

06-21-2012, 11:15 PM

He found a Yahoo! Voices article, lol. Proof a plenty for the fact master. :rolleyes:

I never said proof o plenty. I said evidence. Just b/c you don't want to acknowledge that it is evidence doesn't lessen it's value. and I've seen far more tenuous proof accepted as proof on this and other boards.

The only ones claiming anything is a fact in this thread is a few of you claiming JW was absolutely , positively not gay for a fact. but oh , you can't prove that either.

Kathianne

06-21-2012, 11:19 PM

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?35426-Lee-Marvin-and-Captain-Kangaroo&p=559243#post559243

as I suggested earlier. PLENTY of circumstantial evidence...

ConHog

06-21-2012, 11:26 PM

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?35426-Lee-Marvin-and-Captain-Kangaroo&p=559243#post559243

circumstantial evidence =/= proof or fact and a school teacher absolutely knows that so that leads me to believe that you aren't debating you're just lashing out emotionally.

/ignore kath

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

06-21-2012, 11:30 PM

Why is it always later? If there is TONS of circumstantial evidence, then surely you can post some of it now?

I went thru this same argument about 5 years ago at another forum. Nobody ever posted any proof and there were 4 members swearing that JW was gay. After about 8 or 9 pages three of them admitted that it was just a rumor, the last really stupid guy never admitted it was just a rumor but did finally leave all in a huff saying he would post later with the evidence. He came back about 2 weeks later and never posted that thread again even though the thread stayed open and active with members posting admiration of JW etc.--Tyr

Kathianne

06-21-2012, 11:38 PM

I went thru this same argument about 5 years ago at another forum. Nobody ever posted any proof and there were 4 members swearing that JW was gay. After about 8 or 9 pages three of them admitted that it was just a rumor, the last really stupid guy never admitted it was just a rumor but did finally leave all in a huff saying he would post later with the evidence. He came back about 2 weeks later and never posted that thread again even though the thread stayed open and active with members posting admiration of JW etc.--Tyr

Yep, that's about the size of it. Truly not an important topic at all, certainly not worth getting all defensive about, IMO. I never cared for JW that much, really old. However, I don't like seeing anyone labeled something undeserved, whether or not it's negative, seems one's sexuality really isn't up for speculation unless one requests such.

Shadow

06-22-2012, 01:12 AM

http://voices.yahoo.com/was-john-wayne-gay-627804.html

as I suggested earlier. PLENTY of circumstantial evidence. The rumor has persisted for quite some time, and we just don't know for a fact either way.

So basically this 'plenty' of evidence boils down to...he had a female name...he did not approve of the gay life style...he had gay friends... and he had liberal views.

Even your damn article admits John Wayne being gay is just a 'rumor' see the following quote...

To date we still don't have any hard facts to persuade us one way or another on John Wayne's sexual preference. It will continue to remain a rumor

I just read several quotes from John Wayne's Biography related to his political views...homosexuality being 'disgusting' and 'perverted'...and him having an unconcious preference for Latin women...loving the idea of marital sex...but not the vulgarity of New Hollywood. He called his political views 'liberal' even though he was a political activist for the Republican Party. And was very well known for going against them openly (so... gee yeah...I can see why some would think he was a little liberal...it wasn't a big secret).

Quotes from fellow actors that he did not get along with...such as Kirk Douglas...who stated that he would 'work with anyone'...even those he did not like or agree with if he felt they were right for the part/job. Also states his best friend was Maureen O'hara and that yes...he was also friends with Rock Hudson.

I do know why the gay activists want to claim him though. Seems he had the nerve to speak out against homosexuality on NUMEROUS occassions. So, basically, even though he was quite clear on his views on homosexuality...the man MUST be gay anyway. What a crock of shit.:laugh:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000078/bio

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

06-22-2012, 08:40 AM

So basically this 'plenty' of evidence boils down to...he had a female name...he did not approve of the gay life style...he had gay friends... and he had liberal views.

Even your damn article admits John Wayne being gay is just a 'rumor' see the following quote...

I just read several quotes from John Wayne's Biography related to his political views...homosexuality being 'disgusting' and 'perverted'...and him having an unconcious preference for Latin women...loving the idea of marital sex...but not the vulgarity of New Hollywood. He called his political views 'liberal' even though he was a political activist for the Republican Party. And was very well known for going against them openly (so... gee yeah...I can see why some would think he was a little liberal...it wasn't a big secret).

Quotes from fellow actors that he did not get along with...such as Kirk Douglas...who stated that he would 'work with anyone'...even those he did not like or agree with if he felt they were right for the part/job. Also states his best friend was Maureen O'hara and that yes...he was also friends with Rock Hudson.

I do know why the gay activists want to claim him though. Seems he had the nerve to speak out against homosexuality on NUMEROUS occassions. So, basically, even though he was quite clear on his views on homosexuality...the man MUST be gay anyway. What a crock of shit.:laugh:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000078/bio

Nothing about his life points to his being gay except a RUMOR. Some people choose to believe that RUMOR for they dislike him so.

I was once declared to be God but despite my loud protests denouncing such absurdity the RUMOR persisted , by those that hated me! For years, years I tell you , I've been getting praying letters, emails, phone calls , etc asking me to cast down from the heavens a pox upon obama's head!--:laugh2:
If only I could!-:laugh::laugh:
Quick, somebody please start a RUMOR ABOUT TYR WINNING A ZILLION DOLLAR LOTTERY!
I want to see just how much mulla comes my way.;)--Tyr

jimnyc

06-22-2012, 10:11 AM

He found a Yahoo! Voices article, lol. Proof a plenty for the fact master. :rolleyes:

Isn't that grand? Yahoo voices is a part of the Yahoo contributor network - which means it's just a commentary from any 'ol person just like us. Not a single fact, proof, evidence or anything. Just someone rambling about retarded theories and such. It's actually worse than just voicing ones opinion here, as it's no more than taking the opinion of another and claiming it as evidence. Funny though! :lol:

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

06-22-2012, 10:28 AM

Isn't that grand? Yahoo voices is a part of the Yahoo contributor network - which means it's just a commentary from any 'ol person just like us. Not a single fact, proof, evidence or anything. Just someone rambling about retarded theories and such. It's actually worse than just voicing ones opinion here, as it's no more than taking the opinion of another and claiming it as evidence. Funny though! :lol:

I will myself happily take my own opinion over that of another unknown person posting on a blog somewhere in bumfak Egypt ! Certainly wouldnt offer another's opinion as fact. One may offer another's opinions to point to not standing alone in a viewpoint on a subject but pretending or declaring it to be fact is a big no/no in my book.--Tyr

Kathianne

06-22-2012, 10:40 AM

I will myself happily take my own opinion over that of another unknown person posting on a blog somewhere in bumfak Egypt ! Certainly wouldnt offer another's opinion as fact. One may offer another's opinions to point to not standing alone in a viewpoint on a subject but pretending or declaring it to be fact is a big no/no in my book.--Tyr

In fairness, he didn't claim it to be a fact. However, he did say that it demonstrated his claim to PLENTY of circumstantial evidence. It doesn't.

fj1200

06-22-2012, 11:03 AM

:deadhorse:

jimnyc

06-22-2012, 11:11 AM

:deadhorse:

Agreed, all these people claiming Wayne was gay, without an iota of proof or even circumstantial evidence, certainly are beating a dead horse.

SassyLady

06-22-2012, 07:24 PM

wait a minute here Jim.

So when someone says they are were born gay, you scream prove it, but when you claim someone was straight, you don't want to prove they are? Either we demand proof of every little claim or we don't harp on a few cases.

Truth is, you have no IDEA if he was gay or not, and neither do I, and it doesn't even matter. Except that for some odd reason you are frightened by the image of John Wayne making the sex with a dude.

I believe the preponderance of proof available will support JW as being straight.

ConHog

06-22-2012, 07:28 PM

I believe the preponderance of proof available will support JW as being straight.

The preponderance of the EVIDENCE would suggest he was , however there have long been rumors to the contrary with circumstantial evidence to back them up. That's all I said contrary to how overboard some went.

SassyLady

06-22-2012, 07:34 PM

The preponderance of the EVIDENCE would suggest he was , however there have long been rumors to the contrary with circumstantial evidence to back them up. That's all I said contrary to how overboard some went.

Sooooooo, some people choose to believe a rumor and others do not. I, myself, have never heard this rumor until Gabby, and then yourself, posted it here. Guess we don't hang out in the same crowds.

jimnyc

06-22-2012, 07:46 PM

I did various searches on the subject today. Always was a big John Wayne fan, so it wouldn't be so bad reading some more on him. I read out lot of weird stuff! Some were tame theories. But in it all, I saw no proof, or if you want to call it evidence, and a decent lawyer wouldn't even call any of it circumstantial evidence.

It's like the Glenn Beck rape thing that started in 1990 as a smear campaign of sorts, otherwise labeled as satire. Anyway, if you're interested in that - http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/glenn-beck-rape-murder-hoax

And that's exactly what is going on here, a group of people making a campaign against someone looked at as the model "Man's man". And just as with the Beck thing, there's no evidence/proof or evidence of any kind, other than the desire to jab at people. If he was gay, it would have been known for a long, long time now. You would think there would be more than simple rumors based on other rumors. And yet no one, anywhere, has ever produced crap - except producing the perpetuation of the rumor. Funny actually, it's like the chain letters I get in my email telling me about some sick kid who will die if I don't FW: the mail. They all have about the same amount of truth.

aboutime

06-22-2012, 08:34 PM

I never said proof o plenty. I said evidence. Just b/c you don't want to acknowledge that it is evidence doesn't lessen it's value. and I've seen far more tenuous proof accepted as proof on this and other boards.

The only ones claiming anything is a fact in this thread is a few of you claiming JW was absolutely , positively not gay for a fact. but oh , you can't prove that either.

We could, and should ask you ConHog. Since there is no way any of us can ask a DEAD MAN named John Wayne...(Marion) was his real first name.
We can do the next best thing, and ask YOU if the accusation about Wayne are true. Might they also be the same about you?
This is a good, fine way to end all of the Guesswork, and give the topic the attention that the author was obviously looking for with the accusation.
Wanna help us solve this, once, and for all?

Abbey Marie

06-23-2012, 02:29 PM

Abbey Marie

06-23-2012, 02:31 PM