Time to move to North Dakota?!!

[SassyLady]

Even if my mortgage was paid off, my property tax bill would be $700/month. I agree with the woman that says it would be nice to know that we wouldn't lose our home



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/12/us/north-dakota-voters-consider-ending-property-tax.html?hp



BISMARCK, N.D. — Since Californians shrank their property taxes more than three decades ago by passing Proposition 13, people around the nation have echoed their dismay over such levies, putting forth plans to even them, simplify them, cap them, slash them. In an election here on Tuesday, residents of North Dakota will consider a measure that reaches far beyond any of that — one that abolishes the property tax entirely.

“I would like to be able to know that my home, no matter what happens to my income or my life, is not going to be taken away from me because I can’t pay a tax,” said Susan Beehler, one in a group (http://empowerthetaxpayer.org/main/) of North Dakotans who have pressed for an amendment to the state’s Constitution to end the property tax. They argue that the tax is unpredictable, inconsistent, counter to the concept of property ownership and needless in a state that, thanks in part to wildly successful oil drilling, finds itself in the rare circumstance of carrying budget reserves.“When,” Ms. Beehler asked, “did we come to believe that government should get rich and we should get poor?”

[Voted4Reagan]

Even if my mortgage was paid off, my property tax bill would be $700/month. I agree with the woman that says it would be nice to know that we wouldn't lose our home

Would love to see it happen in NY State....

[fj1200]

Even if my mortgage was paid off, my property tax bill would be $700/month. I agree with the woman that says it would be nice to know that we wouldn't lose our home


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/12/us...ty-tax.html?hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/12/us/north-dakota-voters-consider-ending-property-tax.html?hp)


An unusual coalition of forces (http://keepitlocalnd.com/)
, including the North Dakota Chamber of Commerce and the state’s largest public employees’ unions, vehemently oppose the idea, arguing that such a ban would upend this quiet capital. Some big unanswered questions, the opponents say, include precisely how lawmakers would make up some $812 million in annual property tax revenue; what effect the change would have on hundreds of other state laws and regulations that allude to the more than century-old property tax; and what decisions would be left for North Dakota’s cities, counties and other governing boards if, say, they wanted to build a new school, hire more police, open a new park.

And what are the plans to make up any funding shortfalls?

[Kathianne]

And what are the plans to make up any funding shortfalls?

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=711


States Continue to Feel Recession’s Impact PDF of this report (13pp.) (http://www.cbpp.org/files/2-8-08sfp.pdf)
By Elizabeth McNichol (http://www.cbpp.org/experts/index.cfm?fa=view&id=28), Phil Oliff (http://www.cbpp.org/experts/index.cfm?fa=view&id=109) and Nicholas Johnson (http://www.cbpp.org/experts/index.cfm?fa=view&id=27)
Updated May 24, 2012

...Only two states, North Dakota and Montana, have not reported budget shortfalls in any of these years. One other state — Alaska—faced shortfalls in fiscal year 2010 but has not projected gaps for subsequent years. ...

[PostmodernProphet]

in Michigan we have a law that anyone over the age of 64 gets a refundable credit against their state income taxes for any local property taxes they pay......

[fj1200]

^^$800 million is ALL surprlus? Besides, they may be shooting themselves in the foot if they replace a stable revenue stream with something more volatile.

[revelarts]

And what are the plans to make up any funding shortfalls?

um... smaller gov"ts?

[fj1200]

um... smaller gov"ts?

They're already there.



The political mood here, too, leans toward Republicans (who dominate Bismarck), small government, little intrusion and fiscal conservatism.

[SassyLady]

And what are the plans to make up any funding shortfalls?

Article says they are having an oil boom.

[DragonStryk72]

And what are the plans to make up any funding shortfalls?

They don't have one, so they plan to just keep not having a shortfall.

[Thunderknuckles]

I don't know if I agree with abolishing the tax completely. They may have an oil boom now but long term this will not be the case. Modifying the tax law like we did in California may be more prudent.

Question for Sassy: Is your property tax based on yearly appraisal of property or is that $700 a constant?

[fj1200]

Article says they are having an oil boom.

Booms don't last forever. To make permanent policy based on one is short-term thinking.


They don't have one, so they plan to just keep not having a shortfall.

They don't have one WITH the property tax, or they will still not have one WITHOUT the property tax?



The notion, he said, that the state has enough surplus to replace property taxes for localities around the state without raising other taxes is false. For starters, he said, much of the state’s benefits from the oil boom are already dedicated legally to particular funds and cannot simply be transferred to support schools, counties, towns, park districts and the like.


I like lowering/eliminating taxes more than the next guy but this plan doesn't seem well thought out.

[SassyLady]

I don't know if I agree with abolishing the tax completely. They may have an oil boom now but long term this will not be the case. Modifying the tax law like we did in California may be more prudent.

Question for Sassy: Is your property tax based on yearly appraisal of property or is that $700 a constant?

Changes when there is a sale and I think when there is a refinance. It goes up in increments as additional laws are passed and funding is needed.

[DragonStryk72]

Booms don't last forever. To make permanent policy based on one is short-term thinking.



They don't have one WITH the property tax, or they will still not have one WITHOUT the property tax?



I like lowering/eliminating taxes more than the next guy but this plan doesn't seem well thought out.

What are the "particular funds"? As well, why can they not be transferred to pay for necessities?

[SassyLady]

Comment made from reader about property taxes.



Abolition of property ownership is one of the planks of the Communist Manifesto. When the government can charge you property taxes for services you don't necessarily need or want, doesn't allow you to solely contract with third parties over maintenance of those services independent of government interference, and can then confiscate your property at gunpoint if you dare try to opt out, then you do NOT own your property.

[fj1200]

What are the "particular funds"? As well, why can they not be transferred to pay for necessities?

I have no idea why they passed a law designating monies go to particular funds but the governor apparently does, I'll go with his word on it right now. Why are you so up in arms about a tax shift away from property owners to someone else? Because the article alludes to no plan to decrease state services.


Comment made from reader about property taxes.

:rolleyes: Marxism is NOT overtaking North Dakota.

[DragonStryk72]

I have no idea why they passed a law designating monies go to particular funds but the governor apparently does, I'll go with his word on it right now. Why are you so up in arms about a tax shift away from property owners to someone else? Because the article alludes to no plan to decrease state services.



:rolleyes: Marxism is NOT overtaking North Dakota.

Because "particular funds" is poltician speak 9/10 of the time for "Well see, there are these pet projects, and I really want to keep the money of them". Its needlessly vague. And those funds are going to the necessities, fj, they're going to these "particular funds". The whole point of dropping the property tax is because the state is posting multi-million dollar profits. Its like Reagan said, "Government will find a use for every dollar it makes."

So of course there are "particular funds", because instead of simply living within the means established, ND State government went ahead and decided to just spend more money.

[ConHog]

in Michigan we have a law that anyone over the age of 64 gets a refundable credit against their state income taxes for any local property taxes they pay......

Same in Arkansas. Sucked last year when I had to "officially" put the farm in my name since my grandfather had passed away. Property taxes are a biatch.

[Dilloduck]

The rent that you pay on land that you already own goes to pay for crap that the normal person wouldn't waste their money on.

[Dilloduck]

Same in Arkansas. Sucked last year when I had to "officially" put the farm in my name since my grandfather had passed away. Property taxes are a biatch.

Hell it's downright stealing.

[ConHog]

The rent that you pay on land that you already own goes to pay for crap that the normal person wouldn't waste their money on.

schools?

[Dilloduck]

schools?

Tenured teachers salaries ?

[Abbey Marie]

Tenured teachers salaries ?

Vice Chancellors for Diversity?

[DragonStryk72]

schools?

That's already been covered, apparently, and is not part of the "particular funds".

[ConHog]

Tenured teachers salaries ?

Not everything about school budgets is fun and games, but schools have to have SOME form of income. And yall want to do away with the DoE so that leaves local funding.

[fj1200]

Because "particular funds" is poltician speak 9/10 of the time for "Well see, there are these pet projects, and I really want to keep the money of them". Its needlessly vague. And those funds are going to the necessities, fj, they're going to these "particular funds". The whole point of dropping the property tax is because the state is posting multi-million dollar profits. Its like Reagan said, "Government will find a use for every dollar it makes."

So of course there are "particular funds", because instead of simply living within the means established, ND State government went ahead and decided to just spend more money.

That's all fine and good but lacking a bit unless you know what those funds are for. And we're talking about ND here which is very fiscally conservative based on the article and not CA or IL which are fiscal basket cases. Oh, and I don't think anyone has established that their "profits" are in excess of the property tax. And do you really think they should make a long-term decision based on a short-term boom?

[ConHog]

That's already been covered, apparently, and is not part of the "particular funds".

All I can speak to is Arkansas where property tax= school funding.

[Dilloduck]

And if you are a renter you don't have to pay it, right ?

[ConHog]

And if you are a renter you don't have to pay it, right ?

If you're a renter unless your landlord is stupid part of your rent goes to pay property tax, so yes you pay property tax. And in Arkansas anyway, vehicles also count as personal property.

[logroller]

If you're a renter unless your landlord is stupid part of your rent goes to pay property tax, so yes you pay property tax. And in Arkansas anyway, vehicles also count as personal property.

Cars are personal property; you mean they tax cars as real property, like land?

I see why ND is doing this though. Due to the influx of workers, income tax revenues are growing. Repealing the property tax encourages real investment in land and permanent development. The downside I foresee arising is an inflation of property values due to how the incentive to buy land acts as a quasi subsidy that, when job growth wanes or shrinks and tax revenue goes down, tax rates will need to be increased-- but where? If its property tax, th value of property will go down. If its income tax, employment will go down. In the short run, booms are great; but there's always an opportunity cost. But hey, it's their State. Be a good place to flip a few duplexes.

[ConHog]

Cars are personal property; you mean they tax cars as real property, like land?

I see why ND is doing this though. Due to the influx of workers, income tax revenues are growing. Repealing the property tax encourages real investment in land and permanent development. The downside I foresee arising is an inflation of property values due to how the incentive to buy land acts as a quasi subsidy that, when job growth wanes or shrinks and tax revenue goes down, tax rates will need to be increased-- but where? If its property tax, th value of property will go down. If its income tax, employment will go down. In the short run, booms are great; but there's always an opportunity cost. But hey, it's their State. Be a good place to flip a few duplexes.

Yes , I meant they count as personal property for personal property tax purposes.

[logroller]

Yes , I meant they count as personal property for personal property tax purposes.
That's bizarre; they tax personal property? Like they ask what you own and assess tax on it? In Cali we pay registration fees on cars; even planned no operation cost $10 (though that's good indefinitely until you register for onroad use) but taxing personal property, other than gifting, estate or inheritance, I haven't heard of that.

[ConHog]

That's bizarre; they tax personal property? Like they ask what you own and assess tax on it? In Cali we pay registration fees on cars; even planned no operation cost $10 (though that's good indefinitely until you register for onroad use) but taxing personal property, other than gifting, estate or inheritance, I haven't heard of that.


Just the way we do it I guess. How much is it to license a vehicle in Cali now? We pay $25 a year for the avg 5 year old vehicle.

[logroller]

Just the way we do it I guess. How much is it to license a vehicle in Cali now? We pay $25 a year for the avg 5 year old vehicle.
Bottoms out around a hundred for a passenger car. Trucks pay a commercial weight fee.

[ConHog]

Bottoms out around a hundred for a passenger car. Trucks pay a commercial weight fee.

well there is your difference, give or take. Personal property tax on a passenger car is between $20-100 dollars.

License fee on trucks is based on weight here to over a certain weight, and I don't remember what that weight is off the top off my head.

[Kathianne]

It looks like the voters are going to vote it down:

http://www.kare11.com/news/article/979274/396/North-Dakotans-vote-on-property-taxes-and-mascot


North Dakotans vote on property taxes and mascot 9:24 PM, Jun 12, 2012
...
In early election returns (http://results.sos.nd.gov/resultsSW.aspx?text=BQ&type=SW&map=CTY), it appeared the referendum to abolish property taxes failed by a wide margin, effectively leaving that form of taxation on the books.


The same voting results showed that North Dakotans were leaning towards allowing the university to drop "The Fighting Sioux" and switch to a less controversial mascot name.


Abolishing the Property Tax


The political group Empower the Taxpayers, succeeded in putting the issue on the ballot by collecting signatures from registered voters, as is allowed by North Dakota's election laws.


Charlene Nelson, who leads the organization, argued that North Dakota municipalities and school districts could survive the loss of $812 million in property tax revenue each year because the state is running a $5 billion budget surplus.


Much of that surplus is due to the state's red hot oil drilling boom, and Nelson reasoned the state should use that extra cash to provide to some tax relief to businesses and homeowners.
"The state has a $5 billion surplus," Nelson said during a debate on KLVY-TV in Fargo. "And I'm going to guess that most of the listeners, your viewers, don't even have $5,000 sitting in their savings account right now."

School employees, unions and other labor groups joined opponents to the idea, in arguing that total state funding of 2,100 local municipalities would result in loss of local control.


"Do we want our decisions to be made in Bismarck every two years, on how we should fix our roads, build schools, or what level of law enforcement we should have in my home town of Tioga?" Bob Harms, of Keep it Local ND, asserted in the same televised debate.


Property taxes are considered, by most, as the most reliable and stable form of taxation, although a constant source of frustrations by families facing tight household budgets.
"Most tax experts around the country believe it remains an essential cornerstone of local government finance," Mark Haveman of the non-partisan Minnesota Taxpayers Association told KARE.


"It works really well, despite how much dislike it creates." Haveman said property taxes have traditionally been viewed as the most sturdy leg in the "three-legged stool" of taxation, along with sales and income taxes.


"Given that revenue sources can be volatile, you don't want to rely on one particular revenue stream, because it that takes a nose dive you can find yourself in trouble," he explained...




I think the people are right to vote to keep property taxes. OTOH, perhaps the state could have the counties lower the rate, using some of the surplus to help in the short term. As someone mentioned, it might further spur on the real estate market there.

[avatar4321]

Honestly, if it wasnt for licensing issues (which really wouldnt be bad), the cold weather, and the fact that my wife would never agree, Id be more than happy to go out there. Start doing some transaction law and making myself alot of money.

[SassyLady]

I think senior citizens should be exempt from property tax. Let the government put a lien, interest and penalty free, on the property and collect the taxes if/or when it sells. That way the owner of the property doesn't have to worry that the government will come evict them from their property that they worked so hard to pay for. As I stated previously.....I've worked hard to pay off my mortgage so that when I retire I don't have to worry about losing my home. However, with the property tax going up each year, the tax bill is more than the original house payment.

I'm just not keen on the government taking my property that I've paid over $900K for, to satisfy a property tax bill that could be less than $10K. Ridiculous!

[DragonStryk72]

That's all fine and good but lacking a bit unless you know what those funds are for. And we're talking about ND here which is very fiscally conservative based on the article and not CA or IL which are fiscal basket cases. Oh, and I don't think anyone has established that their "profits" are in excess of the property tax. And do you really think they should make a long-term decision based on a short-term boom?

YOU don't know what those funds are for. Schools were already paid for, hence why it was called a "surplus", meaning they paid the bills, and went "Holy shit, we still have money!"

[logroller]

I think senior citizens should be exempt from property tax. Let the government put a lien, interest and penalty free, on the property and collect the taxes if/or when it sells. That way the owner of the property doesn't have to worry that the government will come evict them from their property that they worked so hard to pay for. As I stated previously.....I've worked hard to pay off my mortgage so that when I retire I don't have to worry about losing my home. However, with the property tax going up each year, the tax bill is more than the original house payment.

I'm just not keen on the government taking my property that I've paid over $900K for, to satisfy a property tax bill that could be less than $10K. Ridiculous!
Either you've some sweet property or had a shitty interest rate-- maybe both. But you could use that land to farm or rent rooms to cover the tax; that or start a church or some other public benefit corp. A flat tax on goods is a far more equitable form of taxation. Maybe someday...

[Kathianne]

I think senior citizens should be exempt from property tax. Let the government put a lien, interest and penalty free, on the property and collect the taxes if/or when it sells. That way the owner of the property doesn't have to worry that the government will come evict them from their property that they worked so hard to pay for. As I stated previously.....I've worked hard to pay off my mortgage so that when I retire I don't have to worry about losing my home. However, with the property tax going up each year, the tax bill is more than the original house payment.

I'm just not keen on the government taking my property that I've paid over $900K for, to satisfy a property tax bill that could be less than $10K. Ridiculous!

I understand where you are coming from, but one must keep in mind that there are many, many senior citizens with pensions that are far in excess of many young families income.

[ConHog]

I think senior citizens should be exempt from property tax. Let the government put a lien, interest and penalty free, on the property and collect the taxes if/or when it sells. That way the owner of the property doesn't have to worry that the government will come evict them from their property that they worked so hard to pay for. As I stated previously.....I've worked hard to pay off my mortgage so that when I retire I don't have to worry about losing my home. However, with the property tax going up each year, the tax bill is more than the original house payment.

I'm just not keen on the government taking my property that I've paid over $900K for, to satisfy a property tax bill that could be less than $10K. Ridiculous!

Oh great its the beginning of occupy property tax :D

[ConHog]

I understand where you are coming from, but one must keep in mind that there are many, many senior citizens with pensions that are far in excess of many young families income.

True enough. But on the otber hand the young families typically get more use of the services provided by property taxed IE schools then the retirees do

[SassyLady]

Either you've some sweet property or had a shitty interest rate-- maybe both. But you could use that land to farm or rent rooms to cover the tax; that or start a church or some other public benefit corp. A flat tax on goods is a far more equitable form of taxation. Maybe someday...

It was a hypothetical situation ... meaning that at some point in time I will have paid $900K (principal and interest) and when it's paid off there is a chance that the government could take it away to settle an unpaid property tax bill that could be less than $10K. Maybe I'm way off base thinking this could happen, but don't think so.

BTW ... my property is sweet ... 2 acres in middle of wine country with 2400 sq. ft. house, rental cottage, barn, entertainment pavillion and an acre that can be planted in wine grapes or used for some other endeavor. It's worth about $800-900K at this time ... down from a few years ago. We purchased the land over 20 years ago for $100K and have put lots of sweat equity into it. Interest rate isn't bad either .... 4.75%.

As for using the property to cover the tax ... yes, Log, I could radically change my lifestyle in my twilight years to appease the tax man.

[ConHog]

It was a hypothetical situation ... meaning that at some point in time I will have paid $900K (principal and interest) and when it's paid off there is a chance that the government could take it away to settle an unpaid property tax bill that could be less than $10K. Maybe I'm way off base thinking this could happen, but don't think so.

BTW ... my property is sweet ... 2 acres in middle of wine country with 2400 sq. ft. house, rental cottage, barn, entertainment pavillion and an acre that can be planted in wine grapes or used for some other endeavor. It's worth about $800-900K at this time ... down from a few years ago. We purchased the land over 20 years ago for $100K and have put lots of sweat equity into it. Interest rate isn't bad either .... 4.75%.

As for using the property to cover the tax ... yes, Log, I could radically change my lifestyle in my twilight years to appease the tax man.


Reverse mortgage ans spend the equity.

[logroller]

It was a hypothetical situation ... meaning that at some point in time I will have paid $900K (principal and interest) and when it's paid off there is a chance that the government could take it away to settle an unpaid property tax bill that could be less than $10K. Maybe I'm way off base thinking this could happen, but don't think so.

BTW ... my property is sweet ... 2 acres in middle of wine country with 2400 sq. ft. house, rental cottage, barn, entertainment pavillion and an acre that can be planted in wine grapes or used for some other endeavor. It's worth about $800-900K at this time ... down from a few years ago. We purchased the land over 20 years ago for $100K and have put lots of sweat equity into it. Interest rate isn't bad either .... 4.75%.

As for using the property to cover the tax ... yes, Log, I could radically change my lifestyle in my twilight years to appease the tax man.
Hey start propagating those succulents; that's not too radical. I'll buy a few.:thumb: Plus, by starting a business you could deduct part of the property as a business expense. So even if you dont make money, You can deduct the regular expenses already a part of your lifestyle. BTW, ive been audited; I was more than happy to appease the tax man. I've actually had very pleasant experiences with federal agents.

[fj1200]

YOU don't know what those funds are for. Schools were already paid for, hence why it was called a "surplus", meaning they paid the bills, and went "Holy shit, we still have money!"

And I never said I did. I also think this is a completely valid argument:

School employees, unions and other labor groups joined opponents to the idea, in arguing that total state funding of 2,100 local municipalities would result in loss of local control.

"Do we want our decisions to be made in Bismarck every two years, on how we should fix our roads, build schools, or what level of law enforcement we should have in my home town of Tioga?" Bob Harms, of Keep it Local ND, asserted in the same televised debate.
Local control is a key to decentralization as most conservatives argue for decisions to be made local right? Are you OK with long-term changes being made by a short-term boom?

[SassyLady]

Hey start propagating those succulents; that's not too radical. I'll buy a few.:thumb: Plus, by starting a business you could deduct part of the property as a business expense. So even if you dont make money, You can deduct the regular expenses already a part of your lifestyle. BTW, ive been audited; I was more than happy to appease the tax man. I've actually had very pleasant experiences with federal agents.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to logroller again.

Those succulents are propagating mighty fine and would love to see you come up and browse around and choose a couple. I'll even rent out my second master to you and wife so you can stay a few extra days and do some wine tasting!!!

[SassyLady]

And I never said I did. I also think this is a completely valid argument:

Local control is a key to decentralization as most conservatives argue for decisions to be made local right? Are you OK with long-term changes being made by a short-term boom?

FJ ...I haven't researched the oil boom up there but what makes you think it's a short-term boom. From what I've heard, and it might be wrong, but I thought the oil field was quite large. What's the projection for how many years, barrels of oil, will come out of there?

[Gaffer]

FJ ...I haven't researched the oil boom up there but what makes you think it's a short-term boom. From what I've heard, and it might be wrong, but I thought the oil field was quite large. What's the projection for how many years, barrels of oil, will come out of there?

I read a few days ago that the oil in ND exceeds saudi arabia. So it's not a flash in the pan oil boom. Of course the epa is rushing to close them down. But seems to me property taxes would not be needed there for quite some time.

[SassyLady]

I read a few days ago that the oil in ND exceeds saudi arabia. So it's not a flash in the pan oil boom. Of course the epa is rushing to close them down. But seems to me property taxes would not be needed there for quite some time.

That is what I heard also....and agree with property taxes not being needed. However, once the government has a program going it will find a way to spend the money rather than let the people who earned it keep it.

[Kathianne]

And I never said I did. I also think this is a completely valid argument:

Local control is a key to decentralization as most conservatives argue for decisions to be made local right? Are you OK with long-term changes being made by a short-term boom?

Seems those conservatives in ND agreed with you. They don't want the state involved in day-to-day decisions:

http://www.devilslakejournal.com/newsnow/x465798516/ND-voters-reject-ending-local-property-taxes


Devils Lake, ND —
BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) — North Dakota voters on Tuesday resoundingly defeated a proposal that would have made the state the first in the nation to abolish local property taxes.

Unofficial returns showed voters rejecting the constitutional amendment by well over 70 percent. Under the proposal, property taxes would have been eliminated and the Legislature ordered to supply replacement revenue to the local governments that depend on them. The state Tax Department estimated the needed sum would be more than $800 million annually....

[SassyLady]

Seems those conservatives in ND agreed with you. They don't want the state involved in day-to-day decisions:

http://www.devilslakejournal.com/newsnow/x465798516/ND-voters-reject-ending-local-property-taxes

I wonder what they are going to do with all the money from the oil boom if they are still going to be bringing in the same amount from property taxes as before. Weren't they solvent prior to this?

[ConHog]

I wonder what they are going to do with all the money from the oil boom if they are still going to be bringing in the same amount from property taxes as before. Weren't they solvent prior to this?

Prolly give it to CA :D

[SassyLady]

Prolly give it to CA :D

Funny ... but if money is going to be squandered (which CA would do) then might as well be squandered by ND.

[Kathianne]

I wonder what they are going to do with all the money from the oil boom if they are still going to be bringing in the same amount from property taxes as before. Weren't they solvent prior to this?

They have a major surplus already, which is why this proposal managed to make the ballot. On the other hand, there are real boom areas out there, so they are going to need infrastructure for sure. Wish there were more states in that condition. ND is one of the states on my list for applying once I'm out of the house.

[SassyLady]

They have a major surplus already, which is why this proposal managed to make the ballot. On the other hand, there are real boom areas out there, so they are going to need infrastructure for sure. Wish there were more states in that condition. ND is one of the states on my list for applying once I'm out of the house.

Good luck!

[Kathianne]

Good luck!

Yeah, think I'd be doing a lot of Eddie Bauer. LOL!

[ConHog]

Yeah, think I'd be doing a lot of Eddie Bauer. LOL!

My dad's friend had a daughter who recently moved to ND and I was like WTF? Turns out ND is new Silicone Valley with projects like this


http://seekingalpha.com/article/202665-google-invests-in-wind-farms-is-the-midwest-the-new-silicon-valley

as technology companies are moving from CA......

Too cold for me though.

[SassyLady]

Yeah, think I'd be doing a lot of Eddie Bauer. LOL!

Yeah ... I know, huh!? I'm in Arizona ... fresh from Northern CA and humidity is 5% and I'm having a hard time adjusting....can only take off so many clothes before people start giving me sideways looks! ;)

[ConHog]

Yeah ... I know, huh!? I'm in Arizona ... fresh from Northern CA and humidity is 5% and I'm having a hard time adjusting....can only take off so many clothes before people start giving me sideways looks! ;)

I have grand parents in Vegas , I go visit them once a year. The humidity is pretty much non existnt there compared to here where it can be anywhere from 70-90% on most days. I about die when it's 130 out there with no humidity, anyone who says a dry heat isn't as hot is NUTS.

[CSM]

I have grand parents in Vegas , I go visit them once a year. The humidity is pretty much non existnt there compared to here where it can be anywhere from 70-90% on most days. I about die when it's 130 out there with no humidity, anyone who says a dry heat isn't as hot is NUTS.

Dry heat ... isn't that how you cook a turkey?

[fj1200]

FJ ...I haven't researched the oil boom up there but what makes you think it's a short-term boom. From what I've heard, and it might be wrong, but I thought the oil field was quite large. What's the projection for how many years, barrels of oil, will come out of there?

"Short-term" is pretty much the definition of boom. :poke: There are plenty of reasons why this was a bad proposal, pointed out in the articles btw, but legislation by proposition is not a very good one in my mind, I don't recall it working out too well in CA IIRC.


I read a few days ago that the oil in ND exceeds saudi arabia. So it's not a flash in the pan oil boom. Of course the epa is rushing to close them down. But seems to me property taxes would not be needed there for quite some time.

I don't think the size comparable to SA is in question, what is the question is how much it costs to remove a barrel from ND vs. SA. It's far higher in ND and if the price per barrel dropped below $80, or whatever the cost is, then the boom would quickly evaporate. Also, no one has defended the inherent tax shift that would occur due to this proposal. I could think of far better ways to streamline taxation and eliminating local control would not be one of them.

[PostmodernProphet]

I missed it, did the UND become the home of the Never Harmed A Living Soul Sioux or not......

[Thunderknuckles]

It's all moot. It appears the voters overwhelmingly turned it down.